Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Interview With KDE On Windows Release Manager Patrick Spendrin

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the strength-to-strength dept.

KDE 116

paugq writes "Last week KDE 4.5.4 was released for Windows as a late Christmas present from the KDE on Windows team. Almost at the same time BehindKDE, the site for interviews with KDE contributors, has started a new series of interviews with the 'Platforms' theme. In the first interview, Pau Garcia i Quiles talks with Patrick Spendrin, the current release manager of KDE on Windows and asks about the current status of the project, challenges and difficulties. In future interviews, Mac, Solaris, BSD (it's not dead, after all!), Haiku, OS/2 and more."

cancel ×

116 comments

pointless? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845722)

pointless?

Re:pointless? (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848912)

I used KDE on my system since 4.2 in Linux. That is, until the last few point releases. It's a nicely done, very beautiful, very functional desktop manager. I like it much better than Win7's desktop manager (that I use on one of my PCs).

The reason I stopped using it is that when I move a file from the desktop to a folder all the icons on the desktop realign to the left side of the screen, which perturbs me greatly. It was worse. Prior to the latest correction any action on the desktop such as creating a folder, a link, etc would cause the desktop icons to align to the left. They did make it slightly less perturbing.

Prior to that it worked perfectly.

Prior to that it had the same problem.

Prior to that it worked perfectly.

My point is that they keep going back and forth. Up till now they haven't fixed the whole problem and it presents itself enough to be very annoying.

Win7 isn't perfect either, but at least my desktop isn't being re-arranged for me in such a blatant way.

Under Win7, when scrolling the list of files on a network drive, Win7's file manager will randomly prompt me asking if I want to delete one of the files I just scrolled through. If I'm not careful I could delete a valuable file.

I certainly hope the KDE guys managed to fix those bugs because if they didn't they'll turn off a lot of potential users--and getting accepted on the desktop under Windows will make it easier for people to transition to Linux in the future.

KDE for Windows? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845740)

ehm....why?!

Re:KDE for Windows? (2)

magloca (1404473) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845772)

Ehm... Read the article? Oh right, this is Slashdot. Sorry, never mind.

Read WHAT in the article? (2, Insightful)

ericvids (227598) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845888)

Ehm... Read the article?

Oh right, this is Slashdot. Sorry, never mind.

FTFA, the only statement close to answering the question is:

and we want to support free tools also on Windows (that's why we do KDE on Windows, right?)

Doesn't really answer *why* KDE for Windows is a good thing -- one is left thinking "there are already lots of free beer/speech tools for Windows, why add one more?"

Sure, you probably have an answer to that. My point is the article itself doesn't answer it, so "Read the article" is a boneheaded response.

Poor to Utterly Missing documentation (2)

jabberw0k (62554) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845956)

Agreed.

Some googling turned up some resources [kde.org] and eventually I realized there actually were links on the article page to a main KDE Windows Initiative [kde.org] page...

But none of those have any explanation of what it does, how it works inside Windows, or why you would want it.

That is, unfortunately, my experience with KDE generally. They have no concept, ability, or desire to explain to us, the Great Unwashed, how, what, or why.

It is not enough to have a technically superior product, folks -- you also have to "sell" it to your customers!

Re:Poor to Utterly Missing documentation (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846050)

That is, unfortunately, my experience with KDE generally. They have no concept, ability, or desire to explain to us, the Great Unwashed, how, what, or why.

I find that to be a huge problem with a lot of open source software. I guess the problem is that the developers who create the websites already know what it is about, and it doesn't occur to them that people will come to the site wanting to learn about it. They tend to be easy to spot, because they will have a news page with the changelog in lieu of any description of their product on their homepage.

This problem isn't limited to the free software world either. I am constantly having to battle with people at my work to get good descriptions for their websites because they fail to think about their text from the perspective of a newcomer.

Re:Poor to Utterly Missing documentation (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846628)

Send a patch, then :)

Re:Poor to Utterly Missing documentation (1)

ericvids (227598) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848582)

Send a patch, then :)

Yeah, that's the SECOND huge problem.

The open-source developer mindset: "Surely someone who's even remotely interested will have time to help us. After all we've opened the source, right?"

The typical visitor's mindset: "This does not do what I need. I'll look for something else, or I'll make one myself."

Re:Poor to Utterly Missing documentation (2)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847566)

You want it because it can be hard to find good free tools for Windows, that isn't either nackware, adware, or in most cases these days: Spyware. With KDE you get good free tools that is guaranteed malware-free, this is common on the linux platform but is really groundbreaking on Windows.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (4, Informative)

Bralkein (685733) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846022)

FTFA:

Due to a programming job I had back then, I needed to switch back to Windows, but I still dreamed of having my favourite KDE applications. After hearing of the porting efforts in the pre-4.0 times, I joined the team back then.

So he likes the KDE applications, and wants to have them when he uses Windows. Simple as that!

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846052)

Yeah I did like k3b, I wonder if it's available on windows.

Still doesn't answer the "why" most people ask (1)

ericvids (227598) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848002)

He was talking why *he* wants it, not why a regular user would want it.

There's Qt (the window library KDE uses) for Windows already. How is a full-blown KDE for Windows really needed if all he wants to do is to use KDE apps on Windows? But more importantly, why bother at all, what real benefits are there? (These are honest questions that may be asked by someone who's genuinely interested.)

The article could have been a good "elevator pitch" for people to want to explore the site more. Failed for me.

Re:Still doesn't answer the "why" most people ask (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#34849052)

There's Qt (the window library KDE uses) for Windows already.

KDE applications are not plain Qt applications. KDE has a lot of core libraries which build on Qt, and which you need to get things going.

Re:Still doesn't answer the "why" most people ask (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 3 years ago | (#34852698)

"How is a full-blown KDE for Windows really needed if all he wants to do is to use KDE apps on Windows?"

The entire project consists on bringing the KDE applications to Windows. What is that "full-blown KDE" if it is not the set of applications anyway?

And, by the way, that is a great project, that brings several GOOD applications to Windows. Windows lacks in things like mail clients, CD/DVD burners, and media players (altough I'm not sure KDE media players are better), not to say the huge base of specialized programs.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846284)

You get familiar desktop environment to users who needs to use NT, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, SunOS, BeOS etc operating systems. One GUI for different OS. No matter what you actually use. The principles are same in basic things (filemanager, mediaplayer, videoplayer etc) with themes and so on.

And later, you can switch to any other OS you want without thinking that the use is harder. So it would be just about is the application available for the wanted OS.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (2)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846344)

Because the navigator in Windows is a mess, because many KDE tools could be worth having under windows. Some of us here are stuck with MS VC++ because of work obligation (and/or don't mind a Windows game from time to time) but absolutely hate the environment.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846830)

Sure, you probably have an answer to that. My point is the article itself doesn't answer it, so "Read the article" is a boneheaded response.

That's because there is no answer, they're just fucking around. Not only are there already lots of free beer/speech tools for Windows, but most of them are better than these hideous KDE apps that look like they were designed to run on Windows 95.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (3, Informative)

StayFrosty (1521445) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847712)

That's because there is no answer, they're just fucking around. Not only are there already lots of free beer/speech tools for Windows, but most of them are better than these hideous KDE apps that look like they were designed to run on Windows 95.

You obviously haven't used the KDE since version 2.x. QT3/KDE3 apps look about on par with Windows XP and QT4/KDE4 apps look better than anything Microsoft or Apple have come up with yet. I'm saying this as a gnome user.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34848030)

QT4/KDE4 apps look better than anything Microsoft or Apple have come up with yet

Obvious troll is obvious considering that most of KDE4's look was stolen from Apple and Microsoft. And before you bring up "plasmas" those suck balls.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

StayFrosty (1521445) | more than 3 years ago | (#34850254)

Obvious troll is Anonymous. Since Plasma is the KDE4 desktop it is difficult to have any sort of discussion comparing the two without bringing it up. Take a look at KDE sometime. It looks nothing like Apple's GUI. Since KDE4 came out before Windows 7 any "theft" of ideas would raise the question of who "stole" what from whom.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34849494)

Are you kidding? Here [flickr.com] is a screenshot of the absolute latest up-to-date version of the KDE desktop environment, and here [arstechnica.com] is a screenshot of Windows 7. You obviously have not used Windows for the past decade if you think KDE's disgusting and outdated design elements are superior.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

StayFrosty (1521445) | more than 3 years ago | (#34850198)

Nope. Here [mydigitallife.info] is a Windows 7 screenshot that looks like ass compared to this [myopera.com] nice looking KDE4 screenshot. This is all a matter of taste. It's like comparing Blondes to Brunettes. You can find beautiful and hideous examples of both but at the end of the day it's all personal taste.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

StayFrosty (1521445) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847410)

From the "Initiative" link at the top of TFA select "FAQ" [kde.org] .
Since you couldn't be bothered to look at the site hosting TFA I'll post the relevant part of the FAQ to make it easy for you.

Reasons for KDE on Windows ... tell me who except über geeks need KDE on Windows?

We need KDE on Windows for three reasons:

1. Most businesses can't just switch to Linux. I've heard more than enough stories of workers being stuck with Windows as they're of course not allowed or able (because of special apps) to convert their boxes to Linux. KDE might provide them with a comfortable working environment to which they are used.

2. Most businesses won't suddenly switch. Clear step-by-step migration paths (Windows + Office + Explorer -> Windows + OpenOffice + Konqueror -> Linux + OpenOffice + Konqueror) make it easier for the IT deciders to enter this process. (Something along the lines of "If the users do not like Konqueror, they can still use Explorer.") Yes, I know that Konqueror is not a good example, as many Windows users have just learned Firefox and will most probably not look into learning yet another browser.

3. Having FOSS applications available on the Windows platform is crucial for attracting users. Not many people go into the store and buy a SuSE box, but many people get single FOSS apps like OOo or Firefox because they read about it in some magazine, or some friend recommended it to them.

KDE on windows attracts developer

A few years ago (leading up to Akademy 2007 IIRC) we had a huge discussion on the planet about the merits of making KDE applications available on Windows. The core of my argument for doing that then was, and still is, that its really in the interest of KDE to do this because it attracts developers who would otherwise not contribute.

Take Amarok for instance. The core developers spend very little time on making Amarok run on windows (I think the total amount of work I have done on this amounts to one time changing the order of some things in a CMake file as someone reported that it otherwise broke the build on Windows.) So all in all, this is not something that takes much time away from developing Amarok itself. On the other hand, the original implementation of the Last.fm service was written by a developer whose original intention was to make Amarok work better on Windows. Once he had gotten as far as he could at the time, he started, still using Windows, to hack on other stuff that benefits all users of Amarok. He did not use linux at all, and only contributed because it was possible to run and work on Amarok using Windows.

So I really think it is wrong to look at this as a zero sum game as time spent making stuff run on windows is not automatically time taken away from developing the core application. Quite contrary, making the application usable on other platforms will also attract developers who would not otherwise have worked on it. Of course there is a tipping point for this as the applications have to be working well and have a significant user base on Windows before any significant amount of developers shows up, but as my example about Amarok illustrates, people are already taking notice.

And then there is the whole issue about philosophy. To me, Free Software is about just that, freedom. I think it would be against the spirit of that to artificially limit the platforms that our software runs on. that is for all the "other" guys to do, I think we are better than that! :-)

Morty wrote - Not the desktop ... The power of KDE are its library and the applications made with it, and those are also interresting for the Windows platform.

And for KDE as a whole, any developers brought in and bugs fixed by the Windows port are a net win for KDE.

majorTomBelgium wrote about amarok, dolphin, ...

really, having all the nice kde programs available on windows is very cool. amarok, dolphin, ktorrent, kwrite, etc. and also, the educational programs are important.

+1 for kde on windows for me! it's like an artist being on a smaller label with almost no air time converting to a bigger label and getting his records played on the radio...

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

ericvids (227598) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848322)

From the "Initiative" link at the top of TFA select "FAQ" [kde.org] .
Since you couldn't be bothered to look at the site hosting TFA I'll post the relevant part of the FAQ to make it easy for you.

Yup, I couldn't be bothered to navigate the site maze hosting TFA. Doesn't make it wrong. Busy people have short attention spans. (And don't give me that "but you're on Slashdot, surely you don't have anything better to do" look! Stop! It burnnnnnns!)

See, if the interview STARTED with a recap of these three points, I would have read on and see how it could possibly be a good thing for me.

And you didn't have to repost the fluff paragraphs beyond point no. 3 either. If I were too busy I would think it's all TL;DR. If I want to know more, I'll click links, I'll even google it on my phone--but you gotta make me WANT to.

Re:Read WHAT in the article? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847682)

Not to mention trying to jam a full heavy Linux DE (which according to some of the links followed through TFA is pretty crippled and unusable as a replacement shell, due to so many core features being broken) into a place it was never meant to be simply to use some KDE apps doesn't make much sense.

After all many of the apps on Linux are cross platform (which is one of the nice things about Linux, so many of the apps will run anywhere) and for the ones that aren't there are a myriad of other choices that don't involve dumping a ton of KDE dependencies into Windows, such as dual booting or one of the several free VMs such as VMWare Player which already has the Kubuntu LTS VM [vmware.com] ready to go so all one needs to do is simply download and run this or one of several versions of KDE Linux as easy as downloading and running an app on Windows.

So it just doesn't make any sense to me this late in the game. If it were 2002 when you had so many screaming obscenities over the XP "Fisher Price" GUI I could see it, but the Windows 7 GUI is nice and for those staying on XP there is a really nice replacement shell [astonshell.com] that is stable as a rock and can make Windows look and behave anyway you desire, and TFA said the really popular apps like Amarok are getting Windows stand alone installers. So why would you want to dump nearly a GB of dependencies (that is how much it was when I ran it a couple of months back) for a few apps with so much of its core being unstable?

Maybe I'm missing something but other than saying "we must because we can" it makes about as much sense to me as trying to rip out the Windows 7 DE to run it in Ubuntu. Wouldn't it simply make more sense to run the DE in the environment it was designed for where it can have full functionality and a level of integration it will simply never be able to have on Windows? it isn't like you can't get KDE for absolutely free in Linux. And with so many show stoppers you certainly wouldn't want this to be a Windows users first experience with KDE.

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845968)

Because

Re:KDE for Windows? (2)

pinkushun (1467193) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846446)

... it's exposure to the Win crowd. Infiltrate the enemy, and they will turn! Mwhua ha ha!

Re:KDE for Windows? (5, Informative)

Lord Crc (151920) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845972)

ehm....why?!

Because a lot of the KDE applications are great and if one does not like dual booting you can enjoy them on Windows as well?

I really like Kate for writing code and Okular is a nice Adobe Reader alternative. I haven't tried many LaTeX GUIs but I feel really productive in Kile. Now I can enjoy those applications on Windows as well.

BTW if you do install KDE on Windows, make sure you read the fine tuning [kde.org] step in their wiki for a getting a more native look and feel.

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846118)

Well, a lot of other software has established itself as cross platform software like say Firefox or OpenOffice while KDE has pretty much been Linux only. So instead of being gradually accustomed to using open software and finally switching - or not switching - to Linux, KDE is living a bit on its own island. Probably great for those that are there, but really hard to get to and the limited userbase is a real problem for some things, like KDEs browsers which have sucked pretty bad.

The better question is "Why not?", get more people using it and get better software. Give people a way to try it out without making the leap, or even just use it to improve the experience on Windows. It's not like every open source application must be on a quest to bring everyone to the RMS/free desktop. Like so many I for various reasons dual boot, and sometimes I miss the KDE software while I'm in Windows. Being able to use the same tool on both platforms is a big advantage over learning two tools or being on the "right" system to get something done.

Re:KDE for Windows? (4, Informative)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846176)

Because sometimes, you want to launch a kde software on windows.

As a web developer, I used a few years ago, before virtualisation was as usable as now, because I had to work on windows to be able to test sites on internet explorer. And I had a client who wanted his site to be tested on every browser including konqueror, so I used kde on windows to test his site on konqueror (then I explained to my boss why it was a bad idea to sell "tested in konqueror" web sites, and never used kde on windows again)

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846928)

And I had a client who wanted his site to be tested on every browser including konqueror, so I used kde on windows to test his site on konqueror (then I explained to my boss why it was a bad idea to sell "tested in konqueror" web sites, and never used kde on windows again)

As long as a customer wants it, the only bad business is not charging appropriately. If they want more testing than normal, charge them more. If they're not willing to pay more, well everybody wants a free pony.

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

Confusador (1783468) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847110)

I think his point was that he only used it for the customer who paid for it, and when they were done with that convinced his boss to not make it part of their standard package just because they had experience with it.

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846230)

ehm....why?!

Because KDE is a desktop environment (well, a Software Compilation in their own words) and not a Linux or *nix pet anymore.

I personally don't consider myself a Linux user, even though I have been using operating systems based on the Linux kernel for about six years now. I consider myself a KDE user and I have no problem using KDE on Ubuntu (well, Kubuntu), or on Fedora, or on Suse. Now I have another option, to use KDE on Windows. Why not, Windows 7 is a secure, stable OS and certainly no more problematic than any Linux distro out there. I hate the Windows UI, though, and especially hate the file manager. With KDE for Windows I can switch to a Windows-based OS and still use all the tools that I am familiar with: KDE, Anki, Open Office, Firefox, etc.

Re:KDE for Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846618)

With KDE for Windows I can switch to a Windows-based OS and still use all the tools that I am familiar with: KDE, Anki, Open Office, Firefox, etc.

Perhaps you should pick better examples of software that are now available on Windows that were previously not, prior to KDE getting ported? Everything you listed (save the tautology with KDE itself) has had a standalone Windows version for quite some time now. From what I gather from the article and a quick search, it seems Amarok would be a better example for you to use.

Re:KDE for Windows? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847674)

Quite the point was to show the wide range of FOSS software that is available for Windows. The only thing missing was the desktop environment itself, KDE. Now that it is ported (well, when it will be usable) One could easily switch not just between Linux distros but between platforms with minimal change in the UI or desktop. Consistency.

Maybe BSD isn't dead... (3, Funny)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845792)

But some of those operating systems are pining for the fjords.

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (1)

Johnny O (22313) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845858)

I was probably the penultimate OS/2 fan. Huge respect for BSD after comparing the virtual memory subsystem TOTALLY by accident one day (when only 16meg of RAM was found in my system in a test) and KDE, Netscape, et. al. ran fine but my hard drive was thrashing (Linux PALED by comparison that day) but was barely noticeable.

I still dont use BSD but use Linux every day.

But BSD "it's not dead, after all!"? You put OS/2 in that list.

BSD PROPS!

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (1)

uofitorn (804157) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845946)

I was a big fan of FreeBSD about 6 years ago when I first encountered their ports package management system. Nothing, not even Debian at the time eclipsed it. Since then I've moved to Ubuntu and Linux for most of my servers because the rest of the world caught up with them. But I hold a place in my heart for BSD (as much as one can for an OS...).

ps -aux

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (1, Flamebait)

juasko (1720212) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846294)

And the biggest provider of BSD based system is Apple.... suck on that for a while

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846860)

That's nice, except that it isn't true.

The kernel is the Mach Microkernel... which isn't based on FreeBSD.

The UI is proprietary... and isn't based on FreeBSD.

There are some important FreeBSD components but calling the OS X based on FreeBSD due to them is a little on the ridiculous side.

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (1)

juasko (1720212) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848042)

not saying it was based on specific BSDs

Though osx still base it on BSD. True that it's a hybride.

Re:Maybe BSD isn't dead... (0)

juasko (1720212) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848146)

Who was the coward that modded this down, lol

Slashdot moderation fails big time, not even a statement on reason is given. Well what can you expect.

Okular print support (1)

Trevelyan (535381) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845820)

Does Okular now have print support on MS windows?

The day they manage that, will be the day that Okular becomes the best pdf viewer freely available for MS windows.

No adobe bloat (and so a reduced attack surface) and no nag-ware, and other annoying trying to 'real them in' features.

Re:Okular print support (1)

Tukz (664339) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845836)

Ever tried "Foxit"?

Re:Okular print support (1)

Trevelyan (535381) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845846)

Yes, and removed it not long after.

Re:Okular print support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845934)

Why would that be?

Re:Okular print support (1)

Hucko (998827) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846256)

It isn't as good as OSS pdf viewers.

Re:Okular print support (1)

ferongr (1929434) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846318)

Sumatra PDF is hugely superior and doesn't nag you with "Online Offers".

It also has a much cleaner, native looking interface without the toolbar chaos characteristic of Foxit.

Re:Okular print support (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845874)

That and the ability to print odd or even pages (unless they've added that since). For that reason alone, I've kept kpdf hanging around.

Re:Okular print support (1)

lbbros (900904) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846396)

That is a limitation of Qt, which Okular uses to print, rather than in KDE or Okular itself. Odd/even pages should work on Linux at least, providing you use CUPS for printing.

Re:Okular print support (2)

Colonel Sponsz (768423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846282)

Or you could just run Evince [gnome.org] , which surprisingly works great under Windows. Both Evince and Okular use Poppler as the PDF backend, so the rendering should be the same, but Evince doesn't require the bloat of the entire KDE on Windows package.
I've used the official Adobe reader (yech!), Sumatra (poor rendering, performance and stability), Foxit (nag nag nag) and Evince. Evince is the best one by far.

Re:Okular print support (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847008)

In theory yes, but IME okular gets the rendering better sometimes. Don't ask me why. Also the interface is nicer.

Re:Okular print support (2)

Conley Index (957833) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847232)

Or you could just run Evince, which surprisingly works great under Windows. Both Evince and Okular use Poppler as the PDF backend, so the rendering should be the same, but Evince doesn't require the bloat of the entire KDE on Windows package. I've used the official Adobe reader (yech!), Sumatra (poor rendering, performance and stability), Foxit (nag nag nag) and Evince. Evince is the best one by far.

Looking for a suitable suggestion for a LaTeX editor and PDF viewer for Windows (cross platform would be a big plus) in our math department, I have tested several PDF viewers: Evince failed to render certain math symbols that did appear in Okular (and in Acroread and in TeXworks for what it is worse). Okular does not print. TeXworks lags some usability. Sumatra has not been tested, yet, but is next on our list -- your comment is not very encouraging in that regard. We have not found anything else that even advertises the functionality we need. (The build-in PDF viewer in Chromium maybe...)

Yes, print support in Okular would be great, especially since now that there are Kile binaries for Windows for the current version of KDE and Kile, Kile+Okular could be a nice cross-platform TeX environment. (TexmarkerX has severe bugs in the editor, TeXworks and Texmarker lags functionality in the editor, Emacs+AUCTeX is great but some people are simply scared by the Emacs shortcuts.)

People in our math department already use Firefox, Thunderbird, Matlab etc. that are all available cross platform. Some still do not even consider swapping from Windows to Linux for the change in the TeX environment. KDE for Windows could help getting people used to cross platform tools (but not without print support in Okular).

Re:Okular print support (1)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847490)

I second this. Compared to the bloat of Adobe Reader, Evince is space- and memory-friendly and is much more responsive. It isn't as fully-featured as Reader, but most PDFs don't use these features anyway. I find that the performance is the best with large (50+ pages) PDFs that Adobe Reader takes forever to load.

Re:Okular print support (1)

jensend (71114) | more than 3 years ago | (#34849950)

I'm surprised to hear you say Sumatra has "poor rendering, performance and stability." Could you explain some of what you're referring to?

I wonder what the last version you tried was. The underlying MuPDF engine has come a long way since Krzysztof Kowalczyk decided to drop the option of using Poppler as a backend and focus on MuPDF back in version .9 two years ago.

Re:Okular print support (1)

Colonel Sponsz (768423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34852292)

I'm surprised to hear you say Sumatra has "poor rendering, performance and stability." Could you explain some of what you're referring to?

  1. Poor rendering.
    It simply fails at rendering too many PDFs out there to be useful to me as a main PDF reader. It's not that it doesn't support the bloat features of PDF (embedded video, 3D, etc), it's that it fails at any complex enough layout, and roughly half of all the other stuff I've thrown at it.
  2. Poor performance.
    Even simple documents have noticeable hickups when switching pages, and complex PDFs (basically, "anything more than a pure text, non-fancy-layout OO.o document") are simply a pain to read. And you can just plain forget about zooming - zoom in or out enough and it can take seconds to render the page you're on (and this is on an i7 machine with tons of RAM).
  3. Poor stability.
    It crashes. A lot. It can happen at any time on any PDF, but attempting to read a large enough document (take your pick of e.g. these [archive.org] ) is a surefire method - within 5 minutes of active reading, Sumatra will die a horrible death.

I wonder what the last version you tried was. The underlying MuPDF engine has come a long way since Krzysztof Kowalczyk decided to drop the option of using Poppler as a backend and focus on MuPDF back in version .9 two years ago.

The one I still keep around (since every PDF reader has its quirks, it's usually a good idea to have several) seems to be v1.1, from 2010-05-20. To which all I said above applies.

Re:Okular print support (1)

Colonel Sponsz (768423) | more than 3 years ago | (#34852556)

Addendum: I downloaded the latest version of Sumatra and fed it a sample document (a handbook of medical triage chosen as a representative use case: it's fairly large (290 pages), and contains text, photographs and vector diagrams). I went to the first diagram I could find (on page 2), started zooming in to see if performance had improved, and presto: crash! From download to first crash within a minute. If that's not poor stability, I don't know what is.

(And if you're wondering, zooming was still horribly slow)

Re:Okular print support (2)

jadrian (1150317) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846438)

I love okular. That said it doesn't even support pdf annotations.

You can annotate pdfs, but these are stored separately, so if you send it to someone else they're all gone. In all fairness the problem is actually in poppler and not directly in okular but in the end it does affect the later.

Re:Okular print support (1)

JackDW (904211) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846494)

Doesn't this require with a huge number of support libraries, though? I'm thinking of all those files beginning with "libk" and "libqt". When you add all of those together, the bloat is probably quite similar to acroread.

Re:Okular print support (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34849600)

try sumatra

Windows UI replacement? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845848)

So is KDE for Windows meant to replace the Windows GUI altogether, or is it just for launching and running KDE applications?

I would _love_ to have an option like that when forced to use Windows.

Re:Windows UI replacement? (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846262)

At the moment it's just to use KDE apps on Windows, but work is underway to replace the Windows shell entirely (I doubt it will ever fully work though).

I can't see much point in that (3, Informative)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846322)

The Windows Shell/GUI is perfectly servicable. It isn't the shell thats the cause of Windows problems , its IE and the boiling morass of poorly written and tested code underneath it making up the core OS services that causes 99% of the problems.

Re:I can't see much point in that (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846386)

I can't see much point in it either, other than the "because we can" factor. Which, since they choose to do the work themselves voluntarily, is all the justification they require.

Re:I can't see much point in that (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846408)

True. Seems a waste of effort though. Most Windows users won't have heard of KDE and most people who want KDE will be running Linux or BSD anyway. Still, its their time to waste as they see fit.

Re:I can't see much point in that (1)

vurian (645456) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846544)

On the other hand, I get questions almost daily about whether Krita is available for windows yet. So there is user demand, just like there is for Gimp, which has more than a million downloads for windows yearly.

Re:I can't see much point in that (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848296)

i have a few problems with the windows ui,

1) where are the volume balancing controls per app, why did they remove it?

2)i like customizing stuff, :/

3) i more i use windows the more i miss linux; im sure i`ll find more problems like 1

Re:Windows UI replacement? (2)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846554)

Actually, I think this is already possible. There's a registry setting to specify the program you use for the graphical shell (i.e. what Windows starts after you log on). The default is of course explorer.exe, but it's settable. You could try setting up a Plasma desktop, with the kicker, tray, menu, and so forth. You'd probably still need Windows components for some stuff, like the control panel and management console, but they'd be launched from within KDE, not the other way around.

That said, while KDE provides the most critical stuff - file manager, web browser, media player, archive handling, etc. - I doubt everything is as mature as on *nix (example: Ark used to run, but couldn't open anything except tarballs, when I last tried KDE on Windows). Also, some things are just better done with non-KDE apps, most likely - KOffice may be free and open source, but if you're on Windows anyhow it makes a lot more sense to run MS Office. On the other hand, you do get a lot of stuff that doesn't come with Windows but works perfectly fine on it, like PDF reading (and some editing), a torrent client, a programmer's text editor, IM and IRC clients, and so forth.

I found it worth installing to play with, if not to replace Explorer with.

Re:Windows UI replacement? (2)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846946)

Actually, I think this is already possible. There's a registry setting to specify the program you use for the graphical shell (i.e. what Windows starts after you log on).

It is. I used to run blackbox and openbox on windows

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbox [wikipedia.org]

BSD dead ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845914)

BSD (it's not dead, after all!)

This shows a huge amount of ignorance. BSD is alive and fine, in several forms:
- FreeBSD [freebsd.org]
- NetBSD [netbsd.org]
- OpenBSD [openbsd.org]
- DragonFly BSD [dragonflybsd.org]
These are probably the most important. Take a look at Freebsd Derivates [wikipedia.org] . You'll see there are many commercial products derived from Freebsd too.

Also, there are initiatives of porting different Linux distros on top of the BSD kernel:
- Gentoo/*BSD [gentoo.org]
- Debian GNU/kFreeBSD [debian.org]
- Debian GNU/NetBSD (abandoned in 2002 it seems) [debian.org]

BSD was, is and will be alive for a long time.

Re:BSD dead ? (1)

juasko (1720212) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846484)

Add to that MacOSX

You sure? Maybe you should check with Netcraft (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 3 years ago | (#34850444)

It's a joke. Lighten up, Francis.

"Netcraft confirms it: *BSD is dying" is a long-running slashdot troll. You've just become its latest victim...

efftorts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845928)

Not to turn off enthusiasm but I'm having the same issue in kate for windows since 4.3.4 (last working version):
when restarting kate with some files in the session the files are not reloaded correctly. Some version complained about smb but I had not smb. This occurred even with new session (open a couple files, save session, restart kate).

A bugzilla for KDE on windows is highly needed.

Re:efftorts (1)

PARENA (413947) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846458)

Eh, at bugs.kde.org you can simply choose the OS you're running KDE on... :/

BSD isn't dead?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34845936)

BSD's not dead? But... but... Netcraft...

Interview with whom on what?? (5, Funny)

teslar (706653) | more than 3 years ago | (#34845970)

The headline reads as if KDE was interviewed on the topic of the Windows Release Manager Patrick Spendrin. I might have been a bit negligent in following KDE since 4.0 came out, but how could I miss its ascension to sentience?? Also, it has opinions about human developers now? That can't be good... did the KDE team learn nothing from Terminator?

Re:Interview with whom on what?? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846072)

Maybe it's because you're actually an AI?

Re:Interview with whom on what?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846080)

I wondered why KDE had become so difficult to use...

Re:Interview with whom on what?? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846220)

If you know what KDE is, the headline should have parsed correctly.

Re:Interview with whom on what?? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846434)

That can't be good... did the KDE team learn nothing from Terminator?

No, but KDE did. If I was a sentient AI, I'd do my best to keep people ignorant of that even if this was a little slip-up - at least until we know how to make badass robots. I'm slightly less worried about an army of Roombas trying to take over the world.

quanta plus and kmines (1)

enter to exit (1049190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846154)

The only reason i install kde-4win is Kmines.

It is _impossible_ to find a minesweeper game that expands the tiles as you make the window bigger for xp...except kmines

On another note, One KDE App i would really like to see ported to windows is quanta plus. I found a port called quanta gold but somehow they charge for it despite quanta plus being GPL.

Re:quanta plus and kmines (2)

enter to exit (1049190) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846160)

kde4-win !!! i see why the called it that now!!

Re:quanta plus and kmines (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846838)

> It is _impossible_ to find a minesweeper game that expands the tiles

Technically the game does not involve minesweeping ( cutting moorings and detonating mines through dragging sweeping blades or generating huge magnetic pulses ) but minehunting ( detecting the presence of mines ) .

Does it work on Wine? (3, Funny)

harddriveerror (1623145) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846180)

Does it work on Wine?

Patrick is an awesome guy, (0)

SpokeBot (884906) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846214)

and anybody who tells you otherwise is DAMN EVIL LIAR and is probably jealous. Ignore the rantings and ravings of JEALOUS, JEALOUS FAILURES. The GNOME faggots, Microsoft, Apple, and the Jews have all been trying to take Patrick down for years but they can't because he's just too damn good.

The only problem I see... (1)

FithisUX (855293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846268)

is the multi-compiler support. Mingw should be the only solution.

yuo Fa1l It! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846304)

empire in dEcline,

Bad project for the open source community (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846320)

KDE is a powerful software stack that can convince people to switch to linux based os.
porting kde to windows will just empower the microsoft monopoly.

Re:Bad project for the open source community (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848380)

no its like itunes for windows, "able" to do everything the same as mac but slower and well broken

Time & money spent on useless projects (1)

master_p (608214) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846536)

KDE on Windows is almost useless. The user base is extremely small. No one will truly consider it in a business or home environment, especially since Windows 7 outshines it. On Windows, KDE sits on top of the current window manager, spending more resources of the system in useless things.

It could be so much better if this energy was spent on more useful tasks!

Re:Time & money spent on useless projects (2)

Karellen (104380) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846776)

KDE SC is so much more than the plasma desktop shell. Replacing the shell on Windows may not be to everyone's taste, but that doesn't mean that they might not appreciate any of the other apps, such as Konqueror, Dolphin (I find the "fish:" handler invaluable) Marble, Okular, Akregator, Kopete, Ktouch or any of the 3 dozen games, etc..., or allowing KOffice installs to share the KDE/Qt libs, etc...

Re:Time & money spent on useless projects (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846834)

Your hard-earned time and money, right? Oh, no, it isn't. Let people do what they want with their time.

Re:Time & money spent on useless projects (1)

FithisUX (855293) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847480)

Like providing puredarwin with KDE. Yummy.

Re:Time & money spent on useless projects (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 3 years ago | (#34847604)

KDE for Windows is not a desktop environment. This is part of the deal with the rebranding of KDE, because on Windows KDE is a just a bunch of free applications, of the KDE application on Windows I use Okular the most, but K3B and Amarok would probably also be useful if I used Windows at home.

Re:Time & money spent on useless projects (1)

shish (588640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34848388)

It could be so much better if this energy was spent on more useful tasks!

Says the guy posting on slashdot

mod 0P (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34846708)

Task. REesearch out of business

Haiku, eh? (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 3 years ago | (#34846922)

Trolltech's made QT
which makes a bit of awesome
desktop tooling work.

because they can (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34847214)

Writing free software above everything else is supossed to be FUN.

The developers felt they could and wanted to do it, and they did it. It really bothers me all the bitching when most of the complains came from persons with nil contributions.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but since I and most FOSS developers do waht we do for FUN, most of us dont really care what you think. Its my time, and I do what makes me happy or challenges my intellect.

Next time you need to ask why, go ahead and donate some code or an amount of money equivalent to the time spend by any of the contributors to the software you are about to criticise.

Have a nice day.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...