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Japan's Latest Rockstar Is a 3D Hologram

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the as-real-as-it-gets dept.

Music 305

kkleiner writes "Hatsune Miku is a Japanese pop diva who's just started to play massive stadium concerts to sold out crowds. Her hair is blue, she dresses like Sailor Moon, and she'll only appear in concerts via a 3D 'hologram.' Oh, and did I forget to mention that she's completely fictional? Created by Crypton Future Media, Hatsune Miku and her virtual colleagues have gone on limited tours in Japan."

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This isn't exactly news... (5, Informative)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970554)

Erm... yes, that's great and all. Except Hatsune Miku has been around since 2007, and versons of the the Vocaloid software that powers "her" has been around a good bit longer (since 2004 or so, I think). I'm pretty sure I heard reference to special-effects-heavy concerts more than a year ago.

The software can be used, with a lot of practice, to do reasonably convincing versions of Japanese language songs. Attempts to use the Hatsune Miku vocaloid to do anything in English are usually hilariously awful. Fans of the game portal may be amused to note this rendition of the game's famous closing song... erm... Steal A Lamp [youtube.com] .

In fairness, there are Vocaloids which can handle English much better, but this story seemed to be specifically about Hatsune Miku.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970582)

In addition, the concert was months, if not a year ago. I recall getting my dvd about it months ago.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971152)

The original concert took place on March 9th. This comes out to 3/9, which, if you creatively pronounce it in Japanese, becomes "mi ku". The concert seems to me to be more of a Sega thing than a Crypton event, since the models they used were originally from the production of the PS3 rhythm game. Sitting in the audience was basically the closest you could've gotten to a Sharon Apple experience (sans glitching advanced strike craft).

Re:This isn't exactly news... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970644)

This looks like more than just a voice. It's a fscking hologram. Douche.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (2, Informative)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970652)

Except as I said in my post, the concerts themselves, with all the special effects, have been going for over a year. I know it's a hassle, but do try to read before clicking "reply".

Re:This isn't exactly news... (2, Informative)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970694)

Except as I said in my post, the concerts themselves, with all the special effects, have been going for over a year. I know it's a hassle, but do try to read before clicking "reply".

Actually, you mentioned "special-effects-heavy concerts". Which could describe anything, including Kiss, Gwar, Ramstein...

Yes, Slashdot is LTTP, very much so, but... Well. Yeah. PIE. It's still neat to see the tech reaching this level. Didn't Japan predict this years ago with some mecha anime? And is this on Kurzweil's list of predictions?

Here's my favorite Vocaloid video. Just in time for Halloween:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RFcrreoE8 [youtube.com]

Re:This isn't exactly news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970922)

Here's my favorite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsjTBdiPq8o&feature=related
Another good one for halloween.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971074)

I think I actually did read about this a few months ago on Slashdot. Either that or I'm getting crossed memories with Macross Plus as you point out..

Re:This isn't exactly news... (2, Informative)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970664)

Gorillaz have been around since 1998. They are mostly 2D though.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971014)

The Gorrilaz use the full 3-D version, I'm not sure what year they started. If you check them out on Youtube, they appeared at an MTV awards show with their virtual avatars in 3-D and had Madonna live onstage dancing with the virtual models. It looked really slick and from what I've heard it looks just as good if not better in person.

It's basically an updated version of the classic "Pepper's Ghost" illusion (wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of the effect with diagrams). Essentially it uses semi-transparent mirrors to reflect an image of someone off-stage onto a slanted glass or mirrored 'screen' which creates the illusion of someone being on the stage. The modern version the Gorrilaz use does away with the off-stage room in favor of a semi-transparent display glass which is in front of the stage, as opposed to being on the stage in the classic version, and uses a digital projector to just pump the image out.

But the 'hologram' part of this is really, really old news. And so is the whole bit about the virtual idol. In fact, if you read the article it's mostly just a fluff piece talking about how the Japanese like to freak out over the virtual idols. So it's really a piece about the audiences not the idol or the technology. And the only mention of the tech is a single phrase in the sentence which links to an article the same site ran in Dec of 2009.

So while this is rather interesting if you've never come across it before, this article is Old News.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (2, Interesting)

EdZ (755139) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971230)

Despite the summary, the hologram thing is of little importance. The real interesting thing is the Vocaloid software itself: The actual singing is computer generated. Admittedly, it uses an initial sample bank from a human singer for the seed phonemes (think an incredibly over the top application of autotune), but it's still pretty impressive that what is essentially a computer generated singer has actually had hit singles in the charts.
It's only a matter of time until someone links one of the numerous music-generation algorithms up to Vocaloid, adds a vocal writing algorithm (there are automated scientific paper generators, and 99.9% of lyrics are total nonsensical garbage anyway), and uses some artificial phoneme seed samples (from, say, a fluid dynamic simulation of a model of the human vocal cords), and you'd have songs written and sung pretty much entirely without human intervention.

As an aside, if you're interested in trying this out, and don't want to pay for Vocaloid and one of Crypton's soundbanks (Hatsune Miku, Kagamine Rin/Len, Megurine Luka, etc), there's a freeware version called Utau [wikia.com] , which not only has a large bank of soundfonts for your to download, but allows you to create your own by singing the seed phonemes into a microphone.

Re:This isn't exactly news... (3, Funny)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970994)

Attempts to use the Hatsune Miku vocaloid to do anything in English are usually hilariously awful.

Captain: What Happen?

Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.

Operator: Main screen turn on.

....and so on

Re:This isn't exactly news... (1)

fuzzix (700457) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971102)

Erm... yes, that's great and all. Except Hatsune Miku has been around since 2007, and versons of the the Vocaloid software that powers "her" has been around a good bit longer (since 2004 or so, I think). I'm pretty sure I heard reference to special-effects-heavy concerts more than a year ago.

Precisely. Japan's latest rock star is a discovery of the Whitman Campaign [twitter.com] . Jerry Brown knows what I'm talkin' 'bout.

Already in 1996.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971348)

..the Japanese developed virtual artists like that.

http://chinyankeat.tripod.com/dk96.htm

It just keeps getting worse and worse... (2, Insightful)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970574)

Oh well so much for that starving artist spiel

Re:It just keeps getting worse and worse... (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971156)

You can think of Hatsune Miku as the artist, or you can think of her as an instrument and the voice manipulator as the actual performer.

News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970588)

Man, this is old news... she's been active for several years now.

Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (2, Insightful)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970608)

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (3, Insightful)

acedotcom (998378) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970640)

macross plus predates simone by about 10 years...sorry bro

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (2, Informative)

dieth (951868) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970792)

Sharon Apple for the win. Information High [youtube.com]

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (3, Informative)

pchan- (118053) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970878)

Sharon Apple for the win. Information High [youtube.com]

Megazone 23 [wikipedia.org] (1985) has that beat by about 10 years. The character of Eve Tokimatsuri [wikipedia.org] is a computer-generated popular singer.

Himitsu Kudasai - Megazone 23, Part II [youtube.com]

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (4, Informative)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970678)

William Gibson's Idoru [wikipedia.org] too, back in '96. I don't think the idea of having entirely synthetic pop-idols is that new...

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (2, Interesting)

atomicstrawberry (955148) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970716)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru [wikipedia.org] - 1996
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross_Plus [wikipedia.org] - 1994

The concept of a computer-generated 'virtual' singer / popstar isn't really something new at all. It's probably an inevitable consequence of the modern music industry and its manufactured pop artists, fake music videos and whatnot. A virtual idol won't need to eat or sleep, they can never be involved in a scandals, they don't do drugs, they'll do exactly what you tell them, they don't get royalties and they never retire.

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971046)

It'd be interesting to see a manufactured virtual scandal for publicity. Like claim that rogue disgruntled employees broke in and made a sex tape starring the virtual celebrity.

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971146)

What do you think the future of porn is? :)

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971336)

They already had that in Gibson's Idoru.

Re:Life imitates Art or Art imitates Life ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971360)

Kyoko Date, anyone?

So? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970618)

The Gorillaz already did this.

Re:So? (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970894)

In terms of being virtual, yes.
In terms of being software doing the singing, I don't think they did, weren't they actual singers with "virtual" avatars of sorts?

Japan (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970626)

Should have nuked them harder.

Re:Japan (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971058)

I disagree. I think these are all after-effects of radiation.

No more artificial than our pop stars (1)

SilasMortimer (1612867) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970630)

I bet she lip syncs, too.

Re:No more artificial than our pop stars (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971166)

And there's no need for autotune! (Okay, maybe some autotune is in order when Miku refuses to sing the way you're telling her to sing...)

Stadium Concerts to Sold Out Crowds? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970634)

Really? What stadium?

I mean just a little reality check here.
1. "She" isn't, and has never been in any of the top music 50 charts in Japan.
2. I just asked around, nobody in my office has ever heard of this. (My Japanese office... full of IT workers...). Maybe someone who:s not here has heard of her, but ... that would be "I heard of her" not "oh my god she's so popular..ponies..". Sheesh.

For J-Pop, Perfume (and that stupid ABK group) are popular right now. Utada Hiraru and Amuro Namie continue to release hits and refuse to go out of style. There are a lot of others, but nobody (Except perhaps extreme nerds who specialize in that kind of stuff) knows who Hatsune Miku is.

Only online can stuff be blown so out of proportion by people who don't even live here.

so (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970882)

you arent an 'extreme nerd' then ... a very unfortunate statement to make, in slashdot ...

Re:so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971226)

Well I suppose I am in some ways, like I know how to do assembly language programming of m68k, ppc, etc.

On the other hand, I don't live in my parents' basement, nor have I ever understood the association between computer nerds and anime geeks. I think computers are cool because you can make them do anything and apply their power to many different problems. That doesn't mean I like to play with action figures of anime or hang out in Maid Cafes...

Re:Stadium Concerts to Sold Out Crowds? (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971114)

The 39 Miku day concert was held in Zepp Tokyo, which according to Wikipedia, has a capacity of around 2000 seats. It's "merely" a concert hall, not a stadium, but I think that's pretty good for a voice synthesizer.

The debut album featuring Hatsune Miku by supercell managed to top out at #4 on Oricon's weekly rankings for music sales when it was released. Also, if you take a look at Joysound, a major karaoke vendor in Japan that added Vocaloid songs to their catalog, Vocaloid songs occupy 9 out of the top 15 spots in the current weekly rankings across *their entire catalog*, not just the anime-related stuff. It missed out of the top 3, with those going to two AKB48 songs and the Eva opening song. So yes, not more popular than AKB48, but not totally unknown either.

Re:Stadium Concerts to Sold Out Crowds? (1)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971164)

Goto Akihabara, grab ANY person, at random, and get educated.

Re:Stadium Concerts to Sold Out Crowds? (1)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971256)

Bonus points if you happen to grab a Vocaloid cosplayer.

Re:Stadium Concerts to Sold Out Crowds? (4, Informative)

Aereus (1042228) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971382)

I'm not really into the whole Vocaloid thing, but I remember there was something about a CD of Vocaloid music topping the charts there last year or such. A little Googling comes up with this excerpt:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=211424 [myanimelist.net]

Granted, it was only for one week, but still considering the "singer" is computer-generated, it's interesting.

"According to Oricon news, VOCALOID Hatsune Miku's album "EXIT TUNES PRESENTS Vocalogenesis feat. Hatsune Miku" has won the top in the weekly album CD sales ranking for May 17th - May 23rd. It's for the first time that a VOCALOID CD is ranked first in the weekly CD sales ranking. The album also includes the songs of other VOCALOIDs such as Kagamine Rin, Len, Megurine Luka, Meiko and Kaito. The cover illustration was drawn by Miwa Shirow.
Note that the sales of the CD, 23,000 copies, are the smallest number in Oricon's history among all the top sellers of the weekly CD rankings, reflecting the shrinkage of the CD market in Japan."

FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (5, Informative)

acedotcom (998378) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970636)

So Sharon Apple in Macross Plus was a hologram. She was an experimental AI but her emotions were provided by a human. Eventually she fell in love and gained her own emotions, and then tried to try to kill everyone after hacking into every military computer on the planet...

what was my point......OH YEAH...dont trust singing Japanese holograms.

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970686)

So then William Gibson's Idoru becomes the next candidate for the earliest fiction predicting this phenomenon.

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (1)

lxs (131946) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970852)

*cough* Pinoccio *cough*

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971086)

Despite being a rather nasty artificial intelligence, Pinocchio never got anywhere close to starting a global thermonuclear war.

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971116)

*cough* Pinoccio *cough*

Actually Pinoccio is a slightly altered version of classic tales of Golems from Jewish folklore.

What we're talking about is a virtual idol, that is to say something which isn't real and never was, but exists purely as a manifestation. I don't think Gibson's novel is the earliest version of the virtual phenomenon, although it's probably the most well-known. Macross Plus featured the same theme (at least in reference to the idol bit) but didn't start airing until 1995, Idoru was published in 1994.
I know I've run across similar types of themes in sci-fi short stories, I just can't place one in my mind right now (but for some reason Philip.K.Dick keeps nagging at me).

But if I had to choose two pieces of popular art that did a very good job of predicting not only the possibility of virtual idols, but the whole social environment around them, I'd have to say Gibson's Idoru as well as Macross Plus are the top two candidates.

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (1)

A3gis (708791) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970814)

WTB YF-19 plzkthnxbai

Re:FINALLY i get to make a MACROSS reference! (1)

Ecuador (740021) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971048)

Judging from how the crowd responds on the linked video, it is interesting to see that Sharon Apple is not far away. Well, I mean it is not far away temporally, since spatially it is still a few thousand km away, in Japan.

BTW whoever has not seen Macross Plus, should do so immediately (there is a more detailed-plot 4 episode version and a more action oriented movie version), it is one of the best anime ever (especially if you had watched Macross/Robotech as a kid).

This is all meaningless... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970674)

until holograms start givimg good head.

Modern Women (5, Insightful)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970682)

Pop idols have a huge tendency to disappoint their fans with their human behavior and accompanying personality deficiencies. Lo and behold, they're not actually idols. I can see the appeal in having a digital, holographic entity to fawn over. She'll never let the fan down with any scandalous behavior, she'll always have a perfect voice, and she'll never age.

Re:Modern Women (2, Insightful)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970708)

So I take it that also means we will never get to see her holographic koochie when she when is trying to get out of her holographic car and forgot to put on her holographic panties?

Re:Modern Women (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971130)

Since she's virtual, and the creators openly encourage fan-art... you can see where this is going... ;) Besides, all it'll take is some bored Japanese guy willing to add more "details" to the Miku 3D models in Blender...

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971276)

Oh no no no no, you can see that already! Admittedly the video on Youtube was taken down, several times, but it did exist!
The comments made by people were hilarious.
Don't forget all those hentai games you can almost certainly find pretty easily.

The craziness of extreme fandom is scary at times. I remember one idol done something "crazy" and it results in long time fans snapping discs from her and ripping up posters...

Re:Modern Women (2, Funny)

Reidsb (944156) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970754)

Yeah, until we get news footage of her illicit tryst with an underage defrag program.

Re:Modern Women (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971176)

It's okay, because she's already under-aged to begin with. (16) :) By the way, Norton Utilities is usually anthropomorphized in Japanese otaku culture as a creepy old man with a stethoscope...

Re:Modern Women (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970870)

she'll always have a perfect voice

No, she never will. Watch the video: that thing is awful, almost painful to listen. It sounds like a little girl autotuned to hell and back again.

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971118)

That's kind of what all J-Pop sounds like to me, so I assumed it was the perfect voice as well.

Re:Modern Women (2, Informative)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971204)

So, you're saying she sounds like capsule [wikipedia.org] and perfume [wikipedia.org] ? :p

On a more serious note, a (paid) update to Hatsune Miku gives her 6 additional voicing styles. I find that one of them might be able to sound somewhat like a real person if programmed well. Megpoid, using the same Yamaha sound engine, sounds a lot more realistic than the other Vocaloid2 products, and also doesn't require as much tweaking.

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971212)

Which isn't as bad as, say, most *actual* singers these days. At least Vocaloid has the decency to admit it's producing a fake autotuned voice.

The really bad part comes from the fact that people are growing accustomed to autotuning over here as well. We're literally one step away from accepting something like Hatsune Miku as our next Lady Gaga.

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970958)

Replace "pop idols" with "girlfriends", and you have the basis of 4chan's "waifu" (2-D wife) meme. See also: "3-D pig disgusting".

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971062)

Is it you, Viktor Taransky? S1m0ne called. She wanted her script back.

Re:Modern Women (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971340)

^ This

Exactly the reason I prefer Miku over human artists.

Also, the notion that she started like a synthesized voice and grew into a character of her own sort of has this idealized kind of pathos about it.

Miku belongs to the world, she wont join RIAA/MPAA (sure artists may make songs and shield them if they choose to, but then they will not be as popipopopular ( ^^ )). She's the F/LOSS of music.

I'm sorry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970688)

What the fuck is wrong with that audience? Is there some kind of poisoning in Japan's food supply causing widespread hormonal imbalance? It isn't natural.

Idoru? (1)

xbytor (215790) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970714)

I'm just sayin...

A good Hatsune Miku (2, Informative)

afree87 (102803) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970724)

Let's use this thread to post our favorite Miku videos.

Song of Grass and Snow [youtu.be]
Sinners in the Hands of God [youtu.be]
My Life is Over [youtu.be]
No Thank You [youtu.be]
Kurutto Odotte [youtu.be]

Re:A good Hatsune Miku (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970810)

Ordinarily I'm not a big fan of national anthems but somehow I like the Vocaloid versions.

I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk novels (4, Insightful)

guyminuslife (1349809) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970738)

On the other hand, it's not really that different from Gorillaz.

Re:I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk nove (1, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970914)

Gorillaz is a real band hiding behind cartoon characters; Miku is completely computer-made, even the voice (albeit sampled from a real voice actress). Also, Gorillaz's character design is far cooler!

Re:I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk nove (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971054)

Who do you reckon wrote the songs? A computer?

Re:I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk nove (2, Interesting)

kernhe (114975) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971098)

It's like Justin Bieber - an artificial product of the entertainment industry. OK you can't reboot Bieber.

Re:I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk nove (2, Funny)

zmollusc (763634) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971364)

That implies you may be able to boot Bieber. Good news for music lovers with big clumpy boots.

Re:I swear I read about this in 80s cyberpunk nove (1)

Blackajack (1856892) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971134)

I think Gibson wrote about it first in idoru.

so good (0, Offtopic)

scarveszcl (1925752) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970744)

Yes, that's great and all.Thanks for you sharing. Silk Scarf [silknoble.com]

And why not? (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970748)

Music is entertainment. If we can feel for an trash compacter or a deer, then why not for an animated human being? Not real? TV/Movies ain't real. Every pop-star opens a concert with "I am so happy to be here, you [insert locale here] are the greatest". Can't be true so the sentiment is false, fake, a performance.

Is the best singer selected, or the one with the prettiest face. Sometimes the producers get lucky and get both and then she turns into a publishity disaster because she can't keep mouth shut or her legs closed.

Remember "My fair lady"? You can clearly hear that the singing is dubbed over. But it works because Hepburn is pretty and acts the part out well but can't sing. Well, not good enough. We all were so happy for Susan Boyle, but lets face it, the reaction initially is what keeps any producer from attempting this for real with an unknown. Do not like it? Then change human nature. Even opera stars got to look the part these days. Used to be fat old women singing the parts of beautiful young girls and nobody cared if it was the bearded lady as long as she had shaved recently.

So, these producers got the perfect star. She won't cause a sex scandal, won't get sick, won't refuse to sign a new contract, can perform in two places at the same time, doesn't need rest, won't forget her underwear unless scripted etc etc.

Yes, some of you may hate the fakeness and prefer "real", but as said, what is real? Most music gets polished before release and is written to be sold. So the artists writes what he thinks will sell. Only a tiny handful produce music absolutely only because they want to with not a single thought for the audience. And even if that audience is a non-paying one, pandering for regonizition makes the product just as "fake". That is why so many people complain about the Tate. Why does every piece of non-commerical art have to to be so bloody big? Status? If you produce art for the status, you are no different then when you make something for the mass market.

If you do not like this type of music, don't listen to it. There will be other types produced, so why begrudge those that like this their own music? It is still written, still performed, still sung. What is fake about it? I think a lot of people are upset because they can see the mechanism in the Turk they thought was real. All pop music is fake, this one is just a bit more obvious about it.

Re:And why not? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970790)

Oh, you're bisexual. Might have helped to state that beforehand -- it's the only rational explanation for your post.

Re:And why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970832)

Would you take more or less the same views were we talking about political-leaders rather than pop-stars and movie-stars?

Re:And why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971064)

Would you take more or less the same views were we talking about political-leaders rather than pop-stars and movie-stars?

Meh .. whatever makes it easier for the average John Doe to realise politicians are nothing but puppets already.

At least people would know they are ruled by virtual entities programmed by corporations. It would be much more honest than our current "human" politicians.

Re:And why not? (3, Insightful)

xnpu (963139) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970844)

You give people too much credit. People like watching TV because they think that much of what they see *could* be real. The very fact that people pick up memes, mimic behavior, etc. from TV means they identify with the fiction they're presented.

Knowing that a role is played by a hologram instead of an actor makes it harder to identify yourself with it. At least initially. I expect most people to get over it quite quickly.

Re:And why not? (1)

Negatyfus (602326) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970960)

I don't like pop music for that reason. Not all music is fake. Really!

Re:And why not? (1)

bencyoung (1194791) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971186)

There's no such thing as fake music. If it's music, it's music...

Re:And why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971170)

That's why I am a NOFX fan.

Re:And why not? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971192)

"Yes, some of you may hate the fakeness and prefer "real", but as said, what is real? Most music gets polished before release and is written to be sold. So the artists writes what he thinks will sell. Only a tiny handful produce music absolutely only because they want to with not a single thought for the audience. And even if that audience is a non-paying one, pandering for regonizition makes the product just as "fake". That is why so many people complain about the Tate. Why does every piece of non-commerical art have to to be so bloody big? Status? If you produce art for the status, you are no different then when you make something for the mass market. "

So you see no difference between a company getting together, designing a pop star from the ground up to remove money from wallets, and ... say ... Hendrix or Lennon? Neil young? Pink Floyd? Clapton?

If that's your opinion, well great. I'll go for talented musicians putting their hearts and souls into the music

Re:And why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971266)

To emulate human, the most difficult part is not making something perfectly beautiful, it's making all those tiny flaws and imperfections that add to the beauty, and making it last. It's that small misplaced tone in music which gives it more resonance, instead of dissonance. It's those small freckles on a girl's cheek that makes her even cuter. Typically what you might call human touch.

New Order, a band which experimented a lot with electronic music in the 80's, said that a lot of what they created came from small accidents, they turned a knob wrong and they got something else, some unreliable equipment failed and produced something unexpected but fitting, and for "Your silent face" a messed up guitar riff became the melody. Not that everything they made were perfect, or good, but their best songs is still with me after 20 years, and probably always will. And I'm quite certain it wouldn't have been like that if it had been polished, in fact, I know because they tried: "Sub-culture" in single version was indeed given a polished production (with female backing vocals and more), which today sounds horribly dated, while the original album version is a bitter-sweet gem.

Not that a hologram and a vocaloid can't be great, but I think it's important to think of them as instruments. An instrument that someone someday will learn how to truly master, and make great art with, but that someone will always be a human being.

Who needs a hologram... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970766)

... when you've got Lady Gaga?

Bad news for idols (1)

DavMz (1652411) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970834)

Now, instead of having singing idols cosplaying into game characters, we can directly have singing game characters. And we don't have to worry about it getting old. I am sure fans will be pleased. As for me, I couldn't care less.

Only now? (1)

Kireas (1784888) | more than 3 years ago | (#33970964)

Ridiculously stale news, but cool nonetheless. I think the news source must have been looking at Google's slideshow of stuff on the internet - Miku and her concerts were on the third or fourth page or so.

/me stale tags, moves on

Re:Only now? (1)

zalas (682627) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971142)

I'm guessing it got brought to light because Sega and the software creators put on a series of showings of the Blu-Ray concert footage recently in the US.

The real threat... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33970986)

That the mpaa and riaa should be worrying about. Not piracy... virtualization!

Once we replace all your 'artists' and 'actors' with software... What point is there in ANY of you guys even existing anymore?

Of course popular sentiment and majority support of 'real' artists would have gone a long way to keeping you guys working long into the future....

Still think it was smart to sue all your customers and piss off everyone?

haha! fools! we're gonna replace all of you with software since we despise you!

And shortly after that, all women will be replaced with software when breeding isnt involved... Japan is working hard at this even now.
But that's another rant... http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

I for one welcome our... oops there is a problem! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971004)

I, for one, welcome our new all-singing, all-dancing holographic overlo... whatever...

Anyhow, what do you substitute for "overlords", when the invaders you submit to are female?

Re:I for one welcome our... oops there is a proble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971208)

overladies?

she'd be a good calculus teacher (1)

Singularitarian2048 (1068276) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971018)

I'd like to make Hatsune Miku deliver video lectures for a calculus class. Can I do that?

S:hi7... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971148)

as 74e premiere

Uncanny valley (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971198)

The way it moved was everything but human, and it definitely elicited a "AAUGH KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE" reaction to me.

But still, virtual beings can be rockstars now.

Well. That's something. Not entirely sure about what, but that's something.

I'm just waiting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33971200)

for the lip-syncing controversy. I wonder if a hologram will leave the stage the same way as a real person, too.

We had this go on in the US in the 80s... (1)

Golbez81 (1582163) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971270)

He was called Max Hedrum

Re:We had this go on in the US in the 80s... (1)

Golbez81 (1582163) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971282)

* Headroom I mean, and he was actually from the UK I think...

Somehow... (1)

ignavus (213578) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971278)

Somehow she seems more real than Britney Spears ...

Vocaloid (0, Redundant)

crf00 (1048098) | more than 3 years ago | (#33971298)

For those of you who don't know, this singing synthesizer technology is called Vocaloid [wikipedia.org] . The impressive thing about Vocaloid is that it can synthesize the singing of a whole song without requiring a real human singer. Miku [wikipedia.org] actually got popular by the vast amount of fan made viral musics spread in YouTube. This just show us the power of user generated content and the value of "open source" music, because anyone with the Vocaloid software can use Miku's voice to "sing" easily.

The technology may not be perfect yet, as the singing still sound a bit unnatural. But as technology advances, we can expect it to mimic human voice more closely or even make it hardly distinguishable. Combining this with the virtual intrument [wikipedia.org] technology, just imagine how much creativity we will have when average joe can produce studio quality music with just a computer.
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