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Digging Into the WikiLeaks Cables

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the story-that-never-ends dept.

Security 810

A number of readers have sent in new WikiLeaks stories today, many of which focus on the content of the leaked diplomatic cables. The documents showed how the US government bullied and manipulated other countries to gain support for its Copenhagen climate treaty (though behavior from the US wasn't all negative), how copyright negotiations largely meet the expectations of critics like Michael Geist, and how Intel threatened to move jobs out of Russia if the Russian government didn't loosen encryption regulations. Perhaps the biggest new piece of information is a list of facilities the US considers 'vital to security.' Meanwhile, the drama surrounding WikiLeaks continues; Julian Assange's Swiss bank account has been frozen and the UK has received an arrest warrant for the man himself; the effort to mirror the site has gained support from Pirate Parties in Australia, in the UK and elsewhere; and PayPal was hit with a DDoS for their decision not to accept donations for WikiLeaks.

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from the story-that-never-ends dept. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462392)

You said it.

Is this Wikileaks day? (1, Interesting)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462402)

I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (4, Interesting)

Squiddie (1942230) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462458)

Here's hoping that doesn't happen. If it does, I look forward to that insurance file.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (4, Insightful)

pitchpipe (708843) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462540)

The first real infowar has started. Who knew that it'd be governments vs. the people?

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (4, Insightful)

sortadan (786274) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462656)

It'd be nice if Julian could WikiLeak his own sexual assault information. As far as I've seen he's said it's a frame job but admits having sex with two women. Why not just have this out in the open and not leave people worried that backing WikiLeaks is backing a rapist?

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (5, Insightful)

owlnation (858981) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462704)

The first real infowar has started. Who knew that it'd be governments vs. the people?

Everyone with any knowledge of history.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462722)

I'm pretty sure the infowar "governments vs the people" has been going on for ages. The only difference is, it used to be much more one-sided.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (5, Interesting)

garry_g (106621) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462818)

As seen with East Germany, in the end the Government can't win over a determined people. Just a question as to whether the people will wake up in time while there is still something to save.
How long until the US People remember the constitution and their founding fathers' courage and ideas! Get up and let your "representatives" know how you feel about the "Great Chinese Firewall" and censoring of websites in the US ...

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462552)

Don't get too excited about that. My team actually broke the encryption on that file. Turns out it's nothing but naked pictures of Julia Gillard [wikipedia.org]

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462684)

Kind of funny, he can commit any crime now and has that insurance thing as blackmail (that and everyone'll assume it's a intelligence operation).

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (3, Informative)

Danathar (267989) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462468)

He should flee to the Pakistani side of the Afghan border. Seems a pretty safe place for fugitives.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (0, Troll)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462710)

He would then be with people who had just as fringe of an ideology of course.

The ideology that all information no matter how sensitive should be public is just as fringe and destabilizing to the world as Al Queda's ideology is.

held to a higher standard ? (2, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462880)

If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (4, Interesting)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462492)

I kind of wish I was in a psychology course during all this...it would be interesting to examine the reactions of governments and officials to Assange. Some of the response seems like its been ripped straight from a movie or book, with thinly veiled attempts at painting the man as a terrorist. The strength of the rhetoric seems directly proportional to the level of embarrassment groked from different leaked cables.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (-1)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462520)

I kind of wish I was in a psychology course during all this...it would be interesting to examine the reactions of governments and officials to Assange. Some of the response seems like its been ripped straight from a movie or book, with thinly veiled attempts at painting the man as a terrorist. The strength of the rhetoric seems directly proportional to the level of embarrassment groked from different leaked cables.

It is very interesting.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462906)

I kind of wish I was in a psychology course during all this...it would be interesting to examine the reactions of governments and officials to Assange. Some of the response seems like its been ripped straight from a movie or book, with thinly veiled attempts at painting the man as a terrorist. The strength of the rhetoric seems directly proportional to the level of embarrassment groked from different leaked cables.

It is very interesting.

Indeed, really interesting.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (3, Insightful)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462678)

I think most of the rhetoric is just plain old posturing. If what I hear is correct, nearly 3 million people had access to this level of classified files. It only took a PFC to waltz in and copy the stuff. Do you really think anything of this is news to any major government? With three million people with clearance, every intelligence agency worth its salt has at least one mole in there who has been reading and reporting this all along. They are just going through the moves to save face at the moment. Great cinema, but not exactly original.

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462738)

So what stops foreign intelligence agencies from threatening to release the names and addresses of US intelligence sources? Or from blackmailing those sources into being double agents?

Re:Is this Wikileaks day? (4, Insightful)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462782)

The fact that the US has as much on them, if not more, as they have on the US. Balance of power, mutually assured disclosure, if you excuse the pun.

Ya think? (4, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462524)

I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"

I think it is more likely we will hear about his tragic fatal auto accident, or suicide by 41 self administered hammer-blows to the head.

Re:Ya think? (2, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462584)

That would make him a Martyr... The US government does not want that.

He will be arrested, paraded through our kangaroo courts, found guilty as a terrorist, made to look like the ultimate villain to the public and left to rot in a prison somewhere.

Re:Ya think? (0)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462756)

Perhaps, but would imprisoning Julian really send the right message to other would-be leakers? I think having him end up dead in a very suspicious way, and then having the investigation into his death make an obviously counter-factual conclusion would send a more forceful message to others. It would say to them, If you cross us, we will kill you in your sleep and we will get away with it.

Re:Ya think? (4, Interesting)

he-sk (103163) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462854)

I think it's more likely that his arrest will be widely publicized in the media whereas his acquittal will be swept under the rug.

The common men on the street will think he's a criminal/terrorist and the establishment will have won.

But it will be a pyrrhic victory because 100 other wikileaks-type sites will follow in their footsteps.

i guess real life is not like ST/SW (0)

alen (225700) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462434)

everyone always calls each other by their title and the way to convince people is to tell them it's the right thing to do

this is the second or third huge US government leak and so far there is no smoking gun about baby killers or a fascist conspiracy to kill democracy

Re:i guess real life is not like ST/SW (1)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462502)

no smoking gun about ... a fascist conspiracy to kill democracy

Though there is a lot of stuff in there about our interaction with places where non-democratic fascists are alive and well, and spilling the beans about those opposing them is not always particularly helpful.

Re:i guess real life is not like ST/SW (1)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462616)

True, they might get rounded up by the CIA, who is usually in the business of propping up totalitarian regimes all over the place.

Re:i guess real life is not like ST/SW (2)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462700)

[I] guess real life is not like [Star Wars, where] everyone always calls each other by their title and the way to convince people is to tell them it's the right thing to do.

I don't know about that; I think the Clone Wars TV series gets it pretty right: the galactic Senate keeps getting intimidated, attacked, interfered with by circumstance, and generally manipulated by the Sith. It seems pretty realistic to me.

Re:i guess real life is not like ST/SW (0)

Etcetera (14711) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462774)

Quite frankly, this is actually a really important point.

Now... can I get an apology from the "quarter of the population [that's] retarded" and accused neoconservatives, Bush/Cheney, PNAC, Republicans of being behind a 9/11 Government conspiracy? Kthxbye.

Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (5, Interesting)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462440)

...don't seem to understand that the takedown of Wikileaks is a triumph of world government. It's literally the new world order responding to a threat and removing it. And they're cheering it on...

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462554)

I agree it is odd. Of course conservatives in the US are patriots and the head of the NWO is the US government and....

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (5, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462576)

They really started to put the heat on wikileaks when Julian threatened to release information about banks. When he was attacking the puppets, there was mild outrage. Now that he is going after the puppet masters, he's a dead man.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (3, Funny)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462628)

Which is why it kind of baffles me that he's taking refuge in Switzerland, of all places.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (1)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462720)

Indeed. I can't wait for that disclosure. The shitstorm at the moment will be dwarfed by that. Hope he has the sources widely distributed by now, in case something... bad... should happen.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462588)

I agree.

Most, if not all, of the recent content has made conservatives (in this post, "conservatives" is meant as people who are skeptical of large government) look much better than their political adversaries.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (5, Insightful)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462612)

the takedown of Wikileaks is a triumph of world government

You're confusing "world government" with a situation in which multiple governments around the world happen to have similar interests in being able to communicate, diplomatically, without every cable being broadcast by an attention whore with a poltical agenda. That's neither a conservative or liberal thing. It's a practical reality thing. Even diplomats who might side with Assange's politics are pissed at his willingness to burn the house down in order to get rid of a rat.

Nations have to be able to communicate with each other off the public record on some matters. Assange even seems to agree on this, but he thinks that he should be the one to decide on which matters, when, and between which parties. Finding that to be the unctuous, unilateral posturing that it is is neither a conservative thing nor a world government thing. It's common freakin' sense.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (2, Insightful)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462770)

...a situation in which multiple governments around the world happen to have similar interests in being able to communicate...

Kind of like when the state governments in the U. S. happen to have similar interests in being able to communicate, right?

To think about it another way (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462868)

So you ever have candid conversations with coworkers, friends, your spouse and so on about other people? Conversations where you drop pretense, say what you really think, what you really mean. Do you find that these conversations are often beneficial? Now, would you still have that same kind of conversation if you know it would be given, verbatim, to the person(s) you were talking about?

There you go then.

As an example when we get a new student in at work, I've explained to them on various occasions when they were going to be dealing with someone who was an asshole, or someone who is incapable of following simple directions, and so on. I couldn't have those conversations if the person was listening in. I mean there isn't any way I could let a student know they are dealing with an asshole, no matter how diplomatic I was the asshole would get mad. It is important that I can have a candid conversation with the students about this, it makes them able to do their job more effectively. But I couldn't do it if I had to record my conversations and hand them over to the parties involved.

Also it appears that Assanage doesn't want to acknowledge this. He was asked a very good, pointed, question in regards to this (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/100066669/is-julian-assange-a-coward-or-a-hypocrite/). Rather than provide a defense, give reasons why he feels that the good of his actions outweigh the harm, he just blows it off angrily because he doesn't like the question. Seems like he isn't willing to consider the consequences, the downside of his actions (all actions have a downside, everything has a cost).

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (5, Insightful)

scourfish (573542) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462642)

Why is it that whenever there is some sort of multi-national drama, suddenly the discussion gets shifted to "conservatives are mindless drones of some tinfoil hat New World Order," or "Fox News is partly to blame" or the likes? I seriously wish that Godwin's law could be modified to include the phrases "liberal media bias", "Fox News", "New World Order," sheeple," and "shill"

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (0, Offtopic)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462806)

Man, you get butthurt real easily. Pro tip: Slashdot ain't for you.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (4, Funny)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462698)

And they're cheering it on...

A conservative could be getting raped by a grizzly bear, and they'd cheer it on as long as it meant that a hippie was going to get punched in the face.

Re:Conservatives against Wikileaks.. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462800)

Or maybe it's just the recognition by grown-ups that Assange's action threaten not just individual government officials and policies, but all governments' ability to conduct diplomacy. Dumping 250,000 State Department cables onto the Internet isn't a, attack on a policy, official, or even a single government; it's an attack on the entire diplomatic system itself.

If diplomats fear they can't speak to their counterparts in confidence about significant concerns, diplomacy degenerates or stops. You might not like the current world order, but you'd like the new one even less if the US and other countries gave up on diplomacy altogether because they couldn't talk to each other in privacy.

Vital to US national security? (0)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462454)

In February 2009 the State Department asked all US missions abroad to list all installations whose loss could critically affect US national security.

Did they list the Kaaba in Mecca? ;)

Said it once... (1)

AndyAndyAndyAndy (967043) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462470)

...and I'll say it again. Releasing the information was, at best, arguably illegal only on a case-by-case basis, as much of it was (supposedly) public information anyhow. The backlash against its release should have zero to do with the actual content released and 100% with the act of releasing of information in general. Reactions from the Swedish GA (siezing the opportunity), the Swiss banks (fearful of entanglement), PayPal (fearful of the Fed. Gov?), etc are far overblown and are missing the point, which should be an U.S. legal one anyway.

Re:Said it once... (5, Insightful)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462536)

Wikileaks didn't release anything, they published information that was released to them by someone else. It should be noted that there has never been a case of someone successfully being prosecuted in the US for publishing leaked documents. The leaker, the one who actually violated an oath and removed those documents and gave them to someone else, that person should be punished. I wouldn't even argue against a treason case being brought against him or her. But trying to punish what is essentially a journalist, publishing information received from a source, is a very, very slippery slope for the US to start down.

Re:Said it once... (1)

AndyAndyAndyAndy (967043) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462668)

Very good point. Manning likely has it coming to him for the leak, but I guess the problem is people fail to recognize WikiLeaks as a journalistic outlet. It didn't help that things have gotten so sensational. It also doesn't help that people have no idea what journalism is anymore.

Re:Said it once... (1)

anyGould (1295481) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462848)

Manning likely has it coming to him for the leak

Has Manning been found guilty on those charges yet? Last I heard he was still just accused.

Re:Said it once... (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462696)

there are rare cases where I'd be against punishing the soldiers or whoever who leaked info like specifically leaking small quantities of information revealing war crimes or extensive corruption.
Essentially where the person in question genuinely has good reason to not trust that the propper official way of doing things will work at all.

in the case of whoever emptied half the US governments databases into wikileaks though that was far beyond anything reasonable, he very much committed a crime and should be punished.

Wikileaks and the other news sources who are publishing these documents though are doing absolutely nothing wrong.
newspapers are supposed to reveal the embarasing information of the worlds rich and powerful and wikileaks seems to have brought some life back into the whole industry and reminded some of them what they're supposed to be doing.

Re:Said it once... (0)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462714)

Under that definition everyone is a journalist.

Re:Said it once... (2)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462802)

So what's your definition of journalist? And as examples, maybe list one or two who would fall under that category nowadays?

Re:Said it once... (5, Interesting)

ADRA (37398) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462892)

If you publish, you're a journalist. You may not be a -popular- journalist, but a journalist none the less. What are the professional requirements for being a journalist? Nothing.

Re:Said it once... (0)

ThinkWeak (958195) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462840)

Call me Mr. Conspiracy Theory, but I would not be surprised if the US government released these cables to Wikileaks and this whole Assange witch hunt is all smoke.

From what I've heard so far, nothing of any substance has been "leaked" and if anything, it is more indicative of how much the US is trying to police the world. Something that everyone already knows.

Where's the cable that involves an assassination cover-up? How about one where the US bribes a smaller country to do some of its dirty work? The closest thing I've read was some dialog with Yemen where the local government said they would take ownership of some US bombing.

I guess I was hoping for a little more out of these things.

Re:Said it once... (4, Informative)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462596)

Releasing the information was, at best, arguably illegal only on a case-by-case basis, as much of it was (supposedly) public information anyhow.

More importantly, it was only Pfc. Bradley Manning who leaked the information (and thus broke any applicable laws). Julian Assage/Wikileaks only published it afterward.

Re:Said it once... (0, Troll)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462672)

What if I hacked your email account and posted information that you didn't really care about? Would you be mad that I hacked your email account and posted your emails?

Why do you want to deny the rights to the US government that you'd like for yourself?

Re:Said it once... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462816)

If you hacked my email, I would go after you, not your web host...

Re:Said it once... (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462870)

Are you implying that Wiki-leaks did anything resembling hacking an e-mail account?

Going back to reading slashdot. (4, Insightful)

x1n933k (966581) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462472)

I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences. I'd like to work someday and possibly travel to the US. I'd rather just pretend I don't know what's happening. Besides, none of this really affects me. It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way. At least now yet.

[J]

Re:Going back to reading slashdot. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462620)

I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences. I'd like to work someday and possibly travel to the US. I'd rather just pretend I don't know what's happening. Besides, none of this really affects me. It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way. At least now yet.

Despite your best efforts I'm afraid you've commented on it anyway. Better luck next time.

Re:Going back to reading slashdot. (3, Insightful)

pitchpipe (708843) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462732)

It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way.

Don't fool yourself. The US is supposed to be THE paragon of freedom of speech. If this is the ideal (I'm not saying that it is), how are those other governments going to react in light of the fact that they don't purport to hold freedom of speech in such high regard?

Besides, I think that you just contradicted yourself:

I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences.

His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (1)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462480)

I thought a proper Swiss bank account didn’t even have record of who its owner was. Maybe he did it wrong.

Re:His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (1)

badran (973386) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462590)

Those do not exist now.

Re:His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462600)

He has an account in Switzerland. You're thinking of "numbered accounts", the kind the extremely wealthy use to hide there ill-gotten gains. You can bet the cost of having a numbered account is greater than the $31k donation fund currently frozen.

Re:His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462746)

He has an account in Switzerland. You're thinking of "numbered accounts", the kind the extremely wealthy use to hide there ill-gotten gains. You can bet the cost of having a numbered account is greater than the $31k donation fund currently frozen.

I just looked it up online ... while not inexpensive, numbered accounts are not that bad: there's a hefty new account fee of CHF 1299, but then only CHF 500 / year service fee. That's not zero, but it is a very small fraction of the CHF 250,000 minimum balance. If your're the kind of client who is going to balk at CHF 500 per year to maintain anonymity, then you probably don't have CHF 250,000 to worry about.

The real problem is that any US citizen is not legally allowed to have such an account, and you must apply in person with a proof of citizenship.

Re:His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462636)

The Swiss banks have allowed the US gov to look at the accounts for terrorists and tax dodgers.

This opening of the accounts to the US to look at killed the idea of private accounts.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/death-of-a-loophole-and-swiss-banks-will-mourn/ [nytimes.com]

this give s good run down of the tax loop hole closure and the threats to foreign banks.

Re:His Swiss bank account has been frozen? (1)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462858)

Yeah, someone published it on Wikileaks...

Cheesy plot (1)

Atmanman (1651259) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462504)

Its like someone switched the plot to consensus reality with that of a cheap cyber punk novel. Oh well, at least its not a Phillip K Dick story... yet. Wake me up when they finally immanentize the eschaton.

"Bullying And Manipulating" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462506)

Why would anybody be surprised that the USA bullies or manipulates other countries for its own benefit? Its what any top power has done, and what any aspiring power wants to do.

Considering the US is the richest, mightiest, most powerful and most influential country in the history of world, its more of a surprise it hasn't used more of its powers to control the world. The rest of the world should be glad the United States is such a benevolent power and overall force for good in the world.

Summary is inaccurate (1)

Geoffrey.landis (926948) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462650)

But the summary in the article is very inaccurate. The actual article refernced makes a lot of innuendo, but doesn't actually show any "bullying and manipulating" at all. It says that US diplomats were asked to find evidence of "UN treaty circumvention" and "deals between nations." Well, yes, that seems to be something diplomats should do. And it suggested that the US made some offers of foreign aid in response to countries doing what we want. Well, yes, that's how foreign aid works.
The article seems to be detailing diplomacy as usual.

Re:"Bullying And Manipulating" (4, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462682)

Why would anybody be surprised that the USA bullies or manipulates other countries for its own benefit? Its what any top power has done, and what any aspiring power wants to do.

Considering the US is the richest, mightiest, most powerful and most influential country in the history of world, its more of a surprise it hasn't used more of its powers to control the world. The rest of the world should be glad the United States is such a benevolent power and overall force for good in the world.

"In the history of the world?" Uh, how are you measuring that? I can think of at least three other Empires that, by any reasonable standards, have exercised far more control over a far greater geographic area.

I think that most parts of Central and South America have a very different view of the US's benevolence than you do. We have a sixty plus year history down there of overthrowing democratically elected leaders that our corporate overlords don't like. We don't just meddle to spread democracy, we also meddle to protect our economic interests. At the barest whiff that some country in our sphere of influence might be thinking about nationalizing anything, we send in the CIA and military advisers at the very least.

The DDoS against Paypal was wrong... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462514)

.. if indeed it was hit and if really for the reason implied.

Re:The DDoS against Paypal was wrong... (1)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462604)

You could always read the linked article. Geez.

Some excerpts:

An online army of WikiLeaks supports downed the PayPal blog for more than eight hours, according to a report by security researcher Sean-Paul Correll at Panda Labs.

PayPal claimed it shut down Wikileaks' account because the "payment service cannot be used for any activities that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity".

It didn't explain how the leaking of information can be regarded as illegal.

And regarding that last bit: Was anybody actually trying to argue that whoever leaked the information to Wikileaks wasn’t breaking the law? I mean, it might or might not be illegal for Wikileaks to publish it, but leaking it was certainly illegal. Somebody with access to classified documents leaked them. (And whether or not it was really the guy they claim they caught is another question entirely.)

I don’t think it’s in the least bit hard to justify the statement that Wikileaks was encouraging people to break the law, since that was how it got most of its juicy information.

Re:The DDoS against Paypal was wrong... (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462670)

Following that line of thinking, why would Paypal even have allowed them to open an account in the first place?

The timing is very suspect, don't you think? I mean, come on...it's not like Wikileaks appeared last week. They've been around for a while.

Re:The DDoS against Paypal was wrong... (1)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462728)

Yeah, it’s almost like they only disabled the account after they heard about it on the news. Like they don’t personally vet every person who opens an account...

Assange Sighted In (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462518)

Chile two days ago.

I hope everyone posts informative information so U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman can continue with his fascism.

Yours In Osh,
K. Trout

what's been interesting (4, Insightful)

jbolden (176878) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462532)

For me both this and the Afghan war wikileaks showed that journalism is working again. It seems that after the failures that led to Iraq the media really is doing a better job. Most everything in the leaks was rumored. Also its nice to see the USA is doing pretty much what it claims to be doing. Of course what's also interesting is no one is even attempting to deny these facts. Wikileaks has become the most reliable source we have on many topics. The government freak out is just what corporate America and then consumer America had to deal with a 15 and 10 years ago. Welcome to the internet age.

The most interesting topic is what this reveals about Pakistan and Afghanistan. Its time to level with everyone involved and I hope the congress has a vigerous debate about Afghan policy this time around.

Re:what's been interesting (4, Insightful)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462808)

and I hope the congress has a vigerous debate about Afghan policy this time around.

Yeah, this is how that "vigorous" debate will go...

SENATOR ASSHAT: So, it seems the Afghan situation is far more complex than it initially seemed...
SENATOR LIEBERMAN: TERRORISM!
SENATOR STUPID: Right then, it's all settled. I'm off to lunch.

Close your Amazon now! (1)

lixee (863589) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462534)

Time to walk the walk. Close any Amazon or Amazon-owned (Paypal, eBay, Skype, etc.) accounts you may have. Make sure you explain why you are doing so.

Re:Close your Amazon now! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462676)

Paypal, eBay and Skype are owned by eBay and dont have any ties to Amazon. Refer wikipedia for the complete list. Some famous ones are imdb, abebooks, Alexa.

Re:Close your Amazon now! (4, Informative)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462734)

...Amazon-owned (Paypal, eBay, Skype, etc.)...

Amazon doesn't own Paypal, eBay or Skype. eBay owns Paypal, but no longer controls even a majority of Skype. Skype is also in the process of being completely spun off with it's own IPO.

Re:Close your Amazon now! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462822)

Retard.

Re: Michael Geist (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462594)

"copyright negotiations largely meet expectations" is misleading. More like, "confirm that the US has been bullying other countries into changing their laws to suit US interests".

Re: Michael Geist (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462820)

I think this was already known publicly. I don't think that we knew the specifics, but in recent times governments have been complaining about that sort of behavior.

Additionally, it doesn't take a genius to see that what the US negotiators are likely looking at is what we've got in the US or more, which pretty strongly suggests that other nations would have to change their laws to suit our interests.

However, it is worth noting that the US exports a lot of IP of various sorts, and we have been ripped off for quite a bit of it over the years. I don't think that justifies the particular provisions we're looking for, but it is hardly a shock that we'd want to deal with that problem.

Particularly in China where misappropriation of our IP is endemic and where the authorities seem to completely ignore the problem.

US Citizens - Contact Your Representatives (5, Insightful)

gQuigs (913879) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462608)

Tell them that you support Wikileaks and that you want answers about what the cables reveal the US Goverment is doing. That what the US is doing against Wikileaks in response to this is wrong and unAmerican. The response by the US Government is embarrassing.. it confirms that we really do all of these backhanded actions that the cables say.

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml [house.gov]
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm [senate.gov]

Re:US Citizens - Contact Your Representatives (4, Insightful)

qbast (1265706) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462736)

... and welcome to no-fly list.

Re:US Citizens - Contact Your Representatives (5, Interesting)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462776)

I’m already on my own no-fly list, and I’ll stay there until the TSA stops groping people to create a facade of security.

Re:US Citizens - Contact Your Representatives (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462768)

Too bad most Americans are cowards now. You will find nary a citizen who is willing to die for their liberties. George Washington would be greatly saddened and enraged by what has become of this nation.

List of US facilities? (4, Interesting)

BStroms (1875462) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462610)

I haven't been on the 'Wikileaks is a terrorist organization' bandwagon, understanding that it's important that crimes not be covered up. However, when I read earlier today about the leak of the list of vital US facilities, I had to wonder just what they're thinking. I honestly can't figure out how the release of that benefits the public in any way. Yet it provides information that anyone seeking to harm the US would find quite valuable.

I don't think information should be made public for the sake of making it public. There are some things that are better off kept secret.

What troubles me most (5, Interesting)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462624)

Is the fact that for the first time in my life, I am literally afraid of my Govt if I go to see a website and that I fully expect to be traced, put in a database, and labeled as some subversive. For going to a web address.

Hear! Hear! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462862)

I've been afraid since 9/11.

I had Arab classmates in grad school that I purposefully lost contact with because I was afraid that if I were associated with them, I could never a get job - at least one with a security clearance (I was trying to get a job with a defense contractor at the time.). My plans never came to be and in the meantime, my Arab ex-classmates are now in upper management at big multinational IT firms.

I'm unemployed with no job prospects and on wife support.

Yup, fear of our Government is hurting our economy and the employment of our country.

Paranoid? My wife has a couple of nurse friends - white women from old American families - who are searched every time at airports because - drum roll - they are married to a Turk and an Arab respectively.

"Verging on the criminal" (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462626)

Former UK Foreign Secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said WikiLeaks' actions were "verging on the criminal".

Since when do we arrest people for doing things that are almost illegal?

Pathetic (1)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462634)

Instead of these stories being posted when they actually happened and were submitted, we get them into one aggregated post weeks later. Sigh.

Then the editorial is oddly US bashing when most of the cables actually show the US acting responsibly, or at least not worse than any other country.

Re:Pathetic (1)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462686)

Instead of these stories being posted when they actually happened and were submitted, we get them into one aggregated post weeks later. Sigh.

Actually I’d prefer that. The minute-by-minute on Wikileaks is getting tiresome.

A worthy substitute for the Cold War (1)

oWj9*7!7dsggh7 (1952478) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462674)

This is really a momentous time in history. For the first time since the Cold War ended, there is a serious international political conflict in which everyone everywhere may see that they have some economic or intellectual stake.

After September 11th, I heard many older people in New York say, "I hoped not to live long enough to see this." Well, I'm grateful to be alive now to see this. It is a very important conflict.

Bullied and manipulated other countries? (1, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462708)

You mean that Wikileaks exposed the fact that the US used coercive force to get other states to agree to a treaty that the US will benefit from? I mean seriously. it is a common and accepted for of statecraft and diplomacy to use the offer of aid or the threat of less aid to get a state to make an agreement. When it's used, everyone involved knows that it's being used and why. It's no secret. In fact, any university course on international institutions is going to spend time on this very thing. I mean really. Now they are just "exposing" common tools of statecraft that have been used for centuries in an attempt to embarrass the United States. It's starting to get kind of sad. And I know I'm going to take a karma hit for this.

"Bullying and Manipulating" (0)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462752)

"Bullying and Manipulating" - Trumped up words for saying our diplomats are engaging in...DIPLOMACY. If they aren't doing whatever they can to make the best possible deals for our country without significantly jeopardizing our international relationships then they aren't doing their jobs. Next people are going to be surprised the used car salesman they bought from didn't convince them to buy that convertible for the purely altruistic reason of wanting to help them out with the ladies.

What I love about this whole mess (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34462778)

Is the utter lack of a reason for which they are prosecuting this guy.

He has done nothing illegal, or at least, nothing that is illegal in the US or UK. The BBC article pushes on with those bogus charges, which they perfectly know are crap.

It's a sad world, when the best source for news is 4chan.

Stop and Think (0)

MissNoItAll (1103281) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462832)

The new world order now thinks it's cute to dump your employers secrets on the Internet. Of course last week they were all for net privacy and never, never have they ever been for dumping THEIR secrets on the Internet. It's just so cute to be a trend setter...

Re:Stop and Think (1)

clone52431 (1805862) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462856)

Of course last week they were all for net privacy and never, never have they ever been for dumping THEIR secrets on the Internet.

No, last week they were dumping their own secrets on MySpace and were shocked, just shocked, when their employer discovered them.

Where is Assange? (1)

skywatcher2501 (1608209) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462894)

Do the Governments know where Assange is? So I heard he's hopping from one airport to another, do you think that's true? And perhaps also the safest thing for avoiding being arrested?

Who is is for the Nobel Peace Prize? (-1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34462898)

Who is is for the Nobel Peace Prize?! Assange?! Hmmm... :D

Well, if the Nobel Committee f&cked with Chine, why not the Hilarious Clit?!

The eventual, actual effects of these Wikileak acts will be have to evaluated in perhaps twenty or thirty years. No doubt, Assange, relied on Wikipedia's founder, who relied in part on Torvalds, who came up with GPL.

So, in, if history or the 'winner', or, whoever decides to rwrite hisotry in their favour, or?

Immediately? Probably not, and not even desired... Or?! No? Oh, well. I can wait out whatever the decision may be. While it would have been good TV, I really cannot make out if their efforts have been worth while. The side effects seem out of proportion. It is a bit over my head, for now.

Cheers!

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