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PS3 Piracy Threats Cause Phone-Home DRM

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the fighting-fire-with-gasoline dept.

DRM 256

Stoobalou writes "The last time game developer Capcom tried to impose Internet-based copy protection on one of its games, it was forced to backtrack over a storm of complaints. In that instance Final Fight: Double Impact was hobbled with a piracy-busting scheme which phoned home every time the game was booted, but Capcom forgot to mention that little nugget of information to potential purchasers — an omission which eventually led to the DRM scheme being hastily withdrawn. The company has decided not to repeat the mistake with its latest release, Bionic Commando Rearmed 2, by making it clear that the game won't work unless it gets a sign-off from the company's servers."

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256 comments

A no go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102124)

Well, that will be a game that sells well.

Re:A no go (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102374)

Well, that will be a game that sells well.

Most homes where this will be bought have always on Internet anyway. How many people here specifically turn on their router when they want to go online? Besides which, this is a game designed to be played online with others. TFS only linked to a little diatribe that didn't actually link back to the source. Actual entry for this story on PSN is here [playstation.com] .

Besides, the game is not unique in this. Dragon Age II will make periodic calls home to check it's legit. Is that game going to do badly, too? Linking a game to a legitimate account online is one of the least inconvenient to the user methods of reducing piracy.

Re:A no go (3, Informative)

Eraesr (1629799) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102538)

Don't be fooled. Apparently only 78% of PS3 owners and 73% of XBox 360 [gamasutra.com] owners have their respective consoles hooked up to Internet. Wii trails a long way behind that with 54%.

Re:A no go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102602)

Those who don't have it connected to the internet probably don't buy a whole lot of PSN games anyway.

Re:A no go (2)

commodore6502 (1981532) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102650)

Nintendo consoles have always trended towards younger audiences, and probably ~50% of Wii owners are kids or teens who don't have permission to get online.

I think Wii is actually the best to have online, since it has all those classic Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and N64 games. Also Sega Master System and Genesis and Commodore 64 games. It's a sweet deal. (IMHO)

Re:A no go (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102664)

I dont go online with my PS3 its in the family room, haven't hacked it either but i'm not going to be forced to put it online, I've taken it into my office and run updates a few times but no way i'm going to do that everytime the kids or i want to play a game. Hopefully there will be noticeable warning on the box for titles that do that.

Re:A no go (2)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102764)

it will be in 3 point font in a font color that is only 2 shades lighter than the background

Re:A no go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102380)

Probably not, but that's because it's a pretty shitty game. However, this DRM scheme is somewhat of a non story (and should have been the same for Final Fight). I would say easily more than half the PSN games I own require you to sign in to PSN to play.

Not "causality" (4, Insightful)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102158)

PS3 Piracy Threats Cause Phone-Home DRM

No, privacy threats plus Sony's willingness to impose phone-home DRM plus consumers' and legislators' willingness to accept DRM were all contributors.

Everything dies (3, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102236)

Even corporations.
Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.

Re:Everything dies (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102460)

Even corporations. Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.

-1 over-rated??? More like: +1 insightful.

I am with you 100%. Boycott them.

Re:Everything dies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102544)

Fine by me. They've been making the same games over and over again for the last 20 years (just like any other Japanese developer).

Re:Everything dies (0)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102894)

Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.

How about no?

I happen to like some of their games, thanks. More than enough to ignore this particular incident.

Re:Not "causality" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102282)

The nature of DRM, if any, in games is up to the publishers to decide. Sony has nothing to do with it.

Not that anyone plays Capcom games, but this rubbish is all thanks to geohot. You're a true hero of the gaming community,

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102308)

but this rubbish is all thanks to geohot.

Ignorance is a bliss, eh.

Or to say it straight out: it would have happened eventually ANYWAY, with or without geohot. Sony pissed on too many toes when they suddenly removed OtherOS. Blaming geohot is simply wrong, blame Sony for being f*cktards in the first place.

Re:Not "causality" (0)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102348)

but this rubbish is all thanks to geohot.

Ignorance is a bliss, eh.

Sony pissed on too many toes when they suddenly removed OtherOS. Blaming geohot is simply wrong, blame Sony for being f*cktards in the first place.

You are aware that OtherOS was removed because Geohotz used it to implement his first hack and it was then used by piraters exploiting Geohotz work?

Re:Not "causality" (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102416)

Yeah! Everything is his fault, not the fault of the paranoid people actually implementing defective DRM that only hurts actual customers and removing features! Down with Geohot! If one person copies a game, absolutely everyone should suffer!

Re:Not "causality" (2, Interesting)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102482)

He didn't copy a game though, he broke the PS3 security cum DRM system and told the whole damn world how he did it.

Some people like the grandparent poster still think Sony removed it for no reason.
Now why the heck would they do that, any idiot can see it will cause a major shitstorm, not to mention removing something is work their programmers have to do.

Sony removed "Other OS" to protect their income, as well as their reputation among both game developers/publishers (for obvious reasons) and gamers (broken security system = online mulitplayer hacking).
Pissing off a handful of homebrewers was the less of 2 evils for them.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102556)

He didn't copy a game though

Obviously, I was referring to the people who do copy games, not him.

Some people like the grandparent poster still think Sony removed it for no reason.

There was a reason, but not a good one. They basically told all of their legitimate customers that they are garbage and fighting and piracy boogeyman takes priority over them.

Sony removed "Other OS" to protect their income, as well as their reputation among both game developers/publishers (for obvious reasons) and gamers (broken security system = online mulitplayer hacking).

Oh, no! Multiplayer hacks! My life is ruined! Sony should remove all of the features on the console and hurt legitimate buyers instead of going after hackers on an individual basis!

Pissing off a handful of homebrewers was the less of 2 evils for them.

As long as you only hurt the minority, anything is okay. Even if they are your legitimate customers.

Re:Not "causality" (0)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102600)

Oh, no! Multiplayer hacks! My life is ruined! Sony should remove all of the features on the console and hurt legitimate buyers instead of going after hackers on an individual basis!

Online cheating it is shit, it makes mulitplayer out right unplayable.
Millions of pissed of gamers vs handful of homebrewers. Pick your poison.

As long as you only hurt the minority, anything is okay. Even if they are your legitimate customers.

Oh, no! No more homebrew! My life is ruined! Sony should do nothing to protect the other millions of gamers who own their console and give them revenue, and allow the Playstation as a gaming brand be tanished by shitty online play !

See I can do that too.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102642)

Millions of pissed of gamers vs handful of homebrewers. Pick your poison.

I choose the third option: ban cheaters on an individual basis. No need to remove features from legitimate buyers and claim the minority doesn't count.

See I can do that too.

The difference being that they never needed to remove any features: they could just ban cheaters when they are caught. All they managed to do was anger even more people by doing this.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102960)

It's might hard to do that, with the hypervisior compromised though, having I believe full rein over the PS3 they could evade detection.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102574)

"He didn't copy a game though, he broke the PS3 security cum DRM system and told the whole damn world how he did it."

Where the hell do you get your information from?

He did do a lot of stuff but he was only a part of the whole. He did find a glitch about a year ago, which may have helped kick things off. Then the dongles came along from PSJailbreak, whoever they are, that broke things wide open and were of course cloned endlessly.

Then failoverflow cracked the system wide open, and geohot took their techniques and cracked it further open again.

And he didn't even tell the world how he did the last bit, much to the annoyance of those whose work he built on.

The kid's good, but he's not the whole story by a long way.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102624)

I read it when Geohot told the entire world how the "glitch" was done - also the was what prompt Sony to remove "Other OS".

Wikipedia confirms it. (I know not the most reliable source; but it would be a hell of a coincident if it ain't true, as it agrees pretty much with what I remember reading)

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102920)

The first glitch that allowed him to dump memory from OtherOS, sure, that was him.

That required a hardware mod and didn't open up the system much at all but it did prompt sony to take away OtherOS in a massive overreaction. Almost as if they were looking for a way to stop supporting it anyway...

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102988)

The first glitch gave him control over the hypervisor allowing him to mess with the PS3 firmware, else I really doubt Sony would react in such a huge manner.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102922)

Sony had already removed the OtherOS from the newer systems by the time GeoHotz opened his big mouth. They didn't even ship the slim model with it. Most likely Sony planned to remove it from older systems as well so they wouldn't have to support two versions of the firmware. Besides they already had money from suckers like me so why should they support a feature that sold the system. GoeHotz was just a convenient excuse.

Re:Not "causality" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102476)

hold on. you meant to say that GeoHot exploited fail0verflow's work, and released the root key purely for the piraters... right?

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102560)

No he is referring to an early hack where he gained control over the PS3's hypervisior by exploit the feature know as "Other OS" and via bus glitching.

Re:Not "causality" (2)

Skarecrow77 (1714214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102528)

you're approaching correct, but you still took a swerve off the road into the bushes of WTFsylvania.

Geohot did manage to pass the hypervisor working through OtherOS. He then told NOBODY how he did it. He boasted that he did it, and the vector he used to get in, but no details at all for anybody to exploit his work for piracy, or even to replicate it. Sony went apeshit though and accelerated plans that were -already in motion- to remove OtherOS post haste. That lit a fire under the collective hackers of the world, which lead to the jailbreak dongle, then failoverflow's work, then geohot's release of the master key, in that order.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102576)

He told you the attack vector ... I think that enough information to replicated it, or at least make it a whole lot easier.

So an MSOffice flaw announced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102604)

So an MSOffice flaw announced and this is enough to hack Windows, eh?

Re:So an MSOffice flaw announced (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102652)

Yes?

A flaw in the way MS Office hands a Word document could result in arbitrary code execution with a maliciously crafted Word document.

PDFs seem to get a lot of these bugs.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102828)

You are aware that OtherOS was removed because Geohotz used it to implement his first hack and it was then used by piraters exploiting Geohotz work?

As I said, it would've happened eventually anyway. And Geohot didn't do it to play pirates, he was just exploring the protections in place and I remember him saying he wanted to access HW accelerated graphics. Oh, not to mention the fact that he actually didn't even mention the exact method he got access to the hypervisor. Sony still proceeded to overreact and removed a feature that many people had actually paid for, just because Geohot managed to PARTIALLY access hypervisor and even though he had not told anyone the actual method to do it themselves.

Feel free to blame Geohot all you want, but it would've happened anyways.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102924)

For one, that doesn't give Sony the right to yank a feature that was duly advertised as a value added feature. As the various class action lawsuits claim, purchasers have been denied "the benefit of their bargain".

Secondly, it's not Geohot's *fault* that the pirates who were looking for an excuse/loophole to pirate decided to use his work. Geohot enabling them doesn't make him an accessory because he did his work independently, and the pirates exploited his work of their own free will. It's not Geohot's responsibility to protect Sony's hardware. That's the job of Sony's R&D department, and certainly not the job of Sony's legal department unless they're going after the actual pirates instead of a convenient scapegoat.

Geohot rightly did as he pleased with his own hardware that he bought and paid for.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

commodore6502 (1981532) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102596)

Sony needs to read this book:
  - FREE - The Radical Price is the Future http://www.audible.com/pd?productID=BK_AVEN_000001 [audible.com]

The internet allows infinite duplication at almost no cost. People know this and are demanding that they can get their goods for free, or almost-free. Sony/Capcom will have to learn to fund themselves via other methods (Chapter 6 - Why Gaming is Free in China) or become irrelevant.

Re:Not "causality" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102694)

Sony pissed on too many toes when they suddenly removed OtherOS. Blaming geohot is simply wrong, blame Sony for being f*cktards in the first place.

OtherOS was removed because of geohot's original attack against PS3 security. Over reaction on Sony's part, yes, but the egomaniac hacker is the one how put things in motion.

Re:Not "causality" (2)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102400)

Well, Sony doesn't really have that strong a hand to play if you think about it.

You either appease game publishers, or they don't develop for you. /shrug

Re:Not "causality" (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102830)

Further, Sony has already lost everyone with principles, so now they can continue to abuse their user base which will continue to suck it down gratefully. Anyone who really believes in freedom of Morality decided to refuse to give Sony any more money after the whole Betamax morality police thing. Anyone who is against Fraud chose to stop giving them money after they killed the Dreamcast by publishing specifications for the PS2 that they knew to be false. Anyone who is against having their computer infected with malware stopped giving them money after the Rootkit debacle. Anyone who loves video gaming stopped giving them money after they summoned satan all over Lik-Sang by suing them in every court in the EU for providing hardware with substantial noncommercial use; but they couldn't even afford to respond to the lawsuits so they closed their doors.

Anyone who still gives Sony money is PART OF THE PROBLEM and every conversation you have with them about video games should begin, continue, and end with how they should stop supporting Sony. Anyone who claims to love games and gaming but still gives Sony money is a hypocrite and the enemy of all gamers.

Re:Not "causality" (1)

quadrox (1174915) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102872)

I wish there were more people like you. Unfortunately most people lose their principles the second they see something shiny they want.

I too have succumbed to temptation a few times, but in general I stick to my principles as much as I can. I too will never support sony, unless they change their ways dramatically. Same goes for Microsoft.

And this includes indirect support as well (buying hardware with licensed-from-sony stuff in it for example)

Re:Not "causality" (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35103018)

I'm still on the fence regarding Microsoft and gaming. On one hand, Microsoft has the evil embrace, extend, extinguish strategy. On the other hand, Microsoft has arguably the most open console (least closed?) of the generation; you can actually develop and release games for an unhacked system without extensive requirements. The PS3 or Wii, of course, has been most opened... by the community. My perception is that there is the most homebrew on the Wii.

It's getting harder and harder to be a gamer. Even old games I love are working less well today, for example Alpha Centauri whose lockup bugs are worse on modern processors due to staggeringly incompetent programming.

Wrong topic (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102166)

The piracy "threats" (which aren't even a threat to begin with) don't cause anything.
Stupid publishers cause DRM and lose customers. End of story.

Apropos Title (2)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102500)

Would you buy a game called Bionic Commando Rear Med? It sounds like a Hemorrhoid Medicine or Mechanized Prostate exam. I bet this is referes to the advanced rectal cancer screening practiced by Goatse. Perhaps it a deranged euphemism for some sexual assualt. perhaps the game "turd burgular 2" was taken.

Re:Wrong topic (1)

Pawnn (1708484) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102972)

I hate DRM as much as the next slashdotter, but I actually know a real case that supports why they do this stuff.

I have a friend who pirated Street Fighter 4 (yep, a Capcom game), loved it, and never bought it. He waited a long time for a pirated version of Super Street Fighter 4 to appear. When it didn't happen, he went ahead and bought it.

He is the reason Capcom and these other companies use DRM.

I'd be interested to know how many people out there are like him as opposed to how many are in the boycott crowd, but it'd be pretty tricky to determine that.

No problem Capcom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102180)

I'll just repackage your stupid game and remove this phone home garbage.

Re:No problem Capcom (1)

Schadrach (1042952) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102484)

Which is precisely what will happen. Hell, I won't be surprised if it doesn't set a new standard for being the most pirated PS3 game ever just out of spite.

Don't give your paying customers a reason to quit (4, Insightful)

mykos (1627575) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102192)

Pirates will pirate.
Buyers will buy.
But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (4, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102230)

If this scheme seems to work other games will follow - as will other publishers.

So by avoiding buying the games you are sending a clear signal to the publisher that this is method that isn't acceptable.

And what happens if there is a DoS attack on the servers?

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102246)

"And what happens if there is a DoS attack on the servers?"

They already have your money at that time, they likely wouldn't care.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (0)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102254)

Another reason it's not acceptable is because I often take my console with me to hotels, whether it's the PS, the Nintendo, or the Xbox, and often they don't provide more than one internet line (which is used for my laptop).

Also the kids in my family don't have their consoles connected online, so that means we'd all have games that refuse to play because they cannot "phone home" to the Game manufacturer's website.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102616)

Also the kids in my family don't have their consoles connected online, so that means we'd all have games that refuse to play because they cannot "phone home" to the Game manufacturer's website.

Ditto with My kids.
They don't have internet-connected consoles, so how are they supposed to play Capcom games? I guess Capcom lost several million customers with this decision.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1, Insightful)

Spad (470073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102542)

No you're not and that's the problem. By not buying the game you're sending a clear signal that you found a way to pirate it and so they need to add even more draconian anti-piracy measures to their next release.

Hi Ubisoft!

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (4, Insightful)

Shrike82 (1471633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102584)

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, it's preaching to the converted here I think. The problem is all the people out there who buy games without really giving a crap about the important issues. Fallout 3 and New Vegas for example. Horribly buggy on the PC upon release, still crashing to desktop regularly despite a swathe of patches and no-one is really that up in arms about it (probably because it's still a good game despite the bugs). Similar case, and something on British news today - Black Ops. Released with what seems like a hastily cobbled together multiplayer framework that left a significant proportion of the player base unable to use the multiplayer aspect of the game at all, and it's still like that today. The publisher gives assurances about working with gamers to fix it, but what they'd really like is for everyone to just shut up and swallow the pill. As long as there are people out there willing to for out £40-50 on a game that's broken at release, or has intrusive DRM stuffed everywhere, this kind of behaviour and this approach to selling games will continue.

This is why is adamantly defend Valve and their "it'll be late but by God it'll work" approach to releasing games, arguments over Steam as DRM aside.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (2)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102856)

It would be nice if people didn't buy it and capcom got that message; however that isn't going to happen. If the game sells well, capcom will hail it as a victory and this method will spread to other games quickly. If the game doesn't sell well, capcom will likely attribute the lack of sales to things other than the DRM.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

mvar (1386987) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102234)

But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.

This. Also, instead of investing so much money into DRM research, they could just cut game prices and see their sales go up. $80/60euro per game? Please.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102376)

Well said Mykos...

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (2)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102424)

No idea why publishers are so obsessed with DRM.

So either it really does increase sales, or they are crazy.
No one spends millions on some tech (DRM in this case) when there is no return.

I'm not supporting this BS BTW, just wondering why.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

gslavik (1015381) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102452)

Mostly because everyone thinks they got the silver bullet.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (3, Insightful)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102474)

For some reason, control is more important than profit to some companies.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (2)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102832)

You seem to think this is something that they experimentally test in a lab and determine to be true or false. Reality is that game launches are so unique depending on so many factors both internal to the game and external in the market that nobody really can measure it. The same game has never launched at the same time in the same way both with and without DRM - and if you did that'd be pointless because it would essentially be like launching without DRM.

Publishers do things they think contribute positively into this mix. More marketing is better than less marketing, less bugs is better than more bugs but many things are unknown like if they'd gone with game play style X instead of Y. Or whether they should apply DRM and if so what kind. That is in fact just guesswork, sometimes educated guesswork and sometimes just pure belief.

It's a little bit like your health, very complicated thing. Everybody knows some things are healthy and some things are not, but some things are more belief than anything else. For example what the best way to lose weight is, I've heard roughly as many theories as the number of people I've talked to. Same with exercise and how you should exercise. People are more acting out of belief than fact, and game publishers are just like that.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (4, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102464)

How can you blame these poor little companies for implementing DRM? If one person copies a game, all must suffer! If you were a legitimate buyer, you'd know that...

Oh, and, this is all Geohot's fault, not the people implementing the DRM or removing the features to feed their paranoia! That's right. All buyers must receive defective products because some people copy games. This makes sense to those of us who don't steal profit that doesn't yet exist.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102558)

Interesting anecdote; I've always purchased games, right the way from the original Worms on the PC (on floppy disks, came with an "un-photocopyable" code book) all the way through to Prototype. NOT ONE game on my various computers over the years up until that point was unlicensed.
 
Games I now have which are unlicensed:
- Mass Effect 2
- Command and Conquer 4
- Assassin's Creed 2
 
What do they have in common? They all work without an internet connection.
 
Captcha: Garbages

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102614)

But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.

So true. The first thing I do after buying a game that requires online activation, is to search for a crack. I like to own what I buy. No publisher is trustworthy enough to expect their DRM servers will be up and running in a year or two. No crack, no sale.

While I'm looking for a crack, I might as well grab the DLC off pirated sites too, because in the case of EA and the like, they each require online activation and there are no separate cracks.

Results? Lost sales if the game has no working crack for the current patch because I'll buy something else. Plus lost sales for DLC because I already paid for the full game and don't want to lose the DLC because they go out of business or decide to turn off their servers. I really want to pay for games but lately all that rent-only DRM crap makes it harder and harder.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102638)

Pirates will Pirate
Buyers will give up and do something else .....

The last DRM'ed game I bought took so long and so much hassle to get updated, running etc that it was easier and less hassle to download a hacked version and play that rather than the legit one I owned ...!

DVDs are the same, the legit ones have so much unskippable rubbish on them that I consider getting a pirated version so I can watch the movie I have payed for ...

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (1)

cob666 (656740) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102774)

This is an interesting point. Technically (perhaps not legally but I don't know if this has been challenged in court yet), if you have already purchased the game does it matter if you download a hacked version because it's easier to play?
I regularly do this with PC games that require the CD be in to play, I will purchase the game and then download the No-CD crack for it.

Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102754)

Actually, the Sony forced firmware updates stopped me from purchasing new games.

Capcom on-line activation guarantees I wont buy their product regardless.

Buyers WONT buy.

PC? (0)

bobbinspenguin (1988368) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102198)

Okay, the article's about the PSN but it doesn't say whether or not they're gonna apply the same kind of DRM to other servers Ubisoft-style on PC. Steam should be DRM enough for these games companies.

I dont think so (4, Insightful)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102202)

The pirates will have a work around for this about a week after it comes out. It's the non-pirates that will have problems with it.

It's No Big Deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102204)

That's okay, we can just patch it out while we're removing the rest of the DRM.

-The Pirates

The Timing Is Odd (1)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102222)

The odd thing about this is that even with the release of the console's important keys, it's still not practical to pirate PSN games. You can pirate PS3 games that come on a disc until you're blue in the face, but the tools don't exist to do so with newer PSN games - as a result only a small number of them can be pirated at the moment.

Either Capcom knows something we don't know or they're preparing for the inevitable, because right now you'd be hard pressed to pirate BCR2 even without phone-home DRM.

Re:The Timing Is Odd (1)

brandorf (586083) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102458)

My understanding is that this protection stops the "causal sharing" of PSN games, i.e. the Sony supplied ability to install your PSN games on five different PS3s. Currently I can create a user account for myself, log in to PSN and download any game from my PSN account, and so long as that user account is on the PS3, they have access to those games, without needing my PSN account details beyond that (i.e. I don't have to give them my password). This additional protection would prevent that.

Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102228)

I have made bad experiences with this kind of copy protection on the PC (Spore). I'm a busy person and when I want to play, I want to play immediately---no delay, not even just 10 seconds, is accptable. Unfortunately, in the case of Spore for some reason the server was occasionally down. (Of course, in this particular case it didn't make much of a difference, because I didn't really want to play Spore after I tried it anyway.)

Re:Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102284)

See, I played a pirated copy of Spore and never had any problems with it. Didn't even know it originally had it

(I wanted to see what it was like. Wasn't expecting to like it, and I was right. Wouldn't have bought it anyway)

Keep it (1)

Skylinux (942824) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102258)

It just went through the hassle of dealing with Steam support because I was unable to access my account to play Civ V.
Response time was a little over 24 hours and they call this customer service.

This was the last time I purchased a game with DRM because only pirated DRM games are customer friendly!

Re:Keep it (1, Informative)

Spad (470073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102562)

Not to defend Steam here, but 24 hours isn't a bad resolution time for a service which, to my knowledge, doesn't actually have any stated SLAs for support.

It's 24 hours longer than it had to be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102708)

It's 24 hours longer than it had to be, as if it were not Steam DRM but an actual game purchased and owned by Skylinux.

And that's his point. 24 hours wait because of DRM is 24 hours wait longer than if there were no DRM, why does it matter that it would be 20 days if it was Ubisoft?

Re:Keep it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102674)

"Response time was a little over 24 hours and they call this customer service."?

Considering how many users, games and possible problems that one could come across, report, query to Steam support i'd say 24 hours is actually great customer service.

As for "only pirated DRM games are customer friendly", technically you're not a customer...

Re:Keep it (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102868)

Try playing a Steam-powered game on a marginal internet connection sometime. It will take longer to connect to your Steam account than it will to launch the damned game. Or you can set offline mode and then it STILL connects to Steam. WTF?

I generally like Capcom... (1)

kikito (971480) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102266)

But with they can stick that game where the sun doesn't shine, for me. I hope it sells really bad.

Re:I generally like Capcom... (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102582)

Indeed.

I must say, it's kinda nice of Capcom to give such a clear and unambiguous reason not to buy "Bionic Commando Rearmed 2" -- often it's kind of hard to decide whether to buy a game ("is it worth the money?".. "do I trust reviewer X?"... "should I finish up those other games first ...?"), but no such problem here....

Who exactly gets hurt here? (2)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102272)

When a pirate throws a game at their console they get: a working game, with no call-home, most likely no requirement for stable internet connection, and a hassle-free gameplay experience. A legitimate user gets: a mostly working game, with call-home, requirement for a stable internet connection, and definitely not hassle-free gameplay experience should there be issues with the connection.

Basically, this won't affect pirates at all. There is simply nothing stopping from someone releasing a crack for this game and it'll work just as peachy as ever. It's only legitimate customers being hurt here.

When are game companies going to learn?

I just don't get it (2)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102290)

I have a collection of old game systems and enjoy playing them regularly. I just can't get my head around these current schemes. I am I right that it will be impossible to collect something like the PS3 and this Capcom game and play it 15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

Re:I just don't get it (2)

bobbinspenguin (1988368) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102336)

15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

T&Cs - "Capcom reserve the right to shutdown the servers and use them for a newer game which people are now paying for thus screwing you out of your purchased product. Tick the box and click next if you understand this or just can't be bothered reading it".

Re:I just don't get it (3, Insightful)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102370)

I have a collection of old game systems and enjoy playing them regularly. I just can't get my head around these current schemes. I am I right that it will be impossible to collect something like the PS3 and this Capcom game and play it 15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

That's the whole plan: they don't want you to be able to play it 15 years from now, they want you to keep on buying.

As for the DRM itself: sure, they _could_ release an update a few years from now that would disable the call-home feature. But there is no guarantee that they will. And even if they did then you'd have to go to lengths to preserve a copy of that update in case you have to re-format the HDD or something because it simply won't be available on any live servers anymore after so many years.

Re:I just don't get it (1)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102532)

Microprose did that for X-COM: UFO Defense --- the 1.4? patch, released after the game was in bargain bins, removed the (manual-based) copy protection.

That should become the industry policy for such situations.

William

Re:I just don't get it (2)

garynuman (1666499) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102386)

Well i guess you could buy the game for the packaging, leave it unopened, and pirate a DRM free copy for its actual playability... that being said as an avid gamer I will now think twice before purchasing a capcom game. I prefer to patronize companies who at least pay passing respect to that "treat people the way you would like to be treated"

Re:I just don't get it (1)

Bender Unit 22 (216955) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102414)

In 15 years, you are expected to buy it again this time an version ported to the console in use at that time.
The whole DRM thing, made me give up gaming on the PC(starforce made my hw look defective and i ended up buying new HW i didnt need) and lately I have given up on console also.
Mostly because the have gotten the clever idea to sell a game at 110$(local price converted to $) which is only half the game. The rest you have to buy via DLC, so it is locked to you account or console and the resell value of the game is lower.

Re:I just don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102682)

Download stores are your friends (Gamersgate, Impulse, D2D to name a few, there are dozens; or directly from the developer). They usually offer good prices (not the absurd "local" prices) , great download speed and regular discounts. I'm exclusively buying there these days. However I only buy a game if I made sure there's a crack available, if the game comes with DRM (these sites state the kind of DRM used for most games).

Bionic DRM (1)

ZuchinniOne (1617763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102304)

We're so sorry that we created such an awful DRM system without telling you what we were doing ... to fix that problem and regain the trust of our customers we will now tell you exactly how badly our DRM system will screw over legitimate users. But at least we know that no one can find any way to crack the airtight PS3 security lockdown.

And next time we come out with a game we'll make sure to have a completely non-invasive DRM scheme that simply involves implanting a CAPCOM chip in your frontal lobe so that you can be our very own little Bionic DRM Commander.

Getting Tired (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102340)

This is getting old. I'm a legit non jailbroken owner of 2 Ps3 consoles. I've always been in favor of opening the system up and once they removed the OtherOs function I felt it was right, but now I'm getting pissed. Constant updates, everything comes as a required update. Anytime I feel like playing a game for a few minutes there's a freaking psn update required. Half of them strickly anti-piracy. Now some games are implementing online DRM. Now if the game has decent multiplayer functionality I'd almost agree with it, but I like to solo play like anyone, so forcing my psn to be logged on to play an offline game is lame, but I can get past it if the game deserves it.

But the fact that all of this effects me a legit player, while none of this will in any way stop the pirates. The pirates will find a way around it, just like they did with Ubisoft. So one of the other posters is correct, keep it up sony, Cinavi, constant updates, online DRM, keep doing it and you are isolating your legit customers who are actually buying your physical discs. We can easily switch teams and play for free and you can just suck on it.

Prevent Game Sharing (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102372)

I think this method is more to prevent game sharing then piracy.

Most PSN items can be installed on up to 5 consoles, so that account doesn't have to be logged in. DLC costs are a lot more palatable when you split them 5 ways but still get the same product. With this new account requirement the practice will go away.

Re:Prevent Game Sharing (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102522)

Yupe. That seems to be the official reason.

http://kotaku.com/5751122/why-would-a-game-with-no-online-play-require-an-online-connection

The PS3 is the last console (4, Interesting)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102524)

I buy. I have 2 PS3's in my home one for the kids and one for me. I game on the average 5 to 10 hours a week.

It was fun at the beginning with OtherOS. In regards to peoples complaint about pirates and cheating, I find it's more an issue of poor development. I do not see any noticeable change. Sometimes I'm in a game of BC2 that I can't seem to hit anything even when I empty 100 rounds in the back of some unsuspecting chap. Other times it feels that every confrontation I'm in I win. This applies to almost all MP games, CoDMW, MAG and so on... It's nothing new and it has not changed much since the jailbreak.

I bought the systems for entertainment and in most cases to clear my mind form the day to day issues. Since Sony removed the Other OS I find the PS3 more of a means of frustration than a means of entertainment. Most of the time I have under an hour to play. These constant updates take over 15 minutes to complete and won't work in the background. Once installed and rebooted you go through a 2 to 5 minute wait just to get in to load the game and view all the ads. Once you're finally in you get a no games available message. It used to happen occasionally. Since the last update it seams to happen 4 out of 5 times. I initially thought it was my cable provider until I started researching on the net.

My PS3's are no longer entertaining for MP purposes. I'm not alone, most of my friends got fed up before me. I'm not interested in SP games with the same problems. It's time to jailbreak and pirate, in this way I will still get some entertainment from my console. All this to say I will never purchase anymore products from Sony let alone any draconian DRM laden sh1t unless the attitude changes.

Re:The PS3 is the last console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102826)

Join the club. My last Sony (hey, that sounds like a marketing slogan!) was an MHC-1100 stereo set. After a while, it started refusing to play newly-bought CDs: I had to make a copy of every copy-protected disc to be able to play it as intended.

That was even before the whole rootkit controversy (with the now-famous CEO quote "if people don't know what a rootkit is, why should they care about it"), and before the whole let's-include-encrypted-machine-code-on-every-disc Blu-Ray introduction. Sony (c.s.) is the very reason why I will never allow any (DLNA) media device on my home network unless I can flash it with custom firmware.

Quite frankly, I have no sympathy for people getting upset after buying a PS3. It's not like you couldn't have seen this coming.

A bit late for that (1)

BetterSense (1398915) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102864)

PS2 was the last actual games console, IMO. Since then, nobody has made an actual games console. The instant 'consoles' started practically requiring internet connections and firmware updates, they stopped being game consoles, and became something else. The console is dead. Long live the console!

Re:The PS3 is the last console (1)

sustik (90111) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102882)

Constant 15 minutes updates? Ads!?

It is like you are in an abusive relationship, but cannot walk away... I am serious: you are taking an abuse that a normal person would not tolerate. Maybe there is something to game addiction.
"to clear my mind form the day to day issues." - try exercise, sports, scrabble, jigsaw puzzle, listen to music as an alternative.
I wish you well.

Re:The PS3 is the last console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35102904)

I'm with you. I would not have bought the PS3 if not for OtherOS. I've used the console to play with Linux in OtherOS almost as much as I've used it for gaming.

Now, all the games I bought are crippled (no more online play) because I won't update my firmware and lose OtherOS. I used to recommend the PS3 over the XBox to all my friends, and this is how Sony repaid me - a legal consumer who never pirated anything. I feel totally screwed over.

I have owned nearly every console ever made, but this is where I draw the line. Unless Sony re-introduces the OtherOS function so I can regain online play or sends me back my money, I'm not even considering buying any more of their products nor any more games for my PS3 from third parties. And, I'll be damned if I don't relate my story to everyone thinking of buying anything from Sony.

It's not related to the recent hack.... (1)

Badaro (594482) | more than 3 years ago | (#35102994)

...but rather a result of Sony's strange DRM implementation.

The way it's designed, the full version of a game can be downloaded in up to 5 different consoles. People noticed this, and started abusing this system by creating "sharing groups" of five people using a single account for purchases, therefore getting their games for 1/5 the cost.

Publishers obviously didn't like this, which lead to this "Phone Home" stupidity.

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