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US Authorities GPS Tagging Duped Indian Students

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the was-tat-wrong? dept.

Privacy 181

tanveer1979 writes "Indian students duped by Tri-Valley University in California have been fitted with GPS devices by US immigration authorities. Scores of Indian students were caught in a scam where the university violated immigration norms and illegally got the students F1 visa and immigration status. To keep a track on the movements of the students, the authorities have fitted them with GPS devices. This is spiraling into a major diplomatic row between India and the USA, with the former calling the practice inhuman and unwanted."

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No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (4, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068202)

They should be given plane tickets.

It should never have come down to a controversy over GPS devices because they should have been deported immediately when it was discovered that their visas were fraudulent. Goodbye, sorry about the scam, enjoy your trip back home, the ticket's on us.

Being duped (and their claims of being completely unwilling and unaware participants in the scam are already dubious at best) doesn't mean you get to remain in the country. Once back in India, they can reapply to a real university and get a real visa, if they wish. They can also be sent a refund of any "tuition" left over after this fake school's accounts were frozen. Beyond that, we don't owe them anything.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0, Troll)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068244)

Sadly, this level of common sense will never take hold in the US.

For all the fact that the US is overwhelmingly screaming for the deportation of illegals - no matter whether they come from china, india, mexico, canada, guatemala, somewhere in europe or africa - a certain political party sees illegals as their next voting bloc.

My city has a major problem with guatemalan illegals - specifically, they have organized into very successful burglary rings that the police are often afraid to tackle because they're hauling semiautomatic weaponry.

It's not about "mexicans", it's not about race... it's about crime.

Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs too (5, Insightful)

realxmp (518717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068376)

The real reason isn't just about voting blocs, it's about party donors and cheap labor and both parties are guilty of it. Why do you think no serious attempt has been made to punish firms for deliberately employing illegal immigrants. Americans want cheap goods made in the USA -> largest cost in goods manufacture is labor + Illegals are cheap = Political inaction

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (3, Interesting)

FatAlb3rt (533682) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068610)

You're right, both parties are guilty of it. The difference is one party tends to have some members that want to do something about it, and the entire party is demonized as being inhumane.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (2)

imthesponge (621107) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069608)

The thing is, illegal immigration is unregulated labor, which conservatives absolutely treasure.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (2)

Malc (1751) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068758)

Interesting article [economist.com] over at The Economist analyzing how much cheap Chinese imports have saved Americans money by keeping domestic manufacturing in check. Americans like their goods cheap more than they like wage inflation it seems.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069990)

I wouldn't be surprised if the US has actually saved $$$ with China poisoning themselves and selling the US cheap stuff.

The real problem/question is what did the US do with the savings?

Lots of people like to demonize China. Yes China definitely does lots of evil stuff, but hey if your neighbour worked long hours in unhealthy environments to sell[1] you cheap stuff (which mostly works), whose fault is it if you spend the resulting savings on "more cheese burgers and toys you don't need" or "expensive wars with other neighbours".

[1] Even better - you paid him with money and IOUs created by your own personal printing press :).

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (2)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068860)

Applying that business perspective, what would make the most sense is to allow massive immigration, to have lots of laborers, and keep it illegal, to have them work cheap. Which is more or less what happens. But I'm sure the dynamics are a lot more complex than that. Even in Italy, where racism and immigrant deportation is much quicker than the US, immigrants are quite numerous. As I see it, many of these countries provide cheap labor, cheap natural resources, etc, which get shipped to another country with more financial resources for very low prices. Well, after a while, they become depleted of of everthing, and start following their resources. The fact that their immigration is illegal is just a regulatory, technical inconvenience. Nobody is going to be sitting waiting in poverty for economic equality, justice, opportunity, etc. They just go where the jobs are.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (0)

peragrin (659227) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069352)

Well that and the largest group of illegal immigrants work the farm fields at pick time. How many americans would work the $3 an hour required to keep the price of food reasonable?
would you spend $4 an apple, peach or orange, would spend $15 for a quart of OJ?

American's are paid so much more than other area's that even minimum wage would shut many farms down.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069500)

Whoah! You didn't warn me about that 's on the end of farm there. Don't forget the "Oh no! A 's i's coming!" ' on your plural's.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070232)

This is not true at all. The increase of $1 per hour for laborers on tomatoes increased their price by cents per pound. Labor is not the biggest cost of these goods.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068512)

Oh, please. BOTH parties love the undocumented albeit for differing reasons.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069066)

Isn't it nice how the orwellian newspeak [newspeakdictionary.com] keeps creeping into the debate?

The legal term is illegal alien. As in:

- Alien [reference.com] : (n) a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization ( distinguished from citizen).
- Illegal: (adj) forbidden by law or statute.

In other words: illegal alien [reference.com] : a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069850)

Oh please. Newspeak? It's just another term for the same thing, not some way to subvert the public's knowledge. Let's be serious.

If you want to be an ass about it, I could point out that "illegal alien" isn't an accurate term either. They've committed an illegal act by being here, but the alien is not inherently "illegal". Would you call someone who's committed a crime an "illegal citizen"?

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35070214)

Isn't it nice how the orwellian newspeak

Here's some newspeak for you: go fuck yourself.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you get to make immediate references to 1984.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068516)

I'm guessing you actually meant 'fully automatic weaponry'. If police were reluctant to deal with criminals armed with semiautomatic weaponry, they might as well fold up shop.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (3, Insightful)

eepok (545733) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068596)

It has nothing to do with political power/votes. It has to do with (1) the cost of sending them back, (2) the potential for them to add to the economy (even if illegally), and (3) the cost to the economy if they all suddenly disappeared.

If the taxpayer were to pay for the rounding up and deportation of everyone in the country illegally, we'd not only have a MASSIVE bill on our hands but a ton of businesses would fail in the following days.

As much as "DO SOMETHING NOW"-sayers like to scream, they just don't want to understand that the nation is built on the exploitation of people desperate to make a living for their children. Gardeners, janitors, textiles, builders, cooks, cleaners, harvesters, etc. -- the "dirty job" industry would quickly collapse, entire crops would rot until reliable, knowledgeable workers can be found and employed; the stock market would drop with it (thanks to interdependent investment); and we'd still have unemployment because there wouldn't be a system in place to give those open jobs to the willing-to-work unemployed.

You're right. It's not about race, but it's not about crime, either. It's about MONEY. And the biggest obstacle to getting a fix through Congress is the "DO SOMETHING NOW" types shooting down pragmatic approaches such as plans that would allow amnesty for select illegal immigrants... like some of the ones in the farming industry.

"NO!!! I want all-or-nothing!! ALL OR NOTHING! DO SOMETHING NOW!"

Note: Semi-automatic just means anything but a bolt/lever/pump action firearm. This can be a simple pistol.

Or put another way (2)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070196)

Note: Semi-automatic just means anything but a bolt/lever/pump action firearm. This can be a simple pistol.

aka 'Point and Click'

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068648)

"It's not about "mexicans", it's not about race... it's about crime."

Now you only need to show that these duped Indian students are involved in crime.

Besides, that other political party also likes illegal immigrants, because those are cheap labor.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068740)

Semi-automatic is soooo much more dangerous than those double action revolvers.

FYI: semi-automatic: you pull the trigger, it fires once and can fire again when the trigger is pulled again until the ammo runs out.

Double action: you pull the trigger, it cocks the hammer, rotates the cylinder, releases the hammer, and fires once and can fire again when the trigger is pulled until the ammo runs out.

Effective difference: ammo capacity.

A .22 semi-automatic is not more dangerous than a double action .454 revolver. Please stop using semi-automatic as a scare word.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069262)

A .22 semi-automatic is not more dangerous than a double action .454 revolver. Please stop using semi-automatic as a scare word.

At range when surprise isn't an element the .454 may have an advantage in hitting power. Close up though? That little .22 isn't any slouch. A .22 semi auto is far more concealable than a double action .454 revolver. You're not suddenly going to whip that .454 out and surprise someone. That little "not more dangerous" .22 can appear seemingly out of nowhere and pop off several rounds before the target is fully aware of what is happening.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070278)

You can easily conceal a short .357 revolver. That is a way bigger deal than a semi .22.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

brainboyz (114458) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069290)

Effective difference: trigger pull weight, not ammo. There are plenty of double action only auto-loaders. But, I agree with what you were trying to get across.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069578)

The two are not mutually exclusive either. I own a semi-automatic pistol that is also double action - you do not need to cock the hammer (or rack the slide) to fire the first round - it will cock and release the hammer with a trigger pull. Obviously after the first shot the hammer is cocked back when the slide ejects the spent round, so it is double-action on the first shot, and single action on the rest.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068756)

As a native American friend of mine says....

Yup, All you illegals get the HELL out of my country.

We should not have let that first boatload of you even set foot on our land.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069020)

We should not have let that first boatload of you even set foot on our land.

According to a book (Guns, Germs, Steel?), the only reason the Pilgrims could land at Plymouth in 1620 was because the tribes living there along the coast had been wiped out by disease (smallpox etc) brought in by earlier visitors, mostly fishing boats needing fresh water, who were routinely driven away by the natives as soon as they were found. One of these earlier expeditions had kidnapped "Squanto" and taken him back to England, where he learned English well enough to convince later expeditions (the Mayflower, I presume) to take him with them as an interpreter.

So, tell your friend that his ancestors did keep the first boatloads from landing, at least in New England, but a few illegals still managed to get ashore long enough to leave disease behind.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0, Offtopic)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069030)

That's stupid. We introduced the idea of "country" to them. Nomadic tribes don't generally hold land, and non-nomadic tribes hold very small pieces of land. To pretend there was one "Native American People" who owned all of North America is ridiculous. It like some guy from Republic of Seychelles telling you to get the hell out of Sudan.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (2)

brainboyz (114458) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069310)

And lets not forget immigration wasn't on the law books at that point.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069506)

to pretend they weren't here first, and weren't divided into various states(groups of tribes), and counties(tribes) is a little bit deceiving. While nomadic they covered certain regions, and in several cases many small tribes came together in one giant tribe of tribes.

You are also forgetting that you maybe a citizen of the USA, but you are also a citzen of the state your in, and a citizen of the county your in, and a citizen of the city/town/village your in. Given the fact that 40% of the population moves to a new city at least once in their life I would say some are still nomadic in a modern sense.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068902)

Follow the money and you'll find out the political truth.

We have this bizarre situation where the Republicans are claiming they want to throw out the illegals, while their handler, fast food, low cost stores, agribusiness, etc. want to hire as many as they can to keep wages low. (Who do you think picks most of the fruits and vegetables in the US??).

Meanwhile, the Democrats are calling for amnesty, etc. when the unions, a significant supporter, don't want illegals taking low wage jobs and so bringing down the wage scale for all manual labor.

In short, both sides are talking up the issue and pacifying their supporters with symbolic legislation (remember the legislation to build hundreds of miles of border fence that passed, but, somehow was never funded).

Frankly, nobody gives a political shit about gun-toting illegal Guatemalans. Only political trouble in that direction.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069112)

I imagine they're afraid because there's no unarmed 65 year olds, deaf woodcarvers, small dogs, guys holding golfclubs or other nonthreatening people to shoot. Shows how courageous and risky the job really is when they have no desire to go after actual threats, yet have no problem killing people who pose little to no threat.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

chrisj_0 (825246) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069230)

t the police are often afraid to tackle because they're hauling semiautomatic weaponry

you are kidding right? or do you know what this term means

A semiauto gun is one that doesn't need to be cocked in between firing rounds. These have been around since the turn of the 20th century. And don't get me started on the made up term "Assault Weapons"

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069348)

The "semi-automatic is a scare word and we want to keep it like that" nutter mods are out and about.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (3, Interesting)

commandermonkey (1667879) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069540)

And that crime group is probably leaving decapitated bodies in the desert?

Where do you live that police won't investigate crime because of semi-automatic weapons? And why do you think that 'illegals' are the only criminals with them? Every US city has an illegal narcotics run by our very own citizens and different members of those groups are packing much worse than semi-automatic weapons. Applying your logic about why the 'Guatemalan burglars' are so successful would imply that crime in the US could be easily cut down by making all semi-automatic weapons illegal, rounding up those guns and preventing the sale further in the US. Personally I am on-board with your idea(and I bet the Mexican government would be as well since most of the guns that are fueling their drug war come from the US.)

Its not immigrants it's about class.

Why do you think crime groups are started in the first place? Do you believe that someone wakes up one morning and says 'I have a good paying job and will be able to provide for my family, but you know, I really want to stick it to whity today so I think I will boost his 31" TV that he is so proud of!' Yes, that must be it.

More than anything else, the US tries to export it's ideal. The two chickens in every pot, a good paying job for all who want one, freedom from civil unrest, and the promise of a better tomorrow for anyone willing to work for it. And you know what? People, some living under oppression; others close to starvation; still more bound by a caste system they will never escape; many who look around at their current community and see no work; all these people and more fall for it! Lured by the ideals enshrined on the Statue of Liberty they see America as a shining city on the hill, a refuge for those who persecuted and want a better life for their families. They leave their loved ones and risk death or enslavement all for the chance to work below minimum wage, at some shit job you couldn't pay a US citizen to do and they have no recourse to report labor violations or crimes committed against them for fear of being sent back to the miserable life they came from.

I have no doubt that some who come here in search of a better life, get a glimpse of what the US really is and out of despair and desperation turn to crime. The doubt doesn't exist because many of our natural born citizens are forced to a path of crime for the same reasons.

You want to curb immigration? Stop talking about the American Dream; Stop writing about it; Stop making movies and TV shows about it; and please stop teaching our children about it. Instead show the images of the poor standard of living that most Americans live under. Write about the crappy health care that most receive(those that can afford to anyway) and how many of those issues are caused by not being able to afford proper nutrition. Rewrite sitcoms to show families that unemployed/underemployed because our primary/secondary education system does a poor job at training people to work in a modernizing world. Teach our children that if you work a 40+ hour a week job(if you can find it) in most jobs you will never be able to comfortably retire without assistance. Make movies where the hero is a middle class salaried employee who can't get ahead and, rather than examine the system that is holding him down, inexplicably blames the lowest class who is suffering a worse fate than he is.

In addition to scaring people away from immigrating to the US you have the added bonus of bringing attention to real problems for this country and not the pretend ones of illegals decapitating bodies in the desert or terrorist anchor babies.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070166)

Oh noes semiautomatic. You mean normal fucking guns. One trigger pull = 1 bullet. The same guns the cops have, swat has full auto.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

shriphani (1174497) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068266)

Correct. Students wanted an American education, students came to America, got screwed. Now comply with the law. Asking to be treated like kings is just plain stupid especially when it was up to the student to verify how legit their "university" is.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068518)

in fact they might want the education so much that they would willingly participate in fraudulent activities.

also worthy of note is that they will most likely be eligible to get some student work permit, get a job, and support themselves and a family back home.

it wouldn't be too far fetched if they actually paid extra for such an opportunity.

Nope... that's kinda of a US government's thing... (2, Informative)

denzacar (181829) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068588)

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's thing [wikipedia.org] to be precise.
Like when they issue them a student visa...

The students say they were unaware of the dodgy nature of the university and they were conned. In a petition to the secretary of homeland security and the director of ICE, the affected students said they registered in the university believing it is a "bonafide and legitimate university that had been registered with the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS) database."

SEVIS is a web-based technology maintained by the US to track and monitor schools and programs, students, exchange visitors and their dependents, while they are legally enrolled in the US education system. Indeed, Tri-Valley University is among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website. Authorities have since shut down the university.

And when TFA says "among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website", it means IT IS STILL AMONG THE APPROVED SCHOOLS. [ice.gov]

 
 
On a side note, I completely understand your feelings regarding this matter.
If I was a Navajo Indian, I too would be pissed off by all these immigrant "Indians" coming to my country. Fuckers don't even wear feathers.

Re:Nope... that's kinda of a US government's thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069426)

Mod parent +1 informative. The Tri-Valey University is still listed on the LIST OF SEVIS APPROVED SCHOOLS.
If it is shutdown, keeping it there amounts amounts to fraud.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068592)

Students wanted an American education, students came to America, got screwed.

Thus obtaining an "American" education. I frankly don't see what the problem is.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (2)

Weezul (52464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068618)

It's infinitely more important to nab the university than the kids. If we em' to testify against the university, well shit give em' 5 year work visas conditional upon that testimony. I'd imagine the GPS devices were used to evidence so that INS didn't need to keep them here for testimony. If so, yes that dumb, let earn some money here in exchange for testimony. Don't treat em' like cattle.

INS most likely nabbed them at the border, maybe even planning it when they were in India. INS should've promised them at minimum immunity form a deportation stamp in exchange for helping to collect evidence against this for-profit university and their employers. Ideally, they should be sent home with a reasonable paycheck for working as a police informer, and no deportation stamp, assuming we don't need their testimony in court.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069180)

It's infinitely more important to nab the university than the kids.

Ethically, yes. However, legit or not, there is still an incentive to "inject" their tuition fees into the US economy.

MOD PARENT UP! (0, Offtopic)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068334)

Let's get this guy to +5 before he is buried into oblivion via Slashdot 3.0.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (3, Insightful)

Weezul (52464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068410)

I'd imagine INS felt they needed more evidence against the university, overboard or not. All these students should be well paid for their time working as informants against the university, keep their work paychecks, and be refunded their 'tuition'. Send them home happy with a "thank you come again", not a deportation stamp. And then extract massive fines from this for-profit university that more than cover these expenses.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068622)

And how do you expect these fines to be levied? id wager that any funds the university has would only cover a FRACTION of said expenses? you purpose they grow money on tree's?

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (5, Interesting)

anyGould (1295481) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068448)

I think the government does owe them something - the school was listed as an approved site by the government, after all:

SEVIS is a web-based technology maintained by the US to track and monitor schools and programs, students, exchange visitors and their dependents, while they are legally enrolled in the US education system. Indeed, Tri-Valley University is among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website. Authorities have since shut down the university.

So they came here, partly because the Government lists them as an approved school. Not their fault that the school is no longer approved.

But sending them home does seem preferable to the electronic-ball-and-chain. But then, American government is fond of the Guilty Until We Decide You're Guilty method...

Not deportation (2)

Weezul (52464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068486)

It appears they were willing to help INS nail their employers and this fraudulent for-profit 'university', therefore thy should be awarded all the usual benefits of police informers, i.e. no deportation stamp in their passport, payment for their services, keeping the gains of their illegal work, etc. At minimum, INS would've given them immunity from immediate deportation in exchange for their cooperation.

If you send some Indians home happy after helping INS nail exploitive employers, you'll get more confessing to passport control officers. Yeah sure they might've made oodles more working here illegally for years, but spending time with your family while receiving a reasonable one time payout, well that's probably good enough for most.

Re:Not deportation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068694)

Why pull that figure of $40,000 out of your ass? In fact, in addition to strict visa requirements, foreign students are not given aid or scholarships.

Keep drumming up support for the Minute Men, ignoramus.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068616)

I'm more concerned with the fact that this wasn't caught at all by immigration services or DHS. Almost a decade after 9/11 and this crap is still happening? US border policy is swiss cheese. WTF!?!

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (1)

digitig (1056110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068890)

If you watch the report (yes, yes, I know) you will find that they do face deportation. The GPS tags are presumably to make sure the authorities can find them when the ticket is arranged, and is probably cheaper and more humane than keeping them incarcerated. There's scope for a further diplomatic row, though, about whether the US did all it could to prevent the scam. Others have said that the students should have checked that the university was legitimate, but it was listed on the SEVIS database as legitimate which is about as much of a check as they could realistically do from India. I bet the US government will get its taxes from the fake university before the students get their money back, so the government will be seen to be benefiting from the scam.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (4, Interesting)

BBTaeKwonDo (1540945) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068992)

I second the doubting of the "I didn't know the university was fake" argument:

Investigations by US authorities found that while students were admitted to residential and on-line courses of the university and on paper lived in California, in reality they worked illegally in various parts of the country as far as Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Texas.

Consider also a related article which gives the university's side of the story [indiatimes.com]

"Starting in April, one of student assistants Anji Reddy, who worked in TVU administrative office, teamed with another student Ram Krista Karra, who also has a consultant company, conducting a large cheating scheme by asking students to make tuition payment into Ram Krista Karra's personal account in exchange for student I-20 and CPT approval. TVU has fired these two individuals," the email said.

So we've got a bunch of people who are supposed to be attending university in California but who are actually working in other states (the visa only allows on-campus employment of less than 20 hours per week) and are paying into someone's personal account. Either these students are the most naive, trusting bunch of people on Earth, or some (or more likely, all) of them were in on the scam.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (2)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069026)

They should be given plane tickets. It should never have come down to a controversy over GPS devices because they should have been deported immediately when it was discovered that their visas were fraudulent. Goodbye, sorry about the scam, enjoy your trip back home, the ticket's on us.

It's the ones under investigation. It would be a bigger crime to round all the students up and put them on a plane, when some of the visas might be valid. Kind of ties into that whole "innocent before proven guilty" thing we like.

Or, perhaps more likely since they're not citizens and we've thrown that out long ago even -for- citizens, it's just that ICE doesn't have the time, money, or competence to put a dozen students on a plane in less than 2 months when there's no actual crime committed and they can't just drive a bus down to Mexico.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (-1, Troll)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070074)

They should be GIVEN plane tickets? GIVEN?!? Are you serious? Make the little freaks WORK for them! Let them do menial labor on a pig farm to pay for their flights. Or, let them do some medical research - like, submit to exploratory brain surgery, performed by some blind students. Always, we candy ass Americans are trying to GIVE shit away.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (2, Interesting)

hey! (33014) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070076)

Actually, giving them a plane ticket home would be better than treating them all like convicted child molesters. If they don't have mens rea (a guilty mind/criminal intent), they aren't criminals. They're people with incorrect immigration papers. So you say, "Gee, it's too bad your papers are screwed up, but you have to go home until you can get them straightened out. We'll give you a reasonable period to wrap up your affairs first of course. The people of the United States wish you well in all your future endeavors."

Treating people with respect costs less than treating them disrespectfully. And we want to treat these people with respect, because it is in our national interest to do so. India is the world's largest democracy. They aren't exactly an ally, but if you look at that part of the world, a strong, stable and generally cooperative country looks a lot better than a basket case ally that can transform overnight into an implacable enemy.

This is not about what we owe *them*. It's about what we owe ourselves.

The "solution" we ended up is the worst of all possible worlds. We're being provocatively harsh, *and they're still here*. We'd be better off just turning a blind eye to these people. Even if some of them ended up staying here indefinitely, that's not the end of the world, and it is certainly not worth inflaming the sensibilities of an important strategic and economic partner. People here in the US are pissed at Indians for doing exactly what we asked them to do. They sold us services under our free trade policies. They came here at our invitation to fill up H1B positions. And we're angry at *them* for the laws and policies we have enacted?

If it were up to me, I'd give these people the benefit of the doubt. I'd bend over backward to give them a chance to adjust their status, apply under a different visa program, or go home voluntarily. Why? Primarily because it's the decent, stand-up thing to do. But if that's not enough, it's the right thing to do for our national interests.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35070078)

+5 insightful indeed. You must work for ICE or support their tactics. I hope you get screwed by authoritay when you are a victim.

US government is responsible for admitting these people into the country. The university took the money and fooled the students. US government shutdown the university and calls these students illegals. Way to blame the victims morons.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35070204)

A waste of a good American GPS unit.
I like to keep track of third world welfare cases by sending them back to their own countries.
Of course I understand that there is a huge waiting list of people wishing to score more Indian, Mexican, and Africans as neighbors (they are so law abiding and productive).

Inhuman? (3, Funny)

hort_wort (1401963) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068248)

Inhuman? So are animals tagging each other with GPS locators now? Those dolphins and their paranoia, always hiding amongst my tuna....

Re:Inhuman? (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068808)

It appears that the problem is a staffing shortage at the Federal Government level. If the DOJ, or Immigration, or who ever needs to track folks, is having a problem tracking folks it wants to track, then why not hire folks to track them? Of course there is the concept that this could be out sourced. It appears that there is this need by Corporations, and the Government to outsource millions of jobs, once held by Americans, to the BRIC [wikipedia.org] job sector. I believe that this creates an irony that you just have to love.

Re:Inhuman? (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069060)

If the DOJ, or Immigration, or who ever needs to track folks, is having a problem tracking folks it wants to track, then why not hire folks to track them?

Hire some Mexicans to track the Indians?

Re:Inhuman? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068834)

AS soon as those lazy ass bears launch their own GPS satellite constellation they can do that. Until then they can go crap in the woods.

The United States is really dumb (5, Insightful)

Stargoat (658863) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068264)

The United States does dumb things some times. American attitude: Let's bring over the best and brightest the world has to offer. We'll pay 40000 or more for their education. We'll not spend this money on an American. Then, we'll kick the best and brightest (and know best educated) people in the world out of the country when they graduate.

This strategy will strangle long term growth in the US. Smart and educated people have smart and educated kids who in turn have smart and educated kids. Do you see where this is going?

Re:The United States is really dumb (3, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068370)

Except that's NOT the issue here. These were far from the "best and brightest." Those guys go to REAL universities, not fake ones that are just fronts for illegal employment scams.

Re:The United States is really dumb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069732)

The best and brightest immigrants are watching this too. And there are plenty of places in the world where we can start businesses and favorably compete with US ones.

Re:The United States is really dumb (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068418)

Git er done!!
Wouldn't want one of them brown people taking a job from a good god-fearin bud-drinkin reagan-worshippin white man would we?

Re:The United States is really dumb (2)

loutr (626763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068478)

At my French university you could go study abroad for one year. The US were amongst the choices, you could even go to Berkeley or something like that. The beauty of this system was that you would pay the same tuition fees whether you went abroad or not, so basically you could go to Berkeley for one year and only pay your cheap French tuition fees* . OTOH, US students who came here paid their regular (indecent) US tuition fees...

* about 500€ per year, or even nothing if you have a scholarship, which is not really hard to get if you (or your parents) can't afford the tuition fees.

Re:The United States is really dumb (2)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068546)

about 500€ per year

Wow, that's about $700. That's less than a lot of U.S. students would spend just on books alone. And that's without a scholarship or financial aid.

Re:The United States is really dumb (2)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068676)

$700 is about half the current tuition per semester of the cheapest community colleges in the US (most of them in Mississippi). No wonder the US is rapidly falling behind the rest of the world.

Re:The United States is really dumb (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068850)

Because in the USA higher education is for the RICH only.

It's always been that way, and it will stay that way.

Re:The United States is really dumb (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068958)

No wonder the US is rapidly falling behind the rest of the world.

Our colleges are still quite highly regarded.

Re:The United States is really dumb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35070338)

around here education is free, and the goverment pays ~1000usd a month to students going to university and similar level educations, a little less for lower levels and about half if you live with your parents. We also have to one of the highest taxes in the world but there's no economic excuses to not get an education

Re:The United States is really dumb (2)

Weezul (52464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068772)

If the parent went to EP or ENS, well those are actually better than Berkeley. lol

Almost all civilized countries have kept university basically free. Do you a realize French doctor charges only $25 for a consultation? Yeah, that's partially cuz med school costs them nothing. Did I mention every French doctor I've ever seen was better every American doctor I've seen? Did I mention those were mostly walkup appointments in France?

Btw, you'll actually find nearly open admission for European universities once you drop below the elites like EP and ENS, but that's kinda an illusion, most people who enter will never graduate, kinda like Georgia Tech. In particular, failing *any* required class twice will usually prevent you from graduating.

Re:The United States is really dumb (1)

bjorniac (836863) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068668)

You're missing out a couple of vital steps in your logic here: From someone who's done it, it goes more like this:

University administrators: We've signed up 4000 students for intro courses in physics this semester. We need qualified teachers and lab assistants, but are only willing to pay less than minimum wage, an amount for which we can't find any Americans with the qualifications willing to work.

So: Let's bring over the best and brightest the world has to offer. We'll pay them a pittance and claim that 'tuition' in the form of being told to do all our teaching duties and given all the grunt work of research with little to no guidance is part of their remittance. We'll not spend this money on an American because we could only afford one tenth of the qualified people we need if we did that.

Then, we'll kick the best and brightest and make them get a new visa to work here so that we can force them to keep working or their visa becomes invalid. Hence we can pay them less for their qualifications, and they have no job security.

Re:The United States is really dumb (0)

Zantac69 (1331461) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069040)

Then, we'll kick the best and brightest (and know best educated) people in the world out of the country

Leaving people with your spelling skills? Bazinga! /snark

Re:The United States is really dumb (0)

Stargoat (658863) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070018)

Suck my big fat American kokc, you grammar nazi.

Unwanted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068274)

Of course it is unwanted. That is a stupid stupid statement to make. It's like saying, "I got mugged, it was horrible and unwanted".... Anyways, as far as inhuman - - very cruel: showing great cruelty and a lack of humanity - unfeeling: giving an impression of being cold and unfeeling - not human: not seeming to be human, or not characteristic of human beings They are here illegally, therefore as elrous0 said, they should be sent back home. I can think of far worse things for someone that breaks the law than being fitted with a tracking device.

Re:Unwanted? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068558)

They are here illegally, therefore as elrous0 said, they should be sent back home. I can think of far worse things for someone that breaks the law than being fitted with a tracking device.

Indeed. Next we just have to figure out how to tag senators with tracking devices.

This will give us important data (5, Funny)

straponego (521991) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068320)

We can track their breeding and migratory patterns, learn about where they eat, and-- wait, you're talking about people? What do you mean, "just brown people, for now?" Not cool.

Re:This will give us important data (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068450)

I thought they used cellphone tracking for these things. Oh well, maybe immigration didn't have access to that data, so they created their own data source. Either way I think this is the future of data. What data is acessible and possible is sought, not what data is legal.

for-profit university eh? (5, Insightful)

Weezul (52464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068332)

Isn't this protecting Indian students from immigration exploitation?

All fees collected by this 'university' should be refunded to the students, along with a nice payment for working as an undercover informant. If the students can gain admission to a legitimate university and can afford it, they should be granted new student visa. Otherwise, they should be given a 90 day visa to wrap up their affairs in the U.S., under the understanding that this might involve continued work, and given a plane ticket home to india. They should not be considered deported if they leave within three months. Send them home happy for helping out INS.

And all these expenses should be recouped tenfold form this for-profit 'university' that obtained their visa.

Re:for-profit university eh? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068454)

Sorry, but this will never happen in America. It's too reasonable. It simultaneously punishes a for-profit company (legality of its actions be damned) and doesn't adequately dehumanize the foreigners, who are THE ENEMY for having set foot on American soil (their intentions be damned).

Re:for-profit university eh? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069682)

US visa policy is based on the premise that the US doesn't need the foreigner, but the foreigner needs the US. Hence the attitude foreigners get when navigating the US visa system is similar to the attitude shown by House on TV. Hence a foreigner's very first interaction with the US is to be treated as an unwelcome pest by the system. US authorities have no concern for building good will with foreigners in the US. This is just an example of that. The American people are much more welcoming.

Paranoia (1)

Grapplebeam (1892878) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068352)

They're not going to blow up anything. People need to stop acting like idiots. Well, on second thought, they might want to blow up something NOW...

Re:Paranoia (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069542)

It's not about blowing stuff up, stupid. It's more important than that. It's jobs.

And I'm pretty sure I used the proper forms, so blowing an artery is your issue. Go police someone else.

GPS? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068612)

I thought they already had GPS affixed to them...isn't that what the forehead dot is for?

This is not wrong! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068636)

I'm an Indian and am aware about the craze among Indians engineers to go abroad (or get an MBA). Infact I am writing this from Germany. While a lot of Indians have contributed to foreign lands, this doesn't mean all Indians are intelligent or will contribute to economy of whereever they go.
The students in this case want India (and the world) to believe that they are harmless victims of the situation, but I am sure they were aware of the scam and hence should have reported this matter earlier. If you don't report a crime, you're somehow responsible for it. Probably, some 'education consultant' from India was involved in the whole scheme.

I don't see any racist element to this, they should be happy about the fact that they are not in some detention center ready to be sent back to India.

There is nothing wrong with going to foreign lands for better education and career prospects. After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and this is why the company picks him/her over a native. Sorry, today the world works on these terms.... So don't crib about Indians taking your jobs all the time.....there is a reason we get picked over natives.

 

Re:This is not wrong! (1)

deadweight (681827) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069224)

"After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents" Let me fix that for you: "After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents or the fact he/she will be a virtual slave on an H1B visa and put up with wages no American that could do the job would tolerate" There you go.

Re:This is not wrong! (2)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069576)

"After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents" Let me fix that for you: "After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and, most importantly, the fact he/she will be a virtual slave on an H1B visa and put up with wages and conditions no American that could do the job would tolerate"

Might as well get it right.

Re:This is not wrong! (1)

GottMitUns (1012191) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069752)

In America Indians are taking advantage of Affirmative action policies. I have seen this happen firsthand.

Re:This is not wrong! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069816)

Because they have "consulting agencies" (basically slave traders) who bring people over to the US, force them to work when and where they're going to work (regardless of where in the US this is, so yes, in most cases, families are split up for long periods of time and yes, even if they're living locally, they're quite often given group homes to live in under pretty horrible conditions), and then since these people need the company to process their green card (which can take 7 years), they are forced to accept the situation and the money they're told they're going to be paid (again, basically slaves).

Meanwhile, those "consulting agencies" will lie through their teeth to get these people hired anywhere (since if not, they're on "bench-time," aka being paid even though they're not working) and instruct their "employees" (again, basically slaves) to lie on every interview as well and say they've done everything in the world to get hired, or they'll be fired, lose their visa (since the company controls it), and be deported. My favorite stories from working for a much more legit consulting agency for years (and having to constantly differentiate ourselves from slave-traders) were the places who would send one guy on an interview who presented well, get him hired, then send someone else to do the job.

So then a company gets 10 applicants for a job, 2 of which come from these agencies, both of which are asking for MUCH less money than the "natives." Do they always get hired? No, of course not. But hey, if X is much cheaper than Y and promises to do the same thing, you're going to at least have a look at X every time. So they get more interviews, which leads to more hirings.

So in conclusion, it takes a bad incident or 2 for a company to learn who to trust and who not to trust, but in the meantime, those who are not lying, cheating,and stealing their way into employment sometimes are passed over for jobs. It doesn't mean India (or China, or anywhere else) is producing better workers, it's just a matter of companies/hiring managers being idiots.

Re:This is not wrong! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069888)

...There is nothing wrong with going to foreign lands for better education and career prospects. After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and this is why the company picks him/her over a native. Sorry, today the world works on these terms.... So don't crib about Indians taking your jobs all the time.....there is a reason we get picked over natives.

I'm glad you're rather proud of your background and accomplishments, but be careful not to project them on to Indians as a whole. Just like all Americans aren't cowboys, all English cooks aren't terrible and all Irishmen aren't drunks. The following is just my personal professional experience from the past 5 years or so I've been used as a technical expert when interviewing folks for Java development jobs at well known company way up in the Fortune 500. YMMV and all that. Posting anon for obvious reasons.

At least in IT, the reason many get picked over "natives" is there's a huge and borderline fraudulent base of companies that are essentially "body shops" that just shovel semi-qualified folks at the HR departments of major corporations. Compound that with IT being looked at as a liability rather than an asset, and the business side of these corporations set crazy low billing rates for even "Java Sr. Developer" jobs. Very rarely does an American resume come across the desk as most aren't interested in working for about 66% of the billing rate which is in turn about 20% lower than what a non-contract employee makes. The Americans that do make it through the HR filters are usually damaged goods in some way or another ... and that's why they're not employed elsewhere.

The sheer level of incompetence I've personally witnessed from these "Java Sr. Developer" candidates is staggering. Everything from "what's an array?" to "what's the difference between int and Integer?" and I've even had them argue with me that you can't use a finally block! Again this is for a "Java Sr. Developer" position! It's not uncommon to go through 100 resumes, 30 interviews, take a chance on 5 and hire them, fire 3 after they don't work out due to poor performance, and finally try and grow the other 2 into productive developers ... only to have them leave in 6 months to a year and repeat the cycle.

The kids in this story were likely part of this "IT body shop" scam or at least a variation on that theme. I don't personally blame them for looking to come over here and earn higher wages for a few years ... I'd probably think it sounded like a good deal too if I were in their shoes. But looking at the situation for what it is ... these folks are basically educated migrant workers. The industry is different than picking strawberries, but the business plan for the individual is basically the same.

Step 1: Get into country with higher pay and a more stable and valuable (for now) currency. At least these folks generally do it "legally" even if it's a bit shady (H1B program ... you can't tell me there aren't tens of thousands of semi-competent Java developers in America!)
Step 2: Accept and be grateful for pay lower than most of the "natives" would work for.
Step 3: Save your money for a few years and then take it home and convert it to a LOT of the local currency. Current exchange rate is about 45:1 (what we generally refer to a PROFIT!!! in step three :)

The main difference in this case a why American's complain about losing jobs is the fact that these ARE good jobs that people WANT and work very hard to get, sometimes going into significant debt to gain the required credentials. Then when they graduate they find out that they're competing against folks who will accept take home pay that they could exceed being a school teacher! (One of the most underpaid jobs in America BTW.) If you're a lucky enough American to land a good job in the field out of college, you'll see the other side-effect of these folks ... depressed wages.

At least in my experience in IT, the majority of the time the reason an Indian is chosen over an American has nothing to do with capability and everything to do with cost.

GPS devices... (1)

cheap.computer (1036494) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068704)

Even Martha Stewart was wearing one for a few months, the idea here is that the students can still move around freely and be tracked while deportation proceedings are pending, its like prison without walls. It is easy to catch and deport legal immigrants who are no longer welcome. What is funny to me is I have not read similar reports of tagging illegal immigrants with GPS devices even if they were caught, is this coz this might piss off certain chunk of the vote bank?

India, you say? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35068750)

Just put it in terms the Indian diplomats can understand: that these students are a member of a lower caste and have fewer rights. I'm sure that will clear all this up, right?

Why is this possible? (1)

wiredlogic (135348) | more than 3 years ago | (#35068908)

Why is it even possible in this day to make it through a border crossing with a fraudulent visa? It would be cheap insurance to develop visa documentation with a matrix code that can be verified in a central database to weed out the frauds when they first land in the US. It's amazing that the US can track its own citizens better than the aliens it brings in from outside.

Re:Why is this possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069208)

From what I can tell, they had valid visas, they just received them in a fraudulent manner (not necessarily their fault, but it still would invalidate the visa). So when they crossed the border, their visa was good, but has recently been invalidated as a result of an ICE investigation into the school.

Re:Why is this possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069404)

The visas and immigration status were real, but obtained fraudulently.

Website (1)

YesDinosaursDidExist (1268920) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069128)

Have you seen this school's website? There is no way anyone could believe its a real institution....seriously.... http://www.trivalleyuniversity.org/ [trivalleyuniversity.org] .....it doesn't even have a .edu address....

What is really going on (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069256)

The "for profit" university is basically a scam. Most are a total waste of money anyway. since you can get a better education for a fraction of the price at a state college. Anyway... basically this is how I see it.

This "university" made Indian students pay to come to the US.
Processed them for illegal f1 visas to get them to pay them money.
Then apparently set them to work (probably at something near US minimum wage) on projects in the US. This probably lead to Americans being fired since American IT people will not work for minimum wage.

The people at the "university" should go prison. Note the "university" was shut down. It was just a big scam to smuggle in very cheap labor. I would let the students who are here apply to othe

What sort of Indian ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35069356)

Lakota, Ojibwe , Apache, Hopi ,Kiowa, Tlingit,Navajo or from somewhere in South America?

If they don't want to wear a GPS device (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 3 years ago | (#35069810)

I'm sure they can sit in jail while their cases are processed.

What does India do with foreigners it finds without valid visas?

Sure it sucks for anyone who was conned and didn't thought they were doing the right thing, but that's always the case.

today is feb 1st, not April 1st (1)

peter303 (12292) | more than 3 years ago | (#35070038)

paronia rumors are rampant
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