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Fedora 14 Released and Reviewed — Advanced, and Not For Wimps

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the new-and-shiny dept.

Open Source 200

Several readers have sent word that Fedora 14, codenamed Laughlin, has been released. A brief listing of the major changes has been posted, and the download is available at the Fedora project's site. Reader jfruhlinger points out a quick review of the new version, saying, "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood — arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? Steven Vaughan-Nichols has tested out Fedora 14, and that was how it went. No Ubuntu-style handholding, but some powerful new features."

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In Some Ways It Still Is (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104002)

Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ...

Oh, it still is like that in some respects [wikipedia.org] .

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (5, Funny)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104090)

"Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ..."

Oh, it still is like that in some respects [wikipedia.org].

Dude, have you been celibate all this time?

They sent out a memo years ago saying geeks were allowed to get laid. Since at least Y2K as I recall we're been encouraged to go forth and get busy (I think that was the exact wording).

Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104208)

Man, you need to check in to a female-slot more often. :-P

There, fixed that for you.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (4, Funny)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104258)

"Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ..."

Oh, it still is like that in some respects [wikipedia.org].

Dude, have you been celibate all this time?

They sent out a memo years ago saying geeks were allowed to get laid. Since at least Y2K as I recall we're been encouraged to go forth and get busy (I think that was the exact wording).

Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

Those who have stayed true to the faith will recognize this as false. Cast out gstoddart as he is unclean and shall surely lead us unto damnation!

Pray with me brothers! Pray that we may keep our hand built machines clean from this filth of lust and commercial software!

Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (5, Funny)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104368)

Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

Speaking of unclean and sure to lead us to damnation. ;-)

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (2)

tsalmark (1265778) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104918)

O where for art mine mod points when they are dost needed most.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (4, Funny)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105916)

Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

Speaking of unclean and sure to lead us to damnation. ;-)

Give us this day our daily garlic pizza, and deliver us from showering, amen.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (2)

morgauxo (974071) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105390)

Celibate huh... Well we know what filth covers things built with your hands then...

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104412)

Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

... We have mail slots?

Why couldn't they just send an email...

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (4, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104474)

... We have mail slots?

Why couldn't they just send an email...

Check your spam folder. I think it was titled "Hot Russian Girls Await You".

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104618)

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104614)

Dude, have you been celibate all this time?

They sent out a memo years ago saying geeks were allowed to get laid. Since at least Y2K as I recall we're been encouraged to go forth and get busy (I think that was the exact wording).

Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

It doesn't count if it's your right hand.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105300)

It doesn't count if it's your right hand.

Than I'm in the clear, I use my left hand.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105856)

... but I use my left hand for typing.

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104508)

But not from choice in your case ...

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is - vintage?? (3, Funny)

miknix (1047580) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105452)

From TFA:

This 2008-vintage notebook is powered by a 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor

My server is powered by a Athlon64 3400+ you insensitive clod!

Re:In Some Ways It Still Is - vintage?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105828)

From TFA:

This 2008-vintage notebook is powered by a 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor

My server is powered by a Athlon64 3400+ you insensitive clod!

"2008-Vintage" just means it was made in 2008 [merriam-webster.com] .

Alternative definitions are fun!

KDE (5, Insightful)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104018)

I've always used KDE with RedHat/Fedora. He needs more friends that run Fedora.

Re:KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104092)

Completely offtopic in every way, but after reading your sig, I'm off to go buy the new choir cd....thanks!

Re:KDE (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104388)

It's solid. They've been releasing remixes and stuff done by others - so it's also worth checking out their site or facebook page.

Re:KDE (1)

Gazzonyx (982402) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104450)

FTFA

[...] The full distribution also includes the newest version of the KDE desktop, KDE 4.5.2, but I'll be darned if I ever met a Fedora user who used KDE. Fedora has long been known as the GNOME's user GNOME Linux of choice. [...]

Re:KDE (1)

Gazzonyx (982402) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104932)

Just realized that parent was saying his post was off topic, not GP. Sorry, cold medicine. :)

Re:KDE (3, Insightful)

Nimloth (704789) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104270)

Same here. KDE and XFCE on Fedora. No Gnome.

Re:KDE (4, Interesting)

BassMan449 (1356143) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104306)

I thought the exact same thing. I've first used Fedora Core since 3 and almost immediately switched from GNOME to KDE. Especially now I would definitely take KDE 4.2+ over any version of GNOME.

KDE users usually run SUSE, historically (1)

Gazzonyx (982402) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104440)

Yeah, I read that line and thought at first "well, _I_ use Fedora with KDE". After reflecting for a bit, I realized that in the past KDE users (I got the KDE habit from Slackware) mostly went for a SUSE (also originally Slack-based) install. I always get the Fedora KDE install, but it's never seeded as well as the Fedora proper torrent.

mandrake linux...mandriva (1)

chronoss2010 (1825454) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105480)

BIG on KDE use and in its hey day the best linux desktop

Wanker (5, Informative)

chill (34294) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104066)

Reading the comments to that blog shows he reviewed a Beta, not the release. Every single bug he said he ran into had been fixed before the release.

Re:Wanker (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104164)

Yeah, I saw that too. And then he ends the review with "they need more quality assurance". Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

Re:Wanker (5, Funny)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104430)

Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

I'll tell you what it means:

Beta (noun): Greek letter used to denote the last build of software before management decides to ship the product anyway.

You've obviously never shipped code. ;-)

Re:Wanker (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105698)

Funny but I remember when we did alpha, beta, and Gamma releases.
Alpha was internal testing only.
Beta was testing outside the company.
Gamma was feature and UI complete only bug fixes.
Then you did release.

Re:Wanker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105060)

Like who, Google?

Re:Wanker (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105170)

Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

Very few people do anymore, what with Google releasing all of their products with the "Beta" label and never, ever releasing a production version of anything ;)

Re:Wanker (2, Insightful)

micheas (231635) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105800)

Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

Very few people do anymore, what with Google releasing all of their products with the "Beta" label and never, ever releasing a production version of anything ;)

IIRC, Google's definition of beta is "not showing a profit"

Re:Wanker (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104236)

To give him what he's due; his article did mention that it was a Beta and he had hope for quick fixes. It's the slashdot summary which completely missed that.

Re:Wanker (5, Informative)

ak3ldama (554026) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104384)

The only indication that it is beta is that he released his review before Fedora 14 was actually released! First paragraph:

That's not to say that the newest version of Fedora, Fedora 14 Laughlin, is hard to use. It's not. But, if you need a lot of handholding as you explore Linux, I think you'll be better off with Ubuntu.

Though later he says:

There is a fix on the way for this problem, but it still wasn't in the late beta software I was trying out.

The tags at the top do not mention it as beta, nor does the title. That is far from being genuine... I think this article is pure trash personally. I saw it yesterday in the /. firehose where it belonged. I can not believe it made the front page. Running around installing the latest linux distro (pre-release at that!) in a virtual machine is not news worthy and makes for junk journalism.

Re:Wanker (3, Informative)

HeckRuler (1369601) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104400)

Well ok, but is the gist still correct? Is Fedora 14 for the elite uber-admins? While I'd like to be the sort of person who knows his box back and forth, I'd also like to just plug in [wireless-card/mic/spleunky/starcraft2/maptool/softwareRaid/Audacity/whatnot] and simply have it work. Those don't exactly go hand in hand. You know when you're on a date and you go to play a movie, but the sound isn't working and you try to fix it and she walks off around the point you start opening man pages?
Yeah, I've been there and I don't particularly want to go back.

Re:Wanker (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105980)

It's OK, XKCD [xkcd.com] loves you.

Re:Wanker (1)

sjvn (11568) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105184)

Actually, they were not fixed in the RC. Sorry, they weren't.

hmmmm (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104074)

"Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood"

Yeah, i do, and that's why linux is having a hard time converting people because most of the community is desperately trying to keep it that way. And before you call me a windows fanboy, I run it all, win7, mac, several flavors of linux.

Re:hmmmm (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104160)

You must be new here, Windows fanboy

Re:hmmmm (4, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104222)

I run it all, win7, mac, several flavors of linux.

Watch it polytheist, the Solders of the One will mod bomb you.

Re:hmmmm (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104328)

I don't know if you misspelled "Soldiers", but "Solders" is actually way funnier. Well done.

Re:hmmmm (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105626)

So? I can make the same claim.

Running both Windows 7 and MacOS gives me a lot of appreciation for what the Linux development community has accomplished.

Having played with the competition, I have no interest in it.

Re:hmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104374)

And honestly, why *shouldn't* we keep it that way? Anyone who wants a hand-holding mass market OS has several available. There is benefit in having an OS designed by experts, for experts, who want to completely control their own hardware.

We've even dumbed down big chunks of Linux to appeal to the LCD. Must we do this to *everything*? I actually like running a niche OS. Makes it easier to sail under the malware radar.

Re:hmmmm (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104466)

Take heart! There are plenty of niche OS's left!

Re:hmmmm (2, Insightful)

Jimmy King (828214) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104792)

The really great thing about these "dumbed down" Linux distros is that you still have the option to go tweak stuff as you need, build packages from source with specific options, etc. The "dumbing down" of Linux hasn't removed the flexibility, it's just made it so that more of it "just works" so that you can spend your time tweaking the stuff that truly needs it and actually using your machine.

Re:hmmmm (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105642)

It's like jailbreaking an iPhone but without the jailbreaking part...

Re:hmmmm (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34106128)

Yeah, anyone who is upset at how "dumbed down" something like Ubuntu is, actually is showing how dumb they are.. though to be honest I've stopped really needing to do much tweaking in Ubuntu since the 2009 releases. Pretty much everything I want is in the repositories, down to every last Perl module..

Re:hmmmm (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105590)

> Yeah, i do, and that's why linux is having a hard time converting people
> because most of the community is desperately trying to keep it that way.
> And before you call me a windows fanboy, I run it all, win7, mac, several
> flavors of linux.

"Most of the community" is doing nothing of the sort.

The biggest problem people have is getting over the idea that they actually have a choice.

Re:hmmmm (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105722)

It was also when only the brave would try to do real work with it. Cutting edge is okay to play with at home. I will take Centos or Ubuntu Server for production systems thank you.
Fedora is for the brave of heart and abundance of free time.

Handholding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104082)

Handholding and bleeding-edge are mutually exclusive? Just wait until someone creates the Linux distro that stomps on your face at boot and calls you a moron. Imagine how bleeding edge that would be!

Re:Handholding (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104788)

I don't want anything bleeding to hold my hand, least of all an edge.

Authentication (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104086)

ldap.conf/krb5.conf,nscd - sssd.conf - nslcd.conf

I wish they would just stick with an authentication provider.

Probably not worth your time. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104100)

A review by the baboon who is Steven Vaughan-Nichols, also going by the name of "Cyber Cynic", is most probably not worth your time. The guy's clueless, much like the incompetent bunch of would-be experts (some writers excluded) over at the new LF-operated linux.com.

Ignore link Steven Vaughan reviewed the BETA!!! (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104132)

He reviewed the Beta version of F14!!! for crying out loud!!! Really thought that Slashdot was more responsible than this.

Re:Ignore link Steven Vaughan reviewed the BETA!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105422)

Really thought that Slashdot was more responsible than this.

You, err, I must be new here.

Re:Ignore link Steven Vaughan reviewed the BETA!!! (1)

Lord_Byron (13168) | more than 3 years ago | (#34106040)

This was a beta of the F-14?!? Talk about old news; that plane entered operational status in, what, 1974 and is now retired, at least by the US.

I Question the Timing (1, Funny)

TechnoJoe (1173761) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104144)

Really? Today? US Election Day.

What secrets are we going to find in the code that we should have known about sooner? It looks like this is just another thing the politicians were trying to hold back so we didn't know about their shenanigans until it was too late.

Review was BS (3, Informative)

chrisj_0 (825246) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104148)

he reviewed the Beta and all the problems he listed are fixed. Read the comments at the end of TFA.

It is a review of the Beta release, (1)

Peter H.S. (38077) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104162)

not the final release of Fedora 14. Fedora is still an excellent KDE distro, despite the fact that RedHat is a strong Gnome supporter.

--
Regards

Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site (2, Informative)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104192)

The new fedoraproject.org site uses 4 icons (freedom, friends, features, first) in the same colors as the Windows logo that can be pieced together like the Windows icon. Kind of odd.

Re:Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site (0)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104610)

Troll? My post is strictly factual, check it out for yourselves.

Re:Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site (4, Interesting)

mattdm (1931) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105690)

Okay, fine -- I'll post to undo the moderation.

It's four colors, but they're four completely different colors in completely different shapes. The MS Windows logo has red-orange, green, blue, and yellow, in different window-pane-like configurations depending on version. (In older versions, the orange was more red, and the blue and green were darker -- clearly the four perceptual primary colors.)

The Fedora glyphs are a navy blue, a magenta-tinged pink, definitely orange, and bright green. They're decidedly off-primary, and not in the same way that the Windows 7 and other recent MS logos are.

If you think I'm being pedantic, look at them actually side-by-side and you'll see that the comparison is ridiculous.

Surprisingly, Microsoft doesn't actually own the concept of using four colors for a logo. It reminds me of this silliness [labnol.org] . So yeah, I thought you were trolling. And I'll give you a half apology, because even if you weren't trolling, it's pretty silly.

Re:Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site (1)

Intron (870560) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105128)

hmm. green, orange, red, blue - correct

But Fedora is friendly rounded hippie shapes like guitar pics, Windows uses harsh, wavy squares like shards of glass. See the difference?

Re:Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105986)

The new fedoraproject.org site uses 4 icons (freedom, friends, features, first) in the same colors as the Windows logo

They are not in the same shades as the windows logo, they are only the same "color" on a loose assessment.

that can be pieced together like the Windows icon.

For very loose values of "like the Windows icon". They are four icons that could (as could any four icons) be placed in a 2x2 grid, but if you do that, it won't look like the Windows icon, because the four icons on the same shapes as the colored regions in the Windows icon.

Kind of odd.

Its actually not really that odd that the display of four colored icons would chose colors that are shades of red, yellow, green, and blue. (For an explanation, see the color opponent process theory.)

 

The bad old days (2, Interesting)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104362)

"Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood — arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? Steven Vaughan-Nichols has tested out Fedora 14, and that was how it went. No Ubuntu-style handholding, but some powerful new features."

Thankfully, I missed those days (in general) until I started playing with LXDE & E17. In fact, the main reason I use a ubuntu derivative now over Fedora is that it worked with a minimum of fuss. As a newbie, I was HAPPY for the handholding.

Re:The bad old days (1)

martas (1439879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104516)

a thousand times, ditto! i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel. trust me, there are a lot of people out there who feel exactly the same way. thanks, ubuntu, for giving people like me such a wonderful product!

Re:The bad old days (4, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104634)

a thousand times, ditto! i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel. trust me, there are a lot of people out there who feel exactly the same way.

Well, it's like changing a tire, writing your own interrupt handlers, or hand-optimizing memory usage.

It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process. And, once you've done it, you will never want to do it again. Those who sidestep the process never really understand and live in fear of it.

Those who understand the process know what it's all about, and just mostly call AAA, install Ubuntu, or add more memory thereafter -- secure in the knowledge that if they really had to, they could probably muddle their way through it. But, in reality, it's a task best left for someone else and is mostly a waste of time. ;-)

Re:The bad old days (2, Insightful)

ktappe (747125) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105080)

i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel.

Well, it's like changing a tire, writing your own interrupt handlers, or hand-optimizing memory usage.

It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process. And, once you've done it, you will never want to do it again.

It's not at all clear to me why everyone should compile a kernel at least once. Yes, I can do it if necessary but I see no reason why, especially with all the Linux evangelists trying to get it on every desktop, they feel the average Joe should ever know what compiling is let alone have to do it to an entire OS. You use a fork everyday but is really beneficial to know how to forge one? You write or print on paper regularly but should you have to know how to fell a tree and turn it into wood pulp? It seems ridiculous to expect everyone to know everything. Differentiation of information and skillsets is how a society works. Let OS geeks compile operating systems while the rest of us learn how to make them do things kernel developers never thought of.

Re:The bad old days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105460)

But, in reality, it's a task best left for someone else and is mostly a waste of time.

This. Exactly.

Admittedly, I'm a noob when it comes to Linux. However, I have had to compile a few kernels as well as things like wifi drivers, and I never ever want to do it again. In fact, I refuse to. It does nothing for the end user. At the end of it all, I don't REALLY understand it anymore than I did before I had to do those things. In fact all I remember about it was "why did I have to do that again?". It can get pretty ridiculous and I certainly don't want to go through recompiling after an upgrade. Not to mention the fact that recompiling after an upgrade doesn't always work.

What I wind up doing these days is just switching to a different distro that has/does what I want. If I can't find it or do it fairly easily, I use Windows.

Let's face it, for the majority of users, most of the time rolling your own is a kludge.

I still have two Windows installs at home (one desktop, one server) because of this. Yes, I *could* get these functions to work on Linux, but how long would it take? How much google circling am I going to have to do? How many problems down the road am I willing to take on? Sometimes it just isn't worth it to take on these things.

Re:The bad old days (2, Insightful)

roothog (635998) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105668)

It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process.

I'm a little confused. What aspect of the process requires understanding?

Compiling a kernel is:
- make menuconfig
- make && make modules_install
- mv bzImage /boot
- emacs /boot/grub/grub.conf

Maybe I'm just jaded, but I'm missing how this is enlightening and/or instructive. Why is it useful for people to know these steps?

Re:The bad old days (4, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104750)

IME, there are three sorts of Linux users.

The Newbie - uses Ubuntu or something similar - doesn't want to compile anything, just wants something other than Windows with the minimum extra effort.

If you go back in time to before Ubuntu existed, this sort of person was very rare and often graduated to "enthusiast" level quite quickly.

The Enthusiast - uses the unstable, beta stream of a well-known distribution or Gentoo, happy to compile whatever's necessary and will put up with a hell of a lot. For most outsiders, watching these people is like seeing someone in an abusive relationship. You know it doesn't have to be like that, you know they're setting themselves up for punishment but the only person who can pull them out of it is themselves.

The Professional - uses Debian, CentOS or RHEL. Has no intention of wasting time compiling stuff, and wants to be able to get as many packages as possible without any compiling. Is not afraid of compiling if strictly necessary. May have a need to run commercial package(s) which are only supported on these distributions. Usually reached this point having come from some other Unix or bubbled up from the Enthusiast.

Re:The bad old days (2, Interesting)

martas (1439879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104930)

Hm, it seems I don't fit your taxonomy. I've used Ubuntu for several years now as my primary OS, and, having been a CS student for some of that time, I don't consider myself a newbie; I've gotten my hands dirty trying to compile at least a few not-so-well-managed projects from source (though never the kernel). I don't consider myself what you call an "enthusiast" either - I have no interest in intentionally using unstable code. That leaves "professional", but, as people like you would probably be very quick to agree, I'd never dare call myself that until I've gotten the kernel to compile on, say, some very recently released machine, and used ndiswrapper to get wireless working, bla bla, which I haven't done.

So, I guess I'm the exception that proves that your view of what every linux user should be like is correct?

Re:The bad old days (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105414)

Well, to be fair there are exceptions to every rule - everyone everywhere in the world would agree with me on that one!

I neglected an extra in the "Professional" category, BTW, which I realised as soon as I posted - an IT professional who uses Linux on their desktop as a general working environment - almost invariably chooses Ubuntu AFAICT.

Re:The bad old days (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105406)

Funny, but, well...meh.

I started on Slackware (7.1), graduated to Gentoo, and now use a mix of Slackware, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian machines. They all have their advantages. I like Gentoo on servers because you can make it as streamlined as you want. I like Ubuntu on laptops because wireless just works and my laptops are just tools. I'll always have a soft spot for Slack because it was a great way to learn Linux, but I like the fact that with Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo, I don't have to keep reinstalling the entire OS to upgrade to a new release* nor do I need to figure out dependencies by hand**. I've used CentOS and RHEL, but I'm not real crazy about them just because they are kind of like Apple: they are very flexible and customizable, as long as you want to do it the Apple way. I tend to be more of a minimalist; RHEL tends to throw in the kitchen sink.

*I've heard Slackware now includes an update tool, but I stopped using Slack at 9.1, so I've never used it. If so, that's a good thing.

**Ditto for the dependency checking. The "package manager" as of 9.1 was rudimentary at best; I think there's a better package manager now, but again, I've never used it.

Re:The bad old days (2, Insightful)

roothog (635998) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105478)

You're missing a category: People who were enthusiasts for a lot of years and got burned out trying to keep their computers running. I run Ubuntu now.

Re:The bad old days (1)

FictionPimp (712802) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105556)

I went from debian to gentoo to ubuntu to osx and now back to ubuntu.

What am I?

Re:The bad old days (1)

Late Adopter (1492849) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105918)

Is there room for a Professional-Enthusiast hybrid? I.e. left Gentoo for Debian because he values his time, but uses the unstable branch because he values having up-to-date packages.

Re:The bad old days (1)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105200)

i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel

I started dual-booting DOS/Linux several years before Fedora Core 1 came out, with RedHat. Back then, the only way to upgrade your kernel was to download the source on Dial-Up, compile it, install it and edit LILO to reflect it. It wasn't that hard, actually, although as time went on, there were more and more options to select when you configured the makefile. Now, you simply let yum, apt-get or whatever package manager your distro uses download and install a pre-compiled kernel along with whatever updates there happen to be. No fuss, no muss, no bother, just let it install, then reboot into the new kernel and Bjorn Stronginthearm's your uncle!

Re:The bad old days (1)

element-o.p. (939033) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105262)

It's not that hard; it's just tedious because you rarely get the kernel exactly right the first time...or even the tenth. And once you get the right .config for your hardware, make sure you save it, because you don't want to have to figure it out again next time.

Re:The bad old days (1)

martas (1439879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105370)

heh, well, the point i was trying to make is that since i can avoid it, i will, not that it's so nut-crushingly hard that i'd never do it... thanks for the pointer regarding saving the .config file though, i'll keep it in mind just in case.

Re:The bad old days (1)

Lord_Byron (13168) | more than 3 years ago | (#34106104)

Hell, I'm not a newbie, I'm a crusty old UNIX guy* with experience in multiple commercial Unicies, *BSD*, and came fairly late to Linux (by which I mean pre-Fedora Redhat). And I don't want to hand-compile a kernel either! Been there, done that, now I just want the bloody thing to work so I can do something more interesting.

*There are people who've been at it plenty longer than me, no doubt.

Re:The bad old days (1)

martas (1439879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34106170)

So, the plural of unix in unicies? Thank you my Lord [Byron], I learned something useful from /. today thanks to you!

Advanced, and Not For Wimps (0, Troll)

mschaffer (97223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104366)

AKA not polished, not ready for prime time, and definitely not for your grandma (unless she is a script-granny).

Re:Advanced, and Not For Wimps (1)

Quantus347 (1220456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104444)

AKA not polished, not ready for prime time, and definitely not for your grandma (unless she is a script-granny).

You know, Id like to meet this "Script0Granny" you speak of. That sounds like an interesting old bitty.

Re:Advanced, and Not For Wimps (2, Informative)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104678)

You know, Id like to meet this "Script0Granny" you speak of. That sounds like an interesting old bitty.

Her name was Rear Admiral Grace Hopper [wikipedia.org] , and I bet she's still giving them hell someplace. =)

There have been others, I'm sure. But none quite like her.

arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? (4, Insightful)

Jimmy King (828214) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104402)

Sure, I remember those days. Now that I use Linux for real work, with live production servers, and not just screwing around in my bedroom I don't have time for that nonsense. I greatly prefer the more common state of things where the mostly automated configuration is probably pretty close to what I need, but I still have the option to make use of that arcane knowledge to tweak things if I need/want to.

Don't get me wrong, that kind of distro still has its place in the world, but it shouldn't be the standard way of things.

Nerds!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34104768)

When I screw around in my bedroom, I don't need Linux to perform. See, that is your problem. I bet you still belong to the Brotherhood of Linux Virgins.

Re:Nerds!!! (1)

Jimmy King (828214) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104924)

When I screw around in your bedroom I don't need your mom to perform, but it's better when she does.

Re:Nerds!!! (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105694)

Something like MythTV is very handy in the bedroom when you are "screwing around". It's a great way to set the mood. Then again, any HTPC setup is.

Terrible review (5, Insightful)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 3 years ago | (#34104862)

Half the article describes his test laptop and the theme he used. Then he didn't get USB3 to work, and suggested you overwrite your modules file (hint: use 2 > characters, not one). Then he complained about the CD burning program. Who burns CDs anymore?

Nothing about SELinux, nothing about filesystems, nothing about updated packages like SSH, Postfix, Bind, or anything.

a better article summary: "Beta Fedora makes a weak desktop, and I didn't bother to try any of the cool features of Linux"

Re:Terrible review (1)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105256)

Technically, he suggested that you overwrite your xhci.conf file, not your modules file. Do you know for a fact that it's incorrect advice to solve the problem he's experienced? Sometimes you *do* want to overwrite the file rather than appending.

If no one burns CDs anymore, then it seems that they should omit Brasero entirely, rather than including a version that crashes.

In any case, since you asked, I still burn CD's and DVD's from time to time. My car stereo doesn't have an aux jack or USB port so CD-ROMs are the best way to listen to music in my car. Likewise, I don't want to hook a computer up to my TV, so DVD's are the best way to watch movies on the big TV.

Re:Terrible review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105816)

Ignoring the fact that this review is of a beta and thus is pretty much invalid ...

This line is the big problem with Open Source people ....

Then he complained about the CD burning program. Who burns CDs anymore?

So because you don't burn CD's, no one else should have the ability or expect it to just work?

back in the day (1)

nimbius (983462) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105082)

it was archaic and priestly and weeeee liked it that way!

now if you'll excuse me i cant wait to download the latest fedora, install the minimal package set, and curl the rest of the
comments in this article for later fist-shaking critique.

bad impression (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105166)

Fedora uses the most up-to-date free software available. But even this is not enough. I have new laptop HP Touchsmart TM2 and just tried Fedora 14. The impression was bad, compared to my old HP Pavilion dv4000. Hybrid graphics (intel/ati) doesn't work at all (only external display works), with two fingers synaptic touchpad goes mad, broadcom 4312 wireless doesn't work (this I already solved). I have linux experience since Redhat 1 and probably solve other issues quite soon. I think, beginner will be in quite helpless situation. For example, latest OpenSuse worked out-of-the-box with radeon and 3D enabled (external display wasn't necessary), the only issue was with synaptic. More than a year old slax had no the touchpad problem.

Re:bad impression (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105712)

I've always thought of Fedora as the beta version of the Linux you use when you need to pay for Oracle support.

I've never expected it to be the Redhat's answer to Ubuntu. Dunno if that's reasonable or not.

Another great release (3, Insightful)

MSG (12810) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105332)

Can we get over the quality of the review and celebrate the release of Fedora 14, already? I've been running it since the beta release, and I'm very happy with it. Fedora 14 is another great release by a group of people who are dedicated to Free Software!

Re:Another great release (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34106150)

Fedora 14 will be remembered as the last release before they really facefuck you with a combination of systemd and GNOME 3.0.

systemd is needed because how else can you ensure pulseaudio is loaded first? Obviously you need to replace the init system!

Besides adding more useless background daemons over the years, gobject-introspection now allows parts of gnome to be re-written in steaming piles of javascript. The trouble with compiled languages like C or C++ was that the developers had to get the code to actually compile. But with gobject-introspection, you can just dump a pile of javascript onto the users, and leave it to rot. But it's much better because it's powered by webkit!

To put it in a car analogy, Fedora 14 is the last stretch of road before you drive off a cliff, and plunge screaming to your death.

Bad Review - IMHO (1)

glebovitz (202712) | more than 3 years ago | (#34105676)

Steven Vaughn-Nichols did his review based on an install in VirtualBox. This is not very useful as most desktop distros need some tweaking before they run well in a virtual environment. I am running Fedora 13 and Ubuntu 10.04 and they both required work to get them working well in VirtualBox. It is also not clear whether he tested the Beta or the Final RC1 release. Of course, then naming scheme is incredibly difficult to follow, so I am not surprised he may have gotten that wrong.

Arcane Knowledge.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34105680)

Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood — arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards?
Arcane knowledge aint for priests but for mages, just sayin...

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