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MS Hypes Win7 Tablets For CES — Again

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the deja-what-now dept.

Microsoft 188

jfruhlinger writes "About a year ago at this time, we were all hearing exciting news about Windows-based tablets that Microsoft would be unveiling at CES. They would transform the industry and strangle the iPad in its cradle! Well, now the hype machine is starting again, for the same products that never materialized last year. This time around, though, the market has changed so much so quickly that Microsoft's tablet bid isn't cutting edge; as Ryan Faas points out, it's desperate."

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Fool me once (4, Funny)

mosb1000 (710161) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553350)

It's like George Bush said. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. . .you can't fool me again.

Re:Fool me once (3, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553466)

I think we all agree, the past is over.
This is still a dangerous world.
It’s a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mental losses.

Rarely is the question asked
“Is our children learning?”
“Will the highways of the Internet become more few?”
“Do you have Blacks in Brazil?”
“Why dont’t the French have a word for ‘entrepreneur’?”

How many hands have I shaked?
They misunderestimate me.
I am a pitbull on the pant leg of opportunity.
I know that the human being and the fish can coexist.

Families is where our nation finds hope,
where our wings take dream.

Put food on your family!
Knock down the toll booth!
Make the economy gooder!
Vulcanize society!
Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher!

Re:Fool me once (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553868)

forwarded emails FTL

Re:Fool me once (1)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554216)

Snopes says those are all actual quotes from our dear ex-president. Idiots say the darndest things, don't they?

Re:Fool me once (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554460)

They sure do. Like the 57 states thing, that was fucking hilarious.

Re:Fool me once (3, Informative)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554526)

Hilarious, yes, but still a totally false equivalency. Barry is nowhere near as retarded as Bush. You got one quote. One. Those Bush quotes aren't even the tip of the iceberg. Dude was DUMB, man. Fucking stupid. Calling him retarded is an insult to the mentally challenged. There's a guy working down in the lobby of my building selling popcorn as part of a special needs program. He'd make a better president than Bush did.

Re:Fool me once (0)

mosb1000 (710161) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554858)

Just because someone isn't an eloquent speaker doesn't mean they're dumb. Most of us would look pretty stupid on television. Probably not as dumb as bush, but that doesn't mean he's stupid. Bush is a calculating politician who knew how to play on his strengths to win the office twice. That's a feat most (better spoken) politicians could never achieve. Even Obama probably won't be able to, and he's an excellent speaker.

Re:Fool me once (2)

saleenS281 (859657) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554426)

My memory may be failing me, but this quote actually stuck in my head for just how idiotic he truly was screwing up such an easy saying. I believe he said:

Fool me one... shame on, shame on me. Fool me twice, fool me can't get fooled again.

*sigh* Why the hype? (1)

del_diablo (1747634) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553364)

"IPAD KILLER! IPAD KILLER! IPAD KILLER!"
Because the iPad worked, everyone is screaming it, choking each other in their cradles, attempting to produce the next poor and horrible tablet.
If MS had used its 1 working shot, they should have done so instead of FAILING AGAIN!
http://www.techspot.com/news/36328-microsoft-unveils-dualscreen-tablet-concept.html [techspot.com]
Look at it! It is pure functional genious, and it won't come out, and it dies in its infancy stage.

Never viable (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553776)

The Courier was never viable, nor even a real product - it was an attempt to use the classic FUD cloud to head off the iPad. But if the vapor is too thin, anyone can see through it and that was true in this case.

Imagine the batter life and weight of a Windows 7 tablet with two screens. Imagine the hassel of a mechanism that would fold easily while also letting you hold it open cradled in a hand or two.

Courier was never more than a concept video, and not even a well-thought out example of that. It looks amazing in the same way riding a dragon through the sky seems awesome and amazing, because it's not going to happen in reality.

Re:Never viable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553860)

The Courier was never intended to be a product.

It was not vaporware.

It was not just a concept video.

It was, like the vast majority of hardware projects at MS, an incubation project designed to develop IP and reference hardware designs for licensing to 3rd parties.

Notice that Toshiba has a system out that uses various bits of that concept.

Re:Never viable (1)

del_diablo (1747634) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554376)

Yes, but that is besides the point.
If they had just bought up a piece of ARM, bought up some firm making batteries, and made that thing with roughly that dualscreen interface, it would have a chance of becoming something
Instead it is just another piece of vaporware :(

Re:*sigh* Why the hype? (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34555002)

That would have been expensive, had horrible battery life and possibly be too delicate. It would never had happened and won't be viable (imo of course) for a few years at the least.

Microsoft's relevance... (2, Interesting)

jcannonb (1665423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553372)

Microsoft's relevance is getting dimmer and dimmer by the day. 7-8 years ago, I ran Windows, I needed to know Windows Server and .NET dev tools for my job. I even enjoyed a WinMo Phone. Today, and for the past 5-6 years, the needs for my skills have changed: Linux Mac PHP MySQL I was asked a Windows Server authentication question today, and I couldn't even remember the answer it has been so long since I admin'd Windows of any kind. Windows right now is good for: Exchange Outlook if you don't have a Mac and need integration SQL Server .NET and other "enterprise" services to maintain what is there today. Microsoft would make more money if the ported all of their services over to *nix platforms, and sold licenses as a software company. Exchange, SQL Server, AD services, .NET development environments for *nix platforms would make them a lot more money, and make enterprise orgs happier, because then they could run *nix platform solely, with MS offered services.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

jcannonb (1665423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553400)

The Windows client by the way is best for DirectX games only now.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553428)

Cool anecdote bro. My experience is the exact opposite, so do they cancel out?

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (2)

Stregano (1285764) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553486)

You seem to forget about PC Gaming. Porting to *nix would suck. I love *nix and all, but lets face it, with how many distros are out there, the QA departments of game companies would have to be beefed up like crazy. Any respectable PC gamer has a Windows machine for gaming. Well, I guess Steam pushed out a few titles for Mac, but not that many. I have my *nix server setup, and then my gaming rig setup. No, WINE is not a substitute.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (2)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553702)

with how many distros are out there, the QA departments of game companies would have to be beefed up like crazy.

Which is why a company like Opera has no chance whatsoever of being able to distribute a browser in binary from for Linux. Oh, wait...

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

hrimhari (1241292) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554196)

Admirable, but a browser is still this far behind from today's game complexity that it would be like comparing Emacs to Halo.

Ok, ok, car analogy... hmmm a course bicycle to a Ferrari?

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554784)

Admirable, but a browser is still this far behind from today's game complexity that it would be like comparing Emacs to Halo.

Ok, ok, car analogy... hmmm a course bicycle to a Ferrari?

That is entirely incorrect. A browser makes heavy demands of its host operating system including audio and video. About the only thing browsers don't do much is 3D graphics. Backing away from the browser example, 3D graphics is highly compatible across Linux systems because it is entirely based on freedesktop/Mesa.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

BlueStraggler (765543) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554860)

Come now, Halo's not *that* complex.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34555084)

Why is it small developers like those who made World of Goo and Braid can port their games to all platforms but it's nearly impossible for big companies?

I'm sure it's not as easy as Windows but it's lazy developers and profit hungry publishers that stop games from showing up on Linux and nothing else.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553506)

So you're kinda asking for Microsoft to slowly become the 80s IBM of out time?

That could happen.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553512)

Too late, Windows instances are being funneled into VMware clusters at a high rate, at least in my data centers here in enterprise land. The population of Windows instances also land on some dedicated blade servers, but not many in the big picture. The future of Windows in the enterprise looks to be one of the many hosted OSes in the VMware framework. Being slightly more work to care for, they will eventually phase themselves out of the data center in the long-run, being relegated to the desktop, if at all. Don't mind me though, I'm from the *nix side of the house and tend to think in terms of doom and gloom for my Windows counterparts. :) Your mileage may vary.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553544)

I work with public agencies all the time and other than the largest municipalities, Windows is the name of the game and always will be for the foreseeable future. There will always be relevant business markets for MS/Windows, and that's not counting the need for it for legacy products.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553830)

Yeah, I guess if your aspirations are to make the best computing device for "large municipalities" then, sure, you can call that being relevant.

Re:Microsoft's relevance... (1)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554306)

Mac? And PHP?

Glad you're paying your bills with it, but that's pretty lame. Non-compiled server-side languages, yeeeuck!

If you don't have a Mac? More like 'If you don't NEED a mac' (For a Linux box? What's the point of paying that much more for the same intel hardware that you could get on any off-the-shelf windows rig for significantly less?)

WebOS? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553396)

Makes me wonder what happened to the rumored HP WebOS tablet.

Re:WebOS? (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553502)

March, supposedly. Article dated today:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/smb/mobile/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=228800597&subSection=News

Todd Bradley, the head of HP's Personal Systems Group, announced on August 20, "You'll see us with a Microsoft product in the near future, and a WebOS-based product in early 2011."

Re:WebOS? (1)

Stregano (1285764) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553516)

Some newer Palm devices run webOS now. Chances are that is what happened. They just put out Palm devices for the Palm name and called it good

Re:WebOS? (2)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553524)

It's being recalled due to a firmware backdoor password security problem!

Re:WebOS? (1)

soupforare (542403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553528)

Still slated for springtime 2011 release last I heard. I'm fairly excited about it, for all of Palm's faults, WebOS really was something.

UI Upgrade? (4, Insightful)

Stregano (1285764) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553408)

There are tablets out there right now that run W7. W7 is a horrible UI for a tablet as can be seen with the current stuff that is out. If they change their UI to make it more tablet friendly, then we will talk. Until then, hop on Google and check yourself, W7 is a fail on tablets with the current UI

Re:UI Upgrade? (4, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553706)

I've said this before. Windows and all applications written for it are designed for a WIMP interface, not a touchscreen. All UI implementation to be completely redesigned and rewritten for for a touchscreen, therefore there is little value in porting Windows to a tablet.

Re:UI Upgrade? (5, Interesting)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553872)

Someone mod parent up about WIMP !

As a game programmer, designer, and the UI work I've done, I've found the exact same thing. Right-Click. Nope. Tooltips. Also can't do those on a touchscreen. Vertical/Horizontal scroll bars? Functionally the user can "scroll" by dragging _anywhere_. The more I use iPhone apps, the more I am impressed with the set of controls, and the SDK Apple has provided. Just the screen lack of screen real estate forces you to consciously priority WHAT and HOW MUCH info you show to the user.

The Nintendo DS can use the IMP* metaphor because you have a touch pen. Finger touch-screen needs to use IM** metaphor.

WIMP = window, icon, menu, pointing device
*IMP = icon, menu, pointing device
**IM = icon, menu

Re:UI Upgrade? (0)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553806)

Microsoft is not a technology company. Microsoft is a Windows company. Until Microsoft realizes that is a mistake, they are doomed to keep trying to shoehorn Windows OS where it doesn't belong, or create "me too" products to leverage Windows OS (Zune). Even the damn Xbox was designed with Windows in mind.

Re:UI Upgrade? (2)

tgd (2822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553922)

It depends on what you want to use it for. I have a W7 tablet, and have been very happy with it. The core UI isn't designed for multitouch finger swiping like the iPad, but it works extremely well for writing on it, whiteboard sharing, etc. There are a lot of ideas for what makes a useful tablet. Apple's idea brought the fact that tablets exist to the forefront of the general public's mind, and shaped their ideas of what a tablet is, nevermind millions of them have been running Windows for a decade, just at price points too high for consumer use.

I think particularly the handwriting recognition is underappreciated in Windows 7.

Re:UI Upgrade? (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554374)

There are tablets out there right now that run W7. W7 is a horrible UI for a tablet as can be seen with the current stuff that is out.

Judging from the articles I've seen, what MS is showing isn't a traditional tablet, its a new twist on the "tablet convertible" style of notebook computer, or, looked at differently, a scaled-up slider phone. Its primarily designed for keyboard (plus, presumably, some kind of pointing device) use, with a new "layered interface" (whatever that means) mode that is used when the keyboard is retracted.

Given that they are saying similar size (but thicker) than an iPad, I think the slider idea is pretty horrible, but that's what they seem to be going with.

Re:UI Upgrade? (2)

nametaken (610866) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554392)

For those who don't know, they actually did this for the Microsoft Courier. I'm usually disinterested in Microsoft products. They're usually conservative, unimaginative knock-offs of other products in their space. But in that case, they nailed it. It was a device people looked at and thought, "this is something I really, really want."

Then they killed the project. Foot... meet bullet.

http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft%20courier [google.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQWc79TYcU [youtube.com]

Re:UI Upgrade? (1)

SadButTrue (848439) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554398)

Anyone have any theorycraft or info on why MS would choose to push win7 for tablets instead of WP7? It seems that the interface is much better suited as apple and, to some extent, google have shown.

I assume it just because it is so new that the tool chain isn't there yet.. or maybe apps? Or is it something deeper in your opinions?

Re:UI Upgrade? (2)

rtyhurst (460717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554504)

I for one look forward to the brilliant success of the Windows tablet, in an unbroken string of triumphs from DOS to the Windows phone!

After all they invented "innovation"...

They're so clever they can make their Windows 7 OS work in anything... even in computers!

Re:UI Upgrade? (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554600)

it could also be management turf wars. They have some decent programmers. MS Research does some pretty cool shit. From the comforts of my armchair, it's primarily a management problem. (That's also the opinion of a few buddies that have interviewed and worked there.)

Re:UI Upgrade? (2)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554738)

My laptop is a tablet. It's not Windows that's really the problem. It's the lack of Tablet centric apps.

I use ArtRage which is designed for a tablet and it works great. Most other apps though just assume you have a mouse. But as far as using windows is concerned it works fine.

Curious timing (1)

BearRanger (945122) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553446)

Interesting how this "leak" occurred the same day analysts at Goldman Sachs castigated Microsoft for not having a tablet strategy. The market is starting to awaken to Ballmer's utter lack of vision and it won't be long before Microsoft starts to pay for it. Well, more than they've already paid by having a stagnant stock price for the past 10 years.

Re:Curious timing (4, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553828)

Microsoft has had a tablet strategy for almost a decade. Unfortunately it's an absolute crap strategy that isn't going to catch on in the marketplace. Before you might have been able to argue that their vision was ahead of its time, but now that Apple has had a lot of success with the iPad and Samsung has been able to duplicate much of that success with an Android tablet, Microsoft has no excuse.

You can tell how much they missed the boat on this by looking at their new phone OS, or at least what they named it. I wouldn't be surprised to see them use it for future tablets and stop trying to put Windows 7 and its successors on tablet devices. The funny part is that they called it Windows Phone 7, which (at least to me) indicates that they had no thought at all of using it for tablet devices, even after watching Apple port their iOS to tablets.

It's pretty clear that they intent to pound their heads into the wall and continue pushing their failed strategy. It's starting to look sad.

Sounds like (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553448)

Sounds like an infomercial

Remember the win7 tablets you didn't see last year! they're back, and better than ever. More features than you never saw before! You won't see a better win7 notebook this year! You'll be lucky to get one of these working for you!

Re:Sounds like (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553570)

You....didnt actually read the article, did you?

Microsoft can still win (1)

wsxyz (543068) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553452)

Microsoft still has the chance to beat Apple to market with a pc/tablet hybrid that acts like a regular windows desktop computer when plugged into a docking station and morphs into a touch-based tablet when undocked. If they can solve the UI-switching problem, rewrite their big office apps to play along, and get to market before Apple does something similar, then they'll have a good chance of capturing a lot of the market.

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553538)

If they're smart they'd start the push for this kind of functionality in the Windows 7 phones, not the tablets. Let's face it, for what 90% of consumers do with their computer, a smartphone has the processing power for. Even mid range games are becoming playable on standard phone hardware, and the next generation of phones promises dual core with dedicated graphics. Add in a docking solution and the UI issues for things like document editing disappear. Hell, you could even make a tablet dock (basically just a big touchscreen) that accepts the phone and gives you more real estate when you're doing leisure activities.

Hold on a second... I need to go do a patent search.

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

SadButTrue (848439) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554010)

never ever ever do a patent search... it opens you up to treble damages from willful infringement.

Kind of a nasty and counter productive unintended consequence of current patent law.

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554510)

In this case you are wrong. He's been sitting there typing at his computer for three lines of a slashdot comment. He's already come up with an idea that could be patentable. There's no way he has done this by research, the only explanation is that he's a "non practicing entity" (aka a Patent Troll) patenting hand waving and waffle. In which case he doesn't make or sell anything, so there's no point in suing him. He can only win. Flee. Run to the hills. Don't look back.

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553628)

Because Microsoft Office Park runs great on low-power hardware, right?

Why do you suppose Microsoft is pushing their Office Live Web-based office suite?

Re:Microsoft can still win (1, Redundant)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553850)

You suffer from the same problem Microsoft does. Your basic assumption is that Microsoft is a WINDOWS company, not a Technology Company. I don't want a device so bloated it has two separate interfaces, I don't need more bloat from Microsoft. My Droid Phone has more power than a computer from 10 years ago, and does more with less than typical desktop does. It is limited in ways that I don't care about when I'm on the road, and I don't want the bloat of all the crap I have to run on my laptop just to be connected to the Corporate Servers, when I'm not connected.

So, what you're asking for is something I don't want. No thank you.

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

wsxyz (543068) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554132)

by Archangel Michael (180766) on Tuesday December 14, @05:55PM
You suffer from the same problem Microsoft does. Your basic assumption is that Microsoft is a WINDOWS company, not a Technology Company.

by Archangel Michael (180766) on Tuesday December 14, @05:51PM
Microsoft is not a technology company. Microsoft is a Windows company.

Say what?

Re:Microsoft can still win (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554528)

You need to go watch fight club.

Re:Microsoft can still win (4, Insightful)

hey! (33014) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554382)

They've done better than that. They've got laptops that convert into tablets with a twist of the screen. I've got one. I like it as a laptop, but I *never* use it as a tablet.

The problem is that it's all very good to say "UI-switching problem", as if that were a single, discrete problem that could be solved by something like enabling touch input. It's not.

The problem is with the "value proposition", which runs roughly like this: "Use the apps you've already invested in exactly the same as you always have, but on a *tablet*." On paper that sounds like genius, but unfortunately it's not a self-consistent idea. Tablet interaction is radically different than mouse and keyboard driven interaction, so if the apps don't behave radically differently, they're going to suck in tablet mode.

You can't fix this problem by imposing a shallow tablet interface on top of the old app (which Win 7 does with approximately as much success as is possible). The app's UI has to be redesigned from the ground up to give users a tablet experience, not a mouse/keyboard experience simulated on a tablet.

Re:Microsoft can still win (4, Interesting)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#34555092)

Microsoft still has the chance to beat Apple

I think this is the type of thinking that is why MS is behind Apple. Apple doesn't seem to give a damn about beating MS or Google or HP or Dell. Steve Jobs for years has said he doesn't care that Apple doesn't have a huge marketshare in computers. The fact that they make money and that they have loyal customers is their primary focus. Apple cares only about putting out products that they think are good products and will make them a lot of money. It just happens that their last series of consumer products starting with the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad have taken the market.

MS has always defined itself and its strategy on the market and competitors and not the goal of being the best. They have only wanted to beat everyone else. When they beat Netscape they let IE languish for years until Mozilla and Chrome started to eat their marketshare. They let Window Mobile stagnate until Apple and Google made them almost irrelevant.

Dear Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553454)

Make a GNU Linux distribution: MS Linux !!!

Cheers.

Yours In Miami,
Kilgore Trout, C.E.O.

Win7 (4, Insightful)

Dan East (318230) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553474)

There's nothing inherently wrong about running Win7 on a tablet. As long as the gui shell is optimized for the form factor and method of input, then it has a fighting chance. However, people will invariably want to run standard Windows applications on the device, and that is where the user experience will be miserable.
Apple really pulled a strategic coup with the iPad. First they built up an impressive array of modern applications totally designed around a multi-touch interface (via the iPhone), then they built a tablet that was fully compatible with that massive suite of applications.
MS has a massive application base, but there is no acceptable manner of utilizing those applications with a touch-only interface (and oh, has that been tried and tried). Couple that with Microsoft's heavy-handed treatment of developers of late (C# only for Windows Phone 7), and the tablet version of Win7 will never build up that critical mass base of applications it must have to survive.

Re:Win7 (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553720)

There's nothing inherently wrong about running Win7 on a tablet.

Yes there is. A touch screen is NOT the same as a mouse and keyboard.

Re:Win7 (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554946)

You're conflating the GUI layer (Aero) with the operating system (Win7). The OP mentioned a suitable gui shell would be required. Presumably, this wouldn't be Aero.

Re:Win7 (1)

sl0ppy (454532) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553758)

Couple that with Microsoft's heavy-handed treatment of developers of late (C# only for Windows Phone 7)

i love to demonize microsoft as much as the next guy, but ... C# is not the only development environment for WP7, there is also SilverLight, opening up development to a much broader developer audience.

not to mention that Android development tends to be Java based, and iOS development until very recently was ObjC only.

Re:Win7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554286)

C# is the primary environment for Silverlight.

Re:Win7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554650)

And Silverlight apps are developed in... C#.

Re:Win7 (2, Informative)

guruevi (827432) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553980)

The problem with Windows is the horrible (or just plain missing) UI guidelines and design. That is the main reason why you just can't transform Windows desktop applications to miniature ones, the developers don't have a uniform way of handling UI. The great thing about developing for either Qt, Java or Mac (and might I say, Gnome as well) is that the UI can be adapted fairly quickly for just about any layout/format. Even though Microsoft tried to change that (poorly) by pressing on MVC and cross-Windows languages with developers, they still required you to re-write the V-part and re-write it in a different way for every platform.

Re:Win7 (1)

kmoorman (873896) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554156)

"C# only for Windows Phone 7"

And Visual Basic 2010.

Re:Win7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554730)

There's nothing inherently wrong about running Win7 on a tablet.

As long as the gui shell is optimized for the form factor and method of input, then it has a fighting chance.

Yep, as long as standard Win7 HAPPENS to have optimizations that make it work better on tablets that didn't exist when it was developed it will work great.

Similarly, there's nothing inherently wrong with me buying 10 Ferraris, as long as my bank account is properly "optimized". It isn't, but that doesn't make the preceding statement false, right?

Re:Win7 (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554996)

First, that was a nice insightful post.
long long ago microsoft was in the same exact position when it was trying to make the jump from the non-mouse world to the WIMP world. Boy did that transition period suck. All sorts of kludge drivers to try to get mice to emulate key strokes to move a cursor like it was a mouse pointer. Different programs had different drivers or even different input modes (one frame might only take text input and the drapwing pane only mouse, or moving the mlouse over a text area might fill it up with control characters for left arrows, etc...) Even after they got the drivers sorted out the human interface still sucked. Cut and paste with the mouse was different than cut and paste with key-strokes. And some menus were only available from the mouse and some only from the menu itself. Different programs put different kinds of menus on different mouse buttons.

just complete suck..

But eventually by windows 95 it was all sorted out at the WIMP level (now the file system and multi tasking was another story). And MS ate everyone's lunch after that.

I suspect Win7 will win out because ChomeOS being cloud only is just too radical a jump for people who need local apps. they will stay in the windows ecosystem. eventually by win 9, microsoft will have all the bugs out.

Windows 7 tablet, or WP7-based tablet? (3, Interesting)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553480)

Big difference.

Scaling a PC OS to a tablet always seems to result in failure.

Scaling a good touch-oriented phone OS up to a tablet, however, seems to work well.

See, as an example, the success of the iPad (basically a giant iPhone) and the various Android tablets (pre-Honeycomb, basically giant Android phones, such as the Huawei S7 and the Galaxy Tab series mentioned in TFA).

Oh yeah - I love my Huawei S7 (Android-based tablet, pre-Honeycomb, running 2.1 and with a 2.2 Froyo upgrade in the pipeline). Android took the entry barriers to the tablet market and hit them with a nuke.

Re:Windows 7 tablet, or WP7-based tablet? (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553500)

I forgot to say - I don't consider WP7 to be a "good" touch-oriented OS (IMO it's a massive step backwards from WM6.5, so many of the features I liked were removed so I'm guaranteed to move to Android now), but WP7 has a far greater chance of producing a non-sucking tablet than Windows 7 does.

Re:Windows 7 tablet, or WP7-based tablet? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553888)

Android-based tablet, pre-Honeycomb, running 2.1 and with a 2.2 Froyo upgrade in the pipeline

I can just imagine Steve Jobs reading that comment, thinking about all the billions of people who don't understand a single word of it, and laughing maniacally all the way to the bank.

Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (5, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553482)

Why haven't MS developed a touch-based shell for Windows 7? They could sell it as Windows 7 Tablet Edition. Yay, they'd get a new product to sell, too!

I've used Windows 7 as a touch OS, and I can tell you it's no pleasant experience. You know the virtual keyboard that iOS and Android pops up as you give a text box focus? Yeah. Windows 7 doesn't support that. It has a virtual keyboard, but you can only click to open it manually. Click to open it. Every time you want to type. Oh, and the dpi setting support to make things easier to point and click at? Well, Windows applications don't use to have good dpi setting support. Their GUI's will break, or simply ignore the setting, and keep using small fonts. And what about window management? Clicking at window borders to resize them, to give room for... Wait a minute -- why do you have to window manage at all? That was taken out of iOS and Android, for a reason.

There are a dozen more reasons it'll make your skin crawl. It's an as poor OS for tablets, as Windows Mobile 6.5 is for mobile devices. It's as if Microsoft didn't learn! Why hasn't Ballmer learnt? Why is he so stubborn. It's his job to understand these things, and lead his company in the right direction! Windows 7 Tablet Edition should have been developed *along with Windows 7* itself! Because even back then, after Windows Vista, did visionaries in the tech industry see this as becoming huge in the future. But no -- MS seem to be willing to repeat their Windows Mobile mistake again. Trying to shoe-horn an OS design in a form factor and a human/computer interface it was never intended for.

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553744)

It's an as poor OS for tablets, as Windows Mobile 6.5 is for mobile devices

You misspelled "ass"

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553944)

Why haven't MS developed a touch-based shell for Windows 7?

Because Windows 7 wasn't designed for touch based screens, except as an after thought. That's why.

If Microsoft was smart, they'd rip out a whole new OS based on touch screen that wasn't WINDOWS anything. Just a kickass OS that was designed for touch screens. THEN they could bolt on Windows compatibility shell on top for a "desktop", perhaps something like WINE. Hell, adopting WINE would be such an awesome move by Microsoft at this point, I wonder why they haven't. WINE is such a great abstraction from the underlying OS that Microsoft should adopt it, for that one purpose only.

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554434)

If Microsoft was smart, they'd rip out a whole new OS based on touch screen that wasn't WINDOWS anything.

You underestimate how slow and inefficient Microsoft is. They have way too many program managers blocking development. They're barely able to made a phone OS which has less features than their own previous version.

Also, Wine is LGPL. Microsoft's internal policy prohibits coders even from reading GPL/LGPL code.

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (1, Interesting)

VGR (467274) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554578)

Why haven't MS developed a touch-based shell for Windows 7?

I'm convinced Microsoft hasn't done it for the simple reason that they aren't capable of doing it.

The root of this is Microsoft's business model for the past 15 to 20 years: Do things on the cheap and release the result as a major new product. Usually this means a trivial amount of additional development on an existing product which is then released as a brand new product. Regardless, the model is tiny costs, big revenue.

Whenever Microsoft has attempted to create something from scratch, the result has been failure. I don't want to bother trying to list them all, but Vista is an obvious and fairly recent example.

I don't think they have the ability to create any product from the ground up. Most of their products have been acquisitions. I even remember an interview a while back in which a Microsoft exec used the phrase "innovation through acquisition" ... which a Google search shows has since become a common expression.

Yes, yes, I know there are a lot of intelligent people working there. But the ability to solve riddles in interviews isn't a replacement for knowledge about streamlined architecture or user interface design. Those intelligent people could become masters of those things, but I don't think Microsoft's culture encourages that.

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554722)

Ballmer is a sales guy. I he's gotten something to sell you, then what he has is the best to sell.

Re:Just one problem: Windows 7 is no touch OS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554926)

No one learns anything these days. Windows 7 lacks/limits these things intentionally. A whole new branch of m$ OS ala win 8 and more $$$ sucked in later will ensure it's continuational life spanned strategies.

I think that MS WILL come out with something soon (1)

theaceoffire (1053556) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553496)

With more and more Android Tablets being scheduled for release next year (At lower and lower price points thanks to lower *nix hardware needs) I feel we will see SOMETHING from MS this year.

Mind you, they will likely have xp or a stripped version of win 7 since the hardware will have to be cut down to compete with the bare min specifications the opponents will have.

^_^ I envision tablet PC's filling a gap between laptops and phones/book readers. Dirt cheap, multiple purpose, used the way netbooks were meant to be used.

Not sure high end tablets will take off though... I think if the hardware is good laptops with reversible screens are a better idea.

Re:I think that MS WILL come out with something so (1)

polar red (215081) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553696)

At lower and lower price points thanks to lower *nix hardware needs

I'm seeing €150 androids in papers already, how is ms going to compete with that ?

Re:I think that MS WILL come out with something so (3, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553810)

The real problem will be expectations RE: 3rd party applications. "Android" succeeds, in part, on very non-PC-like hardware because it promises nothing about support for historical linux applications(plus, the only historical applications tend to either be server stuff, that you wouldn't run on a tablet except as a stunt, or geek stuff that geeks are welcome to try to get working if they want to).

Windows, on the other hand, has a huge amount of well known legacy applications, and when a product is sold as "Windows" people expect that it, and the disk they just got at best buy, will work on it. Trouble is, the vast majority of those 3rd party applications will suck without a proper mouse and keyboard. Not much MS can do about that.

There isn't anything much wrong with the NT kernel(I'm sure hardcore geeks and purists could pick some nits; but the same could be said of linux.), nor does MS have no ability to design a new touchable shell; but making 3rd party stuff not just tear you out of that shell and poke you in the eye with how much they suck would be somewhere between heroic and impossible.

This, I suspect, is why Apple, with their iPhone, Google(de facto, they don't actually stop you) with Android, and MS with Windows Phone 7, enacted a "no legacy" policy.

Fools all! (1)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553572)

Don't they know that 2011 is the year of Linux in the Desktop?

Re:Fools all! (1)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554354)

For a few more weeks, then it'll be 2012 is the year of Linux on the Desktop. // Free as in "Free Beer, Tomorrow"

You'd better hope Win 7 for tablets does well (0)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553588)

It's increasingly looking like Android is fast cornering the vast majority of the tablet market (and by tablet, I mean regular tablet, e-book readers and anything that doesn't have a keyboard and mouse, or an intel CPU).

Frankly, I prefer an old, well-known, slowly dying monopoly like Microsoft than the fast, aggressive, secretive, personal-data-hungry and quite frankly worrying Google monopoly.

Re:You'd better hope Win 7 for tablets does well (4, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553854)

While I don't like Google any more than you do, I'm less worried about Android. Only a subset of Android devices are tied to Google in any useful way. Since Android is available as a largely apache licenced middleware stack for the GPLed kernel(plus whatever proprietary apps and drivers the vendor feels like shipping), assorted "Android" devices have sprung up like mushrooms that are about as connected to Google as a Gentoo box is to Linus Torvalds. By contrast, every box of Windows sold is money right into Redomond's coffers and, as of now, isn't shy about phoning home.

Re:You'd better hope Win 7 for tablets does well (2)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554432)

It's increasingly looking like Android is fast cornering the vast majority of the tablet market (and by tablet, I mean regular tablet, e-book readers and anything that doesn't have a keyboard and mouse, or an intel CPU).

Frankly, I prefer an old, well-known, slowly dying monopoly like Microsoft than the fast, aggressive, secretive, personal-data-hungry and quite frankly worrying Google monopoly.

Android is owned by the Open Handset Alliance, not Google. Google only owned it long enough to get people signed up to the OHA and transfer ownership to them.

(The fact that wireless carriers, hardware manufacturers, software and online services firms all have a stake in Android is probably part of the reason for its success.)

Re:You'd better hope Win 7 for tablets does well (2)

rtyhurst (460717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554788)

Well who doesn't "prefer an old, well-known, slowly dying monopoly like Microsoft"?

Given a choice, I mean.

Those Mozilla and Android upstarts are just muddying the waters, right?

Yet another Apple killer from Redmond .. Yawn (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553596)

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me over and over and I'll just blame someone.

Like so many of Microsoft's products it'll probably be "Pretty good", but rooted in the monolithic CYA culture at Microsoft which can't escape the extreme luck, by which Microsoft's products were selected to be industry standard by business, just because, there will still be some significant element of "They Just Don't Get It" that will hold it back and it will be quietly consigned to a dark corner with other "Killer" things from Microsoft over the years.

Perhaps they should try something different, perhaps a card trading game or pogs or collectible little plastic figurines...

I might sound like a snide, sarcastic git, but their track record isn't very impressive, even when they decide to lose $$,$$$,$$$,$$$. for a few years, pushing it.

Like it or not, Microsoft has become Brand X.

Re:Yet another Apple killer from Redmond .. Yawn (2)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553794)

I don't know... through sheer persistence, the Xbox has finally become a decent console. Microsoft's biggest problem is its lack of focus. Its marketing is purely reactive, always jumping on "the next big thing" when somebody else demonstrates they can make money doing it, then abandoning the effort a year later when something new comes along. On the plus side, for a software company, Microsoft actually does a decent job of producing hardware... the Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard are fairly reliable.

Re:Yet another Apple killer from Redmond .. Yawn (2)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553998)

I don't know... through sheer persistence, the Xbox has finally become a decent console.

But it's still lost them billions of dollars, its profitability is debatable and the next generation console will cost them billions more. Microsoft live and die on Windows and Office, nothing else really makes them any significant amounts of money.

I do agree about the Microsoft mouse though, probably the best thing Microsoft have ever produced. But, if I remember correctly, isn't it just some product they bought in and re-labelled?

Re:Yet another Apple killer from Redmond .. Yawn (3, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554780)

Microsoft live and die on Windows and Office, nothing else really makes them any significant amounts of money.

Probably why they're willing to throw a lot of money to expand into something else. Their stranglehold of the PC and Office market may last for several more decades, but they realize that they've already saturated both markets and there isn't much room for growth in either. They're trying to find the next thing that will make them significant amounts of money so they can live and die on X, Y, and Z instead of just X and Y. It's a little like how Apple lived on died by the Mac. Then the Mac and the iPod. Then the Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone. Now the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPod. More legs to stand on.

But, if I remember correctly, isn't it just some product they bought in and re-labelled?

You're thinking about DOS. Ba-zing!

Re:Yet another Apple killer from Redmond .. Yawn (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554172)

The worst thing about succeeding with a game console is that the customers are notoriously disloyal.

The moment a cooler must-have game comes out on another platform, they'll ditch the XBox.

Smartphone Review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553626)

Check out http://smartphone-review.net for the latest on Win7 Tablets and CES news!

Presenting the Slashdot tablet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34553692)

Comes with First Post, Goatse and Kdawson apps included. Order now and get a free -1, troll t-shirt.

Powered by gnu/tablet/HURD.

Worthless article (1)

PatPending (953482) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553704)

TFA is worthless. Just a rehash, nothing new. It's so lacking in substance it has to encourage its readers to supply content by ending TFA like this:

What's your take? Can Microsoft make real news in a Windows 7 tablet presentation? Is Windows 7 likely to be a dominant force in the tablet market during 2011? Let us know in the comments.

Re:Worthless article (1)

theurge14 (820596) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554256)

TFA is worthless. Just a rehash, nothing new. It's so lacking in substance it has to encourage its readers to supply content by ending TFA like this:

"Lacking in substance."

Isn't that the point, considering the topic of the article?

Back to old communication technology (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 3 years ago | (#34553710)

MS tribe keeps communicating with vapor signals.

Re:Back to old communication technology (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#34555118)

MS tribe keeps communicating with vapor signals.

I've got a "vapor signal" for them. :-P

Remember "Linux on the desktop"? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34554030)

Remember that piece of Fucked Up Disinformation from decades ago? Of course you don't, don't want to, that is. Because you Linux fanbois can't ever apply anything un-hypocritically to yourselves.

Microsoft is going from (0)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#34554688)

being like a quirky uncle to being a creepy uncle.

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