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PC Gaming Alliance's New President Talks DRM, System Requirements

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately-or-ever dept.

PC Games (Games) 163

arcticstoat writes "It's been nearly three years since the PC Gaming Alliance announced its formation at GDC 2008, promising to 'advance the PC as a worldwide gaming platform.' Since then, Activision-Blizzard has publicly left the alliance, Sony DADC – developer of the controversial SecuROM DRM software – has signed up and some people are wondering if the PCGA is really acting in the best interests of PC gamers. However, in December 2010 the alliance appointed a new president — Intel's Matt Ployhar — who's promising to make some changes. In this in-depth interview, Ployhar reveals that he wants to tempt Activision Blizzard back to the alliance, saying that 'Activision's Kotick and Blizzard's Morhaime may be more aligned with our future objectives than they may realize.' He also discusses Sony DADC's role in the alliance, and the group's stance on DRM, explaining that its research can 'really help to influence Sony DADC's and other members' awareness of key trends taking place in the PC gaming ecosystem. Given the trend of retail's diminishing presence, free-to-play, games moving towards authentication, game streaming and so on, it's really hard to divine where DRM solutions fit into this equation in the future.'"

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1st post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950566)

It's FRIIIIIIDAY! XD

Re:1st post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950586)

Good job. But what's the point without some GNAA trolling?

Re:1st post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950600)

It may be friday, but evil never rests. Even on fridays evil videogame makers scheme to put DRM on my computer. By the way, my Nvidia gfx card just fried yesterday :(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Re:1st post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950860)

sorry about that, dude.

time for some NetHack?

Re:1st post (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951452)

I hope you have an old Cirrus Logic or Winbond tucked away in a drawer somewhere, after all, an hour without a computer might as well be a year!

Re:1st post (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952270)

A Tseng Labs ET4000 would be much faster.

PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (4, Insightful)

Kenichi Tanaka (1168171) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950594)

Could this moron at the PC Gaming Alliance be even more vague? DRM and authentication for PC Games is a bad idea ... when they start talking about getting rid of it, then I'll listen. No wonder Sony and Blizzard left them.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (2, Informative)

Elbart (1233584) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950604)

Sony joined, not left.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34951264)

Sony joined, not left.

Ah, that makes more sense, thanks:

Could this moron at the PC Gaming Alliance be even more vague? DRM and authentication for PC Games is a bad idea ... when they start talking about getting rid of it, then I'll listen. No wonder Sony joined them.

As they would (2)

symbolset (646467) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951944)

Sony is still a believer in the Holy Grail of content providers: A DRM that consumers will embrace. Perhaps it's because they own so much content. It's also probably why they backed Mariah Carey's entry into film, "Glitter" with a three-film contract they had to back out of with $50m cash. They let their motivations guide their judgments, and they don't understand western culture.

Intel though, they should know better on several levels. Intel has enough smart people around to know that an acceptable DRM won't work for several reasons, of which here are a few:

  • It won't ever work on a technical level because of the analog hole. We're used to equipment that's HD now, but folk who pirate would take stuff that's recorded from HD which is good enough - better in some cases because a little blurring would add a lot to some HD movies.
  • And then there's the nerd problem. We like puzzles. Every new form of DRM is like an IQ test. We can't pass it by. There are so many nerds, and implementation of DRM will always be so imperfect, that it will be broken.
  • Then there's ABC problem: If Al needs to sent a secret message to Cindy across the untrusted carrier Bill he can encrypt it with Cindy's public key, Bill can carry it, and Cindy can decrypt it with her private key. This doesn't work when Bill and Cindy are the same person. They can try and work around this by making it so Cindy has no control over her equipment, but then it fails the "acceptable" test. Cindy then can't play the home movies she took herself, or stuff she downloaded that's not restricted, so she won't pay for it.
  • Then there's the end-around or "common knowledge" problem. If the message isn't a secret then it doesn't matter how well it's encrypted. Every piece of content is available now long before it's even available in a DRM'd version, to anybody who wants it, on the Internet. Perfectly encrypting it just ensures your DRM published version wasn't the public source. It doesn't prevent it from being jacked before it even was encrypted, and that hole will never close. This could be prevented by requiring that all equipment supports the DRM, but that won't be accepted. There is now, and always will be, equipment available to play open content because these are the same formats our family camcorders make of the holiday picnic - and we make content we care about too so much that we won't buy equipment that won't display it.
  • And then there's the incumbency problem. If a form of DRM were invented that defeated all of these, to succeed it would have to magically retrofit every video device ever made.
  • Then there's the real killer of DRM: the control problem. You see, DRM isn't really about monetizing content, it's about content owners being able to assert control over the content. If the technology gives them the power of control, they are insane enough to use that control in a way that prevents the DRM from being accepted, every time. They're sick, and that's why they want the control in the first place. If you give them the impossible perfect DRM tech they'll use it to ensure nobody buys that tech by asserting that control in implausibly ridiculous ways.

Intel can't win here. They should not play this game. It makes them look bad. I have an idea why they try, and it doesn't reflect well on them as individuals, as a company, nor as a brand. In almost everything else they do I have a great deal of respect for Intel, but this stupid game gives me doubts.

Get with it folks: the goal isn't to prevent people who won't pay from getting the content. You can't do that no matter how hard you try. The goal is to get all the money you can from the people who will pay. That is a goal you can achieve by being an easy place to buy the content.

Content owners should get used to the idea that most people want to pay for what they get. They are decent people. They have pride. Sell them what they want. You're not going to sell stuff to the pirates, ever. The pirate market is as lost as it ever was. Offer the content to most people in a way they can pay for it quick and easy, and they will buy it. And when their sleazy unemployed cousin offers to share the latest hit movie he downloaded on bittorrent off the neighbors open wireless they'll sneer at him - and eventually he might learn that that's not how you impress decent folk. Or keep doing what you're doing and keep making him the family hero that gets the stuff they can't get any other way. Whatever works best for you.

/end rant.

Can't analog-reconvert a video game (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952668)

It won't ever work on a technical level because of the analog hole.

The article is about video games. Video games cannot be copied through analog reconversion. What you get by camcording the screen is a playthrough, not a game.

They can try and work around this by making it so Cindy has no control over her equipment, but then it fails the "acceptable" test. Cindy then can't play the home movies she took herself

Video game consoles already fail the "acceptable" test by not allowing homebrew, yet home users by and large don't care.

There is now, and always will be, equipment available to play open content

Some video game genres, especially fighting games and the "party" games popular on Wii and other shared-screen multiplayer games, don't sell well on PCs due to the smaller size of a median desktop monitor.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (2, Insightful)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950692)

Why, exactly, is it such a bad idea?

I dislike it, but that's mostly because I'm a consumer. As a consumer, many things strike me as annoyances (or downright stupid) that are actually good business sense (or so I'm told). From the point of view of the corporate suits that actually run the gaming companies, I'm sure DRM looks very good: it protects their assets for a time (all they really need is for the DRM to last long enough for the first wave of purchases, which make the game a hit or not), it combats casual piracy, and it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling, kind of like taking an umbrella out into a tornado. Now, you may be saying, "But taking an umbrella out into a tornado is fucking stupid. It accomplishes nothing!", and you'd be right. But if the psychological effect is reassuring, you'll face a real uphill battle convincing the person to give up their security blanket. Or security umbrella, as the case may be.

From your and my point of view, DRM is stupid and annoying. It does nothing for us but annoy the hell out of us. It's rather quickly subverted, as well. But consider that the gaming companies aren't looking for a 100% reliable solution; they're just trying to recover as much of their profits as possible. I can't really begrudge them that, though I can (and do) resent it.

Is DRM doing what *they* want it to? They wouldn't keep using it, if it weren't, even if it merely gives them that warm fuzzy feeling. Does it seem stupid, useless, and a waste of money to you? Surely. But you need to look at it from their point of view, as well. I'm not saying that DRM is necessary or that it truly does increase revenues for them, but if it means that they'll pull out of the PC market without DRM, I'm at least willing to entertain the possibility of buying DRM-encumbered games. But as soon as it's on my hard drive, I download the no-cd, of course.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950774)

it's not about piracy it's about the second hand market.

if can't sell on games i've finished with then i'm one less competitor they have to deal with.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

archnme (230060) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950892)

Quite. Either way, it's certainly not in the "best interests of PC gamers."

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950914)

Ugh, yeah. Good point. The latest forms of DRM (digital distribution, in particular) are really, really nasty like that. I hate the idea of being stuck with something that I can never resell (or let a friend borrow).

That's one reason why I like gog.com. No DRM, latest patches already applied, and no physical media. Too bad that they don't have a wider selection. You can sometimes get a dozen games on gog.com for the same price as one recent hit, depending on the promotions going on at the time.

Same problem with reselling, really, but it's mitigated by the low prices and lack of DRM.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34951168)

Maybe it was just me, but having been going over gog.com's game list, the prices they're available at, and the portfolio of games I bought during my younger games (which cover the majority of the stable that gog covers), I found that I got them just as cheap, if not cheap 5+ years ago, on physical media with the full set of docs. While I certainly don't expect the docs to be included with 'bargain bin'' reissues, I do find it disappointing that I'm getting less value for my money today than I got 5+ years ago when many of those games were released, with the added loss of the physical media which has allowed me to continue playing many of those games long after the system they were originally played on was retired from day to day use.

But maybe I'm just showing my age.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952364)

I do find it disappointing that I'm getting less value for my money today than I got 5+ years ago when many of those games were released, with the added loss of the physical media which has allowed me to continue playing many of those games long after the system they were originally played on was retired from day to day use.

What you're _not_ getting is DRM that requires you to jump through hoops to play those games, even if only to have that physical media in the drive when you want to play it. If you want 'physical media' you can burn a DVD for an extra few cents cost.

And while I agree that some of the GOG games are overpriced (which is why I mostly buy during their sales) I'd doubt that many of the games were on sale for $5 when they were released 5+ years ago, espcially not with physical manuals.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952440)

Yeah, I know what you mean. But part of the "experience", I suppose, is the support and ease of digital distribution. Plus, gog.com stocks the best, most highly rated games, all in one place. That's pretty handy.

You could always go to an "abandonware" site, but gog.com is so cheap, it's almost free, anyways.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

archnme (230060) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950862)

Why, exactly, is it such a bad idea?

Because it means sacrificing long-term sales in favour of a perceived increase in short-term profitability. I can't think of any DRM scheme (barring those which use remote servers for content/functionality) which hasn't been cracked or bypassed within a couple of months of the game's release. Most sales in that initial period would be to fans and others who were anticipating the game who wouldn't want to pirate it anyway. And there will still be those who are put off from buying the game due to the inclusion of draconian DRM measures.

It doesn't matter how comfortable a concept it is to the powers that be; it's still a bad idea.

Is DRM doing what *they* want it to? They wouldn't keep using it, if it weren't, even if it merely gives them that warm fuzzy feeling.

You appear to assume that if DRM weren't doing what they expected, that they would be aware of such. If they rely upon such risible studies and statistics as those trotted out by the BSA, **AA and similar organisations then they're more likely to simply hear what they want to hear.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950998)

But even if they're only getting that warm, fuzzy feeling (which is essentially a confidence game by Sony DADC, if we're going to call a spade a spade), they're getting something by using DRM. Intangible yet existent. Would they stay in the PC market without that feeling that they're somehow proactively addressing piracy? Probably, but I'm not 100% sure. Some of them would definitely move on to consoles or pay-as-you-go MMORPG-style games (blech). I really hate the idea of leasing my game.

What do they lose by using DRM? I still haven't really seen any downside to it, from their perspective. Until you can convince them that there even is a downside, there's no hope of it ever disappearing. If you can demonstrate that 3 out of 100 gamers will avoid any DRM-encumbered title, that's something... but they'll probably just pull out a study that says the same amount of casual pirates will be frustrated by the DRM and buy a legal copy. I'm not talking about pirates who go to TBP and use bittorent -- I'm talking about the casual piracy of one non-technical user sharing his disc with another non-technical user.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34952340)

The lose business. I can't speak for everybody, but I have chosen to not buy games I normally anticipated, because of DRM. Make fun of me if you will, but my family enjoys the Sims 2. EA started putting Securom in the expansions they sold. All it took was Securom breaking all of our saves for that game, and preventing us from playing it, to make us agree to not pick up another infested title ever again. we had planned on another 3-5 titles. that is $20-50 apiece. We are one family. If others do the same, then it amounts to more lost revenue. This is why the PC game industry is waning, not for lack of consumer interest, but for lack of Content provider intelligence.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952448)

This is why the PC game industry is waning, not for lack of consumer interest, but for lack of Content provider intelligence.

That and because 90% of new games are just crappy, buggy console ports anyway. If I wanted to play a crappy console game I'd buy a console.

Most of the games I bought in the Steam sale over Christmas were from indies, because the 'big name' games were either crappy console ports or infested with DRM on top of what Steam imposes. Admittedly some of the indy games were fairly crappy too, but at 5 games for $5 I don't really care so long as they're worth an hour or two of my time.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950872)

Also where does it stop?

Lets "Authenticate" you are allowed to play this dvd, read this book, etc.

I understand they want to protect their products from been "stolen", but use other avenues like using the police and courts. I don't want to feel like I'm living in 1984 every time I want to watch/read/play something.

 

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

CProgrammer98 (240351) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950934)

I like CCP (Eve-on line)'s model - make the client free and charge monthly fee. No DRM required, and they're making a nice profit still. . Of course, this only works for MMO games and other companies in the MMO genre still shaft us by making us pay for the client (Blizzard, I'm looking at you)

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (2)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951078)

If you like Eve Online then try Allegiance.

Free to download and free to play. And it strips out all the crap and gives you combat-combat-combat.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951350)

The "crap" is what makes Eve, Eve. It's a wonderful way of keeping the city-dwellers and trolls out of the game, and as such the Eve universe benefits.

It makes more sense as a space simulator than a game, but it's still very much enjoyable. IMHO.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

wertigon (1204486) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951346)

Simple. Every game, book, movie and song thrives by being copied.

By using draconian DRM, all you do is alienating your customer base, whom sooner or later will be bitten by the DRM bug and (quite rightfully so) will say "Screw you guys!" and start playing non-DRM games or listen to non-DRM music exclusively.

Long-term, DRM means noone will give a damn about your future products. The more internet-aware we get, the more open we become of the alternatives. People WILL prefer free over DRM, and therefore DRM is doomed to fail.

Every console game is DRM (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951460)

your customer base, whom sooner or later will be bitten by the DRM bug and (quite rightfully so) will say "Screw you guys!" and start playing non-DRM games

Every console game is DRM, whether disc or download. Some genres are underrepresented on PC due to the historic association of PCs with desks. So how will fans of those genres "say 'Screw you guys!' and start playing non-DRM games"?

Re:Every console game is DRM (1)

wertigon (1204486) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951620)

But consoles are a different ballpark alltogether.

My argument is "Given a choice, people will prefer DRM-free games". If all games have DRM, then they are hardly given a choice, now are they?

Re:Every console game is DRM (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952470)

How are consoles different?

Re:Every console game is DRM (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952788)

Elbereth wrote:

How are consoles different?

Consoles differ from PCs in two main ways:

  • Consoles are generally connected to larger monitors than PCs. This allows for same-screen multiplayer. Same-screen multiplayer is far easier and cheaper than a LAN party [pineight.com] , and some genres (such as fighting games or the party games popular on Wii) depend on it.
  • Consoles require all code to have been digitally signed by the console maker, and console makers such as Sony and Nintendo have categorically refused to sign code developed by a dedicated team of individuals working out of home offices.

Unfortunately for indie developers, these two are tied: if your game is in a same-screen multiplayer genre, you must either make it for the apparently negligible [pineight.com] home theater PC market or somehow get a dedicated office and "industry experience" (which I take to mean a prior commercial title in a PC genre).

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Voyager529 (1363959) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952406)

More likely is that people will end up with an experience closely resembling my own. Before DRM, the process was generally:

-buy game.
-install game.
-play game.

It was simple, and since I had purchased the game, I was fine. Now, the process more closely resembles:

-buy game.
-install game.
-patch game.
-scour the internet for NOCD crack.
-run game.

It's become a mandatory step for virtually every non-Steam/Impulse game I've bought. What's worse is that I've now become aware of sites that host pirated games, and the steps involved in using them. Don't get me wrong, I knew they existed before in a more broad sense, but now buying a game almost invariably involves a visit to such a site. While I still purchase my music/movies/software/games as a matter of principle, plenty of people will see green pastures of free games and opt to go that route instead.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Migraineman (632203) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951728)

You refer to yourself as a "consumer." You seem perfectly willing to choke-down whatever DRM crapola Sony ant their ilk are willing to shove at you, justified by their wafer-thin argument that "it's just good business."

Try refusing to use the term "consumer," and expect to be treated as a "customer" of a company. It'll change your outlook. You are not a wallet with legs that serves at their convenience.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952214)

Why, exactly, is it such a bad idea?

Angering your paying customers with no evidence that what you're doing to anger them has benefit is always a bad idea. DRM is one reason I'm no longer into gaming. It just isn't worth the hassle.

So, if DRM is because of piracy, than piracy is costing them money. They're not getting mine any more (and I say that as someone who registered Duke Nukem 1 back in the day). There's no way in hell I'll buy ANYTHING that is encumbered with DRM.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (2, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951058)

Sony just joined because of their draconian stance on DRM. Sony LOVES DRM.

There is a standing fact; These guys HATE the players and customers. This is why the DRM is so bad that you have to pirate it to get a good gaming experience. I have actually stopped PC gaming completely. IT's not worth it anymore. Buy a game, go searching for the cracks and irate tools so I can play the damn thing without having to be connected to the internet or have the Disc in. I gave up and now travel with a DS and a PSP which is sad because I have a killer gaming laptop.

At home I now really only play Xbox360 and Wii. Games have far more immersion on a 62" plasma than the 24" monitor, I dont have to fight or wait through a 20 minute install. put in disc and play. no register on their servers, no other crap, no entering a key code. insert disc->play. PC games can easily be this way with a install option so I dont need the disc.

PC Gaming is dead to me. and all because of the PC Gaming Alliance.

Developer that console makers have rejected (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951482)

I have actually stopped PC gaming completely.

Then what do you do when you want to play a game from a developer that the console makers have rejected?

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (4, Informative)

MogNuts (97512) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951724)

Quitter.

This is not a personal attack against u. But I hate this prevailing opinion.

1) Buy from Steam or some other downloaded service. No CD required. No crack required. AND games are automatically updated in the background without user intervention

2) You can hook up a gaming PC to a TV in your living room so easy it's not even funny. It requires the purchase of one $5 cable. That's so hard!

3) 20 minute install? Easy answer. PS3 30-minute installs. And if u buy a game on Steam, once it's downloaded, it's installed. Done.

4) Key codes. Yea I'll give u that one, again unless u buy on steam.

5) Registering on servers. False. Now even console games do it. Recently I had to register to play Medal of Honor online on the console.

6) And the biggest, a point u didn't say but I want to address. "U need a $1500-2000 gaming rig or upgraded ur computer with a $500 card every year." BS. I have a C2D Duo with 2GB RAM and a 8800 GTS 512. I still run most games on max settings. And gasp u can always try playing a game at High or medium settings instead of Highest/max. You still run a resolution 2x-3x the console version so it still looks nicer. What do u think consoles run it at? 900x400 at *lowest* quality graphics settings. And nowadays I can't get over how console graphics look totally like shit. I can't even play them anymore they look so bad.

/end rant

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953004)

You can hook up a gaming PC to a TV in your living room so easy it's not even funny.

Not many PC games support this use case because very few people have connected a gaming PC to a TV. I know of Trine, the first edition of SF4 (PCs aren't getting the Super edition due to low sales), and what else?

It requires the purchase of one $5 cable.

It also requires the purchase of a gaming PC to put next to the TV, such as your Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM and a $120 video card, unless you plan to surf the web on your TV all the time.

And if u buy a game on Steam, once it's downloaded, it's installed.

Given what passes for high-speed Internet in some parts of the United States, one could take the bus to the mall, buy the game, take the bus back, and do the 30-minute PS3 install in the time it takes some games to download on Steam. That's part of why WiiWare games are no bigger than 43 MB.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

tixxit (1107127) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953248)

Consoles run at 1920x1080p; to double the resolution, you'd need a monitor w/ sqrt(2) times the horizontal & vertical pixels (ie. ~ 2715x1527). Most PC gamers I know have approximately 1080p resultion monitors, give or take, so I don't see how they could run at 2-3x the resolution. In fact, the only person I know w/ a larger resolution has a 30" monitor that cost as much as my TV and PS3 together.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

Tomji (142759) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953030)

Steam, Impulse and Desura - probably by now some further services.
Yeah, these include 3rd party DRM sometimes too but they're clearly labeled as such and can be avoided.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

nutshell42 (557890) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951402)

Is DRM worth it? It's easily cracked (although the first week of sales generally dwarfs all others, so even a few days are nice) and it punishes paying customers while the pirates are unaffected.

On the other hand no DRM seems to have a detrimental effect on sales. Point in case: Ubisoft. First they used the usual crap, then they tried DRM-free games for a while. The lesson? Well, they built the most draconian DRM regime ever devised which should tell you something.

Pirates are cheap. Many may say that they don't buy a game just because of its DRM but if you get rid of it they'll just think of something else. Too many bugs, not enough money, "testing" it for 40+ hours, they'll always find a reason.

Pirates are also lazy. Yeah, it can be cracked but piracy is a numbers game and if you have to jump through hoops for one game and not for others then it'll reduce piracy for your game.

Pirates are also vain, juvenile and really lazy. So Steam with its easy of use and achievements works great, as do systems that require you to register and log-in online for "free" DLC as well as regular patches that add functionality (so pirates want them) and break known cracks.

DRM may be necessary but with a bit of lipstick and some makeup that pig can look really good. The trick is to implement it in a form that appears to give honest buyers more value than the pirates instead of less.

Re:PC Gaming Alliance is a Joke (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951550)

Not moronic at all. This isn't about gamers, it's about game companies. The "for gamers" is just a bald faced lie, and it amazes me that anybody believes that the game companies give two shits about their paying customers, when they've shown time and again that they hold gamers in contempt.

Two decades ago we got rid of DRM by refusing to buy games that had DRM. How times change!

Intel, eh? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950628)

I'd love to ask him if he'd be willing to mandate that all new Intel chips have hardware DRM instructions despite the fact that it'd cause more gamers to move towards AMD chips, simply to test how confident he really is in DRM. I'd be willing to bet money that the answer is no.

Re:Intel, eh? (1)

game kid (805301) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950706)

AMD would just rope in the horde of Intel expats with their own DRM and say something about their new customers giving them a mandate to do so or such crap. Or maybe they'll blame the ever-nebulous Economy for it.

Pc gaming = Too hard (0, Troll)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950646)

PC games are too hard to install.

Correction: Easy to install, but making them work with my graphics card or audio card..... that's the real challenge. It's nowhere near as easy as my Atari or Commodore or Amiga where I just slide the disk in the machine, and it works, because the hardware is standardized so the programmer targeted the video/audio processors directly.

Example: I bought Wing Commander 1 for the PC from amazon. It won't work on Seven. Won't work on XP. Won't work on 98. I even downloaded DOS 6 and it still won't work (sound but no picture). ----- So after a day of frustration, I went over to lemonamiga.com on Day #2 and quickly located the version for that machine. The graphics are only 704x240 instead of 480p VGA, but it least it works.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950722)

Which is about as relevant as gameboy 1 games not working on the DS.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950732)

If you keep your PC recent you will not have issues. It is also not a good idea to install *software when you plan to use the same Windows install to play games ... or do you run 15 Programs on your console while playing on it?

But there is the tiny difference that the PC is not made for the brain dead consumers, at least not yet.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951496)

It is also not a good idea to install *software when you plan to use the same Windows install to play games ... or do you run 15 Programs on your console while playing on it?

I have 15 "channels" installed on my Wii console, yet I still play discs on it. A program not running is not supposed to affect programs that are running.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950746)

That's strange... I didn't run into any issue with Wing Commander when I installed it... twenty years ago.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

ByteSlicer (735276) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950792)

Just use dosbox...

Dosbox sux. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34951182)

DosBox sucks for games. I have "688 Attack Sub" that I would LOVE to play again and I've never got it to work. None of the online tricks worked, either.

*grumbling* No no one makes those sort of games anymore. It's all first person shooter or virtual world stuff.....

Re:Dosbox sux. (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952802)

What's not working? Dosbox usually works just fine for any game. Do you need help with the config file?

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (2)

W2k (540424) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950794)

Try something like Steam where buying and installing a game is something like four clicks (one to select the game, one to click install, one to confirm the payment information and one to start the game). They have quite a few "classic" games as well, updated to run on the latest version of Windows with sound and graphics.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951474)

installing a game is something like four clicks

Well I disagree with you and agree with C64love. Even recent games like Dead Space I can't get to run on my Windows Vista Pentium 4 machine without wasting almost a day configuring settings. And it hangs ALOT of the time. I eventually traded it in for the Nintendo console version 'cause I was sick of the hassle.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952202)

recent games

Pentium 4

Well, there's your problem.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34952740)

Well I disagree with you and agree with C64love.

No one's buying that you and C64love are not the same person, and it's just pathetic to watch you pretend otherwise.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950806)

Yeah, modern methods of transport are much to hard these days.

I tried to use my whip on my motorcar and it wouldn't work. Went back to my horse and it worked just fine!

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (2)

Sparrow1492 (1962256) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950868)

You've got to be kidding. You're really expecting a 20 year old game [wikipedia.org] to just work out of the box in 2010? If you took a console from that same era today like the Super NES [wikipedia.org] and just slid the cartridge in chances are it's not going to work first try either, because that cartridge is old and not made to play 20 years later.

If you want it to be easy, tools like DOSBox will do that. I routinely pull out the old dos games and they work like a champ, but I expect to at least take a little effort because of the age. I bet it would work for WC1 too. I put MS Virtual PC on my wife's PC and now she can run many of her XP games that don't like Vista or 7 either, so there's yet another solution.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (2)

sa1lnr (669048) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950922)

I had a similar problem. My twenty year old SNES cartridge just wouldn't work on my Wii no matter what I tried.

For your problem I would suggest:

http://www.dosbox.com/news.php?show_news=1 [dosbox.com]

I personally use:

http://dfendreloaded.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951088)

Blow on the contact...

Push harder.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

archnme (230060) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950924)

If you want to buy and play "classic" games, you'd have much more luck getting them from Good Old Games [gog.com] , since they put the work into tweaking them to work with modern machines.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950928)

Why was the Amiga version of Wing Commander easier to install? Did you run it on an old Amiga computer? If so, you could have also run the version that you had on a PC from that era. I still have a working 386 that I can install old games onto.

If you ran the Amiga game on an emulator like WinUAE, then you could do the same thing with your PC version using DOSBox. It does a pretty good job too. I have a copy of Windows 3.1 running on my Windows 7 system.

It is a bit disingenuous to say that PC games are hard to install when you are talking about one from 1990. Try a modern game. I have an exceedingly low spec gaming system, and it runs everything that I have thrown at it (on default settings). I just plug it in (or download it) and play without having to do any effort at all.

Sorry but this is a horrible example (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950956)

You are buying a game made in 1990 and trying to run it on software made in 2009, almost two decades of hardware and software changes, and you don't think there might be a problem? This would be like saying "I went and bought Battletoads but it won't work on my PS3, I can't even fit the cartridge in." That is the amount of changes you are talking, the SNES wasn't even out in North America when Wing Commander came out. You are trying to run NES era code on modern systems.

The answer, if you are actually looking for help and not just whining, is to emulate an older system. As another poster mentioned, DOSBox is what you need. DOS does not underlie modern Windows OSes and 64-bit Windows lacks the minimal NTVDM virtualization that 32-bit Windows had for it. However modern hardware is more than capable of emulating an old DOS system quite completely. DOSBox is software that does this very well. Thus if you want to run software a couple decades old, it is your answer.

So please, if you want to level criticism, keep it realistic. There are things about PC gaming to criticize. The lack of ability to run software made in 1990 natively on hardware made in 2010 is not one of them.

In fact, one can argue it is an advantage in that it can be done at all. As I noted with the Battletoads/PS3 comparison, in the console world you quickly lose the ability to run older software. If you are lucky, you get one generation of backwards compatibility. The modern consoles will run at least some of the last generation games, only for their own hardware and it isn't perfect in all cases, but you can play most Xbox games on the 360 and so on. However further back, sorry no go.

Well computers don't have that problem. You find that you can run nearly all 32-bit Windows software on current systems out of the box. For example Fallout, the original, still runs just fine on Windows 7 64-bit. Older than that won't run as is, but no problem, computers are flexible enough to emulate older (or current for that matter) versions of themselves. Break out DOSBox and you can play games written for the original 8086 and DOS 1.

It may take a bit of work (though services like GOG and Steam sell the games packaged with DOSBox and so on) but it can be done. You can, and I do, play games all the way back through the history of gaming on one computer, no special hardware needed. I can go from playing Bad Company 2 (released 2010, uses DirectX 11 and a quad core CPU) to playing Castles (released 1991, uses VGA and about a 386 max) in seconds, without a reboot or change or anything. I can span two decades (or more for that matter) of gaming in a heartbeat.

Re:Sorry but this is a horrible example (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952254)

You are buying a game made in 1990 and trying to run it on software made in 2009, almost two decades of hardware and software changes, and you don't think there might be a problem?

Uh, this is a PC game on a PC, built for a Microsoft OS running on a Microsoft OS; why should anyone expect it not to run? Microsoft has built its fortune on backwards compatibility.

And Dosbox is hardly the knight in shining armor come to save the day: it plays some games OK but others are either too slow to play or have corrupted video. Carmageddon, for example, won't run natively in Windows 7 x64, and has a corrupted display in Dosbox.

Re:Sorry but this is a horrible example (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952790)

You are buying a game made in 1990 and trying to run it on software made in 2009, almost two decades of hardware and software changes, and you don't think there might be a problem?

Uh, this is a PC game on a PC, built for a Microsoft OS running on a Microsoft OS; why should anyone expect it not to run? Microsoft has built its fortune on backwards compatibility.

There is one major exception to this:
Around the year 2000, Microsoft gave up on full DOS compatibility, in favor of a more stable and secure operating system. So it is no surprise that Wing Commander 1 does not run on XP and Win7.
Why it does not run on 98 and DOS, I can only guess. Maybe a timing issue because your computer is faster than the developers at Origin ever expected. After all, Wing Commander 1 came out when 80386 PCs were considered good machines.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

g00ey (1494205) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951142)

You can't be serious when you say that Wing Commander use 480p VGA? DOS games back in the old days used the so called "Mode 13h" which was/is a mode with 320x200 pixels resolution capable of showing 256 colors. It gives more colors than the pre-AGA Amiga screen modes but actually a lower resolution. But as other people say, WC should work with DOSbox.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (2)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951316)

It's clear someone is targeting C64love.
Nothing in his post deserved a -2 modding.

Correction: Easy to install, but making them work with my graphics card or audio card..... that's the real challenge. It's nowhere near as easy as my Atari or Commodore or Amiga where I just slide the disk in the machine, and it works, because the hardware is standardized

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951610)

What is this "targeting C64love"?

My first guess would be that this is specially crafted flamebait, primed and loaded especially for the user "commodore64love", who is now expected to "bite"? Am I right? Oooh... trolling is fun! x

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951392)

P.S.
And I agree with him. Even recent games like Dead Space I can't get to run on my Windows Vista Pentium 4 machine without wasting almost a day configuring settings. I eventually traded it in for the Nintendo console version 'cause I was sick of the hassle.

Re:Pc gaming = Too hard (1)

Isaac Remuant (1891806) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952964)

Harder than consoles? sure.
Too hard? No, not at all.

You're talking about a game pre 1995 game that had a specific requirements. If you try to install it in a OS that doesn't support it, the outcome is more than likely. The alternatives to get it running might qualify as hard depending on the user but I think it's unfair to generalize based on old games. Games target specific systems of their time. Those games are usually really easy to install on the required systems.

Delusional? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34950670)

and some people are wondering if the PCGA is really acting in the best interests of PC gamers.

What is there to wonder about? The bottom line is the bottom line, who gives a shit about the customer?

Ineffectual universal DRM (1)

LeperPuppet (1591409) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950840)

They probably have some plan for a universal DRM system that everyone is forced into using, possibly similar to Steam, but less consumer friendly.

While this would be annoying for most consumers, pirates are the only beneficiary of such a scheme, as they'll only have a single target to crack. Once they do we'll probably see a continual arms race between pirates and publishers, with gamers being locked out of software they've paid for in the crossfire. This has the potential to be a PR nightmare for the publishers and could even lead to legal problems in some jurisdictions.

Too many greedy corporate overlords.. (1)

fleeped (1945926) | more than 3 years ago | (#34950898)

.. gathering for improvement of anti-piracy schemes? Sounds like the MAFIAA to me. "Advance the PC as a worldwide gaming platform"? It already is and always has been. They probably wanted to say "Advance the profitability of all the shitty games we develop, port and outsource on the PC, try to milk customers to death and try to find new ways to fuck pirates"

DRM's place? (1)

TarMil (1623915) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951086)

it's really hard to divine where DRM solutions fit into this equation in the future.

I'll help you on this one. Nowhere.

Do we really want blizzard? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951094)

Ok, so I know they have retracted their objections to the world of starcraft mod [slashdot.org] but you have to ask if a company whose legal team is in attack mode really "gets" PC gaming. It's the mods, stupid!

Re:Do we really want blizzard? (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952518)

You're seriously asking if Blizzard "gets" PC gaming?

Maybe you've heard of the Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft franchises? They're only the best-selling games of all time on the PC.

Re:Do we really want blizzard? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952578)

You're seriously asking if Blizzard "gets" PC gaming?

Maybe you've heard of the Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft franchises? They're only the best-selling games of all time on the PC.

And yet, if you exert a chilling effect on game modding, then you're basically going to end up with the console gaming scene replicated on the PC. If one of the console manufacturers would just allow keyboard+mouse control of modern games, then the only thing left for the PC would be modding. And now, basic modding is being added into console games...

Re:Do we really want blizzard? (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952778)

So what?

Not everyone wants to mod games, and not everyone wants to use mods. PC gaming has much more than just mods. My PC can kick the shit out of any console. That means that I can play games that would never run on a console, thanks to having specs twice as good as a PS3 or Xbox 360. If a game doesn't allow modding, then so be it. That doesn't mean I won't play it, and it doesn't mean that I'm going to a console that's half the speed of my PC.

Re:Do we really want blizzard? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953210)

If a game doesn't allow modding, then so be it. That doesn't mean I won't play it, and it doesn't mean that I'm going to a console that's half the speed of my PC.

The problem with your analysis is that the market is made up of the masses, not you. If they continue to deprecate PC gaming more gamers will leave PC gaming and you'll end up basically with only console gaming. The PC is itself being deprecated in the home, especially the PC capable of playing games.

Sandy Bridge (3, Interesting)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951102)

Starting now, the DRM will be baked into the silicon.

Re:Sandy Bridge (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951866)

what good does that do when the executable is altered? nothing. as long as dev machines cost the same as normals, and with pc's scale they will, then hw drm on pc doesn't actually do much anything, provided you're willing to run altered sw.

Re:Sandy Bridge (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952296)

what good does that do when the executable is altered? nothing.

And if Intel put an encryption key in your CPU and then the game companies sell you a game that's encrypted so only your CPU can play it?

DRM hard-wired into the CPU is the only way it can really 'work'. Of course having to download a new copy of the game for every PC you want to run it on would also alienate most of the PC gamers in the world.

Spawn installation (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953104)

Of course having to download a new copy of the game for every PC you want to run it on would also alienate most of the PC gamers in the world.

PC gamers already accept having to buy a separate copy of the game for the PCs used by players 2 and 4. The last major PC game I can remember with "spawn installation" was the original Starcraft.

Re:Sandy Bridge (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953078)

as long as dev machines cost the same as normals, and with pc's scale they will

Homework-and-Facebook PCs, with an Intel GMA comparable to the GPU of the Wii or original Xbox, have scale. Gaming PCs with NVIDIA or AMD graphics, not so much.

DRM is slowly choking PC gaming (2)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951136)

It's a simple concept to grasp. DRM makes your legally bought games harder to play, more prone to fail and can potentially cripple your whole system. Pirated games have none of this. The industry needs to reverse this trend, and by reversing it I don't mean increasing it with harsher DRM schemes that only punish legitimate customers.

Re:DRM is slowly choking PC gaming (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951894)

slowly choking doesn't really show the current status of pc gaming. it's at it's highest _ever_. sales of independent games are higher than ever too(though some 'indies' are really much more organized and much more corporate than corporate pc gaming firms in late '80s).

Re:DRM is slowly choking PC gaming (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952492)

slowly choking doesn't really show the current status of pc gaming. it's at it's highest _ever_.

How much of that is down to WoW? I'm sure I read somewhere that Blizzard make more money than all the console companies combined?

Re:DRM is slowly choking PC gaming (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953282)

I'm sorry wheres your proof? I have plenty of PC games and my system isn't crippled, none of the games have failed. And pirated games do have viruses,Trojans,ad-ware. Now if i had tons of problems as you say i have i would agree with you but i don't. Your just trying to sugarcoat the reason for stealing games,its not pirating games its stealing plain and simple

So you want to "advance the PC gaming platform"? (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951152)

Here's a one step path to success: Don't devalue your own games and drive people to console gaming. It is actually that simple. Allow me to tell you how this can be achived.

1. Create menus and controls that lend themselves to the way PC games can be played and are played.
It should be a no-brainer, but it is anything but that. With more and more games you don't even only "feel" like they're cheap knockoff console ports, they very obviously are. Menus that can't be sensibly navigated with a mouse because they're made for console controllers. Controls that are harebrained at best until you somehow jury-rig a game controller into your PC. That blows twice as hard if it's a game that asks for keyboard/mouse input like a FPS or RTS game.

2. Let me resell my game or at least make it cheaper than the console version.
I can resell console games. Which in turn allows me to shave about 30-50% off the price of a game because that's what a second hand sale will net me. If the PC game isn't at least 30-50% cheaper, why should I go for the PC version? Especially if the game handles as badly as the console version, because of 1).

3. Make sure it works!
Again, should be a no-brainer, but more and more games require me to jump through more and more hoops just to play. Why does it work for Steam, GOG and Impulse?

4. Don't devalue your games with pointless DRM.
Note the pointless. DRM, as much as anyone hates it, is probably a requirement to make sure at least the "playground copying" stops being a problem. Ok. We got used to having CDs in our drives, and the consoles are even on this field. The new "be online or don't play" crap certainly puts a dent into this and again favors the console as the gaming platform of choice, because it does not feature this problem. And it is nothing but a source of problems for the customer, he doesn't really have any benefit from it.

In short, if you want to promote PC gaming, don't cripple games 'til your customer rightfully thinks he's better off with a game console.

Re:So you want to "advance the PC gaming platform" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34951270)

That's a good list, but it sounds to me like their focus is more on screwing the customer than reviving PC games.
Poorly implemented DRM, "patch after purchase", and "must be online to play alone" were the biggest hits to PC gaming. The only conversation they should be having is how to level the playing field for developers and customers alike when it comes to the PC's higher equipment costs and inconvenience compared to plug and play consoles. Not kicking off the year arguing for less connectivity and more root kit nonsense.

Re:So you want to "advance the PC gaming platform" (2)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951934)

exactly! biggest problem with pc gaming currently is that the games are built by the limitations of the console releases, so even things like levels are done so that they're possible to use in the console environment, even if on the pc you could now use a gigabyte more.

at it's infancy pc gaming kicked consoles to the curb because of the depth of gaming possible by hard discs and more memory.

Re:So you want to "advance the PC gaming platform" (2)

MorpheousMarty (1094907) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952580)

1. Create menus and controls that lend themselves to the way PC games can be played and are played.

So true, it's almost criminal the way they have blown this one. I bought Fallout New Vegas, and instantly installed a mod so more options could be on the screen at once. The default scheme was obviously made for 640x480. After a while it was clear the menus were meant to be navigated with a controller. Simple things like navigating the inventory wouldn't work correctly with arrow keys.

What saved me was that my Xbox broke and so I had 2 controllers I wanted to make use of for games like Assassin's creed and Batman which are just better with a controller. I got the usb adapter and picked up Fallout again. Like night and day. The only thing is that there is no button for quicksave, and while the Xbox controller is on, the keyboard has no effect on the game. I swear on Lucifer I will pirate the fuck out of Oblivion for charging me full price on this.

USB game controller != jury rigging (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953198)

Create menus and controls that lend themselves to the way PC games can be played and are played.

I agree, but don't cut out console-style mode entirely on the PC version. Some people have home theater PCs and prefer gamepads.

until you somehow jury-rig a game controller into your PC.

Plugging a USB game controller into a PC is hardly "jury rigging". USB game controllers have been around since 1999, and Xbox 360 wired controllers work fine with PCs. The only "jury rigging" I can think of is on PCs with few or no front USB ports, where you have to plug a 4-port hub into the PC, but consoles have been using hubs since the NES Four Score.

That's cute (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951328)

I'm a serious gamer, and have been for the past 25 years. I've played everything from text based adventures, MUDs with pseudo-ascii maps, and today's fast paced shooters. I've killed, conquered and explored from the bottom of the earth's crust to different galaxies past and future.

Yet somehow I've never heard of this PC Gaming Alliance which claims to be acting in my interest. They've never spoken to me or asked my opinion. Yet they say they represent me, the gamer.

Well you can keep your political organizations, for all they're worth. I have games to play.

Need to get out of Mom's basement more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34952678)

Need to get out of Mom's basement more?

Why do you care about this stuff at all?

Seriously. Don't you have a mortgage to pay and kids to take outside or to soccer or baseball?

Re:Need to get out of Mom's basement more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#34952726)

Nuh uh. I'll have kids when some chick steals my sperm and impregnates herself.

Re:Need to get out of Mom's basement more? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953262)

Nah, my kids are all grown up and I have plenty of cash. When I feel I have a little too much I try to lose some on the stock market, but it doesn't always work.

steam DRM is not that bad and has up sides (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#34951836)

steam DRM is not that bad and has up sides

like no need for CD's.

lets you have the game on more then 1 system

no install limits

Also

US broadband sucks for any thing that is on live like and caps make it suck even more.

Spawn installation; 7500 MB per month cap (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#34953266)

steam DRM [...] lets you have the game on more then 1 system

In single player or multiplayer mode? If I have friends over at my place, and we want to play a video game together, do Steam games support "spawn installation" over a LAN?

US broadband sucks for any thing that is on live like and caps make it suck even more.

Which is a point against Steam because redownloading a game costs against your cap, which can be as low as 7500 MB per month [wildblue.com] in some parts of the United States.

Divine DRM (1)

binkzz (779594) | more than 3 years ago | (#34952316)

I'm not sure I would define DRM as divine, to be honest.
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