Do Tools Ever 'Die?' 615
An anonymous reader writes "NPR recently ran a debate between two commenters regarding the perpetual lifespan of tools... in other words, that no tool ever goes completely out of use. This debate wasn't focused just on mechanical tools based on simple machines, but included electronics as well (vinyl record players, for example). Did you know you can still buy 8-inch floppy drives online? NPR is looking for examples of tools that have gone entirely out of use... any ideas, Slashdot?"
How sillilly obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
How many times have we read about NASA tapes and such from early missions where the hardware to read them has long since disappeared, and no one is even sure what format the tapes are in?
Re:How sillilly obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Libraries (Score:3)
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> Vacume tubes
As long as you don't count microwave ovens and high-power commercial radio transmitters, just to name two really obvious uses that aren't going away anytime soon...
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Don't count on microwave ovens for too much longer.
I've just been doing as a hobby project a simple design of semiconductor only microwave.
It has major advantages - it can have a _much_ larger fraction of the cabinet as cooking volume - especially in small units.
It can be smoothly varied easily in power.
Of course, it has the disadvantage that instead of $20 for a 900W magnetron, the semiconductors to power it would at the moment cost around $1500 for the dozen or so devices needed. (in quantity)
I would exp
What's the advantage? (Score:3)
Don't count on microwave ovens for too much longer. I've just been doing as a hobby project a simple design of semiconductor only microwave. It has major advantages - it can have a _much_ larger fraction of the cabinet as cooking volume - especially in small units. It can be smoothly varied easily in power.
Of course, it has the disadvantage that instead of $20 for a 900W magnetron, the semiconductors to power it would at the moment cost around $1500 for the dozen or so devices needed. (in quantity)
I would expect to see the first solid state microwaves on the market perhaps in 2020 or so. At which time, the days of the vacuum tube will be numbered. Already in a moderate fraction of homes, the second to last valve has gone away. (the cathode ray tube)
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't it be less efficient than a magnetron?
The cavity magnetron doesn't suffer from the main disadvantages of vacuum tubes - there's no heater filament that can fail, and there's no fragile envelope like the glass envelope found on most familiar vacuum tubes. The magnetron self-oscillates, so the circuitry to drive it can be remarkably simple - in many cases just a transformer, a diode and a relay. Presumably a simple PWM controller can be used to modulate the cooking intensity
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Vacume tubes
Still being manufactured, still in use - especially in the music industry.
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Vacume tubes
Oh please.
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the Grand Arcanum (various alchemical processes intended to produce the Philosopher's stone) - But I dare say chemistry is huge.
The Inca "knots tied in a rope" document format. - But documents in written languages are pretty common.
Ancient Egyptian stone drill bits. - But drill bits can be found here and there.
Greek Fire (though arguably Napalm is a modern equivalent) - Yes, Napalm and, well, bombs.
The ancient Babylonian legal code (Hamorab
Re:How sillilly obvious (Score:5, Funny)
> Vacume tubes
Dictionaries and/or spell-checkers?
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I would add the abacus
No kindergarten-aged children or relatives I presume? Or friends/relatives who teach kindergarten children?
Abacus is a very simple and useful tool when teaching basic number concepts and operations. Also, it is a very useful tool for the blind. [wikipedia.org]
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Self-selection (Score:2)
How many times have we read about NASA tapes...
Therein lies the problem. Any invention that we have heard of or read about is probably because somewhere, somehow it is still in use. Unless you happen to be a historian specializing in weird inventions you probably have never heard of inventions which are no longer made or used.
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The parent comment was marked insightful with very little research.
Exhibit A: http://science.slashdot.org/story/08/11/10/0641226/Drive-From-Sydney-Museum-Could-Unlock-NASA-Moon-Data [slashdot.org]
Some helpful Australians are using the drives found in Perth in attempt to recover the data on moon dust.
Exhibit B: http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/articles/la-times-article-features-newest-lunar-images [nasa.gov]
Nancy Evans recovering lunar images from the FR-900 Ampex tapes.
Myth Busted.
Apparently those tools still exist, just had
kdawson? (Score:2, Funny)
I'm pretty sure he's still sucking in oxygen
Hitler died (Score:2, Funny)
Hitler Died, He was a tool.
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Hitler Died, He was a tool.
Yes, but he's still used frequently as a tool in Internet conversations.(/godwin)
Tools for Encryption (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Tools for Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
A scytale was a club carried by every Spartan (not Roman) officer. It was used as a bludgeon first and possibly a cryptographic tool second, but the historical records of its cryptographic use weren't written until a couple hundred years after the claimed use. None of the historical accounts which were contemporary to the time make any mention of them being used for any purpose other than hitting people (Sparta was known more for military might than for its intellect). So it's quite likely that their cryptographic use was invented after-the-fact by some historian and then repeated by others rather than an actual use.
I also disagree with the idea that either the hypothetical scytale or the cryptographic rotor have really gone out of use. People still, unfortunately, roll their own cryptographic schemes and one of the things that this implies is that they reinvent the wheel or sometimes randomly copy ideas from history. Hardware versions of the cryptographic rotor and the scytale are probably extinct, but the software implementations undoubtedly live on and are in use, even though they shouldn't be.
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A scytale was a club carried by every Spartan (not Roman) officer. It was used as a bludgeon first and possibly a cryptographic tool second
So, more of a codebreaking tool? http://xkcd.com/538/ [xkcd.com]
Of course tools die... (Score:2)
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Are you commenting on how this place is where good tools go to die...
Or how they sell such crappy tools, that they will inevitably die.
I've bought a good many tools from harbor freight, and yes, I know what you're talking about. Everything is crap, so only buy things you'll rarely use or they can't hardly screw up.
Bad tools to get at Harbor Freight:
cordless drill
sawsall
anything electrical
anything precision
Good tools to get at harbor freight
hex wrenches
rubber hammer
traffic cones
C clamp
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I'd stay away from the hex wrenches. Most likely they are made out of that cheap stuff that strips easily under moderate usage. Same with socket sets.
Unless one is using them for hobby/very light home use, one is better off with Sears Craftsman tools - at least in the US.
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Even Craftsman is slipping in quality. Their stuff still has a lifetime warranty, but compare a socket wrench made now to one made 10-20 years ago, and you find that they definitely are not as well built.
I'd highly recommend Snap-on or Mac Tools. Both of those still are high quality. They are expensive, but if someone uses a tool often, having the assurance that a tool isn't going to break and possibly injure is a good thing. However, for people who occasionally reach for the toolchest, the Sears offeri
I know I couple that SHOULD (Score:2)
Here are some Tools [vh1.com] that need to receive a Darwin award [google.com].
Radioactive tools (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Radioactive tools (Score:4, Insightful)
What things are we eating and drinking that, 100 years from now, our descendants will wonder how we didn't all just keel over dead?
Beyond obvious things like tobacco, when I lived in NYC I was always struck by the rich inhabitants coming out of the Whole Foods with their organic produce and stepping into the exhaust fumes of a million cars and buses. Yeah, it'll be the Apples that kill you...
Lost technologies (Score:2)
I'm guessing that technologies used in the past to accomplish feats that are difficult to replicate in modern times would be a fruitful area to find examples. Sadly, identifying the tool itself would not be possible since they are "lost". Examples that come to mind: tools used to build the pyramids.
This probably isn't what TFA really is after, though.
You'd be hard put to find a dump rake still in use (Score:2)
n/t
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Maybe they are right (Score:2)
"One example of a community linked by party line is in Big Santa Anita Canyon high in the mountains above Los Angeles, near Sierra Madre, California, where 81 cabins, a group camp and a pack station all communicate by magneto-type crank phones. One ring is for the pack station, two rings for the camp and three rings means all cabins pick up."
/. News Network (Score:2)
This just in - people still make vinyl records, and people buy them because (they think) vinyl records sound better than any other recording medium.
Also, all those 386 processors that are still in active use need to be replaced occasionally.
Vinyl, yeah - but 8-track tapes are dead (Score:2)
Unlike vinyl, nobody ever really loved 8-track.
Re:/. News Network (Score:5, Interesting)
People also buy vinyl because it is easier to mix with. You have direct physical control over the movement of the disc and therefore the speed of the music which gives you more control for beat-matching and makes scratching possible/easier. Obviously, it has it's disadvantages. Your bags are heavier, vinyl can get damaged, it takes longer to find a piece of vinyl than search a digital disk etc. but as a tool for this specific job, many still (rightly, in my opinion) consider it superior.
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This just in - people still make vinyl records, and people buy them because (they think) vinyl records sound better than any other recording medium.
Also, all those 386 processors that are still in active use need to be replaced occasionally.
Have any of those people compared vinyl to super audio CD's (SACD)? I agree that vinyl can carry details that conventional CDs lack (at the expense of dynamic range and some distortion), but I always understood SACD to be the best of both words: the low amplitude detail of vinyl (which adds warmth, spacial definition, detail, and good blending of orchestral instruments (especially in classical music)), and the clarity, low noise floor, dynamic range, and consistency of CDs. Has anyone seriously claimed v
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You may scoff, but while it was highly debatable in the 80s and mid-90s, these days it's likely to be on the truer side than it was ever before. It's not that CDs are "clinical" or "sterile", but that CDs enable a whole range of audio abuse, the most common one being, well, LOUDER IS BETTER!!!! In no medium until the CD has it been possible to store a dynamic ra
Cotton fishing lines (Score:4, Interesting)
I heard someplace that the quickest ever total replacement of a technology was cotton fishing lines. Cotton lines must be replaced every season. When nylon came out, it was cheaper than cotton, and lasted forever. Is there any use for cotton fishing lines anymore?
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I bet it works as dental floss.
(No idea, nor do I care to bother to look, what dental floss actually is made from.)
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Nice try [scottscoar...club.co.uk].
It would be something I might use to teach a kid handline fishing. Nylon can be rough on your hands, though cotton will also burn. And it's biodegradable, so when they hook a good-sized bass, if they let it go the line won't entangle generations of fish. Hopefully.
Re:Cotton fishing lines (Score:4, Interesting)
considering the continued harm to marine organisms that drifting nylon nets and lines do, there is a case to be made to bring cotton lines back. or rather, some sort of synthetic substance that is as strong as nylon, for awhile, but then degrades in the environment
Mercury-based medicines? (Score:2)
Very easy answer (Score:5, Informative)
Basically a box that you put your feet into where x-rays are fired upon your feet and you can look into the viewing ports on the top and see the bones in your feet for the purpose of getting correctly sized shoes.
It was used during the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s and was subsequently discontinued after employees experienced radiation burns from the constant exposure.
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/shoefittingfluor/shoe.htm [orau.org]
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You could probably lump a lot of asbestos and lead products under that pattern also (at least in the US). Sometimes it takes a while to get a safety clue.
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The smoke enema machines used to resussitate drowning victims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoke_enema [wikipedia.org]
Need some time (Score:5, Funny)
Too easy - I just took a bunch of pictures of obsolete technology to include in my response (and to make it authentic I shot it on film). Now, if you can please hold on a bit I just need to send the roll off to get processed into Kodachrome slides. Shouldn't take more than a few days, so please check back.
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Re:Need some time (Score:5, Funny)
I thought the "whoosh" was no longer in use but I hear it's been seen in the wild recently.
The rack (Score:2)
I am sure (and afraid) I'll be corrected, but I'm sure I haven't heard of any modern usage of the rack [wikipedia.org].
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Antikythera mechanism or Henges (Score:3)
The Antikythera mechanism is a 'tool; that is no longer in use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism [wikipedia.org]
How about Henges ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henge [wikipedia.org]
Linotype machine or Paige Compositor (Score:3)
Linotype machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine [wikipedia.org]
Paige Compositor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paige_Compositor [wikipedia.org]
Philosopher's Egg and other alchemy (Score:3)
Philosopher's Egg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aludel [wikipedia.org]
Philosophical furnace http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanor [wikipedia.org]
Cupellation
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You would also do well to read your own link, depending on whose definition you're using 'henges' may not have been, categorically, tools at all. Some had astrological functions, others appear not to have had anything more than local topographical significance, which really doesn't make them tools any more than the landscaping at a community park.
Stonehenge? (Score:2)
Does anyone actually use Stonehenge for its intended purposes?
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You mean making it 10" tall and putting it on a stage?
Yes, I'm pretty sure that happened at least once.
Dead writing tools. (Score:2)
Papyrus for writing (as opposed to other uses). You can still buy it as a souvenir in Egypt, but paper superseded it for any other form of writing. Coming to think of it, I haven't seen many clay tablets used lately. Note that parchment is not quite dead - it is still used by Jews for Torah Scrolls [wikipedia.org].
If we include software as well as hardware, Hieroglyphs [wikipedia.org] and Cuniform [wikipedia.org] are not in use anymore. Neither are a bunch of ancient languages - people still use Latin, ancient Greek, and Hebrew - but most languages used
Re:Dead writing tools. (Score:4, Informative)
The point of the NPR article (which I listened to this morning) was hese tools were still being produced and used, even if only by hobbyists etc.
Papyrus qualifies. Still being made and used.
Newspapers - how hard was that? (Score:2)
Newspapers... well for reading anyway. I guess people may still use them for "proof of life" photos and ransom notes, but not reading.
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There's also window washing, wrapping fish guts, lining the bird cage...
The tools used to build StoneHenge (Score:4, Insightful)
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There are several groups gathering and transcribing these old wax cylinders to digital media. so they are indeed playing them to this day. I suspect at least one of these machines will record, and so it can still be done.
And many of the tools used to build the pyarmids are in regular use today. levers, incline planes, etc. We think of them as ramps and teeter-totters.
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Consumer media (Score:2)
Dead and buried:
Elcaset - giant higher quality analog cassettes
DCC - digital cassettes backwards-compatible with analog cassettes.
D-VHS - digital home movie format killed by DVD, though it carried a higher quality picture
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I *almost* bought one of those when they were around. Convienience of a cassette, fidelity of a reel to reel.
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D-VHS - digital home movie format killed by DVD, though it carried a higher quality picture
oh the irony of A VHS format being beaten by a format with worse picture quality...
vanilla ice = useless tool (Score:2)
BURN!
Paper tape (Score:2)
I have not seen paper tape used in a long time.
hit the ER, you'll get lots of it on you (Score:2)
paper tape is widely used medically yet. paper roll for gluing in place is a staple of the drywall industry for seam joining.
now, if you're talking Scotch 100 paper recording tape, you'd be on to something.
Marriage (Score:3, Funny)
If you need an example (Score:4, Informative)
Just look at the textile industry. There are lot of odd tools they used from the early 1900s that today, we honestly have no idea what they are even used for. That doesn't even include the mountains of wood bobbins, loom repair devices, etc.
the stones. (Score:4, Funny)
I saw a documentary about stone-age families. Apparently they used baby wooly mammoths to wash their dishes, and adult wooly mammoths to shower themselves. The woolly mammoth is quite extinct, so it is unlikely that it is still in use.
Manual Typewriter (Score:2)
classic outdated tool (Score:2)
Buggy whips- no, wait, my dominatrix has a whole set of those. Never mind.
MS Access ... (Score:2)
Knowledge dies with its population (Score:2)
Nothing to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
I heard the story on NPR this morning and I think it's overrated. In my opinion, by including in the report tools and inventions that are custom made for leisure or passion and not necessity or practical use, the scope of invention "death" is reduced artificially.
The report included some examples of old farming implements that are still in use in some developing countries, ostensibly because they cannot afford the newer technology and the old tools are certainly effective. These surely are examples of old technology that is still "alive."
However, the problem is that, while the authors concentrated on the advertisements shown on a late-19th Century Farmer's Almanac, and offer these as proof; they extrapolated their observations to apply to the entire breadth of all human civilizations.
I disagree with this. Obviously some inventions have become obsolete when newer and better technology superseded it. The fact that some fringe group or individual continues to manufacture ancient items for study or pleasure (with no intention to apply or use it in practice), does not mean that the technology is still "alive". Such technology is obsolete and out of circulation for practical use. Understanding or knowledge of it may still remain, but it is effectively dead.
Their thesis then can be rephrased as such: Knowledge acquired by humanity throughout the course of history is accumulated and seldom lost. This is a much more intuitive and obvious assertion than the original one, but also a much less interesting one.
-dZ.
Many a medical tool has gone to never come back (Score:4, Informative)
Due to changes in medical knowledge, plenty of 'tools' used in medical practices have fallen into disuse because the underlying medical theory has been dis-proven.
As an example, I present to you the Tobacco smoke enema device [wikipedia.org]. How many of these do you think are still in use today? Do you really want tobacco smoke blown up your backside when you just have been pulled out of the water with a set of bellows and a pipe? Yet in the 17th and 18th centuries they hung these things all along the river Thames to help 'warm' people just pulled out of the water.
Greek fire. Roman ballistas. (Score:3)
I understand the technologies for both of those things have been lost. (Apparently, the Romans had some trick they did with oxhairs or sinews or something that gave their ballistas a lot more power than the competition.)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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The TDD machines for deaf people to use are very similar to a "coupled' modem set up...
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Home pacemaker evaluation kits also have something similar to an acoustic modem. A little more forgiving than acoustic modems (One can use a modern cordless phone and just lay it down over the connection points.)
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and I bet at least one person has had to dig out the old rubber cup version.
I'm not so sure, IIRC the head set coupled modems topped off at fairly low speeds.
From Wiki:
The practical upper limit for acoustic-coupled modems was 1200-baud, first made available in 1973 by Vadic and 1977 by AT&T. It became widespread in 1985 with advent of the Hayes Smartmodem 1200A.
At those speeds you'd be hard pressed to find a service you could use effectively.
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Perhaps only every month or so. Our second oldest incoming pool will sometimes negotiate K56Flex connections, if something about the X2 fails.
It's multi-protocol. Even remembers Multitech's bastard Unix method, which shall be forever unnamed.
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The Internet in anti-government actions (Score:2)
Re:The Internet in anti-government actions (Score:4, Insightful)
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Mod +5 Sad but Insightful
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it gets even better... (Score:2)
NPR is a "tool" that should be tossed out. It's as useless as tits on a bullfrog.
they were interviewing the founding editor of Wired , and we know what a bunch of hype tools those guys are!
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