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Korea Kicking People Offline With One Strike

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the strike-onetwothree dept.

The Internet 176

An anonymous reader writes "While there's lots of talk of 'three strikes' laws in places like France, it may be worth looking over at South Korea, which put in place a strict new copyright law, required by a 'free trade' agreement with the US (which was the basis for ACTA). It went into effect in the middle of 2009, and now there's some data about how the program is going. What's most troubling is that the Copyright Commission appears to be using its powers to 'recommend' ISPs suspend user accounts based on just one strike, with no notice and no warning. The system lets the Commission make recommendations, but in well over 99% of the cases, the ISPs follow the recommendations, and they've never refused to suspend a user's account."

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176 comments

Online gaming (3, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029394)

Given the importance of online gaming and internet addiction in South Korea, this is actually bigger there than it would be here.

However, in the age of 3G internet access, roaming WiFi hotspots, anonymizer services, and the prevalance of internet cafes in South Korea, I think you'll find it difficult to nail individuals to specific IPs.

Re:Online gaming (2, Interesting)

bondsbw (888959) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029598)

Speaking of games... ever notice how many real-life rules are based on baseball? What if the guy who invented baseball chose four-strikes, or two-strikes? Law and our economy may hang in the balance of some one-off decision made by a kid hundreds of years ago.

Re:Online gaming (1)

Entropius (188861) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029658)

Just imagine if it had been cricket, baseball's close cousin...

Re:Online gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029732)

Trust me, you don't want to know what Americans think of the term "wicked googly".

Re:Online gaming (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030754)

I don't want to be out middle stump just for downloading "Transformers".

Re:Online gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029800)

Ancient proverb say: Fish and visitors stink after three strikes.

Re:Online gaming (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030136)

That's an interesting idea. But I think it's likely that for any kind of "chances", three turns out to be a good number. Whether it's strikes or convictions or whatever, one is an accident, two is a coincidence, and three is a pattern of behavior. In other words, three strikes in baseball and three strikes in other things have the same root.

Re:Online gaming (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030204)

Fool me seven times or fewer, shame on you. Fool m eight or more times, shame on me.

Re:Online gaming (3, Funny)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031794)

Keep trying Mr.Bush, you'll get it one day!

Re:Online gaming (1)

Gerzel (240421) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030650)

Except there is not data being used to establish this. It is just an arbitrary number absolving the legal system of thought, and due process.

Re:Online gaming (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030202)

I assume it is more that someone assumed 3 was a fair number, and they associated it with a common existing phrase. If they had decided you went to jail for life on your fourth offense, they could have called it four downs and referenced football.

Re:Online gaming (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029678)

What about black-listing IPs OR MAC addresses...? Spoofing one's MAC address takes more effort than it does to switch to using my phone for internet.

Re:Online gaming (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029816)

MAC addresses do not go beyond any layer 3 device.

Re:Online gaming (1, Interesting)

NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030664)

If they are using IPv6, the MAC is part of the network address.

Re:Online gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031748)

No, it is not. This is simple FUD.

IPv6 routable addresses that any ISP can give you are at *minimum* /64, not /128. That means it is up to *you* to set the last 64-bits of the address. If you are lazy or don't care, autoconf will set it based on the MAC address of the interface. But there is NOTHING stopping you from using ANY of the 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 addresses available to you! IPv6 should never be used to deduce the MAC address of the interface as it is not reliable and frankly pointless.

Re:Online gaming (3, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029834)

Doing "ifconfig eth0 hw ether NEWMAC" takes effort?

Re:Online gaming (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030374)

You are assuming they are on Linux :)

Generally speaking, if you are using a variant of Linux changing a MAC address on an interface (on the command line no less) is a simple task since those skill sets are quite often present.

Windows? Considerably harder for the average user. In fact, I don't think there is a command line method to do it at all. AFAIK, you would need to go all the way through the device manager and specify it in the settings on the device directly. That, or the registry. Talk about a pain in the ass doing it that way.

Re:Online gaming (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030780)

While not a Windows evangelist by any means, I can tell you that, while it requires a short trip to registry-land, changing a MAC addy in Windows is not really that hard to do [tech-faq.com] .

Re:Online gaming (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031516)

In the context of a regular user, the registry method really is a pain in the ass.

What you linked to mentions the "key" in one sentence without elaborating on where you get it. From what I remember, that registry key is the GUID. In order to get it you would need to run a whole other command line utility to find it. Keeping in mind, you would also make sure you are looking at the correct interface.

By the time you are done doing all that with the user, you would have probably completed the change with the advanced tab using the GUI the whole time.

My whole point originally is what we consider to be "hard". The poster mentioned a single command in Linux to accomplish all of this. Generally speaking, most Linux users are going be pretty familiar with command lines in the first place. I am not that impressed that a Linux user can tell me the command line to generate a new MAC on an interface. If a regular windows user can run ipconfig and tell me the IP address of their local area connection without confusing the wireless adapter, I am impressed.

Using Linux in the first place is a pretty good at indicating a higher level of skill. Before any MS lovers out there get upset, I am still talking about regular users, not IT technicians and programmers.

Comparing Linux against Microsoft in this case is really not all that fair anyways. I still think that changing a MAC address for the average windows user is not as easy as you make it out to be, and most desktops are still firmly in MS territory.

Of course, for the last little while here I have been dealing with windows users that put USB ports into RJ11 jacks and ask me why their printers don't work. Maybe, the skill sets (or lack thereof) of the average windows users is a bit higher than I am estimating.

Re:Online gaming (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031138)

If you're using a computer, spoofing a mac address is unbelievably easy, there is software to do that. I've seen software that will spoof to a specific mac, a randomized mac, and even multiple macs which makes your box look like multiple devices on the network. It may take a little looking to find the right software, but it's out there, and though there are ones that are not for noobs, enough of them have very easy to use interfaces.

Re:Online gaming (2, Interesting)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029696)

nail individuals to specific IPs.

That's the main achilles heel of online free speech. Too bad nobody's figured out a solution that scales to everyone. Using other people's IP only goes so far. You can run all you want within Tor, but nobody wants to run the exit nodes. Plus, it brings the problem of anonymity for real crime with real victims, and therefore real investigations, right into the anonymity network. I run a cybercafe, it's a constant legal preocupation. I think of just closing all the time, many around here did...

Re:Online gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029730)

I2P. Inside the network, you have as much anonymity as you want. The lag sucks, but hey, nothing's free.

Re:Online gaming (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029874)

Nobody? There are plenty of Tor exit nodes. I'd run one if I had more than 64KBps of upstream.

Re:Online gaming (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030304)

People are afraid to run them, for for quite obvious reason. You risk having the FBI (Or your country's equivilent) smash your door down and arrest you after tracking some child-porn/cybercrime/other to your IP address. You could probably prove you were unaware of what's going over the link, but law enforcement are infamously eager to prosecute when high-profile crimes are involved, so the legal fees can be crippling even if you win. Anyone who runs a Tor exit node needs to be either stupid enough to not worry, or sufficiently idealistic they are willing to take the risk of such an event in the name of free speech activism.

Re:Online gaming (2, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030588)

I've never heard anyone here even go to court, unless they were part of a full network producing and selling content, and even that is not common.

For actually perpetrating acts of pedophilia with real children, sure, we have plenty. In fact we had a huge scandal [wikipedia.org] a few years ago, and the trial has ended just now (our justice system is sloooooow). But for downloading? Never heard of it.

Re:Online gaming (1)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031200)

> Tor, but nobody wants to run the exit nodes

I know plenty of organizations that run exit nodes. The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, ATF, etc.

Re:Online gaming (1)

elsurexiste (1758620) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030146)

You would have to prove a strong correlation between being an online gamer and being a file-sharer. I presume there is one, but wouldn't be necessarily so.

Re:Online gaming (2, Interesting)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030684)

I hope it's huge. Really HUGE. Godzilla huge. Yes I know that is Japan.....

Hopefully, they kick off a few thousand people a day. Seriously.

If there is one place to get a really good Darknet going, it would South Korea at that point. Anything to finally give the impetus for society at large to move from the Internet, to a darknet layered on top of it. Ultimately better for society anyways.

Re:Online gaming (1)

melikamp (631205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031632)

Effective darknets—the ones that give you actual privacy—will remain illegal on Internet, and it should not be fixed by technical means, since Internet can be either anonymous or fast, but hardly both. It may be within the law to run something like Tor, but that won't matter for liability purposes when someone is using your node for an illegal activity. At the very best, you will get your node taken in for questioning, and, IMHO, it is supposed to work this way. The only legit way to create anonymity on Internet is by legal means: individual access points have to be given the safe harbor reserved today for big ISPs.

At the same time, it will probably be just like you say: there will be a massive web of darknets based on infectious botnets and it will only be accessible by criminals. Societies that keep fighting free expression and anonymity on Internet will all but assure the viability of the botnet business. This is a tremendous inefficiency, and I hope that states that persist in it will be left behind due to the cost of fighting this omnipresent and highly organized criminal establishment.

Re:Online gaming (1)

Craigpt (1794888) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031640)

In Korea, it's required that everybody logs onto the net using their SSN. As such, it's easy to block an individual.

post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029406)

1st

ACTA again (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029462)

Dear USA,

if your corporate leaders had not sent all your manufacturing jobs to China and India, your whole future economy would not depend on media production.

Fuck ACTA, and fuck the RIAA and MPAA.

Re:ACTA again (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029756)

Dear USA Consumer,

If you had not shopped at Walmart, big box and huge brand retailers and insisted on cheap vats of everything, you wouldn't have driven all the businesses that tried to keep manufacturing jobs in the US out of business or into the hands of private equity firms (who promptly shipped the jobs to China and India).

Don't blame the corporate leaders. In most cases, they are responding to the absolute force of market pressure. The death of independent retail has sharpened market pressures to the point that manufacturers can comply with the demands of retailers or go out of business. And retailers demand what consumers demand: cheapness at all costs.

It's disgusting. Most people in this country just want to buy the cheapest of everything. I would never eat food from a Costco or Walmart knowing what their buying practices are like.

Re:ACTA again (3, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030096)

You can't honestly be blaming individuals for trying to strecth their meager dollars by shopping at walmart, while at the same time giving a pardon to corporate leaders who are trying to maximize their millions by cutting jobs.

I would never eat food from a Costco or Walmart knowing what their buying practices are like.

I think I speak for the whole internet when I say we are in awe of you, good sir. [slow clap]

Re:ACTA again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34030288)

Those corporations turned meager investment dollars to millions with the same behavior. Blaming one component of a runaway feedback loop for the result is insane.

Re:ACTA again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34030312)

No, he's right. I even remember a campaign ad trying to get people to buy products made in the USA and it failed. So, companies moved out of the country so they can stay competitive. If they stayed here, their prices would be outrageous in comparison and would go out of business. So cutting a ton of jobs and preserving a few, rather than losing all is what happened. I'm sure they didn't mind staying in business or the money they make now.

Re:ACTA again (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031230)

I can.

Re:ACTA again (2, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030128)

I think that's a chicken or egg situation.

I'll admit that typical American consumerism is pretty much out of hand. But it couldn't have happened without the businesses themselves offering these as a way to win over the competition. After all, if they can't make something "better" they will make more of it available at the same price. Competition has to occur for the free market to operate.

That said, I am not a proponent of the free market. I am, instead, a proponent of a regulated market. Individuals and businesses alike will do whatever they can get away with. And they will even feel they are entitled to do so if they do it long enough. In the U.S., we are "entitled" to buy and consume in massive volumes. When we see in other countries that such mass consumerism isn't available, we feel something is wrong or missing. On the other hand, when I have had visitors from other countries, they have adored "Sam's Club" and others for the cheap prices and massive quantities.

You are essentially blaming the U.S. for exercising what is "human nature" and you wouldn't be wrong to do so. This is why I am a proponent of a regulated market. When left to their imagination, people will do whatever they want and whatever they can get away with. Remove regulations that were once in place for a reason, and you get a crashed global economy. Should be no surprise there.

Still, I don't have a Walmart close to me now... I sometimes miss it. The convenience is not easy to resist.

Re:ACTA again (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34030624)

Have the USA hit goods manufactured overseas with huge import taxes. I'm not talking about meager 10% taxes either. If the same thing would cost 100$ to make in the USA and a company his using China to get it for 5$, hit each item with 95$ in import fees.

Obviously the whole "cost if made in USA" would be hard to calculate, but the end result should be that given the costs, it would be insane to have it made anywhere but the USA (or at least Canada or Mexico). Even better would be to drop the whole "media copyrights" bullshit from ACTA and actually set pricing standards, minimum wages, etc. so that America, Europe, Japan and Australia could manufacture goods without being run into the ground by China and India.

Re:ACTA again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031334)

No, it is not a chicken or egg situation, it is a matter of passing the blame.
Unless we are willing to work as hard as the Chinese and for the same wage we can not expect to have a better standard of living.
At the moment we are living on past merits and will probably be able to live a quite nice life.
Sometimes I am glad that I'm not part of the next generation.

Re:ACTA again (1)

CherniyVolk (513591) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030702)

Mod this parent up!

I visited a small town on the east coast. It used to be a prosperous steel production town. Very poor now, the mines are closed, everything has gone to flip. This I do not believe was because of consumer pressure, I believe the shipping of steel production overseas happened long before Wal-Marts relative status.

But the parent here is correct. Fools who shop at Wal-Mart. I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. My wife sometimes wants to go to Wal-Mart because she thinks things there are "cheap". Wal-Mart is one of the largest employers in the United States... how sad. But it's the way the ball bounces. People think "capitalism" is good. People think the goal of "capitalism" is bigger better faster cheaper. People think that they are saving a dollar at Wal-Mart, not realizing due to Double Irish tax fraud, that the dollar they spent at Wal-Mart will never reenter the US again, but be spent overseas somewhere. The media tries to mitigate these horrors by trying to stress the Double Irish tax scheme is for "tax deferment", they only pay taxes when they try to bring the money into the US but that money is NEVER brought back into the United States and stays in overseas financial institutions. This pulls some international corporations tax on international sales down to the single digits! The only tax they spend, is what they make off the American public... it turns out, your dollar really isn't that valuable or relevant compared to global profit margins. American consumerism, is junk investment.

You might hate this, but it's true. What does America create? Seriously... you think Apple created that iPhone? How much of that iPhone do you think was "designed" by American born, citizens working in Cupertino or any Apple owned facility in the United States? Who made your Intel processor; from my understanding, a fair amount of the designing is done in Isreal while a great deal of fabrication is done in Russian plants. How many American workers are hired by Microsoft, how many in the US on Microsoft's payroll are from India? Are you really proud that maybe 1,000 Microsoft executives and upper management who are the highest paid, might be "American"? What of the 88,000 others collecting a pay check?

It might be interesting, next time you are at a store... look at that dollar (or more accurately your debit card before you swipe it). What does it mean? Where did that number come from, where is that number going. What does it really mean.... that number? You don't know, neither does the guy next to you. All you care about, is getting that Dr. Pepper and you have a larger number in a "bank" than the number posted on the "price tag", so that means, algebraically that you can buy it. So you swipe your card... and off you go.

Re:ACTA again (1)

c0d3g33k (102699) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031646)

Nice post. But what is the alternative? Where can I shop that directly counteracts the WalMart behemoth? Is there even such a place?

Re:ACTA again (2, Interesting)

rale, the (659351) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031152)

I would never eat food from a Costco or Walmart knowing what their buying practices are like.

I wont question the statement about Walmart, but is Costco really that bad? I can't remember reading horror stories about them the way I have Walmart, so do you have some examples, or are you just lumping them in because they seem similar?

Re:ACTA again (2, Insightful)

Stregano (1285764) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031180)

All I have to say, is that Kroger individually sliced American cheese sucks ass. Kraft cheese went down to $1 and it was well worth it (it was a sale and not the standard price). How is this not off topic? I got a buttload of cheese for dirt cheap because it was cheap, but the quality was horrible and hurt companies like Kraft.

Dear Kraft,

My Bad. I will buy you from now on.



Dear Kroger,

You cheese sucks ass

So...what happens in the other 1%? (1)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029522)

...in well over 99% of the cases, the ISPs follow the recommendations, and they've never refused to suspend a user's account.

So...what happens in the other 1%?

Re:So...what happens in the other 1%? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029586)

Well over 99% is "durp speak" for 100%.

Re:So...what happens in the other 1%? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029672)

Durp Speak? Care to define it for me - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=durp+speak [urbandictionary.com]

Re:So...what happens in the other 1%? (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030558)

In fact, 99.999...% is 100%.

Re:So...what happens in the other 1%? (2, Informative)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029798)

Though they acted over 99% of the time, just over half of the actions were warnings. Check out the table from the article [imgur.com] . It even shows that 40 recommendations were not complied with (but only from one ISP).

Re:So...what happens in the other 1%? (2, Interesting)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030264)

'well over 99%' means 'we've never heard of a contrary case, but can't be arsed to find out whether or not one actually happened.'

Not quite no notice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029538)

I bet they notice when they lose carrier.

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029560)

In Korea being online is only for old people.

Korea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029570)

Lol kekekekekeke
can i haz teh internets

1 strike my ass.

Off with their heads! (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029580)

Hey, it worked back then [wikipedia.org] , crime rates were much lower. Come on, just be pragmatic.

Re:Off with their heads! (1)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029706)

crime rates were lower (per capita)? ::citation required::

Re:Off with their heads! (1, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029842)

Not true. Crime rates where much higher at times when capital punishment was more popular.

Re:Off with their heads! (4, Insightful)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030020)

I know its a joke, but....

"More Sex is Safer Sex" by Steven Landsburg presents an interesting case on the severity of punishment not being a deterrent.

The chapter on LoJack makes the connection that, raising the penalty on car theft has generally resulted in only minor changes in the actual crime rate. I don't remember what he cited there, but the other side... the LoJack case was impressive. What they saw was that if enough LoJacks were sold in an area to raise the overall chance of being caught by about 1%, it correlated with a 20% decrease in car thefts!

It makes sense. With all but the worst prison gangs, most people don't want to get caught. Getting caught means public records, it means trouble finding jobs, it means having to explain to friends and family, etc. There are lots of reasons to not want to get caught, in fact, the entirety of the penalty (whether its decapitation or a slap on the wrist) is modified by the chance of being caught.

So even if the penalty is decapitation, thats only the penalty of getting caught. If I can reasonably expect to do something and not get caught, then why would the penalty even come into the picture? Its like driving a car with your kid in the back seat. If you get in an accident, your child could be killed. There is a chance of this any and every time that you drive a car for any real distance.

However, few people would say that this horrible and unlikely outcome is reason enough to never put their child in a car and drive. In fact, I have never heard the argument made. In fact, I have never even heard the argument made that one should limit or try to avoid that situation.... even though the "worst outcome" is clearly quite severe... the chances of that outcome happening are considered widely acceptable risk.

-Steve

Darn (4, Funny)

orphiuchus (1146483) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029602)

I thought this was an article about the Koreans finding a way to make baseball watchable.

Re:Darn (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029918)

Stop looking at internet pr0n or we're shutting off your cellular telephone.

It is called a phone booth, people. Do you remember phone booth? Do you know why we had phone booth? Because nobody else wants to hear your idiotic bullsh*t phone call in public!

Re:Darn (1)

poena.dare (306891) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030490)

Thank God Something Like That Can't Happen in Ame

How about electricity? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029614)

If I am reading an illegally-copied paper book by the warm glow of a 60-watt bulb, can the local electric utility be told to disconnect my service?

Re:How about electricity? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029676)

Your income too. (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029850)

They can cut off your electricity, as it's enabling you to use illegal content. They can garnish your wages, as it was earned applying knowledge aquired illegally. They can remove the blood in your veins and sell it, as that was produced using food you purchased with money from your job using knowledge acquired illegally. Next time, PAY for your pr0n, or don't be suggesting the use of use those positions you learned watching it on the job, just stick to whatever the client proposes.

Re:Your income too. (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030356)

They can cut off your electricity, as it's enabling you to use illegal content. They can garnish your wages, as it was earned applying knowledge aquired illegally. They can remove the blood in your veins and sell it, as that was produced using food you purchased with money from your job using knowledge acquired illegally. Next time, PAY for your pr0n

I don't know what you're doing with YOUR porn, but porn usually depletes my precious bodily fluids. It definitely doesn't increase my supply.

Isn't it odd (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029636)

Isn't it odd that "free trade" agreements are never that? The more and more countries stop making their own laws with their elected officials and start offshoring lawmaking to para-governmental organizations with no oversight, the more and more countries slip into tyranny.

"Free trade"? More like "shackled citizens" (3, Insightful)

mykos (1627575) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030190)

I think you hit the nail on the head. They keep tossing this "free" word around as if it provided some kind of freedom. The only people getting anything for "free" or getting any "freedom" out of this are megacorps and the people who run them.

Freedom to write laws and have them rubberstamped by congress.
Freedom to destroy the livelihood of any citizen caught listening to music they weren't allowed to hear.
Freedom to never, ever change their business model and continue selling their products at ever-higher prices and have those prices protected by the government.

Re:Isn't it odd (1)

camperslo (704715) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030476)

It would probably puzzle some in other countries if a bunch of people from the U.S. wrote saying they were going to boycott for their adopting canned laws from the U.S. Of course even the U.S. is a victim of some canned laws. The lobbies write them then start funneling in the cash.

The situation is only worse now that corporations have "free speech" cash funneling rights.
How about we ask the F.C.C. to change the regulation of broadcasters to make all political broadcasts public service time (they can and should run some, but can't take payment). Also, get back to local station ownership where a majority holding percentage of the ownership must live within the primary service contour area.

The concept of broadcasters operating as trustees of the public interest is an important one that we've drifted far from. Let's correct that.

Re:Isn't it odd (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030682)

The concept of broadcasters operating as trustees of the public interest is an important one that we've drifted far from. Let's correct that.

This is an antiquated view and a laughable one at that. Before cable TV and before the internet, you might have a valid point, but today? If you want news you can get it from whatever slant you feel like it thanks to the internet, you can get your news from a republican, democrat, libertarian, green, anarchist, asian, european, mexican, christian, jewish, islamic, etc. slant. Similarly, the decrease in publishing costs mean that paper newspapers are also more affordable than ever to start up and print.

Broadcasters should operate to make a profit just like news agencies, web sites, etc. all do (the profit might not be monetary, but they want to accomplish at least some goal).

This idea that everything was fine and dandy and objective until different regulation happened comes in the view of rose-tinted glasses.

Re:Isn't it odd (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030936)

That's because most 'free trade' agreements are some form of protected trade, as you pointed out not any form of free trade. NAFTA for example is a fair trade agreement. If it was truly a free trade agreement I wouldn't get shafted with duties when I buy from the US.

Re:Isn't it odd (2, Interesting)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030994)

Isn't it odd that "free trade" agreements are never that?

No, its not odd that corporate products are deceptively labeled.

How widespread is piracy in SK? (1)

Saishuuheiki (1657565) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029642)

I know personally I have no idea, so I'll simply pose the question:

How much piracy is it estimated there is in South Korea?
How much effect do they think the law has?

It's very hard to judge a law based on only how many people are affected by it. If they estimate that there are millions of people using pirated software, then 30k banned isn't that much. If they think it's in the hundreds-of-thousands, it is.

How much a law is applied is only half the story; what's important is who it's applied against. If they're only using it against the most serious offenders, then 1 strike isn't that bad.

Re:How widespread is piracy in SK? (2, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029820)

It doesn't matter how many people are affected by it when the law itself is corrupt. Using that logic you can make every law seem reasonable. Lynching blacks isn't bad because out of the million of blacks only a few hundred to a few thousands got lynched. Same logic.

First off, the idea of "piracy" is laughable. Our entire property system is based on the notion of physical property. If we could duplicate anything, cars, food, clean water, gold, etc. we wouldn't need laws to protect our property because we could just duplicate it. IP is not property. "Piracy" is not theft. The very idea that an unaffiliated party would have to disconnect someone because they were doing something "bad" is silly. Should we be deprived of electricity if we get a speeding ticket? Should we have our water shut off if we run a stop sign? Should they suspend trash pickup if we jaywalk? Those make about as much sense as an ISP with no connection to media companies trying to protect property which doesn't even exist.

An unjust law is unjust not because of how few or how many people it punishes but simply by the fact it exists.

Re:How widespread is piracy in SK? (1)

NoSig (1919688) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030112)

Not that I'm defending the practice, but it does make more sense than depriving of water for running a stop sign. It would be like depriving you of a driver's license for running a stop sign, depriving you of electricity for electrocuting someone and suspending trash pickup if you dispose of illegal substances in the trash.

Re:How widespread is piracy in SK? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030208)

Except for all those crimes (well, except for electrocution but I've never heard of anyone being denied electricity because of that) it is being enforced by the people who it directly influences.

The stop signs were put up by the department of transportation which has a role in issuing drivers licensing. Similarly, having hazardous waste in your trash can negatively impact the workers and the dump.

However, someone "pirating" content online has no impact on the network financially. If someone is downloading a 700 MB ISO or a 700 MB movie, the network has the same strain put on it. Because most ISPs have no financial stake in the music/movie "industry" they are not being deprived of any income.

It makes no sense for someone who has no stake in a "contract" to help enforce that "contract".

Re:How widespread is piracy in SK? (1)

NoSig (1919688) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031264)

How about phone companies allowing wiretaps when the crimes under investigation have nothing to do with phones?

Re:How widespread is piracy in SK? (3, Informative)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030950)

I can't answer your question but I will say that the Koreans do things differently. Once I needed to download a .deb to install uucp on my laptop. I got a line and an IP address but all I got was a text file telling me I wasn't allowed to access that file. So I gave the URL and a USB key to a guy with a windows box. Still he got the same message. He removed the USB key and the file downloaded okay to local storage. Then he mounted the usb key and passed the .deb to me.

You see everybody runs IE. The web proxies install a component (ActiveX I suppose) which checks for mounted devices which could be used for piracy or to upload malware. Its stupid and easy to work around but people just seem at accept it as the way things work.

A very good question indeed! (3, Informative)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029656)

Not only did I read the article, I read the comments as well. The first one I read was a rather interesting quesiton: "Did sales of copyrighted materials go up as a result?" After all, in theory, with "reduced piracy" there should be an increase in sales.

But we all know that's not why they are doing this. There are no real losses. Fact is, like all other IP, there is an element of enforce it or forget it. While copyright doesn't actually "go away" when it is not enforced as in the case of trade marks, the more freely the infringement occurs, the less likely people are to respect it.

It would be nice if there were some middle ground, some safe area for file sharers. But there's not just yet. I am a file sharer of content that I don't fear sharing. But where U.S. content of any sort is concerned, I simply don't share. I might download and then disconnect on occasion, but rarely even that. Got too much to lose.

Re:A very good question indeed! (3, Informative)

mellon (7048) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029754)

The thing that I found interesting about TFA was that a total of 31 people in all of Korea were disconnected over the course of a year. Hardly headline news..

Re:A very good question indeed! (1, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030100)

The problem isn't how many people, its the fact that the law is on the books and is being enforced.

Would slavery be any more justified if only 31 people died in a year of the slave trade? Would murder be justified if you only killed 31 people?

Re:A very good question indeed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031488)

The thing that I found interesting about TFA was that a total of 31 people in all of Korea were disconnected over the course of a year. Hardly headline news..

According to TFS, "well over 99%" of cases resulted in disconnections. How do you manage anything between 99% and 100% (97% even) with a data set of 31?

Hilarious (1)

TiggertheMad (556308) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030030)

But we all know that's not why they are doing this. There are no real losses.

Actually, the funny thing is there are losses. Think about it, a serious criminal will just steal/hack/forge ID and get another connection. A normal consumer who just got caught torrenting a song, will be offline forever and UNABLE TO CONSUME DIGITAL MEDIA, lol. The media companies are slowly destroying people's ability to purchase digital goods from them...

Re:A very good question indeed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031148)

But where U.S. content of any sort is concerned, I simply don't share

Bwwahahaha. What a wuss. Share more, you've got many times more chance of being electrocuted than "caught". And even if you are caught, just go postal and shoot as many old media fucktards as you can, it's what I'd do.

Well over 99%? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029774)

"but in well over 99% of the cases, the ISPs follow the recommendations, and they've never refused to suspend a user's account."

So, well over 99% while at the same time never refusing? Isn't that 100%?

Re:Well over 99%? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029872)

100% of cases may not have asked for the account to be suspended.

Re:Well over 99%? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031462)

It's 100% lazy journalism, no source required.

Next Step-- Even Stricter Rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34029870)

The next step is to use the fan in the offender's computer to administer a death penalty by fan death!

Good way to get out of cell phone contract? (1)

Orga (1720130) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029892)

As my phone requires a data plan, and if that data plan is then cancelled due to a violation like this what happens to my contract? Although I realize you could possible face a lawsuit over the content, I'm more curious about the possibility to escape from cell phone contracts.

Re:Good way to get out of cell phone contract? (2, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34029956)

Most of the cell phone contracts I've seen explicitly write it into the contract that if your connection is terminated through your own actions, you're still on the hook for the cash.

This is why due process is important (4, Insightful)

magus_melchior (262681) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030162)

And I don't mean "we looked at the evidence for the defendant and concluded unilaterally that he should be disconnected." I mean the right of the accused to defend oneself in a fair hearing. Due process is a fundamental part of the rule of law, and because it protects the innocent and guilty alike, states absolutely hate its inconvenience and the fact that it lets some of the guilty go free.

South Korea is remarkably forward-thinking in many ways, but apparently this isn't one of them.

Re:This is why due process is important (1)

Orga (1720130) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030862)

ISPs are private entities not a state. Like any business they reserve the right to refuse to do business with any individual for whatever reason they feel like. This is what competition is for.

Re:This is why due process is important (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031106)

This is what competition is for.

Ever look at the competition in your local ISP market?

Re:This is why due process is important (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34031228)

Due process requires someone actually committing a crime. Unless i'm reading this incorrectly users are simply being denied internet access. I'm pretty this is a simple violation of user contract. Similar to how ISP throttle bandwidth or deny access if bandwidth is exceeded. Some US/Canada ISP actually ban users if they exceed bandwidth for consecutive months without due process.

A solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34030238)

I have one word for the internet users of Korea and it is not plastics. The word they need to learn and understand is: SEEDBOX. Look it up on wikipedia and/or search on google.

Slight irony (1)

HBI (604924) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030332)

OK, more than a slight irony, considering you can buy any media you want on the streets of Korea in convenient optical form, with no hassle, and for $1-2 apiece per disc. (depending on where the won stands vis a vis the dollar).

Also, while Korea has excellent bandwidth locally, getting streams and downloads in from remote sources (and nearly everything Western is remote, from Korea) can be difficult. Torrenting from the ROK is not pleasant in most cases.

Transparent Agenda (4, Insightful)

Spazntwich (208070) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030502)

Disclaimer: I'm just a paranoid stoner.

As someone involved with that habit and lifestyle, it's easy to notice the government's quite profitable agenda of socially marginalizing and exploiting parts of the population. Incentivize "proper" social conduct with the various perks of society with tools like credit scores and background checks, using jail as the stick when carrots fail to sufficiently motivate.

The x-strike laws strike me as a particularly transparent attempt to maintain this status quo. The internet has lead to the creation of online communities for just about every "unsavory" hobby, habit, or problem you could think of. The "wrong" people are no longer socially isolated; Legalization movements are making record progress; Government is losing control.

Somewhere at the top, someone finally realized the decentralized nature of the internet means standard models of exercising authority fall short. How to reassert control? Convince society of the necessity of elevating the internet to the level of the "gated community home, SUV, and health insurance," you know, out of the hands of those filthy subhumans who live outside the walls.

Copyright makes sense as the first step. Everyone already agrees on the vital role companies like the RIAA play in our economy, so we must take the privilege of internet from those who dare jeopardize its profits. Then, once it's socially acceptable to deny someone "the internet" for copyright violations, the floodgates are opened to deny it to anyone who displeases the powers that be. Internet privilege denial will become as standard a punishment as revoking a teen's driver's license is for almost any infraction these days.

"But Spazntwich," you say,"The internet is ubiquitous! You can't possibly prevent someone from getting on the internet!"
Of course you can't. Just like the government can't even keep drugs out of its own prisons. Ineffectiveness of a law has never been a reason to overturn one.

The internet's universal nature plays right into their hands. Any infraction, intentional or otherwise (remember citizen, ignorance is never an excuse!), will be a violation of probation/parole and place one back at the mercy of the authorities. Right where they want you.

Re:Transparent Agenda (1)

rock_climbing_guy (630276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030854)

wish i had mod points today

How long before the RAP are targetted? (1)

redelm (54142) | more than 3 years ago | (#34030538)

One problem with hairtriggers is false positives. I fully expect the aggrieved Korean hackers to take full retaliation against the rich-and-powerful (RAP) in their society.

How about simple blind spew of trigger packets/seqs with spoofed IPsrc (set to easily guessable RAP home/biz addrs)? Botnet optional. Social DoS. After a few dozen of these, the ISPs might get a clue. Or maybe not, I think a a metric clue-by-four is somewhat larger.

Too far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34030760)

This is the modern day equivalent of banning a person from using books for life, for making a photocopy. What about giving a friend a mixtape?

Wait what? (1)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031012)

You said South Korea, right?

ISPs still deciding party (1)

pseudochaos (1014063) | more than 3 years ago | (#34031074)

Once the ISPs start losing a significant portion of their revenue stream, they'll think twice about arbitrarily banning paying customers from their service.
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