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SAP Ordered To Pay $1.3 Billion To Oracle

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the take-a-check? dept.

Oracle 151

bdcny7927 writes with news that a jury decided to award Oracle $1.3 billion in their lawsuit against SAP after deliberating for less than a day. "The verdict ... is the biggest ever for copyright infringement and the largest US jury award of 2010, according to Bloomberg data. The award is about equal to SAP’s forecasted net income for the fourth quarter, excluding some costs, according to the average estimate of analysts... SAP spokesman Bill Wohl said the German software maker will pursue all available options, including post-trial motions and will appeal if necessary."

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151 comments

Automated download? (0)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380206)

I don't understand how an automated download equals copyright infringement, which from my read of TFA was the central issue. Can someone explain this to me? Because otherwise, quite a few websites are going to be sued for a lot of money for providing links to other websites... something I thought we had moved past as "infringement".

Re:Automated download? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380548)

You are indeed "girlintraining" else you would have known that SAP itself accepted copyright infringement.

Re:Automated download? (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380640)

The article says SAP made "hundreds of thousands of illegal downloads and several thousand copies of Oracle's software to avoid paying licensing fees and steal customers."

Re:Automated download? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381592)

Basically SAP was illegally distributing Oracles software. They were also copying Oracles patches and reworking them so they would work with the pirated oracle software. Think of it as somebody selling bootleg windows and also supplying bootleg patches.

SAP admitted to having done it. It was estimated that if they had been selling legal licenses and service contracts it would have been anywhere between 560 million and 3 billion, so 1.3 billion is a middle ground figure.

This is one fight where Oracle actually isn't being evil and was legitimately getting ripped off.

Re:Automated download? (1)

DiegoBravo (324012) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382332)

At last, a nice summary. Now it would be interesting to know how could the SAP managers be so stupid to do or allow that.

Re:Automated download? (4, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382196)

Well since I can't remember seeing real troll behavior from you I'll assume you are really confused and explain: Support. Just like you can buy Windows 7 in everything from Starter to Ultimate with different features included, with Oracle you get different levels of support and downloads for different tiers. What SAP did was pretend to be Oracle customers and download ALL the features and extras for ALL the levels of support and then proceeded to undercut them on their own product. It would be like you going to Apple stores and setting up your "brand new Hackintosh RAZR1911 Edition" for sale. Needless to say that didn't go over well.

So I really don't see how SAP can bitch. They bought a company whose entire business plan was based on theft, admitted the company was stealing, and now they have to pay the price. You can't just let companies like this off on whatever the cost of the theft was, otherwise I could steal from you and if caught just give back the original while keeping the interest. the judgment has to be nasty to deter others who would do the same thing. But no matter what you think of Oracle they have the right to sell their software anyway they choose, and the company SAP bought stole patches and support that they had no right to and for a profit.

Dear Slashdot: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380210)

That was news LAST WEEK.

Are the Slashdot "editors" touring Amsterdam [youtube.com] ?

Yours In Baku,
Kilgore Trout, C.I.O.

Ha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380214)

Now that is funny.

Of course, Germany should just turn around and fine Oracle or Microsoft a couple of billion to balance things out.

Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380232)

I don't even know the details of this case.. for all I know SAP could totally be in the right.

But I still love seeing them in pain.. after all the pain they've caused everyone else.

Re:Awesome (4, Insightful)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380568)

for all I know SAP could totally be in the right.

But I still love seeing them in pain.. after all the pain they've caused everyone else.

A legal battle between SAP and Oracle sounds like a (forgive me, Godwin) war between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Soviet Union.

Whoever loses, they deserved it, and I hope no one wins.

Re:Awesome (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381210)

Er, the Nazis lost that one. Was that your point?

In Corporate America... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381802)

...oracles need lawyers.

Re:Awesome (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381934)

Well, no. In wars, the young and innocent die and there was no victory in the loss of so many people in Europe. But SAP have for years been leaders in selling crap at a premium and calling it gold, more even than Oracle. Which is an amazing trick. They are bastards who have crippled many firms with their software and consulting fees, and they deserve every stick and stone. No one will die but maybe people will invest less in them.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34382456)

hmmm, i would say its more the case of US against Germany right now,

adding Nazi to whatever party you choose (not that much difference really)

Serves them right!!! (5, Funny)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380240)

$1.3 billion eh? By RIAA accounting standards that sounds to me like they may have copied 7, or maybe even 8 songs! Burn!!!

Re:Serves them right!!! (0)

turgid (580780) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380340)

Noy just any old songs, Miley Vaniley songs!

Re:Serves them right!!! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380482)

Noy just any old songs, Miley Vaniley songs!

*deep sigh*

Okay, seriously, man. Look over that and ask yourself: Did that add anything of value to the joke? Anything at all?

More specifically, would this have been a better time to simply let the joke be as it is? Because now... I mean, now your username's on this and everything. Now people have a name to associate with it. And Slashdot doesn't allow you to take back your words. Would this have been a better time to just keep quiet, appreciate the joke, and move on somewhere else?

These are serious questions, really.

Re:Serves them right!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380808)

yes it did.
also, stop talking to yourself.
ok i will.

Re:Serves them right!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34382170)

I am the original AC. For the record, I am just bitter because Miley Vaniley is my favorite group, and I can't stand anything bad about them. I am being serious too, so please stop picking on them and move on.

Re:Serves them right!!! (2, Funny)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380492)

What the heck is that Miley Cyrus with dreds??

Re:Serves them right!!! (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381020)

Hey grandad, don't you listen to the hip hooray on Radio 1?

Re:Serves them right!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380474)

Too bad there's not a "Sad But True" moderation.... :(

Jingoism? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380270)

So... an American jury finds in favor of an American company in an American court, and orders a foreign company to pay a huge sum after almost no deliberation at all.

Am I the only one reminded of how all-white juries always used to find in favor of the white victims, in courts staffed with all whites, after almost no deliberation at all, when the defendants were black? If it had been SAP suing Oracle, would the outcome have been the same, and would it have come as quickly?

Re:Jingoism? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380320)

If SAP doesn't like it then they can cease to doing business in America and with American companies.

Re:Jingoism? (5, Funny)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380390)

If SAP doesn't like it then they can cease to doing business in America and with American companies.

Please Santa, I've been a good boy and its not like I have ever asked you for much before.

Re:Jingoism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380400)

And then the rest of the business world would have a long second and third thought about doing the same. As our economy comes crashing down around our hubris, at least you'll have the smug satisfaction of your opinion that "you can always go elsewhere" and the "free market" is the answer to everything.

Re:Jingoism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380552)

I'm not American and don't really care. Freedom is more important than prosperity.

Re:Jingoism? (2, Funny)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380564)

Dude, why you arguing with yourself like that? It's kinda creepy.

Re:Jingoism? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381164)

If black people don't like it then they can cease to live in America and with American white people.

Re:Jingoism? (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381370)

they can cease to doing business in America

Careful.. you're going to over-excite everyone..

Re:Jingoism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380592)

You're actually comparing this to racism? Seriously?

Re:Jingoism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381068)

Clearly in any conflict between an American and a non, the American is wrong. . You know, if you take the thin strip of land along each coast and ignore the rest, America is actually quite civilized.

SAP already acknowledged culpability (2, Informative)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380680)

SAP in fact tried buying Oracle off but I guess their offer wasn't high enough. The trial mainly existed to determine the size of the fine.

Re:Jingoism? (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380732)

You're fucking joking [zdnet.com] , right? [msn.com]

It's totally different though, I guess. SAP got a trial.

You know you didn't refute his point, right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381266)

What he said is practically "Is it, perhaps, that american courts just want to fine foreign companies" and what you answered was "EU likes to fine non-EU companies". You do realize that you in no way at all refuted his point, right? (Not that it matters. I could show you many examples about EU handing out massive fines to EU companies [those just don't show up in USA news as much]... But you could, of course, show many examples of USA courts fining USA based companies. So it's pretty silly thing to ponder in the first place.)

I just got to add that the trial isn't what makes this different (MS and Intel could challenge their fines in courts if they felt that they had a valid stance) but the fact that this is a massive copyright case between two companies instead of a massive fine by regulatory entity.

Re:Jingoism? (1)

si3n4 (540106) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381034)

Thank God no European nation ever had a court system rigged against a minority - then every decision they made today would be suspect too. Go ahead and complain if you have the facts that bear on the case but spare us the historical references...

Everyone vas on vacation. (1)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381234)

+1 if you caught the reference.

Re:Everyone vas on vacation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381646)

i didn't get it. please to enlighten me?

What was left for the jury to decide? (3, Informative)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381198)

So... an American jury finds in favor of an American company in an American court, and orders a foreign company to pay a huge sum after almost no deliberation at all.

SAP abandoned - in August - any pretense of contesting Oracle's claims of copyright infringement. SAP Proposes Not to Contest Oracle's Copyright Claims [businessweek.com]

That implies as well that SAP had accepted the jurisdiction of the U.S. federal court.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- On the losing end of a $1.3 billion jury verdict for stealing a rival's intellectual property, SAP AG is facing the difficult decision about whether to double down -- by appealing -- or folding.
Either route is going to cost the German company dearly, and will have implications for how other technology companies approach copyrights.
A jury in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on Tuesday found that SAP's behavior in plundering software and documents from archenemy Oracle Corp.'s secured websites was so egregious that it awarded Oracle nearly all of the damages it was seeking.
If SAP appeals, it will have to endure several more years of disastrous publicity, a jackpot for Oracle.
"I'm not sure what the grounds for an appeal are -- I'm not sure what the argument would be," said Patrick Walravens, an analyst with JMP Securities. "It's not like this was a trial that was done in a quick and dirty manner. It was three years and hundreds of millions in legal fees -- things were pretty well vetted."
The judge in the case still has to formally affirm the jury's verdict, and could reduce the award. An order could come sometime in the next week.
Many analysts suspect that SAP will stand down and try and figure out a way to pay one of the biggest software piracy penalties on record. Doing so would put the $10 million acquisition of the tiny, now-shuttered company called TomorrowNow that landed SAP in this mess that much farther in the rearview mirror.
SAP at a crossroads after losing $1.3B verdict [yahoo.com]

Re:Jingoism? (1)

gilbert644 (1515625) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381402)

SAP isn't a person it's a corporation, people need to stop blurring the lines between them. It also entered the American market completely voluntarily.

Re:Jingoism? (0)

makomk (752139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382338)

IIRC, this is an actual known problem with the US court system when a US company sues a non-US company or vice-versa. There are even studies on it. Few other countries have the balls to pull this off, and none have the international superpower status necessary to make it truly effective.

(Oh, and it's also been going on for a long time. Take a look at the history of patent-related lawsuits over world-changing inventions whose inventor was in dispute, for example.)

Re:Jingoism? (4, Insightful)

ffreeloader (1105115) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382344)

This is a raft of crap written by someone who wants things their own way 100% of the time. I seem to remember the EU fining American companies several billion dollars.

Should American's complain that all those EU fines were just EU jingoism?

To tell the truth I don't see any jingoism going on at all, in either case, as this doesn't fit the description of jingoism. Jingoism is feverish excitement for a nation, not a company, unless you're trying to say that SAP == Germany, and that Oracle == US. I can't see how that is even close to being logical thinking, nor have I ever met anyone dumb enough to think that way. In fact, I don't know of anyone who is familiar with how Oracle and SAP do business who really likes either one of them. People may invest in either company in hopes of getting a return on their investment, but actually like either company? That's a horse of another color.

Re:Jingoism? (1)

Zhiroc (909773) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382346)

I'm not weighing in on the fairness of the damage award, but SAP basically admitted guilt at the trial [reuters.com] , and the jury only deliberated about damages.

Why was the software available to download? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380308)

Couldn't they have put a *password* on it or something? Or was it just a big free-for-all?

Re:Why was the software available to download? (2, Informative)

Clandestine_Blaze (1019274) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381524)

You can download almost all of Oracle's software right from their website for personal or educational use. You are expected to have a license though if you use it to conduct any business transactions. I believe that they also have a 'lite' edition of their database in case you wanted to also try that out. From their website [oracle.com] :

Software Downloads

Developers:

All software downloads are free, and most come with a Developer License that allows you to use full versions of the products at no charge while developing and prototyping your applications, or for strictly self-educational purposes. You can buy products with full-use licenses at any time from the online Store or from your sales representative.

Customers:

If you already have a commercial license you should download your software from our E-Delivery site, which is specifically designed for customer fulfillment. For patches, see My Oracle Support.

Re:Why was the software available to download? (1)

KarmaMB84 (743001) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382288)

You can download the full (but probably unpatched) Enterprise Edition of Oracle 11g.

Re:Why was the software available to download? (2, Informative)

pavon (30274) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381636)

It was password protected. TomorrowNow had employees download PeopleSoft updates and patches under an Oracle support contract, and then illegally redistributed them to their customers.

And this redistribution causes 1.3bn damage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34382536)

And this redistribution causes 1.3bn damage?

Insane.

I was really interested in this case... (2, Informative)

Michael O-P (31524) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380380)

...LAST WEEK when it was actually news.

Re:I was really interested in this case... (1)

achbed (97139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380476)

Slashdot is getting so slow on news that it's going backwards. Current -6 days. Methinks ./ is now nuked from my daily check.

big boys (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380422)

The big boys are duking it out, nice to see some damage instead of the grandmother downloading a music mp3 and having to pay 50,000$. This is more of what the patent trolls were meant for, not for the end user not making money off the file sharing with another individual.

P2P pirates that ended up in court were not random (1)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380844)

Grandmas that download a few songs. They were heavy pirates, it's just that they were prosecuted for a subset of songs. The heaviest pirates are targeted with lawsuits, it doesn't make sense to take random Grandmas to court. But I realize that the tech sites like Slashdot didn't report on that little tidbit and I will probably be voted down for mentioning it.

Re:P2P pirates that ended up in court were not ran (1)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381236)

Grandmas that download a few songs. They were heavy pirates, it's just that they were prosecuted for a subset of songs. The heaviest pirates are targeted with lawsuits, it doesn't make sense to take random Grandmas to court. But I realize that the tech sites like Slashdot didn't report on that little tidbit and I will probably be voted down for mentioning it.

Plenty of grandmas were sued, and this has been widely publicized, but they chose to settle. The difference between the people who went to court and those who did not was a willingness to settle, not the sympathy of the RIAA.

For reference, this award to Oracle is about the same as a jury would award based on the Thomas case if SAP had shared 100 gigabytes of music, which isn't much more than what the average college student shared on the network at my school.

You mean this Grandma (1)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381550)

for sharing 572 tracks on the P2P network, including tracks by 50 Cent and Usher. After Crain denied engaging in file-sharing and rejected the RIAA's $4,500 prelitigation settlement offer, the RIAA filed suit. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2007/12/riaa-versus-grandma-part-ii-the-showdown-that-wasnt.ars [arstechnica.com]

Sharing 572 tracks with the world != downloading a couple songs. Her name was tied to the Kazaa account as well.

Re:P2P pirates that ended up in court were not ran (1)

publiclurker (952615) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381272)

your lack of citations shows that you don't even believe this bull. Better find a new job, the RIAA won't pay much for such a poor level of toadying.

Re:P2P pirates that ended up in court were not ran (1)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381820)

No I have just read through the cases and can see that they did not target p2p pirates at random. It makes sense to go after the heaviest p2p pirates first and that is what they did.

But I can provide links if you would like. Take the case of Tenenbaum who admitted to having 800 files in his shared Kazaa folder but was only prosecuted for 30. It's just a legal strategy to focus on a subset of files.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/tenenbaum-takes-the-stand-i-used-p2p-and-lied-about-it.ars [arstechnica.com]

I don't work for the RIAA, I'm just intellectually honest. Sorry if that bothers you.

One day (1)

Voulnet (1630793) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380528)

One day a lynch mob will go to Oracle's HQ and burn the place down.. deservedly so. I'm just amazed at how fast a company can become the no.1 villain in the Computer industry..

Re:One day (1)

Voulnet (1630793) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380596)

Although it seems Oracle may not have been completely evil in this specific case...

Re:One day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34381142)

Hey, what about Facebook and Apple? They want to be evil too!

Sick (1)

jimmerz28 (1928616) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380542)

Oracle please just go away already I'm sick of seeing you in the news all the time...

What can you buy for $1.3B? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34380580)

What can you buy for $1.3B, considered that SAP bought Sybase for $5.8B? [gigaom.com]

Didn't this happen last week? (1)

js3 (319268) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380608)

Huge fail

Show vs, facts (1)

mseeger (40923) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380664)

Oracle was putting on a good show while SAP tried to counter with facts. Since a bored, clueless jury is a thankful audience, the showman wins...

Re:Show vs, facts (1)

publiclurker (952615) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381296)

Since SAP admitted to the piracy, I wonder what "facts" you are referring to?

Re:Show vs, facts (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382372)

The facts that would indicate this is an absurdly large payment to demand, I would assume. (As in, orders of magnitude larger than the total income of the SAP subsidiary doing the pirating, amongst other things.)

Make a better summary! (5, Insightful)

meustrus (1588597) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380772)

It really bugs me that there seem to be these stories, mostly about copyright-related lawsuits, where the OP assumes that everyone on Slashdot knows what the lawsuit was about. Well, I don't know what Oracle sued SAP for, and if I did I forgot. Who can keep these acronyms and company names straight anyway? If it were just once I wouldn't be bothered to RTFA but I shouldn't have to RTFA just to understand the summary of a story that normally I wouldn't care that much about. These things seem to come up once every couple of days though.

Re:Make a better summary! (1)

meustrus (1588597) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380880)

And even after RTFA I still don't feel like I know what the lawsuit was about. Something about SAP automating downloads and stealing customers. The facts are buried in the article, as if we all know what the trial was about because all copyright infringement is the same. Business-to-business copyright infringement for the purpose of stealing profits is MUCH DIFFERENT on a structural and ethical level than individual infringement for the purpose of getting some bits for free.

Re:Make a better summary! (2, Interesting)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380904)

I used to have this problem with Slashdot, then I started to realize that I was just reading too many articles. If I forgot what it was about, I was probably getting worked-up and angry over something I shouldn't be. Since this realization, I've become much happier, concentrating on those subjects that I really do have an interest in, rather than those that Slashdot headlines make me think I am interested in but forget about last week.

Quote from SAP's lawyer: (1)

Slutticus (1237534) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380848)

Damages should be based on the amount of profits Oracle lost and SAP gained from the customers who left Oracle due to the infringement, Bob Mittelstaedt, SAP’s attorney, told the jury.

Ummm...no. Damages should also be based on some sort of "punishment" factor. I would think it is important to prevent companies from simply writing off illegal activities and paying off some trivial amount of money in the even they get caught.

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (2, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380942)

Ummm...no.

Ummm... yes.

Damages should also be based on some sort of "punishment" factor.

Damages by definition really should be based on how much DAMAGE was caused.

A punitive fine in addition to damages may be appropriate though.

I would think it is important to prevent companies from simply writing off illegal activities and paying off some trivial amount of money in the even they get caught.

Even if the "activities" only caused trivial damage?

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (1)

Marcika (1003625) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381262)

Posting to undo negative moderation... I actually agree with you.

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34382304)

There is no -1 Disagree mod....Oh, you were ABUSING your mod privileges. I see now.

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34382680)

Just for the record, *I* didn't post that.

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382706)

Doh. And *I* didn't mean to hit anonymously to post -that-. I was just trying to turn off the karma+ since its not really on topic.

And it looks like you have to go into options to set that now... :(

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (1)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381692)

Who determines what "trivial" is? Obviously the jurors in this trial decided the damage was non-trivial.

Re:Quote from SAP's lawyer: (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381986)

Juries and/or judges based on evidence of damage provided by the plaintiff.

Crazy figures (1)

yalla (102708) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380886)

I wonder how a small firm like TomorrowNow with 400 service-contracts - and a net profit of ~50 mio. USD in the time frame in question - can make a such a damage.
A, maybe it's because Oracle bought the companies who made the software TomorrowNow was offering services for...

head.bang->desk();

I guess this balances out (1)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34380916)

The ridiculous fines the EU imposed on Microsoft a decade too late.

Average (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381078)

Does that average out to $699 per Linux user?

How to piss away $1.3 billion (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381136)

One of my first managers was joking with us, and stated, "Only here, does some little guy like me have the opportunity to run a 10 million Deutsche Mark project aground!"

How do the SAP folks responsible feel about causing $1.3 billion in damages? Has anyone's head rolled for this?

I could only dream of being able to do this, "Oh, hi, boss . . . there's a little small matter that we need to talk about. I made a tiny boo boo, and it is going to cost the company $1.3 billion."

Yo.

A warning to every company in the world. (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381174)

Don't do business in or with the USA until they get there justice system sorted out and into the current century. It's just too dangerous and you will always loose to a patriotic non-professional jury that has no knowledge about law and no knowledge about the subject that provoked the lawsuit in the first place. Just look elsewhere for good customers. Asia comes to mind here. That will be where the money is being earned in 15 years from now anyway.

Re:A warning to every company in the world. (1)

Pro923 (1447307) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381422)

Oh please... The EU was going after and continues to attack Microsoft for every penny they can get out of them.

Re:A warning to every company in the world. (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381512)

And rightfully so. A monopoly is a bad thing. Not comparable with so called copyright infringement.

SAP already acknowledged that CI led to losses (1)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381712)

for Oracle. So you don't consider that a bad thing? Taking the work of others and profiting from it? This was a pretty egregious case, SAP has already admitted culpability and tried to settle with Oracle.

Re:SAP already acknowledged that CI led to losses (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381792)

No, the copyright laws in the USA are pretty idiotic. Besides, with the large-scale espionage the USA has on it's name I don't think anyone should bother with that country anymore. It's bankrupt on moral, intellectual and financial level. Despite of the many good people that are born and raised there. But I guess that is bashing also huh? I know, criticism is always a commie hating the whole of the USA. No point in discussing.

Re:A warning to every company in the world. (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382410)

The EU fine was but a tiny, tiny proportion of what Microsoft made by violating the law there. Which is why they continued to flout the law for as long as possible, even though complying immediately would've significantly reduced their fine.

A warning to everyone who uses the word lose (2, Informative)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381450)

Lose and loose are different words.

Oh and SAP already admitted guilt, the jury was tasked with setting the award. Sorry if that puts a damper on your little USA bash.

Re:A warning to everyone who uses the word lose (2, Insightful)

santax (1541065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381500)

It's not about the conviction. It's about the insane amount of damages for copyright infringement. Has nothing to do with USA-bashing. It's called criticism of a backwards justice system. Sorry if that's to much to handle for you.

One quarter of profit is not insane (1, Troll)

judeancodersfront (1760122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381680)

These megacorps have billions in cash, a fine of 50 million might as well be a rounding error. Punitive damages against these companies should be relative to their annual profits. These types of rulings need to set a precedent, not just account for damages.

Re:A warning to every company in the world. (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382070)

While I'm not judging the validity of your basic premise, though it does seem a tad extremist. SAP was actually in the wrong here and they've effectively admitted as much so you might be banging your drum at the wrong parade...

Re:A warning to every company in the world. (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382262)

Yeah I used some big words, have to give you that. It's just a lot of frustration whenever I see these ridiculous (at least to me) claims. Now it's a big company tomorrow it's another single mom who downloaded 10 songs. The part that is most frustrating for someone coming from a country with a (again in my opinion) better/more fair justice-system is that the USA is forcing their system to the whole world with acta. And in the end, we all suffer so 0.0001% of the richest people in the world can become even richer. I am sure there are enough flaws in the Dutch legal system also, but at least it makes some sense when they say: damage = damage and is not punishment.

Litigation pays better than Innovation (0, Troll)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 3 years ago | (#34381754)

Just ask Microsoft, Apple, The SCO Group, RIm, Paul Allan, . . .

Why bother creating new, or better, products, when you can patent troll?

FAIR? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382058)

Oracle Corp. won a $1.3 billion jury verdict against rival SAP AG, the world’s largest maker of business application software, for copyright infringement by a now-defunct software maintenance unit.

The jury yesterday awarded the damages after an 11-day trial in federal court in Oakland, California. Oracle sued SAP in 2007 claiming its U.S.-based unit made hundreds of thousands of illegal downloads and several thousand copies of Oracle’s software to avoid paying licensing fees and steal customers.

I hate SAP as much as anybody else, but I also hate Oracle (if Larry Ellison was standing here now, I'd kick him in the balls so hard, no backup would ever fix the resulting problem for him in this life time)

But saying that SAP paying 1.3 BILLION is fair?

‘Fair Number’

The panel looked at “the scope, the duration and the timing” of TomorrowNow’s conduct, the foreman said. The $1.3 billion, which was less than the $1.7 billion Oracle’s expert had recommended, took into account all the elements of damages to Oracle that had occurred, he said.

“We thought that was a fair number,” the foreman said.

“If you take something from someone and you use it, you have to pay,” Bangay, 57, an auto body technician, said.

- Oh, man, I hope for the sake of this guy, he never takes anything and just uses it without any payment upfront. No video, no song, no book, no other mechanic's tools.

Google / Java (1)

Petronius (515525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382078)

This is a taste of what's to come for the Google / Java lawsuit. Bye bye Android.

Re:Google / Java (1)

crontabminusell (995652) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382612)

How do you figure *that*? SAP selling unlicensed software to customers for a profit versus Google losing a patent grant because they're not using software in the way the developer intended are two very different scenarios.

Just what we need, give Oracle more money (1)

mythz (857024) | more than 3 years ago | (#34382636)

Nice going, way to feed the troll.

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