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Soviet Image Editing Tool From 1987

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the airbrushing-is-so-stalinist-1940s dept.

Graphics 146

nacturation writes "Three years before Photoshop 1.0 was released, computer engineers in the USSR were already retouching photographs using some surprisingly advanced technology. A video shows how the Soviets went about restoring damaged images with the help of rotary scanners, magnetic tape, and trackballs. No word on whether this technology was used to fake moon landings or put missiles in Cuba." Photo manipulation in the USSR (and elsewhere) had a pretty good jump on computers, though.

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BT, DT (3, Interesting)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127668)

I'm pretty sure I was cutting and pasting and cropping and rotating images on uVAXen a couple of years before this.

Re:BT, DT (1)

motorhead (82353) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127816)

Useful for adding and deleting bolsheviks

the real story (5, Funny)

mschaffer (97223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128050)

The real story is that the Soviets had clip art collections that made their job easier. This was years before clip-art was widely used in the West.
People doctoring photos could choose from the "Still Popular Heroes of the Bolshevik Revolution" as well as "Accepted Images of our Beloved Leaders: Lenin through Gorbachev".
What was little known at the time is that if you bought both sets, you would also get a free set "Communist Leaders of the world". This set had flattering pictures of Chaiman Mao, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevera.

Re:the real story (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128564)

Collect 'em all!

Collect 'em all! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129850)

Before they collect you.

Re:the real story (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129888)

Time-Life Clip Art?

Re:BT, DT (1)

Suki I (1546431) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127870)

I'm pretty sure I was cutting and pasting and cropping and rotating images on uVAXen a couple of years before this.

So you are outing yourself as part of the conspiracy?

Re:BT, DT (2, Funny)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128642)

sounds more like he's outing himself as old.

Re:BT, DT (1)

An ominous Cow art (320322) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129626)

If his account was on kgbvax, then yes :-).

Re:BT, DT (1)

JustFisher (1123293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127982)

do you remember the resolution and color depth?

Re:BT, DT (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128072)

Deluxe Paint preceded Photoshop 1.0 by 5 years...

What about Quantel? (4, Informative)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128608)

Quantel Paintbox beats them both, it was first launched in 1981!

Quantel sued two companies, one of them being Adobe but didn't win the Adobe case, largely due to the existance of Superpaint, who's author testified in the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantel_Paintbox [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpaint [wikipedia.org]

Re:BT, DT (4, Funny)

the_womble (580291) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130518)

I don't believe it. Next you will try to tell me that Microsoft did not invent spreadsheets word-processors and windowing OSes.

In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (5, Informative)

Elixon (832904) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128436)

One of the Russian comments points out that the software is in fact French PERICOLOR-1000 translated to Russian.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (3, Interesting)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128802)

Didn't the Russians pretty much steal everything computer-related from the Western countries at that time?

The most famous software product from Russia, Tetris, was originally developed on a russian-made DEC PDP-11 clone.

I also remember reading that pretty much all their mainframes were IBM OS-3xx clones.

I'm sure they had sufficient skilled engineers in Russia to do it themselves, but why pay somebody to invent it, if you don't have to respect copyrights and patents and can just steal it?

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129028)

I find that the tasks of reverse-engineering an IBM OS-3xx AND producing a working clone out of the reverse engineering results would be orders of mangnitude more laborous than just making a computer from scratch.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129730)

It went both ways. I know a guy who worked on spy satellites for the Americans during that era. In one project, the contractor required a metal plate to be drilled with zillions (technical term) of microscopic holes. For what usage, I don't know and he won't say. What he will say is that the technology to drill the holes wasn't available in the United States. So they shipped the plate to a Russian firm who had a laser driller with the required capability, of course shunting it through dozens of shell corporations, third world countries, and who knows what else. The Russian took the plate and drilled it, then sent it back through the same convoluted path to the Americans, who then took it, installed it in their satellite and proceeded to use it to spy on the Russians. Good times.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (2, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130022)

It was more complex.

Russia had its own pretty advanced computer technology till 70-s. BESM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BESM [wikipedia.org] ) computers were on par with Western Bloc models and there were original developments like Setun' computer with ternary arithmetic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun [wikipedia.org] ).

Then came a 'bright' idea to partner with IBM. USSR actually paid for licenses for IBM hardware (IBM software was probably free at that time) so it was not pure piracy.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (3, Informative)

estestvoispytatel (1091583) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130154)

Up to mid-60s there was some quite good domestic computers in the USSR, but almost all of the developing teams (spare some military projects) were switched to, well, copying of the three unified systems from the West, mainly because Politburo's dumbfucks were educated not enough to effectively direct and support R&D. You know, command economy has no natural feedback and very skewed competition.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (5, Funny)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130474)

Didn't the Russians pretty much steal everything computer-related from the Western countries at that time?

Well we stole Tetris and made billions on it, so it all worked out in the end.

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (1)

galanom (1021665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130842)

yeah, bad guys, no respect to patents!!!

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34130910)

They were just ahead of the curve on the free software movement.

BTW, engineer Ivan had no incentive to create it when engineer Boris could get a dacha by just copying it (or if needed reverse engineer it.)

Re:In fact it is French PERICOLOR-1000 Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129712)

As I was living in former soviet block that could be true. They copied western technology on large scale adding stamp "made in USSR"

Re:BT, DT (1)

andyi (959526) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128646)

I worked on the 3M Color Workstation in 1985 (I think). It used custom graphics processing hardware from a company out of Pasadena. I forget their name. It predated PS and was totally crushed once Photoshop added color support. I remember the laser scanner and workstations looking a lot like the ones in the video.

I would assume the Chinese had the lead in that (1)

e065c8515d206cb0e190 (1785896) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127684)

And I'm not even joking. Aren't autocratic regimes the obvious clients for such techniques?

Re:I would assume the Chinese had the lead in that (4, Funny)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127710)

So THAT is how Kim Jong Il was able to be the doctor doing the delivery at his own birth!

Re:I would assume the Chinese had the lead in that (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128188)

Well, OTOH full-blooded autocracy might not even really need such methods all that much, vs. places where the "voice of people" supposedly matters.

(really, it might have been almost a sport; coming from a place formerly behind the Iron Curtain, I'm pretty sure people were treating anything coming from the Party with a grain of salt anyway)

Re:I would assume the Chinese had the lead in that (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128220)

The Chinese have the lead in a lot of things. And cadmium as well.

Stalin was having people edited out for years... (2, Insightful)

crovira (10242) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128444)

You'd be written in and out of the "history" books.

Zinoviev died, and was written out.

Trotski was murdered in Mexico, and was written out.

Hundreds and thousands were written out of existence, their tombstones chiseled clean.

That was one of the points in 1984.

Control the books and you control the history of a people. Winston Smith job was working as a "redactor", part of the problem, even as he sought, and failed, to find a solution.

People who could recite the history of the lottery numbers chosen at what date could be counted on not to remember that a partner one day was an enemy the next, basically Stalin's form of control, a paranoid/schizophrenic view of humanity where the "others" are all pawns to be played and discarded.(Saddam Hussein was a Stalinist in more ways that one.)

The Gulags were filled with them, and ultimately the cemeteries were filled with imaginary adversaries, by the venial the opportunistic; the survivors who felt less shame at their survival than they felt for their victims.

Re:Stalin was having people edited out for years.. (2, Funny)

AhabTheArab (798575) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128728)

You'd be written in and out of the "history" books.

Zinoviev died, and was written out.

Trotski was murdered in Mexico, and was written out.

Hundreds and thousands were written out of existence, their tombstones chiseled clean.

[citation needed]

Re:Stalin was having people edited out for years.. (3, Interesting)

toddles666 (814422) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128940)

"The Commissar Vanishes" is a great book that documents the methods used by the Soviets to modify photos as various people fell out of favor with Stalin:

http://www.amazon.com/Commissar-Vanishes-Falsification-Photographs-Stalins/dp/B00007D037/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288900689&sr=8-1 [amazon.com]

The methods used by the Soviets to manipulate and control the information consumed by the populace is pretty widely understood, and I'm sure that need to maintain control drove the use of this relatively sophisticated photo manipulation software.

Re:Stalin was having people edited out for years.. (2, Informative)

aekafan (1690920) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128944)

The Gulag Archipelago [amazon.com] by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn. Can't think of of a better citation than this. Or search for the NKVD. Their specialty was airbrushing history. Oh, and shooting political enemies of the state in the head.

Authoritarian tyrants are much the same whether their guise is communism, national socialism, or democracy. The best way to make people forget about enemies of the state is to not talk about them.

Re:Stalin was having people edited out for years.. (2, Interesting)

trurl7 (663880) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130340)

It's actually quite easy to think of a better citation. The Gulag Archipelago is a work of fiction; Solzhenitsyn has in later life admitted that, especially in regards to the overall numbers, he had made things up. This is not denying reality of what the Soviet regime was up to in those years - simply that you don't want to use the Gulag Archipelago as your primary historical citation.

Re:Stalin was having people edited out for years.. (1)

ak3ldama (554026) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129988)

You'd be written in and out of the "history" books.
Zinoviev died, and was written out.
Trotski was murdered in Mexico, and was written out.
Hundreds and thousands were written out of existence, their tombstones chiseled clean.

[citation needed]

What is it with people? You should not just be able to say Citation needed at whim. There are times in life where if you haven't done the research you should just not say anything at all. Go read a book. Go to a library. Get off your computer, and stop acting like you care if you actually do not. This is not wikipedia, this is slashdot. Stalin and Soviet history is not a hard topic to learn about.

Re:I would assume the Chinese had the lead in that (1)

VolciMaster (821873) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129208)

And I'm not even joking. Aren't monochromatic regimes the obvious clients for such techniques?

there. Fixed that for you.

I would have been more impressed (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34127692)

But they were doing this stuff with deluxe paint on an Amiga in 1985.

Nifty (1)

bchickens (255621) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127696)

Its nice to see that someone besides the super geek was using image editing back then!

Re:Nifty (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128000)

Everybody was using it. With or without computers

If you open a 70-80-es soviet book on photography there is always a BIG chapter on touching up pictures. There is a reason for it - if you see the zombies in charge (Brezhnev, Suslov, etc) faces without retouching you would probably lose sleep for the next few days from recurring nightmares.

In Soviet Russia.... (0)

Quantus347 (1220456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127724)

...Photo's edit you!!!

Re:In Soviet Russia.... (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129218)

I clicked on the comments for this specifically to see how far I had to scroll to find the Yakov. (further than I thought)

[Insert Obligatory Soviet Russia Joke Here] (4, Funny)

CdrGlork (1096607) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127740)

Now the rest of you can concentrate on real, intelligent responses. Don't say I never took one for the team.

Re:[Insert Obligatory Soviet Russia Joke Here] (4, Funny)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128008)

In Soviet Russia the team takes one for you?

Re:[Insert Obligatory Soviet Russia Joke Here] (1)

Illusion2269 (959341) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128438)

In Soviet Russia the team takes one for you?

No, In Soviet Russia, you take one after another, after another, for the glory of Mother Russia, and like it! Yeah, doesn't quite roll off the tongue as nicely though...

Re:[Insert Obligatory Soviet Russia Joke Here] (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129062)

In Soviet Russia, photo edits you!

Obligatory Standard Joke (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129128)

And there it is.

Obligatory Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34130462)

Obligatory it is!

Er... yeah... and ? (3, Informative)

MouseR (3264) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127810)

Earlier in the late 70s and early 80s, people around the globe used Crossfield and Hell drum scanners to retouch photos. Yeahs before computers were able to do it.

I had pieces of a Hell drum scanner in my office in 1988 when I was building an image correction software to control it. By then, ImagePro had already been doing this for a couple of years, on computers.

Re:Er... yeah... and ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128100)

Don't forget about the Dainippon Screen drum scanners and systems like the Sigmagraph 2000

1981 The company's first electronic page makeup system, the Sigmagraph 2000, is introduced. This system is the forerunner of Dainippon Screen's subsequent page makeup systems.

http://www.screenusa.com/history.cfm?section=5

Re:Er... yeah... and ? (1)

youngone (975102) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130668)

That's not quite right. I was a Photolithographer all through the 80's (and most of the 90's too), and as a "Colour Stripper" (cue jokes now), I took the seperated film from the scanner and did the actual retouching on a light bench with a paint brush and a retouching paste, (can't even remember what it was called now). It took a long time, as required a fair bit of skill, which is why we were paid quite well to do it. When Macs became fast enough, and Photoshop mature enough to do the job, we did it using those tools. Takes a lot less skill frankly, its just a matter of knowing what works and doing that again and again.

"Damaged" images. (4, Insightful)

Geoffrey.landis (926948) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127832)

And they used it for "restoring damaged images". Yeah. Sure.

Images that were "damaged," for example, by having Trotsky [wikipedia.org] in them.

Re:"Damaged" images. (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128120)

Or Nikolai Yezhov [newseum.org] .

Re:"Damaged" images. (3, Insightful)

Quantus347 (1220456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128418)

And they used it for "restoring damaged images". Yeah. Sure.

Images that were "damaged," for example, by having Trotsky [wikipedia.org] in them.

He has crazy eyes...

Re:"Damaged" images. (1)

BluBrick (1924) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128766)

He has crazy eyes...

Soviet image editink software works good, da?

Re:"Damaged" images. (2, Insightful)

aekafan (1690920) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129020)

Yeah, he did have crazy eyes. Fortunately, the icepick in the head solved that.

Re:"Damaged" images. (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 3 years ago | (#34131286)

Images that were "damaged," for example, by having Trotsky [wikipedia.org] in them.

The same goes for pretty much every picture of Nixon that I have ever seen.

This is nothing more than just a simple showcase (1)

hazah (807503) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127834)

All this is is just the very basics of restoration tech. No conspiracy. Not even news.

"Put Missiles in Cuba"? (1)

fkx (453233) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127842)

"Put Missiles in Cuba"?

Now that would be an impressive image editing software package.

I'd buy it.

DHMO Connection (3, Funny)

Suki I (1546431) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127844)

The world's biggest killer, dihydrogen monoxide, is known in ultra-secret circles as a key ingredient in doctoring images.

Re:DHMO Connection (1)

Maritz (1829006) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128746)

It's also the number one reason for homeopathic overdoses (drowning).

In Soviet Russia... (1)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127868)

...rotary scanners, magnetic tape, and trackballs Photoshop you!

Wait a minute, at 1:11 is that Kip from Napoleon Dynamite??? [lollibrary.com]

Looks like the footage has been ... (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127876)

... video shopped. Are you sure it is real?

So what? (1)

objekt (232270) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127882)

There were grayscale image editing programs for Macintosh at that time, and color image editing software for mini computers even earlier.

Re:So what? (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128124)

I am pretty sure I used color imaging software in 87... even in 86 (DeluxPaint/ImageFX/AdPro) and I definitely saw 24 bit editing on a preproduction/very early version of Mac II in late 1985... yes that steak was VERY juicy on that highres monitor.

Uncrop! (1)

PatPending (953482) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127884)

Yeah, well, I'll bet they didn't have an Uncrop [youtube.com] function!

Soviets just bought western technology (1)

mschaffer (97223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127926)

OK, so the Soviets could by western hardware (Pericolor drum scanner and an Apple ///). Big deal.

Obligatory Yakov Smirnoff joke (-1, Redundant)

mschaffer (97223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127946)

...in Soviet Union, picture edits you...

Re:Soviets just bought western technology (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128866)

OK, so the Soviets could by western hardware (Pericolor drum scanner and an Apple ///). Big deal.

That's Yabloka Tre, you insensitive clodski.

In Soviet Russia... (-1, Redundant)

Logibeara (1620627) | more than 3 years ago | (#34127960)

photographs retouch YOU

In Sovi3t Russia (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34127974)

Image edits YOU!

FUCK THEM COMMIES!! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34127984)

Too late !! They already fucked themselves out of existence !! In former-Soviet Red Commie Russia, they now have a full-fledge Putinocrocy !! Just goes to show if you squeeze a potato hard enough, you can get vodka !!

from comments there (5, Informative)

JustFisher (1123293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128080)

It's not Soviet , it's French ! It's a PERICOLOR-1000 system with a software translated to Russian. They used to buy hardware and software in the West and change it a bit(translate) and present it as one developed internally in some scientific institute. Here is the discussion in Russian: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/history/107465/ [habrahabr.ru]

Re:from comments there (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128210)

Exactly. This is why I can speak Russian, in French. Stay thirsty my friends...

Re:from comments there (2, Informative)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128686)

The computer they are using to control it to the right is an Apple /// with what appears to be a standard Roman layout keyboard. The floppy sleeve is covering the logo, heavens forbid they show they are using Western technology! I don't think the Russians would have bothered to clone that machine (which arguably was about as reliable as anything the Soviets made), they did clone the Apple II series though.

Re:from comments there (1)

smitty97 (995791) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129642)

It was reliable, you just had to drop it to reseat the chips [lowendmac.com] every now and then

Tooooo mannnnnyyy jokes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128160)

... must mock sovjet russia...

Focus On The S/w, Not The H/w (1)

cmholm (69081) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128164)

Granted, the equipment depicted looks to be a combo of imported (drum scanner), cloned (Apple II), Soviet (tape drive), and in-house (track ball) equipment.

However, I'm going to make a wild-ass guess that the Cyrillic interface photo-editing software was home grown, and that's the significant value-add to the system.

Photoshop 1.0 (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128250)

There were image manipulation before Photoshop?
LIES!
That the verb for doing image manipulation is 'to photoshop' should be proof enough! I mean OMGz LOL If teh wordz is to photoshop, how could you photoshop, before photoshop 1.0? with the beta release???!!!111oenenoene

Seriously, kids, the shift of the millenium was not celebrated as the end of the stone age!

Murrr (1)

ModernGeek (601932) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128280)

Unless the soviets helped the US fake the landing, I doubt that this software was used to fake one.

Re:Murrr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128360)

Perhaps the soviets erased their moonlanding? After all, the moon is a very desolate place, and what is the glory in having been there?

Dr. Baronovich says: (1)

GeorgeFitch3 (988277) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128284)

You must think in Russian to use this software.

SGI and the X Windows system (1)

bobs666 (146801) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128354)

SGI and the X Windows system both existed in 1987.
And the editing tools included 3D modeling.

This is not state of the art in the day.

Although I can see how important Censorship of images in the Soviet Union would be in the day... Its all about the propaganda.

Good stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34128356)

Long live our Soviet motherland,
Built by the people's mighty hand.
Long live our people, united and free.
Strong in our friendship tried by fire.
Long may our crimson flag inspire,
Shining in glory for all men to see.

Any images of this? (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128368)

And yet there are no images in the article, just video. Is it just me who's annoyed at the growing number of stories with just a couple of sentences and a video? I just skip those. Oh well.

Re:Any images of this? (1)

lxs (131946) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128490)

You'll get used to them. Back in the '30s I felt the same way about talkies.

Re:Any images of this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129486)

There were images in the articles, but those got edited out by the censors already. Their 1985 tools can't yet edit out the videos.

In soviet russia... (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128414)

Photoshop didnt invented photo retouching as most in the western world seem to believe.

Re:In soviet russia... (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129248)

I don't think anybody claims Photoshop invented photo editing, but nobody can deny that they invented the standard still used to this day for photo editing. Besides, the Russian one shown is just a French program that has been translated, so they didn't "invent" anything either.

This is just freaking amazing! (1)

Oasiz (1017554) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128458)

I don't care for the year but this just looks so much cooler than photoshop, I just love that scanline distortion happening during frame drawing :)

I am a sucker for these kind of devices, just like the modeller that was used in making of the star wars 3d wireframe deathstar model.

Soviet hardware design style rules, everything looks like from a sci-fi movie.

This is violation... (1)

elewton (1743958) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128596)

Of many, many patents.
We'll see you in court, USSR!

Family of Greedo rejoices (2, Funny)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128734)

The family of Greedo was relieved to hear about this old technology especially about claims that the Soviet Union may have used this technology to frame their patriarch. When asked a spokesthing for the family remarked "For years we have said that George Lucas with the help of foreign powers altered footage to make it look like Greedo shot first. We've always believed that no good [beep] [beep] scoundrel Han Solo shot our Greedo in cold blood." The spokesthing continued "Well, in a way it's a good thing it has taken this long, because now that Han is married to Leia, we're talking about Intergalactic Princess money now." When asked if that meant the family intended to pursue a wrongful death lawsuit against Han Solo, the spokesthing only responded "CHA-CHING!"

Plus-good MiniTru-wise! (1)

John Guilt (464909) | more than 3 years ago | (#34128896)

I've often thought how much more Winston Smith could have got done (in his day job) in an on-line world. Maybe he would have been more content, and they could have saved making him rebel so he could be tortured for a later date.

Another leet commercial in the works? (0)

dimer0 (461593) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129040)

TO THE CLOUD!

This Just In (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129306)

A special report for the tinfoil-hat brigade;

Man Actually Did Land on the Moon

The Soviets Actually Did Ship Nuclear-Tipped Ballistic Missles to Cuba

We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.

Wouldn't it be cheaper (2, Funny)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129620)

Wouldn't it have been cheaper just to rent the same studio that NASA used?

Now that's for a responsive UI (3, Interesting)

tibit (1762298) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129662)

While the image repainting was slow simply due to memory bandwidths back then, one can't but be amazed at the instantaneous response from the right-hand menu system. It seems like it took one or two vsyncs for the new menu to appear in response to a keystroke. This is something that you still can't get on modern OSes simply because there's always the VM subsystem in the way. On OS X, working normally with few running applications and plenty of memory, I can get 100+ms lag when switching between menus. Sure, the median may be pretty good, but the worst case is annoying. It interferes with the workflow. Never mind the everpresent lag on the workspace of most applications, be it photo editing, spreadsheet, CAD, etc.

I think that VM paging-induced lags are something that can't be overcome as long as we keep programming like we do -- with the assumption of infinite memory, more or less. I would really like to see a gradual shift towards realtime scheduling and applications where at least the core code and data is permanently wired. In the days of CP/M, WordStar was dealing quite well with slow links between the CPU and the terminal: you could type while it was trying to refresh the menus and the workspace. In the worst case, if you typed really fast, it'd only paint the characters you typed and nothing else. The timing was done such that it took into account the terminal baudrate, so things suitably improved when you'd switch the baudrate to something faster (38400 was a big deal back then, many systems only supported 19200 and defaulted to 4800 or 9600bps).

These days there are plenty of applications where everything is unresponsive due to paging just a tiny part of the UI. You'd think that the hot path would be resident and responsive, and that the GUI systems would cope with multiple application threads all doing GUI operations. Alas, neither X11 nor winapi got that right, and I don't know offhand whether multithreaded UI operations are allowed by OS X. Heck, you'd think that message-based interthread/interprocess communications would enable one to queue messages in face of stalled threads (say disk I/O stalls), and let the core user experience stay on par with expectations circa 1980.

Paging is the sole killer of user experience in modern applications, and it's not easy to work around it in environments where only one thread in a process can paint on the screen.

Re:Now that's for a responsive UI (3, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130522)

While the image repainting was slow simply due to memory bandwidths back then, one can't but be amazed at the instantaneous response from the right-hand menu system. It seems like it took one or two vsyncs for the new menu to appear in response to a keystroke. This is something that you still can't get on modern OSes simply because there's always the VM subsystem in the way.

That's all very true, except that you're completely wrong. Seriously, what? I get those lags even on systems where I've temporarily disabled swap. I wholeheartedly agree that most X GUIs are painfully laggy - I hate that my 7MHz Amiga 1000 was much more responsive than my dual-core 3GHz desktop - but that has everything to do with the interactions between toolkits, X, and the apps using those toolkits and nothing at all to do with paging. And while you're at it, quit saying "VM" when you mean "paging". While you commonly see them together, they're nowhere near the same.

Re:Now that's for a responsive UI (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 3 years ago | (#34130986)

I've got an i7 running at 4100 mhz, an SSD holding the apps and data, and 12 gigs of ram. I'm trying to replicate the delays of your post but having trouble. What programs, exactly, have a noticable latency on a machine like mine? I'm guessing that the extremely high memory bandwidth and clock on this machine is able to do all that overhead you are complaining about before my slow brain can notice a delay. (I noticed the machine did get snappier once I increased the ram from 4 gigs in dual channel to 12 gigs in triple channel)

For the record... (1)

billsayswow (1681722) | more than 3 years ago | (#34129858)

It's not called image editing, it's called "correcting the truth". These images are here for the Premier's aid, to help him remember things. If he doesn't need to remember a troublesome commissar, why keep him in there?!

Why do people forget ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34129892)

That the Russians were really good at math.

Translation Please? (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 3 years ago | (#34131250)

Could someone who knows Russian kindly translate the voice over in the video?

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