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PayPal Demos Auto-Debit Gumball Machine

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the candy-card dept.

The Almighty Buck 124

ForgedArtificer writes "At their recent developers conference in San Diego, CA, PayPal unveiled a proof-of-concept gumball machine that would instantly pay for a gumball through a PayPal account using a smart phone and a QR code, sending a confirmation of the purchase through Twitter. Ok, maybe we all don't really care if we can get a gumball without a quarter, but the possibilities for this technology are endless."

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124 comments

endless possibilities (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347232)

"but the possibilities for this technology are endless."

Seems Slashdot editors can't even seem to spell 'beginningless'

Re:endless possibilities (2, Insightful)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347664)

I thought you paid for police chases afterwards.

Re:endless possibilities (2, Insightful)

zonky (1153039) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347682)

Yes, everyone will be able to quickly and easily swap cheap payments via paypal, then there will be a fraud allegation, and someone's paypal account will be frozen permanently.

People stupid enough to trust paypal with their record of appalling behaviour deserve what they get.

Re:endless possibilities (1)

Lillebo (1561251) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348196)

...with their record of appalling behaviour...

Could you please elaborate on these allegations?

For your protection, (4, Informative)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348252)

Paypal has withheld your gummy bear for 180 days. Because you accessed the gummy bear from a location other than your usual location, we will also hold your $.25 while our anti-fraud department investigates.

To increase trust in the Paypal community, verify your account. To verify, fax a recent utility bill, send your debit card PIN and a half-chewn gummy bear as a DNA sample.

Re:For your protection, (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348480)

The minimum PayPal fee is more than the cost of the gumball so the owner of the machine looses money with every one sold.

The gumball would also have to be mailed to you with proof of delivery otherwise you could claim it never arrived. Any transaction where the receiver collects the item in person cannot safely be paid for with PayPal because the only evidence they accept as proof that the buyer has the item is a postal tracking number with signature on delivery. Even then the buyer could return it for being "not as described" and if you receive a turd in a box the only way to contest the item was not in the condition you sent it in is to report the matter to the police as fraud.

In my city the police won't deal with anything to do with PayPal. I don't know if it's a national policy or just local.

Re:For your protection, (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348516)

"Chewn"? Hm. It ALMOST sounds like a word. Other than that, I sympathize completely.

Re:For your protection, (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348522)

"Chewn"?? Hm. It ALMOST sounds like a word. But other than that, I know exactly what you mean.

Re:endless possibilities (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348688)

"but the possibilities for this technology are endless."

The example given in the article is crap: "Imagine that you read the first chapter of a book at a friend's house and would like to buy it to read the rest. Pull out your phone and with two quick taps a copy is being shipped to you through Amazon."
You can already do this, books have barcodes printed on them! I've bought CDs on Amazon while at a friend's house doing this.

I don't think there are any more possibilities than my contactless credit card provides, except that this is on a phone, but in Japan (and Hong Kong?) they have contactless payment modules on their phone.

Twitter (4, Funny)

jrumney (197329) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347234)

sending a confirmation of the purchase through Twitter.

My wife is looking forward to when the local strip club starts using this technology. Privacy be damned.

Killer App (1)

godunc (1836034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347272)

My wife is looking forward to when the local strip club starts using this technology. Privacy be damned.

...but it would be a great application for a lilypad arduino. (http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardLilyPad)

Re:Killer App (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347344)

OMG! He mentionned Arduinoooooooo! Give him +5 redundant, learn to code, tired of hearing about Arduino.

Re:Twitter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347982)

.... Strippers will now start getting QR codes tattooed.

Not Funny. Billed by Facial Expressions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348202)

MFW Naked Lady: 8->
>>Smartphone billed for receiving entertainment.

MFW Police Department LOLI-entrapment on street-corner: :-/
>>Smartphone billed for not reporting Child Endangerment to Social Services.

MFW George Carlin: 8D
>>Smartphone billed for receiving Phylosophy degree.

MFW Saturday Night Live: ;_;
>>Smartphone not billed for entertainment, SNL billed for uppers-drugs assigned from Suicide Booth.

MFW Goatse: ;-(
>>Smartphone not billed, BATFE(ces) is on the Scene to seize your Smartphone for interacting with Terrorists.

Banking regulations. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347240)

How is PayPal *not* a bank again? O.o

Re:Banking regulations. (2, Informative)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347280)

PayPal is [paypal.com] a registered bank.

Re:Banking regulations. (4, Informative)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347358)

PayPal is [paypal.com] a registered bank.

Depending on where you are. From your link:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/
"PayPal was granted a bank license with the Luxembourg bank authority."
"PayPal Luxembourg will be regulated to the same standard as all major European banks. Banking laws and standards in the European Union ensure that customers are just as protected by a Luxembourg bank as by a UK, French, or German bank."

Not a lot of good outside the EU.

Re:Banking regulations. (2, Informative)

Tolkien (664315) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347364)

Yep. Everywhere else they are entirely unregulated, and they will definitely want it to stay that way for as long as they can get away with it.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347724)

Well how else are they going to raid money from people for 'infractions'.

Re:Banking regulations. (3, Informative)

t33jster (1239616) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347782)

Yep. Everywhere else they are entirely unregulated, and they will definitely want it to stay that way for as long as they can get away with it.

Well, not exactly unregulated, but unless you're specific about what sort of regulations you feel are missing, the rest of this is purely pedantic. It's much more of a clusterfuck than that. For instance, I count 42 states (well, 41 + a District) here [paypal-media.com] . As a former employee of PayPal's AML Compliance department, I can tell you that paypal is regulated (AML/CTF - not consumer protection regulations which is probably what you're bitching about) in the US (FinCEN), Canada (FinTRAC), Australia (AusTRAC), China (HK Police) the EU (CSSF) and anywhere outside of that in Singapore (MAS). A year ago when I left, there was talk of adding legal entities in 4 or 5 other countries, primarily in Asia and Latin America.

To the GP's point about why PayPal is not a bank (in the US anyhow), is that US banks issue credit and US money service businesses merely move money. I would certainly concede that the Bill Me Later unit of PayPal is operates purely on the technicality of the laws and/or regulations that separate banks from MSBs (BML makes a decision on whether to extend credit, then a bank issues the credit with the understanding that BML will buy the debt a few days later). There was often talk of becoming a bank, or at least chartering a subsidiary bank in order to allow the credit issuing to move completely in house. Ebay divesting Skype was supposedly a part of that plan, although I never understood why, nor can I say whether PayPal is any closer to becoming (or more likely starting) a bank. More of what PayPal does falls under the EU's legal definition of a bank, so PayPal is a bank there.

Re:Banking regulations. (1, Interesting)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348566)

What I see is a (possible) mixing of businesses... a "cartel" if you will. But for example, if you buy something from ebay, by default they will automatically ship it to your PayPal address, whether you asked them to or not.

Once I sold an item via ebay to someone in Italy, even though I specified that my sale would only be to US customers, because even though his listed address with ebay was in Italy, his PayPal address was in California, and ebay went with that. WTF??? What if I was selling something that was illegal to sell outside the US? I could be tricked into it if someone buys via ebay.

They can't claim to be separate companies if they are sharing all their records willy-nilly! Or, as in this case, saying the OTHER company's data is more valid than your own.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

blackdew (1161277) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347986)

I'm not sure how it works in most of the world, but here the law applies to anyone. Registration as a bank gives you some protection from those laws (stuff like money laundering and tax evasion by your clients) and in return you have more reporting to do and have to follow some basic regulations set by the national bank.

I sure as hell hope that in most of the world (or at least those countries where paypal have representation and assets) anyone who actually looses money from their actions can go to court and have them pay back disregarding registration as bank, this is how sane laws work.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348524)

Even in the EU it isn't that much help. For example in the UK when there is fraud on an account the bank has to prove that the customer was negligent or absorb the cost of putting it right themselves. Some banks tried to weasle out of it by claiming things like Chip & Pin made fraud impossible unless the customer gave away their PIN but the regulator made it very clear that was not the case.

PayPal on the other hand assume you are guilty until you can prove otherwise.

Re:Banking regulations. (2, Insightful)

cob666 (656740) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347464)

PayPal wants everybody to believe that its a simple escrow service but I agree that its acting more and more like a bank, if they are considered a banking entity in the UK and other countries in Europe then they should be operating as a bank in the US. PayPal simply has far too much control over YOUR money and regardless of what their TOS state it should be far more difficult for them to arbitrarily hold people's money and/or freeze their account.

Re:Banking regulations. (2, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347498)

An escrow service doesn't generally get to keep the money that it's moving. Usually they get some sort of a cut of the transfer whether or not it's successful. But the remainder has to be given to either of the two parties involved in all cases. Either the intended recipient or if that's not possible back to the originating party.

Paypal however takes the position that in the middle they own the money and can do with it what they like. They can pass in on as intended or they can refund it back or secret option C they can just keep it and drag their feet giving it back.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347530)

I don't understand; if you know that they operate a certain way, why would you let them have your money in the first place? You say they need to be regulated as a bank, but why is that necessary if you can protect yourself from them by not having anything to do with them in the first place?

Re:Banking regulations. (1, Interesting)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347574)

True. But increasingly, some avenues only accept PayPal. eBay being the obvious one.
e.g. Last year, I needed a new bulb for my DLP flat panel TV. Everywhere else, it was $3-4-500. Found several, new(?) on eBay for $100. The only payment allowed/accepted was PayPal. No way I'm linking PayPal to an actual account of mine that has actual money/credit. So...go to the local drugstore, buy a prepaid card, put enough money in it to cover, link that card to a PayPal acct....then actually buy the thing. PITA, especially if I were buying regularly from eBay.

Re:Banking regulations. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347966)

> I needed a new bulb for my DLP flat panel TV.

No-one "needs" anything for a TV. Just dump it when it breaks again, you'll find you have a lot more time in life.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348408)

One could say the same about Slashdot, yet here you are.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348710)

He saved time by not signing in, though.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

Scarletdown (886459) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348052)

eBay sellers can accept other forms of payment. The catch is, only the potential buyer can bring up the subject. You may not be able to mention in your listings that you accept any forms other than PayPal, but there is nothing stopping you from informing the buyers of what eBay's policies actually allow. You just have to be able to word it so that you are not actually soliciting other forms of payment.

Then again, I don't think eBay is cracking down too hard on alternate payments anyway, because I do not think that they are quite stupid enough to not realize that they will make more money from a sale that is paid by a method other than PayPal than they would make from a sale that does not happen at all.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348110)

So, this inconvenience justifies forcing PayPal by law to behave differently, even though they aren't forcing anything on you?

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348812)

I'm amazed anyone uses it unless they are forced to by eBay because not only are the fees very high but the amount of fraud that takes places is too.

Fraud on PayPal is common because the dispute resolution system is flawed and makes it too easy for people to make bogus claims. Say you buy something but the seller sends it by normal post instead of getting a signature on delivery. You can claim you never got and there is pretty much nothing they can do to counter your claim so you will get your money back. In contrast if you bought the item via Google Checkout they only care about the trasaction so if you wanted to make a false claim it would have to be via Small Claims Court or something. That alone seems to keep people honest.

I know some people who habitually claim for anything they didn't sign for on receipt via PayPal. There does not seem to be any checking or statistics kept on the frequency of claims so they can do it as often as they like. One guy I know got in ~30 PS3s with the Yellow Light of Death fault to fix and then re-sell but as most of them came from private sellers who didn't know about the PayPal scam he ended up paying for about of a quarter of them with the rest refunded.

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348398)

Why do you assume he cares only about himself, and not about other people who might not know about their practices?
That's like saying Madoff shouldn't be arrested, as long as you know you shouldn't put your money there.

(Working) regulation sets a minimum standard below which we as a society don't want business to work. People shouldn't have to be guinea pigs to find out about such practices.

Re:Banking regulations. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348012)

it should be far more difficult for them to arbitrarily hold people's money and/or freeze their account.

Makes me think of this situation. [somethingawful.com]

Where Paypal completely fucked over charitable donations by locking it down, blocked returns for a while, and then...this.

Although it's taken over a day for them to do it, they are issuing complete refunds (except for foreign money orders; anybody who used Paypal to convert foreign currency to US dollars have lost money on the "conversion fees"... despite the fact NO PHYSICAL MONEY CHANGED HANDS. I guess the mere process of adding one of those stupid "£" signs to a series of virtual numbers costs a lot of money).

Re:Banking regulations. (1)

Shoten (260439) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347804)

Simple: their customer service is WAY more self serving than that of any real bank!

My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (4, Insightful)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347250)

My smart phone does. This will never be able to replace other forms of money until they get that one sorted.

A: Because it disrupts the flow of a message (4, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347302)

Q: Why is starting a comment in the Subject: line incredibly irritating?

Re:A: Because it disrupts the flow of a message (0, Troll)

Cruorin (1453909) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347322)

A: Because you are too lazy to read the subject lines

Re:A: Because it disrupts the flow of a message (2, Informative)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347352)

The title is not the beginning of the first paragraph.

Its not that bad but the line should repeat intext (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347490)

n/t

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (3, Insightful)

ziggyzaggy (552814) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347330)

your credit card can't make 25 cent payments. I believe we'll go to a cashless society, all electronic money. That way the banking cartel can get a cut of every transaction no matter how small, and the government can tax, monitor and control all transactions no matter how small. If they consider you a pestilent person, they will cut off your ability to buy and sell.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347384)

your credit card can't make 25 cent payments.

Sure it can. It may not be practical, at the moment, given the way the processors and card issuers structure their fees, but it's absolutely possible.

I believe we'll go to a cashless society, all electronic money. That way the banking cartel can get a cut of every transaction no matter how small, and the government can tax, monitor and control all transactions no matter how small. If they consider you a pestilent person, they will cut off your ability to buy and sell.

Government will never enact legislation that would inhibit cash bribes.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347652)

Government will never enact legislation that would inhibit cash bribes.

You can execute bribes in 25 cent increments? Cue the two bit _____ jokes.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347400)

I just used a credit card as an example that the majority of Slashdot readers can understand. Normally I would use this [wikipedia.org] which charges no fees to either me or the merchant. I would use that to buy something for 25cents and the merchant would not complain at all.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

Nermal6693 (622898) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347412)

Indeed. My first thought when reading the summary was "how is this any different from swiping an EFTPOS card?". Obviously it's using a phone instead of a card, but the net result is the same.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (2, Insightful)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347432)

how is this any different from swiping an EFTPOS card?

PayPal gets it's 1% or whatever the current rate is.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

snookums (48954) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347482)

Actually, I'm pretty sure EFTPOS does cost the merchant, but it's a small flat fee per transaction (I think something on the order of 10c), rather than a percentage of the sale that a credit card company charges. This is why most merchants do have a minimum EFTPOS transaction amount (often $5 or $10).

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (2, Informative)

jrumney (197329) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347600)

It depends on which country you're talking about. There is no standard for debit cards, as there is for credit cards. In the UK, debit cards incur a flat fee, which is why you see a lot of signs in shops specifying a minimum purchase for debit card use. In New Zealand, which has the highest debit card use in the world (and where debit cards are colloqually known as EFTPOS cards), there is no charge to the merchant.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (2, Insightful)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347556)

Here in the US we have a device [wikipedia.org] which also charges no fees to either the buyer or the seller. They have a nice feature in that if you lose one, nobody can access the rest of your money.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (2, Insightful)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347586)

Holding US currency is essentially the same as giving the Federal Reserve an interest free loan and it takes much longer to count and hand out change than most electronic transactions. In addition it is nice and easy for any thief to steal. Yes cash is good for fall-back but it has it's issues as well.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347736)

Holding US currency is essentially the same as giving the Federal Reserve an interest free loan
It is but then holding money in your paypal account is essentially the same as giving paypal an interest free loan and many accounts at banks (particularly business current accounts) also pay negligible interest.

In addition it is nice and easy for any thief to steal.
On the other hand the money at risk is limited to the ammount of cash you have on-hand. With a credit or debit card the ammount of money at risk can be much less.

Depending on your local laws you may not personally be liable for that theft but someone's got to pay for it (often the merchant that accepts the fraudulent transaction).

it takes much longer to count and hand out change than most electronic transactions
hmm, given the response speed of most "chip and pin" credit card terminals i've used or the time it takes to sign a receipt and for the merchant to check that signature (badly) I somewhat doubt this. Most cashiers i've seen are pretty quick at picking change.

Overall cash isn't perfect but so far all of the alternatives like to pile on fees and hassles such that for small transactions they aren't reasonable.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347760)

can be much less.
That should have said can be much greater

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

igreaterthanu (1942456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347790)

On the other hand the money at risk is limited to the ammount of cash you have on-hand. With a credit or debit card the ammount of money at risk can be much less.

Not so if you have a card that requires a pin and will not work without a pin.

Depending on your local laws you may not personally be liable for that theft but someone's got to pay for it

True, but this assumes fraud actually takes place. With EFTPOS (which is different to Credit) a pin is required and the card will stop working after (3?) incorrect attempts. It is quite hard to find out what your pin is if you actually take care to cover the terminal when you enter it.

it takes much longer to count and hand out change than most electronic transactions

I have noticed the same with Chip and Pin, but EFTPOS is probably twice as quick, if not more. After swiping the card I can enter my pin almost instantly (unlike with Chip and Pin) and after entering a pin it usually takes about 2 seconds for the transaction to go through, during which I can be placing my card back in my wallet.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348772)

I have noticed the same with Chip and Pin, but EFTPOS is probably twice as quick, if not more. After swiping the card I can enter my pin almost instantly (unlike with Chip and Pin) and after entering a pin it usually takes about 2 seconds for the transaction to go through, during which I can be placing my card back in my wallet.

EMV (Chip + PIN) cards have a microchip which performs encryption (a key is unlocked with the PIN and a key on the terminal), which is much slower then reading some numbers. It looks like NZ might be upgrading [paymark.co.nz] .

Retailers don't have to use the chip, although almost all do as it reduces their liability (they aren't liable if a PIN is used and the card stolen). The only one I've found that doesn't is a branch of McDonald's. There I just swiped the card, and within a second it was "OK". The time saving is evidently worthwhile to McDonald's, for the sake of the cost of a burger.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348800)

I forgot to mention: here contactless cards allow payments of under £15 to be made quickly without a PIN.

Visa's version. [visa.co.uk] .

Last time I looked the only places you could use the cards were big coffee shops, now it seems loads of places have them. They should advertise them better!

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348956)

Not so if you have a card that requires a pin and will not work without a pin.

Most cards have the fall back option of a signature (a lot of countries require this for disability discrimination reasons, not everyone can operate the keypads). Theoretically that should be reasonably secure, although anecdotally I've noticed these days they rarely check or care if the signature on the card matches the one you give them (I know this from personal experience as my own signature seems to look different every time I write it, they generally glance at it and process the payment anyway - I have been challenged on this precisely once in the almost 20 years that I've used a debit card).

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347954)

>\

Overall cash isn't perfect but so far all of the alternatives like to pile on fees and hassles such that for small transactions they aren't reasonable.

I disagree entirely! I have tens of thousands of dollars stuffed under my mattress!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm feeling rather tired. I think I'll have a smoke before I fall asleep.

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347998)

your credit card can't make 25 cent payments.

I believe we'll go to a cashless society, all electronic money. That way the banking cartel can get a cut of every transaction no matter how small, and the government can tax, monitor and control all transactions no matter how small. If they consider you a pestilent person, they will cut off your ability to buy and sell.

Here in Finland parking meters take credit cards just fine. I can pay minimum of 20 cents. Why wouldn't it be possible?

Re:My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348778)

Here in Finland parking meters take credit cards just fine. I can pay minimum of 20 cents. Why wouldn't it be possible?

Of course, even if there's a 10c fee it's probably still cheaper than paying someone to collect the money from loads of parking meters and maintain the coin detection mechanisms.

Parking meters with cash can also be a target for criminals.

Pinball mabybe. (1)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347262)

Gumball no.

Re:Pinball mabybe. (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347340)

Slot machine?

Re:Pinball mabybe. (1)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347700)

Gambling is a tax on people bad at math.
Unless you are talking about a different kind of slot machine. You know the one that give you a black eye when you swipe your credit card through their crack.

Re:Pinball mabybe. (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348974)

Gambling is a tax on people bad at math.

Whereas for those who are good at maths it can be quite lucrative [wikipedia.org] .

Endless possibilities! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347312)

Endless possibilities! For PayPal. They're salivating at the thought of all that new money they can freeze indefinitely for whatever reason they can come up with.

of course (2, Funny)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347326)

paypal gets a penny on every gumball

Re:of course (1)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347368)

Only a 4% fee? Are you sure? No 'small-value fee'? Or 'QR-code-usage surcharge'?

No way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347336)

Paypal - no way. Paypal with Twitter - absolutely, positively no way.

Here come the overdrafts (2, Insightful)

BigSlowTarget (325940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347348)

Wonderful. Since Paypal is linked to checking accounts now you can expect that should a hold be placed on a check you deposit or if there's a bank error you'll be in for a $33.05 gumball.

Re:Here come the overdrafts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347406)

If it weren't for the recent legislation that requires people to opt-in to that "service".

I've eaten my share of $37 hamburgers, and despite all of my strongest libertarian leanings, I have to say I smiled a bit when forced overdraft "protection" was outlawed.

Re:Here come the overdrafts (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347612)

Didn't know about this, been complaining for years. I may need to have a word with my friendly banker.

Re:Here come the overdrafts (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347768)

Or when paypal decides that even though you specified you wanted to pay with your credit card, it takes it out of your bank and refuses to stop trying to take the money out of your bank DESPITE the fact that they already got the money from your credit card, even when you call customer service. Fortunately my bank was understanding and now I am boycotting paypal. They want to play games, they can do so without my money.

Re:Here come the overdrafts (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347942)

Never link your "real" bank account to Paypal. Only ever link a transactional account that you only put the amount of money in that you want to transfer to Paypal, or clear it to your real account when you withdraw from Paypal.

It's sad that you have to do this, though. Once you give Paypal your bank account info, it has total access to your money.

Endless? (1)

silverkniveshotmail. (713965) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347354)

In the future your money will just slowly leak out of you?

Re:Endless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34349010)

s/future/present

Thank you (1)

rshxd (1875730) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347366)

May this innovation help people impulsively spend their money that they don't have

...endless stupidity (3, Insightful)

holophrastic (221104) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347404)

So let's see. The gumball is a simple sphere that cost a penny to produce, and was produced in a batch of thousands. The gumball machine -- read dispensor -- cost ten dollars to produce, adn was produced in a batch of hundreds. The consumer is standing not twelve inches away from a needless and insignificant candy treat.

The perfect solution is not:

a more expensive dispensor, more competant consumer, a mobile phone, a fancy barcode -- read smart phone -- a web-site -- read web browser -- a privacy policy -- actually four -- Internet infrastructure, cellular infrastructure, a phone plan, a data plan, customer service, tech support, a collections agency, anti-fraud measures, and a PIN.

The perfect solution is a hammer. The quarter was already a nuissance. This is just stupid.

Oh yeah, and a bank account. How silly of me.

Re:...endless stupidity (1)

D'Sphitz (699604) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347434)

proof of concept. what are you so mad about?

Re:...endless stupidity (2, Insightful)

holophrastic (221104) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347488)

It's not proof of concept. It's a fun sunday tinkering in the basement.

Try to count the number of things you could do with that sort of concept -- actually. Then think about how many of those things would be better off as a result. Odds are, it's very close to none.

People like to do such things -- link together a dozen systems to show how cool things can be when you link together a bunch of systems. And it is really cool -- it's like art. Entertaining and totally useless.

It's almost never better to link together multiple systems as opposed to building a dedicated single-structure solution. Sure it's often cheaper, and faster, and worse, and worser, and worsest.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link -- because it has absolutely zero redundancy on any one of its many links. But it's easier and cheaper to manufacture, and it's more flexible than a cable.

So what solution would have you rely on, in this case, your bank, twitter, your phone, your ISP, your phone plan, and the dispensor's isp, its plan, its twitter account, and its paypal account?

Talk about surface area for bugs, adn for attack, and for privacy, fraud, and general distrust.

The same would hold true no matter what you're buying over such a system.

Re:...endless stupidity (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34349022)

Besides, the only place this is really useful is for micro-payments (if you're using it to purchase expensive goods or services you're really asking for trouble), and we're already coming up with better methods of doing that, both on cards and built directly into mobiles, so as a proof of concept it's a little late to the party.

Re:...endless stupidity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348798)

The gumball machine cannot dispense candy right now. Please try again in 30 seconds.

Technology is already used in Japan (2, Informative)

Sepiraph (1162995) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347438)

I think Japan is the among one of the first to widely adopt to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_payment [wikipedia.org]

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (1)

Jeeeb (1141117) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348114)

Living in Japan I find it to be little more than a poor substitute for a proper cash card. Unfortunately though proper electronic payment services are woefully under-developed here :(

In Tokyo you can also use train passes to pay at vending machines and at department stores near the train station. Seems really high tech until you realise that it's just another ad-hoc solution to the fundamental problem of crappy electronic payment services.

If you want somewhere to be jealous of take a look at somewhere like Australia. You can pay just about anywhere with an eftpos card. They charge a straight fee rather than a percentage of the price. They require a PIN rather than signing. You can withdraw money when paying with cards at shops and you can use them at any ATM in the country. Thanks to proper direct debit systems when making online purchases, rather than asking for your card details most Australian retailers just asked you to deposit money in their account with a reference number attached. No need to trust their credit card handling infrastructure.

Anything less than that just seems at least a decade out of date. Even if it does involve your mobile phone. Or in this case your mobile phone + a long list of internet buzzwords.

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348462)

You could be describing Portugal. The ATM/debit card system is actually rather nice here.

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348194)

It's quite common in Finland also. I've used my phone to buy tram tickets, soda and pizza sometimes. Uses direct operator billing.

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (2, Informative)

LucidBeast (601749) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348274)

In Finland you can't find a soda machine that you can't pay with a mobile. You can also buy Pizza.

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (1)

alvarl (729745) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348746)

Almost the same in Estonia, and increasingly so in other Baltic countries and many other places in Europe. The middle man may be different but this is pretty similar to what Fortumo is doing (fortumo.com). The wiki article sums it up.

Re:Technology is already used in Japan (1)

heneon (570292) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348902)

And at least you used to be able to order a pizza on a phone you just borrowed from someone on the street, for "an important call". Then give the phone back to the owner, walk to the pizza place, grab your pizza and the phone owner pays it in the phone bill. I am not sure if that is still possible, though...

Why not challenge-response? (3, Interesting)

snookums (48954) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347540)

A more interesting type of system would use a QR code challenge-response. A small screen on the gumball machine, or at the supermarket checkout flashes a QR code. You point your phone camera at it and details of the transaction come up on the screen. If you hit "confirm", your private key is used to sign the transaction and produce a response QR code which appears on your screen and is read back by the merchant.

This way, your phone doesn't need to connect back to the payment gateway provider at all. This is an advantage if there is bad reception inside the store, or your provider is having a bad day, or your pre-paid plan ran out, or you only have an iPod and not a smart phone. Banks could probably even produce dedicated devices that performed only this function and provide them to customers.

Re:Why not challenge-response? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348450)

Can I use this if I dont have a smartphone, only an iphone?

This gives me an idea for a T-shirt (1)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347640)

"I just gave PayPal access to my bank account, and all I have to show for it is a stupid piece of gum*."

Then, in small print:

"* I chose to pay cash for this T-shirt."

Why is Twitter involved? (3, Insightful)

Animats (122034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347688)

Why run this through Twitter? If the server wants to send an SMS message, it should just send an SMS message using an SMS gateway. Why package it as a "tweet?"

(I suspect why. So they can spam you. It's illegal to send unsolicited commercial SMS messages in the US. If PayPal makes you "follow" them on Twitter to get transaction confirmations, they can then send you ads, too.)

Re:Why is Twitter involved? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347832)

My suspicion is more for the simple marketing value of the name Twitter being involved. The weight many companies and people give to Twitter is staggering - e.g., CNN broadcasting any fucking thing any idiot sends them on Twitter as though the twit speaks for an entire generation of people. If you don't have a good idea, add the name Twitter and suddenly it's a much better idea.

Re:Why is Twitter involved? (1)

saintm (142527) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348652)

Yup, that'd be my guess too.

SMS is old hat Granddad, get with the new twitter/mash-up/facebook party. ;)

Stay away ... (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347840)

... from the 'Prophylactics' brand machines. Their chewing gum tastes like rubber.

Thumbprint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34347872)

Can't lose it, can't be stolen, and just as hard to copy as your cellphone. Also everyone has one! Except for the MIB of course

The possibilities for the technology... (1, Interesting)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 3 years ago | (#34347948)

The possibilities end before they even start.

I like many people here will avoid PayPal like the plague if I can. So let's take paypal, add the privacy issues of Twitter, and the insecurities of being able to deduct money without requiring a passcode that is immune to someone stealing my mobile phone. I think people who use this kind of payment system deserve whatever they get.

Actually here's silently hoping that these are rolled out everywhere, a hacker gets access to a few accounts and rips people off for millions. Crossing my fingers that this puts paypal out of business.

Already have this here (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348078)

We already have something similar here in Finland. We have some Cola vending machines that you call with your cellphone which in turn is some sort of service number that charges the amount for whatever drink you want onto your cellular bill. Really handy no cash needed. Although in comparison to the article this is somewhat different but almost the same. Things like this really take off here since _a lot_ of people here basically live a cash free life.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34348166)

What would 4chan do with this?

We already have that technology! (3, Interesting)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 3 years ago | (#34348188)

While it's not linked to a paypal account we've had IC payment here in Japan for a very long time. I've been buying things from vending machines with my phone for maybe 6 years now and as far as I know I was a late adopter.
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