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Windows Phone 7 Sales Continue To Struggle

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the clippy-to-the-rescue dept.

Microsoft 351

rtfa-troll writes "Even with the pre-Christmas buying rush, Microsoft is already desperately offering a new buy one get one free offer similar to the ones they gave for the KIN. According to the article, 'Windows Phone 7 devices can't even manage two per cent of the fortnight's sales.' These aren't official Microsoft figures; they come from online shopping sites. But since Microsoft official sales figures seem subject to manipulation, this is perhaps one of the better guesses we will get at the success of Windows Phone 7 until well into next year. This also strongly backs up other reports of deeply disappointing phone sales. Even Microsoft supporters have been wondering for a while whether it's time for Ballmer to go. If the sales reports are true, then he may be pushed before he jumps."

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351 comments

Less editorialization please (4, Insightful)

saleenS281 (859657) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358462)

BOGO offers are in no way a sign of desperation. WTF is wrong with the submitter, and Soulskill? Android has been doing BOGO's or outright free phones for months/years now. Is it "desperate" or "in trouble" or running with "disappointing sales"? Hey, let's all hate on Microsoft without a shred of evidence, it's slashdot!

Re:Less editorialization please (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358550)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers. LOL, bunch of poseur wannabes

Re:Less editorialization please (2, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358582)

Not really, just because we're using Windows doesn't mean that we like it. But for a lot of us there's an app or service which isn't available on Linux and we haven't paid for Apple hardware so we'd have to go Hacintosh if we were going to use OSX.

Re:Less editorialization please (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358862)

Somehow I'm not surprised that some jackass would mod that troll. What's next modding something troll for pointing out the sky is blue?

Re:Less editorialization please (1)

mrclisdue (1321513) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358950)

Alas: Windows, Linux, Apple, Hacintosh, OSX...all in a single paragraph. How can there not be something trollish?

Re:Less editorialization please (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358908)

If there is room in your heart, there is room on your hard drive. Embrace your inner penguin.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359024)

...we haven't paid for Apple hardware so we'd have to go Hacintosh if we were going to use OSX.

Alert: PC users seen smiling suspiciously after giving the Dell Dude a sex change...

Re:Less editorialization please (5, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358688)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers. LOL, bunch of poseur wannabes

[citation needed]

Yes, a large portion of the visitors to slashdot use Windows. Then again, when compared to the general population, a large portion don't.

That so many Windows users see value in, and frequent, a site that is definitely pro-linux/bsd/open source, and what is arguably, even with all the "web 2.0" junk, the most influential tech forum on the net, says that Ballmer is right when Microsoft tells the SEC that linux and open source are the biggest threat to Microsoft.

Think about it - even with less than 1% of the desktop, and being distributed for free, it's more of a threat than Apple, who are worth more than Microsoft.

I don't call them poseur wannabes - I call them fresh blood :-)

The alternative would be an echo chamber.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358768)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers. LOL, bunch of poseur wannabes

[citation needed]

Yes, a large portion of the visitors to slashdot use Windows (at work). Then again, when compared to the general population, a large portion don't at home.

People goofing off at work are generally forced to use windows by company rules. People choose what they want at home. A massive difference.

Re:Less editorialization please (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359126)

Think about it - even with less than 1% of the desktop, and being distributed for free, it's more of a threat than Apple, who are worth more than Microsoft.

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Linux is a threat to MS in the enterprise/server space while Apple is not. On the desktop, Linux is by far and wide not nearly as much of a threat as Apple.

Re:Less editorialization please (1)

camperslo (704715) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358892)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers.

You were expecting sinners to be kicked out of the church of the Penguin and the Leopard?

In the spirit of the season and transition, welcome the followers of the Turkey as we sacrifice it!

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358932)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers.

What's really telling is not which one you have, but which one you think about when you masturbate.

Re:Less editorialization please (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358962)

Which is funny because if you look at the web stats of Slashdot, 90% of visitors are using Windows computers. LOL, bunch of poseur wannabes

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Re:Less editorialization please (3, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358574)

Additionally, Microsoft licenses the OS to manufacturers (like HTC, Samsung, etc) who sell to carriers (Verizon, ATT, Sprint, etc) who sell to consumers. Carriers take a loss on the phone to make money on the monthly charges for the next 2+ years. Carriers set the "retail" price and BOGO offers, not Microsoft/Google, not HTC/Samsung/LG/Motorola.

Re:Less editorialization please (2, Informative)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358886)

Even better than that, the phones they're offering are the HTC Surround, LG Quantum or the Samsung Focus - not the more popular phones such as the Omnia or the HD7, which one can learn from other sources [eweek.com] are selling like the proverbial hot cakes.

A poor attempt, really.

smart phones... no longer interesting (2, Interesting)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358942)

The only functionality I use in my phone these days is the address book. Everything else I do through my iPad. If they'd add phone capabilities to the iPad (a bluetooth earpiece and adding a CDMA radio would do it) then I wouldn't even need a "phone" per se. Sure, I want to carry lots of functionality, but the tiny, tiny universe of a phone's screen just doesn't cut it anymore -- the iPad simply crushed that whole domain for me.

As I'm carrying the iPad anyway, much less cumbersome and easier to use than a laptop, I surely am not tempted by Windows Phone 7, or iPhone, or Android. Once I took the step of deciding the iPad was worth carrying, smartphones simply became annoying.

Hopefully Apple/Jobs will see the opportunity and run with it. Add a couple of cameras, phone capability, perhaps an IR emitter for controlling my home widgetry... hopefully get rid of that ridiculous expanse of bezel and design in a decent grip on the backside... wireless charging and wireless sync... now that's what I'm talking about. That's how to get my money. [waves money around cheerily]

Even if such a wonder doesn't get made, it still boils down to phone+address book is all I have to go for right now. And I have to say, it's a relief to be able to skip every Engadget and Gizmodo post that is about a phone -- cuts my reading time down to a fraction of what it used to be, while the reality of it all cuts my phone bill down at the same time (because my phone is now a cheapie LG with no "data plan"), and all the while I've got more power and usability (particularly with regard to display real estate and touch surface) at hand -- with free wifi -- than can be crammed into the tiny bit of real estate smartphone designs provide. :)

Re:Less editorialization please (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358588)

It's gotten to a point where whenever I see a slashdot article about Microsoft, I can automatically assume it's exaggerated sensationalized editorialized crap that doesn't represent anything close to the truth.

This site has become an absolute joke. I can't comprehend why anyone takes it seriously anymore. It seems the only reason I come back is so that I can laugh at the moonbats who so desperately want to distort reality.

Re:Less editorialization please (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358692)

Say hi to Ballmer if you pass him in the hall...

Re:Less editorialization please (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358762)

LOL, so predictable. Say anything pointing out this sites insane bias, and you get accused of being a Microsoft employee. Awesome. Couldn't be further from the truth.

Just keep jerking off in the echo-chamber. And every year you'll still wonder why Loonix still isn't accepted by anyone except sad pathetic nerds.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359128)

You don't know what you're talking about. I use it, my girlfriend uses it, and my mother uses it. My mother is pretty computer illiterate, and she has been pretty happy with the lack of problems so far (with so far being the last 5 years). It's pretty obvious to me that I would have had to offer a lot more support for that machine if it were running Windows. It is only so widespread because of continuing OEM deals that put it on every PC on the market. If there were real competition in that space, Microsoft would have lost a long time ago.

Re:Less editorialization please (0, Troll)

node 3 (115640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359092)

Posting AC then modding your posts Insightful doesn't make them so.

Re:Less editorialization please (2, Informative)

bieber (998013) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358598)

Without a shred of evidence? You didn't even have to RTFA, they quoted sales figures in the summary. The buy-one-get-one offer may or may not be indicative of poor sales, but I would say that actual records of being outsold many times over by your competitors definitely indicates poor sales...

Re:Less editorialization please (3, Interesting)

saleenS281 (859657) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358738)

Comparing a brand-new phone to ones that already have market-momentum is brain-dead, as has already been discussed on this forum. Android sold nowhere near as many phones their first day/week/month when it first came out. iPhone wasn't much better.

Re:Less editorialization please (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358976)

Comparing a brand-new phone to ones that already have market-momentum is brain-dead, as has already been discussed on this forum.

And, this is Windows Phone version SEVEN, as clearly described in the name of the product. This might be a brand-new phone to mobile application developers, but for the other 99.9% of the people this is just a new revision of the same old horrible Windows phone operating systems.

It doesn't help at all that this phone is being advertised as "the smartphone for people who don't want a smartphone." Good job finding that marketing niche, Microsoft. What next? Microsoft Fruit Basket 7.0, for people who hate fruit? Microsoft Electric Car 7.0, for people who hate driving?

It also doesn't help that Microsoft's idea of "synergy" doesn't even bother to include embrace, extend, and extinguish anymore. Instead of eating the competition, the divisions at Microsoft are just eating each other. They didn't make a mobile version of XBox live that works on lots of devices, but works better on Microsoft phones. They didn't make a mobile version of the Windows Media Extender that works on lots of devices, but works better on Microsoft phones. Every time Microsoft comes out with something truly cool or innovative, they never let it stand alone. They bundle it to a flailing product, and then act surprised when it all fails together.

Re:Less editorialization please (1)

Alioth (221270) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358992)

Oh really?

The Windows Phone 7 sold 40,000 units on its first day, according to TFA.

By contrast, the original iPhone sold (on June 29th/June 30th 2007 - I can't find the "first day" sales figures, just the first quarter which happens to only be the first two days of the 1st gen iPhone's sales) 270,000 units. If sales were evenly distributed amongst both days, that would mean first day sales of 135,000 units.

It must be a strange world where selling 135,000 (more than 3 times as many) is "not much better" than 40,000 units.

Re:Less editorialization please (5, Informative)

rmcd (53236) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358854)

Unless I'm missing something, it's a highly misleading summary. In the TFA, the quoted figures are from a UK price comparison site [mobilesplease.co.uk] . It's not sales, it's site visitors comparing phones.

There is a discussion of sales, but it's from an article dated Nov 9.

This is an embarrassing post, even by Slashdot standards.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358882)

Without a shred of evidence? You didn't even have to RTFA, they quoted sales figures in the summary.

No they didn't. They quoted statistics from a press release from a niche price comparison site that I guess most people here now using it as gospel had never seen or heard about before.

If you look at the rest of the numbers they have (70% of phones sold are smartphones, 30% are Android, 7% iPhones (!), 9% Symbian, etc) it is clearly junk data, released from an obscure site to generate PR for themselves.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358604)

Indeed, I recall just yesterday hearing some advertisement for an Android phone that was such an offer. I might even have seen something similar from the Blackberry. I know I've seen them along with all the various Windows Phone commercials, the only company I've not noticed advertising is Apple.

I'm sure they have though, I've probably just completely ignored it, wiping it from my memory.

Re:Less editorialization please (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358620)

It is editorializing(hardly shocking in a slashdot submission); but extremely low phone prices, on average, are actually a rather ambiguous sign for the success of a platform, depending in no small part on what the platform was intended to do.

If Windows Phone 7 was supposed to beat Apple at its own game, the fact that Apple can keep merrily having among the highest 'on-contract' prices with a shitty carrier, while MS has to basically give them away, then this is a sign that MS is failing. If, on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 is supposed to buff MS's mobile marketshare enough to court developers, ideally without hemorrhaging too much money in the process, then contract-subsidized cheap hardware is a pretty logical way of doing that. No matter how good or bad a platform is, its sales will likely be better at a somewhat lower price and developers care about how many potential customers your platform represents. Also, from a pure financial perspective, it strongly depends on who is taking the hit to make the phones that cheap. If MS is getting their licensing fee, and some hardware OEMs are getting squeezed, that will just be business as usual. If MS has been forced to offer a giant pile of 'well, legally, they aren't actually kickbacks and subsidies' then shareholder enthusiasm is going to cool, possibly fast.

Similarly, with Android, if Android is in fact Google's move into Apple's territory, then the continued low average handset price, and comparatively small market for the Google-blessed 'flagship' models is bad news. On the other hand, if(as was commonly suggested originally) Android is intended as a relatively low-cost way of kicking the dumbphones of the world in the ass and onto the internet, where they can then be used to look at Google ads, then a low handset selling price is actually a feature.

Not quite the same (1)

LinuxGeek (6139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358632)

I saw original Droid phones for 1 penny (w/ contract) just before the Droid Incredible was released by Verizon. Hardly the same as deep discounting of WP7 units a month after release.

The marketing at microsoft baffles me too. I don't know any iphone/android/blackberry users that are even remotely interested in the WP7 stuff. People are staying away in droves.

Re:Less editorialization please (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358818)

WTF is wrong with ... Soulskill?

I thought we established the other day that soulskill was a kdawson sock-puppet.

Re:Less editorialization please (4, Funny)

Threni (635302) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358954)

> BOGO offers are in no way a sign of desperation.

Exactly. It's why you often see BOGOF offers on PS3s, digital cameras etc. It's what you do when your product is a runaway success and you can't keep up with demand.

Re:Less editorialization please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359044)

Just because one product is well suited to marketing in one way doesn't mean others are.

People park their cars at various parking lots around here, but I've never seen it done with furniture or lawnmowers.

Doesn't mean they don't sell their cars.

Re:Less editorialization please (2, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359066)

You don't offer BOGO if you can sell both for full price. You mention that Android is selling well. It would seem that BOGO is working for it and is thus a valid tactic.

Hmm (1)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358472)

You come to the party late and everyone has filled up on meat, casseroles, and desserts. If you want them to fill that fraction of space they might have left you better bring them something they can't resist.

Re:Hmm (1)

mea_culpa (145339) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358680)

MS really dropped the ball. But it isn't the first time either. They were very late to the browser game, yet steamrolled ahead and crushed their competition, at least for a while. Same thing with the Xbox, a little late but $billions$ to steamroll again has made them relevant.
WP7 is not a bad OS, had it made it to market 2 years ago they would be lightyears ahead. I hear the steamrollers coming so don't count them out just yet. MS has a surprising way of defeating the odds with piles of cash and steamrolling.

Re:Hmm (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359160)

Web browsers were free and bundled with the OS. Wake me up when you get a WinMo phone with every computer or copy of Windows you buy.

Should have chosen a different carrier (1)

Sylak (1611137) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358476)

If they wanted to make any sort of splash, they should have released the OS several months ago AND chosen a different carrier.

Re:Should have chosen a different carrier (3, Insightful)

xigxag (167441) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358666)

I'd say the opposite. They should've released the OS later, when they figured out some kind of compelling difference that Windows Phone 7 could offer over the competition. If they can't differentiate over must-have OS features (and a different skin doesn't count) , they should've worked on something like ultra-long battery life, SDXC expandability, unlimited streaming save-to-the-handset music free with a charter contract, or even free copies of Windows Home & Student. Some "top this" feature they could flog over the competition.

At this point, if someone can't figure a way to be at least 9 months ahead of Apple, they shouldn't even bother to play.

And yes, fire Ballmer. Let's not kid ourselves, Microsoft is still making money, but basically by sheer brute force, not through any brilliant strategizing. XBOX360 should've cleaned PS3's clock, but couldn't close the deal because of quality control issues. Vista should've run rings around OSX, but fumbled because of quality control issues. Kin1, Kin 2? MS knew those were direct-to-video flicks even before wrapping up production. Windows Phone 7, despite the hype, will be a failure unless Microsoft is willing to do an XBOX redux and take years of real losses for market share and bribe or buy a crapload of hot-shot appmakers the way they did with Bungie.

Re:Should have chosen a different carrier (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359022)

they could at least use what synergies they have: i'm still amazed my MS winmob 6.5 HD2 won't synch with MS Live Mail, and there's no more free outlook express for win7. not only that, it generates an error message "can't synch mail" each time I plug my phone into my desktop !

i haven't really looked into winphone 7, because that kind of behavior towards customers turns me off big time. i don't know if it's incompetence (no one thought about checking that the latest desktop windows and the latest -at the time- phone windows could synch mail ? or at least, fail silently ?) or greed (buy Outlook for that !) but, really, if you're going to leave me with such an issue, I'm not interested in being your customer.

same with releasing Kin for only 2 weeks... what about the customers who bought it, thinking it would actually be a forward-looking, developped for, invested into platform ?

Re:Should have chosen a different carrier (1)

tazan (652775) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359048)

Agreed, I bought a new phone last week. I ended up buying a 6.5 phone instead of a 7. Looking at the feature list even WM 6.5 is better more compelling than 7.

Bill (1)

noz (253073) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358488)

Call me. Steve not knowing what he's doing could only last so long.

If you want a long-term technology-business-plan, you're new-tech is out-of-touch-tech.

Re:Bill (1)

owlstead (636356) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358652)

Don't you think Bill would prefer somebody who can write down coherent sentences? Maybe even sentences without basic grammar mistakes?

Microsoft should struggle somewhere else... (1)

betso.net (950024) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358510)

Microsoft? Was that not the company trying so hard to build software? They try to sell phones now? This is probably not a bad idea... I always thought they should do something different.

Re:Microsoft should struggle somewhere else... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358618)

In the case of WP7, they are making software for phones, not selling phones. :)

Re:Microsoft should struggle somewhere else... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358656)

Apple sells phone now too. Oh, and I hear Van Halen has a new singer...

Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (4, Interesting)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358512)

A new phone buyer has a ton of options, between the iPhone, Android, Blackberry and hell, even webOS. For Windows Phone 7 to succeed, Microsoft needs to make a strong and compelling case that says "This is why you should buy a Windows Phone instead", but so far I haven't really seen it. The marketing message seems a bit muddled, focusing on the notion that people use their devices too much and that Windows Phone is all about using it as little as possible - an interesting idea perhaps, but not the strongest and most dynamic message. The real question is if there are a lot of people really dying for that - in theory you might think there are, but in practice people seem to be pretty happy with the way things are working.

I don't think the Windows Phone approach is bad actually - there is something to be said for a device that really streamlines the experience - but the question is how much the market wants it. I'd have to see evidence that iPhone/Android/Blackberry/webOS users are really dissatisfied with the current way of doing things (in the way that pre-smartphone users were with their regular phones).

Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case..prepaid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358722)

Maybe they can bring their smartphones to the pre-paid (no contract) market? That's one market that's lacking in the smartphone (variety) department.

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358748)

Two futures:
  1. They'll eventually give them away with Windows when you buy your next laptop. Activate Office.Whatever_the_next_version_is, and get 1 year's service with phone carrier X and some mobile office apps. Use the phone+blutooth as a remote for your laptop when connected to your HDTV, etc. The XBox variant will come with a "buy new games each month and get 1 month's free phone service" and mobile games as a bonus.
  2. WP7 becomes the Kin's next-of-next-of-kin.

Since Microsoft isn't market-savvy enough to make deals to do #1, their phones will end up as big piles of #2 doing the swirly around the porcelain god.

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (1)

Tapewolf (1639955) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359096)

I strongly suspect that that kind of bundling would have Microsoft nailed to the wall by the antitrust folks.

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (0, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358780)

It makes it easy to track down and rape people from facebook. No, that was the kin, nevermind.

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359082)

I think people like being "connected" and what is more "connected" than being in a conversation with others? Those Windows Phone ads are worthless because they are saying use our phone and you'll be connected less. wrong! I've also heard that they are bringing back the Kin and its message is being always connected. Covering the bases maybe.

It's funny that for THAT company to have a problem selling "it's easier" but even then, would that even be enough to get customers. I doubt it.

LoB

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359130)

Er. Comes with IE7! A stable version of the world's most popular web browser!

Re:Microsoft Needs to Make a Compelling Case... (1)

Motard (1553251) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359134)

I think what they're trying to do doesn't involve the mass retail market. Oh sure, they'd like it to be a hit there, but that's not where their message is the strongest. I think that where they'll try to get their initial momentum is through corporate CIOs. In addition to running Office, WP7 is a platform that can be exploited by the corporate .NET drones Microsoft has been cultivating for all these years. Crates of WP7 phones could be arriving direct without ever going through the retail market.

Slow sales.. (0)

Sir Lurkalot (772154) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358544)

Could AT&T being the sole service provider have anything to do with the sluggish Sales?

Re:Slow sales.. (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358592)

Yeah, that's probably a part of it. AT&T is already home to the iPhone as well as several Android handsets, choosing a different carrier like say Verizon or Sprint would've made it a lot easier on them.

Re:Slow sales.. (1)

Kyn (539206) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358594)

I'd have a Windows Phone 7 if they were on my carrier. Really stupid idea to launch with only AT&T where you have to compete with the iPhone and Android. At least if they started or launched concurrently on Verizon or Sprint, they wouldn't be competing as much with the iPhone.

Re:Slow sales.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358654)

Agreed. If Verizon had them, I'd buy one. But they don't, and I'm not switching carriers just to get a dang phone.

Re:Slow sales.. (0)

fast turtle (1118037) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358958)

Sprint is bringing out several models of WP7 next year and I'm looking at one of them due to proposed features. Sure with the WP7 having been released by a single carrier in the States, things aren't looking too good for them right now but it's going to change in the spring.

Re:Slow sales.. (1)

blacklint (985235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359150)

They aren't on Verizon or Sprint quite yet because Microsoft didn't have time to get the OS ready for CDMA devices. Considering how poorly the first CDMA Android devices performed (example: phones using Android 1.6 couldn't use A-GPS for a long time if I remember correctly), getting the bugs out first seems like it was a solid strategy.

Re:Slow sales.. (3, Informative)

user (88235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358636)

Um, what? t-mobile has them right now (http://htc.t-mobile.com/hd7/hd7-windows-mobile-lp?WT.ac=0918HOM04) and Sprint (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2370604,00.asp) and Verizon in early 2011 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372743,00.asp)

Re:Slow sales.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358838)

I hope you get rid of that flair...

Re:Slow sales.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358642)

Could AT&T being the sole service provider have anything to do with the sluggish Sales?

Exactly! Except that they are not the only service provider. Try T-mobile.

To recap... (4, Insightful)

giuseppemag (1100721) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358546)

...no official figures, no official declarations, no after-holiday-season data, no actual news.

I understand this is slashdot, but come on. Criticism sticks better if it is documented, otherwise it's just another form of shilling.

Re:To recap... (3, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358606)

The problem is that MS is not likely to let on if the Windows 7 phones are as big a flop as the Kin was. I've heard several figures for that debacle, none of which is over 10k units sold. Other than that, I'm not sure where you'd go to get real numbers from, perhaps AT&T.

Not suprised. (0, Flamebait)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358558)

I helped a friend get his new Win 7 laptop working the other day and I spent more time waiting for the blue circle to stop spinning than anything else. For a first time Win 7 "user" all I can say is it took longer to install nero than it did to install Slackware on my personal box. (That includes setting up flash restricted ATI drivers etc.) MS suck and no one can bullshit around that. I as a consumer expect their phone to be just as bad as their os.

Re:Not suprised. (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358646)

Yep, Microsoft is now in the same place GM was in the mid seventies to the late 90's.

Re:Not suprised. (0, Offtopic)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358724)

Used to be big into Chevy now it's Dodge or whoever can give me the best value for my dollar.

Re:Not suprised. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358918)

Who in their right mind would buy American cars? There are no domestically made cars that can even compare to their counterparts in Europe, Japan, or Korea.

Re:Not suprised. (1)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358980)

Dodge 3500 with HO 5.9 Cummins inline six. I'd buy it even if its made in Mexico. Cummins is awesome met 2008 emision standards in 2005 bitches.

Re:Not suprised. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358690)

you purposefully installed nero?
Well that means the rest of your "rant" is coming from a moron who has little to no credibility.

let me guess, it was a $200 laptop too........

Re:Not suprised. (1)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358828)

Nero comes with the laptop Windows software has never been important enough to research the best cd burning software for windows as a Linux user the included software has always been plenty good (brassero or K3b) I fully expect included software to do the job they advertise.

Mission Acomplished (3, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358648)

Just like the commercials say - "The Windows 7 Phone. A phone to save us from our phones". They even show how people want to use the other phones, with the clear message that we will not want to use a Windows 7 phone nearly as much. They seem to have actually accomplished their goal, and created a phone that people will be far less obsessed with using than cooler toys like iPhones, Androids and Blackberries.

Re:Mission Acomplished (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359124)

If people just wanted phones to be just phones the LG Chocolate would still be flying off the shelves. The simple fact is people really like having apps and internet wherever they go. I have friends that are very computer illiterate and they LOVE their Droids and iPhones. Why, because they like playing games, listening to music, and updating facebook. People want a computer in their hands not just a phone. I don't think people are asking to be saved from their phone as the commercials suggest, but rather they want to be on their phone more and tweeting about it.

Problem is their CEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358682)

...is a businessman.

Back when Gates was in charge, Microsoft focused in on one thing: enterprise software. They were good at it. Hell, they were the best at it. They did nothing else except develop this enterprise software.

Then Ballmer comes along, and before you know it you have MS trying its hardest to break into just about every single consumer niche you can think of, just so MS can have a "me too!" offering in just about every consumer electronics market space. And we all see how well that is going for them.

Maybe when Ballmer is inevitably canned within the next FY or two, MS will get smart and put a CEO in his place that is much more focused on developing MS's core business model of enterprise software systems, and will stop wasting money on retarded consumer electronics ventures that in the end turn into nothing but money black holes.

Phone 7 doesn't feel quite ready yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358702)

I'm a software developer at an ISV that has decided to create a mobile phone app to access our main software platform. We're a Microsoft partner and already have products using Silverlight, so therefore Phone 7 seemed like the obvious platform to start out with.

MS really hasn't made it a smooth ride to get started with the real hardware. It is a farce to developer-unlock enough phones. The web sites at MS for the account related stuff are a broken nightmare, and totally impossible to get hold of anyone who can fix those things. The Live account integration into all this feels unprofessional -- why does one need to create a xbox gamer tag to be able to develop a business application?

As for the phones themselves, there are some annoyances still. The beaten-to-death no copy-paste issue, the massively aggravating only one active application issue, the stupid no-removable-memorycard issue, the extremely anemic marketplace issue, ... And for those apps that are up on the marketplace, I wonder how they have gotten there since there are so many obviously buggy ones which I have a hard time believing they'd pass the MS' approval process.

And the Live account is annoying on the user end as well. Want to visit the marketplace? Better hope the country your Live account is set to has a marketplace up already... Want to change the country of your Live account? Can't do that. Ok then, creating a new Live account and pretending to be from a country that has a marketplace? Oops, can't change the Live account on the phone, you must completely reset your phone in order to start using another Live account on it.

And I'm still waiting for a Spotify client to come for this thing... It is somewhat irritating having to go back to manually moving over MP3s to one's music playback device.

Re:Phone 7 doesn't feel quite ready yet (4, Interesting)

Shemmie (909181) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359140)

I can kinda relate to this. MS is my bread and butter, but when faced recently with Android for the first time, and leaving 5 years of Windows Mobile, or WP7, I had to opt for Android. And I'm really glad I did.

It is weird, but Android feels like the Windows of the smartphone World. I can install anything I like on it, which will lead to a support nightmare in years to come, when non-tech have installed the Chinese 'super speed up my phone' app. But in allowing people to install what they like, I'm there. I don't want my mobile phone locked down tighter than a ducks ass into iTunes or Windows Marketplace, tyvm.

And those WP7 ads are fantastic - the phone you don't need to use much. What the hell? I admit to having to pull myself away from my new phone, as between using it as an ebook reader, mp3 device, gaming platform, web browser, ticket system for my public transport, etc - this thing is immense. I 'want' to use my phone a lot - as a commuter, it's a fantastic device. But then, when has MS marketing ever 'helped' MS - I swear they're paid per cock-up they achieve.

The lock-in on WP7, and massive restrictions at launch feel very unprofessional. MS knew they were playing catch-up, and had to launch something superb, that was ahead of the game. The gaming does look good on WP7, but it seems they completely abandoned their enterprise market to do it - what used to be fleets on Win Mobile devices will soon be no more - and still MS keeps saying "Yes, it's coming. You'll be able to do 'x' on it, soon". It should have been ready to cater to business on day 1, not as an after thought.

It seems MS really believed they could launch a consumer product that would float on its own merits - even with my MS tinted glasses on, I admit that's something they've never really been good at. They lack 'coolness' to do what apple can do in the consumer market - something I hate as a concept, but concede is a big issue in getting consumer electronics to sell. I originally thought I'd look at Windows Phone again next time my contract's up, but to be honest, I can't see it still being a player in 2 years time.

Microsoft releases actual cow turd as phone (3, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358706)

Desperate to stay competitive against iPhone and Android mobile devices, Microsoft has released a two-pound lump of actual cow faeces that they claim constitutes a phone.

Windows Mobile 7, in development for several years, strips the mobile telephone down to its fundamental essence: futility, annoyance, malfunction, inconvenience and a socially unacceptable odour. Confounding analyst expectations, the turd is in fact shined.

US mobile carriers hailed the turd as the perfect physical complement to their world-famous customer service. "This powerful product will promote our growth!" said John Harrobin of Verizon Wireless. "We're marketing them as edible."

"We think we can really work the brand equity," said Steve Ballmer, modelling the optional shoulder-length rubber gloves. "Everyone works with our stuff all day every day. They know who Microsoft is and what we do."

"How about making our customers actually swallow our bullshit physically?" said John Harrobin. "Windows Mobile 7 was my idea."

Picture: Steve Ballmer overjoyed at Windows phone sales figures [newstechnica.com] .

Learn from Honda (2, Insightful)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358734)

Or other Japanese manufacturers*.

Honda spent years (decades?) building things with small engines. Starting with 90cc motorcycles, they slowly learned the technology and marketplace. As they did so, they slowly worked their way up the product chain until they reached the position they are in now.

Perhaps Ballmer must go. But does Microsoft have the patience to tough it out for a decade or so, repairing the damage he has done and rebuilding the product teams (while enduring stinking sales figures) before they start to see results?

*There are numerous examples other than Honda. But it was the only car analogy I could think of.

Re:Learn from Honda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359162)

I don't blame the developers at microsoft, I blame the leadership. It's upper management and not just balmer. No one will stand up to him!

Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (4, Interesting)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358740)

So far I really haven't seen any indications that the OS is doing badly. My AT&T store said that the demand for them was high, especially for the Focus, and I've seen similar responses from the T-Mo reps. I don't think you can write off the system until it's been released on the CDMA networks and has had a few updates.

My personal experience with it has been somewhat mixed. The UI is superb, lightyears beyond Android, but it has its share of weaknesses - a big one I can think of is lack of socket support in the public API. I think this will probably be added in the January update, but in the mean time, it means there are a lot of application types that just aren't available, like an IRC client. The dev tools are generally excellent, just limited in terms of exposed functionality.

Re:Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (3, Insightful)

hxnwix (652290) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358804)

So far I really haven't seen any indications that the OS is doing badly.

There are clearly more Windows 7 phones in stock than there are people buying Windows 7 phones. If this were a hot seller, there wouldn't be inventory for a buy one get one free deal.

Also, anything following your disclaimer is sure to actually be happening: "So far I really haven't seen any indications that........"

Re:Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (4, Interesting)

aristotle-dude (626586) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358870)

My personal experience with it has been somewhat mixed. The UI is superb, lightyears beyond Android, but it has its share of weaknesses - a big one I can think of is lack of socket support in the public API.

So you think that square boxes and text that is cut off is light years ahead of other UIs? Have you browsed the web much? MSFT basically took ideas from flash websites and created an inconsistent UI out of it. Should I really expect any more though from someone with the username "linux geek"? The UI is crap.

The lack of socket support is a minor issue compared to the lack of copy and paste and a lack of multitasking this late in the game. They rushed it out. There are gaping holes in the API which cause it to be much harder to develop on compared with even Android let alone iOS. iOS provides a rich set of frameworks whereas MSFT platforms usually offer only basic functionality and you have to either "roll your own" or buy an off the shelf third party library.

Re:Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (4, Interesting)

bds1986 (1268378) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358878)

My AT&T store said that the demand for them was high, especially for the Focus, and I've seen similar responses from the T-Mo reps.

I'd expect nothing less from a salesperson. "This item is wildly unpopular, we have crates of them sitting out the back and we'll never get rid of them all, but please pay the full advertised price" isn't exactly a good marketing pitch. We really need to see figures from a third-party without a vested interest in moving units to determine WP7's success/failure.

Re:Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (1)

KarmaMB84 (743001) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359156)

It's a sneaky sales tactic they've been doing with Android phones for quite a while. They could do a sale for 50% (of the upfront price, not the inflated monthly payment cost) off or go the sneaky route and score a contract or contract extension for two phones by making you buy two of them to get the "deal".

Re:Stop the constant WP7-bashing. (1)

Alioth (221270) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358912)

Lack of a socket library in a communications device!? That, to my mind is unforgivable.

Even my Sinclair ZX Spectrum has a socket library. For a "modern security device" that connects to the Internet to not have a socket API leaves me, well, speechless.

A sign he's on his way out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34358784)

When they replace his furniture with Nerf chairs expect a big announcement.

Windows Phone 7 looks ugly (to me) (2, Interesting)

satuon (1822492) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358806)

I might be the exception, but when I saw a picture [mobilemarketingwatch.com] of a phone with this OS, my first reaction was to think it's plain ugly. I wouldn't buy one just for that. Does anyone else think it looks ugly, too?

Re:Windows Phone 7 looks ugly (to me) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359056)

At least they won't be accused of copying the iPhone look and feel...

Re:Windows Phone 7 looks ugly (to me) (1)

jeffgeno (737363) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359146)

You have to see it in motion. It's amazingly fluid and well designed in use. I personally love what they've done in getting rid of all the unnecessary graphic elements. There are no lines between the messages in your inbox, no always visible scroll bars, no locked title bars... really nothing at all between you and your data. Play with one in a store and you'll come away with a completely different impression.

Ballmer was the worst thing ever to happen to MS (1)

fkx (453233) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358894)

It is a sign of poor management when the biggest liability is left in place decade after decade.

They are going to buy RIM (1)

NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358902)

I have said this for two years, since they dumped the old Windows Mobile. Someone inside Microsoft was given one last shot at a technological solution. This was not given much hope, kind of like John McCain's campaign, but the culture dictated it. The financial managers are just waiting for the first two quarters of dismal results to report before launching their plan to regroup, focusing solely on the enterprise, and buying RIM while their mobile market share is low enough to get the acquisition past the SEC. This should be a surprise to no one.

Not too bad actually (4, Informative)

sunfly (1248694) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358914)

Ars summed it up nicely, their launch numbers are not as bad as some are making it sound, certainly not horrible Windows phone 7 launch numbers explained. [arstechnica.com]

They have a lot to add to this new OS to catch the competition, but they know that, they simply had to ship. Overall it is a very well laid out OS with some great ideas. In the big picture the smartphone market is still very young. Microsoft has a lot of talented people, and backed into a corner Balmer might just let them perform. It is way too early to start pointing fingers and snickering.

It's time to rebrand (5, Insightful)

Forrest Kyle (955623) | more than 3 years ago | (#34358928)

They shouldn't have attached the "Windows" brand to their phone. Windows is a desktop operating system. It has a popularized reputation (warranted or not) for being unwieldy, crashing, being expensive, and mostly dedicated to the accomplishment of boring or undesirable tasks like work, writing papers, using Office, etc. They should have created a new brand for the phone.

Having a "Windows Phone" from Microsoft is sort of like IBM coming out with a social networking site called "The IBM Human Interaction System" and then marketing it to young people as hip and cool. There is an emotional and/or psychological disconnect between the nature of the product and the mental conception people have of the brand.

Even though it's stupid, when I see the Android ads I think "oh cool, an ANDROID! I wonder what it can do? It looks futuristic. I kind of want one." (note: I don't have a smart phone because I think they are stupid.) However, when I hear the word "Windows Phone", it makes me feel like getting one would be like keeping a chunk of my job in pocket. No thanks.
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