Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

EU Wants Power To Block China's Tech Buying

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the communist-block dept.

Government 203

itwbennett writes "In an interview with German daily paper Handelsblatt, the EU's industry commissioner, Antonio Tajani, said he wants the power to block China from buying up European tech companies. Tajani envisions an authority along the same lines as the United States' Committee on Foreign Investment and would determine 'if the acquisition (of a company) with European know-how by a private or public foreign company represented a danger or not.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

China is becoming too powerful (1)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727574)

I think they're really much more worried about China becoming the super power that it will. You can be quite sure that the world will be a lot different in 10-15 years, and China will be the new country number one.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (5, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727640)

Personally, I do not mind if they become #1. I object because they are cheating the whole way and it is obvious that top pols are in a cold war with the west. And yet, of the flower childs running around the west scream give China a chance. I say, let those flower childs (and the GD CEOs that move the jobs there) to MOVE TO CHINA AND STAY THERE.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (3, Insightful)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727672)

It actually resembles a lot how US got into power. They ignored European copyrights completely and in the same way took what they needed without giving back. Karmas law, eh?

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727808)

citation needed.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727844)

Go read about the American Industrial Revolution. Specifically I believe it was the grain thresher and the cotton gin.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (2)

TimSSG (1068536) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727994)

The troll needs to site evidence. Tim S. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_gin [wikipedia.org]

The modern version of the cotton gin was created by the American inventor Eli Whitney in 1793 to mechanize the cleaning of cotton. The invention was granted a patent on March 14, 1794.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

lul_wat (1623489) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728236)

Cite evidence, as in Citation.
Not Site evidence, as in Website.

Although Citing a Website .. Siting
Oh lawd.

no, the power loom (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728160)

Mr. Lowell visited water-powered mills in England and managed to memorize all the critical details. He then returned home to the US, got together some investors, and set up shop on the Merrimack River in what is now called Lowell, Massachusetts.

That led to quite a bit, because you then need mechanical engineering and mechanics.

It's more complicated than just that.... (4, Informative)

Bacon Bits (926911) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728336)

Yes, but the reason the US machines were able to take off is because the European mills were all destroyed or put out of business by the people who worked, owned, or invested in the manually run non-industrialized mills. If the Europeans hadn't so soundly rejected the new processes then industry in the US would have floundered by being unable to produce goods at competitive prices.

Today we remember these angry Europeans -- who are infamous for storming the new mills and breaking the machines -- for the name of one of the most outspoken among them: George Ludd. Yes, they were the Luddites.

Yes, the plans were stolen away to the US, but they were not being used in Europe because the technology was socially unacceptable!

Re:It's more complicated than just that.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728430)

The Luddites were nowhere near as influential as you seem to think.

And it was Ned Ludd, BTW, not George and he is now widely believed not to have been an actual person.

Re:It's more complicated than just that.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728506)

China is doing that too. The Chinese will probably say this some years down the road.

Yes, but the reason the Chinese economy was able to take off is because the European/American economies were all destroyed or put out of business by the people who owned or invested in the outsourced companies. If the Europeans/Americans hadn't so soundly rejected the new way of working then industry in China would have floundered by being unable to produce goods at competitive prices.

Today we remember these angry Europeans/Americans -- who are infamous for storming the new companies and making doing business in Europe/USA very difficult by introducing stringent laws -- for the name of one of the most outspoken among them: . Yes, they were the .

Yes, the companies were stolen by the Chinese, but they were not being used in Europe/USA because the way of doing business was socially unacceptable!

Re:It's more complicated than just that.... (3, Insightful)

drsquare (530038) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729038)

I'm pretty sure that machines were used in Europe, the Luddites were not successful. Although they had the right intentions: machinery lowered the pay and job security of the workers for the benefit of the mill owners.

What I'm wondering, is why Americans on Internet forums are so unknowledgeable about the things they talk about. It seems the less they know about a topic, the more passionately they talk about it.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (4, Insightful)

siddesu (698447) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727904)

Actually, the US got into power by waiting out until all major powers in Europe were badly bloodied by WWII, and then picking a side and trading old equipment for world dominance. See, e.g. destroyers for bases, lend-lease, etc.

Then, after the war, the US was easily able to attract talent by money - the so called "brain drain".

It is doubtful copyrights were even in the game, especially given the fact that the rules were largely synchronized immediately postwar, and the copyrights mostly covered literature anyway.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (2)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728814)

While the US didn't become one of the world's only two superpowers until after World War II, the US had already become a major economic player by the end of the 19th century. European literature of the time is filled with angst that those uncouth ex-colonials were buying up everything and signalling the demise of Europe.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728334)

I smell a troll.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (3, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728432)

That sad old "narrative" pops up in every single China thread on Slashdot, ever. Hint: the US did not "get into power" that way, and China's wholesale technology theft is orders of magnitude larger than that practiced by a 19th century agricultural nation. *sigh*

Re:China is becoming too powerful (3, Insightful)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729076)

And that is 10 times more worrisome because the right analogy is still there in history. It is not USA, it is Japan.

That is an analogy that is making me shudder for a moment.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728554)

Actually, the US "got into power" by means of the slave trade. This provided cheap labour to jump-start the economy and give companies a competitive edge. The wealth created by many of these companies has lasted for generations and is part of the "old money" club that still runs things today.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729194)

It actually resembles a lot how US got into power. They ignored European copyrights completely and in the same way took what they needed without giving back. Karmas law, eh?

Well they didn't ignore European copyrights all together - the English Starr chamber wasn't something you ignored, even in the colonies - neither was the Bastille a literary camp, they (sic) also were partially exempted from the Statute of Anne.... but essentially you are right. The American colonies were responsible for much of the seditious printing attributed to the Netherlands, and were instrumental in publishing the broadsheets that drove the Revolution. By ignoring the European edicts the Stock Market was formed which broke European control because it was outside European control. Citations for those whose ego's allows them to confuse visiting Slashdot with editing Wikipedia, and who's willful laziness and ignorance prevents them from doing their own research.

The first press in the British colonies in America was established in 1639. The Cambridge Press, like the Puritan press at Leyden before it, was begun to allow the publication of religious works without fear of interference from London (Starr Chamber - or burned on the stake in France). From the first it was firmly controlled by the ruling oligarchy and used for their ends.

The first important printing center outside of Massachusetts was Philadelphia, where William Bradford, according to his grand phrase, 'after Great Charge and Trouble...brought the great Art and Mystery of Printing into this part of America.' Following several minor collisions with the authorities for printing works without a license, Bradford became embroiled in sectarian disputes by taking the side of George Keith in his quarrel with the Quaker oligarchy and ended up on trial for seditious libel in 1692. Bradford found it convenient to accept the invitation of governor Benjamin Fletcher of New York to become the official printer there in 1693, and he was not replaced until Reynier Jansen arrived in 1699. In the meantime, the other press in the Middle colonies, that of William and Dinah Nuthead in Maryland, failed after ten years of shadowy practice, from which only one broadside has survived.

History - the game where the starving know the hand that feeds *is* protein.

d_s

Re:China is becoming too powerful (5, Insightful)

dangitman (862676) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727712)

And yet, of the flower childs running around the west scream give China a chance.

Who are you talking about here? The "flower children" are pretty much screaming at China in the name of a Free Tibet and the Dalai Lama. The "give China a chance" crowd are the über corporatist/capitalists.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727762)

I think being swede counts are being a flower child ;)

And Ericsson cooperated with Chinese companies (?) for network communication, for instance Huawei.

Ericsson was 18 times bigger.

Later Swedish Banverket (the rail-road company) bought their equipment from Huawei and became their first international reference.

And now Huawei is what? 20% smaller than Ericsson?

Worked great! :D

ABB are saying that the Chinese can't build 800 kV equipment, but they have gain the knowledge to build, but they have copied (?) / stolen (?) enough to be able to build if it's 500 kV gear. My references, quotes and facts for all this will fail so bad :D

But anyway, yeah, good for them!! The Chinese demanded that more R&D should be put there and since taxation was lower ABB did so. Great.

Also they don't want to build with 800 kV gear ATM as I understood things.

Our precious pearls =P, I wonder if they will rip off H&M as well? IKEA? =P
The Geeley guy said they would digest (similar meaning at least) Volvo cars in just a few years.
Don't know how competition is for Atlas-Copco but maybe it's there as well?

Or maybe I'm just spreading FUD? Or a victim of FUD? I don't know myself :)

Re:China is becoming too powerful (3, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727860)

More to the point they have a huge underclass and are facing fundamental resource limits which will prohibit improving the lives of those people. Limits like the supply of energy, food, water and land. Industrialisation will make a few Chinese people rich but if the wealth doesn't trickle down (I don't think it can) then the political situation will become very unstable.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1, Troll)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727964)

So, perhaps the west should consider giving up everything to North Korea, Somilia, Al Qaeda, and Venezuela as well. After all, they all have a lots of improvised individuals in these places as well.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728034)

So, perhaps the west should consider giving up everything to North Korea, Somilia, Al Qaeda, and Venezuela as well. After all, they all have a lots of improvised individuals in these places as well.

No I just mean Chinese growth is unstable for reasons not normally considered by economic modelling.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728150)

You and I both know damn well that the wealth won't trickle down any better there than it is here.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728996)

I don't think China is quite as stupidly free market fundamentalist as us ... I think at some point in the future after we have outsourced all we can outsource China is going to change it's monetary and tariff policy to go from a trade surplus country to a sustainable trade deficit country (you can sustain a trade deficit indefinitely if you have enough income from foreign investment, which we don't ... our trade deficit is fueled by debt, not investment in China). At which point it won't just allow wage inflation, it will force it (it is necessary, the economy and technological base can't be sustained without a consumer base).

Hell, I could see the west stay free trade fundamentalist even then ... just letting themselves be bled dry.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728244)

After all, they all have a lots of improvised individuals

Neat trick. Do they use needle and thread, or just Meccano?

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

McDrewbie (530348) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728990)

ah but the danger in unstable growth is the desire for more . . and they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it. I feel for the people and for the animals and the environment that might be destroyed because of this. But alas, we must let it play out as it will . . .

Cheating? at war? (2)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727970)

China is supposed to do everything to become number 1.

Since when did Americans become such wimps? Every nation cheats to win. It's called espionage.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (3, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728070)

Why not?
It's a libertarian's dream so long as they don't say anything bad about the government. Those with the wealth (or a company with wealth) have far more rights than those of the average individual and the government doesn't stop them with pesky minimum wage, safety and emissions laws. What are you waiting for? All you guys that complain about having to pay too much for staff, about how unions always get in the way, how the government won't let your company pollute and how the shit hits the fan when a worker is injured or dies - just shut up and move to China.

China needs workers rights as right now they are (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728118)

China needs workers rights as right now they are like the old days in the usa with the big time over time, unsafe work places, low pay and company towns.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728148)

flower childs running around the west scream give China a chance

What fantasy world do you live in? Seriously, do you just make stuff up?

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728730)

... it is obvious that top pols are in a cold war with the west.

What planet are you on? Do you really think that China is at some kinda *stalemate* with its debtor nations? It controls the playing field ATM, and the nations who asked China for economic assistance are all playing ball with them. Cold war? Give your head a shake, your brain is about 30 years behind the times.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728756)

and how did america become a superpower again ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio [wikipedia.org]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html [thirdworldtraveler.com]

it is easy to become a superpower if you are able to dominate more than half of the world into a dominion, allowing you to use their raw resources cheaply and monopolizingly, and use them as markets to export.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727700)

Funny how people see capitalism, free market and globalization now...

Sure they are willing to offer more for less, so hence they will gain the most.

But richer people in china and higher productivity gives more items and eventually still for less.

What will fail is resources and energy. Mostly energy I assume since if nothing else the resource issue is and issue even when it comes to generating more energy.

The sooner and better you recycle the more items and better for everyone in the future. Should be freaking obvious. You can make lots of car batteries, touch screens, solar panels and so on as long as you recycle the minerals I assume. If you're going to dump and spread them all over the globe afterward with no mines with higher concentrations / other minerals you mine anyway then tough luck.

So fucking stupid not to.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727840)

No one can compete on price with China.

To have an ecosystem, you must have plankton. In that sense low paid workers are the plankton that keeps the EEC economy alive.

Well China has so far succeeded in hoovering all the low paying jobs out of the EEC (and USA) and causing misery for low paid workers (both unskilled, and putting the heat on some skilled sectors).

Being able to mass produce respectable European Brand names, and drive down engineering sectors is their next 'wave'.

China does not need to 'Tech' buy. They only do so to ensure their markets will not be cut off when new 'tariffs' are created. Yes tariffs must be introduced against China - give it time.

People are waking up, so are governments. Paying non-working plankton social welfare is becoming unsustainable; and electorally politicians are not safe.

Removing the nice recurrent revenue/ Tax 'Tech Firms' pay (always happens after takeovers) will mean EEC govt's wont even have the revenue to pay benefits to all those tech workers about to be marginalized. .

Re:China is becoming too powerful (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727948)

The US can. Stop accepting items from China which don't meet our safety and environmental regulations. And put a tariff on their items sufficient to make them effectively as expensive as they would be without the illegal Yuan manipulation that China has engaged in.

As it is, China barely has any advantage at all in terms of cost of labor. In fact a number of companies are bringing their Chinese operations back to the US because they were spending more on labor than they were in the US.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728132)

technically, that would be suicide. China owns the US. If China stops buying US bonds, the US falls, as well as China cash reserve.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729050)

Not as long as Helicopter Bernanke is in power of the Fed. Bernanke has no problem at all growing the Fed balance sheet into the stratosphere if it's necessary to sustain jobs. If China refuses to buy US debt at low interest rates he will ... the same thing goes for the UK, there too inflation is a secondary concern to maintaining jobs, their central bank will absorb as much debt as necessary to keep interest rates low. Only the EU is really in danger of throwing it's economy off a cliff because Germany is refusing to allow inflation.

Then repudiate China's debt, and watch China burn. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729186)

That debt is also a weapon. Repudiate the debt, get closer to Europe (than China ever could be), and watch the riots in Peking.

The First World can survive, but the Third World will eat itself alive.

And Europe is becoming too stupid (1, Troll)

siddesu (698447) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727872)

It is really hard to believe what kind of crap becomes policy courtesy of the European Commission these days.

It is even funnier when you consider that the EC is basically very close to the Chinese Politburo -- the Commission is neither elected by the people whose money it liberally wastes, nor effectively accountable to anyone, but the backroom dealers in Europe.

It is a sham and a shame.

Re:And Europe is becoming too stupid (2)

lordholm (649770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729196)

Zero governments are elected in Europe, they are appointed by parliament. In a few cases the head of the government is elected, but the normal way is that the prime minister is appointed by the speaker of the parliament / king / queen and then forms the government. The government is then approved by parliament.

The same happens in the EU. The commission is appointed by the states and then subject to the approval of parliament. The commission is further fully accountable to the parliament. The parliament have the powers of no confidence votes.

I do not claim to be an expert in how the Chinese politburo is assembled, but it is certainly not subject to the wills of an elected parliament.

Re:China is becoming too powerful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728268)

Perhaps if Europe asked China nicely. And, maybe let Greece freely affiliate themselves with their communist kindred.

New Department (1)

andoman2000 (1755610) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727594)

The new department to be headed by Dr. No

China does it (0)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727602)

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Plus, have the chinese produced anything original yet? Truly original. Anything?

Re:China does it (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727648)

Actually, they are starting to. And I think that we will see more coming from them. Having cheap manufacturing available helps ppl

Re:China does it (3, Insightful)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727728)

China is pretty much where Japan was 30-40 years ago. Look where Japan is today and that's where China will be in a few decades.

Re:China does it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727978)

1955 Doc: No wonder this circuit failed. It says "Made in Japan".

Marty: What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.

1955 Doc: Unbelievable.

Re:China does it (1)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728238)

You haven't been paying attention. China already has a bigger economy than Japan, and in a few decades they'll be speaking Mandarin in the White House.

Re:China does it (2)

timeOday (582209) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728346)

If China's per capita GDP [wikipedia.org] were equal to Japan's right now, they would have the world's largest economy by more than a factor of 3.

33828*1331460000 / (47123*307006550)
ans = 3.1133

Right now US defense spending [wikipedia.org] is 6.8 times the next largest competitor (China). Imagine if China out-spent the US by a factor of 3 instead. It would be a different world.

Re:China does it (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727788)

At least they have got similar equipment.
ZTE Blade
Huawei U8500
Huawei 4G

Though the processors is slower (but not impossible for them to get faster ones I assume? They just want to keep prices low?)

Considering that they have tied their money .... (5, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727618)

to the dollar, I say block it. The fact is, that while China belongs to WTO and IMF, they obey NONE of it. It is time for the west to say enough, is enough. China needs to obey the treaties and other legal obligations that they have signed. That includes:
  1. allowing their money to float freely(WTO, IMF, and Clinton accord).
  2. Quit dumping (WTO, and Clinton Accord).
  3. Quit subsidizing all of their state businesses (WTO, IMF, and Clinton Accord).
  4. drop trade barriers(WTO, and Clinton Accord).
  5. Turn on their pollution control mechanisms (Japanese treaty).
  6. Allow rare earth exports (WTO).
  7. quit buying up companies and the telling them to either move the company to China or directing that 100% of the goods be transfered to China (WTO).

And that is just for starters.
The fact is, that the west needs to say enough is enough. I support free trade, but not when it is one sided.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727862)

hey well they are going into debt too now http://buttonwood.economist.com/content/gdc [economist.com]

so it looks like peter is borrowing money from paul to have paul borrow money from peter

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (3, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727916)

China has been printing Yuans like they are going out of style. QE2 is designed to shake China off of America's coat tail. The longer that they tie their Yuan to the dollar, the worst that things will get for them. Shortly, they will see massive inflation. And if they do NOT untie the Yuan from the dollar, then I expect that QE3 will be done. THAT will run China's inflation up to MINIMUM of 40% with ZERO chance of slowing that puppy down.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729074)

What if the Republicans cement their power and the bankers (who hate inflation) take over control of the Fed though? QE is obviously beneficial to the economy as a whole, but the powers rallying against it (a combination of stupid people and people who'd throw their granny off a train for short term gain) are powerful.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729092)

This all sounds very authoritative, but really I have no idea what you mean or what you base the numbers on. So the evidence suggests that you're an economist.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729138)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa!! :)

You made me laugh too hard.

QE2 is 'designed' to do WHAT? :)))))))

QE2 is an admission that US debt is no longer attractive to the foreign buyers, that the long terms interest rates are going up and cannot be controlled by Fed set short term interest rates, that inflation is rampant.

QE2 is the Fed being the lender of last resort to the US federal government. QE2 is an admission that US federal government is bankrupt.

I fully expect that this spring bonds of US municipalities will be also in the same trouble and there will be some sort of QE3 to buy back US muni bonds.

QE2 is a disaster and if it has anything to do with China, it's that China is waking up and it's no longer interested in both financing US debt and providing US with goods to be bought with the Chinese financed debt.

QE2 is a consequence of a failed fiscal and monetary policy and of a failed government.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729060)

Does that take into account their foreign exchange reserves? You really need to subtract those from public debt for an accurate picture.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (2)

telomerewhythere (1493937) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727880)

I googled "Clinton accord" and got nothing like what you describe. Could you please direct me to the proper references?

Thanks in advance.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34727956)

You support free trade but you insist their trade be restricted. Personally I'm against free trade. It never made sense when it was first proposed and it's brought a lot of grief to the first world. It's one thing having free trade with countries like Canada and the US or even much of Europe and North America where the economies are similar. Merging with a third world country means the first world country has to drop their standard of living to compete. The problem for the world now is how do you say no to China? Most of our electronics come from China is does much of the clothing and nearly a 100% of our light bulbs. They are becoming the primary supplier of much of what we depend on. If they restrict exports it'd take us years to gear up production. With things like rare earth materials we could be a decade or two trying to produce what we need. We're already at their mercy and it will only get worse. We just fought an economic world and we lost. They just paid off the rich owners of the corporations and won without firing a shot. This war was fought with lobbyist not bullets.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (4, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727996)

I do not say that their free trade should be restricted. I say that as long as they are not obeying the treaties/laws that they agreed to, THEN there is no reason for us to honor our side. Free trade is about TWO WAY TRADING. CHina is not about 2 way trade. It is about gaining it quickly and with interest in the real issues. They are in a cold war with us and using the economy against the west. It is time for us to stop this.

One way to pull our electronics out of CHina is to get western companies to move it back. However, QE2 is designed to do that for us. It will shake China lose, or they will suffer massive inflation.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728176)

Why should they respect free trade ? Everybody's kneeling at them to get a share of their resources. They can do without us, we cannot do without them, we lost, we cannot sustain our social pressure and lifestyle without them.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (2)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728388)

You support free trade but you insist their trade be restricted. Personally I'm against free trade. It never made sense when it was first proposed and it's brought a lot of grief to the first world. It's one thing having free trade with countries like Canada and the US or even much of Europe and North America where the economies are similar. Merging with a third world country means the first world country has to drop their standard of living to compete.

Well, one of the key theorems in trade is that it's beneficial to exchange goods as long as there's a relative difference in productivitiy, regardless if one country is superior to another in every way. That is, if we can produce good A much faster than China and good B a tiny bit faster than China, we should specialize in producing A and export that while importing B for a net gain compared to producing B ourselves while China does the opposite. As such it's not unreasonable that rich countries have trade with poor countries.

When you add unemployment it starts being complicated because the above assumes both countries are maximizing their production. Unemployed people aren't productive which means China is better off producing both goods rather than importing from the US as long as they aren't capacity limited, while the US is now hooked on cheap imports and can't produce them domestically at a competitive price. So you get a trade imbalance, in theory some of this could still be balanced as China buys other things from other countries for US dollars but in practise it doesn't work out.

However, one thing that people seem to think which is wrong is that China is not particularly interested in a US downfall, at least not short term. They're more interested in picking the crown jewels by saying "Um yeah cheap labor we got that, decent tech level we got that, what exactly do you have that we'd really need to get from the outside?" Rare earth minerals or oil resources could be good examples of that. Specific pieces of technology they don't have. Basically it's about sniping the valuables while the US is spending their huans filling up the Wal-Marts.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728764)

china doesnt obey wto and imf. very probably because these are organizations who are in u.s. mandate, always doing whatever u.s. wants. even in the trade conflict in early 2000s between eu and u.s., they didnt act objectively.

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (1)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728860)

You support free trade, but not when the other "side" is "winning"? Are you crazy? Do you even know what "free trade" is? It's a ticket for transnational companies to do what the hell they like, override local laws and generally be a government unto themselves. Now, what is one-sided?

Re:Considering that they have tied their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729048)

"The West" has been using similar tactics for quite some time. IMF and WTO and its predecessor, GATT were the primary instruments in manipulating and ramming Globalization through the under developed and developing countries to the detriment of local economies. "The West" still does it. The thing "The West" didn't anticipate the effects of Globalization was the chance that one of these countries could become powerful enough and start using the same tactics.

So in summary, Globalization was great as long as it was one way and local economies in these countries were/are taking a hit. But once the unanticipated effects of Globalization started showing up in "The West", there is bitching and moaning.

What goes around, comes around, that is why do unto others ...

THIS IS GOOD NEWS (1)

HelloKitty2 (1585373) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727888)

I 3 E.U. FOR DOING THIS. :))

So Chinese agents will buy the companies instead. (2)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727962)

And the only thing they'll accomplish is they'll force China to use it's covert/secret agents to buy European tech companies. If China wants to buy a company nobody and nothing can stop it. They'll have their European shell company set up with their puppet CEO who will covertly buy the company in the name of China. Then years later China will overtly take control.

It's called a hostile takeover.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727984)

And that is what has been going on in America. Part of several bill by W allowed companies to hide their investors. If the rest of the west does not want wholesale destruction of their nations like has happened to America, then they need to require all investment companies to disclose who the investors in them are.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728052)

No one has mentioned yet that China has a long history...including thousands of years of intrigue. They have plenty of practice in the cloak & dagger business. Quite different than the relatively short history of Europeans in N. America.

It's been going on since before Bush (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728078)

It's been going on since the 80s at least as far as I've been alive. Japanese companies were the big threat back then and were using sneak techniques to conduct a covert hostile takeover.

It's what we should expect from any nation state. They want to steal American technology, business, control of industry, etc. They also want to steal jobs.

Re:It's been going on since before Bush (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728774)

yeeeeeeees. they are after americans. yees. they are after american riches and whatnot yees.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (3, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728166)

Uh, "wholesale destruction" isn't what's happening to the US, and China can take little credit for the decline that is happening. At worst, the US is having a slump, caused by incompetent leadership and short-sighted financial policy, combined with a media that doesn't "report" the news so much as it "spins" the news.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (2)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34727988)

They don't have to be covert or secret. The housing bubble in Australia has been driven to a large extent by Chinese buyers. The property is actually owned by Chinese born Australian citizens but the money is coming from China.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728126)

I know a few Chinese born Australian citizens who would really love it if this conspiracy theory is true, but instead they have to save to hit a moving target just like the rest of us.
The reality is pretty well the same as the US housing bubble and a whole lot of others in history. About the only twist we've got is a bit of artificial political manipulation because the press and others assume that sales of houses are equal to a measure of the economy - thus leading to the assumption that a lot of activity in housing means a good government.
In Queensland your yellow peril conspiracy is instead those "damned southerners" buying up all the property and driving the price up. Once again a conspiracy theory fed from a few isolated anecdotes that mean nothing but noise in a large system.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (3, Informative)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728146)

This comes from my wife's relatives and friends. They are primarily Malaysian born Chinese with Australian PR or citizenship. And yes they have a lot of trouble saving to buy. They see a lot of mainland Chinese born people buying property purely to invest. Additionally my wife works as an architect and she knows of mainland Chinese businesses which are actively investing in the Australian property market. They do projects typically between five and 10 million AUD. Usually high density unit development. She looked at working for them but they weren't paying enough to justify the risk.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (2)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728358)

Yes, real anecdotes but of little consequence to a larger system. It's just like a few real investors from Sydney buying land in Queensland but it's not enough to drive the bubble.
It's a weaker link than a conspiracy theory of saying that the Chinese run the Liberal Party via Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest and just as unlikely to make a difference in the long run. The mining sector is where there is a lot more investment than the trivial percentage of the housing market. Radio Rich Gay Redneck talkback subjects shouldn't be taken too seriously because it's all about getting people angry for entertainment.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (1)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728616)

I see. So any foreigner coming to invest 10 million in your country is a conspiracy. That's like, what? 0.001% of your country's GDP?

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728676)

I don't think its a conspiracy.

Re:So Chinese agents will buy the companies instea (1)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728252)

"Nobody and nothing can stop it".

Rubbish. Laws can be made that stop this kind of thing and China must abide by Western laws when doing business in the West (just as Western businesses must operate by Chinese laws in China). Stop the unfounded sensationalism please. Here the EU is clearly creating regulatory laws as is their sovereign right - and China is subject to them whether they like it or not (if they are caught stealing tech the full force of such laws is used against them). I applaud the EU for protecting the innovators in this case.

Leave China alone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728144)

Someone has to stand against Islam.

Under what power? (1, Informative)

SlappyBastard (961143) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728170)

The EU, as currently conceived, just flat-out doesn't have the power to enforce laws in individual countries. Look at the recent abortion ruling by the EU against Ireland. Ireland's response amounted to "And . . . ?"

The first time the EU tries to make this stick, they're going to have to go to court against every member nation the company in question operates in.

The Europeans need to face facts: they're not remotely as committed to the ideal of unity in practice as their speeches would suggest. Look at the bailout. The Eurozone basically exists so Germany and France can export surplus productivity to lazier, poorer countries. The Eurozone exists to correct flaws in the German Mark that the Germans themselves could never fix. But, when it comes time to pay up for indulging those lazier, poorer countries for profit, the Germans and French bitch and complain ceaselessly about having to do it. And worse, they force their partners into austerity measures that fundamentally extend the failures of the Mark to the Euro.

The Europeans are too stupid for their own good. The invent a unified government that no one ever intended to obey. They implement a a common currency that no one wants to back -- and then bitch when it turns out ya kinda have to back your currency no matter how badly your partners piss on it.

If it weren't for improving the passport rules, the EU would go down in history as an abject internationalist failure alongside the League of Nations.

The only question for the Europeans now is whether they do what the early US did. The early US figured out that the original Articles of Confederation were useless and barely empowered the government to do anything (sound familiar?). Eventually a new constituent assembly was called and a real Constitution (admittedly full of poisonous compromises) was written.

Until the EU gets down to the business of writing a non-pathetic organizing document, they might as well save the bullshit and let the Chinese steal everything.

Re:Under what power? (1)

Peeteriz (821290) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728552)

It does take at least a generation to get mental acceptance of the population for a move from nation-governments to a federal one. It took quite long for USA, and it's still state rights often become an issue; and it will take still quite some time in Europe.

Re:Under what power? (1)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728748)

What about things like the 3 strikes law, where the EU was fining countries for not implementing it?

Re:Under what power? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729056)

You post is the finest example of clueless people posting rubbish on slashdot. Sorry, but this had to be said.

The EU, as currently conceived, just flat-out doesn't have the power to enforce laws in individual countries.

This is incorrect. Not implementing for example EU directives results in painful monetary fines on the countries. And the EU has the power to enforce these as all countries are receiving large amounts of subsidies for various industries/agriculture from the EU.

  The Eurozone basically exists so Germany and France can export surplus productivity to lazier, poorer countries. The Eurozone exists to correct flaws in the German Mark that the Germans themselves could never fix.

This is incorrect. The Eurozone is the result of French politics to contain/constrain the power of a reunified Germany in the EU. This is a very well-documented fact. The Germans did profit from the lower exchange rate, but if they could they would have forgo these benefits for an independent currency. In fact the current account surplus of Germany comes from a decade of decline of wages in Germany, some economists argue that an independent currency would have set off these, but that's a hypothetical discussion and it's unclear if this would have been true given the current economic model of Germany.

And worse, they force their partners into austerity measures that fundamentally extend the failures of the Mark to the Euro.

Well, I have never heard any serious argument that the German Mark was a failure. It did create some interest pressure on smaller neighboring countries, but arguably that was never a problem for the Germans themselves (Sorry nederlands about this. We love you unless it comes down to football).

The invent a unified government that no one ever intended to obey.

In fact, that's incorrect in several aspects. First the EU- bureaucracy is not intended to be a government in the sense for the US, second the EU has enforced a large amount of rules onto its members. Just because you are not aware of it, it doesn't mean that it does not exist.

If it weren't for improving the passport rules, the EU would go down in history as an abject internationalist failure alongside the League of Nations.

With "the passport rules" is suppose you refer to the Schengen treaties with is separate from the EU, not all EU countries are participants (e.g. UK) and some non-EU countries are (e.g. Switzerland).
The main initial roots of the EU was a customs-free zone, a purpose which was and is hugely successful even in the opinion of EU critics (Hiho to all Brits ;-)

Re:Under what power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729082)

The problem with the EU is that it isnt as much as that people dont want it, but that we are all to damn different for our own good. in language and mentality. Even our nearest of kin(belgiums for the dutch) are a whole different kind of people. I just dont see it happening in the next 40 years.

Re:Under what power? (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729108)

You are missing the point.

In the case of Ireland EU was going against the political powers of Ireland and the public opinion there.

In the case of introducing rules on "EU interest" EU will be going along with the public opinion and politics in more than half of the EU countries. The only one to oppose that will probably be Britain and I would not be so sure about that one either.

EU peeing into the ocean (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728254)

Pretty hard to prevent the Chicoms or anyone from getting their hands on info these days.
Just download from compromised zombies.
And Chinese nationals in universities and companies throughout the world.

Let the games begin..... (3, Interesting)

Bob_Who (926234) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728380)

Economics. Its all a lot more civilized than violence.

But lets stop trying to win petty economic battles in lost wars... Democracies always seem to resort to trade restrictions when confronted by another majority. Its no fun anymore when you are suddenly out numbered by your own ideology.

Human beings are prone to human nature in any and all cultural landscapes. I read that in a fortune cookie (an American custom).

Personally, I like Chinese Food, and I look forward to prosperity and success for all nationalities no matter what economic policies are negotiated, or implemented. Just make sure not to squander life or liberty if wealth belongs to someone else... Other people are people, too.

Re:Let the games begin..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728522)

My God you're a fuckin retard! It sure as hell isn't civilized IF YOU'RE NOT PLAYING BY THE RULES! In fact, wars get started over shit like this; and i'm not talking about the trade war type either.

deficits (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34728412)

If Europe keeps running enormous deficits China is going to want to buy something in exchange for funding these huge deficits.

That, or just make China write off that debt (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729248)

It's kind of hard to ask for a debt when the developed world repudiates the debt owed to a Third World country. Especially when that means China is eaten alive by its own people.

Let's buy China's companies! (5, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728468)

Let's do China one better, and buy its tech companies and loot their assets! What's that you say? China has laws on the books prohibiting the sale or investment of companies which may damage its national interest? Entire industries are restricted [chinadaily.com.cn] ? And there are parts of China's economy totally prohibited from any foreign investment whatsoever [xing.com] ? Surely Europe and America can trust this country and not apply any reciprocal policies that fuck over China as much as China fucks over foreign firms.

Re:Let's buy China's companies! (1)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728578)

Let's do China one better, and buy its tech companies and loot their assets!

America has been doing this for decades with European companies.

Your head is in the sand if you think this is new with China.

Re:Let's buy China's companies! (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728722)

China has learned from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars [wikipedia.org]
Never good to be addicted to anything from the outside again.
Or let real cash flow out.

Re:Let's buy China's companies! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34729066)

They'll simply seize your assets when they feel threatened. They don't really care about the legality of it or the public image. You're comparing a communist state with a democracy. It doesn't work that way. How do you think they got to control all the land and factories in the country? Their owners donated them to the state?

One more time (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 3 years ago | (#34728586)

The Internet is designed to be a fault-tolerant network that routes around damage. To this network, censorship is damage. It may take a bit, but the network will find a way to route around this.

Then make sure indirect takeovers are blocked too. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729214)

If someone would directly or indirectly cause a prohibited country to benefit whether by hostile takeover, scuttling of the company, or any other means of takeover, then anyone involved in such a takeover can be pursued for treason in the member country.

If China wants to be despotic, it's going to have a lot of blood on its hands that it cant wash off. The only way you deal with China's despots is with hardball.

Even more: worldwide pursuit of such traitors (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 3 years ago | (#34729232)

If someone would directly or indirectly cause a prohibited country to benefit whether by hostile takeover, scuttling of the company, or any other means of takeover, then anyone involved in such a takeover can be pursued for treason as defined in the member country, and can be pursued anywhere in the world.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?