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China Building City For Cloud Computing

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the lando-for-mayor dept.

Cloud 142

CWmike writes "First it was China's 'big hole' sighting that brought us the supercomputing race. Now China is building a city-sized cloud computing and office complex that will include a mega data center, one of the projects fueling that country's double-digit growth in IT spending. The entire complex will cover some 6.2 million square feet, with the initial data center space accounting for approximately 646,000 square feet, says IBM, which is collaborating with a Chinese company to build it. A Sputnik moment? Patrick Thibodeau reports that these big projects, whether supercomputers or sprawling software development office parks, can garner a lot of attention. But China's overall level of IT spending, while growing rapidly, is only one-fifth that of the US."

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How convient (4, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35134924)

Hey look, I can store all my data on Chinese government owned computing equipment where they can read it at will and the government can then threaten to cut me off from said data unless I pay them a bribe! I can get all this for slightly less than I'm paying now! I'd be a fool not to!

Re:How convient (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35134938)

How convenient also that there is only one, centralized target to take out in order to wipe out a huge portion of communication infrastructure.

Re:How convient (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35134966)

How convenient also that there is only one, centralized target to take out in order to wipe out a huge portion of communication infrastructure.

How convenient also that there is only one, centralized target to take over in order to initiate the robot uprising.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135454)

At the slightest sign of hard takeoff vaporize it!

On a second thought nuke it even earlier - it's the only way to be sure. I wouldn't like to live in an Asian dystopia.

Re:How convient (1)

stranger_to_himself (1132241) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136498)

I wouldn't like to live in an Asian dystopia.

Really? I think the food would improve.

Second rebranding in months (1)

Suki I (1546431) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137428)

They already have a cloud city [digitaljournal.com] featured in the movie Avatar. Now it is going to be 'cloud computing city'. What is next? 3D cloud computing city?*

*Stupid /. will not let me write in Chinese!

Re:How convient (3, Interesting)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#35134980)

Almost spot on.

You forgot the regular bribe to the party official in charge of the facility so he does not sell access to your data to your competitor as well as bribes for everyone and everything under him for this same reason.

It is quite funny when people call China communist. It is capitalism taken to the ultimate limit where anything and everything is for sale with very few of the moral restrictions which the West has inherited from the 20 centuries of its "Sunday school" upbringing.

Re:How convient (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136018)

You forgot the regular bribe to the party official

It's not a bribe. Consider it a "facilitation fee." My father worked for a company that was looking to win a big contract in Southeast Asia. It is illegal for US companies to pay bribes abroad. So they hired a local "consultant" to help them win the contract. He got paid $1 million for his "services." What he did with the money, was his business. The company won the contract. How much of the money stayed in the "consultant's" pocket, and how much landed in the pockets of other folks, nobody wanted to know.

Re:How convient (1)

somegeekynick (1011759) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137512)

It is illegal for US companies to pay bribes abroad.

I wasn't aware that it was O.K. for US companies to be involved in bribery locally.

In Soviet Russia ... (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135006)

someone will make a retarded joke about data owning you or something ...

in 3

2

1

that new look makes /. uglier th/ lemonparty.org (0)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135160)

fuck you you stupid moron, I hope you choke on a pretzel then drown in your own redbull/mcdo flavoured shit

Re:In Soviet Russia ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135724)

...retarded joke is you.

A Sputnik moment? (2)

billstewart (78916) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135046)

Or a Dubai Tower moment?

Re:A Sputnik moment? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35137624)

A Sputnik moment? Bah! The very fact that Obama was able to inject this sorry catch-phrase into the public consciousness is a sad joke. The best Obammy can muster these days is to conjure up images from their glory days to try to keep his sheep from realizing that their empire is crumbling around them. If Obammy was serious about competing, he'd give teachers' unions the boot and concentrate on REAL education reform, not just throwing more gobs of cash that is the current sinkhole known as the U.S. Dept. of Education.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135106)

I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

Re:How convient (4, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135180)

Hey look, I can store all my data on Chinese government owned computing equipment where they can read it at will and...

...my encrypted data still won't make a lick of sense to anyone but me!
"I'd be a fool not to" use encryption.

Re:How convient (2)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135306)

Except for the fact that they still own the physical hardware, a lot of papers have been published that pretty much state that it's actually not very difficult to get the encryption keys to a running system if you have control of the hardware. So yeah, encryption isn't nearly as useful in this situation as you would think.

Re:How convient (2)

Lazareth (1756336) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135494)

Depends really on how you're handling the encryption. If the encrypted data at all times is stored in an encrypted state on site and a remote computer only ever requests encrypted parts of the data, only decrypting and handling it locally, it suddenly becomes a whole lot harder for the owner of the datacenter to fuck you over.

Sure, if you're just doing a l33t SSH tunnel to a linux based remote system, log into and decrypt your protected home folder, then you're pretty much decrypting it for those who has access to the hardware.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35137246)

Right, then the Ministry of Culture says you must be hiding immoral content there and cuts off your access until you provide the encryption key and pay a fine. At which point you've either lost the data, or your using a non-Chinese backup. If the later why the frack are you bothering with the Chinese dataceter anyway?

Re:How convient (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136348)

Not if he encrypts the data before sending it to them. Then they don't have the key. They just have a random series of bytes.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136306)

The government has a lot of resources. If they wanted to dedicate to decrypting your data, they can do it. Albeit it would take a long time, but still.

Re:How convient (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136370)

Nope. Especially if you you use a one time pad, the government will never, ever be able to decrypt your data. What they can do, however, is seize your computer equipment and get the key from there, since I doubt anyone is going to be carrying around a multi-megabyte sequence of numbers in their heads.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136310)

and the NSA and CIA who co-opt google etc don't do the same....spooks run the world...lol

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136320)

Yes, I too love being woken in the middle of the night repeatedly by automated pages stating all of my critical services are down until I remote in and enter a passphrase to restart all the servers/services needing access to that data, after verifying I am actually logged into my own machines and not redirected to some keylogging honeynet...

But they told me encryption will solve all my problems, so I'd be a fool not to!

Re:How convient (1)

xnpu (963139) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135498)

Until Goldman Sachs takes over the Chinese government like it has the US government, yes, stuff will be owned by the Chinese government directly. What's your point?

Re:How convient (1)

andre1s (1688402) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135648)

Y this is So different from US were service providers will not provide access to my data without warrant (oh wait they will) :)

Re:How convient (2)

plasticsquirrel (637166) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136118)

Why do you think that this new cloud system has anything to do with you, or that they would try to appeal to you? Chinese networks and Chinese websites rarely have English equivalents, or attempt to provide them. It seems a bit self-centered and presumptuous to think that this "cloud" is an overblown trap aimed squarely at you. We don't even know if its services will be open to the Chinese public, much less foreigners.

Re:How convient (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136344)

Unfortunately, that is EXACTLY how some business people will see it.

For me, it would be a matter of trust. Today's business people do not care about that -- just the short-term bottom line. We will need to see more egregious acts by the Chinese government before anyone will sit up and take notice. And I predict there will be and the victims will be the customers of the business that trusts China with too much data. The decision makers will get away with it as they always have until there is a law which says it is illegal.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136372)

And whats the difference ?, you get the RIAA after you butt, while a chineese simply gets disconnected without paying RIAA.

You know those political systems are not that much different, your have been told by your government that your system works.
But so are people in other systems; and only the smart people understand that both systems suck.

Re:How convient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136458)

OTOH wouldn't spooks love to have a few servers on the other side of the Great Firewall "just in case."

Re:How convient (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136466)

Anyone entertaining cloud computing without having some way of doing end-to-end encryption AND having a way to guarantee you have physical control over your backups is putting a huge amount of trust in their provider, regardless of who it is.

Re:How convient (2)

LS (57954) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137802)

Hey look, I can store all my data on Chinese government owned computing equipment where they can read it at will and the government can then threaten to cut me off from said data unless I pay them a bribe! I can get all this for slightly less than I'm paying now! I'd be a fool not to!

Do you seriously think that other data centers in China are not directly accessible by the government?

I for one... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35134976)

Welcome our new chinese world overlords.

This isn't a joke. They're going to be the next world empire. Again.
Because the rest of us are going to be living in idiocracy and 1984.

Forget Death Rays (2)

dmomo (256005) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135016)

Who needs one when you can build a City-sized DOS cannon.

Re:Forget Death Rays (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136240)

Or take out the entire "cloud" (condensed maybe?) by just taking out this one city. I thought the cloud was supposed to be diffuse, not centralized.

Re:Forget Death Rays (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136404)

In today's world of curated computing, "cloud" computing is centralized, and empowers the vendor instead of you.

1/5 of spending? (4, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135024)

Who cares about the absolute figure, anyway, it's the bang for the buck that's important. Soviet space program was cheaper than US one as well.

Re:1/5 of spending? (2)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135122)

Who cares about the absolute figure, anyway, it's the bang for the buck that's important. Soviet space program was cheaper than US one as well.

That's right. Not the cost is important, but the profit.

Re:1/5 of spending? (1)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135138)

It might be "only one-fifth that of the US" right now but I would imagine that is going to grow pretty quickly as China develops.

Investment for the future and all that...

Re:1/5 of spending? (1)

symes (835608) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135570)

I like to dabble in stocks and shares occasionally and would like to jump on the China growth curve. But every time I get anywhere near to deciding a strategy I get cold feet. The main reason being Chinese contracts just seem like Chinese lanterns, so ephemeral. How anything gets done in that country is beyond me - yet we keep seeing these monumental projects. I think it is all smoke and mirrors... and I for one don't know how real any of this Chinese IT stuff is.

Re:1/5 of spending? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136396)

The main reason being Chinese contracts just seem like Chinese lanterns, so ephemeral.

I know exactly [telegraph.co.uk] what you mean. But there's a way to deal with risk. Make small investments and don't be greedy. Worst that can happen is you lose your investment - but if it wasn't that much to begin with, who cares. If you go all in though, you are a fool and deserve to be parted from your money.

Re:1/5 of spending? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135912)

Plus the cost of programmers in China is way cheaper than in US and that is part of the overall IT spending.

Re:1/5 of spending? (1)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137312)

it's the bang for the buck that's important. Soviet space program was cheaper than US one as well.

Very good point- I'm pretty sure that this "one fifth" buys a whole lot more that fivefold in China that it does in the US of A

then it's so efficient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135034)

one-fifth the cost, dealing with four times the population

Re:then it's so efficient (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135134)

one-fifth the cost, dealing with four times the population

Let me point out that, with the deprecation rate we are seeing now for computers, once they finish building it, they'll need to start the upgrade cycle. And keep cycling: over a certain size, maintenance becomes a nightmare.

How many people you need to lift, solely by their arms power, 1 cubic meter of lead?

Re:then it's so efficient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135540)

How many people you need to lift, solely by their arms power, 1 cubic meter of lead?

One. It's called leverage.

Re:then it's so efficient (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135808)

How many people you need to lift, solely by their arms power, 1 cubic meter of lead?

One. It's called leverage.

And a huge pile of fools to buy the derivatives

Awesome (3, Funny)

ZirconCode (1477363) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135038)

And in two years it will be just as obsolete as square feet.

Re:Awesome (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135140)

And in two years it will be just as obsolete as square feet.

Does it mean "never"?

The Empire Strikes Back (1)

hpa (7948) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135078)

... at Cloud City.

Re:The Empire Strikes Back (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137344)

... at Cloud City.

Wrong number; this is Crowd City.

Or mega firewall? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135084)

You sure this isn't some giant cloud based firewall that does deep-level packet inspection for all in-bound and out-bound traffic? Authority demand power in all its forms, naturally.

Cloud City? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135100)

Oblig. to try and see if they will agree to call it Bespin.

Re:Cloud City? (1)

BearRanger (945122) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135114)

No, they will call it Stratos. It predates Bespin, and it's residents are clearly outnumbered by the billions of Troglytes doing all the real work.

Just muscle politics (3, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135174)

Software is more important than hardware today. The whole cloud computing movement shows that in many cases hardware is just a cheap commodity. This datacenter is some politicians building themselves a monument and pretending to be ahead or at least on the same level with the west. This is just a lot of hot air, but otherwise quite irrelevant. Building a large datacenter is pretty easy, once you have the cash, and does not show any level of technological sophistication.

Re:Just muscle politics (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135230)

Your post shows perfectly why iPhone app developers shouldn't be consulted with for advice on commercial infrastructure.

So typical for Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135210)

Instead of looking at the trend and extrapolate this to the next 10 years they say: "oh, but it's only one-fifth of what we are spending."
Maybe there is 5 times less pocket filling as their main motivation is not profit (yet) but innovation.

"One Fifth" may not be as small as it looks.. (2)

ikejam (821818) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135214)

One fifth of the US IT spending may buy a lot more in China.... both in labour and in material...

Re:"One Fifth" may not be as small as it looks.. (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135780)

One fifth of the US IT spending may buy a lot more in China.... both in labour and in material...

Agreed, but the problem with that argument is that an hour later you're hungry for ... and you wind spending ... ah, nevermind.

well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135218)

If I were a country leader who didn't like china. I'd know the 1st spot to place a missile.

Re:well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136474)

Would said spot be your own country five times over? At least that would be the response to an attack on a PR project like this.

Sounds good but... (1)

susanpinky (1992050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135246)

Looks like a massive project. But the question is... is it going to benefit us at all...

IT spending 1/5th but actual costs 1/300th? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135278)

"But China's overall level of IT spending, while growing rapidly, is only one-fifth that of the US."

But it's what they get for that one-fifth given that their costs are so much lower. I've heard a number like 1/300th of the cost relative to the US but as I can't remember where I heard it feel free to ignore this statistic.

Same concept applies when they state that Chinese military spending is less than the US...maybe in actual USD but not in what they get for that money.

IBM didn't help the Soviets gain the know how (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135296)

Just another example of American companies selling their souls and technology to the chinese. In 5 years time the Chinese be competing with IBM to setup these services, and everyone will wonder why we let it happen. It already happened with bullet trains.

Re:IBM didn't help the Soviets gain the know how (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135718)

Yes, because before the 1970s American high speed rail was the best in the world.

One fifth (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135338)

But China's overall level of IT spending, while growing rapidly, is only one-fifth that of the US.

How much does the US spend on software (Which the chinese will get for free) and labour (which is much cheaper in china)?
Spending is not an absolute guide, the chinese have significantly lower costs in some areas than the US does.

Re:One fifth (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136478)

How much does the US spend on software (Which the chinese will get for free)

Now, if only there was such a thing as free software in America.

6 million square feet... (3, Interesting)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135360)

My buddy is a commercial real estate agent in the Palo Alto/Menlo Park/Sunnyvale (so, Silicon Valley) area, and let me tell you, there's ALOT more than 6 million square feet of office space available to rent. The number may sound impressive, but it's nothing compared to what they have in Northern California alone. I mean, the Oracle campus in Redwood City is over 4 million square feet all by itself.

Of course, it's not about the space, but what you do with it...

Re:6 million square feet... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135634)

I liked this and I feel great to be here.
===========
SEO services [sapiencebpo.com]

The Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135386)

They're so brilliant. They just whisk flawless environmental impact statements through their streamlined and efficient environmental bureaucracy, each one a model of corporate citizenship and ethics. Plus, they power their giant data centers with love, not dirty coal like us stupid westerners. The Chinese would never tolerate the pollution and contamination inherent with coal, unlike we overweight corporate consumer-droids.

If only we were so smart...

Not to worry; we're still #1. They're only spending half as much as us, see? A dollar doesn't buy any more labor or energy in China than it does here. That dollar is just as heavily taxed in China, too. So obviously we're still way ahead.

Good luck getting your kid out of the house before 35.

Re:The Chinese (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136428)

They just whisk flawless environmental impact statements through their streamlined and efficient environmental bureaucracy,

Kinda like oil companies do in the US when people start being concerned about the seals and polar bears in the Gulf of Mexico, huh.

Words from the wise (1)

FreeAsInFreedoooooom (1992096) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135492)

"The term “cloud computing” is a marketing buzzword with no clear meaning. It is used for a range of different activities whose only common characteristic is that they use the Internet for something beyond transmitting files. Thus, the term is a nexus of confusion. If you base your thinking on it, your thinking will be vague.

When thinking about or responding to a statement someone else has made using this term, the first step is to clarify the topic. Which kind of activity is the statement really about, and what is a good, clear term for that activity? Once the topic is clear, the discussion can head for a useful conclusion. " - Richard Stallman

"One reason you should not use web applications to do your computing is that you lose control," he said. "It's just as bad as using a proprietary program. Do your own computing on your own computer with your copy of a freedom-respecting program. If you use a proprietary program or somebody else's web server, you're defenceless. You're putty in the hands of whoever developed that software."

Re:Words from the wise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135778)

LOL, that second part is really out of place... As if all companies and/or people have the kind of money, skills and experience needed to provide their own computing power and to develop/maintain their own local software solution.

The Software as a Service model allows the use of certain software at really low prices. Building your own open-source based software (or deploying an already fitting software package) and hosting it locally will often cost quite a bit more than buying the services of a SaaS company. Yes, you lose control and yes, you're depending on a medium that is not guaranteed (the internet), but you often get a much bigger return on investment than by doing everything yourself...
Throwing away things like SaaS and IaaS off-hand without a second thought only clearly illustrates that either Stallman was misquoted, he oversimplified, or that he has no understanding whatsoever of business realities. All three options are distinct possibilities, but a combination of all three is quite likely.

Why the scare-mongering? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135500)

Let me get this right, we're panicking that China might be taking over us technologically because they're planning to build a humongous data-center using...chips from American companies like IBM, Intel, AMD and Nvidia. Despite being multinational companies, these companies are all headquartered in the US, with a substantial portion of their staff (especially the execs and higher-skilled ones) based in the US.

A Sputnik moment would be if China build a world-class data-center using its own chips, designed and manufactured wholly within China that was also better than the ones in US.

This story is an absolute coup for American technology. China is going to give us a bucket-load of money for these chips (CPU/GPU etc). And as long as they're spending money buying these chips, they're not spending that same money improving their ability to design/manufacture their own chips and they'll always be behind as they're effectively buying commodity technology (rather than bleeding edge).

Re:Why the scare-mongering? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135988)

Wake up.

Indigenously-designed "Godson" CPUs are produced in China by a French conglomerate called ST Microelectronics.

The latest Godson-3 has x86 emulation.

Not a cent need go to Intel or AMD.

Chinese don't need bigger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135536)

Chinese are known to use what they have efficiently, and it's not necessary to be big as American fallacy. Look at their population.

Chinese don't have square feet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135538)

6.2 million square feet is about 600000 m^2.
646000 square feet is about 60000 m^2.

watch your spamfilter go up in smoke (1)

stiller (451878) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135626)

This is going to be even better than when Nigeria got internet connectivity. I can't wait for even fasters ways of getting Google Translate'd business proposals.

Data-Alien (1)

JoeThoughtful (1945502) | more than 3 years ago | (#35135700)

The data-alien is touching down all over the planet! Oh what fun! Data and computation and evolutionary principles grow into conscious-like clouds of swirling people posts and product purchases. There really are no countries anymore; just money looking for fine places to grow. Who would have thought that money has a mind of its own? Luckily we humans need our money plants and the data-alien just like we need our laws and list of friends. Oh the poetry of our modern times. There is no east versus west, only money doing its thing where it finds itself. The world is just a bunch of people coexisting with money and data - just fine I think.

...and the USA is building wind farms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35135828)

``China Building City For Cloud Computing'' -- scientific progress, business development etc., vs. ``US To Fire Up Big Offshore Wind Energy Projects'' -- populism towards tree-hugging hippies, and not even cost-effective at that. Guess which action will pay back better in the longer run?

Re:...and the USA is building wind farms (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136510)

``China Building City For Cloud Computing'' -- scientific progress, business development etc., vs. ``US To Fire Up Big Offshore Wind Energy Projects'' -- populism towards tree-hugging hippies, and not even cost-effective at that. Guess which action will pay back better in the longer run?

I don't think you really got a representative example of US activities. Rather compare money spent for renewable energy sources (which are a good thing, even if not effective in the short run) with military expenses and oil-related costs.

I seem to recall.. (1)

pablo_max (626328) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136040)

IBM just complaining that China was over taking the US in the computer arms race and that the US would be behind when something is not done right away.
I guess, by something needs to be done, they meant that they should build a giant Chinese data center to dwarf anything else in the world. USA! USA! USA!

I have no doubt that IBM's rationale was, hey, if we don't do it, another company will. We may as well get the cash.
Of course, China walks away with the unearned know-how.

Re:I seem to recall.. (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136470)

It would appear that IBM's actual message was "The US would fall behind if a large contract with IBM were not signed right away"...

It's not as though multinational corporations deliver press release warnings out of patriotic sentiment and an undying love of their natal land; but purely as a tactical or strategic measure for advancing their interests.

Cloud City (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136128)

In my RSS feed, my eyes read "China Building Cloud City." What a let down.

Partnering with IBM to build it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136196)

Hmm, I put that one through the sub textural analyser and got this:

"Chinese men in white coats will document every step of the way so that next time round they China will be able to do it themselves without the help of IBM thank you very much."

I love the way that the west has exported all of its skills, work, and lastly, money to regimes it claims not to admire. It's obvious which, out of democracy and totalitarianism, our politicians prefer.

Data centers getting obsolete (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136260)

Would not these huge data centers get obsolete if hard disks grow in capacity and processors in power 1000 times once again?

I mean couldn't the whole data-center then be placed on one server? Imagine a hard disk of 1000 TB and in addition - solid state, no energy for spinning.

Employees certainly could use all the space for fancy offices and the real data center would be somewhere in a corner.

Re:Data centers getting obsolete (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136530)

All of Bletchley Park was less than a thousandth as powerful as the PDA I had 7 years ago (and certainly the one I have now), yet you couldn't host Facebook, or Amazon, or Slashdot, or run a modern climate simulation on any PDA. Can you see why there will always be data centers?

Re:Data centers getting obsolete (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136746)

I still remember how I had to change lamps in the computer. I can quite well see how a device of a PDA size with a new generation 3d processor and SSHD inside can comprise a data center.

Re:Data centers getting obsolete (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137272)

You totally missed the point, by that time we'll need more space, more processing power and more bandwidth. Same reason that from WW2 to today we've always needed data centers. Unless software suddenly stagnates that's not going to happen.

Re:Data centers getting obsolete (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137718)

My point was that a growing demand for computing power can be saturated completely. Say, a PDA size device with an optical cable connection can cover the whole demand for computing of the planet for decades to come.

Software can also be a part of it. For example, when a human see a photo of another human, the brain can compute in a fraction of a second if this face is known or not. It is obvious that some sort of an undiscovered yet parallel computing is going on.

Re:Data centers getting obsolete (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137284)

I/O is a much bigger problem than processor power or storage.

One Fifth? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136302)

Maybe they spend one-fifth because they aren't paying Microsoft the other four-fifths?

inappropriate yakov smirnov joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35136412)

In America, lazy hipster run program from city on cloud computer;
In State Capitalist China, cloud computer run program on lazy hipster from city!

How curious... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136446)

I thought that the whole point of "cloud" was to (within the limitations of bandwidth and latency) abstract away the details of location and configuration of the server iron so that the specialist datacenter guys could do their thing as efficiently as possible, and everybody else could be served up idealized abstractions corresponding to their requirements, whether that be idealized VMs that migrate around ugly physical hardware failures, or idealized email hosts that don't involve looking at the dirty details of the mailserver daemon and storage mechanism...

Wouldn't you just build the datacenter(s) wherever land and power are cheap, and then make sure that the places where the bright techies already are(university towns, etc.) have decent internet connectivity so that the developers and startups and so forth can talk to your fancy new cloud datacenters right from the coffeeshop where they already are?

Am I missing something about how "cloud" works, or is this something of a holdover of the classic command-and-control-white-elephant model of "Hey, let's build an entire city dedicated to activity X!"?

Re:How curious... (1)

asifyoucare (302582) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137090)

Exactly. I'm surprised this hasn't been modded up. Building a city to host a cloud entirely misses the point - especially the resilient and decentralised parts of the point.

Bespin? (1)

frozentier (1542099) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136452)

Although it was inferred in another post (and I didn't look through the hidden ones), am I really the first person to ask if they are going to call this new cloud city "Bespin"?

Double-digit growth (0)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136492)

double-digit growth

What is that supposed to mean? You are talking like an economist! Firstly, you're making something of a dimensionality error by not specifying the time during which this growth is taking place. Secondly, you are not specifying the base in which this growth rate becomes "double-digit". Furthermore, even if the reader can guess your choice of base correctly, it conveys a rather arbitrary piece of information about the growth rate of China. I expect better from a technically-minded person. If it was actually coming from an economist, I would have just smiled, filled in the missing bits and gone on to be an appreciated colleague in that workplace, but with you, I still have my hopes that salvation is within reach and that's why I'm picking on it. Repent! Good luck!

Disaster? (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | more than 3 years ago | (#35136924)

Is China not a place that like...has a lot of earthquakes, or not?
I thought there was enough earthquakes to not build with too heavy materials or avoid too many sky scrapers....or maybe it was
just lack of money to do so, until government stepped up....any input would be welcomed.

Re:Disaster? (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137170)

>Is China not a place that like...has a lot of earthquakes, or not?

China is a very big place. Some parts of it are more geologically stable than others.
The US has a lot of earthquakes but North Dakota doesn't.

Is it located in one of their "ghost cities"? (3, Informative)

jbarr (2233) | more than 3 years ago | (#35137006)

Obviously off-topic, but interesting and wonderful fodder for the tin-foil hat crowd

It appears that China has built several cities meant to house millions of people, yet they remain completely empty:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html [dailymail.co.uk]
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_340_30137.php [libertynewsonline.com]

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