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PS3 Jailbreak Now Legal In Spain

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the setting-a-precedent dept.

PlayStation (Games) 113

deek writes "Spanish gamer site NicaGamerz.com have reported that it's now legal to sell the PS3 Jailbreak modchip in Spain (Google translation of Spanish original). According to the article, one reason for the legal ruling is because Sony removed the ability to run GNU/Linux on the console. One can only wonder if Sony will soon rush out a firmware update that will re-enable the OtherOS feature, and appeal the court decision. Oh the irony of that thought. The legal ruling was made on the 13th December (Google translation). There are only 5 days to appeal, starting from that date."

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Its a shame (3, Insightful)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573332)

That it was ever illegal in the first place. That the supposedly democratically elected government would ever support the notion of a company retaining control of and restricting a device that they don't own anymore.

Re:Its a shame (5, Informative)

joaosantos (1519241) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573508)

The court ruled that it was already legal, what happened was that sony had asked the court to suspend the sales of the modchip till the legality was decided by the court.

Re:Its a shame (0)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573906)

How the fuck did Sony think they have the "right" to ask for a suspension of sale until "the legality is decided"? It's like me asking for the PS3 not being sold until courts decided whether it's legal to sell the PS3 altogether.

Re:Its a shame (2)

joaosantos (1519241) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574028)

In Spain (and in many other countries) there is a legal instrument called preventive measures, that, in some cases, you can use to prevent an activity that you think is illegal till the court gives a ruling on the matter.

Re:Its a shame (3, Informative)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574172)

Usually, this isn't used as anything but a bludgeon to try to run your opponent out of money or force them to lay all their staff off and pray they can still hire back enough of the talent to resume production/innovation/sales on finalization of the court case.

You can "win" by convincing a dumbass judge to give you "preventative measures" in the US, dragging the court case out for 3-5 years on frivolous motions and "new requests for discovery", and waiting till the small company you're abusing defaults lack of funds even if, in a society where judges actually had two brain cells to rub together, you should have been laughed out of court on summary judgement in the first 48 hours of the case.

Re:Its a shame (1)

joaosantos (1519241) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574296)

Most of the cases I know (mainly in Portuguese cases) the preventive measures are used against the government or in inheritance cases, and usually they only delay things a couple of months, and most of them are reject outright. But I think (IANAL) that's because in Portugal you are only allowed to request a preventive measure if you can prove that the other person's/entity's actions would cause some permanent damage to you.

Irreparable harm (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574414)

in Portugal you are only allowed to request a preventive measure if you can prove that the other person's/entity's actions would cause some permanent damage to you.

The US has its counterpart to preventive measures [wikipedia.org] , but its courts have expanded what they consider irreparable harm [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Its a shame (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574300)

And in truly civilized countries such a strategy can backfire badly because if the court decides you just attempted to stall the competition they can sue the pants off you and get them.

Don't try that here. A friend of mine was once the target of such a "strategy". He said it's the best that could've happened to his company. Essentially, his competitor saved him.

Re:Its a shame (0)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574816)

The judges know what they are doing.

Remember a Judge WAS a lawyer... and lawyers know who rubs their backs.

Re:Its a shame (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574094)

They have the right to ask for anything they want. It doesn't mean they'll get it.

Re:Its a shame (1)

Thinboy00 (1190815) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574828)

Sony has lots of lawyers and you don't. If you asked to suspend sales of the PS3 until "the legality is decided", Sony would sue you for damages.

Re:Its a shame (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576660)

Well, rest assured I will not ask to suspend the sales. A company will. Gimme a sec to found it.... ok, done.

If Sony sues, well, I guess said company will go bankrupt. After paying the court fees, I guess what's left for damages will probably not amount to much.

Re:Its a shame (2)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574896)

uh, because in a lot of legal stuff when it's not 100% certain they get people to hold off in the meantime until the decision is made?

It's called "a sound legal decision", even if you and I and most of the world know that modchipping isn't illegal. The idea is to prevent more harm in the possibility that something could be bad.

Meanwhile, the catch is that the legal system is slow as shit so it puts things in limbo for a long time. Not unlike how don't ask don't tell has been for what, 10 years?

Other possibility (1, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573334)

Sony will only reenable the feature for people in Spain, and then try to sue anyone who buys Spanish PS3s for use in other countries.

Re:Other possibility (1)

polyp2000 (444682) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573426)

Does the Jailbreak even bring back the linux OtherOS option yet though?

Re:Other possibility (4, Informative)

EdZ (755139) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573634)

OtherOS has not yet been reenabled, but linux is running (over a network, not from the internal HDD) in GameOS mode, which allows access to all the Cell's SPUs and the RSX. It also runs on both the old style 'fat' PS3 and the new slim PS3.

Re:Other possibility (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34573682)

Does the Jailbreak even bring back the linux OtherOS option yet though?

Isn't it kind of interesting how this whole thing was supposedly about re-enabling the OtherOS feature. And yet the hackers still haven't managed that, but they have managed to get pirated games running. Meanwhile, we still have people here saying that it's all about getting OtherOS back. Funny how that works...

Re:Other possibility (0)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573800)

Just as interesting as how all these hacks started occurring after sony removed a feature that advertised.

I see this is tit for tat.

Re-enabling the "other os" feature should be low on this list. People should not have to hack their machines to get a promised feature back. The responsibly for that rests with sony.

Re:Other possibility (3, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573936)

Re-enabling the "other os" feature should be low on this list.

Personally I think it's the only thing that should be on the list, otherwise it just legitimises Sony's claims that they did it to stop piracy. I don't want people pirating games, and I really don't want to be playing against cheaters. I did however like that I could run Linux on my PS3 if I wanted. I tried it when it first came out and it sucked, and when I started hearing that it was much improved in the latest versions, that's around the time they removed the feature. I wasn't impressed. I already have Linux on my netbook though, so overall it doesn't matter to me too much.

Re:Other possibility (0)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574140)

Personally I think it's the only thing that should be on the list, otherwise it just legitimises Sony's claims that they did it to stop piracy.

The hacks came after what sony removed the other os feature. If the hack only re-enables the other os feature, then sony's actions cost them nothing and gains them the ability to void out the warranty for anyone that re-enables this feature.

Re:Other possibility (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574458)

And the removal of the OtherOS came after that one guy (forgot his name) used OtherOS to try and hack into the GameOS.

Re:Other possibility (4, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574978)

GeoHot. And then he gave up with actually enabling it again, with a total net result of.. losing Other OS. What a douche.

Re:Other possibility (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576168)

GeoHot.
And he never actually hacked anything.
And none of the hackers have actually hacked anything with regards to the PS3.

They simply stole a Sony USB dongle that lets you boot a PS3 into a debug/restore/etc. mode. Even the initial tool that lets you install to and run from the internal HDD was written by Sony.

From there, Sony released new firmwares and dev kits, and then the cat and mouse game of "find the key, hide the key" began.

The only work done on the PS3 scene so far has been rudimentary tweaks to the "backup" program, and some token "run Linux again!...kinda...over the network..." shit.

We haven't seen work or enthusiasm anywhere near the scale the 360 or Wii have had.

Re:Other possibility (0)

X.25 (255792) | more than 3 years ago | (#34577046)

GeoHot.
And he never actually hacked anything.
And none of the hackers have actually hacked anything with regards to the PS3.

They simply stole a Sony USB dongle that lets you boot a PS3 into a debug/restore/etc. mode. Even the initial tool that lets you install to and run from the internal HDD was written by Sony.

From there, Sony released new firmwares and dev kits, and then the cat and mouse game of "find the key, hide the key" began.

Don't you wish to read a little bit about a topic, and educate yourself, before you open your mouth and make yourself look like a complete drooling retard?

None of the things you wrote are correct. I mean, you could have gotten at least 1 of them right, but seems it was too hard.

Sony wrote original backup manager? That's my favourite one.

Holy fuck, you are so dumb...

Re:Other possibility (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580722)

Everything I said is 100% correct.
The original dongle was stolen.
The original backup manager is in the SDK.
GeoHot achieved nothing other than strobing some ram and editing a couple of text files that affect only the display of a couple of UI dialogs.

Re:Other possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34581138)

Dude no. You're wrong on all accounts. The jailbreak isn't a jig, isn't based on jig knowledge etc. The jailbreak is likely based on a hole found using Geohot's hack though.

Re:Other possibility (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580796)

Speak for yourself. GeoHot never hacked anything, he took tricks other people had used with practically no modicum of success (like *MY* USB trace overcurrent trick, etc.) and claimed it to be a working hack, which in itself was BULLSHIT.

You're the fucking dumb one, here.

Re:Other possibility (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#34583188)

"And none of the hackers have actually hacked anything with regards to the PS3."

INCORRECT

The jailbreak is a bona-fide hack. It uses the USB ID of the Sony jig, but it then busts the USB driver stack and overwrites some kernel memory. This is a real exploit and not just a service mode device.

Most of the devices can now emulate a service-mode jig as well, but that only gets you the ability to downgrade software. The original hack is just that, a hack.

And the work on the PS3 is progressing, though slowly. A FOSS SDK is in the works and can now do some stuff, linux is there (though the main guy doing that seems to have disappeared) folks are working on customising the firmware to enable extra/debug features, just in the last few days another user has started figuring out a perma-break (i.e. dongle free) solution...

The 'scene' is young but there are people doing stuff, it's just that (unfortunately) Sony did quite a good job with things like firmware signing.

Re:Other possibility (1)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574324)

Oh?

I like the idea of something far better than Other OS, because "Other OS" was fucking crippleware that couldn't access half the system's power.

I like the idea of launching a real, non-crippled media player that can natively understand the MKV format from within the XMB.

I like the idea of launching freeware games, and having people able to develop/port freeware games for either the XMB or Linux options on the console.

I like the idea of launching options that don't require me to use the DVD or Blu-ray drive as a fucking 5 1'4" dongle just to play a game from the hard drive, thus saving wear and tear on the discs.

I like the idea of a system (say, FTP access) that will actually let me archive savegames off of my PS3's hard drive before I upgrade to a larger hard drive (PS3's current one doesn't work properly if you stick in a different size drive), so that I don't lose data. I like something that will let me do this even when the save files are fucking "copy protected" by bullshit asshatted designers like the ones who created NFS:Carbon.

Re:Other possibility (2)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575156)

I agree about copy protection on game saves. I own assassins creed 2 the save games are copy protected and I have to ask why?

With call of duty if you move a save from one account to another you lose the ability to earn trophies. Since game companies can invoke measures like this to stop people skipping things why do we need copy protection on save games?

Last year myself and my Dad both got Uncharted 2 for Christmas, we took it in turns playing the game on one machine. When we finished I took my save home and replayed the game. This year both of us want Assassins Creed 2 : Brotherhood. I won't play it until I get home because there is no point playing for all that time and then having to go back to the beginning.

I don't want pirated games, I care nothing for the "Other OS" feature. Giving me the ability to move all my saves onto a USB stick should be top priority. That an firing the Sony Executive who thought copy protecting game saves was a good idea.

Re:Other possibility (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34577744)

Save games that will only run on the console they were created on is likely to mitigate the issue that occurred on the original XBox. That is, a specially corrupted save file would cause a buffer overflow and bypass the protection measures of the console. If you can't pass around a pre-corrupted save, then exploits like this can't spread (as easily).

Re:Other possibility (2)

tao (10867) | more than 3 years ago | (#34581318)

An interesting theory, but most likely incorrect. The reason? Not all save games are copy protected; the developers can choose for themselves whether or not the saves are copy protected. If Sony were afraid that buffer overflows in save games could be used for exploits, they would most probably have enforced copy protection on all save games.

Re:Other possibility (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575356)

The PS3's music interface is very weak I'll give you that. The crippleware on the Linux port was annoying, but understandable. I though it was pretty admirable that it was in there in the first place, it let people tinker with the Cell without voiding their warranty. Worked fine for scientific apps, just not games.

Freeware/homebrew games? Sure, Sony could do that, but then the actual console would cost up to twice what it does now to be able to make a profit. Then nobody would buy it, and it would flop badly. They were selling the consoles at a loss because they knew they could make money on the games. Sure you'd probably buy some full priced games too, but I think what they've been doing on PSN is pretty decent. There are plenty of good little games up there pretty cheaply, and original PS1 games very cheaply too (so cheap that I bought them again just so that I don't have to use the disc as you say).

Wear and tear on discs.. not really an issue if you look after them properly. I'd be more worried about the actual drive. My flatmate already had his fail, and I've had issues with drives on PS1 and PS2 as well. Of course any optical drive screws up after a while, but the Sony ones seem particularly bad.

You can buy some games direct on PSN too so you won't need the discs for that. But while there are some users that don't have an internet connection in the world, I don't see them letting people play games without the discs. Otherwise anyone who never plays online could just copy the game to their machine and then give the game to their friend who does the same thing, rinse and repeat.

Now, maybe you don't agree with copyright in general, but it's a separate issue. I don't agree with DRM where it's so restrictive that it stops you from enjoying your own games in valid use, but I find the idea that people pay for their own copies of a game to be perfectly acceptable, and putting in the disc is the only way that doesn't get too much in the way. Otherwise everyone would have to authorise each game online when they buy it, and type in a validation code. People hate that. I hate that. I don't like putting in discs either (I used to just NoCD crack my games on PC), but it's better than that.

Completely agree about the copy protected saves, it's moronic. GT5 corrupted my save game recently after I put a lot of work into golding something like 54/60 of the license tests. I now have to back up the whole system regularly because it won't let me just copy the save game itself (I suppose probably because so many people distributed a fully unlocked save of GT5 Prologue). I'm not even sure it'll restore that save game to a different PS3 if the whole console got fried (which my last one did a couple of months ago). There's no reason to copy protect saves. If some people want to skip 95% of a game's content, let them. It's their own money they're wasting, and their gaming skills will stay poor forever.

Re:Other possibility (1)

fotbr (855184) | more than 3 years ago | (#34578518)

If some people want to skip 95% of a game's content, let them. It's their own money they're wasting, and their gaming skills will stay poor forever.

Some of us game to relax, and don't want frustration of having to put up with much frustration simply to unlock cars and/or tracks, and don't give a damn about our "gaming skills", whatever those are.

I "played" through Forza 2 by doing the "hire a driver" thing and proceeding to do something else while the game played itself. Once everything was unlocked, and I could just goof around with whatever car I wanted, on whatever track I wanted, then I enjoyed the game.

Keeping other cars and tracks locked up because I'm not good enough doesn't make the game more fun; on the contrary, it makes it more work, and less fun. Why game designers stick with that retarded setup, I'll never understand.

Re:Other possibility (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34582856)

Gaming skills are the skills you use to do stuff like get trophies without cheating by using someone else's save. I can understand wanting to avoid the grinding in a few games, like GT5 Prologue which had only a couple of tracks I think. With the actual GT5 it would be pretty sad for people to not just enjoy the game and work their way up. If they can't win races with the slower cars, there's no way they will be able to control the more powerful ones properly.

I love that setup - combined with the ability to upgrade your car, it's what makes Gran Turismo so fun and rewarding. In games where everything is unlocked from the beginning, you get a choice overload and end up not really appreciating any one car because you are so busy trying them all out kind of thing.

I like that I get rewarded with awesome cars for completing the license tests with all golds etc. For someone who hasn't put the time and effort in to learning how to race, to be driving around in the "GT Academy" version of the GTR V Spec would be pretty sad. There are plenty of cheap and fast cars to be found in the game if you actually know anything about cars, and it's easy to kick ass just by buying better tyres than the opposition, if that's your thing.

Re:Other possibility (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 3 years ago | (#34577588)

I like the idea of launching a real, non-crippled media player that can natively understand the MKV format from within the XMB.

Only supporting the MKV format just isn't good enough. MKV does not have any type of standard codecs defined, it's simply a general purpose container. You can put plenty of things inside there that a PS3 just plain won't play. Sony needs to bring along versatile codec support into the PS3 so you can play a large variety of videos currently being placed into MKV. Until I don't need any trans-coding to support playback the PS3 remains a less than ideal solution for a media player. I'm considering either getting a Popcorn Hour unit or building a HTPC, because it's way too much of a hassle to get the PS3 into the loop, especially in the viewing of HD content.

Same thing for MP4 actually, it works if you have everything lined up perfectly and use the lowest common denominator of some encoding, but other than that MP4 is basically just as much of a disaster on the PS3.

Re:Other possibility (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580162)

What? the PS3 supports the higher quality MP4/h.264 settings, high profile, not baseline. The problem is, most of the h.264 out there is encoded for the Apple devices which don't support that. For example the PSP supports CABAC but the iPod devices don't, the PSP is also a Main Profile device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC_products_and_implementations [wikipedia.org] .

for the PS3, use High Profile level 4.1

Re:Other possibility (2)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#34581390)

I would be nice if you could buy an unsubsidized version - one that could legitimately have all those abilities because it wouldn't rely on post-purchase sales of software/media to pay for the console. Sure it would be considerably more costly but it would be nice to have the option.

Re:Other possibility (1)

bfree (113420) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574596)

I tried it when it first came out and it sucked, and when I started hearing that it was much improved in the latest versions, that's around the time they removed the feature.

Makes you wonder if it was the security of the game development licensing model which they were protecting rather then attempts to stop copyright infringement on licensed games. Around the time of the Sony Fools day announcement Gallium3D only supported a handful of environments and one of them was the cell, though I never ran it myself as the xserver with relatively trivial video acceleration from the spu's was enough for me. My PS3 has been quite idle since they removed OtherOS as they cut off my interest in the platform, including my interest in buying any games.

What really annoyed me was the fact that after the Slim had OtherOS removed, the main Sony PS3 Linux developer publically released the statement from SCE management [ozlabs.org] including:

Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

A couple of days over a month later it was removed. One of these days I'll get around to trying the new Linux bootloader though, that or I'll find a SCE management head to cave in with it.

Re:Other possibility (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575410)

Yeah. After the original guy who designed the PS3 was kicked out, things got ugly. I'm sure that guy who was working on Other OS is just as pissed as the rest of us, if not more..

Re:Other possibility (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#34581358)

Personally I think it's the only thing that should be on the list, otherwise it just legitimises Sony's claims that they did it to stop piracy.

I agree with everything else you said but im not sure this is right, the piracy situation only happened at the time of the otheros removal - perhaps it was just coincidence but it does seem like an eye-for-an-eye. If Sony wants right done by them - with a banning of modchips - then they need to do right by the consumer and give them back the feature they paid for, they can't have it both ways.

Re:Other possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34579092)

Jackie should be modded down for criticizing sony and for having a girls name

Re:Other possibility (0)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573978)

Pot, meet kettle...

So you're saying it's ok for Sony to use legalese bull to remove features that were part of the bundle they sold without giving any good reason, it's ok for them to essentially retain ownership of something I buy, but it's not ok if I use the same legalese bull to fight back?

Here's a cell, call someone who gives a fuck.

Re:Other possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34574252)

For me ,, it is ... Im happy to buy games - have a good library infact ... I havent needed to run jailbreak as I sometimes want to use the Linux option. Unfortunately as a result of this i cannot access the online store etc.

Sony Screwed up big time by removing the feature as the side-effect of their actions is that the console got hacked with a vengance.

Re:Other possibility (0)

X.25 (255792) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576712)

Isn't it kind of interesting how this whole thing was supposedly about re-enabling the OtherOS feature. And yet the hackers still haven't managed that, but they have managed to get pirated games running. Meanwhile, we still have people here saying that it's all about getting OtherOS back. Funny how that works...

And when did you decide for everyone that "this whole thing was supposedly about re-enabling the OtherOS", please?

It was to get back functionality taken away with removal of OtherOS. Which includes access to LV2/LV1.

We got it back v0v

Re:Other possibility (1)

stms (1132653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573896)

Yes [ps3-hacks.com]

Re:Other possibility (3, Informative)

slinches (1540051) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575440)

Does the Jailbreak even bring back the linux OtherOS option yet though?

Yes, it does. There are two ways so far.

AsbestOS - needs to store the data on a network drive (for now) but has full access to the hardware including the RSX GPU

Downgrade - If you have a PS3 that originally had Other OS, you can downgrade to version 3.15 which was the last to have the Other OS option.

Re:Other possibility (2)

joaosantos (1519241) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573552)

I would like to see them try to it, the European court almost always takes both the consumer and the pro free movement of goods side, so Sony would be screwed in that scenario.

Re:Other possibility (1)

staticneuron (975073) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573730)

I doubt Sony will re-enable anything. Chances are they could simply pull the PS3 from market. People own the hardware but not the IP. The idea that you can assert ownership just because your allowed to use it is something that doesn't fly in many other market segments, I am not sure why people think that Software must reside in a realm of its own.

Re:Other possibility (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573932)

People own the device and that includes _that copy_ of the software, yes. I don't see why they shouldn't. And PSJailbreak isn't distributing any of Sony's IP.

Re:Other possibility (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574032)

They could. Spain is quite a large market though - almost 50 million people - and there is absolutely nothing to prevent Spanish retailers from importing from Portugal or France (or any other EU country).

Re:Other possibility (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574474)

I don't think Spain is a large market as far as video game consoles are concerned.

Re:Other possibility (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575686)

Hard to say, but since it's mentioned in this report [gamasutra.com] alongside Britain, France and Germany, I suspect it's a significant player.

Re:Other possibility (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574996)

"Pull out of the market" seems to be the standard /. expected response whenever a company doesn't get its own way in court.

I don't think I've ever actually seen a company do that, though. Well, not unless the result of the court order was essentially to shut down every avenue of business for them, and then the typical net result is for the company to close down altogether (cf. Lik-Sang, Psystar). It doesn't make any sense - you'd be turning turning a potential (relatively small) loss into a guaranteed huge loss. Far more sensible to suck it up, appeal or figure a way around the court order.

Re:Other possibility (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34578108)

Spain is a 3rd world shithole where people will not pay for anything unless they absolutely have to, so the amount if piracy is abysmal. Ditto for people who evade taxes and whatnot. Can't wait until those idiots get kicked out of the Eurozone.

Re:Other possibility (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574078)

Interesting. I was about to ask the same, why does software reside in a realm of its own? When I usually buy something, I get to use it, modify it to fit my needs (funny enough, the copyright of my country explicitly grants me this right, to "modify software to enable interoperability") and most of all, I also get the right to resell it when I do not need it anymore or consider the money more interesting than the right to use the item.

It's oddly different with software, ya know...

Re:Other possibility (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574010)

Now this should be interesting, at least for the rest of the EU. Because one of the core "features" of the EU is the ability to buy and sell across country boarders within the union, and no union member shall make laws that interfere with the free movement of goods.

This door swings both ways, dear corporations!

Re:Other possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34575876)

I think the more likely scenario is SONY bombing Spain.

Pressing Questions (3, Interesting)

polyp2000 (444682) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573496)

Would this mean that sony can no-longer lock out users of modded PS3s from things like the Store , etc? As , that was a feature that was also removed if the user continues to make use of the OtherOS function ?

N..

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573602)

Does the Jailbreak work on the current Firmware? If it doesn't then Sony can simply say that the store uses a feature in the latest firmware that isn't present in the older versions and suggest you upgrade.

Even if it does, I don't think Sony's under any obligation to grant you access to the store or any online features.

Re:Pressing Questions (0)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573748)

Yet another company to add to my blacklist of companies not to buy from:
----- Google, Yahoo, MS, Amazon, Comcast, Sony. Man this thing is getting long (and it looks my new console will be a Nintendo).

Re:Pressing Questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34573986)

Yet another company to add to my blacklist of companies not to buy from:
----- Google, Yahoo, MS, Amazon, Comcast, Sony. Man this thing is getting long (and it looks my new console will be a Nintendo).

You forgot Apple.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573990)

Nintendo also try to stop hackers getting into Wiis by issuing regular updates. Admittedly they didn't have a Linux feature which they later removed though.

You forgot Intel btw. I'm against buying from them where possible at the moment.

I eventually gave in and bought an Xbox 360 recently though. The hardware is getting pretty reliable, and Xbox Live is generally better than PSN (plus a lot of my friends can't afford PS3s, and I want to play online with them).

Re:Pressing Questions (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574114)

You only added Sony now to that list? They've been on mine since the minidisc recorders that didn't allow you to export your own recordings (ya know, the ones that you own every possible right to) digitally.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574448)

Never owned a Minidisc.

I had the Digital Cassettes from Philips, because I wanted the backwards compatibility with my analog collection. Of course they had the same "no copy" limitation but to be fair, that was the fault of the US Government not the manufacturers. RIAA sued in court, won the case circa 1990, and forced manufacturers to block copies of digital cassettes or minidiscs. (RIAA's been acting like MAFIAA a long, long time.) Anyway: Sony was actually on my blacklist, ever since they did that PC Destructo-Rootkit deal with storebought CDs.

Re:Pressing Questions (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576706)

Whoever was responsible for the "no copy" bull, Sony sold those thing explicitly as a convenient tool to make high quality recordings. Being unable to get those recordings out of the MD recorder kinda defeats the purpose entirely.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574508)

Add Nintendo to that list as well. They regularly issue firmware updates to try to stop people using the homebrew channel.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574542)

I just built a new gaming HTPC cause I was tired of the Xbox360/PS3 shenanigans. I want to log in to buy DLC, but I don't want my machines to lose features through the required updates.

HTPC game selection (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34582818)

I just built a new gaming HTPC cause I was tired of the Xbox360/PS3 shenanigans.

Because of low penetration [pineight.com] , very few games made for PC are designed with a mode optimized for HTPCs. In a lot of cases, the features that would make a game perfect for HTPCs are present on the Wii or Xbox 360 version but cut from the PC version. These include, for example, gamepad support and split-screen cooperative play. In other cases, major label games in some genres rarely reach the PC at all, especially fighting games and other arcade style games whose multiplayer mode doesn't need to split the screen. Can you recommend some good HTPC games other than the ones listed on this HTPC gaming advocacy page [pineight.com] ?

Re:Pressing Questions (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575142)

Google, Yahoo, MS, Amazon, Comcast, Sony. Man this thing is getting long (and it looks my new console will be a Nintendo).

O rly? Nintendo has successfully sued [slashdot.org] a distributor of "R4" modchips for Nintendo DS. I'm done with consoles, and I'll be playing PC games even if I have to make them myself.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580708)

----- Google, Yahoo, MS, Amazon, Comcast, Sony.

Don't forget GM. And Toyota (engines overheating & sludging at 20,000 miles; batteries dying in priuses; brakes the computer is programmer to ignore; warranties that are blamed on the customer ("you only changed the oil every 7000 miles") instead of being honored).

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580846)

"engines overheating & sludging at 20,000 miles"

Change your fucking oil more often.

Every 3,000 miles and my old '87 Tercel kept going until 115,000 miles, when a ROD snapped.

Re:Pressing Questions (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573686)

I don't see anything about that in the rulling; probably Sony can continue to lock them out, since it's a separate service with its own rules.

Great news for Europe (4, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#34573522)

Great news for Europe as a whole, due to our common market importing these from Spain means they wont face customs checks.

Sounds like Spain will make a good distribution base for them.

Re:Great news for Europe (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34574178)

Cool. I'd love to move to Europe. What's a good English speaking country there?

Re:Great news for Europe (1)

ballfire (807022) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574346)

I've heard there is a place in Europe called England where they speak English quite well.

Re:Great news for Europe (1)

spectrokid (660550) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574370)

Cool. I'd love to move to Europe. What's a good English speaking country there?
France

Re:Great news for Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34575920)

Japan [wikimedia.org] .

Re:Great news for Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34574372)

France

Re:Great news for Europe (1)

vlueboy (1799360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34574368)

A phyrric victory, really. Spanish "reforms" outside economics can't do the EU any good due to its waning strength (ratings) [proactiveinvestors.com] relative to its stronger EU neighbors. It's been warned [marketwatch.com] since around summer at least [wsj.com] , and is now the EU's next Ireland-bailout-like candidate.

Countries with good laws and no economic [ergo, political] power can do little positive for their neighbors, let alone be a game-changer in America and Japan till it can get its economy back together. They've got too many problems to worry about games, and consoles/gaming are only serious social (WoW), legal (laws about who can/can't play) and major investment factors (all or nothing, folks) in Japan and the United States.

will only discourage Sony from supporting Linux (1)

KWTm (808824) | more than 3 years ago | (#34580516)

FTFA:

One of the reasons that the trial was based on is that legalizing PSJailbreak SONY remove the GNU / Linux where you claim Sony which sells a console with a number of features that were later removed, also talks about the user can do whatever you want with your console purchased allowing you to enter including the "guts" of the console with full right and one's Playstation 3 is not only used exclusively to play original games from Sony.

From what I can tell, the reason it's okay to jailbreak is because, by (previously) allowing GNU/Linux, Sony said it was "okay to jailbreak" (or at least okay to modify and hack), and then they took away that capability.

It seems to me that would discourage Sony and other big companies from supporting Linux, because some jurisdiction somewhere might interpret that as "But you said it was okay for your customers to wrest control away from you!".

Hopefully not. Maybe someone with a better knowledge of Spanish than I can check the original article and confirm/refute this?

Spanish... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34573558)

Just FYI, NicaGamerz isn't Spanish, it's Nicaraguan.

What really needs to happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34574680)

Is for them to make the opposite, that being active attempts to STOP Jailbreaking, or restrict use of something you've purchased by artificial means, Illegal.

In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers. (4, Informative)

jbssm (961115) | more than 3 years ago | (#34575450)

It wouldn't be illegal to jailbreak anyway. Spanish constitution grants you the right to do whatever you want in your place has long has you keep it to yourself.

For instance, you can plant cannabis, as long has you don't sell it to anyone, keep it inside all the time and don't use it with other people there.

It's a great principle in my opinion. If what you are doing it's just for you, it can't harm anyone and if you are an adult you should be able to do whatever you want in your privacy.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

werfu (1487909) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576468)

So, someone building a shooting range in his basement, stock piling weapons and ammo, or building pipebombs for fun, all of this, in their privacy, would run free?

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

jbssm (961115) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576560)

Having the tools to commit a crime, doesn't make you a criminal.

Being a male you should have a penis, did you find it fun to incarcerate you just because you have the tools to commit a rape?

About your particular case, the possession of weapons in Spain is forbidden, except in very special cases. More than handling a lunatic stockpiling weapons at home, the police should care about people selling the guns in the first place.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34577402)

hehe.. male plants :P
and about the weapons: http://www.publico.es/espana/351942/casi-3-4-millones-de-armas

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34576932)

really? so building an unshielded nuclear reactor should be OK just as long as it's kept in your own home?

Clearly there are limits to this principle. The trick is figuring out where they are.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34577996)

That's not exactly "keeping it to yourself" then, is it?

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

mijelh (1111411) | more than 3 years ago | (#34578010)

really? so building an unshielded nuclear reactor should be OK just as long as it's kept in your own home?

Clearly there are limits to this principle. The trick is figuring out where they are.

In that case, the radiation won't be kept in your own home, so that's not a valid point. But if you shield the thing right, you can for sure build your own nuclear reactor, in Spain or otherwise (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10385853)

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34577232)

For instance, you can plant cannabis, as long has you don't sell it to anyone, keep it inside all the time and don't use it with other people there.

it is not entirely true that you can plant cannabis at home in spain, there are many nuances. for example, it is allowed if you show that is ornamental(male)
sorry about my horrible english skills.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

ccguy (1116865) | more than 3 years ago | (#34577586)

No idea why this is +5 informative, it should be +5 BS. Care to point to the relevant constitution text? There are lots of things you can't do in your place. You can't have a gun without a license for example. You can't have certain animals. And the by the way, this judge can't say what's legal and what's not. It's not the job of the judges to decide that in Spain - that's the job of the law makers. This judge *authorized* the sale (which was previously prevented at Sony's request), that's all.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

jbssm (961115) | more than 3 years ago | (#34578780)

Article 18 of the Spanish constitution:

"1. Se garantiza el derecho al honor, a la intimidad personal y familiar y a la propia imagen. 2. El domicilio es inviolable. Ninguna entrada o registro podrá hacerse en el sin consentimiento del titular o resolución judicial, salvo en caso de flagrante delito. 3. Se garantiza el secreto de las comunicaciones y, en especial, de las postales, telegráficas y telefónicas, salvo resolución judicial. 4. La Ley limitará el uso de la informática para garantizar el honor y la intimidad personal y familiar de los ciudadanos y el pleno ejercicio de sus derechos."

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

ccguy (1116865) | more than 3 years ago | (#34579560)

If you are referring to 2) It just means that the police needs a judge to sign a warrant to enter into your home (unless they have certainty that a crime is being committed). It doesn't mean in any way that you can do whatever you want at home.

Re:In Spain, consitution protects the jailbreakers (1)

atisss (1661313) | more than 3 years ago | (#34578296)

Well, if you grow cannabis inside, it's not visible from anywhere and you don't share it with anyone, there wouldn't be any reason for anyone to even check or suspect you in the first place :p

Olé (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34576040)

Olé

Watch out Spain (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34576854)

keep this up, and a few of those drones over Afghanistan may pay a visit, you filty IP terrorists!

Re:Watch out Spain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34579064)

Intelligence reports that the next batch of PS3s shipped into Spain have a belt of C4 strapped around them as a "mandatory option".

Viva Espana ! (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#34578998)

in case you dont know, p2ping copyrighted material is also legal in spain, per supreme court decision.
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