×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

RIP, SunSolve

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the to-the-moon-instead dept.

Oracle 100

Kymermosst writes "Today marks the last day that SunSolve will be available. Oracle sent the final pre-deployment details today for the retirement of SunSolve and the transition to its replacement, My Oracle Support Release 5.2, which begins tomorrow. People who work with Sun's hardware and software have long used SunSolve as a central location for specifications, patches, and documentation."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

100 comments

so what? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510050)

news for nerds? NO
stuff that matters? NO

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to jack off with visions of Kim Kardashian's puckered asshole dancing through my head.

Re:so what? (4, Interesting)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510108)

sun hardware fuel the first dot.com revolution
the fact that sun solve died means something to some of the hardcorest nerd so I consider that it is revelant

Re:so what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510772)

bwahaha, no. .coms were flush with capital, so they spent it on stupid things like $1000 chairs and, yes, overpriced sun hardware. They could have saved their money and bought Dells running Linux.

Re:so what? (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34521162)

linux was not mature enough when the party started, and things you could do on sun's hardware was only match by the things you could do on the SGI

Re:so what? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511720)

Ironic ain't it that you can buy Sun Ray Thin Clients [surpluscomputers.com] for less than $20 now with free shipping. But I'll probably get hate for saying it but Sun deserved to die. Lets be honest folks they have been flailing around with no real business plan or clue for longer than most would like to admit. One day they were "yay Linux!" the next "Linux boo!" one day "yay SPARC" the next "X86 roxorz!". At least with oracle buying them Solaris and SPARC will continue, and will actually probably gain some share.

My prediction is that Oracle setting a new DB record [arstechnica.com] is a sign of what is to come: Oracle will offer a customized SPARC running a highly tweaked Solaris with both made from the ground up to maximize Oracle DB TPM. For smaller companies they will offer an "Oracle Cloud" solution where you can have Oracle host the DB and get crazy TPM without having to have the crazy hardware, and for the larger enterprises they will have a combo cloud/offline solution where you can host it all with them, all on site, or any combo you desire.

As much as the FLOSS guys want to cuss at Oracle, even they should be willing to admit old Larry knows how to make a ROI, and honestly they should be thanking their lucky stars as it could have been MUCH worse. Imagine if some patent troll would have bought out Sun. It would have made the SCO mess look like a Sunday tea party with all the patents they had. And the GPL still says you can have the code, just not the patents and copyrights. So I really don't get all the Oracle hate around here. Sure they're not throwing their weight behind FLOSS but you know what? why should they, Oracle isn't Red hat. And frankly I don't see the FLOSS community being big Oracle customers anyway.

Re:so what? (1)

humphrm (18130) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514788)

Indeed. The start of the death of the "Old Sun" was the whole "we're the .com" or whatever it was, right before .com imploded.

The next step was taking an investment from KKR... In fact I wouldn't be surprised if KKR didn't push the Oracle deal.

So whatever Sun *was*, died in about 2002 and got buried in 2007 (KKR). At least Oracle found something to do with the body.

Re:so what? (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34521238)

I think that your are quite right, they deserved to die. They were mismanaged, I had a minor role at Sun, in 2006, as a campus ambassador, but still I had to report to three different boss that each gave me partially conflicting objectives. I can imagine that higher up the hierarchy the management could only get worse

Also They were into a lot of greenfield project that did not have any hint of business case behind them. Sure it is a good idea to fund one or two of those projects, since you never know what might come out but to bet the company on that, it is reckless.

Re:so what? : Get your patches now!!! (5, Informative)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510648)

Seriously, go download all the patches you can, because knowing Oracle, you won't be able to afterward. I'm personally grabbing the last releases of Solaris 10 (Sparc and X86), as well as the latest recommended patch sets, the last OpenBoot Prom for my Sparc system, and the latest Sun/Oracle Compilers and their associated patches. With all the changes Oracle has been making putting all this further and further behind paywalls tied to their support contracts (without which according to some interpretations, you can't even upgrade the OS release revision past what came with your system anymore, unlike Sun's attitude where if you bought a sparc box, you can run any version as long as the architecture is still on the supported list).

why bother (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511772)

I have long worried about stuff like this and ended up with a basement and a loft full of redundant old crap nobody is interested in anymore. In five years time, all you will have is some old sun boxes that have been surpassed by who knows what new hardware the future brings. Why is that? Because within one year, competitors computers will be so much cheaper to buy and get support for that replacing sun boxes will be cheaper than maintaining them. You're flogging a dying horse trying to get a few "free" more steps out of it before you'll have to pay for them. Sell the horse while it's still walking, and buy something not cursed with the money you get for your hardware.

Re:why bother (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34514404)

A lot of shops have apps that cannot be migrated instantly to other platforms, so they need to maintain their existing Sun infrastructure while they pursue such a migration effort, which could take years to accomplish given typical business IT resource constraints. Good idea, but the devil is in the execution.

RO

Archive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510116)

And of course the community made a copy?

Memo to employees. (5, Funny)

copponex (13876) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510126)

It is I, Ellison of Larry.

I am communicating from my iPad device on my yacht, which is constructed out of the carcasses of a thousand dead corporations. As I recline on my chaise-lounge and ponder your meaninglessness as I wait for the completion of my moon base, I want to assure you that the rumors stating that the turnip is almost dry are simply untrue. I have rebranded it as Oracle Turnip and raised the price by 10,000% for all of our hapless clients who are locked into the platform. Everything will be just fine.

Signed,
The One who is more magnificent than your greatest conception of God

Re:Memo to employees. (0)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510162)

I have rebranded it as Oracle Turnip and raised the price by 10,000% for all of our hapless clients who are locked into the platform. Everything will be just fine.

Signed, The One who is more magnificent than your greatest conception of God

You're not the real Larry Ellison, you're an imposter.

Re:Memo to employees. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510300)

I don't know; Oracle rebranded and unbundled a particular product that was a free part of the base OS until recently, and just quoted a (large) company already locked in to using it a million dollars (minus epsilon) for the licensing and support for 3 years.

Multiply by (probably several thousand enterprise users of that software suite)...

It may not be Larry posting here *cough* but a lot of customers feel like turnips right now.

Re:Memo to employees. (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510694)

I'm guessing s/he's talking about Xen (Sun xVM), but then s/he uses the term "softwware suite," so I'm not sure. Maybe Solstice DiskSuite, but I thought that was already unbundled.

Re:Memo to employees. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34514420)

XEN is not related to Sun OR xVM/Virtualbox

Re:Memo to employees. (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510582)

Signed, The One who is more magnificent than your greatest conception of God

You're not the real Larry Ellison, you're an imposter.

You're right. Those extra 11 words were a dead giveaway. :-D

Support for Oracle Turnip (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34513216)

Note: Oracle Turnip (R) initial version will 8.0.1459.73.42 and will not be compatible with previous customizations and is delivered dry with the Oracle Wrinkles documentation. Oracle Professional Services may be engaged to provide value added methods and interfaces.

Support will only be provided for the base Turnip (dry). Professional services must be engaged for working product support.

Note: Additional Oracle Licensing is required for any Turnip which is viewable by the public.

Note: Additional Oracle Licensing is required for Highly Available Turnips (Oracle HAT).

Re:Memo to employees. (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510260)

Signed,
The One who is more magnificent than your greatest conception of God (but wearing girl's kimono)

Re:Memo to employees. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510326)

chaise-lounge

It's chaise longue, bozo -- as in long chair.

Re:Memo to employees. (2)

angus77 (1520151) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510742)

chaise-lounge

It's chaise longue, bozo -- as in long chair.

You didn't get the memo. Larry's had the spelling changed. You're expected to have migrated already.

Re:Memo to ..er.. You're the real Larry Ellison (1)

dkalley (776724) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511554)

chaise-lounge

It's chaise longue, bozo -- as in long chair.

Your argument is about two hundred years too late, English speakers haven't said long chair in a long time. It is lounge as in lazy.

Re:Memo to ..er.. You're the real Larry Ellison (1)

N Monkey (313423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512414)

chaise-lounge

It's chaise longue, bozo -- as in long chair.

Your argument is about two hundred years too late, English speakers haven't said long chair in a long time. It is lounge as in lazy.

Au contraire: [google.com]

very funny! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34524844)

I read this comment while at work at Oracle and I almost spit out coffee all over my laptop. This is EXACTLY how I picture our Fearless Leader.

my orcale suppor sucks (4, Informative)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510312)

My Oracle support sucks, the damn thing is flash, you can't reply via email only by logging back in and trying to use it. It fails quite often and loses anything you typed in. Plus they do anything to avoid calling you.

It is the worst support portal I have ever seen.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510520)

And every Oracle DBA on the planet says "Well duh, but it's better than what we had..."

I was told a story by a DBA (around 2002) that in order to place a support question to Oracle they had to do the following:

1) Type the question into a text file. It had to be in MS-DOS format.
2) Tar and gzip the question. It had to have the extension .tgz - tar.gz would not be accepted.
3) Upload the question via a support forum on their website. You could not e-mail the question.
4) Wait 3-5 business days for a response. If after no response after 5 days you could then submit another request asking what happened to the first request. It had to be in a .tgz as well.

For the hundreds of thousands of dollars we paid in licensing fees, I was dumbstruck. I believe the only thing I could say was "but, but, but..."

Bye bye Sun. It was nice knowing you.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

dogsbreath (730413) | more than 3 years ago | (#34513506)

Bye bye Sun. It was nice knowing you.

Are there ANY Sun shops left out there? Who are they selling to???

Moving away from Sun/Solaris is so easy now.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

ti1ion (239188) | more than 3 years ago | (#34513780)

Yes there are.

They sell to companies run by older, conservative managers, such as banks and other established companies (think essential service providers, for example). These people still think Linux is some crazy, unproven, security hole ridden toy not ready for the enterprise. Many of them have not kept up with tech for 30 years and believe anything they are told by salespeople. Oh, and many of them hate IBM (the good old days, you know).

I've tried to move my company away from Sun hardware and was shot down every time.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (2)

dogsbreath (730413) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514540)

Obviously they have their heads stuck in the sand. Data center footprint issues alone make it cost friendly to move off of Sun. Given how much now runs on IBM or Intel chips and given the maturity of Linux, there really is no reason not to and lots of positives for getting rid of Sun.

I will say this though, IMHO, Solaris is still a far better industrial strength o/s than Linux. This is an opinion based on years of work with both. Solaris' i/o handling, network stack, scheduler, stability, and transparency of upgrades are superior to Linux across the board.

But Linux works, and it works well. And there are no problems with Linux that cannot be dealt with one way or another. And there's no bullshit. And I can run it on the best h/w. Sun h/w sucks. I know this is a troll statement but I have worked with Sun h/w for 20 yrs and the current offerings are outdated, relatively poor performing and power hungry. And heavy. And ugly.

Virtualization choices and functionality are better with Linux, and that is the number one issue today.

The only place I would use Sun h/w today is for either web or dns services. The T servers running Solaris really kick butt for high network connectivity, highly parallel internet services.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

ti1ion (239188) | more than 3 years ago | (#34521034)

You said that better than I could, and I agree with you. Tellingly, your comments regarding virtualization bear out precisely what is happening in my organization today.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 3 years ago | (#34516712)

Oracle has some really intriguing products, but they've raised arrogant indifference to their customers to an art form. For years their attitude toward tech support was that if their wonderful product bites you on the ass, it must be because you aren't smart enough to use it. And of course we all know about their byzantine licensing models which they're all too happy to let customers trip over, after which they are not at all inclined to extend a helpful hand.

What drives this is a sense of entitlement; a belief that you *have* to use Oracle's products that they've successfully foisted on many of their customers because most people in this world are apparently incapable of critical thought.

In truth Oracle products do have many useful and unique features, but as a designer I'd be chary of relying on those features because if you are an Oracle customer, Oracle isn't your friend. Of course no vendor is *really* your friend, but Oracle in particular is a vendor you can't trust because they don't care if they do something that makes you hate them, provided they've got you locked in.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510678)

My Oracle support sucks...

It is the worst support portal I have ever seen.

Plus ça change, plus ça reste pareil

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

mizzouxc (985151) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510702)

My Oracle support sucks, the damn thing is flash, you can't reply via email only by logging back in and trying to use it. It fails quite often and loses anything you typed in. Plus they do anything to avoid calling you.

It is the worst support portal I have ever seen.

It works just like any oracle deployment!

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510844)

There is a non-flash version, at supporthtml.oracle.com if memory serves.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510884)

I agree, the portal is a mess since they change it...and it's true the support is very bad...you ask them to call you or to connect to help you and they don't reply or don't do it...or just ask you a lot of trace files they don't read.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510900)

At least it sounds more reliable than the beehive email product we use internally at Oracle.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511492)

My Oracle support sucks, the damn thing is flash, you can't reply via email only by logging back in and trying to use it. It fails quite often and loses anything you typed in. Plus they do anything to avoid calling you.

It is the worst support portal I have ever seen.

I can fix that for you. Buy a Dell laptop. It is now the second worst you've seen.

Re:my orcale suppor sucks (1)

Snorbert Xangox (10583) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512992)

You obviously never used the Sun Member Support Center. Getting a report on your installed base felt like one of those children's book with the 45rpm record that would read a few words to you and then play a xylophone note when you should turn the page:

20 rows of results... ding! Turn the page!
Another 20 rows... ding!
Losing will to live... ding!

...with no apparent way to export the data as a big file. Wow, who would have thought that the big future of computing was somebody copying and pasting rows of data from a #$)@ Web app.

If only Sun had spent less time on all their zero-revenue "Project [some fancy name]" boondoggles, and more on Project Let's Not Piss Off Our Existing Customers.

And nothing of value was lost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34510550)

EOM

Oracle is pure evil. (5, Informative)

ZorinLynx (31751) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510614)

Oracle loves to destroy a good thing, don't they?

Back in the old days you could simply FTP anonymously to sunsolve.sun.com to download Solaris patches. It worked great; you could do it from the command line, no need for a browser or logins or anything like that.

Heck, I remember setting up Enterprise 250s using serial consoles, and FTPing to sunsolve to download the patch clusters, then installing them.

Nowadays not only do you need a web browser and an account, but you can't get patches at all without an expensive support contract. And on top of that, when we got our support contract they screwed things up and didn't even give us the proper permissions to get our patches. It took a *MONTH* of wrangling to get them to fix their festering pile of shit.

I miss you, Sun Microsystems. Oracle is the devil. We won't be buying any more Sun/Oracle hardware from this point forth, that's for sure.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (3, Interesting)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510804)

Nowadays not only do you need a web browser and an account, but you can't get patches at all without an expensive support contract.

To be fair, that happened before Oracle acquired Sun.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (2)

EvilStein (414640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514232)

I logged into the mess we knew as Slashdot to point out that very same thing. Sun went to the stupid "web portal for everything!" setup way before they were gobbled up by Oracle. It sucked then, and it *really* sucks now.

Oracle just turned the suck knob to 11.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (1)

h8sg8s (559966) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511038)

I miss Sun too. I never thought I'd admit this, but HPUX is a pretty decent UNIX after all. Too much Solaris/SPARC koolaid for too many years, but I'm recovering.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511336)

I got my start on SunOS, then Solaris and IRIX. When I went professional, I spent years on HP-UX and AIX. I played a tiny bit with various *BSDs and even NextStep in there as well. HP-UX is a fine OS, and even has some advantages over Solaris. Between the two, I'd probably choose Solaris in a perfect world and HP-UX in a compromise world, but in a practical world, Linux, not HP-UX is going to replace Solaris.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (1)

timbo234 (833667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512042)

Nowadays not only do you need a web browser with a modern version of Flash and an account, but you can't get patches at all without an expensive support contract.

FTFY

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34514178)

Not quite "modern" - from the login page for support.oracle.com:
"My Oracle Support requires Adobe Flash Player 9.0.115 or above."

So it can be sluggish AND insecure.

FYI: there is a non-Flash alternaitve, but it is the "poor step-child" in terms of feature set. It is good enough for me to upload the multi-100 MB''s of diagnostic info files for a given SR (Service Request, formerly known as "TAR") from a staging RHEL server inside our corporate network so I do not have to relay those files through my PC. This is important since 64-bit RHEL 4+ does not have a supported Flash plugin for its version of Firefox - shame on Adobe (also)!
Here is the HTML version link:
https://supporthtml.oracle.com/ep/faces/secure/ml3/homepage/home.jspx

HTH
RO

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (1)

portwojc (201398) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512460)

Honestly any company that buys another always wants to get rid of the old ways. No matter how well they worked. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Re:Oracle is pure evil. (1)

segedunum (883035) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512762)

Wow. Just wow. Given how bad things eventually got for Sun you would have thought that Oracle would want to look after the remaining paying customers, wouldn't you?

I worked on it for quite a few years (1)

grahamsz (150076) | more than 3 years ago | (#34515898)

In fact it's probably still the biggest project I ever got my hands on.

I think there were always some patches that weren't available without a support contract. We ended up having to hack some support into the ftp server to talk to the java authentication backend somewhere.

Still i'm undoubtedly a little sad to see the end of it.

The Oracle Store sucks too... (4, Informative)

DorkFest (857124) | more than 3 years ago | (#34510722)

I ordered a couple of spare drive modules for some Sun X4540's I manage. I used the online store at Oracle.com It took a month to get the parts for one, and two, when I tried to get updates on the order, they never could connect me to the right people. I always ended up getting connected to some place in India who told me they were the wrong people to talk to. They gave me the "correct" number, which connected me back to the people who connected me to India in the first place, who connected me to India again. You see the vicious cycle. I ended up emailing store@sun.com and someone finally figured out WTF was going on. Oracle, eat a plate of dick. You suck.

Re:The Oracle Store sucks too... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34512714)

Try ordering Oracle Database Standard Edition One. The store used to throw errors on every order. Getting people on the phone, nobody seemed to (a) know, (b) care, or (c) be interested in revenue that small. Why the heck have the store, then?

A moment of silence, please (4, Insightful)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511314)

This is no longer the beginning of the end - it's rapidly approaching the 'fat lady sings' point in time. Sunsolve's demise is one of the last nails in the coffin.

We're a big Sun customer in a city of many big sun customers. We have tried hard to work with Oracle, but when they say that our division in the company will have its applications software maintenance (Apps _only!_ No hardware, no OS support) increased by nearly $4M/year, it very quickly becomes time to look at alternatives. We have two years to divest ourselves of all Sun/Oracle solutions, and with the extra cost of OS licensing (not support!) on non-Oracle hardware (I believe $1500/socket/year to install Solaris on third party gear), the incentive to run a superior OS fades. In two years, I suspect that we'll have gone from >90% Sun/Oracle gear running Solaris to 30%, and it'll only be that high because of the inertia shift required to replace 500+ servers.

TO be fair, Jonathan Schwartz killed Sun before Larry ponied up the cash, but Oracle had a choice to rebuild the Sun brand, and chose to go the other way instead.

I just wish I'd remembered to grab the latest patch bundles today--they may not be available tomorrow.

Re:A moment of silence, please (2)

turtleshadow (180842) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511398)

We are in the process of sunsetting all SUN branded equipment for vendors other than Oracle. Its taken over 6 months to renew some contracts and expended far too many cycles & was so painful for us to be worth it to do it again.

For us as a customer its obvious that its a circus inside.

Oracle has chopped off those that used to resell SUN support and service at the knees. These were the guys that would go the extra mile for us, their local customers, yet were told by the great Oracle to take a hike as Oracle would do it better. Apparently we are not worthy of a gov sector sales call back for the EOL boxes we are looking to shelve at this point next year.

We are neither big nor tiny but do a lot of .gov.. I remember cutting my teeth in univ on both IBM & SUN equipment; that led to favorable sales when I entered the industry. I'll miss SUN so much .

On the bright side I hope a bunch of good ex-SUN or ex-IBM or ex whoever people are working hard to bury their former companies who make decisions because of investor avarice not because of in house innovation and genius.

Re:A moment of silence, please (1)

gtirloni (1531285) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512702)

If Oracle isn't rebuilding Sun, I don't know what it's doing. MSC and SunSolve were the worst websites I've even seen in my life. MOS isn't great but it's much better. The patch bundles have always been available only to paying customers. What's your point? What a bunch of crap.

Re:A moment of silence, please (1)

TheSunborn (68004) | more than 3 years ago | (#34513068)

True as that may be, the replacement is even worse. It require flash for gods sake. How can Oracle be so fucked up?

I think it went like this.

Sun support: Well, our current support website sucks. It is in fact the worst support site I can possible imagine.
Oracle developer: Ha, I can beat that. (Implements new hell site in flash).
Sun support: Ok you win, our old site was not the worst possible support site. Now let's get a beer while we listen to our (Soon to be ex) customers scream.

Re:A moment of silence, please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34515304)

If Oracle isn't rebuilding Sun, I don't know what it's doing.

MSC and SunSolve were the worst websites I've even seen in my life. MOS isn't great but it's much better.

The patch bundles have always been available only to paying customers. What's your point?

What a bunch of crap.

And again, you don't know what you're talking about. Again.

How can you love something that REQUIRES Macromedia Flash in order to operate?

I used Oracle support for years. The webapp wasn't great, but it was fast and usable. The Flash junk they have now is horrible.

You're a troll, mister.

-- UX admin

Re:A moment of silence, please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34523316)

You're right I do hear a fat lady singing in the background.

My Whatever (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34511848)

Why do companies insist on calling things "My Oracle Support" or "MySpace" or "My Whatever". It just sound so childish. "SunSolve" sounds like a tool which will actually help you solve stuff, "My Oracle Support" sounds like a helpdesk where some idiot asks me which version of Windows is running on my Solaris server or if I tried rebooting my Mainframe yet.

Re:My Whatever (2)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 3 years ago | (#34513130)

Well I think the idea behind it from a marketing perspective is to make people feel like its a sort of concierge service and it will be catered directly to them. The thing is with big high dollar enterprisy type stuff is I don't want it to feel that way, I expect it to be that way. A little personal attention and a prompt response is not much to ask for considering the dollars attached to many of these support contracts.

I agree with you My Whatever makes me think I am calling some generalized helpdesk. I want to talk to a professional who can help solve my problem, and BTW Oracle, you are not HP you don't also sell consumer stuff, if we are are calling you we know what are problem *is* we actually need help fixing it not identifying it, skip the first level crap please.

not always (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34514448)

" . . . if we are are calling you we know what are problem *is* we actually need help fixing it not identifying it, skip the first level crap please."

I can tell you from experience in the Sun support trenches that is not always the case. "it's broken" is still considered an appropriate statement of the issue for many of the people we end up dealing with. We WISH all the customers were a bit more savvy about their systems, configs, networks, etc., actually that's how it used to be a decade ago, when data center and system adminstration tasks were done "in house" and not by huge IT service providers.

This too shall pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34512456)

Goodbye Sunsolve, you will be sorely missed. Over the last few years our Sun support has gone down the shitter. We are a big Sun customer but not for much longer.

It used to be that as a valued customer I could pull patches straight to the boxes that needed them from the FTP site. It used to be that I could speak to a knowledgeable team of UNIX experts when I called Sun support. It used to be that the support engineers really added value be cause they cared about their jobs.

Now this has gone. I can only download patches via a web browser. I can't speak to any experts, they tell me to update to the latest kernel patches and fuck off.

I questioned why I couldn't download patches from the FTP site any more and got this response:

"If we drop them onto the FTP site you can pull patches without formally signing up to T&Cs around infringement. From the Oracle website, the customer must click a box to ensure they understand they licensing terms that they're agreeing to. This means that you understand that you won't infringe our Software Policy. The FTP site doesn't present you with this, and the employee will probably find themselves with a disciplinary from deviating from policy for dropping them onto the FTP site for you. "

They have also started to charge us for installing legacy Solaris into zones to support some of our old applications.

So that sums the current state of play up for me. I hate what has happened to Sun over the years, there are a lot of great people working there but we are migrating away now, another customer lost for Oracle.

No Wonder /. is Running Solaris Migration Ads (1)

segedunum (883035) | more than 3 years ago | (#34512974)

I was intrigued to see those Suse/Novell/IBM sponsored ads at the top of the page when I wasn't logged in. Now I understand why. Whereas Sun have steadily got themselves into trouble over the past ten years Oracle have now really accelerated the process to the point where you can see the end for anything SPARC or Solaris related in the next couple of years. Not even Oracle can absorb the kind of losses Sun must be making now.

Whereas you would have thought that Oracle would want to make existing customers as happy as possible and rebuild the customer base from there, their strategy seems to be to try and screw existing customers as hard as possible to maximise revenue. Whereas this has worked in software and their database business in the past because people have generally got themselves locked into PL/SQL and Oracle's archane infrastructure the fly-in-the-ointment is that people have proved that over the past ten years they have been more than willing to move away from Solaris and SPARC, and it's much easier to switch hardware and then operating systems with the advent of Linux than it is specific applications. Oracle's software runs on more than just Solaris so their customers have a migration path off anyway.

Oracle just don't understand the business, in other words. McNealy should have sold to IBM if he wanted anything at all to remain.

ftp.sunsolve.com not working (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34513118)

For those of you trying to access ftp.sunsolve.com, it is not working now:

$ ftp ftp.sunsolve.com
Connected to ftp.sunsolve.com.
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ----------
220-You are user number 1 of 50 allowed.
220-Local time is now 08:52. Server port: 21.
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity.
Name (ftp.sunsolve.com:ediaz): anonymous
421 Can't change directory to /var/ftp/ [/]
Login failed.
No control connection for command: Success

Convoluted... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34513242)

I haven't even managed to make it over to the new system. The signup/conversion is so convoluted and time-consuming that I haven't had a chance to get it done yet. Seriously Oracle, some of us have jobs to do, we don't have all day to play your games.

Sad day for Sun (1)

shatteredsoul (144565) | more than 3 years ago | (#34513910)

It is a sad sad day for the Sun community. I am an Enterprise Solaris admin, and it requires working with Sun on almost a daily basis. I still have trouble choking down the ability to call them Oracle. The change is not going to be easy to handle, especially with the fact that Oracle Mysupport is all Flash based (ugh). Hopefully the transition goes better than Sun's last update for their support site.

I'm actually happy with this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34513964)

My whole IT experience is based on Solaris; this was the very first real Unix environment I got to know (thanks to a company course) and it was also what got me involved with Linux. At first I used Linux to keep up my knowledge and expertise on Solaris (although there were Solaris x86 versions available those were also frickin' expensive!).

At a later time Solaris' price dropped (sorta) and with 10 it was even totally free. Yet free or not I still applied for a support contract. Why? 3 reasons: full updates. Sun was smart; they provided free security updates in order to prevent one of their OS's to easily become a drone (my main complaint with MS; at least provide security updates for free. You don't fight piracy by denying updates; you're only making it easier for botnets to form dumbasses). However; "premium" updates (you know; stuff allowing you to move from Solaris 9 to Solaris 11 without reinstalling) weren't free.

Second (although really 3rd, but it sounds better) was to support Sun. I actually respected what Sun did, enjoyed their products and so I felt really comfortable paying for support on Solaris.

Third (but really 2nd) was access to SunSolve. That site was amazing! My first "real" Sun computer (read: something usable with a modern OS like Solaris 10) was a Blade 100. Before that I had a Sparcstation 5 running on Solaris 7 (beautiful box still IMO). SunSolve even gave me access to the *full* specs of my Sparc5. A machine maybe even 5 to 10 years old at that time. That was something I've always admired of Sun; full information fully available, no matter how old the product.

Well.. Sad times indeed. The Whoracle take over has already made me look seriously into FreeBSD (planned conversion is scheduled next year) because I won't continue to use Solaris anymore since I have very little trust in its future (even less trust in OpenSolaris at that).

So yes; this kinda makes me feel good since the only thing which could have tempted me to hang around is gone. My ties with Sun are officially cut now, I'm moving on.

Well, apart from Java which I do continue to use but alas.. I'm not paying for that.

Bye Sun, I'll really miss you :-(

Completely insecure (1)

edfardos (863920) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514402)

All you need is an 8-digit number to "claim" your support agreement! that's it! Just start making up random numbers if you need support for anything, or more importantly lists of customers, their locations, what they have. It's a marketing goldmine! What an epic failure. Does Oracle do business with the government? Thanks but no thanks. --edfardos

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34514558)

I don't care.
Under Aussie laws the systems are no longer suitable for purpose without free security patches and I'm asking Oracle for a refund on about $60,000 worth of hardware and they have no legal defence.

I wrote SunSolve (3, Insightful)

willsnow (1956660) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514644)

I personally wrote large portions of sunsolve - and deployed it world wide for Sun. It's a crying shame what Oracle has done to the support portal - even charging for device drivers for the Sun Hardware. There have been many great engineers that have worked on SunSolve over the years - and I can't begin to note them all. Rest in peace SunSolve, and as has been shown many times, the follow on products don't even approach your functionality.

The Sun is setting into irrelevance (1)

stupkid (16083) | more than 3 years ago | (#34514984)

I don't know about everyone else, but in the fortune 100 company I happen to work for they are moving all new projects to AIX and Linux. This has been going on for the last year. The sad part, for Sun/Oracle, is that it used to be a primarily Sun shop. Now all new projects are AIX and Linux and there is no interest in approving any Sun equipment. All the tech refresh projects we have are moving businesses to either AIX or Linux. This represents a fairly large revenue stream that they are losing. Seems to be a common trend from blogs/forums/etc. that I'm reading.

As opposed to what they're doing right now? (1)

whitroth (9367) | more than 3 years ago | (#34517312)

15 years ago, when I had hardware problems, Sun was on it. These days, Dell's on it, when it's a Dell server.

Sun: I've got a machine spewing ECC errors (as in, filling logs and mailboxes) today. The guy wants me to update the firmware. (this is several hours to get two emails, and the engineer's in Chile, and I'm in the US). I go to the link on SunSolve... and can't get in. If I have a contract number... no, my manager tells me that we don't have a contract, but it's on warranty.

No one at Sun/Oracle seems to be able or willing to solver this, and I'm over five hours into this joke. And when you call, even on an open tech support case, you always get someone nontechnical as the first line....

Larry, hire a few more support staff, and give them answers? Right now, if I had to make a recommendation for hardware, there's no way I'd recommend Oracle.

                    mark

I'm AC b/c I'm on the inside (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34525080)

former Sunnie, now Oracle tech support weenie here. Sunsolve will be missed but let's face it: it was a mess of impossibly old and difficult-to-find information. The search facility was wacky. You could literally do the same search on two different machines or browsers and get different results.

The My Oracle Support portal is going to be a big change. One problem that support has had over the past decade is continued attrition that was never replaced. THAT IS THE REASON support got so bad. Why? Fewer and fewer knowledgeable people handling more and more products of extreme complexity (think LDOMS and virtualization and that hairball known as Sun Ray Server). A dysfunctional CRM system that was never properly tailored for the business. Out of control entitlement: we had no idea what we sold to whom and if they even had support contracts. Support "partners" who were no help, but were supposed to know Unix. More clueless managers than you could shake a stick at. When there was enough bodies to cover for all this dysfunction, we did OK. Once staffing dropped to a particular level, all control was lost.

NOW every interaction, problem, phone call, email, conversation, action plan, resolution, etc. etc. will be recorded in some way to be analyzed later. Even before that point, customers will be asked more intelligent questions and for more useful output that will be tailored to the problem they are reporting when they open a ticket. Engineers will be required to document every resolution to every problem, with targets they will have to adhere to watched by their managers. Yes, it's going to be pretty crazy for a while, as the customers and engineers get used to the new system. Yes, it's harder to just pick up the phone and call someone, but use the system and you will get a call back. (Any good TSE would rather spend time analyzing the meaningful data for the properly explained issue you've handed him INSTEAD of holding your hand while you do some sysadmin task you should already know how to do!) Yes, the support portal uses Flash. Use that as justification to upgrade your model year 2005 computer. This is the tech industry and THINGS CHANGE!!!

But since most of you would rather just say "MEH!" to the best enterprise level Unix "on the planet" (as old Scott Mc used to say), then I guess we'll all end up as laid off ex-engineers. Since there are not as many "Sun partners" anymore, I guess we'll just lose all that good Solaris knowledge. Ironic, b/c now it seems that Oracle wants to invest in Sun technologies. They are hiring tech support people again (not in the US, but at least they are hiring. We figure they'll always need some US citizens onboard to handle the .gov sites that require that).

You folks that are abandoning Sun technologies for Linux or IBM or whatever just may be re-deploying Oracle Solaris 11 (or better) sooner than you think. Don't ever say "never". You could eat your words.

Re:I'm AC b/c I'm on the inside (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34526390)

I hear what you're saying but you need to listen to what your customers are saying, which is "you used to be good, now you're shit" - which for the most part is true. As a platinum customer I can't download the patches I want via FTP (who the fuck are you to tell me what's right? I am paying YOU) and I can't speak to someone who speaks English as their first language since you fucking cheaped out and outsourced all your shit to Eastern Europe or wherever. Fuck you, we'll build our own cheap hardware and run our own Linux.

I mean look at this thread, it has hardly generated any interest at all. That should tell you something.

Nothing personal man!

Harder to find things... (1)

theamarand (794542) | more than 3 years ago | (#34535626)

Reading about the underlying changes (terms and conditions) is a bit scary. Forget how annoying the new Oracle support site is - that's just your basic sub-par Flash interface that keeps the executives happy. Spend a little time investigating the Soylent Green underneath, and you'll find that things are rapidly becoming a ton more restrictive than they ever were with Sun.

Before, when working with Sun, a support contract entitled you to access to SunSolve and the majority of the information and updates. Sure, they started limiting access to end-of-life product updates like Solaris 8, but at least that's something you can plan for. They also had a limited subset of free materials which you could access (parts information), but you needed to have a support contract for other items (blown-up images, click-through links). Reasonable.

Now, with Oracle, if it's anything like the database support end of things, you get what you pay for. It looks like if you pay nothing, you get nothing: zero, zip, zilch. Without a valid support identifier or active contract number, the account you create won't even allow you to go to the front page of the support site. Wow!

Sun had a brand, a well-known brand, which Oracle is rapidly dismantling, and in doing so irritating a huge group of loyal customers. If the techie sentiments on this board are any indication, Oracle is going to have a really hard time keeping folks in the fold.

I realize there are benefits to using the Oracle database, but at what cost? Hopefully, enough people will choose open-source (free as in freedom and beer) database solutions to drive down the initial cost and maintenance costs of proprietary databases such as Oracle. Why use Oracle if you can use MySQL? And if you say "well, it doesn't do XYZ," you have to ask yourself "why not?" If enough companies and governments left Oracle to use an open-source option, there's no reason why the community couldn't create every single plug-in and specialized application that Oracle has - faster, cheaper, better and for sure better supported. A community of people coding because they love something is going to be far more robust and secure in the long run than a mercenary army dedicated exclusively to the almighty dollar. Just look at Microsoft versus Linux or BSD.

It's only a matter of time....

Re:Harder to find things... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34633432)

Heh, my company actually is finding it cheaper (they say...) to convert Oracle databases to MS SQL - don't ask me how that works since I think they have started drinking way too much M$ koolaid at the top as it is. Maybe just the least worst alternative for "enterprise class support" ...

Wow what a cluster F My Oracle Support is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34590370)

Hey Oracle listen up:

Flash sucks. What is the mater with Java? You couldn't create a bloated java application to do the same thing as the flash one?
What sucks more is that you spam me at my g-mail address with "Oracle university" stuff, but when I try to login with that ID and password I am 'unknown'. When I try to have you send me a new password to that g-mail address I am also unknown. When I register for an account, I need to re-fill in the same information on the flash page after I log in but I am stopped on the flash page because I don't have a CID or sun contract number. So I can't login to the my support sight to open a case about my account because I don't have a my support account because I don't have a CID. All of this to try and download the 'explorer' to collect information to review to try and support a system remotely. This reminds me of what IBM used to be like in 1991 just before they hemorrhaged billions (4) of dollars a quarter (+8) because no one would buy the over priced crap with the arrogant attitude they had. There is no way I can recommend buying Sun hardware or Solaris OS as a consultant (as ain independent or as an employee of one of the 'big 5') given this experience.

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...