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Kinect Creators To Make PC Controller

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the platform-agnostic-arm-flailing dept.

Input Devices 96

Hugh Pickens writes "PrimeSense, the privately held Israeli company that licensed core Kinect technology to Microsoft, is teaming up with PC and peripheral maker Asus to create a similar device for the PC that can be used for browsing multimedia content and accessing the Internet and social networks — basically, the main things consumers use their PCs for. Last month, a Korean game developer claimed that Microsoft was working on a version of Kinect for the PC, but Microsoft hasn't confirmed any such plans."

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Minority Report? (1)

SBJ95 (992570) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750818)

Sounds like a precursor to Minority Report-like technology. Like we haven't heard *that* song and dance umpteen times before. Still, it sounds neat. And expensive. Damn student salary.

Re:Minority Report? (1)

Peeteriz (821290) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750838)

If they port the software and allow the same Kinect sensors to be used, then riding on the xbox mass production the price might be below $99 in a year - not that expensive at all compared to other gadgets.

Re:Minority Report? (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750966)

and considering xbox wireless cards are 50+ dollars and pc some where in 20s(15 if ur lucky)
100 dollars seems like it will be a high estimate

Re:Minority Report? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#34754960)

precursor? it's ALREADY better then the tech shown in Minority Report. For example, you don't need gloves.

Re:Minority Report? (1)

Bobakitoo (1814374) | more than 3 years ago | (#34833514)

Gloves are need to improve hands visibility in the poorly lit reality of the future.

Re:Minority Report? (1)

spazdor (902907) | more than 3 years ago | (#34838480)

IR imaging would make this tech even cooler.

Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

markass530 (870112) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750842)

I'm just hoping it doesn't get railroaded by ms or something else.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (3, Funny)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750906)

....or something else.

Linux drivers would be desirable.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750948)

There have been Linux drivers for the kinect since the first day it was opened up, where have you been?

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (0)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750982)

There have been Linux drivers for the kinect since the first day it was opened up...

For a device yet to be adapted for PC-es? Got that time machine primed already?

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (2)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751044)

"Drivers and libraries for the Xbox Kinect device on WIndows, Linux, and OS X" [github.com]

Linux drivers for the device itself have been available the entire time (since it was 'hacked'). You are completely free to use that to make whatever style of HID you wish.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751108)

"Drivers and libraries for the Xbox Kinect device on WIndows, Linux, and OS X" [github.com]

Linux drivers for the device itself have been available the entire time (since it was 'hacked'). You are completely free to use that to make whatever style of HID you wish.

Informative... but...
those are the drivers for MS incarnation of Kinect Core. Are you sure the Asus incarnation will use the same encoding/protocol? Are you sure it will be equally easy to break by RE?

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34751170)

"break" ? They left it open. There was nothing to break.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751262)

There was nothing to break.

Wasn't it? [adafruit.com]

Is this why the EFF received $2000?

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34751812)

The Kinect doesn't require jailbreaking, loading new firmware, installing a modchip, hooking up a JTAG cable, or even opening the case to use under Linux. Just plug it in and run the software. Furthermore, creating the software didn't require finding a private key or decrypting anything.

All they had to do was reverse-engineer the protocol. Since the protocol wasn't documented this wasn't a trivial task, but it hardly required them to "break" anything.

The MS spokesperson that contacted them was obliquely warning about physically tampering with the hardware (modchips or somesuch) and some idiot at Adafruit misinterpreted that as meaning that simply writing drivers was somehow going against Microsoft's wishes.

dom

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752028)

Mate, I do agree that they didn't need to "jail-break" the hardware, they only needed to "break the protocol/encoding".
However, it still seems that MS is "royaly not amused" [cnet.com] :

Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant.

You really know how to make yourself look silly (2)

apparently (756613) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753966)

Mate, I do agree that they didn't need to "jail-break" the hardware, they only needed to "break the protocol/encoding". However, it still seems that MS is "royaly not amused" [cnet.com] :

To support your case, you link to a statement Microsoft made prior to the release of the opensource driver. A statement that was made explicitly about "product tampering."
But look what slashdot reported [slashdot.org] two weeks after your failed scavenger hunt -- Alex Kipman, Xbox Director of Incubation:

The first thing to talk about is, Kinect was not actually hacked. Hacking would mean that someone got to our algorithms that sit inside of the Xbox and was able to actually use them, which hasn't happened. Or, it means that you put a device between the sensor and the Xbox for means of cheating, which also has not happened. That's what we call hacking, and that's what we have put a ton of work and effort to make sure doesn't actually occur. What has happened is someone wrote an open-source driver for PCs that essentially opens the USB connection, which we didn't protect, by design, and reads the inputs from the sensor.

But yet you insist that Microsoft is "royally not amused" and will involve "law enforcement" (bold-face makes things sound scary, amiright?)
So with that said, can you please stop the attempts at pedantry?

Re:You really know how to make yourself look silly (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34760900)

But yet you insist that Microsoft is "royally not amused" and will involve "law enforcement" (bold-face makes things sound scary, amiright?)

So with that said, can you please stop the attempts at pedantry?

Nah, looking silly is never a good reason to stop asking. Otherwise, how can I get to know different points of view that others may have? (and a sincere thanks for yours... I mean it.)
Are you afraid enough to stay at a point where you seem to have all the answers and no further questions?

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751658)

Even if the Asus version will be dramatically different, which is highly doubtable, it likely won't make and difference. There isn't much reason to think the second won't fall as easy as the first.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

Asic Eng (193332) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752276)

Asus has absolutely nothing to gain by locking out Linux - they don't profit from Microsoft Xbox or OS sales. MS doesn't want the Kinect hardware to be used on anything but the Xbox 360 - they won't even like the Asus hardware to work with Windows.

For MS it makes perfect sense to put up roadblocks for driver development. Asus on the other hand, might not particularly care about Linux but they have no motivation to make it hard for someone to write Linux drivers.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750988)

they may try locking up the (cheaper) pc compatible version tho
no big software comp. has started messing with the kinect for pc yet so no software to break; i.e. no extra reason to not lock it up

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34761080)

Linux drivers would be desirable.

Phht, so done, see OpenNI [google.com] .

There's even GPL code to turn Kinect hand gestures into LIRC controls using those drivers;
    MythTV-Users List [gossamer-threads.com]
    OpenNI List [google.com]

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750914)

Who gives a shit if they "allow" it? The cat is out of the bag, they had their chance to try to 'secure' the device and they blew it.

Re:Great..but will MS allow it? (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34755078)

Lol. They didn't blow anything. They did not try to secure the device, obviously. There's no encryption or anything "difficult" about using the Kinect device itself.

MS doesn't own technology, only license it (1)

S3D (745318) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751622)

Owner of technology is is PrimeSense [primesense.com]

There's only one realistic use for this.. (1)

MerelyASetback (1969768) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750854)

Farmville just got better!

Re:There's only one realistic use for this.. (1)

bughunter (10093) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753884)

Yifftown just got better!

Fixed to optimize likelihood.

Room size (1, Informative)

msobkow (48369) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750856)

As interesting as a Kinect-style device for my PC sounds, it just ain't gonna work. You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things.

I want something that'll scan gestures from a chair position, not an across-the-room position.

Re:Room size (1)

MahJongKong (883108) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750888)

They don't expect the users to stand in front of their 22" screen, they'll just keep the stupid wave of the hand and air slapping to browse the virtual libraries.

Re:Room size (1)

babyrat (314371) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750916)

Why do you think they can't and won't tweak the technology to scan gestures from a chair position?

They do have these things called wide angle lenses.

 

Re:Room size (4, Funny)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751024)

WRONG.

This will be the sweetest innovation since the cuecat or the powerglove.

Re:Room size (1)

damien_kane (519267) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753590)

WRONG.

This will be the sweetest innovation since the cuecat or the powerglove.

How could they possibly expect to top the powerglove?
"It's so bad..."

Nop (1)

S3D (745318) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751630)

PrimeSense/KInect tech is scalable. With different camera lens and different lens for laser it can work in range suitable for PC/Laptop or smartphone.

Re:Room size (3, Insightful)

cawpin (875453) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751734)

You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things.

Is your living room a closet? I don't have much space in front of my TV (about 8 feet wide by 8-9 feet deep) and the Kinect works just fine. I don't even use all of that space.

Re:Room size (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752914)

You're missing the point. You sit in front of a computer, typically at a distance of less than 1m. You sit maybe 2-2.5m away from your TV screen when using your console, as your TV is usually a lot larger than your monitor, your monitor shows more information in a smaller space due to your proximity to it.

Go get a wireless keyboard, sit on your sofa, and load up your email client on your TV at max supported resolution. Tell me how long it takes for you to learn forward, or simply stand up and walk over to read stuff.

You forgot home theater PCs (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753014)

You sit in front of a computer, typically at a distance of less than 1m. You sit maybe 2-2.5m away from your TV screen when using your console

You forgot home theater PCs. These look like consoles, and they play video on a TV like consoles, but they have PC hardware inside and run a PC OS so that the user doesn't have to use fragile, legally questionable jailbreaks just to go beyond what the manufacturer wants him to do with the hardware. But I'll grant that they aren't common... yet.

Re:You forgot home theater PCs (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34754044)

I use one at home; MythTV. I still won't use motion gestures for that kind of thing; Picking up a drink from the table could end up pausing recording, or swapping channel, or anything.

In fact, the only gesture I would have programmed in for such a device is standing / sitting, and that would pause / resume whatever was being watched at the time. That would still irritate the hell out of anyone you were watching a film with, though.

Re:You forgot home theater PCs (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34755104)

One could, of course, use an unlock gesture to start further gesture commands. For example, waving your hand twice over your head or something. Sure, you could still have accidents but you can also sit on your remote control and have it stop your movie or skip to the end.

Re:You forgot home theater PCs (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 3 years ago | (#34755150)

The way the Kinect system menu works is that you do a specific arcing "hello"-style wave from one side of the body to the other to get a lock on your hand. It's never picked me up accidentally.

It definitely "sees" you do all those things, but until you begin with the recognition gesture, it won't respond to any of those things. In a specific game, Kinect Sports, it asks you to raise a hand over your head if you want to be recognized as the primary operator. In other games like Dance Central where players hop in and out to play, you just step in and it'll pick you up immediately, and respond only when you fully extend an arm to the left or right. In Kinect Adventures, it will lock onto either player automatically, but only give control to the player standing furthest to the front.

The main drawback it faces is response time. It can measure the movement accurately, but not quickly. It's far faster to use a mouse cursor or arrow keys to navigate menus because of the cumulative delays in waiting for the cursor to keep up with my hand.

Re:You forgot home theater PCs (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34758078)

I use one at home; MythTV. I still won't use motion gestures for that kind of thing; Picking up a drink from the table could end up pausing recording, or swapping channel, or anything.

As others have said, you 'd use an unlock. Voice commands are an option not mentioned for this - clapping hands or snapping fingers would work as well.

I could readily see this for modifying the volume. Since Myth never found the motivation to implement SmartSound, you could save finding where the remote actually got placed with gestures. Kind of like a concert conductor for your TV. Raise one hand up in the air, snap your fingers and the volume would track your hand's elevation. Snap again and it stops tracking you. Something like that.

In fact, the only gesture I would have programmed in for such a device is standing / sitting, and that would pause / resume whatever was being watched at the time. That would still irritate the hell out of anyone you were watching a film with, though.

It seems trivial for such a system to detect how many others are in the room and only auto-pause when everyone gets up...

Re:Room size (1)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | more than 3 years ago | (#34834156)

Go get a wireless keyboard, sit on your sofa, and load up your email client on your TV at max supported resolution. Tell me how long it takes for you to learn forward, or simply stand up and walk over to read stuff.

I do. Gmail. I just use ctrl+ (zoom in, in a lot of applications) a lot. Also I changed the DPI settings, to make everything more readable. I read cheeseburger network sites and mail while lying on my couch.
The main problem I have is with building a playlist in Winamp, can't zoom that in really good so I have to stand up and build it.
Then again: that and viewing dvd's is about the only thing I do on the system, so this may or may not be valid for you.

Re:Room size (1)

slyrat (1143997) | more than 3 years ago | (#34757258)

You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things.

Is your living room a closet? I don't have much space in front of my TV (about 8 feet wide by 8-9 feet deep) and the Kinect works just fine. I don't even use all of that space.

The thing is that a lot of people that play games on their tv don't have this kind of room. The distance for my tv to couch is only 5ft or so. A lot of people in apartments are in the same boat and so there is a large number of people that this just doesn't work well with.

Re:Room size (1)

citizenr (871508) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752034)

As interesting as a Kinect-style device for my PC sounds, it just ain't gonna work. You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things.

I want something that'll scan gestures from a chair position, not an across-the-room position.

clueless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgLp-KyK5g8 [youtube.com]

Re:Room size (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34752104)

As interesting as a Kinect-style device for my PC sounds, it just ain't gonna work. You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things.

I want something that'll scan gestures from a chair position, not an across-the-room position.

You insensitive clod. They could easily adapt this technology to track eye/head movement for person in armchair.

Re:Room size (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34752204)

Why?... When I'm at my chair position then I can reach the mouse.

Re:Room size (1)

xded (1046894) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752206)

Just use optics. Kinect is just a LIDAR, no reason why the thing couldn't be adapted for different ranges (except for price, maybe).

Actually I'm quite surprised nobody has already tired it. But I often foget this is the digital era, things are now done just by pushing buttons...

Re:Room size (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752522)

It was kind of tried with touch screens but ruled out because it was too uncomfortable [wikipedia.org] . Removing the need for physical contact with the screen might alleviate the problem (you at least have some dynamic range of movement and holding your hands closer to your body probably reduces the effect) but I can't imagine it will completely rule it out. For short, fun applications like games this is fine, you can always take a break if it becomes a problem. I can't imagine wanting to work at such a system for 8 hours, but it might have uses in presentations (freeing you up from carrying around a wireless keyboard/remote) or in public terminals (where it's desirable not to have to touch the same input device as several hundred others have that day).

Re:Room size (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34758132)

One thing that the Kinect already does, though, is adapt for the size of the person doing the gestures. It sees my son's reach as equivalent to my own, even though I have three feet on him. This would seem to lend towards more comfort from the 'one-size-fits-all' perspective wherein it is actually true.

Re:Room size (1)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | more than 3 years ago | (#34834214)

It would also open up possibilities for a toilet computer (Pleestation, for the dutch). No way I would want to have a computer there that you'd have to touch, but a touchless interface would be possible (althoug undesirable).
btw: I am not responsible for all the twitterers who would describe every detail of the process:
Starting to poop
Halfway there
Ah, done
grabbing first piece of toilet paper
Need another one
This paper is almost clean
Grabbing another one
Yaay, completely clean
Pulling up pants
Shit broke my nail while buttoning pants
(omitted the step of adding spelling and grammar errors for sanity reasons, although there may be some)

Re:Room size (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#34754982)

Really? are you stupid or trolling? DO you think they wouldn't make changes for closer use?

gah, you people piss me off.

Re:Room size (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#34771870)

"As interesting as a Kinect-style device for my PC sounds, it just ain't gonna work. You need a room about 4 times the size of my living room to use the things."

Apart from the fact that's a gross exageration (well, unless your living room really is only 2m x 2m in size) I think the thing to realise is that Kinect needs space because it's used for full body tracking. If you just wanted a system that tracks hand and finger movement then you don't need all that space. The space requirement of Kinect is almost entirely down to the activities it allows- jumping around and moving left, right, back and forth requires space.

It really depends what the purpose of the device is, if it's just controller free gesture based navigation then the technology can be built to be practical to use at a desk.

Great (2)

Konster (252488) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750862)

This is good news, now my wrists will get a different type of workout than they normally get when I use a PC.

Porn game (3, Funny)

Octopuscabbage (1932234) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750886)

Sounds like that porn game is actually going to get developed now.

Re:Porn game (1)

Datamonstar (845886) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750990)

LOL That's the first thing I thought of. Why don't they just let us stick our dicks in it already and get it over with. er ummm... or the other, um way around in the case of um... ladies.

Re:Porn game (2)

fpgaprogrammer (1086859) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751014)

Re:Porn game (1)

Octopuscabbage (1932234) | more than 3 years ago | (#34760190)

MUST HAVE.

Re:Porn game (3, Informative)

pushing-robot (1037830) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751030)

or the other, um way around in the case of um... ladies.

It's been done, [wikipedia.org] at least in Japan (where else?)

Re:Porn game (1)

Eudial (590661) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751992)

In Batman: Arkham Asylum I think it's Harley Quinn that remarks upon the lockpick mechanism which effectively allows one to control the vibration of the controller at one's leisure with "a girl could have hours of fun with that thing."

Just sayin'

Obligatory HGG quote (5, Funny)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750896)

"For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive — you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure of course, but meant that you had to sit infuriatingly still if you wanted to keep listening to the same program."

Re:Obligatory HGG quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34751150)

+1 awesome quote

Not successful till I need no mouse (1)

vlueboy (1799360) | more than 3 years ago | (#34750926)

The tech will be handy, but until you don't need to *ask* if it's included on your next bargain PC's purchase (like we expect ballmice, and now laser mice) it will be an expensive extra purchase. Not every tech gets ported even if it IS wildly useful. Exhibit a) Smartphone Touch screens.

Re:Not successful till I need no mouse (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34758164)

So your insights are 'new technology is not automatically ubiquitous' and 'things not included are not free'?

Re:Not successful till I need no mouse (1)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | more than 3 years ago | (#34834226)

Things included are not free. You just don't have the option of not paying for them.

ASUS (1)

GarretSidzaka (1417217) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751028)

all they had to say was "teaming with asus". i am a total asus fanboy

Re:ASUS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34759462)

After Microsoft, Asus are one of my least favourite companies ever. I had an expensive graphics card from them with a 3 year warranty. The card broke after about 2.5 years, and they wouldn't replace it. In my eyes that is theft. ASUS can't be trusted with warranties. They aren't worth the paper they're written on, and I would advise anyone never to buy any of their products.

That is all.

some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751036)

i see this going two ways

1) they lock it up, so linux doesnt get it easily, i.e. most of programers hate the thing, its stays costly and without mircosofts ad budget falls flat

2)they leave it open and its awesome, tho only linux users will have a descent ui for a while followed by smart phones then macs after a few months; then windows gets it and some knock off brand makes it super cheap but then the asus will have the high quality high cost ones and get rich still and they airnt hated by everyone

Re:some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

gparent (1242548) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751180)

What kind of world do you live in where programmers hate a device because it's only supported on the OS that nearly everyone uses? And where Windows gets last priority treatment from ASUS? What the fuck?

Re:some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751634)

i should probaly explain the reasons why a bit better :/

the programmers of the first GOOD ui will be linux users because they choose power over usability and this will not be very usable till some programmers want to use it on their own systems, as anyone else programing it will be copying and pasting basic ideas from mouse and touchscreen controls and making a (very) awkward mouse mixed with a less accurate touch screen

then quickly after that apple and smart phones would copy what when well, then windows(doesn't have apples lvl of control or linux willingness to try new things)
but not because of asus because how much buzz kinect has made

BUT if they lock it up asus few piece of supported programs using it will not be worth the cost of it, and the buzz from kinect will slowly die and it will take a long time before someone makes a nice ui that doesnt come from asus

Re:some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752644)

the programmers of the first GOOD ui will be linux users because they choose power over usability

Um...usability is what makes a UI good in the first place, not power. Take *nix for example. The command line is far more 'powerful' than any of the graphical UI's, yet the latter are far more 'usable' to the average user.

You've got it backwards.

Re:some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34762060)

no a good ui comes with power and usability, just cause everyone can use it doesnt mean its any good, see: old cable boxes, and clippy

the first ui by asus will be every usable(eye candy to) but basically powerless and the first by the linux community will be powerful and un-user-friendly but the linux community has more people, more input, access to the source code to the existing ui they are building on top of, asus will not be keeping up

Re:some one connected to monoplysoft? (1)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | more than 3 years ago | (#34834262)

If they have brains, which I suspect they have, they will start with the gesture interfaces (irritating with a mouse, perfect for this), a swipe like keyboard and hotkey support (also gesture based). That will be usable.
However Asus will want to make money on the hardware and thus they will probably allow other programs to read the data. That will allow other programs to use it like a mouse and soon the thing will be integrated into screens.

predictably... (2)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751038)

Oh great, here come the 324503475234 slashbots clamoring for a "Minority Report" style user interface. (It looks cool when you see it in the movies for a minute or two, but try spending all day every day waving your arms around to browse the web and shuffle your spreadsheets. Your tired arms will be reaching for that mouse real quick.)

Re:predictably... (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751476)

it will get Americans to get some extra exercise. Everyone is gonna have better looking shoulders in no time!

Re:predictably... (1)

Machtyn (759119) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753802)

I played the Kinect for the first time the other day. My arm was good and sore, but not in the good way. In my opinion, a person needs some resistance, pressure, some sort of feedback when performing actions. I eventually picked up a Wii-mote so that I could have something to hold similar to a javelin, paddle, or whatever it was I was supposed to be holding to the play the game.

There was another ball game, place your body in front of the ball to make sure it doesn't get past you and returns to knock bales of hay or boxes off the other wall. Hit it "harder" to make the ball go faster. Um... how do you hit air harder?

I can see uses for it, but waving my arms and contorting my body to make things happen on my computer does not seem practical. Would I get one when they come out? Most probably :) I can see uses for it on an HTPC.

Re:predictably... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34754082)

The force of your swing measured by the increase in speed at which your hand,foot,bodypart approaches the sensor.

Holding something defeats the whole purpose of the Kinect, it's about not needing anything other than yourself. For fucks sake, my 2 year old can use it, enjoy it, and figure out what it means to "hit it harder".

Why does a 6 digit User here in Slashdot land not have the same mental reasoning as a TWO YEAR OLD?

Dumb ass.

Re:predictably... (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34758216)

The force of your swing measured by the increase in speed at which your hand,foot,bodypart approaches the sensor.

Holding something defeats the whole purpose of the Kinect, it's about not needing anything other than yourself. For fucks sake, my 2 year old can use it, enjoy it, and figure out what it means to "hit it harder".

Why does a 6 digit User here in Slashdot land not have the same mental reasoning as a TWO YEAR OLD?

Dumb ass.

People adapt differently to different applications of technology because a lot if it simply didn't exist when they grew up [wikipedia.org] . You'd think someone calling someone else a 'dumb ass' would know such things.

Re:predictably... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34768846)

Reply might be belated and yes I'm the same AC but your point is valid and you are correct. It was wrong of me to end my comment on such a note.

Thank you for making right of my point turned wrong because I failed to maintain decent civility just because I was so taken back by the difference of a fully functioning adult who also happened to hold a coveted UID which I mistakenly use as fodder to allow myself to assume what the parent must be capable of.

I apologize for what it's worth but I stand by my belief that anyone with a reasonable amount of math skills or at least a knack for critical thinking would be able to understand how "one hits harder" when you have nothing to hold as physical feedback.

The wonders of being born and developing your mind in an age of touch screens and Kinects, has allowed a young boy well under the typical age for school entry to instinctively understand how to interact with something like a Kinect when a presumed intelligent adult cannot ... makes one wonder what the likes of his generation will do to blow our collective minds.

Re:predictably... (1)

Machtyn (759119) | more than 3 years ago | (#34772794)

That's just it, though. Touch screens and Kinects all have feedback, a reactive force. Perhaps, though, I'm getting older and my joints don't take to the throwing motion as well as a teen or younger.

For games, maybe (4, Insightful)

saikou (211301) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751058)

And a bit of an occasional gesture.
If someone suggest the "minority report-style controls" do a simple experiment:
Stand in front of the mirror and do:
- "file moving" (grand gesture - one side to the other)
- "resizing" (grabing and stretching wide)
- "turning and button pushing" (poking at the different spots of the mirror)

Now repeat for 20 minutes. What are you saying? Your arms are kinda tired? Well duh.
Gestures without a surface to put your arms on are exhausting and hard, especially if you have to do it non-stop for a long period of time.
It may improve your physique eventually (giant strong arms, tiny legs from sitting in the chair)

Occasional gestures are fine. Say, silence alarm by "batting it away" or switch from one screen set to the other with rotational gesture. But for most activities - get a good hand rest, or touch-surface, or a mouse :)

Re:For games, maybe (1)

citizenr (871508) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752040)

Now repeat for 20 minutes. What are you saying? Your arms are kinda tired? Well duh.

Yes, is almost like playing tennis - you have to swing hard with both of your arms every 2-4 seconds, NO ONE could do it.

Re:For games, maybe (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752542)

The point is, playing tennis for 20 minutes is a good workout and should leave you feeling tired. If using your PC has the same effect, how are you going to keep that up for the remaining 7 hours at work, five days a week? In other words, exactly as GP said - fun for games and useful for occasional gestures but you wouldn't want it as your primary input device unless you rarely use the computer.

Re:For games, maybe (1)

benhattman (1258918) | more than 3 years ago | (#34767094)

Gee, I don't know. Wouldn't it be a major boon in a way. I mean, nerd obesity isn't on the same level as malaria in Africa, but the fact that computers take so little physical movement is actually a major problem with them.

Would I be able to start off at 8 hrs a day using hand gestures exclusively? Of course not, but wouldn't that transform the image of a nerd if they had the physical stamina to gesture for so long? Really, it's not so different than doing Tai Chi every day at work. If I were an employer I might view this as a way to reduce insurance premiums as well.

Re:For games, maybe (1)

fleeped (1945926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752142)

. Say, silence alarm by "batting it away"

I'd like to see how that would work with flies flying around you in the summer

Re:For games, maybe (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752786)

It would be great for media players, no more "Where did I live the remote?". Also for kioskies, no defective touch screens. There are probably a lot of other uses around, that we just didn't see yet because we don't have the (cheap) device. Maybe some of those uses are even for desktop computers, as you said, a bit of occasional gesture.

It doesn't look for me that it will be a failure. It only probably won't be on every house.

Re:For games, maybe (1)

DomHawken (1335311) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752804)

I don't care if my arms hurt or the novelty wears off pretty quickly - ever since seeing Minority Report I've wanted to control my computers like that and I _will_ buy one...

Re:For games, maybe (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 3 years ago | (#34755498)

Of course, no one ever said these "screens" couldn't also have a keyboard and a mouse and that you only do certain activities with your hands up in the air. There may be certain functionality that would be more efficient doing it in this manner. It would also make sense for presenting or for interactive learning. Just not for day to day work tasks on the computer.

I don't get it (1)

initialE (758110) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751546)

Why create a similar device when all you need are windows drivers for the existing Kinect?

Re:I don't get it (2)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751970)

I'm guessing it's because they want to sell them to people.

Cool for sims (1)

wh1pp3t (1286918) | more than 3 years ago | (#34751590)

Personally among other uses, I look forward to this replacing devices like TrackIR -- no more goofy hat or other head gear required.

Ctrl+Alt+Suppr ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34752324)

I wonder what's going to be the gesture for the Ctrl+Alt+Suppr key combination. Maybe waving a finger at the computer or mimicking a kick in the groin?

Or maybe, even better: launch it when the user does "facepalm".

Re:Ctrl+Alt+Suppr ? he means Ctrl+Alt+Del (1)

anon mouse-cow-aard (443646) | more than 3 years ago | (#34753824)

the coward is using a French keyboard... the gesture would have to be culturally sensitive. For Paris, mime (yes Mime!) rolling down the car window and cocking your head outside to yell insults...

Re:Ctrl+Alt+Suppr ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34757048)

In analogy to the three-finger gesture: simultaneous kick with both feet and one hand.

Handicap Interface? (2)

SolarStorm (991940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752896)

Just think of what this could mean to a handicapped person! Clunky interfaces can no be replaced with gestures! Having helped a couple of handicapped users, this is a dream come true.

Who would want this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34752908)

Maybe I'm missing something here so, /., please enlighten me (as I'm sure you will), but why would I want something that's harder to use than my mouse and keyboard. Seriously, I lean back almost horizontal and slide my body damn near under my desk and I'm basically laying down to do my web browsing and what-not. Why the hell would I want something that actually makes me work?

What we all really want is ROMMIE (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 3 years ago | (#34752976)

this whole gesture based interface is great but what we really want is Rommie (CR GR:ANDROMEDA) now that would get all of us going.

Metaverses / Virtual Worlds / MMORPGs (2)

Ilsundal (3288) | more than 3 years ago | (#34754950)

Could be pretty interesting for 3D interactive worlds; these type of worlds have always been far more successful on the PC. Those static/boring standing/dancing animations 3d characters currently have could be a thing of the past. Interaction between avatars could be a bit more "real" with something like this. It certainly is no "Lawnmower Man" hardware however it's an interesting step for metaverses and MMORPGs. Granted, the amount of space (if based on Kinect specs) you would need for your computer station would be enormous, but I think "the computer" really could benefit from these sort of user input technology.

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