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174 comments

'music is of such high value' (3, Insightful)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34918974)

Well, except to education budget departments, anyway. More sports!

Re:'music is of such high value' (3, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919006)

I guess Adrenaline is worth more than dopamine?

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919042)

That begs an interesting question for the bio majors here: What are the relative merits of dopamine and adrenaline? Can they even be compared, or is it apple and oranges?

Re:'music is of such high value' (4, Funny)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919078)

Those are both lame, acetycholine is clearly the superior neurotransmitter.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919198)

9 out of 10 nerve gas victims agree!

Re:'music is of such high value' (2)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919388)

However, acetycholine drugs do not make the best recreative drugs:
Antagonist make you hallucinate like a Schizophrenic, make your mouth dry, make your muscle extremely weak and they are totally devoid of euphoria see (BZ) [wikipedia.org] .
Agonist make your memory works like your life depends on it but it also give you tremors, palpitation nausea and diarrhea , but when they have a correct profile they can be enjoyable (see nicotine).

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919760)

Therfore what drug is make you writes like retard , and do you had any left?

Re:'music is of such high value' (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34920020)

Actually, you can quite easily get a nice buzz by consuming a large amount of choline. Chances are you don't have any lecithin sitting around, but eat about 6 whole eggs, and you will probably notice a significant boost in your mood. I've eaten pounds of lecithin (not all at once) over the years.

On a slightly more on topic note, try listening to music a day after using amphetamines. It will feel quite flat and meaningless. No doubt because of a lack of dopamine and/or downregulation of dopamine receptors.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1, Offtopic)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919082)

Contrary to popular belief, there are comparisons you can make between Apples and Oranges.

For instance, Oranges hold more Vitamin C.

You can go ahead and mod me off-topic, I just think its about time people stop saying you can't compare Apples and Oranges.

Re:'music is of such high value' (0, Troll)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919128)

I just think its about time people stop saying you can't compare Apples and Oranges.

Typical slashdot: You're technically correct, but linguistically useless.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919244)

Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919540)

i WAS TELLI

Sorry, I was drafting. Let's try that again.

I was telling this to my daughter the other day. "No, a dog isn't really the opposite of a cat. They're very similar. An octopus would be closer to the opposite, but they're both animals, right?

"So the opposite of a cat would be a boulder or maybe an airplane. Something totally different."

Then we snacked on apples and oranges and pedantry.

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919716)

> daughter

Dubious -- see discussion

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

VanGarrett (1269030) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919352)

Apples and Oranges share all sorts of qualities that can be compared, if you are seeking only to identify the differences between the fruits. The metaphor in question, however, is meant in contrast to comparing apples to apples, or oranges to oranges, to ascertain the quality of any given instance of the object. If you are to judge an orange's quality on the standards which you'd judge an apple's quality, then you'll have a very difficult time, indeed.

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919378)

I beg to differ. I can put a lot of vitamin C tablets in my Mac Pro.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919804)

I can put a lot of vitamin C tablets in my Mac Pro.

It isn't completely full of anti-retrovirals?

Re:'music is of such high value' (4, Informative)

hashless (1833294) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919146)

Somewhat off-topic, but you mean that it "suggests a question". "Begging the question" is proving what is not self-evident by means of itself. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question [wikipedia.org]

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919578)

Somewhat off-topic, but you mean that it "suggests a question". "Begging the question" is proving what is not self-evident by means of itself. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org]

I agree that "begging the question" is as you say in formal logic.

But, increasingly I'm convinced that there is a similar phrase "begs the question" which means "this question has to be asked", like this [thefreedictionary.com] ... more like "begs for the question". That phrase means something else, but has overlap with the formal logic one in terms of its wording.

As much as we don't always like the fact that language evolves, and the grammar nazi's among us refuse to allow things to change over time, I'm pretty sure that "begs the question" in this usage has been around for literally decades.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Nialin (570647) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919652)

Someone mod parent up, please :)

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919720)

Someone who's a fucking ignoramus - like you or the GP, most likely.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920024)

the grammar nazi's among us

I can't work out whether this was an intentional joke or just ironic. [eloquentscience.com]

:-/

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34920096)

I completely agree with your idea that language changes over time. You are more than welcome to sit back and watch as Hashless and I take back this phrase for future generations to enjoy in all of its glory.

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919872)

Not anymore it's not. Language changes. Suck it up and dial down on the pedantry next time.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919904)

Sure languages change - but not overnight and certainly not on the whim of fucktards like you.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920000)

alsdkfh prisencolinai. weliugf wefa, iugkweuytgroajlhwb alkteg.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919176)

It's not really an apt comparison. They do different things. The biggest problem with it is that adrenaline isn't something that lasts very long in the body. It gets released and used over a short period of time and it's deeply related to stress.

Dopamine and serotonin OTOH which are the other ones involved tend to be much more durable and much less prone to spikes than adrenaline is. I also don't think that what people view as a high from adrenaline is so much the adrenaline as the feeling when the stress subsides, which can be a pretty significant effect if it happens suddenly.

It's been a while since I was studying this stuff, but I think that's pretty fair.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919628)

I dunno.

I just figured Keith Richards has so many chemicals in his system back in the days of making some of my favorite music, that it just kinda came through to you from the speakers.

Come to think of it...same thing for most of the classics...Jimmy Page with Zeppelin, Hendrix, Jim Morrison with the Doors....etc.

I can now see that all of that stuff literally WAS intoxicating.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919634)

That begs an interesting question for the bio majors here

It certainly doesn't for the English or Philosophy specialists.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920028)

Sorry, you're 41 minutes late with his comment, as sibling already took care of the pedantry. Better luck next time!

Re:'music is of such high value' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919930)

news flash: we're not all students here. nor americans. details at 9

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919124)

It's not just adrenaline, it's serotonin and dopamine as well that you're referring to. Adrenaline just isn't present in the quantities necessary to explain the phenomenon without a little help from its friends.

Adrenaline itself doesn't stay in the bloodstream very long, an adrenaline rush really doesn't last very long at all.

Re:'music is of such high value' (2)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919112)

You can't WIN a concert, and that's the most important thing in life, right? Winning at any cost?

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

radtea (464814) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919306)

You can't WIN a concert, and that's the most important thing in life, right? Winning at any cost?

I have a psycho ex-g/f who once claimed to have "won" a conversation. There is nothing that a sufficiently insane person can't turn into a competition.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919442)

You can't WIN a concert, and that's the most important thing in life, right? Winning at any cost?

I have a psycho ex-g/f who once claimed to have "won" a conversation.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919700)

I have a psycho ex-g/f who once claimed to have "won" a conversation.

I think I dated her sister. Trust me, you found the more sane of the two if it was just once. ;-)

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919858)

I have a psycho ex-g/f

I used to date a schizophrenic chick. Can you believe it, she dumped me for two-timing her! I remember it well, it was on a Sunday - and the following Wednesday.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919572)

There are band competitions, so yes, you can bring ribbons home from a concert.

You can also "win" a concert. I've got two CDs at home; one's a great arrangement done okay, the other is a great arrangement done beautifully. We really "won" on the second one. We were all on our "A" game and performed a spectacular show.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919906)

I'll bet all the hot chicks in highschool were just dying to go out with you...

As somebody who never thought it was worth hurting oneself to win a GAME, I find the emphasis our culture places on sports somewhat disturbing. In Beaverton, every high school hosts "youth league" teams for kids as young as 7, grooming them to eventually play for that high school (they must be from within the high school's attendance boundaries).

Re:'music is of such high value' (4, Funny)

NonUniqueNickname (1459477) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919646)

Sometimes music is worth less than a penny, sometimes it's worth $62,500 per song.

Re:'music is of such high value' (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919942)

Remember:
Online games bad; they teach competition, team-playing, and collaboration, and violence!
Sports good; they teach competition, team-playing, collaboration, and violence!

Anonymous Coward (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34918982)

first

FIRST!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34918990)

gay

Sweear Occifer. (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 3 years ago | (#34918994)

I was just lising to the radio turned up.

Re:Sweear Occifer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919138)

Is that an opened Marvin Gaye cd in your passenger seat?

Please step out of the car, sir.

Yup (4, Interesting)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919004)

And then you have music like like mine [last.fm] (free to listen to/download, btw), which is designed to evoke imagery in people's minds. I created what I "heard" when I "saw" things, either in dreams or when using my imagination, but obviously that may differ from what other people see.

It's really interesting, seeing how radically different two different people's reaction can be to the same sound.

Re:Yup (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919050)

I think that people who visualize things like music and words are likely wired differently than the rest. It'll be interesting to see if this result can be replicated with people who don't get the chills.

Personally, I didn't used to really get work by folks like the Beatles, but as I learned and developed my ear, I got better and better at it.

When I'm really on my game, the words just poor out of me directly from my brain to the paper without me really thinking a whole lot about it.

Re:Yup (2)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919076)

There's a short story I'm currently writing in a similar way. Basically, I put "Funeralopolis" from Electric Wizard on repeat, put on my headphones, turn it up REAL loud, close my eyes, and type what I see.

Basically, I've been writing a massive battle filled with strange creatures that can't even be described as eldritch. It's been a super interesting experiment, one that I might continue once I finish the story.

Re:Yup (2, Funny)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919464)

So I just listened to the theme from "Alien" while watching a slide show of you eating tacos. I'm not sure what imagery you were trying to invoke but all I pictured was some chubby guy in headphones sitting on the toilet for hours begging God to please make it stop.

Re:Yup (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919504)

Holy crap! That's exactly what I was going for! lol, seriously though...awesome :)

Re:Yup (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919714)

Oh, and it wasn't a taco...it was some kind of chinese pastry :)

The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

Slider451 (514881) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919026)

Dead Heads and Phish Phanatics, beware! Oh, wait. You were already targeted.

Bieber Fever maniacs, look out!

Re:The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919530)

There was already some concern over i-Doser... http://www.i-doser.com/ [i-doser.com]
They claim that certain frequencies evoke certain feelings.

Re:The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

Kozz (7764) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920078)

Ironic you should mention this shortly after a post regarding placebo effect.

Re:The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919532)

As opposed to the swirlies they're used to?

Re:The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919616)

Not just jokingly, either.
There has been groups trying to crack down on binaural beat stimulants. Mainly iDoser users.
While some of the supposed beats have no known research done on them, some have had years of research done on them, and they are capable of influencing or stimulating the brain, despite the large number of skeptics. (some who had even been given the chance to use it changing their mind afterwards)
But it isn't as simple as just playing some audio to people.

People mostly use these things, thinking that you just listen to it and it works, instantly, that is completely wrong. (some are so stupid as to listen to it with speakers then moan at it not working...)
There is a mental component to getting the beats working, without it, it plain won't work unless you are of the highly suggestive mind type. (easy to hypnotise for example)
Binaural beats are a focusing technique, just like a metronome, candle, ticker, flasher or whatever else people want to use.
But we do know that certain intense, low frequencies can induce illusions in the brain, such as the "corner of the eye" cases that very often happen when you sit at certain areas near fans, engines and the like.
Those sorts of sounds are much harder to recreate with your average headset and need actual full-on audio equipment with high aural ranges and intensities.

The use of light-influencing software is lesser, it seems. Doesn't have as big a following as aural, which is strange since visual is usually much more powerful at influencing mood, light (and absence through flickering) has been known to influence minds for well over a century, probably more without documentation.
Only problem though is visual entrainment can also lead to seizures, which is a pretty bad thing.
Some train stations in Japan changed their lighting scheme to bluer lighting to induce a calming feeling in people. (no follow up has been done yet as to the rates yet, it was only completed recently i believe. )

And one thing used against any form of entrainment is that it is merely the suggestive effects of doing it that results in it, the placebo effect, whatever you want to call it. See, thing is, it doesn't matter even if it is only placebo, it still works as intended.
As always though, a lot of entrainment is through finding your own rhythm, there are programs out there that let you make your own beats, some as easy as clicking, dragging and entering some numbers, some requiring some manual editing of sound file sequences in a text editor.
If anyone has any more interest in reading up on it, the Wikipedia articles on brain entrainment have a surprisingly large number of research studies linked to it.
Brainwave Entrainment [wikipedia.org]
Binaural beats [wikipedia.org]
AVE [wikipedia.org]
Also, funnily enough, all these brain-computer interfaces that have become the rage recently are actually really useful for brainwave entrainment. More so the one developed by Emotiv Systems since it has a large number of inputs (almost comparable to an actual EEG), intended for more control rather than just being used as an auxiliary input method with 1 or 2 inputs.
Can't forget the OpenEEG Project on sourceforge [sourceforge.net] .

Re:The War on Drugs Has a New Target (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919708)

Or you could just cut to the chase and buy some mind altering drugs. A lot simpler really.

I do get drugged-like with some music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919032)

Usually it's a complex very melodic piece, which I've not heard for some time. The combination of remember it and hearing it anew leads to a feeling that is quite on par with some other less healthy ways of getting a dopamine shot.

If I hear the same thing afterwards, it doesn't work as strongly. Few weeks pass, I hear it again, dopamine again.

use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919094)

Hair splitting time....

I don't like the use of the word "intoxicating" in this sense, because it technically means the ingestion of a foreign (or TOXIC) substance to give one a feeling of euphoria. Music is a non-physical way to get your body to release dopamine.

Similarly I don't sex would be considered "intoxication" either.

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (0)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919194)

try sex while stoned. it compares favorably to sober sex

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919300)

This is slashdot... the amount of empirical data collected on either variety of coitus is quite small; not enough to draw a conclusion with a high degree of confidence.

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (2)

damien_kane (519267) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919356)

try sex while stoned. it compares favorably to sober sex

Have you ever seen a $10 bill?
Have you ever seen a $10 bill... on weed? It's the best, man!

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919534)

try sex while stoned. it compares favorably to sober sex

Have you ever seen a $10 bill?

Have you ever seen a $10 bill... on weed? It's the best, man!

DUUUUUUUUDE
He's totally facing the wrong way!
Hey! Hammy! What are you looking at? You into Lincoln or some shit? You pissed at my man Andrew? WTF why? A Jay is the MAN, man!

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919222)

Right. I think all these studies that show that show activities with emotional response X cause the corresponding neurotransmitters to flow are sort of pointless; if they didn't flow, there would be no emotional response. Mainly the findings would seem surprising to somebody who assumes emotions have no grounding in biology, i.e. they are magical. Although, I can see some value in proving you can objectively measure something that was previously subjective, or in pinning down the specific biological trigger in cases where several different ones were plausible.

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919296)

I can see the argument to be made with music(it is arugably useful to draw the distinction between states produced by exogenous psychoactives and those produced by something stimulating the production of endogenous ones); but sex might actually be an edge case...

Humans secret a vast grab bag(much of it not yet fully characterized) of assorted substances into their saliva, sweat, sexual secretions, and so forth. At least some of those substances they also almost certainly absorb through their mucus membranes and other means. It certainly isn't as entirely chemical as doing a stiff line of cocaine, or as entirely external as music; but it seems quite likely that sexual partners(with the possible exception of the real hardcore latex set) are absorbing chemicals from one another which, one suspects, may well have evolved to (among a variety of other purposes) modify partner mood/attachment/behavior.

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

BlueScreenO'Life (1813666) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919324)

I basically agree but...
<pedantry>
Music is physical - it's waves, and it comes from external, "foreign" sources. It just comes through your ears as opposed to your mouth/noise/other orifices.
</pedantry>

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

BlueScreenO'Life (1813666) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919342)

"noise"?
*nose, of course
*facepalm*

Re:use of the word "intoxicating" (1)

ctrimm (1955430) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919380)

I'd have to agree with you. This isn't intoxication at all. I think it would have been more appropriate if it said music was addicting. The release of dopamine in the mesolimbic reward pathway of the brain is what causes addictions to things like cocaine and amphetamines, why not music? I know I've enjoyed a song so much I've put it on repeat for a couple hours.

Even more clarification (5, Informative)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919480)

To further and clarify some more on your point:

1. The comparison to chemicals is misleading. There are some chemicals which are simply the brain's normal signals for stuff like "I like this", "this is fun", or basically, "ok, this is worth concentrating on, please continue doing it."

Some drugs mimic the effect of such normal brain signals, by binding to the same receptors. E.g., THC binds to the same receptors as the canabinoids in the brain, so it creates the same euphoria, without it being actually a normal signal released by the brain. (Whereas nicotine merely inhibits the production of MAO-B, an enzime which neutralizes those canabinoids, so it makes you higher by prolonging the effect of the natural ones.)

So basically it's a signal as normal as, dunno, the interrupts in a computer. You can probably find a reason to say it's wrong to simulate interrupts that never happened as part of the normal operation (e.g., wiring a front switch to the NMI trace on the mobo), but railing against a situation where they happened as intended (as this or the "OMG, games produce dopamine" hysteria) is fucking stupid.

2. Dopamine is _not_ a reward signal, so it doesn't even produce such an euphoria.

Dopamine is a motivation signal. Remember when I said that some signals basically say, "ok, this is worth concentrating on, please continue doing it"? That's what dopamine does.

Just about anything that is interesting, captivating or fun by itself is producing dopamine. It's just the brain's way of signalling, "heeyy, I like this! please continue this or stay in the current situation, as apropriate."

Even though dopamine does fire up when an unexpected reward happens (as you'd expect), and is a part of the reward and reinforcement functions, it is not itself a reward signal. It doesn't even seem to play any role in perceiving pleasure.

3. A lot of bullshit around dopamine revolves around its use by the brain in such stuff as sex, or that some stimulants like cocaine also increase dopamine, or that very high levels are associated with manias and psychosis. You just need to drop a mention of one or more of those, and everyone is already ready to lap up "OMG, addiction" bullshit.

In reality that's not very surprising. That sex would also fire up a signal that says "don't stop" when that's a reproduction (hence, natural selection) advantage, is actually as expected as it gets. If the animal were likely to just stop in the middle of sex and go "you know, this is actually quite boring, I'll go pounce on something instead", you'd soon have an evolutionary dead end. (Cue "you've met my ex?" wisecracks;) That it would fire up in conjunction with artificial reward signals, when its normal function _is_ to signal "ok, keep doing whatever gave you the reward", is again rather mundane, and rather uninteresting for its use the rest of the time. And that an abnormal level of it would lead to abnormal effects, again, is actually kind of the normal state for any hormone in the body.

4. But at the end of the day, the fact still remains that it's a signal involved in desire/drive/motivation, and in acknowledging reward/pleasure. Whether you actually subscribe to the school of thought that it does or doesn't take part in actually experiencing that pleasure, the fact remains something has to already be pleasant or interesting to cause a dopamine shot.

That some music you like or a video game or watching Star Trek or really whatever enjoyable activity produces a dopamine shot, just says that you do like it.

Just about the only kind of life that would be free from such "intoxication" would be to never experience anything pleasant or any kind of drive/desire. Also, you'd probably have Parkinson. It's not the kind of existence almost anyone actually has, nor the kind of existence anyone would want.

Well, except if it's those evil music/comics/games addicts. Then their having an existence which includes any fun is obviously eeeevil.

"Turn off the radio and drive!" (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919098)

Gawd I hope plaintiffs lawyers don't start suing drivers arguing they were "drunk on top-40 hits".

Re:"Turn off the radio and drive!" (2)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919298)

I'd think listening to top-40 hits would be more comparable to meth...

Re:"Turn off the radio and drive!" (1)

otaku244 (1804244) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919334)

I was thinking that too...
It is also quite possible that you'll need to see a doctor to get the latest Katy Perry cd :-)

Re:"Turn off the radio and drive!" (1)

Brewmeister_Z (1246424) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919886)

I wouldn't say you would be drunk from listening to Top 40 hits as much as you may need to be drunk to enjoy most Top 40 hits.

Not suprising (4, Interesting)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919132)

Don't get me wrong, it's worth researching, but it is safe to assume that anything you like doing (learning, masturbating, etc.) stimulates the production of dopamine.

One thing I read that was interesting was a Steven Pinker where he said music simulates the effect of motion on your brain. So dissonant music sounds like scary falling. Nice music makes you feel like you are being softly rocked, etc. I don't know how much that idea has been tested.

Synergy (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919332)

Also, intoxication makes music intoxicating. Some women, too. And hangover can be pretty nasty.

Re:Not suprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919822)

Pinker has some odd ideas about music, sometimes. For example, he's called music "auditory cheesecake" in the past, meaning (IIRC) that music comes as a sort of an afterproduct of having too much processesing power with too little to do in language areas of the brain. His reaching of this conclucion is a little suspect, however, as he likes to measure music production over music perception, kind of like if we measure student's abilities to write books before we bothered to learn if they could understand us when we're speaking.

I haven't heard this music==motion hypothesis before, though. I'd like to read more about it!

m!

Does the DEA know about this? (5, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919174)

I, for one, believe that the protection of our precious children from this terrible gateway drug requires firm action:

Sale of "listening paraphernalia" to those under the age of 21, or procurement of the same for those under 21 by those over, must be forbidden.

All devices, such as personal computers, that have undeniable legitimate uses, but are at risk of misuse, must have the SNR of any audio-frequency outputs capped at a value that will discourage their misuse. Electronic signal generators and DACs in the 20-20,000Hz range shall be sold only to licensed electrical engineers, with appropriate permits.

Any deliberate misuse of legal low-fidelity audio-frequency hardware in the production of "industrial" "electroglitch" or "ambient electronica" shall be a felony punishable under the Analog Waveforms Act.

The FAA shall have 180 days to draft suitable exemptions under which microphone equipped blimps, zeppelins, and gliders may be able to freely patrol our skies and hunt down illicit "jam sessions" and recording operations.

The production and importation of cheap, potent, illicit audio devices from the pacific rim shall be addressed by more aggressive customs controls, the training of op-amp sniffing dogs, and "Plan Taiwan": a collaboration between American and Taiwanese investigative and security forces to root out and destroy illicit "amp fabs" and consumer-electronics assembly labs.

In deference to tradition, the sentence for possessing an audio-device with proletarian associations, such as a "tape player" or "ghetto blaster", shall be substantially stiffer than that for possessing an overpriced Bose system.

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (3, Informative)

radtea (464814) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919366)

I, for one, believe that the protection of our precious children from this terrible gateway drug requires firm action:

If you look at the early hysteria around rock'n'roll this is pretty much what some people wanted back then. They thought rock music would lead to young people losing respect for the old, an explosion of sexual freedom, and stuff like that.

Fortunately, they were right!

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919468)

Off-topic, I now, but in regards to your sig, what is the point? Could you not say that any prison or jail of comparable size in the world also has at least one innocent person? It's also true we've released hundreds from GTMO, and many have returned to violence.

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (1)

tragedy (27079) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919998)

I would just like to interject here to point out several things:

First is that some people released from any prison after serving their sentences return to crime. Even if the crime rate among those released from prison were half that of the population at large, there would be people who would argue that prisoners should never be released because they may offend again. Eventually, unless they have a life sentence, you have to release prisoners and there's always a chance they will be back.

Second is that you're implying they "returned" to violence. Based on what I understand of the way the "illegal combatant" definition works, if they had anything on those people, they would never have been released. Unless new evidence has arisen, all there is to point to as proof that they actually had done something to be there is the fact that they're doing something now. That doesn't track for a few reasons. If you work under the assumption that they were innocent going in, you have to consider the psychological effects of years of forced deprivation on an innocent man. Most of us wouldn't really be all that calm and accepting of it. Next is the company they've been keeping during that time. It's generally considered a certainty that prisons are a great networking and indoctrination environment for criminals. It hones the criminal mind and introduces a prisoner, guilty or innocent, to all kinds of criminal contacts. Then of course there's gangs. Prisoners are often forced into joining gangs. Even those who don't actually join can find it very hard not to end up in a web of dependencies and obligations. Terrorist networks are essentially just a subset of gang, so, unless everyone is innocent _and_ the innocent don't form gangs while imprisoned to protect themselves from perceived threats (and they probably will), an innocent person sent through prison will come out with all kinds of gang or personal obligations that will be called in by people who are great friends if you toe the line, but become extremely, extremely unsympathetic if you choose to leave the fold. Then there's sudden culture shock. After years in prison, things will have changed. For Guantanamo Bay prisoners, one of those things might be their home country. Released due to lack of evidence or not, suspicion is guilt, and some of them have been released but not allowed back into their home country (or there's those who were supposed to be released, but were not because no country would take them) and, even if they are, they're released under a pall of suspicion, rejected by anyone who hates whatever group they might have belonged to, unable to find work, travel freely, etc. On the other hand, people sympathetic to the cause they were believed to belong to will treat them like heroes, even if they weren't really members. So, if it means acquiring a support network that's otherwise unavailable, then some will go that way. Not to mention that this same phenomenon can happen to the family of the prisoner while they're still incarcerated, then the group that supported their family while they were locked up has a claim on their support.

Basically, I just have a problem with the idea that, if someone who has never been proven guilty is released from prison and they commit a crime, anyone should be able to pounce on that fact and say "HA! Obviously they were guilty all along! This just proves we need longer sentences and harsher, more horrible prisons with extra rape."

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (1)

chichilalescu (1647065) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919444)

no, no, you got it all wrong. what we have to do is remove the gland that produces dopamine. or, even better, the portions of the brain that can receive dopamine (just like we remove the portions of society that receive drugs by putting them in jail).

offtopic: I wonder if this comment will turn up when I apply for jobs and stuff. oh well.
*me turns up the volume

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (1)

c++0xFF (1758032) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919668)

Finally! A way to shut down the RIAA!

Oh, wait. Nevermind. I forgot who I was talking about.

Re:Does the DEA know about this? (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919750)

The FAA shall have 180 days to draft suitable exemptions under which microphone equipped blimps, zeppelins, and gliders may be able to freely patrol our skies and hunt down illicit "jam sessions" and recording operations.

Just the other day as I walked down a neighborhood street I heard the sounds of one of these operations. Sounded like the walls were going to fall off due to all the racket. It's awful the state of things today, with these evil operations right in neighborhoods.

What kind of music? (1)

dave562 (969951) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919212)

In my experience I have found that instrumental music is the best for elevating my mood. I've been listening to Bach's violin concertos lately on the way to and from work. No matter how bad traffic might be, I cannot listen to that music and not be happy. The notes and the melody just hit the right parts of the brain to trigger those good feelings. I find that a lot of electronica music helps too. On the other hand, the typical music on the radio with lyrics and the same repetitive refrains and choruses just seem to irk me.

Re:What kind of music? (2)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919384)

've been listening to Bach's violin concertos lately on the way to and from work. No matter how bad traffic might be, I cannot listen to that music and not be happy.

You are not alone, I recently purchased a new car that came with a three month satellite radio subscription and I immediately found that driving home listening to the symphony channel was INSANELY relaxing.

Now you tell me! (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919268)

So... my parents were right about the evils of listening to that Rock'n'Roll after all?

Yeah, OK, but ... (1)

jopet (538074) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919282)

why does music have that effect? It's nice to have science approve scientifically of what everyone already knew from experience for thousands of years, but it would be even nicer if science would finally tell us what makes us so crazy about music, or to put it in their terms, why music does stimulate the dopamine flow.

Re:Yeah, OK, but ... (1)

Beerdood (1451859) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919594)

Well for starters, it's great for combining with just about everything else that's fun. Unless you're working at something that requires extremely high levels of concentration, music pretty much combines with almost any other activity you can think of. Maybe because the music is integrated so well into all the other fun things we do, we automatically associate it with a happy feeling more than a lot of other activities.

Pipe organ (1)

mdsolar (1045926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919314)

While the speaker towers at a rock concert can give a very visceral musical experience, to me, the most effective whole body musical experience comes from standing close to a pipe organ in the midst of a large chorus. Mozart's Requiem is a good choice.

Re:Pipe organ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919836)

That's because pipe organs go down to 10 Hz, so that you feel the music you don't hear.

Re:Pipe organ (2)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920030)

My organ goes down to 11.

Re:Pipe organ (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920108)

With a pipe organ, the whole building is part of the instrument. I'd like to conduct a world-wide search for the best church in which to listen to Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, the definitive work for the organ. Too bad E. Power Biggs is no longer around to play it.

That still doesn't explain (1)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919350)

Why people like Justin Bieber

Re:That still doesn't explain (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#34920062)

It's because he looks exactly like Donny Osmond, only not as talented.

Music is intoxicating (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919426)

Well, that explains the attempt to treat it like contraband, and control it so rigorously. The rules make it impossible to grow yer own without having to pay somebody..

Ban Music NOW (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919496)

Kids are getting high listening to Music?

My, God... Kids listen to music in school, in your home, and even at church.

I even heard that Kids are downloading music from internet websites.

What are we going to do to put an end to this latest threat to our children?!

I hereby declare (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34919508)

the war on music.

That explains a lot... (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919696)

No wonder I feel stoned after spending a couple of hours listening to the Blue Öyster Cult.

Obligatory Futurama (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#34919980)

Nibler: You are the last hope of the universe.
Fry: So I really am important? How I feel when I'm drunk is correct?
Nibbler: Yes - except the Dave Matthews Band doesn't rock.
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