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DHS Seizes 75+ Domain Names

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the going-for-the-gusto dept.

Government 529

Many readers have sent in an update to yesterday's story about the Department of Homeland Security's seizure of torrent-finder.com, a domain they believe to be involved in online piracy. As it turns out, this was just one of dozens of websites that were targeted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. "In announcing that operation, John T. Morton, the assistant secretary of ICE, and representatives of the Motion Picture Association of America called it a long-term effort against online piracy, and said that suspected criminals would be pursued anywhere in the world. 'American business is under assault from counterfeiters and pirates every day, seven days a week,' Mr. Morton said. 'Criminals are stealing American ideas and products and distributing them over the Internet.'" The TorrentFreak article we discussed yesterday has been updated with a list of the blocked sites.

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One of Our Cancers (5, Insightful)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359296)

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

“the few practice lawful plunder upon the many, a common practice where the right to participate in the making of law is limited to a few persons.”

Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk. We are seeing are the final nails in the Constitution's coffin. Their is no Constitutional justification for the seizing of these sites. It violates the core of the agreements made between the people and the Government. I really wish we could return to being a republic, where each state minds its own business but keep the Federal Government operating within the bounds of the Constitution. The people in Texas can have anarchy or whatever and the people in Massachussetes can have their pristine Government institutions. Those unhappy with their state are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to move.

I bet dollars to doughnuts that when net neutrality passes, buried deep in the legislation's text will be stronger measures than what we're seeing today.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

Music2Eat (1878664) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359322)

Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk.

They wouldn't, considering this is happening in airports all over the country every day.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359474)

I think that was the whole point of that phrasing...whoosh

Re:One of Our Cancers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359492)

...whoosh

I'm glad you know what sound a plane makes! Good for you!

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359540)

Hrm, I always thought planes went: "Nnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrowwwwwwwwwwwwmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

Have I really been doing it wrong for 20 plus years?! My world is shattered! :*(

Re:One of Our Cancers (5, Insightful)

dwlovell (815091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359338)

The websites in these cases amount to a storefront to distribute fake goods or copyrighted materials. When this happens with physical storefronts, they get shut down. I don't really see how this is any different.

This isn't about free speech, no liberties were lost, this is about people breaking the law and reasonable steps are being taken to stop them. You shouldn't fear the government as a result of this. Take off your tinfoil hat.

Re:One of Our Cancers (3, Insightful)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359418)

What happened to innocent until proven quilty?

Re:One of Our Cancers (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359438)

Re:One of Our Cancers (5, Interesting)

dwlovell (815091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359470)

You don't get convicted/punished until proven guilty, that doesn't mean they don't shut down the operation when it's obvious they are actively selling fake goods right now. It is the courts job to decide what criminal charges may exist. Perhaps the shop owner didn't know they were fake? Just because the owner may not be the person criminally liable, that doesn't mean you allow the operation to continue.

It was obvious these sites were selling fake goods and distributing copyrighted works. They shut them down and the owner's get to plead their case about how they didn't know or whatever their case is. The site still gets shut down now if they are breaking laws now.

Re:One of Our Cancers (4, Informative)

Sepodati (746220) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359482)

Innocent until proven guilty, or even better, the presumption of innocence, only applies in the court. YOU have the presumption of innocence and your accuser must overcome that.

These DNS entries were seized with a court order where enough evidence was shown to take action. No actual property was seized. The servers, files, original sites, goods, etc. are still in the hands of the owners. They'll have due process and the presumption of innocence if and when they are brought into court. Since I'm sure most of these owners are outside of the US, court will never happen, though.

Re:One of Our Cancers (5, Insightful)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359516)

As with most crimes in progress, the law allows the police to take action to stop the crime and seize the evidence. The disposition of the evidence and means of committing the crime will be dealt with as part of whatever trial is coming.

In this case, it looks like a ICE took down a bunch of sellers of counterfeit goods and may have overreached on the torrent site. That said, we'll all soon learn what the relationship of torrent-finder.com is to the rest of the seized domains.

Re:One of Our Cancers (2, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359616)

A court order is what happened.

There is a court order for shutting down this sites and the article refers to it.

So can we cut the "freedom", "internet only", etc malarkey. It is all above board and pretty much following proper due process and established procedures. If you sell counterfeit DVDs from a stall at the market you will get shut down. Do not see why you should not be shut down if you sell counterfeit media off a website.

Now the definition of counterfeit, grey, illegal copying, etc are all an entirely different matter. However, as long as the current definitions stand there is nothing particularly outrageous and illegal here. It is in fact definitely more legal than most DMCA shutdowns.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359480)

Most of the domains appear to be online storefronts selling counterfeit goods (likely out of China), thats why ICE was involved. Does anyone have a full copy of the court documents involved with these take downs? Might answer a few questions.

Re:One of Our Cancers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359586)

Does anyone have a full copy of the court documents involved with these take downs? Might answer a few questions.

Sorry, but DMCA & ACTA prevent me from posting them. I'm hoping they make it to the surface via Wikileaks.

Re:One of Our Cancers (4, Insightful)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359512)

By that argument, Google [google.com] should be #1 on their list of domains to seize. However, the first amendment has been violated as it uses absolute terms: "Congress shall make no law...". The sites were linking to other sites that carried the questionable material. This is the same as when a journalist is given illegally obtained information and then prints it. The journalist is not breaking the law and did not conspire to break the law and thus cannot be held liable for the crime.

Re:One of Our Cancers (4, Insightful)

boxo1 (154647) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359564)

Who determines that the websites in question are distributing copyrighted materials?

I don't call it due process when your property is seized by way of court order resulting from a hearing in which you weren't allowed to give your side of the story.

The owner of Torrent Finder found out about the action after the site was seized. (even though the site hosts no torrents and returns search results through embedded iframes) So the site is gone until he can convince the government to give it back.

Yeah, that's my America. Give the government the power to punish without so much as a public hearing. After all there's no chance THAT power will be abused.

Re:One of Our Cancers (5, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359362)

Ironically, of course, grabbing 75 domain names as part of a taxpayer funded handjob for the MPAA's bottom line is a tiny; but highly visible, slice of ICE's activities and, by far, not the most sinister.

This is an organization, after all, that has approximately 380,000 detainees enjoying its involuntary hospitality at any given time, in a nationwide network of facilities that range from "low profile" to "seriously shadowy". A fair percentage of them are undesirables of various stripes, so the public is wholly uninterested; but the process is opaque enough that their decisions aren't exactly subject to rigorous double checking. On occasion, a mysterious death or tragicomic "American citizen of the brown persuasion accidentally repatriated to some random country that he looked like he might be from, ICE tells his lawyer that they don't know where he is" story makes local headlines; but that is about it.

I realize that Slashdot is a good headline for melodramatic techie myopia; but domain-name seizures are boy scout stuff by the standards of ICE's bread-and-butter activities...

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359550)

I would argue this is more significant because it is in the open. If, as you say, they do more operations 'in shadows', then this direct assault on our liberties shows how far special interests have come and how much our liberty has deteriorated.

Re:One of Our Cancers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359372)

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."

“the few practice lawful plunder upon the many, a common practice where the right to participate in the making of law is limited to a few persons.”

Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk. We are seeing are the final nails in the Constitution's coffin. Their is no Constitutional justification for the seizing of these sites. It violates the core of the agreements made between the people and the Government. I really wish we could return to being a republic, where each state minds its own business but keep the Federal Government operating within the bounds of the Constitution. The people in Texas can have anarchy or whatever and the people in Massachussetes can have their pristine Government institutions. Those unhappy with their state are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to move.

I bet dollars to doughnuts that when net neutrality passes, buried deep in the legislation's text will be stronger measures than what we're seeing today.

American Business is stealing from everyone

Re:One of Our Cancers (1, Flamebait)

cornicefire (610241) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359382)

I certainly agree with the quote in theory, but I also feel that it has to be broken because of the nature of society. In my town, there were some pretty nasty red-light runners. I was almost hit several times. So when they came to take away part of my liberty by installing red light cameras, I wasn't so upset. It was a trade off that would make the world better. There will probably be some people who think that letting the Feds shut down websites is a bad tradeoff to make but I'm not one of them. The constitution gives each of us the freedom to speak, not the freedom to steal someone else's word. Most of the torrent-loving people are just kind of lazy couch potatoes who seem obsessed with filling up a 2tb disk with more than they can ever watch. Yet they're too cheap to spend 99 cents on a song. Starbucks charges more for a cup of coffee than Amazon does for many of the hottest albums. Come on.

I don't mind if you do that in your town. (1)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359660)

I just don't want you to do it in my town. You see?

Re:One of Our Cancers (5, Interesting)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359410)

mod parent something like +trillion insightfull.

I for one fear of this, and am now forced to take .fi domain for our business and simply make our .com a forwarder. We operate torrent seedboxes, nothing illegal in them itself, but many users seem to use it for illegal purposes, as DMCA requests for our US servers is "quite frequent", despite we are not US business, using US provider forces us to follow DMCA for the servers in question. Operating within completely in the legal domain, doing everything legally, does seem to provide us little to no safety against the whims of US goverment.

Yes, our market is likely to be used for illegal purposes. So are the tools of locksmith or the common kitchen knife possibility to be used for bad. And what the article shows is one of those.

The business plan of MAFIAA is outdated, and should be updated, but whenever new technology comes around something like this happens, but this is the first time actual tangible efforts has happened afaik.

I'm sick of this, the world is crazy. What matters is what the average person thinks and does, and businesses as well as goverments SHOULD fear the population. It's the only way for humanity to get the most out of our lives, and the most progress.

You cannot stop progress. I sense a darknet to rise if this becomes too common.

Anyone know the domain registrars in question? Is it everything ICANN controls or specific domain registrars? That would show which registrars to avoid.
I'm also curious why they did not shut down piratebay etc. as well? what is the pattern on the sites closed? ie. what is the pattern by which they do the seizing.

Re:One of Our Cancers (2, Interesting)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359520)

Zip and RAR and PAR are used to distribute illegal software, WAREZ, etc. as well as legitimate business items. It is ironic that they were not targeted, unless you think through the logic here.
Torrents are the major backbone of the definition "cloud", or a distributed network of systems with full or partial files contained on them which can be pieced back together to form the whole.
This too is ironic, since "cloud" is the big hype currently surrounding the IT world. (Of course this is laughable, "Cloud computing" has been around for a long time)
Because Torrents are difficult to remove due to the distribution method, they target the tracking sites instead.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

Sepodati (746220) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359576)

Yes, our market is likely to be used for illegal purposes. So are the tools of locksmith or the common kitchen knife possibility to be used for bad. And what the article shows is one of those.

I don't know your site, but I'd wager that it's primarily used to infringe on copyright, that you know that's exactly what it's used for, and you're still trying to rake in whatever profit you can from other people's goods.

If that wasn't the case, I don't know why you'd be running to get your operations out of the US. Which, btw, is fine with me. If you don't want to be subject to US laws, don't do business in the US. Seems fairly obvious to me. And don't complain when your site doesn't resolve in DNS within the US.

Your comparison to locksmith tools and knives is absurd. They are not sold as primary tools to break the law. Neither is bittorrent the protocol.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359510)

I really wish we could return to being a republic, where each state minds its own business but keep the Federal Government operating within the bounds of the Constitution.

Yes, except the side that espoused that view lost the U.S. Civil War. They said pretty much the same thing you did - except they wanted the other states to "mind their own business" so they could continue to own other human beings as slaves.

Re:One of Our Cancers (0, Troll)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359638)

Fewer than 20% of farms in Confederate states had slaves and had been in decline for decades. Several Union states allowed slavery. The cost of the War Between the States to the Union was enough to purchase every Confederate slave's freedom and 20 acres of land for each one of them. The Emancipation Proclimation only freed slaves in the areas controlled by the Confederacy and was a weak attempt by Lincoln to gain strategic advantage over the south by encouraging rebellion from slaves who were being watched over by the wives of the Confederate soldiers. To argue that the War Between the States was about slavery, or that the South had slavery in mind as a reason for supporting states rights, is patently false.

If you want to learn more about the 'Civil War', read The Real Lincoln [amazon.com] by Thomas DiLorenzo. He goes to great trouble to quote every source for every bit of information presented.

Re:One of Our Cancers (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359652)

Indeed, the price of ending slavery in the US was very high. On the same scale in terms of affronts to human dignity as the original offense.

But imagine this: A real republic, where the states get to mind their own business, and the federal government operates completely within the bounds of the constitution, taking no more authority than is necessary to accomplish the few duties that can only be discharged at the federal level (like treaties and defense), and nothing else. AND no human slavery.

Who says you can only have one or the other?

Re:One of Our Cancers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359554)

Democracy, freedom and other stuff like that are useless. People want two things, bread and circus. This government provides both, that's why they are free to take everything else.

Next thing you know (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359572)

We'll have the President ordering the military out to seize distilleries that aren't paying their taxes!

Re:One of Our Cancers (2, Insightful)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359600)

We don't live in a tyranny but we are moving in that direction. What about having nearly half of our income taken by force and most of it passed on to others whether we want it or not (tax/welfare), how about a tax system so complex that it is impossible not to break the law and where we collectively spend over $250 billion (yes with a b, look it up) on accountants just to comply with it. How about when we are forced to buy a specific health insurance policy even if we don't want one (Obamacare)? How about when we want to start a small business and have to buy a permission (license) to do so, one each from city, county and state, as well as jump through a hundred loops, each one with its own fee. How about when eminent domain is abused to take property from people on the grounds that handing it over to corporate use will bring more tax dollars? The only time kids on this site get worked up about it when their favorite stupid torrent sharing site gets shut down.

Re:One of Our Cancers (2, Insightful)

NiceGeek (126629) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359610)

So where in all those quotes does it say that sites selling counterfeit goods are allowable?

Corprations are stealing american ideas and prods (3, Insightful)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359302)

and GIVING them to china

Re:Corprations are stealing american ideas and pro (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359340)

and Selling them to china

fixed that for ya

Re:Corprations are stealing american ideas and pro (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359478)

and Selling them to china

fixed that for ya

And China is selling the fake goods back to us. The circle of life?

Re:Corprations are stealing american ideas and pro (4, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359526)

Trickle down economics... the rich just move to another country.

Witness the creation of an alternative to DNS (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359310)

This is a historic moment.

Re:Witness the creation of an alternative to DNS (2, Informative)

Bobakitoo (1814374) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359444)

This is a historic moment, but not for the reason you said. In 50 years the DHS will be remembered as the Americain version of the Gestapo. Seizes property, person and thought.

Re:Witness the creation of an alternative to DNS (1)

MRe_nl (306212) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359570)

I always think of them as "Der Heutigen Stasi".
But one has to almost admire the way "file sharing" has been turned into "piracy" and "copying" into "theft" by the media.
If the East Germans had had spin control like that, Honecker would still be president.

Re:Witness the creation of an alternative to DNS (3, Insightful)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359594)

    Be careful, you're on the edge of invoking Godwin's law. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'd hate for a perfectly good statement to be nullified from simple misphrasing.

    Seizes property: check
    Person: check
    Thought: as expressed through action, speech, writing, or art... check.

    We're not so far from sliding into an Orwellian nightmare.

    or...

    Big Brother is watching you. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Re:Witness the creation of an alternative to DNS (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359658)

Be careful, you're on the edge of invoking Godwin's law. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'd hate for a perfectly good statement to be nullified from simple misphrasing.

Aside from that they were both ruthless regimes with a distinct lack of humanity and decency, the East German government under Honecker and the Nazis had nothing in common. Invoking East Germany does not invoke Godwin's law.

Welcome to Obama's America. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359312)

He has to take while he can because he knows he only has two years left.

Re:Welcome to Obama's America. (5, Insightful)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359330)

Idiot. It doesn't matter which party runs the White House. This is about money. Money always rules.

Guilty before proven innocent (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359320)

suspected criminals would be pursued anywhere in the world
 
Welcome to "guilty before proven innocent"

WTF? What's the threat to national security? (4, Insightful)

EmagGeek (574360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359326)

Seriously, kids downloading music poses what threat, exactly, to national security?

One more piece of evidence that our government is just a puppet of deep-pocketed corporations and special interest groups.

I'm starting to think N. Korea is spot on...

Re:WTF? What's the threat to national security? (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359446)

I've been thinking recently that North Korea is probably boosting its economy by buying stock short, then sinking ships, shelling South Korea, etc, to drive the prices down. One could actually make a very large profit that way. Or I suppose they could just be nuts, sometimes it's hard to tell.

Re:WTF? What's the threat to national security? (1)

Dutch Gun (899105) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359472)

I'm starting to think N. Korea is spot on...

That's sort of like amputating a leg to take care of a pesky ingrown toenail.

Re:WTF? What's the threat to national security? (1)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359604)

They might also be trying to break the internet just ahead of the next Wikileaks release.

DHT? (3, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359334)

I'm not from the Americas, but I thought the DHT only dealt with national security issues, terrorist threats, natural disasters, and other high priority issues that affected the country. I'm not quite seeing torrent-finder.com as that, a torrent site I haven't even visited despite being a pirate. Is this honestly the same organization behind providing supplies to Katrina victims, as protecting private businesses against business models in crisis?

Re:DHT? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359432)

Well the Obama admin, seems to have this heart-on for the term of "man made disasters", so I suppose being a pirate and copying something would qualify.

Now some stuff like knockoff electronics, and actual items I can see the government wanting to go after and shutting them down. In Canada, we do this all the time, because cheap knockoffs can be an actual danger, but this stuff? Nah, most if it is the government trying to flex it's muscle and avoid due process.

Re:DHT? (2, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359508)

Well the Obama admin, seems to have this heart-on for the term of "man made disasters", so I suppose being a pirate and copying something would qualify.

The term is hard-on. The heart is a completely different part of the body.

Re:DHT? (1)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359442)

MAFIAA revenues are national security. Haven't you been paying attention? ;)
MAFIAA atleast would like it to be so ;)

Re:DHT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359498)

It doesn't matter which party is in charge; the government is still determined by the people's will. By people, we mean corporations.

The entertainment industry is only one tiny facet of American business, but even the FBI considers priacy to be among its top priorities. If you dislike it then vote against it; if you cannot stand it then move to a different country and contribute to its success.

Re:DHT? (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359532)

Department of Homeland Terrorism? How apt.

Re:DHT? (2, Interesting)

maiki (857449) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359556)

Is it just me, or does the piracy thing sound like a cover? It seems the gov are trying to prevent access to the Wikileaks release. Or perhaps it's time I got me a tinfoil hat.

Re:DHT? (1)

sribe (304414) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359618)

I'm not from the Americas, but I thought the DHT only dealt with national security issues, terrorist threats, natural disasters, and other high priority issues that affected the country.

I'm from the U.S., and I pay attention to the news, and I thought so too.

I am however relieved to know that the government agency that was founded to prevent terrorism has such a huge excess of personnel and resources that they have time for this in addition to stopping terrorists ;-P

Re:DHT? (1)

Sepodati (746220) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359662)

An organization like DHS has numerous departments and sections within it that have a WIDE array of responsibility. The Customs section has responsibility to ensure counterfeit or otherwise illegal goods are not brought into the US. That's essentially what these sites are attempting to do, either through physical counterfeit goods or by facilitating copyright infringement by making illegal copies. The MANY other departments within DHS are focused on their own responsibilities and likely have no idea or even care what other sections are doing.

Contrary to what many other people post, the entire US government is dedicated to tearing these sites down while everything else goes ignored. I should also note that it's unlikely President Obama is sitting there adjusting the DNS entries himself, laughing maniacally as he organizes his Thought Police brigade, which many believe is a logical progression from blocking DNS resolution.

Yikes! Terrorists everywhere!!1! (2, Insightful)

serutan (259622) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359342)

Copyright Infringement.
It's like Communism, only newer.

Re:Yikes! Terrorists everywhere!!1! (0, Troll)

dwlovell (815091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359386)

It is interesting that most countries that dont have copyright laws also dont have basic human rights protected by law.

I think perhaps the majority of the modern world considers artistic control of your work is worth protecting. You could always move somewhere like China to avoid the stigma of copyright laws.

Where is the Constitution? Where is due process? (5, Insightful)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359350)

The 5th Amendment says that "no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". Due process means that one must be found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers.

And since when did the mission of DHS become copyright enforcement? And where did they get the unilateral authority to act as judge, jury, and executioner?

Last time I checked, "copyprivilege" infringement required a civil suit by the person who held the privilege to begin with? Were these domain holders sued? Were they found guilty (liable) by a court of law?

Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?

Re:Where is the Constitution? Where is due process (4, Funny)

nycguy (892403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359420)

Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?

Thankfully, our President was formerly a professor who lectured on Constitutional law. I'm sure he's going to sort this one out for us ASAP.

Re:Where is the Constitution? Where is due process (1)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359558)

Yeah, that's a relief.

And if you believe that, Hillary Clinton has some land in Arkansas to sell you.

Re:Where is the Constitution? Where is due process (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359504)

If you made it to the 2nd paragraph of the NYT article, you would know the sites were taken down with a warrant issued by a United States District Court. I would assume these sites were investigated and found to be distributing faked goods and infringing copyrights. Hardly No due process.

Although I admit, it is disconcerting the DHS is behind this.

Re:Where is the Constitution? Where is due process (0, Flamebait)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359552)

So there was a jury trial?

They did have a court order (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359522)

Not to defend what they are doing as I don't like it either... but from TFA it seems they did have a court order to seize these domains. The question is, how those court orders were arrived at.

The torrent site seemed the most troubling as you can't really see how an order can be issued against what they were doing. The majority of the sites seemed to be selling counterfeit material like clothes and handbags; still iffy but you could see where possibly customs could have a hand in shutting down transfer of illegal goods.

Re:Where is the Constitution? Where is due process (3, Informative)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359596)

I believe it's in section 506 that criminal infringement is outlined. There is no civil suit requirement, and as in any criminal investigation, the government can seize evidence and the means used to commit the crime. In this case, it looks like the only one of the sites seized that may be problematic is torrent-finder.com.

Government control (4, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359352)

Now do you people understand the opposition to net neutrality? The government would "regulate" torrent traffic and other things that high-paying lobbyists didn't like.

Re:Government control (1)

mrnobo1024 (464702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359424)

As opposed to a non-neutral net, where it'll just get throttled down to one packet per hour.

Re:Government control (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359528)

Only until customers complained and started leaving. That's why your fantasy of throttled traffic has not become reality (and even what Comcast did was not throttling and would not have been blocked by network neutrality regulations as they are proposed).

Re:Government control (3, Interesting)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359426)

The government wouldn't have anything to do with internet enforcement. It would only be tasked with preventing other companies from regulating traffic. Net neutrality, at least in the form proposed, wouldn't at all give the government the ability to do this sort of thing.

Dream On (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359548)

The government wouldn't have anything to do with internet enforcement. It would only be tasked with preventing other companies from regulating traffic.

And part of that regulation would be not providing access to a designated list of websites. Because they could.

Re:Dream On (1)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359590)

"And part of that regulation would be not providing access to a designated list of websites. Because they could."

It could also state that everybody gets a free taco on Mondays. Doesn't change that neither concept is part of net neutrality, and any legislation that includes such things would not be net neutrality (even if the government claimed it was.)

Re:Government control (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359466)

I don't even know if the pay required from lobbyists is that high anymore. Some of these agencies seem to be quite agreeable to fascism with a very small push.

Re:Government control (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359640)

And if the net wasn't neutral you think companies wouldn't want the government regulating torrent traffic?

Why is the DHS involved at all? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359364)

Isn't the Department of Homeland Security supposed to ... you know... worry about the security of our homeland? Why exactly do they care about torrent sites? How are torrent sites a thread to homeland security? Excuse me while I go get a nudie scan and enhanced patdown to combat piracy.

Re:Why is the DHS involved at all? (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359642)

+1 there. Your government needs to get itself kicked back into line. So far Canada is looking like a better and better place to stay. I've still got the option of getting my citizenship expanded to be dual with the US, but that's never going to happen.

insert subject here (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359370)

So, are there any alternative DNS servers that I can user that will still point to the non-seized addresses?

No surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359378)

The Operators of the site knew that distributing copyrighted content is illegal, and that getting targeted was only a matter of time. Granted they tried to get around it via linking to other sites, but that tactic isn't new. Heck, even seizures are common in the war on drugs, and in counterfeitting operations etc.

What is a bit odd is ICE being the ones shutting them down. That might set a bad precedent.

Re:No surprise (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359462)

The Operators of the site knew that distributing copyrighted content is illegal, and that getting targeted was only a matter of time. Granted they tried to get around it via linking to other sites, but that tactic isn't new. Heck, even seizures are common in the war on drugs, and in counterfeitting operations etc.

What is a bit odd is ICE being the ones shutting them down. That might set a bad precedent.

Technically, they didn't distribute copyrighted content (which is legal if the copyright owner allows, by the way). They told other people about where the content was available. In fact, you've done so yourself by merely talking about them (only two steps away instead of one). I bet you're in league with the filthy pirates! Sending ninjas now.

^^vvBA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359388)

Well, it's nice to know who's running the show these days.

"pursued anywhere in the world" (1)

mrnobo1024 (464702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359390)

Really? How about places where file sharing isn't illegal? There's still such a thing as national sovereignty, much as the US would like to think otherwise.

I wonder how the DHS would like it if, say, Iran decided to start killing people in America who violate Sharia law.

Re:"pursued anywhere in the world" (0, Troll)

windcask (1795642) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359608)

I wonder how the DHS would like it if, say, Iran decided to start killing people in America who violate Sharia law.

Start? You do realize the Iranian government funds Islamic fundamentalist groups (who will kill Americans at any opportunity) like Hamas, Hezbollah, and a little-known organization called al-Qaeda, right?

Sampling the mood (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359400)

Looks like they're sampling the mood. Trying to ice to see how much they get away with.

The next step (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359402)

The DHS is doing this because they can't send FBI to other countries. The next step is predator drones launching hellfire missiles into apartments of suspected downloaders. Everyone in the US cheered when those navy snipers picked off those Somali pirates that held that captain captive...

So much for the hoax theories (5, Insightful)

Cederic (9623) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359430)

At least we can put to bed the suggestion that yeseterday's story was a hoax.

Next can we please retrieve ICANN from US control and cut off the US DNS masters? I think it's pretty clear they can't be trusted to run the internet :(

Re:So much for the hoax theories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359488)

All seized domains are .com or .net domains. The registry for those top level domains is Verisign, a US company. Most other top level domains are operated by registries in other countries. What's going to be interesting is if the United States are going to use ICANN and the root DNS control to force other registries to seize domains as well.

Re:So much for the hoax theories (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359560)

Luckily the world is just overflowing with even better options...

What we need is an expert system that parses the legal codes(and news reports/statistics concerning de facto behavior, since de jure codes are often a poor predictor of that) and then tells you where you should, and really shouldn't, obtain things like domain names and hosting, depending on the nature of your content.

Gung-ho for for Falun Gong? Strong opinions about the mud races? Fancy a spot of borderline libel? Consider hosting in America, Land of the Free(tm)!

About to hoist the Jolly Roger? Avast matey, ye'd best seek a fairer port...

Depending on the details, this sort of jurisdiction shopping can get you toleration of virtually anything you might fancy(consider it the poor man's equivalent of the much more lucrative jurisdiction shopping in tax schemes, labor markets, and environmental regulations...); but I don't think that there is a single jurisdiction on Earth(and Mars has ghastly ping) where you could safely host everything you might want. America is a lousy place to violate the draconian local IP laws; but not a bad spot for unpopular opinions(being Fred Phelps is legal here, what more do you need to know?). The UK is probably the worst place you could choose for saying mean things about people and so forth.

Re:So much for the hoax theories (1)

Cederic (9623) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359630)

The UK is probably the worst place you could choose for saying mean things about people and so forth.

I know, which is why I pay a regular monthly fee to a non-profit that lobbies to protect online rights and freedoms, and regularly write to my MP in an attempt to educate him and the Government on the damage they're doing.

Orbital hosting will be along in the next decade, that'll be an interesting one..

we need to set some boundaries (2, Funny)

craftycoder (1851452) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359476)

The government just keeps overstepping it's boundaries. It seems to have moved into it's awkward teenage years where it thinks it can do whatever it wants. It's about time we take away it's checkbook. That's what most parents do when their teenager is acting like a punk.

nfljerseysupply what about that American Needle la (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359494)

nfljerseysupply? what about that American Needle law suit that said the NFL can not make Reebok the sole distributor of hats for all 32 NFL teams

Next target: the wikileaks domains (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359500)

Oh and by the way, torrent-finder.info is actually a great site to find torrents.

DHS? ICE? (1)

headhot (137860) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359530)

This is clearly not their job. These sites have nothing to do with national security, immigration or customs.

Copyright Infringement Funds Terrorism! (2, Funny)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359536)

Didn't you hear?

Every time someone downloads an illegal song, Osama Bin Laden is sent a nickel.

Let's test it (1)

hugg (22953) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359566)

I'd like to know what would happen to a site that is 50% torrent search and 50% political speech.

We Finally got CHANGE! (1)

Veovis (612685) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359578)

however, only thing that changed was the DNS to a few little known domain names....

Whatever you think of copyright+torrent assistance (2, Insightful)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359580)

Whatever you think of copyright, and of torrent-assistance sites, it seems that much of what was caught in this sting are sites that sell knockoffs - dealing with that and other clear trademark issues I don't have quite as much of a problem with.

Were the seizure warrants mentioned in TFA's image actually issued and reasonably sensical? Could have a "bureaucrats who don't understand technology" issue w/r/t the technicalities.
And let's face it, such sites seem to be aiding and abetting distribution even if they're not doing the actual distribution.

Aw man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34359602)

Now where am I going to get a .torrent for 'Tangled', what with usaburberryscarf.com offline?

What the... (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359612)

This is not the DHS's job. Get off the Internet you gun wielding freaks.

Billions (2, Interesting)

Nihn (1863500) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359648)

Wow......and to think, these jackasses run this country. How pathetic. I'm starting to see why the rest of the civilized world thinks little of this place. People who produce shit are wanting laws to protect said shit which ensures they get paid for said shit. What happened to the costumer is always right? If what you serve me is below my standards what makes you think Im gonna pay you for it. These places that are "bootlegging" are 3rd world countries. They have shit for capitol and can't afford "american" prices. Supply and demand becomes the absolute law when concerning capitalism. If I want something I now have many places to look. I don't have to go to a store anymore, I can order from Amazon, eBay, or any other online retailer. But that is not enough for more discerning people who want to test drive before they spend their hard earned cash. Industry people are no longer needed, the days of the street markets are slowly coming back, and individuals...not companies..are making a few dollars to off set the ever increasing prices of standard living. Maybe if the pay wages were increased to compensate people would be more than happy to throw their money away on useless rehashed shit. But thanks to the laws of the stock market the companies will continue to suck the life's blood out of everything that can be sold with no concern to the damage they are doing to the little guy.

DHS Seizes 75+ Domain Names (1)

schodackwm (662337) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359674)

The quote (blockquoted) in the OP dates from last June... when DHS kicked this effort into gear.

Usenet providers host the same materials & wor (0)

wagadog (545179) | more than 3 years ago | (#34359676)

so when is dhs going after the big usenet providers?

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