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Oracle Needs a Clue As Brain Drain Accelerates

Soulskill posted about 4 years ago | from the trimming-the-muscle dept.

Java 388

The Contrarian writes "It looks like Oracle is not suiting former Sun staff well, nor community members in the Java and OpenOffice.org communities. This weekend saw an unusually large number of rather public departures, with (among many others listed in the article) the VP running Solaris development quitting, the token academic on the JCP walking out and top community leaders at OpenOffice.org nailing their resignations to the door after having the ex-Sun people slam it in their face. The best analysis comes from an unexpected place, with the marketing director of Eclipse — usually loyal defenders of their top-dollar-paying members — turning on Oracle and telling them to get a clue."

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So obvious question... (4, Interesting)

nebaz (453974) | about 4 years ago | (#34020500)

Where are they going? And are they hiring?

Re:So obvious question... (4, Interesting)

nschubach (922175) | about 4 years ago | (#34020564)

All this irks of inside deals.

Why would a company just sit in the corner quietly letting the community distrust them, leave, and never want to come back. It's poor business and it smells a bit like someone else is pulling the strings.

Re:So obvious question... (2, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | about 4 years ago | (#34020622)

Follow the money. Oracle is. You're not talking altruism here, you're talking about shareholder return for Oracle shareholders.

This is not a 'community' sort of organization. You're with the program (pun intended) or not.

Re:So obvious question... (5, Insightful)

chaboud (231590) | about 4 years ago | (#34020718)

You can't build a heavily community-driven business model around things like OO, Java, and, to some extent, Oracle, and then just cut it off and let things fester. At least, not if you intend to actually be in those markets in 5-10 years.

The trick is that, given what we've seen from Oracle in the past few months, they're pretty much doing their best to monetize (read: ruin for short-term gain) Sun in the dumbest ways possible. They're going around and crapping in everyone's corn-flakes. Of course people think that they're up to no good.

Re:So obvious question... (4, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | about 4 years ago | (#34020780)

You're not listening. I didn't say it was moral, good for you, or the route to improved community(s) relationships. It is what Oracle does: make money.

OSS is a triviality to Oracle. They're out to make money. I'm not trying to be mean or stupid--> this is what they do. If it doesn't serve that purpose, kiss it goodbye. This is what some of us old-timers were trying to warn of; Oracle is a totally mercenary army. Join up, or you're probably the enemy or at least in their way.

Re:So obvious question... (5, Insightful)

FooAtWFU (699187) | about 4 years ago | (#34020872)

The purpose of Java is to get companies to write fancy enterprise apps in Java and sell them Oracle products as the database back-end. Why exactly they'd buy the #1 tool which people use to access your flagship application, and then proceed to alienate everyone who uses it, is beyond me... but I don't see how it helps Oracle make money.

Re:So obvious question... (3, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 4 years ago | (#34021284)

Why would it matter if a "fancy enterprise app" is written in Java or not? I've seen just as many .NET apps with Oracle backend. When you have a really large-scale enterprise deployment, what other options are there, aside from DB2, and how does Java change the picture?

Re:So obvious question... (4, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 4 years ago | (#34021340)

You actually answered your own question "the #1 tool which people use to access your flagship application". And frankly I don't see it hurting oracle long term because you are NOT their customer it is these giant enterprises that are hooked on Oracle DB the way desktop users are hooked on Windows. These people already pay insane amounts of money for Oracle DB, and my bet is old Larry is gonna go for a "top to bottom" full stack approach ala IBM, Where you have SPARC machines running a custom Solaris and both designed to squeeze maximum I/O out of Oracle DB and to be as tightly integrated as any iDevice. And frankly he'll probably make another couple of mountains of money off it, old Larry didn't get as rich as he is by not knowing how to maximize revenue.

My bigger concern is what it is gonna do to FOSS in general. While I'm primarily a Windows guy I use a lot of FOSS tools and this whole LibreOffice business, now with the developers abandoning ship, could really come back to bite FOSS companies in the butt. How? Because one of the ways to get serious revenue is to be bought out by a bigger company with the resources to put behind your project and who is gonna wanna buy a FOSS software company now? They will look at Oracle and say they didn't get the code (because libreOffice is quickly taking that) and they didn't get the people (because they all split) so what did they get for all that money? Office furniture? I predict in less than 3 years the ONLY ones you'll see buying FOSS companies are patent trolls hoping to milk the IP. After all they can hire a dozen Indians for every one American so they don't need the developers, and if they don't get the code either, what is left besides the IP?

Re:So obvious question... (1)

zill (1690130) | about 4 years ago | (#34021056)

You're with the program (pun intended) or not.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Re:So obvious question... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021164)

So you're a Sith then?... 'Cause that sounded like an absolute.

Re:So obvious question... (1)

zill (1690130) | about 4 years ago | (#34021360)

Doh!

I meant *handwave* I am not the Sith you're looking for.

Re:So obvious question... (3, Insightful)

geoffrobinson (109879) | about 4 years ago | (#34021464)

I'm glad you recognize the error of George Lucas's logic has led you astray.

Re:So obvious question... (1)

germansausage (682057) | about 4 years ago | (#34021264)

Do or do not.. there is no try.

Re:So obvious question... (5, Insightful)

Craig Maloney (1104) | about 4 years ago | (#34020686)

Because communities cost money to maintain. Oracle doesn't care about whiny developers; they only care about the bottom line. Developers will use what they're told by their management. Period. End of story.

As much as Oracle is an anathema to what developers and techies hold dear, until Oracle starts to see some damage to the bottom line, they won't care one iota.

No surprise (1, Troll)

m509272 (1286764) | about 4 years ago | (#34020844)

Larry Ellison was only recently eclipsed by Steve Jobs as the bigger d'bag. No surprise here. I wish at some point it would bite these d'bags in the a**, Unfortunately that never seems to happen.

Abusiveness is just a hobby. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020714)

"Why would a company just sit in the corner quietly letting the community distrust them, leave, and never want to come back."

Abusiveness is a pastime of billionaires such as Larry Ellison and Bill Gates. They abuse the rest of us because they can. Abusiveness is just a hobby for them.

Both Oracle and Microsoft make so much money because they have virtual monopolies, not because they are good at what they do. It is too difficult and painful to go elsewhere for what they supply, so their customers accept the abusiveness.

Re:Abusiveness is just a hobby. (4, Interesting)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#34020926)

When you're that big, it's easy to step on people just by moving around.

Oracle and Microsoft could be careful. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021448)

"When you're that big, it's easy to step on people just by moving around."

Have you ever seen a horse or an elephant step on a human? Generally, I've found, they know they are big, so they are careful. Oracle and Microsoft could be careful. The fact that they aren't careful shows their abusiveness is deliberate.

Re:So obvious question... (4, Interesting)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#34020898)

it smells a bit like someone else is pulling the strings.

Very likely. It's more like they bought Sun to kill it, as a favor to a friend...

Re:So obvious question... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021022)

And perhaps that friend was HP. HP is a direct competitor to Sun afterall and the CEO of HP (ex-CEO now) was Mr. Ellison's buddy.

Re:So obvious question... (3, Interesting)

znerk (1162519) | about 4 years ago | (#34021186)

It's poor business and it smells a bit like someone else is pulling the strings.

Perhaps Steve Jobs [slashdot.org] is the puppeteer?

Re:So obvious question... (1)

infosinger (769408) | about 4 years ago | (#34021274)

Is it possible that this is, already, the influence of Mark Hurd? If there are no $'s coming into a group, it gets cut. Show me

Re:So obvious question... (3, Insightful)

williamhb (758070) | about 4 years ago | (#34021338)

All this irks of inside deals.

Why would a company just sit in the corner quietly letting the community distrust them, leave, and never want to come back. It's poor business and it smells a bit like someone else is pulling the strings.

All this smells of Oracle kicking a few heads...

Oracle's community relations might not be "nice" but they have unblocked some serious blockages. Remember, when Oracle bought Sun, the Java Community was effectively on strike, threatening to veto the Java 7 specification unless Sun gave in and gave proper support to Apache Harmony (and by extension Google Android) which would have doomed Sun's Java business. IBM had been long-since trying to pull the rug out from under Sun and "eclipse" Sun over Java, and they could do that because of its relative openness. The OpenOffice/LibreOffice issue is again where Sun's slight-openness was being used as a stick to beat the company with; if it was proprietary there'd be no issue, but because it is somewhat open Sun gets beaten with twigs for not doing more. Remember the flack they had for putting Java code into OpenOffice before the JVM was open source? Since Oracle have taken over, they've taken a tougher line that sounds community-unfriendly. But IBM has killed support for Harmony and fallen in line on Oracle's OpenJDK; much of the Java community has given up on the Harmony fight and the Java 7 spec looks like getting through -- even the Eclipse Foundation, Sun's former mortal enemy, is going to support it. Much of the community has been kicked off OpenOffice... coincidentally giving Oracle greater weight within the project to push its agenda through. Oracle probably won't get great press for their community relations, but they seem to be scarily effective at getting what they want out of the community of businesses (as opposed to the community of individual developers).

Re:So obvious question... (3, Informative)

naz404 (1282810) | about 4 years ago | (#34020628)

This sounds really, really bad for Java's future on OSX now that Apple's deprecated it and it's Oracle that's now supposed to do the porting.

Read this weekend perspective on the whole Apple dropping Java thing [subfurther.com] .

On the other hand, despite all the difficulties, with Oracle's vast resources at its disposal, it would be ridiculous if they couldn't do a new OSX port. Maybe Steve Jobs wants the opportunity to call Oracle "lazy" too ;P

Re:So obvious question... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020952)

Seriously, why should Apple write and maintain the technology of their competitors?

Screw Flash and screw Java.

Re:So obvious question... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021106)

But is it worth while to develop a new Java runtime for Apple? Apple has announced they will deprecate everything that runs on Java anyway.

Re:So obvious question... (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 4 years ago | (#34021154)

This sounds really, really bad for Java's future on OSX now that Apple's deprecated it and it's Oracle that's now supposed to do the porting.

Microsoft has (had) their own JVM but Sun always made their own Windows version. But Sun couldn't be bothered to made a Mac version?

Oracle doesn't need a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021326)

Oracle in and by itself is already a clue

No need for layoffs then (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | about 4 years ago | (#34020512)

Sounds like the staff is downsizing voluntarily (by quitting). Personally I'd rather wait for the layoff and the 1-2 months of severance pay, but whatever. (shrug)

Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 4 years ago | (#34020556)

Oracle is losing good employees, good teams, the kind of people who won't have trouble finding more work. Also a layoff may not have been forthcoming. Oracle doesn't seem to be big on downsizing their Sun acquisition, just mismanaging it. So you could well find if you said "Fuck it, I'll stay on until they lay me off," that in a year you are still there, and still on a horribly mismanaged project that you hate.

Plus they are leaving to make a point.

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Insightful)

Fluffeh (1273756) | about 4 years ago | (#34020752)

I read a very interesting article about workplace restructuring and offering redundancies a while back, but I cannot find a relevant link. I did find a similar article though here [roadtransport.com] .

The disadvantage is that the employees most likely to volunteer for redundancy are often those the employer would least wish to lose, namely the good performers who are able to find a new job easily.

The people who are leaving here aren't even taking big payouts. They are leaving because they are THAT good that they are able to pick and choose the sort of work that they want to do, and are rewarded well enough for their work that they can choose to find a position possibly in a lesser financial bracket and still not worry.

These are the folks that are really the bread and butter behind the whole project. They are the ones that will either make, or more likely break (according to current trend) the whole acquisition that Oracle has done.

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Insightful)

Lord Ender (156273) | about 4 years ago | (#34021024)

Everyone says "mismanaged," but the only thing that really matters is the bottom line. If they mangle the hell out of Sun, but still manage to grow their own stock valuation by $7.4B in the next 20 years or so, they profited from the purchase.

Oracle doesn't sell to "the community." They sell to PHBs and banks. Do they need top coders or community goodwill to do that? Probably not. It's all marketing and backroom deals in the big-contract software world.

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Insightful)

winwar (114053) | about 4 years ago | (#34021316)

"Everyone says "mismanaged," but the only thing that really matters is the bottom line. If they mangle the hell out of Sun, but still manage to grow their own stock valuation by $7.4B in the next 20 years or so, they profited from the purchase."

But does the bottom line really matter? Just because you manage to grow doesn't mean you had good management. You could have mismanaged your way out of significantly more money. That they don't care indicates that the bottom line really isn't of primary importance. What's the point of having good employees if you don't use their talents? If you really don't need them, then get rid of them on good terms. What's the point of throwing away goodwill if you don't have to? Or not trying to gain any if it doesn't cost anything? That is classic mismanagement.

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Interesting)

sg_oneill (159032) | about 4 years ago | (#34021072)

Dear Oracle,

Half the MySQL people have run off screaming, OpenSolaris is now as good as dead (and with it the last best hope for Solaris itself) , OpenOffice has pretty much lost its shit, and James frigging Gosling, of all people, has basically packed his bags and gone home.

Sure you got the Sun IP. Now what? Hire some 20yos to work on it? Good luck with that shit!

I hope to hell Google kick your ass in court, then build an Enterprise stack out of Davlik, so your left with empty hands.

Your ignoring Sun, now Sun is going away. Congratulations!

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (2, Insightful)

Ex-MislTech (557759) | about 4 years ago | (#34021410)

They can ship it to India or China and have ppl work on it for super cheap.

Why hire ppl in the US who expect extravagance like homes and cars.

I don't think they bought what they did to embrace it, they just wanted it contained.

That is done now.

Re:Most of the people leaving don't need it (4, Interesting)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | about 4 years ago | (#34021144)

There's a sort of nimbus around highly creative people that other creative people want to be around. I would suspect that for every top-level name that leaves an Oracle, dozens - if not hundreds - will be updating their resume. In about 40 years in IT I've seen a pattern repeat rather a lot; once a firm is declared "toxic" by the best minds, they reach a sort of "avalanche point" and that firm can kiss their market leadership goodby within about three years, no matter how much marketing mind share they have. Some, like IBM, have recovered from that sort of thing (it took several archiquakes to make the change though) but it takes longer to climb back than it does to fall.

If you're a long term investor, I'd start slowly leaking Oracle shares out of your portfolio about now. Microsoft? Maybe. Watch to see what venture capitalists are lining up behind those brilliant ex-employees, and ponder. This industry hasn't run out of breakthroughs yet.

Re:No need for layoffs then (5, Insightful)

chaboud (231590) | about 4 years ago | (#34020744)

If you're good enough to get a better job somewhere else, just leave. The best people aren't going to get laid off unless they make it quite clear that they aren't doing any work.

Besides, this is about making a statement, making a stand on principle. In early 2009 I quit a job I'd had for 10 years, on principle. It was a tough move to make, but absolutely the right one.

Sometimes, when you are pushed into making a move, you realize it's the move you should have made years before.

Re:No need for layoffs then (5, Insightful)

bzipitidoo (647217) | about 4 years ago | (#34021446)

Yes. I can speak from the other side of that decision. Several times now I have been in terrible jobs. And I chose to stay. I doubted whether the job was going as badly as it looked. Kept trying to work with people even after they'd clearly demonstrated that they were incompetent, bullying, abusive, and treacherous. At one job it was so bad we never even got around to doing any real work, but stayed mired in political foolishness. We could not agree on what to do, because everyone was so much more interested in being the big man who was calling the shots that they'd rather hang than endorse any plan other than their own. They all saw being the author of The Plan as the ticket to job security. In the end, we all hung, and deserved it.

Why did I stay? Didn't want to be seen as a wimp and a quitter, and don't like giving up. Yes, yes, for fear of looking like a wimp, I wimped out. Talked myself into doubting the meanings of what I was seeing. Then there are all the vague fears of what such a move might do to your career. And you can always find news about the job market being terrible right now, even when it isn't. Too easy to buy into that. Supposedly it doesn't look good on the resume if you're a job hopper. Potential employers will be wondering if you are "reliable". They have a whole bunch of subjective criteria that are all the more powerful for being just about unconscious. If you left one job before you had another job lined up, they'll doubt your sanity. It's very hard, and scary, to walk away from a paycheck. To some people, pay trumps all. No matter how beat up, abused, and demoralized you are, no matter if every proposal you make is instantly mocked, shredded, and dismissed for political reasons that have nothing to do with the merits of the ideas, nor how many doubts and aspersions about your competence and your work ethic are expressed and cast, no matter how many times you are manipulated and shoved into a hopeless situation and then blamed for failing, or framed, you should take it like a man because you are being paid. Stiff upper lip.

Well, no, you shouldn't. No one should take that. Keep some savings on hand so you can leave. Then do so, even if you aren't good enough to get a job somewhere else. Do it not just for your own sake, but for all the others who are in the same boat as you. I wish I had. Staying on is implicit approval of the management. My hat is off to you, sir, for having the guts to give them what they had coming.

Re:No need for layoffs then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021116)

Sounds like the staff is downsizing voluntarily (by quitting). Personally I'd rather wait for the layoff and the 1-2 months of severance pay, but whatever. (shrug)

Well, not everyone can be bought. Some people would prefer to make a stand for what they believe in, instead of continuing to work for the company they disagree with just for some extra cash.

No mention of Apple? (0, Flamebait)

c_forq (924234) | about 4 years ago | (#34020522)

Of course everyone panned the evil, controlling Steve Jobs for dropping Java from OS-X. But everyone else dropping away should be celebrated. No double standard here.

Re:No mention of Apple? (0, Troll)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 4 years ago | (#34020554)

Seems to me this is a bunch of people standing up for what they believe in even though it may cost them financially. It would be nice to see a few Apple employees do the same.

Re:No mention of Apple? (4, Insightful)

Graff (532189) | about 4 years ago | (#34020862)

Seems to me this is a bunch of people standing up for what they believe in even though it may cost them financially. It would be nice to see a few Apple employees do the same.

Maybe the fact that there aren't a slew of Apple employees leaving means that a lot of people are happy to work for Apple. Just sayin'...

Re:No mention of Apple? (1)

Asclepius99 (1527727) | about 4 years ago | (#34021146)

Didn't Apple employees call themselves slaves a few months ago and file a class action suit?

Re:No mention of Apple? (4, Insightful)

dudpixel (1429789) | about 4 years ago | (#34020644)

these people aren't dropping java, they're dropping oracle. there is a big difference - this has nothing to do with apple or your beloved SJ. you wont find too many oracle-haters who dont also believe java should be freed from oracle (and therefore still used globally).

Re:No mention of Apple? (1)

Craig Maloney (1104) | about 4 years ago | (#34020694)

Beg pardon, but I pretty much see Apple dropping Java support as telling, rather than a bad thing. It means Apple is looking to control all ends of the development chain.

Re:No mention of Apple? (1)

havokca (1864454) | about 4 years ago | (#34021092)

or they see the writing on the wall and want nothing to do with whatever bullshit Oracle's up to.

Re:No mention of Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021232)

Or they've been wanting to control all ends of the development chain but feared ditching Java would be a bad idea, until they started seeing whatever bullshit Oracle is up to and decided it was damn well time to jump ship and win out on all ends...

Re:No mention of Apple? (1)

fj3k (993224) | about 4 years ago | (#34020696)

If your cell-mate protests your imprisonment by staging a hunger strike, it might not help you out, but it's a nice gesture.
If your jailer protests your imprisonment by disposing of that symbolic key to your cell you can be pretty sure he's not really doing you a favour.

Re:No mention of Apple? (1)

chaboud (231590) | about 4 years ago | (#34020766)

You're really drawing a false parallel here. The motivations behind Apple's deprecation of 3rd party platforms are pretty transparent.

Just because people are unhappy with Apple doesn't mean they can't also be unhappy with Oracle.

Oversimplification is always bad.

Re:No mention of Apple? (5, Interesting)

znu (31198) | about 4 years ago | (#34021104)

You're really drawing a false parallel here. The motivations behind Apple's deprecation of 3rd party platforms are pretty transparent.

Apple is ditching Java and Flash. At the same time, they're actively supporting legitimately open web technologies, they've relaxed restrictions on the use of third-party development tools for iOS, and they ship Ruby bindings for Cocoa (and Ruby on Rails) with every Mac.

I merely see Apple picking and choosing what third-party platforms it likes. And as nearly as I can tell, they're doing it on the basis of quality and meaningful openness. That is, not just looking at whether there's an open specification for something, or an open source implementation, but whether it's de facto controlled by a single vendor and what the intentions of any such vendor seem to be.

I don't think the timing of Apple's Java announcement in relation to the Oracle acquisition is a coincidence. Steve Jobs might be friends with Larry Ellison, but Apple is rumored to have also walked away from ZFS over concerns about how Oracle might handle licensing of it. I don't think Apple trusts Oracle's intentions at all. And who could blame them?

Oversimplification is always bad.

Quite.

Kraftwerk FTW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020572)

I'm the operator with my pocket calculator.

Re:Kraftwerk FTW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021256)

Yes!!!

I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (5, Insightful)

newdsfornerds (899401) | about 4 years ago | (#34020596)

I hope they pay the price for their ignorance and hubris. What did they get for buying Sun, exactly? As far as I can tell, they got a busload of very smart engineers who can find work wherever they want, or found new companies. Oracle needs them more than they need Oracle, even in this economy.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (3, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 years ago | (#34020634)

Oracle wanted Sun IP. They got that. They don't want to do much with it except bring in some cash so engineers are of no use.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

newdsfornerds (899401) | about 4 years ago | (#34020922)

Specifically, what IP are you talking about? Java? Solaris? How do those generate cash? How could they?

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

powerspike (729889) | about 4 years ago | (#34020988)

apart from suing google for breach of IP?

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (5, Insightful)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | about 4 years ago | (#34021004)

I've got four words for you: patents, patents, patents, patents.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

hweimer (709734) | about 4 years ago | (#34021294)

I've got four words for you: patents, patents, patents, patents.

These patents are pretty useless as by distribution under GPLv2 everyone and his dog have already received licenses for them. The only thing that's left is to go after those implementations not derived of Sun's codebase (read: Google). But I somehow doubt that such a patent racketeering will bring in enough money to make the Sun acquisition a smart investment.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (2, Interesting)

worx101 (1799560) | about 4 years ago | (#34020650)

I honestly wonder what Oracle is doing, was it really worth buying SUN strictly for its hardware side? Maybe they don't care about the software engineers? Maybe they are lost with what to do with them??? Is Oracle completely blind?

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (3, Insightful)

Tr3vin (1220548) | about 4 years ago | (#34020784)

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (4, Insightful)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | about 4 years ago | (#34020868)

I think they wanted Sun's patent portfolio. How long did they own it before they filed a lawsuit against Google?

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (2, Interesting)

worx101 (1799560) | about 4 years ago | (#34021026)

... I think you are right on this one. I am really beginning to dislike Oracle, they make Microsoft and Apple look like saints.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

newdsfornerds (899401) | about 4 years ago | (#34020940)

Were you sleeping when Oracle killed the hardware side?

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

worx101 (1799560) | about 4 years ago | (#34021018)

No offense, but can you provide me a with a link on this? Because a quick google only shows stories about how Oracle is now a hardware player since it acquired SUN.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

exentropy (1822632) | about 4 years ago | (#34020968)

Is Oracle completely blind?

Apparently not: their stock price has gone up 21% since the merger on January 27.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021220)

Call me back in a year with updated figures... assuming they're still listed, that is.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

dudpixel (1429789) | about 4 years ago | (#34020666)

what did they get? a lot of bad press, so far.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#34020814)

What did they get for buying Sun, exactly?

Works pretty good for Microsoft, since the SCO thing didn't pan out so well, aside from its diversionary purpose. Further fragments F/OSS. One more potentially competing system (OS and Office suite) out of the way.

Re:I hope Oracle doesn't get a clue (3, Informative)

htdrifter (1392761) | about 4 years ago | (#34021038)

I hope they pay the price for their ignorance and hubris. What did they get for buying Sun, exactly?

They got hardware which is what they've wanted for a long time. Sun has a wide range of great hardware and a very solid OS. The evolution of Oracle DB requires intimate control of the system at the hardware level. The database server will be able to directly control resource allocation.

I don't think they were interested in the rest of the company. It's probably just in the way.
It appears they are focusing on their area of expertise.

Larry does it His Way (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020598)

I've never worked at Oracle or Sun, but if I read the man correctly he is not about to be swayed by either criticism or staff departures, even high level staff. At any rate, replacements can be hired or brought in through acquisition; no engineer or manager is indispensable.

Clearly, Ellison does not think of Oracle as an open, collaborative enterprise like a university, but rather as an empire, like IBM in the '60s and '70s (his own analogy) or Microsoft in the '90s. If people don't like it, tough. They'll usually end up paying him to use his stuff anyway.

Re:Larry does it His Way (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020668)

Clearly, Ellison does not think of Oracle as an open, collaborative enterprise like a university, but rather as an empire...

Empires rise and fall.

If people don't like it, tough. They'll usually end up paying him to use his stuff anyway.

We didn't. I'm was just promoted to COO of Hewlett-Packard's acquisitions wing because I spearheaded a migration to MySQL from the Oracle Enterprise Suite. I saved my company billions of dollars promoting temporal and technological efficiency. It really wasn't much of a hassle because people who know MySQL well are like Mexicans hanging around Home Depots - there's no shortage of 'em.

The shrewd move was so successful that I was awarded the position of my old boss, the old COO. His secretary is now blowing me on a daily basis while he's stuck begging for pussy from the HR and mail ladies.

Plus, I called Larry Ellison personally and told him to go fuck himself. Top of the world, baby, and nobody will ever take that away from me.

Re:Larry does it His Way (4, Funny)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 years ago | (#34020970)

Gosh I bet Larry was mortified.

Re:Larry does it His Way (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | about 4 years ago | (#34021194)

Empires rise and fall.

Whoa! Is that you, Anonymous Gibbon?

Re:Larry does it His Way (3, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 4 years ago | (#34020792)

At any rate, replacements can be hired or brought in through acquisition; no engineer or manager is indispensable.

They do occasionally go out and found competing companies, however. Some quite good... Occasionally they even get bought by the company they walked from in the first place.

Re:Larry does it His Way (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020818)

Oracle doesn't like playing with anyone, unless they are attempting an acquisition.

Recently I had to enquire about buying Solaris licenses for a client so they can upgrade next year and was told by our channel provider they had to be purchased directly from Oracle now, then got a warning that Oracle had been going behind Sun Partners backs and attempting to sell to their clients directly.

Nothing lasts forever (2, Insightful)

Snaller (147050) | about 4 years ago | (#34020920)

One day Oracle will reach the end of the road - perhaps that day is visible in the distance?

re Which have eyes, and see not (1)

jelizondo (183861) | about 4 years ago | (#34020660)

Someone has suggested implanting an eye in Mr. Ellison's backside..

So that he can see where his shit is going!

Sun did not make money on this stuff (1, Insightful)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | about 4 years ago | (#34020734)

Why should Oracle pay these guys? They did not create revenue for Sun or Oracle.

Re:Sun did not make money on this stuff (4, Interesting)

Garen (246649) | about 4 years ago | (#34020896)

From Mike's blog [sun.com] (in reference to the ZFS+Fishworks effort), probably the highest profile departure from the aforementioned article is this fun fact:

"What began as a mere $2.1M incremental engineering investment for 2.8 years has now shipped more than 100 petabytes, more than 6000 systems, and 100X in revenue. "

Re:Sun did not make money on this stuff (1)

afabbro (33948) | about 4 years ago | (#34021088)

Are we to understand Sun only sold 6,000 of these storage appliances? 100PB = 100,000TB / 6,000 = 16.6TB per systems. Yeah, I guess they did. For small rackmount storage, that's not exactly burning up the marketplace.

Re:Sun did not make money on this stuff (1)

znerk (1162519) | about 4 years ago | (#34021268)

Are we to understand Sun only sold 6,000 of these storage appliances? 100PB = 100,000TB / 6,000 = 16.6TB per systems. Yeah, I guess they did. For small rackmount storage, that's not exactly burning up the marketplace.

Ah, yes, but how much is the per unit cost?

Re:Sun did not make money on this stuff (2, Informative)

c0lo (1497653) | about 4 years ago | (#34021312)

For small rackmount storage, that's not exactly burning up the marketplace.

Without scorching the market place, the figures seems to indicate a successful project in financial terms (in opposition to what the OP said: "They didn't make money").

Wait a minute. Oracle is killing Eclipse/Java? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020772)

Man, I can't be the only one who sees that as a good thing. I've written portable C in a MSVC environment (ran it on Windows for my own purpose, and BSD for production), and had some aspiring "drop-in replacement manager" ask "why aren't you using Eclipse? You must have written that in Java for it to run on both platforms".

Killing Eclipse/Java, and making it impossible for guys like that to ever bother me again? I'd pay Oracle to do that. It'd be a public service.

A couple of my own projects have been acquired and killed. Java is a pretty big thing to have that happen; but Oracle is a pretty big company. Why should Java developers have it any different from the rest of us?

Burn in hell Oracle (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020798)

Thanks for being a patent troll to end all patent trolls. Jerks.

Apple & Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020806)

He should not dragged the Apple Java issue in here. He should have directed that to Apple. With $50B+ in bank, it is not like Apple could not afford to keep a few Engineers working on the Mac JVM port and it's not as if Oracle must provide JVMs for all platforms - plenty other vendors provide JVMs for their platforms.

Re:Apple & Java (1)

znerk (1162519) | about 4 years ago | (#34021302)

He should not dragged the Apple Java issue in here. He should have directed that to Apple. With $50B+ in bank, it is not like Apple could not afford to keep a few Engineers working on the Mac JVM port and it's not as if Oracle must provide JVMs for all platforms - plenty other vendors provide JVMs for their platforms.

Yeah, like Microsoft... wait, they got sued for doing that (admittedly MSFT were playing hardball, and struck out).

Maybe I'll try to support the other end of your argument, and point out that Apple is only 10% of the market... wait, no, because they used to be more like 2%. Seems they're big enough now that Jobs figures he can pressure Sun(Oracle) into paying Apple, or at least providing their product for free, rather than paying Sun(Oracle) licensing fees for the privilege of writing up a port of Sun(Oracle)'s product.

If Oracle drops the ball, here, they may just be desperate enough to do it... on the other hand, with the JVM being deprecated on Macs, it's quite possible there will be a hardware shift to support software backends.

Good Luck to the People Leaving! (3, Interesting)

crhylove (205956) | about 4 years ago | (#34020830)

I hope they find good and fulfilling work with a company that values them more highly. I'm scared they're going to start messing up VirtualBox next!

Viva Libre Office!!!

rhY

Re:Good Luck to the People Leaving! (3, Interesting)

crazycheetah (1416001) | about 4 years ago | (#34021308)

Being that I use VirtualBox on a daily basis for work (I run Linux on my one computer and need Windows; VirtualBox makes that painless and easy), I'm scared of this. However, I still keep getting updates to VirtualBox, and I think Oracle could actually have good use for it. I just fear they're going to kill a free version of it... I really fear that, because I don't use the OSE, because I need the USB support...

ORACLE Gone 1977-2010 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020838)

00.00 The End of Oracle, Now the Nightmare Begins

Wonder what Oracle's perspective is (4, Interesting)

starseeker (141897) | about 4 years ago | (#34020866)

Back in April '09 Schwartz sent an email [wsj.com] out that touched on Oracle and Sun's employees. Specifically:

Having spent a considerable amount of time talking to Oracle, let me assure you they are single minded in their focus on the one asset that doesn't appear in our financial statements: our people. That's their highest priority - creating an inviting and compelling environment in which our brightest minds can continue to invent and deliver the future.

I suspect the most interesting point here is whether Oracle considers these departures to be a problem or not - the open source community obviously has its priorities and skill sets it would consider key, but Oracle may take a different view.

Re:Wonder what Oracle's perspective is (4, Interesting)

EvilJohn (17821) | about 4 years ago | (#34020994)

I saw that too. I laughed, because when the company I worked for got acquired by Oracle they said the exact same thing.

Re:Wonder what Oracle's perspective is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021068)

sure, senior execs wont destroy a company for 2 years of bonuses, and santa is coming twice this year.

Oracle is Gay (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34020986)

Oracle is the new Apple. Apple is now old and gay. It is the fag company. Oracle is the new young fag. Apple is the old poof.

http://www.jerseys-2010.com (1)

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Oracle has never been a good place to work (4, Interesting)

TeriMaKiChooth (1925618) | about 4 years ago | (#34021044)

Oracle has never been a place to make a career. On average, employees leave every 3 years. Why? because that is the culture encouraged by Ellison - politics among employees

Its the file system .... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021054)

Oracle is DOS and non-case sensitive.

Solaris is UNIX and case sensitive.

Dito. Oracle has bought a butt-lode of technology that no one, NO ONE AT ORACLE, can ever hope in their wildest Cocaine filled dreams, like those of Larry, Bo Vie Bo, Eilson, could ever hope to understand in a million years of Clief Notes.

Sorry Lar. You ain't the Man.

Try to Eat my shorts ,,, and choke to death Lar.

Stupid pervert

Solaris will live again. Lar on the other hand, will not!

Re:Its the file system .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021304)

Von Drashek, is that you?

The real reason... (1)

gabereiser (1662967) | about 4 years ago | (#34021126)

is that oracle is in it for the patents. They bought Sun for their Java patents et al. They have already brought suit against Google for Android and are going to milk the legal machine while killing off any Java advancements. Oracle couldn't care less about Java... but they do care about multi billion dollar industries who use it... I give Java another year, maybe two, before it's completely dead....

reconcile these (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#34021370)

Oracle makes money. Their business model and their execution of it is profitable.

Sun does not. Their business model and their execution is not profitable.

If Oracle adopts Sun's practices, Oracle's support of any community will be as successful as Sun's wasn't.

If you're in favor of companies funding open source projects, please explain how releasing Solaris and Java under open source licenses earned any money for Sun.

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