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KDE 4.6 Beta 1 – a First Look

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the looking-sharp dept.

KDE 224

dmbkiwi writes "The first beta release of KDE SC 4.6 was released yesterday. OpenSUSE had packages up almost immediately, so being curious as to what's new, I've downloaded and upgraded to the new release. These are my impressions thus far."

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GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357380)

Even with each minor release of KDE, GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. Like this release proves once more, we see KDE improving and innovating, while GNOME just sits there spinning its wheels.

It's time to abandon GNOME. It was useful for a short while during the 1990s, when Qt's licensing was problematic, but that's no longer an issue. GNOME has stagnated, and is of little value these days. KDE is offers more features, better performance, greater reliability, and just an overall better experience in every way.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Interesting)

paulatz (744216) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357394)

I'm a long-time KDE lover, but I have to use gnome at work and I do not dislike it too much.

At the moment I do think it is lagging behind, but I know that Gnome 3.0 is on the way and it may be the revolution and modernization it needs. We will see.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357420)

Exactly - "We will see" - but when? Gnome 3.0 might be an improvement compared to current, but will it be able to compete with KDE? I don't think so unless they've got huge changes they haven't told us about yet.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (4, Interesting)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357520)

They seem to be planning changes. But I don't like their plans:

http://www.deansas.org/blog/2009/09/24/first-impressions-of-gnome-shell/ [deansas.org]

One of the main changes to my mind is that it does not have a window list on a panel. You switch applications by visiting the Activity "overlay" and then clicking on the window you wish to switch to. This doesn't really affect me much in practise, I usually use alt+tab to switch windows anyway, where it does affect me is for applications that change the window title, e.g. messenger or gmail, I now have to cycle through alt+tab to check for people replying to me etc.

Rather than a window list the panel now lists the name of the currently focused application. It seems a bit useless, most applications have the application name as part of the window list and I'm not likely to forget the name of an application I've started.

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2010-November/msg00030.html [gnome.org]

Just wanted to share a personal experience with GNOME Shell. One of its new and unique attributes is not having the window list or any sort of persistent widget that shows running apps or opened windows. This has benefits, in theory, like helping the user focus on the foreground task.

It's just worth noting that one of its potential downsides is it violates the user's mental model, which makes it undesirable, even if it *may* help increase productivity. With a window list, it's clear to the user where the window goes when it's minimized and how to show it again. In GNOME Shell, the only clear way to tell if a window is minimized is to check if it can't be seen in the workspace, but it's shown in the Overview or Window Switcher (alt+tab). Teling which windows are minimized or not may not have real benefits, but it may be too disorienting for users.

Personally I think they've lost their marbles. How does that help productivity at all? Especially in the cases where you need to use more than one window to do your work?

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (3, Interesting)

udippel (562132) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358008)

I understand your point.
But that's exactly what I have been trying for the last half year: I set my KDE to 'no panel', even 'no border'. And - loving it!
This is not to talk up KDE (which is very lousy in places) or talk down Gnome. It is the paradigm that took me some time to get used to. But now you'd have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers ...

Only if someone is interested: I have the Dashboard on a mouse edge, which now takes in principle the task of the panel, except that it is 2-dimensional instead of a line (== more space, no doubt).
Another mouse edge does the 'Desktop Grid', so that I can move to another desktop, while yet another one presents all windows of the current desktop. And it is just beautiful to have all real estate 100% for the applications; with a 'panel' (desktop==dashboard) directly underneath; instead of invading the screen.

I have no clue if this will accepted by the majority (I think not); but something will need to be done against those ugly, overloaded, panels. From where one needs to drop sub-panels with sub-menus, because the total, primary, real estate is just the screen width.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357446)

Comparing GNOME 3 to KDE 4 is a great way to see the difference between the projects.

On one hand, the KDE devs managed to perform almost a complete rewrite for KDE 4. Qt 4 was radically different from Qt 3, and KDE 4 included a huge number of architectural changes, as well. Although it was an absolutely huge amount of work to do, but the KDE community managed to get it done within a couple of years, they got KDE 4.0 released, and it has provided them an excellent platform to build off of.

The changes for GNOME 3 are nowhere near as radical. It consists of mainly incremental improvements, with the version number being incremented to hide the fact that GNOME hasn't had a major release in almost a decade. They're not even moving to a significantly different version of GTK+ or anything like that, either. Yet this effort was started in 2008, but we aren't expecting to see anything useful from it until 2011, due to delays.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357546)

I just tried Opensuse 11.3 with KDE, and it was really shiny, but haven't seen anything that boosts productivity (and the SuSE folks even removed keyboard layout switcher widget, so overall, it was worse than my gnome-Ubuntu desktop).

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357582)

The killer feature for me -- seriously, the reason I use KDE rather than Gnome -- is the ability to make the panel vertical. It's the only reasonable way to work on a widescreen netbook.

(Yeah, Gnome kinda has vertical panels as long as you don't mind them looking horrible and lots of things breaking. No, I do not want to read sideways text, Gnome. And when I looked at some "make vertical panels work properly" bugs, the basic message from Gnome devs was "we don't use vertical panels, go fuck yourself".)

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357630)

I'd even be happy reading the sideways text, but there are several widgets (indicator widget?) that are 150ish pixels wide and do not even rotate sideways, meaning they're useless. I finally gave up and started using the panel at the top with Docky at the bottom, but perhaps it's time to have another look at KDE.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Informative)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358368)

OpenSUSE integrates very well with KDE desktop. All those little things like automatic detection of new connected monitor and mobile data connection setup are reliable and well done. It looks and feels much more polished than Kubuntu.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (-1, Offtopic)

rqg (1413223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357402)

Obvious troll is obvious.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357430)

Where?

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Interesting)

rqg (1413223) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357456)

Well, this might depend on personal experience: mine with KDE has been... unpleasant. KDE might offer more features, but they're crammed into the interface in a manner that makes their use unintuitive. Moreover, I would not say KDE offers better performance as all the installs of it that I've seen have been slugish to say the least (compared to Gnome on the same machines). Also, if it's so much better then Gnome, then why so few distro's use it as their default DE?

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Insightful)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357578)

This is coming from a Ubuntu (Gnome) user, so please blast away:

KDE needs to be heavily customized to make it usable for the Joe Public end users. Which is fine. That's what distributions do. The thing is, each distribution does it different, so the user experience with KDE can vary greatly depending on which distro he installs.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358616)

KDE needs to be heavily customized to make it usable for the Joe Public end users.

Completely false, and obviously a troll.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357586)

"Well, this might depend on personal experience"

No. You are still not getting it. You don't know the definition of the word troll. Nobody cares what tour opinion is, but we don't want you calling a legitimate poster a troll. You sir are why the mod system on Slashdot does not always work as intended. Please stop being ignorant, and learn what the terms mean, rather than spreading your ignorance like a disease.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (5, Insightful)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357724)

Q: ... then why so few distro's use it as their default DE?
A: Because there was a time, 10 years ago when Gnome was created to address a licensing problem with the library that powers KDE called QT. Gnome was built using GTK (the Gimp Tool Kit), which was GPL. KDE's QT was under a permissive commercial license that was not 100% GPL compatible. So most distributions that cared about free went the Gnome route, despite it consistently lacking features vs. KDE. At this point, KDE's QT is GPL licensed, and has been for some time and KDE has advanced significantly in capability over the past two years to the point that it's really not even close, so far as features, flexibility and technology under the hood go.

Most user complaints stem from people who used a development release (4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3) of KDE 4 and thought it would measure up to a stable release (3.5). This was made worse by Ubuntu and other distributions removing KDE 3.5 around 4.1 and 4.2 being released, meaning there was no real stable KDE release for about a year. Reality is that KDE4 didn't really become usable until v4.4 and has really come into it's own with 4.5. So far as performance goes, if your GPUs drivers are decent, KDE4 will run rings around Gnome (especially if you turn on OpenGL rendering for QT which effectively uses your GPU for rendering everything).

Really when it comes down to it, it's GREAT that there is a choice for users between KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Evolution and GNUstep. Giving users a real choice in how they interact with their computer is a really good thing because new and better ideas come from competition and exchange of ideas. It's unfortunate that people view the whole KDE vs. Gnome thing as some kid of holy war, because the holy part of the war died when QT was released under the GPL.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358016)

"Reality is that KDE4 didn't really become usable until v4.4"

that's funny. The release of 4.4 marked the day I stopped using it altogether. They decided that having 3 RDBMS (one for Amarok, one for Akonadi and one for strigi) is better than having one. They decided that Plasma and Kwin effects should come before memory leaks fixes (i.e.: Amarok) and so on.

KDE is more advanced technically but it's constantly lacking a certain amount of refinement that would make the project far better than competing DEs.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1, Informative)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358718)

You, sir, are ignorant.

"They" did not decide anything. Because "they" are different groups of developers working along in the same community, but doing completely different stuff. You clearly have no idea how open source works (in fact how software development works: I don't think the guys responsible for MS Office consult much with the guys responsible for the media player component of windows...) And you hide your fundamental ignorance under the usage of technical-sounding acronyms.

As for the 3 DBs...

1) you can configure each of these applications to use the system one if you so wish
2) memory overhead is tiny, so you could argue that the extra robustness could be worth it
3) your comment is akin to saying "I will not use this app, because it was coded by a vegetarian, and I think this is abhorrent". This is not even broken logic, it is no logic at all.
4) do you think flat files would be better? Do you _know_? No clearly, you just spout ignorant opinions.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Insightful)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358456)

Most user complaints stem from people who used a development release (4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3) of KDE 4 and thought it would measure up to a stable release (3.5).

Maybe they should consider using appropriate labels then for those "development releases". Maybe stick an Alpha there, a Beta here, you know, something helpful.

Regardless, I can't stand KDE4. As mentioned all over, the interface is incredibly cluttered. While I don't like Gnome for not including more easily accessible advanced options which could be simply hidden/buried one level down, until the KDE developers learn to keep things simple and bury their options hardly anyone uses, and basically actually start heeding user interface design and workflow, Gnome will have to continue to be my DE of choice.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (4, Insightful)

Burz (138833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358630)

It's unfortunate that people view the whole KDE vs. Gnome thing as some kid of holy war

That almost couldn't be helped, since Gnome was explicitly created to try to kill off KDE (if you think that choice of words is harsh, you should read what some of the Gnome founders said back in the day). Gnome was created with a negative goal, and I think that underlying fact prevented them from excelling.

I now use Gnome only because distros tend to write their system settings UIs for Gnome first and then forget to write some of them for the KDE flavor.

The main problem KDE has is one of "sensible defaults", or lack thereof. A lot of buttons and functions that should be optional and looked-for by advanced users is pushed right in your face by default. Trying to coach new users on KDE (4.x especially) has been exasperating. The default KDE configuration should be nearly as simple as Gnome; Neither DE is trying to find a good balance in that regard.

Another problem is that people coming to a Linux distro have to be aware of things like "DE" apart from what their OS is. I usually find people understand when I first explain, but forget basic details and start to feel confused on the subject a couple of months later. Its one of the things that makes them reject "Linux" in the end.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (2, Informative)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357758)

For a long time QT was closed source. Then they opensourced it, but only under the GPL license. That pretty much forced comercial distros to ship the only viable toolkit with a sane license (but insane internal architecture) - Glib/GTK. Using Gnome instead of KDE was reasonable for them I suppose. QT was relicensed to LGPL very recently, so I will take a lot of time to change the status quo - if that ever happens.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357436)

Obvious gnome is obvious

Strong Opinion != Troll (4, Insightful)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357452)

A troll is not "Somebody who states facts you don't like, in a way you don't like". It is also not "Someone who has strong opinions, and isn't afraid to state them.": While I think that claiming that Gnome "is of little value these days" is taking things a bit far, it would be foolish to argue that KDE is not leaps and bounds ahead. In fact, about 4 months ago I did an update of the dev branch of my favorite distro and the KDE packaging was broken (Not KDE's fault for those who don't understand Linux distribution), causing me to wind up in Gnome instead. I was not only thoroughly disgusted, but as a one time Gnome advocate (circa 1990's as the GP indicates) it has certainly fallen far behind KDE for use on modern systems. If you are using older hardware then KDE may not be for you, however, thereby making Gnome a WM that has some use.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357482)

I actually agree with you, but please distinguish DEs and WMs. KWin and Matacity are WMs.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357522)

Excellent point, and I acknowledge that I should have said DE. Maybe KDE could come up with a way to remind me that it is a Desktop Environment ;-)

For those following along at home, Compiz is another example of a Window Manager, but Gnome and KDE are definitely Desktop Environments, and I was wrong, wrong, wrong [wikipedia.org] about that particular detail.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (2, Interesting)

TitusC3v5 (608284) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357790)

The technology behind KDE4.x is certainly several steps ahead of Gnome, but in terms of stability, I've yet to use KDE4 for any period of time without dealing with multiple application crashes. Whether this is a KDE problem or the applications themselves, I'm not sure, but it keeps me tied to Gnome for the time being for my day to day needs.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358156)

As a daily KDE user, the only crashes I experience are from Amarok, and then because I am using the VLC Phonon backend (which isn't fully stable, but is getting there). It makes Amarok crash on exit and somewhat rarely when changing songs.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

TheCycoONE (913189) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358438)

I get crashes in system settings sometimes, and I have a friend who gets crashes in konq frequently. There are a few parts of KDE that are very crash prone and daily users learn to avoid them without thinking about it.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358664)

Wait, this is scary! An app (VLC) that twists my Mac's bluetooth audio into catatonic spasms is being used as an audio back end??

Yikes...

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358708)

And how is that relevant in any way, shape or form? You _are_ aware that Mac quite probably isn't even a prioritized platform for the vlc people, and that the entire audio system on you Mac have about zilch in common with the one used in Linux? Vlc is welcome to assrape your Mac for all I care, as long as it works as advertised otherwise.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358770)

It would be helpful if you could provide more information such as KDE version in the form 4.X.X, as 4.x has no meaning in this context. I guarantee you that KDE 4.4.3 is stable. In fact I have been using KDE 4.x for more than a year, and all the versions I have used have in that time frame been stable. There were certainly stability issues in very early KDE 4 releases, however those have been ironed out for some time.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357980)

No, but a good troll is indistinguishable from those things. This Anonymous Coward has clearly posted a very subtly crafted troll.

Re:Strong Opinion != Troll (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358758)

"No, but a good troll is indistinguishable from those things. This Anonymous Coward has clearly posted a very subtly crafted troll."

He has done no such thing. You, however, I am not so sure about ;-)

Hint: The post, even if made by a troll, is not a troll post when indistinguishable from a non-troll post. Why? Thought provoking intelligent discussion is not an artifact of a troll post.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357424)

KDE is offers more features, better performance, greater reliability, and just an overall better experience in every way.

Better experience? Riiight. Let me tell you something: the K stands for krap.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

Jello B. (950817) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357718)

heh

wait, no

groan

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

rumith (983060) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357494)

It might be an interesting development if in 5 years we abandon both KDE and Gnome, and use ChromiumOS or its forks instead

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357618)

Or run screaming away from excessive bloatware and switch back to twm, maybe vtwm if you need well managed virtual windows. I do this to avoid the excessive clutter, and gigabytes of useless components of either Gnome or KDE for lightweight environments.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358174)

Depending on the setup, you can get GNOME and KDE in under 500 MB of RAM, so they're not too bloated.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

slacknatcher (1902820) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358628)

i support this, i got this mania for making my system faster and reduce memory footprint, right now when i start my desktop KDE 4.5 linux on a radeon HD card, thw whole system is using 169 Mb of ram, consider this is a 64 bit system (so use a little bit more ram) and a quadcore. i would say that those who complaint about kde (and gnome) beeing bloated and slow doesn't know how to configurate a system :)

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (4, Insightful)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357738)

Why wait 5 years. I never liked KDE nor GNOME. Started with Enlightenment, then went to Windowmaker and now use XFCE due to multiscreen/multi desktop issues.

In the end all I want is something that places the programs somewhere on my screen. But many people are lured by bling instead of productivity. That is the price you pay for thinking that you need as many users as possible.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358396)

You should know that it's not about window manager at all. It's about applications that are made using chosen toolkit. I use KDE and 99% of applications i use are made using KDE/QT. That makes them work well together and experience is constant. Also nothing stops me from using WindowMaker with KDE applications, but i think that would be just stupid.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (4, Insightful)

swillden (191260) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358494)

In the end all I want is something that places the programs somewhere on my screen.

Which programs? Where? On which screen? How do you move them? How do you find and launch the programs you want? How well do all of your programs integrate? How do you find specific files?

What you say is true, but misses the point. There is a huge amount that can be done to make your workflow more efficient than an environment which just requires you to manage everything yourself. I view KDE as something of an ongoing research project in this space, which is also fairly usable. There are some really cool and useful ideas in KDE right now... things like activities which, when fully completed, will allow you to define a set of applications and tools that you use together in particular ways. When you activate an activity, all of the relevant components are started and placed on-screen in the way that you want.

A simpler feature that KDE has long provided -- and which GNOME still doesn't and I don't believe Enlightenment, WindowMaker or XFCE provide -- is the ability to define per-application window settings that affect placement, sizing, etc., so that those apps always act in the defined ways. I use this to make my multiple desktops more efficient. Each of my virtual desktops holds a particular type of application, and each application is assigned to always come up on the appropriate desktop. So I never have to try to figure out which desktop a given app is on.

Comprehensive desktop search to make finding files easy, a good, efficient way to launch programs, seamless integration between applications, both local and on-line -- these are all things that a more sophisticated DE can provide. Oh, and yeah there's also eye candy, some of which has utility, and some of which is just pretty, and I do think aesthetic value is real value as well.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358500)

As long as the bling doesn't steal tons of their computer's power, most users would prefer to have both bling and productivity. Something that is nice to look at and to use to get their work done at the same time. Crazy concept, I know.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357620)

Seems to me that Gnome 3 is actually going to innovate in significant ways as opposed to KDE 4.
At the very least they're working on dynamically creating virtual desktops for applications, while the activities feature in KDE 4 is a useless gimmick. You have to create them manually, switch them manually and what do they give you? The ability to have different desktop widgets. It only appeals to the crowd that'd like to rewrite every single application into a plasmoid and have all that crap running in a single process for no better reason than a flashy widget style.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

Urkki (668283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357714)

It's time to abandon GNOME. It was useful for a short while during the 1990s, when Qt's licensing was problematic, but that's no longer an issue. GNOME has stagnated, and is of little value these days. KDE is offers more features, better performance, greater reliability, and just an overall better experience in every way.

You're obviously trolling, but you raise a valid point. However, the problem with KDE is, the desktop experience just sucks, for some people. These people, me included, start to get annoyed with KDE as soon as they try to use it. Give us an alternative desktop experience, something GNOME-like, and I'm sure KDE would have tons of converts.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (3, Insightful)

Bigos (857389) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357804)

GNOME has stagnated, and is of little value these days. KDE is offers more features, better performance, greater reliability, and just an overall better experience in every way.

What is the point in relentless chase for more features? I am pleased with spartan Gnome, and to me it offers better experience. People have different tastes, and beauty of Linux is that you can choose different desktop without being forced to use something you don't like. In my opinion it would be better if more energy was spent on adding features and polishing various applications instead of desktop environments.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358554)

It would be nice if applications could use a single API for Linux in general, and the program would be rendered appropriately for the DE the user happened to be in. This would destroy the whole "this app is KDE, this app is Gnome" thing. If you could just standardize the API for every service an application needed, whether it be a clip board, or a key store, or a network service, having some good standards/APIs so that apps could be shared between both DE's more would certainly help the Linux ecosystem.

I am glad that there is a lot of recycling due to apps using the same libraries and back ends though, I just wish the front ends could be recycled too.

Re:GNOME keeps falling further and further behind. (1)

mtemmerm (1604279) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358658)

I'm a long time GNOME user myself, and have tried the new KDE release for a couple of days... I absolutely have to disagree. I was happy coming back to GNOME. I find the performance of KDE to be on par with GNOME, with GNOME far outperforming KDE in terms of stability. Also I don't like the overkill KDE is using in its interface, I find it too distracting to get any real work done. It probably all comes down to personal preference? I like running more minimalistic GUI's as opposed to having the GUI in your face all the time.

MicroLords (-1, Troll)

udippel (562132) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357458)

OpenSUSE had packages up almost immediately

So Suse once became Novell, and
Novell once became Attachmate, and
Attachmate is a business partner of Microsoft, and
Microsoft bought some Intellectual Property from Novell ...

"Thanks to our new overlords, KDE SC 4.6 was made available almost immediately to the community"

4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (3, Interesting)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357462)

I've played around a bit with KDE 4.x (don't remember exact version) in Ubuntu 10.04, but I wasn't very impressed. It look very slick, gives a feeling of advanced tech under the hood, but:

After fiddling with settings for hours, I concluded it's too much work to get settings to suit my taste. Do a setting here, and something else doesn't work quite how you want it. Try a setting there, and it doesn't do what you expect, or you see no effect at all. Only to find later there was some override that caused previous setting to be ignored.

I don't have time for this crap, a desktop environment is just one of many things you have to configure when customizing an OS, it shouldn't take a day to wander through its configuration. This wouldn't be a problem if defaults are chosen well enough that you're done with changing very few things from the default, but that's not the case. From what I understand, SuSE offers one of the best out-of-the-box KDE experiences, but hey I'm not changing distro's just to have nice defaults on the desktop environment.

To me, it comes across as a typical case of too much unnecessary complexity - users don't care, they just want something that they can get familiar with in a short time. And where they can easily find the most important settings. Beyond that, additional complexity just wasts memory, CPU cycles & developer time. Which is really a shame given all the effort that goes into a project like KDE. Disclaimer: that's just my current impression, maybe these things are much improved in later releases like the one reviewed here...

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (-1, Flamebait)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357498)

PEBCAK. KDE is useful in its default settings. As a rank n00b, you probably should try to get to know it before fiddling with settings you don't understand.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357524)

Look, it's a Linux user trying to do his best to make sure Linux never gets widely adopted. How quaint.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (3, Insightful)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357544)

I have 0 problems getting around / get work done on KDE (any version), and have regularly used KDE for day-to-day work years ago. My point was it just takes too much time to get to know it (well). Especially for ordinary users, who don't have the patience a power-user might have. With that as a given, anything that a n00b user (count me out) can't find quickly, is lost on that user. And you'll have to agree that non-power users are the vast majority of desktop users.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (4, Interesting)

Teun (17872) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357746)

Neither am I a n00b.

And that's exactly what pisses me off in Gnome, there is so little to configure, except for a theme you more or less have to accept what the developers gave you.

But the people who's private computers I keep running are quite happy with the configurability of KDE, the standard set up is OK and some of them get quite adventurous once they understand the power of the right-click.
They have mainly older single processor machines with a max. of 1GB RAM and even then it is a beautiful and responsive desktop without the weaknesses of Windows.

More than once visitors who saw some of the options I showed them (especially in Dolphin) asked how to enable them in Windows 7 :)

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (2, Informative)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357588)

Exactly. It is a PEBCAK thing. KDE does not required any fiddling for the average user and is very usable out-of-the box, even those versions distros have tried to "personalize". I run only kde straight from source and even there for the newb it does not require any fiddling about at all. Even so, I still like to twiddle with the settings simply because I can and do not need dropping to a terminal to do so; and there is a slew of them that can be changed using the systemsettings. But I do have to agree with TFA about Activities. Still trying to wrap my brain around that and just what I would use them for.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (5, Insightful)

Jahava (946858) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357674)

PEBCAK. KDE is useful in its default settings. As a rank n00b, you probably should try to get to know it before fiddling with settings you don't understand.

Really? This is the attitude you chose to go with?

What we have here is an OP who gave an honest and accurate critique of his/her experience with KDE. Simple as that. They thought it was too complicated, and that the complexity wasn't valuable. It didn't work in a manner that they desired, and that resulted in them disliking the software. This is exactly the kind of feedback the KDE team wants. All of the OP's problems should not exist - that's one of the KDE team's design goals. The OP's impressions, experiences, and feedback could, if funneled down to the right people, result in a superior desktop experience for everyone.

Instead you are quick to dismiss and blame the OP as incompetent and useless. This valuable feedback, while dismaying in the sense that it depicts a KDE team failure, is extremely useful for both parties. The user seems open and interested in thoroughly using the product, and the design team wants to create a product the user wishes to use. A person with the slightest (a) intuition, or (b) training in psychology and human-computer interfaces would tell you that this type of cooperation between developer and end-user is priceless. But here we have you, whose attitude is one of the stronger cancers on the open-source community.

Not every product is for everyone, but mainstream desktop environments and window managers are the exception. Creating a central piece of software as complex and feature-rich as KDE is extremely challenging. For any given use-case scenario, KDE has to provide a direct and obvious path to an end-goal while ensuring that every other feature keeps a low profile. This is hard stuff, and KDE is groundbreaking in their approach. Their team has developers, artists, engineers, managers, and designers all striving for this goal. The OP is a critical piece in that puzzle.

And as a disclaimer, I do, and probably always will, love KDE. KDE4 started out weak (by design) and is building towards an amazing desktop environment. Every subsequent release provides marked progress towards that ideal. I hope we get an entire gamut of feedback from every possible class of user, because that gives the KDE developers the kind of information they need to make good design decisions towards an ideal desktop environment.

Assholes like you really need to stop getting in the way of that ideal.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357826)

Well said that man. Way too many arrogant wankers in the OS community. PEBKAC would more appropriately apply to the dick you've so comprehensively put down.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (4, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357896)

My two points are:
* KDE isn't complicated in general use.
* The user chose the option to delve into the system and fiddle with things. That's the PEBCAK part. Not incompetence as much as misguided geekiness. It's your own fault if you spend hours tweaking instead of simply using a tool the way it's designed.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

mobets (101759) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358048)

What would be the point of having options available to tweak if they are unusable?

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358194)

Because someone, somewhere, finds them useful? People like all kinds of crazy things, or even different things.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358752)

Well I have to coach novices to Ubuntu when I make a decision to "go around MS" for clients. I gotta tell you: KDE 4.x is a nightmare to coach people on. Its very, very intimidating as its constantly throwing (useless) visual cues at the user such as control panels that always slide out of windows when you mouse over them. KDE defaults are too confusing and I quickly found out that people won't put up with it.

Windows-like chrome does not make a UI as sensible to use as Windows.

As for myself, I now use OS X and try to point people in that direction when a Windows alternative is called-for.

Exactly. I was a KDE4 early adopter (2, Informative)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358286)

because I was a longtime Fedora (since Fedora 1) and KDE (since KDE 1.0 Beta 3) user. When Fedora 9 (I believe) shipped with KDE4, I installed and determinedly used it for about a month and a half before it became clear that it was a time sink, unstable, poorly integrated, lacking in features and documentation and so on. It was, frankly, in my way.

Between Fedora 9 and Fedora 12 I used GNOME and logged into KDE periodically to see whether things had improved.

Throughout it all I submitted multiple bug reports and got back a whole bunch of WONTFIX, RESOLVED that didn't fix the problem at all, and instructions that if I wanted something fixed, I would have to do it myself. Each successive release would break any progress I'd made in getting the previous release to work the way that I wanted/needed it to, and major need didn't get addressed in either environment. And then GNOME announced the whole GNOME Shell fiasco to match the KDE4 fiasco and I immediately switched to Mac OS.

I still have a Linux install on my system (had been a Linux user since '93), but I only use it to do a few serious technical/maintenance tasks, which means that it rarely (once every 2-3 months) gets started.

Looking across the field at Firefox, OpenOffice, and Linux these days, it's starting to seem as though OSS is in danger of losing relevance.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358698)

It's anything but honest and accurate. KDE4 works quite well with little to no customization.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357572)

Exactly, I feel the same way.

Well, except for the "looks slick" part. To this day it still looks like a cartoon desktop.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (3, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357592)

[..] users don't care, they just want something that they can get familiar with in a short time.

Users do not - but professionals do.

All the little things chip time very fast - the time I'd rather did something useful, instead of bunch of mousewavings, modern desktops tend to impose on me. That's where the hundreds/thousands little options come into play: they allow user to remove the road bumps from the daily workflow.

That's why highly customizable desktops like KDE/Flux/WM/IceWM/etc would remain popular: many who graduate from being an end-user find GNOME, after getting "familiar" with it, quite limiting.

Though sure if you spend 90% of time in Evolution and FireFox, then you pretty much do not care what desktop you run and the whole argument about the desktop environments becomes moot.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357644)

I've played around a bit with KDE 4.x (don't remember exact version) in Ubuntu 10.04, but I wasn't very impressed. It look very slick, gives a feeling of advanced tech under the hood, but:

After fiddling with settings for hours, I concluded it's too much work to get settings to suit my taste. Do a setting here, and something else doesn't work quite how you want it. Try a setting there, and it doesn't do what you expect, or you see no effect at all. Only to find later there was some override that caused previous setting to be ignored.

I don't have time for this crap, a desktop environment is just one of many things you have to configure when customizing an OS, it shouldn't take a day to wander through its configuration.

You are not customizing OS when you are customizing the desktop (there is no more K Desktop Environment, there is a KDE SC what is a brand for different technologies what are released at same time, like Plasma Desktop, Plasma Netbook and Plasma Mobile or Plasma Media Center and then KDE platform and KDE apps). If you want to customize the OS, then you do it only by patching the Linux (or any other monolithic kernel) and compiling it with your own settings. All other software is configuring them and not the OS.

Which is really a shame given all the effort that goes into a project like KDE. Disclaimer: that's just my current impression, maybe these things are much improved in later releases like the one reviewed here...

Clearly you do not know what you are talking about as KDE is not project, it is a community what is managing multiple different projects and many of those projects gets released in KDE SC.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

devent (1627873) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358124)

After fiddling with settings for hours, I concluded it's too much work to get settings to suit my taste. Do a setting here, and something else doesn't work quite how you want it. Try a setting there, and it doesn't do what you expect, or you see no effect at all. Only to find later there was some override that caused previous setting to be ignored.

Can you give a few examples? Everything in KDE can be setup in the Settings. It's pretty stread forward and easy to do. But you really don't need to "fiddling" with it for hours. The KDE desktop is easy to use out of the box.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358164)

I use Linux every day for everything. I demo it to customers. Most are awe inspired by it, by what it does, how it looks, and that it is free. I have used Linux in my business for the past 4 years as servers, diagnostic machines, workstations for myself and for customers. One thing I have noticed is that if I set someone down in front of Linux without telling them about it, even those who know little to nothing about computers, they'll begin using it as if it were Windows. So please don't get me wrong. I genuinely want to have these issues fixed, but the devs seem to have their own agenda which doesn't always match that of the user.

No doubt KDE (yes, even 4.6) needs some work. The designers seem to have a mindset that they are right, about all things. There's nary an effort to recognize the wisdom of the users.

One thing that currently bites at me is that there's a bug where if you drag and drop a file or folder onto another on the desktop (such as dropping a file into a folder) all the icons realign to the left side of the desktop, thus wiping out any folder and file organization you have. To top that off it is a well reported bug that is extremely annoying to the average user. One of the bug reports has it marked as important and fixes have been made, but not completely. Due to this it became clear, from reading the comments by the devs, that there would be need to change many places in the code to fix it. That leads me to believe that it is quite messy.

It used to be that any attempt to do something on the desktop would cause the icons to realign. If you made a link it would happen. If you created a folder it would happen. If you deleted a file it would happen. If you moved a file into a folder it would happen. They cured some of them but they seem to have abandoned the rest so we still have to deal with the issue and it is very annoying.

I have used KDE from 4.2 and up, up until this problem cropped up. What's worse is that this problem occurred a few releases back and was fixed. Now it's back and only partially fixed.

Gnome has a simpler aspect to itself, though it too is messy and can annoy you. Clicking too fast with the right mouse button can and will cause gnome to choose the option under the cursor when the menu pops up. That has been reported over and over to the gnome devs but no one will take the time and effort to resolve it. It is one aspect that shows gnome to be messy and unpolished.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358218)

I agree. I think KDE has very good programmers, from the top of the field, but they need professional artists(paid, full time) and people really experts on UI, because sadly they are not, and default config is too complex(it was last time I tested KDE one year ago).

Today Windows 7 or macOSX offer a simple configuration that works, ubuntu do that too with Gnome, but the Ubuntu default themes are just so Ugly that it hurts. They copy MacOSX but only on the bad things(buttons up-left but ugly instead of beutiful, background universe image but then completely different colors on different places that doesn't mach, like dark colors with bright ones).

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358240)

That purple theme has to go. I was looking at an older version of a default install of Mac OSX and I can see where they got the idea.

Re:4.x KDE releases failed to impress me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358532)

I've tried KDE 4.x at a couple of different versions, most recently KDE 4.4.5 in Debian Squeeze and I can say that they have put a lot of work in that I can see in resolving some of the settings inconsistencies. The first time I tried it (one of the 4.1 versions, can't remember exactly) it was a bitch, there were graphical glitches and many instances of duplicated/redundant/conflicting settings in System Settings that made it a horrible experience. I couldn't get the screensaver to stop kicking in, I'd set every setting relating to power management, screen saver, display management that I could find but the goddamn thing would still kick in after 10 mins. Nuke and write off. I just switched to Squeeze last week and it's a far better experience. System settings has been streamlined and simplified, I haven't had any issues with duplicates (which is not to say they don't exist, just I haven't had to scrap with them). Suffice it to say, they've made great strides.

www.techknackblogs.com (0, Troll)

techknackblogs (1942142) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357478)

coool...looking forward to use it... :)

"Service Temporarily Unavailable" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357500)

I've never had a good experience with the KDE beta software, works abous as well as the pages "Service Temporarily Unavailable".

Arch Linux had already (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357516)

It is nice to hear that openSUSE got now packages as Arch Linux had packages ready in [kde-unstable] repository since the files were tagged.
I believe Mandriva has in few days (if not already).

Nice. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357550)

I definitly like the release, because now that they've got the big things sorted out (like having a git plugin for dolphin and making desktop effects smoother), maybe they will now have some time to look into the details (you know, like getting printing to work, stop kmail from crashing when fetching emails, or giving the music player amarok a little more than just a play-button).

I have not liked KDE for quite a while (2, Interesting)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357552)

I stayed away from the 4.x serious in particular. not least because of all the Akondai stuff. I think a DE should be as minimal as possible...provide a shell, file browser, and maybe some basic applications. KDE seems to want to manage everything, and there is so much stuff running in the background that I have no idea what is needed and what is not. I also think it is somewhat childish to start every application with a K...but hey.

I should note that I am arguing from ignorance here about my knowledge of the workings, just my brief experiences. But, that is the impression I got. Is there any truth to it, and if there is, why has the KDE team gone down that road?

It seems to be less about configurability and themes and more to do with how much you think your DE should be responsible for.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1, Interesting)

Cwix (1671282) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357602)

I also think it is somewhat childish to start every application with a K...but hey.

Yea and Microsoft should stop naming things like Windows DVD Maker, Windows Live Mail, and Windows Media Center.

Wait.. whats your point again?

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (2)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357948)

Sure, Because as far as names go Kontakt oozes professionalism and reliability just like Windows Live Mail. Wait, what?

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358192)

That's disingenuous. Most KDE apps are selected from the menu and have descriptive names. The executable may be obscure yet when you look at the executables from Microsoft's product they too use obscure naming.

Virtually everything under Gnome and KDE is presented with descriptive names, because they too are just links to the executable (just like Windows).

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

apoc.famine (621563) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358736)

Funny thing is that if MS did stop calling things MS* and Windows*, there would be cries of duplicity and deception.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (2, Insightful)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357622)

Here's what's going on:

1. Akonadi - makes sense now that most people have big address books, have to sync calendar & contact data with multiple cloud based services and have multiple email addresses. The idea is much like an SQL server: let MySQL do the storage and retrieval work, and let the client application focus on logic. It's a great idea, but it's taken some time to get the implementation right. One of the real reasons that there are only a few viable desktop PIM applications is that you have an amazing amount of code to maintain to store and retrieve data. The Akonadi model will really pay off as developers start using it to integrate PIM data into their applications.
2. All the stuff running in the background: check the service manager in system settings. Now, if we could only get the program name reported to ps to be the same as the clear, easy to understand description in the service manager.
3. Well... there's AmaroK, BasKet, Okular and many others that don't start with K. It is actually nice though to be able to quickly see what is KDE and what isn't by the file name.
4. The recent two releases have really cleaned up a lot of the nagging problems KDE has had since the 4.0 change. The desktop is rock solid now.

You have to be kidding about configurability and themes, though. Even our desktop themes (see QTCurve & Bespin) and window decoration themes (see DeKorator & Arorae) have themes.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357962)

So, wait, Akondai is just PIM stuff? I thought I remember it clashing with sound daemon of some sort. I wonder if Akondai needs to be on every PC, when most people are storing their stuff, at least contacts in the cloud. Why replicate it in many places? Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

udippel (562132) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358066)

The desktop is rock solid now.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=201620 [kde.org]
is the bug for your taste. Filed on July 27, 2009 and until now without activities from the side of KDE, but close to 20 duplicates, because everyone is running into it all the time.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

Ralphus Maximus (594419) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358458)

Here's what's going on:

1. Akonadi - ... It's a great idea, but it's taken some time to get the implementation right.

They still don't have the implementation right. My latest install is less than 3 months old, I finally get it to where is loads on boot. This is the first time since KDE 4.0. Now, I boot the box, the cpu is maxed. Kill -9 Akonadi, kill -9 the indexer, kill -9 a few other related services, and guess what, no fscking contacts. Restart Kontact. Rinse-repeat until Akonadi decides it wants to cooperate.

I can't trust Kontact to safeguard my contacts anymore. The idea of Kontact is great! It really is a great PIM. But they need to get far, far away from that piece of shit Akonadi. Until they do, or make it bulletproof, Kontact is useless. And that's a real shame.

Cheers,
RM

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (4, Funny)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357642)

I also think it is somewhat childish to start every application with a K...but hey.

FWIW this trend has been going away with the 4.x series. The default file manager is Dolphin, image viewer Gwenview and so on. And FFS, they're just names, it's not like many gnome programs don't start with a G, and iM iSure iOther iExamples iExist.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358238)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLPHIN!!!!!!!11

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (2, Insightful)

mickwd (196449) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357726)

"I also think it is somewhat childish to start every application with a K...but hey."

And then Apple copied them with the letter i, and I've never heard anyone describe that as childish.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358798)

And then Apple copied them with the letter i, and I've never heard anyone describe that as childish.

Um, dude, that's cuz names like "iChat" and "iWork" make some sense.

Think about it. Prepending a 'K' or 'Gn' onto most names does little to help a user identify with them.

Re:I have not liked KDE for quite a while (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357810)

Names aren't that important anyway - the distro I'm using lists them by function first, name second. (Eg, Ktorrent's listed as 'Bittorrent Client', with 'Ktorrent' barely visible underneath. When you think about it, that makes sense - and end user doesn't really care what the tool's called, just what it does.

Most of the time a name doesn't tell you anything useful about the program anyway. Firefox for example - what the hell is a firefox? Why is it in my computer?

Here's a direct link to a screenshot from TFA (0, Flamebait)

moonbender (547943) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357594)

A picture says more than a thousand words? From TFA:
  http://everydaylht.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/snapshot1.png [everydaylht.com]

Re:Here's a direct link to a screenshot from TFA (1)

Jello B. (950817) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357646)

what's your point, that the dude that wrote the article has terrible taste in his customized theme?

That's all...? (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357616)

Wow, after such a long delay since 4.5 I expected...something else. 4.5 was a specially troubling release for me, and I see no indication of the introduced misbehaviors being fixed...I'll go cry in a corner.

Re:That's all...? (2, Informative)

Jello B. (950817) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357664)

long delay? they release every six months

Re:That's all...? (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358232)

But the bugs and annoyances in effect exist since 4.5 beta. It's really annoying.
Stuff like gtk icons vanishing at *random* from the systray, odd focus issues (many apps never focus text input by default, making a quick "open program and search" take more steps than it should) and annoyances with the notification system, and plasma can randomly eat a lot of RAM for no apparent reason, even without using any plasmoid.
Kwin's effects aiming for usability (such as zoom and present windows) still haven't had a single tweak, the former being impossible to use with the mouse (I have a hand handicap, compiz supports it, but I require kwin's window settings) and the later still being unable to present windows using proper spacing (a 4x4 grid has a lot of empty space and minuscule windows, no matter your settings).
Krusader (now an official part of KDE) still hasn't fixed the "run every program you double-click into $HOME/Documents" bug, because no one takes care of the kdelibs bug causing it. A filemanager that can't run double-clicked apps in 2010. Please.

KDE4 has been having a long story of tiny annoyances being left unfixed. This is the reason people is so divided about it. On one hand you have a lot of almost exclusive things that are incredibly good. Things that save time, things that you can set up to your tastes. GOOD things.
On the other hand you have a lot of tiny annoyances, strange little bugs, and decisions like starting Akonadi just because you placed a clock in your panel. The network manager app still does nothing here, forcing me to use the gtk version. It's been in this state for a couple years at least.
They really need to start reading the brainstorm pages, fix little bugs and try to do something like Ubuntu's papercuts. They can't focus a full release on polishing only the fetish of the moment.

is it stable? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357688)

seriously, if it keeps crashing, is there even a reason to try it?

Re:is it stable? (2, Informative)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358234)

When you see the icons on the Windows desktop change to generic and then slowly back to their icon that's the windows desktop manager crashing and reloading.

KDE doesn't crash on me. Yes, programs can and do crash, but to say that KDE crashes all the time indicates you have something wrong with your system.

Year of Quanta4? (1)

JoeCommodore (567479) | more than 3 years ago | (#34357716)

Is this the year they finally port Quanta to KDE4?

Re:Year of Quanta4? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34357976)

not yet.
see milian's blog: http://milianw.de/tag/quanta

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