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KDE Software Compilation 4.6.0 Released

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the after-much-waiting dept.

KDE 202

jrepin writes "KDE is delighted to announce its latest set of releases, providing major updates to the KDE Plasma workspaces, KDE Applications and KDE Platform. These releases, versioned 4.6, provide many new features in each of KDE's three product lines. The KDE Plasma Workspaces come with a new Activities system, which should make it easier to manage different tasks."

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202 comments

Thanks, (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026354)

but no, thanks!

My KDE 3.5.10 serves me well. No stupid Windows Vista-like menus, no bling bling. I'll wait for KDE5. Hopefully, they'll come to their senses.

Re:Thanks, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026432)

3.5.10 was great, but the session feature of Kate 4 is so very useful; I can't do without it anymore.

Re:Thanks, (1)

wolf1oo (1732258) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028066)

I run KDE 3.5.10 as well, but my Kate does have sessions so....

Re:Thanks, (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027470)

You can turn all that off really easily.

GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026366)

I was a long-time GNOME user, but now I'm proud to say that I use KDE. The GNOME project has basically died. GNOME 3 is looking less and less likely to be anything but a steaming pile of shit. Meanwhile, KDE keeps on getting better and better.

There's just no comparison these days. GNOME is irrelevant. The only real competition KDE has today is XFCE.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (2)

baka_toroi (1194359) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026408)

I don't disagree, but could you elaborate on the *why*? It's been a lot of years (like 3) since I haven't tried KDE on my desktop and it was way too unstable for me.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026524)

Well, you answer your own question, in the last 3 years, it have gotten more stable :P (and faster). As time go on, the KDE4 piler get integrated deeper into the app, so some of nepomuk promises start to appear, but they are still not as well integrated as they could be. I must admit, I use awesomeWM since many years as me WM/DE and KDE for apps. I am glad to see that KDE desktop got some good WM features since I left it like "aero snap" and activities/applications matching to manage your Window. Of course, Awesome is still better, it offer you an API and your free to do whatever you want with it without pain of recompilation. But it is nice to see a mainstream DE adopt some of the most widely used TilingWM features.

KDE apps are also more flexible. You can chop down the UI to your need, remove toolbar, menu and statusbar to keep only what matter. The consistancy of the shortcut/toolbar/config dialogs is also a big plus. It still have more power user oriented features than out of the box cool features, but if you invest the time to see what is available in the thrid level of tabs in a remote corner of the config dialog, it worth it.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (3, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026454)

I find KDE is awesome where you have a couple of 1900x1200 monitors or better but is complete overkill on a 1366x800 laptop screen. Because of this I find I tend to end up using Gnome more. I do tend to just end up running Eclipse, etc, full screen, so perhaps this is part of it as well. I just don't have the space to appreciate the pretty widgets, etc.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (3, Informative)

ustolemyname (1301665) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026538)

They did come out with a netbook shell for smaller screens.

And the new defaults seem much more space oriented - smaller taskbar size at the the bottom, thinner window decorations etc.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (0)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027484)

lol

GNOME is all about wasted space. Admittedly, KDE 4 is a little worse about this than KDE 3 (which was pretty compact, IMHO), but still better than GNOME. No matter which theme I choose, GNOME still looks ugly and takes up far more space than it ought to. It's like using Windows 95 all over again.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (3, Interesting)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026476)

Disagree. Kde is awesome in its goals and has been very ambitious in the kde 4 redesign. I love where they are going and use it every day.

However ... Its not as polished under the hood. At by that I simply mean kwin is much more finicky than metacity. I can crash kwin at will sometimes. When it does work, the display is less likely to be as smooth with or without the compositing. I'm looking forward to trying 4.6 as they say kwin's been fixed up quite a bit.

Plus, I have no hate for Gnome 3. I think I like where they are going. Its fast and seems to just focus on workflow improvements. KDE I feel like it still isn't quite there. Its very flexible, sure. But I have yet to see that flexibility pay off in such a dramatic way as gnome 3 does by default.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026640)

From what I've seen of Gnome Shell, it's even less flexible ... I hope they keep those of us with wide screens who like side panels in mind rather than restricting them to the top.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (4, Informative)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026938)

However ... Its not as polished under the hood. At by that I simply mean kwin is much more finicky than metacity. I can crash kwin at will sometimes. When it does work, the display is less likely to be as smooth with or without the compositing. I'm looking forward to trying 4.6 as they say kwin's been fixed up quite a bit.

I think there's a decent chance you're citing problems with your OS's packages or some other external cause rather than a bonafide KDE4 problem. I've been running KDE4 build from FreeBSD ports for a couple years now, and 4.3+ has been exceptionally stable for me on issues like compositing/windowing and such. There are still a few quirks/bugs that I run into once in awhile, but they aren't anywhere near serious enough for me to consider switching DE's. I'd run KDE4 simply for konsole and it's notifications subsystem alone it's that useful to me.

I think a lot really depends on your platform and how/where/when you get the packages. Maybe year or so ago, I tried out KDE4 on a Debian Lenny install and it was an absolutely brutal experience. If I hadn't had a previous very solid experience with KDE4 on FreeBSD, I might have been tempted to assume it was a KDE4 issue. I've also seen some really awful versions of things like kubuntu which don't do anything to help KDE4 reputation.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (1)

quantumphaze (1245466) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027754)

I can crash kwin at will sometimes. When it does work, the display is less likely to be as smooth with or without the compositing. I'm looking forward to trying 4.6 as they say kwin's been fixed up quite a bit.

Prepare to be disappointed. While KWin crashes are rare since the bad old days pre 4.3, it's performance leaves much to be desired. 4.6 is still slower than other WMs like OpenBox. For example: If you play Minecraft and use F11 to toggle fullscreen it takes a few seconds for KWin to do it, but OpenBox does it instantly. This is with compositing off.

I still use KWin because it integrates better than Compiz.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (1)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028306)

I can crash kwin at will sometimes.

Then file a bug report! http://bugs.kde.org [kde.org] . If you have a repeatable set of actions that can make KWin crash "on command", then TELL THEM and they'll fix it.

M.

Re:Linux becomes more and more irrelevant. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026708)

I was a long-time Linux user, but now I'm proud to say that I use OS X. Linux on the desktop has basically died. Linux is looking less and less likely to be anything but a steaming pile of shit. Meanwhile, OS X keeps on getting better and better.

There's just no comparison these days. Linux on the desktop is irrelevant. The only real competition OS X has today is Windows.

Re:Linux becomes more and more irrelevant. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026778)

Obvious troll is obvious.

Re:Linux becomes more and more irrelevant. (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026844)

Whoosh?

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026748)

The only real competition KDE has today is XFCE.

Pardon? Xfce gets released once every two years and then it's: "Well, you can edit our menu now but we couldn't get a menu editor done in those two years. Use GNOME's editor instead." (which is basically what's written in Xfce 4.8's release notes).

When Xfce 4.10 gets released in another two or so years, we'll have four SC releases in that time. Maybe Xfce has its menu editor till then but a competitive release schedule looks different.

Re:GNOME becomes more and more irrelevant. (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026810)

The only real competition KDE has today is XFCE.

KDE has a lot of nice things, but some of us just want a taskbar, a start menu and a system tray. The fancy new desktop things in KDE don't interest me all since I don't even have a desktop turned on. Same with the fancy new graphics (I like Clearlooks) and programs (I used to like Amarok, but Banshee suddenly became more attractive with KDE 4). I think it really just comes down to what you want from from your DE.

Also, GNOME 3 doesn't look bad. Of course I'm a little worried that it'll suck (there are definitely historical reasons for not trusting the GNOME devs' ideas of what's usable), but from what I've seen it could actually be pretty cool. It looks like they took a lot of ideas from Gnome-Do (a Launchy-like program), and the "minimizing distractions" idea could definitely help me out. It's impossible to say until it actually comes out though.

I'm afraid to look (3, Funny)

overshoot (39700) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026452)

Every new release of KDE is like opening a box of chocolates.

And then finding a worm in the seventh one ...

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

blind monkey 3 (773904) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026496)

Every new release of KDE is like opening a box of chocolates.

And then finding a worm in the seventh one ...

Mmmm... Chocolate coated worms!

Re:I'm afraid to look (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026796)

KDE? Fuck that shit, who wants a desktop with a smelly foot on it?

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

soloport (312487) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026874)

"KDE? Fuck that shit, who wants a desktop with a smelly foot on it?"

Um... OK, I give up. You do?

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027100)

I'm afraid you're mistaken; Gnome is the official desktop manager for foot fetishists.

KDE is for kool kids who don't kry about konstant krashes.

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028012)

but it's an actual picture of RMS's foot!

also that's gnome...

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026848)

Do we get desktop icons yet? Or do they know what I need still?

I mean, if I don't need icons, I'll go to Fluxbox.

Re:I'm afraid to look (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35028206)

we had that for a long time, I'd personally recommend using the widgets since they're a complete boon once you're used to them.

at any rate, you want to right click your desktop, click desktop settings and change the layout to folder view. You can configure it more directly after clicking apply.

Re:I'm afraid to look (3, Informative)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028346)

Do we get desktop icons yet?

  • 1) Right-click Desktop --> Folder View Settings
  • 2) Activity (on the left)
  • 3) (on the right) Type: Folder View
  • 4) OK

Been there a couple years now. M.

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

Sam36 (1065410) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028408)

Yes you could disable that desktop folder view thingy back in 4.0. I would tell you how I did it but I can't remember since it was like 2 years ago...

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026982)

If you don't like the worms, I'll trade you a crunchy frog.

Re:I'm afraid to look (1)

xhunter (552459) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027010)

It's been so long since they down-graded from deep dark fair traded eco organica cacao that I have not been able to by the full brand like I used to. MInd you, certain KDE apps I still find quite useful: konqueror, yakuake, kate, k3b, konversation etc. but I do miss the days when KDE rocked my desktop.

I'm so excited! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026490)

Yesssss! Printing parity with KDE 3.5! Finally! ...oh, wait. Damn. Maybe KDE 4.7 then.

Re:I'm so excited! (0)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026574)

Yesssss! Printing parity with KDE 3.5! Finally!

I'm much more modest than that. I just wish they would bring the kde-classic icons back. It's so frustrating trying to distinguish among equally "slick" "modern" icons.

Also, bring back konqueror. A browser that works equally well on the net as on the local file system is awesome, if only it would work well with javascript. instead of fixing Konqueror javascript they came with that POS dolphin and tried to fix the javascript issue with rekonq.

Sorry, folks, although three lefts will make a right, two worngs don't.

 

Re:I'm so excited! (1)

Baseclass (785652) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026700)

Yea, Dolphin sucks big time. I'm running KDE 4.0 and I still have Konqueror, it's just not the default file manager out of the box.

Re:I'm so excited! (1)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026758)

I tend to agree. Even though I have been using KDE since their initial 4.0 release and in that time I have somewhat warmed up to Dolphin. I really really do miss the usefulness of the old konquerer; to date that is my biggest DISAPPOINTMENT with KDE.

Re:I'm so excited! (3, Informative)

mirix (1649853) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026838)

Konqueror is still there, doesn't take much to make it default if you'd like.

That said, I run KDE 4, and I use Thunar (from XFCE) as the file manager, most of the time. I like it's simplicity, I guess.

Re:I'm so excited! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35027018)

If you have primarily used any file manager other than Konqueror with KDE 3.5, then you really aren't fit to add to the opinions about it. You either didn't understand its full potential or you didn't depend on those features daily, or both.

Pushing Konqueror into being primarily a web browser was a slap in the face for many of us. To the KDE devs that made this decision: burn in hell.

Re:I'm so excited! (4, Insightful)

bcmm (768152) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027070)

Though I greatly prefer Konqueror, I have to reluctantly agree with the present arrangement. New users get a simple, easy to use file manager, and those who know what they're doing can change the default easily.

This is actually one of the greatest things about KDE: defaults that are both sensible and not too surprising to newbies, and the ability for power-users to easily configure things pretty far from those defaults.

Re:I'm so excited! (1)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026742)

What is the big deal with printing? Install CUPS, point a browser of your choice to localhost:631 and configure away and your done.

Re:I'm so excited! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026804)

What is the big deal with printing? Install CUPS, point a browser of your choice to localhost:631 and configure away and your done.

That would get you more functionality than KDE4, sure, but it would hardly get you to KDE3 parity now would it?

Re:I'm so excited! (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027708)

What is the big deal with printing? Install CUPS, point a browser of your choice to localhost:631 and configure away and your done.

Can you get a print preview feature using that strategy?

With KDE3, I made a point of using KDE apps to print things because they all had great print preview functionality. With KDE4, that all went away as far as I can tell. Non-KDE apps have really spotty and/or inaccurate preview support, and now I end up wasting paper on messed up printouts.

Re:I'm so excited! (1)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027980)

Yes you can get a accurate print preview with KDE4 apps, eg okular while printing to a CUPS based printer. I started using KDE4 full-time with the 4.2.x branch and I don't recall print preview as an issue. Maybe you were using some apps that hadn't been ported to correctly?

Re:I'm so excited! (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028184)

Hmm, it looks like okular does have a print preview... but that doesn't help me much because PDFs are just about the only thing that almost always print as expected anyway.

From a quick check, none of konqueror, kate or gwenview seem to have it. That seems to rule out print previewing most non-PDF files with the primary KDE apps. (My pet peeve is printing web pages; it seems that every browser developer is in some kind of conspiracy to print the last text line of any web page alone on its own sheet of paper, no matter how short the page looks.)

Re:I'm so excited! (1)

aiht (1017790) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028428)

It's not exactly a print preview, but I just do my test prints to the virtual PDF printer. Quicker, uses less paper - and as you say, PDF's are fairly trustworthy with printing.

Why I prefer GNOME. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026504)

Gnome's idea is to get _out_ of your way and let you use your programs.

KDE's idea is to get _in_ your way and make you use _it_.

Plus, I can only take so many shiny blue icons. And it looks just like Windows!

Re:Why I prefer GNOME. (1)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026766)

That's total baloney. I have yet to use any kde app that has "gotten in my way".

Utterly bored of gnome (1)

Pharago (1197161) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026534)

Dont get me wrong, I *love* gnome, those guys are doing a terrific job, but I'm going to install kubuntu-desktop, let's see what all the fuzz is all about. And also because I can, I've got a little time to spare, maybe I'll stick to KDE, who knows.

Re:Utterly bored of gnome (3, Interesting)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026660)

I do that about once every 3 months, and then I remember why I always went back to Gnome. Gnome isn't flashy, but everything works, and it gets the job done.

Re:Utterly bored of gnome (1)

jhigh (657789) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027124)

Same here. I try KDE every so often because there are things about it that I really like, but I always come back to Gnome because it works. The last few times I tried KDE, it was just too damn slow. Although I really like Kmail and the other native apps, for whatever reason they run like dog crap.

Re:Utterly bored of gnome (1)

VenomousGecko (659254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027476)

I would recommend Arch Linux ( http://www.archlinux.org/ [archlinux.org] ) if you are comfortable with installing from a text interface and partitioning your HD yourself. I have found Kubuntu to be a bit rough around the edges when it comes to the KDE implementation where as Arch has been rock solid for me. Arch also is bleeding edge so you can enjoy 4.6 right now without PPA. Just a suggestion. Perhaps Arch will provide the best KDE experience since you are trying it again after being away for a while.

Re:Utterly bored of gnome (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027814)

Have to second this. Back when I ran Linux, I loved Arch. It seemed to provide for many of the benefits Gentoo claimed, with none of the drawbacks.

Wonderful - everyone should try this! (4, Informative)

Jahava (946858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026554)

This is a fantastic and welcome suite of upgrades, bugfixes, optimizations, and changes. Thank you KDE team!

For those who have forsworn KDE due to bad experiences with the 4.x line, let this be a formal request to reconsider your aversion. The initial KDE 4 releases were unusable, and this has greatly hurt their image and reputation. However, as of KDE SC 4.5, it is ready to replace other desktop environments. I promise you, to both GNOME users and KDE3.5 clingers: it is worth your time to try KDE SC 4.5 (or 4.6), and you will not be disappointed.

For a bit of history, even the KDE team understood that the early KDE4 releases were not suitable for most users. They urged those who wanted feature-complete desktops to avoid it [wikipedia.org] . Much to their own disappointment, major distributions like Ubuntu and OpenSUSE rushed to adopt it and the result was ... well, mass disappointment. The first release recommended by the KDE team as a KDE3.5 replacement was 4.2 [wikipedia.org] , which was still generally lacking but worlds better than its predecessors. Every release contained more polish, and 4.5 was (in my opinion) the milestone of a release that fully eclipses KDE 3.5 and leaves no doubt about the vision of the KDE team.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026648)

I wish they would fix the bugs quicker.
I filed a lot of bug reports for the earlier kde4.x (which is actually a lot of work) and I gave up using kde because the bugs were rarely fixed.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (4, Interesting)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026696)

Every few months I try out the 4.x line, and I always walk away disappointed. It's got so much potential, and it looks really nice, but basic things still don't function like they should. Either the plasma widgets are broken or buggy, or it can't handle basic things like auto-mounting network samba shares in Dolphin, or when it does it won't stream video over a network without downloading the files first. Just too many rough edges for my taste. The last version I tried was 4.5, and literally just ditched it a few days ago and went back to Gnome. I plan on trying it again on the 4.7 release.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (2, Interesting)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026862)

I actually miss Linux in many ways. I used it daily from 1994 (Yggdrasil linux) until 2008 or early 2009 (various distros in between but during 2007-2009, Fedora). Then I got distracted with my photography and other tasks that basically _required_ me to use Windows (no, Photoshop under Wine did NOT work well at all, and GIMP doesn't cut it for lots of reasons). I changed my dual-boot to default to booting Windows XP and eventually the linux partition disappeared entirely. If I recall my last install of linux onto a partition was when KDE 4.something was released. I do not like Gnome at all and retrofitting the distros with KDE 3.5 was too much bother -- I had (and have) more important priorities these days. I also love KDevelop and... anyway... it's a long story. Nowadays I run Windows 7 and Ubuntu in a virtual machine and am happy with the set up. I do sometimes pine for the days when I used linux almost exclusively, but my current configuration "just works". Maybe I'll install fedora on a virtual machine and check out KDE4.6... maybe it's usable again

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

Baseclass (785652) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027020)

I've since switched to GIMP but I did run Photoshop under wine perfectly for many years.
For Windows apps that you absolutely can't live without and aren't supported in wine, there are always VM apps.
I used to run Windows 2000 in qemu until I finally decided to cut the cord completely.

VM all the way (1)

zooblethorpe (686757) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027822)

I've been running Windows in a window since around 2001, and haven't booted MS software on the bare metal since. This way I get all the usability and admin goodness of whatever Linux flavor I want, while still getting to use any Windows-only software that work requires of me. And having the ability to take snapshots of the machine is quite nice -- if an install hoses something in the virtual Windows box, I just roll back to the last snapshot. Plus the VMs are portable, since they're basically files, so I can just copy the whole VM over to my laptop when I'm traveling.

Cheers,

Re:VM all the way (1)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028396)

I've been running Windows in a window since around 2001, and haven't booted MS software on the bare metal since. This way I get all the usability and admin goodness of whatever Linux flavor I want, while still getting to use any Windows-only software that work requires of me. And having the ability to take snapshots of the machine is quite nice -- if an install hoses something in the virtual Windows box, I just roll back to the last snapshot. Plus the VMs are portable, since they're basically files, so I can just copy the whole VM over to my laptop when I'm traveling.

Cheers,

Yes, you've listed several distinct advantages of the VM approach. I should have included in my initial post that I still do have Linux machines (my fileserver for example) I just don't use it as my primary desktop OS.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027830)

I've since switched to GIMP but I did run Photoshop under wine perfectly for many years.
For Windows apps that you absolutely can't live without and aren't supported in wine, there are always VM apps.
I used to run Windows 2000 in qemu until I finally decided to cut the cord completely.

Last I tried Photoshop (CS4?) under Wine it didn't work perfectly, but it's quite possible I stuffed up the installation.

Yes, having Linux as my primary OS and using VM's to run those programs I cannot live without is a perfectly valid and reasonable option. It's just that 99% of my apps require Windows so I do it the other way around now (run linux in a VM, whereas in I used to run XP in a VM under linux and have a dualboot system as well). I don't do a lot of programming these days, but when I do I use the linux VM. Similarly my (quite extensive) mySQL databases I run and maintain from within the VM. Even though the databases are a significant part of my work they still don't justify (for me) having Linux as my primary OS. Of course this is a personal choice and everyone's particular situation and requirements will vary ;)

One day my priorities are likely to change again and Linux will once again take pride of place on my desktop. Just not today

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026916)

Revisionist history at it's finest. At the release of 4.0, KDE had on their front page that it was ready to go. Then, after the big shitstorm, they say they never said this.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026988)

To me, KDE just looks so darn busy compared to Gnome. Until they change that overall aspect of design, I really don't see using KDE regularly.

I like a few KDE programs a lot, especially Kate. But the overall desktop just isn't doing it for me.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

TD-Linux (1295697) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027022)

Have you possibly tried changing a setting in KDE before?

Seriously, it's not that hard. My desktop is entirely bare, I have a vertical panel with just a task bar, tray, and clock. My plasma theme almost completely lacks gradients. Oxygen is probably least offensive in this regard - it looks great on my high dpi screen, and isn't ridiculously glassed like certain themes are.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027056)

Have you possibly tried changing a setting in KDE before?

Seriously, it's not that hard. My desktop is entirely bare, I have a vertical panel with just a task bar, tray, and clock. My plasma theme almost completely lacks gradients. Oxygen is probably least offensive in this regard - it looks great on my high dpi screen, and isn't ridiculously glassed like certain themes are.

It's not the theming so much as programs like Dophin. It seems like, for whatever reason, KDE programs have really cluttered toolbars and controls around the edges of various frames. It seems like with Gnome, there's more of a design ethos of hiding most details behind menus and configuration dialogs, whereas KDE apps seem to like putting them all in front of you on the main window. Maybe I'm over generalizing, but that's my impression anyway.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027526)

Have you even used Dolphin? It has as many toolbar icons as Nautilus does. In fact, Dolphin is like a slightly better clone of Nautilus. If you pick a theme other than ugly-ass Oxygen, it actually looks pretty decent. I, myself, use QtCurve, which has the added benefit of providing a GTK version that uses the same settings as the Qt version, so your GTK and Qt apps look as similar as they ever will.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027868)

Interesting. I'll probably give 4.6 a try once it hits Ubuntu's repositories.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35027052)

I'm sorry, I can't use any desktop environment that thinks it knows how I use the computer so well that it takes away standard functions most people use.

Just because your graphically inclined mind cant handle the MERE THOUGHT of icons on the desktop, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have them. Instead you should use our newfangled graphical bloat and obfuscation, where you can't find anything you want to do(why I can never use 7 either)

I really don't care if they are finally in or not, it's the entire attitude around such a major decision.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027550)

Dude, what's wrong with the file containment? You get icons just the same except they have a square around them. Big whoop. Get over yourself.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (2, Insightful)

lanner (107308) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027234)

Let's start with the fact that if this was a KDE message board, and I was to thoughtfully complain in any way, my message would be quietly deleted. I don't bother posting any feedback, filing bugs, or doing anything for KDE any more. KDE doesn't give a fark about it's users. The developers are writing code for themselves and some strangely distorted user-effigy they built up, but who doesn't exist.

But nevermind KDE as a Window Manager itself. What you did to apps like Amarok is a crime. Fark you. I liked that app. I used it. Then you ripped out 75% of it's functionality and replaced it with a super-crappy dumbed-down UI that crashed when you moved the window. All in the name of "cleaning up the code."

This was the same for countless other K-apps. Rip it up, replace the code so it was neat and tidy, but remove most of the features and dismiss anyone who complains about it.

Screw you KDE community.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027562)

I whole-heartedly agree about Amarok. Used to be my favorite music app back when it was a clean, but featureful clone of iTunes. Now that it's panel-mania with no discernible UI goal, I can't stand it. I really hate apps that insist on you having a playlist before you can do anything. Maybe I just want to click on a song in my collection and play it? I don't want the wikipedia entry or lyrics to load. I don't want album art. I just want to play a damn song.

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

yet-another-lobbyist (1276848) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028516)

Totally agree. I gave up on Amarok, too. It's crazy how it's bloated with all these UI features I never use. I am using bare VLC now. It's not pretty and quite barebones. The backend is a dream, plays everything. Of course, it's totally lacking DE integration, and for my taste it's a bit too barebones, but what can I do. Surprisingly, there are not too many decent linux audio players around :(

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (1)

someonestolecc (1038714) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027924)

Not sure about the community, but amarok 1 WAS the best player fullstop across all OSs even with the buggyness. Now it's just.. .. like all the rest which are missing the killer interface amarok 1 had - but unlike other stable players that are simple it's bugged out and looks complicated for the little features it has. Of course, I still use it.. but i'm sentimental :P

Re:Wonderful - everyone should try this! (4, Insightful)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028128)

For those who have forsworn KDE due to bad experiences with the 4.x line, let this be a formal request to reconsider your aversion. The initial KDE 4 releases were unusable, and this has greatly hurt their image and reputation. However, as of KDE SC 4.5, it is ready to replace other desktop environments. I promise you, to both GNOME users and KDE3.5 clingers: it is worth your time to try KDE SC 4.5 (or 4.6), and you will not be disappointed.

They said this about KDE 4.2. They were wrong.

They said this about KDE 4.3. They were wrong.

I'm sorry, but you only get so many chances. KDE has used theirs up.

I do wish they'd quit rebranding (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026570)

So KDE is now a "software compilation"? What was wrong with "desktop environment"?

Re:I do wish they'd quit rebranding (2)

jrepin (667425) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026606)

Well the problem was that KDE wasn't only the desktop anymore. The desktop was only one small part of software the hardworking contributers produced. So in the end KDE became the name of the people working on the software and if you only wan't to refer to the desktop part, now you say KDE Plasma desktop.

Re:I do wish they'd quit rebranding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35028426)

So basically instead of having a simple term to refer to it you have these needlessly verbose phrases instead.

Re:I do wish they'd quit rebranding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026630)

KDE has been a "Software Compilation" for over a year, and 2 releases now, and is the only time they've "rebranded" in the 15 year history of the project.
But I know all those changes can be hard to keep up with...

Re:I do wish they'd quit rebranding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026650)

because "desktop environment" is less than 10% of the project, so it is not a representative name for KDE as a whole anymore. KDE is kind of a Mozilla now (with less budget), it parent a lot of project, but is not a single product.

Re:I do wish they'd quit rebranding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026812)

What was wrong with "desktop environment"?

Plasma Desktop is a desktop environment. Plasma Netbook is a netbook environment, not a desktop environment. Plasma Mobile is a smartphone environment, not a desktop environment.
The Software Compilation is a compilation of applications and different work environments.

Gnome/KDE/Compiz/Emerald (1)

Securityemo (1407943) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026608)

I basically use a setup where I use many GUI apps from both KDE4 and Gnome, Emerald as the WM and avant-window-navigator as a panel. I use gnome-terminal over the KDE one (Terminal). I've tried KDE4, but my machine is too slow to run it properly, and I think Gnome just has a cleaner design - but I'm a command line sort of guy, and only fire up Nautilus to access SMB shares, so it's probable that I've missed many of KDE4's usability details. Strangely enough, I can use Compiz with effects like transparency and blur just fine.

Blargh (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026740)

I really want to love KDE 4, but it has felt so choppy for me. I'm running fairly beefy hardware, a quad core processor, mid-high end video card, plenty o' RAM, etc. I've been using 4 off-and-on since the first beta releases, and maybe I'm tainted by that, but compared side-by-side with 3.5 it's just meh.

The animated menu feels really sluggish, I usually revert to the classic menu style to feel like I can actually get to the applications I want to use.

Stop complaining and put them on the menu bar, you say? Fine. Wait -- Why the did my Menu button sitting to the left of the bar on my other monitor now? Really KDE? Really?

Where are my desktop icons? Ah, right, I'm just a Windows user. I don't get the "vision". Actually, I'll just keep my files on the desktop, thanks. You know, like GNOME, Winblowz, and OS X do. If I didn't want them there, I'd use a Tiling Window Manager.

And I am SICK OF THE GOD DAMN CASHEW! Widgets are worthless unless you have a hard-on for staring at a desktop with no applications open.

Ah, so that's why the desktop icons are gone -- more room for the useless widgets! Woohoo, a spinning globe on my desktop!

The printer manager put me in tears. It was easier just to add the damn thing from the CUPS web interface. And while I'm on the topic, the network manager blows too. I like the graph, guys, but how about making it easier to configure a wireless network? Seems like I have to do some voodoo to actually get available wireless networks to pop up. Also, a lock icon to show me the security of a wireless network is way better than the Windows-esque "Stop-light shield". Stop making me feel bad with your red shield with an X through it whenever I want to steal my neighbour's wireless connection.

Don't get me wrong, I think KDE 4 is great if you're more interested in playing with compositing and widgets than doing anything productive.

But KDE 4.6, I'll give you another chance. Please don't break my heart again

Re:Blargh (1)

mirix (1649853) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026894)

From what I remember, click on the 'cashew', select 'remove this workspace' or some such, and bingo, plain-ass desktop. Seems easier than typing all that complaint up ;-)

Re:Blargh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35026914)

u mad bro?

Re:Blargh (2)

Baseclass (785652) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026940)

I installed the "I hate the cashew" plasmoid [kde-look.org] from kde-look to remove that useless little nut.

Re:Blargh (1)

quantumphaze (1245466) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028550)

Sounds like you have an Nvidia card. The 2D and Xrender performance is really poor and I find that PowerMizer makes the sliding menu choppy only when it's at the lowest speed. It's the price you pay for working 3D.

Is it just me (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026752)

or are there a lot of comments that KDE & Gnome are dead? What are Penguins suppose to use?

Re:Is it just me (0)

korgitser (1809018) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026808)

First it was that KDE basically made it's ui a mix of vista and macos to have a selling point and rushed out of the door limping. Then adding to that some architecture astronout hogwash about semantic and an unified data store, which currently has more unstable backends than the desktop has apps. Choose one and make it work, people! I will not buy that stuff before I see kmail2, which honestly believes it can build on this (q/k)uicksand. But kmail2 is loong overdue. I bet they spend most of their time trying to straighten out, if not actually create the backends.
These days i'm a KDE user just because gnome apps fit in kde better than kde apps in gnome.

Now Gnome is all like 'we want our own plasma shell just because'. When will the linux desktop grow balls to have it's own face and identity, rather than trying to copy others? A copycat has the chance to make it number #1 only if it has the $ of microsoft. Other than that, you're just number #2 like bono.

For what I gather, the desktop metaphor is pretty much finalized, and the resulting idle hands will leave no good design standing if they can replace it with something opaque. If this trend continues we will all be using XFCE in 2013.

Re:Is it just me (1)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026816)

Well, they are not dead, but they seem to be becoming irrelevant. Consumers really like touch phones and pads and app stores, and only android seem to work well in these devices.

Xmonad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35028542)

Use Xmonad. Start what ever apps you want from an xterm or menu/dock. It is very fast and light weight. I really don't miss the 'desktop' thing.

32-bit went fine, 64-bit was a bit of a pain... (4, Interesting)

pointbeing (701902) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026782)

Don't know anyone else who's had this problem but on the 64-bit upgrade X started throwing errors about a missing session - then you clicked "okay" and KDE started normally.

Solution was in this thread - all I had to do was select KDE as a session once.

http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=91936 [kde.org]

Also, my panel lost transparency although compositing was enabled. Changing the panel theme and then changing it back solved that.

On the 32-bit netbook which has just about all unnecessary stuff turned off including akonadi KDE's memory footprint went from ~180mb to ~170mb at idle. I use compiz instead of kwin on both machines, though.

Re:32-bit went fine, 64-bit was a bit of a pain... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35027568)

I use 64 bit arch and I had no problems.
I rebooted after installation and KDM told me that KDE was no longer an available session.
I just selected "KDE Plasma Desktop" (or some such) from the session list and logged in.
Apart from that I had no warnings/errors/problems

Thoughts on KDE (5, Interesting)

TopSpin (753) | more than 3 years ago | (#35026936)

With KDE 4.4/5 the basic desktop (window manager, taskbar thinge, desktop, etc) became worthy (stable, mostly feature complete, etc.) Memory use is entirely reasonable. The file manager (konqureror) even survived. Yay KDE.

I did run into some 'social' subsystem (akonadi or some such) that actually launches a MySQL instance with a 50MiB (and growing) seed database to track one thing or another (or something; I haven't the faintest idea what it's trying to do.) Fortunately it can be removed with few consequences; think I've seen one program that spewed some console errors because the dbus services were missing. Now the only goofy thing left is the 'kde wallet' nag that jumps up once in a while for software you wouldn't suspect of being integrated with KDE by default (that one may actually belong in the distro's lap.)

(This isn't an appeal to have these things explained; I'm not interested and won't be developing an interest.)

Thanks for the great work on the basic desktop stuff KDE. Please consider that some folks would prefer a less integrated experience; KDE is found in places where unloading your life into various 'social' databases or configuring your personal info into single-sign-on 'helper' stuff is very inappropriate. A 'just works without all the personal info/high touch integration and corresponding configuration nags' option would be ideal. Overlooking this is entirely understandable; enthusiastic developers often have tunnel vision and fail to consider the simpler use cases while building their visions. Without those people nothing would be built at all.

Also, KDE needs a built-in (meaning no extra stuff to install, lightweight, no glitches, no elaborate tray pop-ups) no-mouse-required, minimal-keyboard-gymnastics way of entering all Unicode characters into everything that accepts text.

Thanks again.

Re:Thoughts on KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35027142)

Mod parent correct AND reasonable. And then ban him from Slashdot for being "Off-tone."

No, seriously though, great job here - as someone who looks back mistily on the 3.x days, this would be ideal.

Re:Thoughts on KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35027746)

Also, KDE needs a built-in (meaning no extra stuff to install, lightweight, no glitches, no elaborate tray pop-ups) no-mouse-required, minimal-keyboard-gymnastics way of entering all Unicode characters into everything that accepts text.

I'm relatively certain KDE defaults to utf-8 for everything everywhere.
If you want something like windows' alt+# for entering special characters; you may find something in the advanced area of the keyboard configuration. (system settings --> input devices; I never looked mind you).
If you intend to actually type using other character sets/languages; I would seriously recommend getting something like ibus/scim installed.

Re:Thoughts on KDE (1)

TheABomb (180342) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027996)

I have the keyboard-switching applet in my systray that cycles through American English, Spanish, German, and Esperanto (those four give me all the diacriticals I need). I do recall at one point ALT-CTRL-K or something similar was a global shortcut to cycle it, instead of having to click. Yeah, that was so annoyingly convenient, I can see why they had to pull the functionality.

For those still waiting... (3, Informative)

JoeCommodore (567479) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027126)

For those still waiting for KDE to port things from KDE3, there's Trinity - http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/ [pearsoncomputing.net] Not perfect, but a great alternative.

It is nice to have OCR and Quanta fully functional again.

I just wish (2, Interesting)

TheABomb (180342) | more than 3 years ago | (#35027952)

they'd put Ksirtet back in kdegames. At one point, I was 81st in the world on its worldwide high scores board, and that was my life's peak.

KDE doesn't look professional enough (1)

garphik (996984) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028030)

Gnome looks a bit more professional with the menu structures, icons and nautilus. With KDE it feels as though you have to do a lot more to get the same operations done. Couple of things I find annoying are the space utilization on the windows, they should try to maximize the window area and not shrink it with big icons and fonts, next... the file browser is not as good as nautilus.

Bluetooth (4, Interesting)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028236)

Wonder if they have bluetooth audio fixed, I find KDE 3.5.* allows me to pair a BT headset (I have three models all work fine with Android) but KDE keeps trying to treat the headset as a data transfer device instead as an audio out device.

Re:Bluetooth (2)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 3 years ago | (#35028258)

Sorry I meant KDE 4.5.* (although KDE 3.5.* has the same issue).
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