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See How Tough Your Immune System is With "Blood Wars"

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the that's-some-tough-blood dept.

Idle 119

Thanks to a new art/science exhibition called "Blood Wars," you can find out whose dad has the toughest immune system once and for all. The brainchild of artist Kathy High, "Blood Wars" pits white blood cells from two different people against each other. From the article: "In order to create the blood duel, High gets a phlebotomist to take blood samples from two different people. She then separates the white blood cells from the rest of the blood and stains them using different colors. They are then placed in a Petri dish and their interactions are filmed under a microscope using time-lapse microscopy. The cellular 'winner' of each round will go onto fight another participant."

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119 comments

Blood wars (5, Interesting)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158648)

This comes as a weird time for me, as I just a month ago got an autoimmune attack in my system. That is when your own system starts attacking itself thinking theres an enemy. It's usually unknown where or why it hits a person, but I probably got it from some food in south east asia. End result - now 1,5 months in hospital and unable to walk. Doctors aren't yet completely sure what it is, but they're thinking it's Guillain-Barré Syndrome [nih.gov]. Human blood cells attacking itself is some nasty bug. At least my legs and hands still work little bit so I will be able to recover.

Re:Blood wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159016)

That's a bummer.
I have a loved one that just died in her sleep (next to me) from a cold that took of residence in her heart.
Unlucky lottery indeed.

Re:Blood wars (1)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159076)

Dude, that's awful. I sincerely wish you a prompt and complete recovery.

You know, there's one thing that seemed odd to me, you say you probably got it from some food ... I thought such a disease would be either genetic or developmental, but you say you got it through some food. Does it have some kind of viral/bacteriological origin?

I truly hope you get better, and remember, we can be fucking idiots sometimes, but /.ers do take care of each other. If you are having a hard time and need any kind of help (financial or otherwise), never forget that the /. effect can do a lot more than murder poor webservers.

Best of luck ...

Re:Blood wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159282)

Read the link in the OP, which explains what scientists know about this syndrome.

Re:Blood wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159230)

The latest research on Guillain-Barre indicates it is probably a side effect of the flu virus. It's much more likely that a flu bug got you than food in SE Asia. If you don't die, you should make a full recovery in 3-6 months.

Re:Blood wars (1)

SecondaryOak (1342441) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159778)

My dad got GBS a few years ago, in a very severe form (for 2-3 months he couldn't even breathe by himself). It took him about a year to return home, and he's still not in perfect shape, and never will be - but he can walk, and he can use the computer just fine. So have faith. Also, you didn't "get it" from anywhere - autoimmune disease are not something you can get infected in, it's just that usually another infection is the catalyst.

Re:Blood wars (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35160134)

I had GBS 4 years ago and I would say that is definitely what you have. They should be able to do a lumber puncture to determine if it is that. I had great fun relearning to breathe for myself again and learning to walk again. Not so easy when you can't feel the floor!

However I doubt that you got it from some food in south east asia. Neither I, nor anyone in the support group of GBS sufferers that I know have ever been to Asia never mind eaten some food there. Whilst they don't know what causes GBS. Nearly all the theories require you to of had another flu like bug in the preceeding weeks.

Re:Blood wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35161976)

I had GBS 4 years ago and I would say that is definitely what you have. They should be able to do a lumber puncture to determine if it is that. I had great fun relearning to breathe for myself again and learning to walk again. Not so easy when you can't feel the floor!

However I doubt that you got it from some food in south east asia. Neither I, nor anyone in the support group of GBS sufferers that I know have ever been to Asia never mind eaten some food there. Whilst they don't know what causes GBS. Nearly all the theories require you to of had another flu like bug in the preceeding weeks.

Thanks Doc!

Re:Blood wars (1)

BESTouff (531293) | more than 3 years ago | (#35160322)

You should definitely enter this contest.

Re:Blood wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35160918)

As bad as autoimmune can set up the white blood cells, I'd put my money on someone with myloid leukemia. That shit never dies.

Re:Blood wars (2)

ryzvonusef (1151717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35160828)

At least my legs and hands still work little bit so I will be able to recover.

Hey, you can visit slashdot, that definitely counts as a blessing :p

I pray for your speedy recovery.

Retreive Winning Cells (3, Interesting)

muphin (842524) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158666)

i wonder if you can retrieve the ultimate winner cells (your cells) and it will boost your immune system? where is the database stored so the cells know which foreign cells to go after, is it the white cells itself or a chemical reaction?

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158700)

Presumably that would only boost your immunity to humans. And here I thought I couldn't possibly be any more antisocial...

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158716)

It might make it nearly impossible for you to get a transplant at a later date due to the white bloodcells fighting off the "bad" cells, or worse causing an auto-immune disorder of some kind.... I'll stick to my own cells, not the ones that have been through anti-terrorist training.

mod parent up - despite ac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158832)

I can't agree more - you took essentially what I was going to say. Adding sociopathic killer white blood cells back into the body just sounds bad from every angle.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35161818)

Anti-terrorist training? More like unwarranted growth of incompetent government.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158874)

Presumably that would only boost your immunity to humans. And here I thought I couldn't possibly be any more antisocial...

Boasting much about being antisocial?

Here's my take (in the gloomy mood a night of insomnia let me) - why stop when one "blood" wins by killing the other? Why not inject the "winning blood" into the owner of the "loser blood"?

(both the idea in TFA and this "extension" create the same revulsion in me. How the fuck can be this considered ART?).

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159128)

Why not inject the "winning blood" into the owner of the "loser blood"?

Suppose that kills the loser? Wouldn't that be a problem? "Could" doesn't mean "should". After all, we could send you in chopped up bits to a glue factory (why? ART), but maybe you wouldn't prefer that outcome.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35163172)

Suppose that kills the loser?

I think that was his point. Somehow he thinks the two are comparable.

Anytime someone says something like "How the fuck can be this considered ART?" it just encourages the pretentious types to try to be even more strange.. I think the first "modern art" "sculpture" was started as a statement about how crap art was becoming, but people embraced it and just started trying to outweird each other for the sake of it.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35160330)

It's awesome. Sorry you're a manbaby.

Art is anything that wants to be art.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35163204)

Art is anything that wants to be art.

Heh. This sounds like just the type of thing a really crappy artist would say..

Imperfect Analogy (5, Informative)

Scubaraf (1146565) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158844)

It doesn't quite work that way, but the answer to your question is that the database is stored in the DNA of immune cells.

Essentially, the newborn cells of the adaptive immune system (B and T-cells) undergo rearrangements of their DNA to produce a incredibly wide variety of receptors.

Then, they go through a selection process - if they react strongly with self, they die (negative selection). After a few more maturation and selection steps, the surviving immune cells are sent throughout the body.

If one of them later binds strongly to something (which is presumably foreign) in the right context, they activate. They trigger an immune response and proliferate. A subset of these daughter cells become essentially immortal - outlasting the immune response they fought in, but ready to quickly mobilize should that foreign substance be encountered again.

So, the memory cells are the hardware, but the rearranged antigen receptor gene they harbor is the information they need to work.

Sounds like a bad fantasy movie backstory ;) (1)

LongearedBat (1665481) | more than 3 years ago | (#35163562)

the daughters became immortal - outlasting the the battle they fought in, but ready to quickly mobilize should that enemy be encountered again.

...and guess what happens in the movie.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158882)

Can't we just do this the old fashion way? Two guys get into a knock-down-drag-out fight and someone else cleans up the blood?
Person #1: That's a lot of blood. Whose is it?
Person #2: Does it really matter?
Person #1: I guess not - as long as it's not mine.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159006)

i wonder if you can retrieve the ultimate winner cells (your cells) and it will boost your immune system?

There can be only one!!!!!!!!!

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159276)

Yeah and when there's only one immortal white blood cell left standing, it's impossible to chop its head off ;).

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35162998)

It's probably also cancerous. Cancer cells can achiece technical requirements for immortality. The problem is they tend to cause structural problems that cut their reigns short.

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159658)

cells recognize the surface proteins/ glycoproteins/ glycocalyx of your own cells, among other things.

this is also why you can only recieve blood from certain blood types. :]

Re:Retreive Winning Cells (1)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 3 years ago | (#35161520)

Um, I thought the "memory" was provided by antibodies, which help tag known intruders and serve as a "rally point" for lymphocytes (white blood cells).

I suppose white blood cells can eventually figure out for themselves if another cell is a friend or foe, but the presence of antibody tags makes them go into ingest mode much more quickly.

Without antibodies, I'm guessing the rival white blood cells would spend some time sniffing each other out, and the "more aggressive" one will recognize the other as foreign first and start attempting to ingest it.

I hope this art exhibit comes to visit us in the US sometime, it sounds awesome! Would really like to see video of this happening >:-D

No Planescape references yet? (2, Informative)

mark-t (151149) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158674)

Geeze, what kind of geeks read slashdot these days?

Re:No Planescape references yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158826)

Nerds, not geeks.

Re:No Planescape references yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159072)

Well, I have something else: "Already at the cellular level, the species destroy each other.."

Re:No Planescape references yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35160346)

The same people who read Wired and Engadget...
(I'm not trolling here, honestly consider what I have said please.)

Highlander (1)

dwarfsoft (461760) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158690)

There can be only one!~

Re:Highlander (1)

Hamsterdan (815291) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159526)

As I'm starting Season 4, that's a nice coincidence...

Re:Highlander (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35162162)

Wait until you get to the Highlander: The Source movie.

gyyyyyopopopoo (1)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158696)

My brain is constantly fed by rivers of the greatest, purest blood that has been perfectly oxyginatied by my lo ngs thats why I am the smartest human person on te planet maybe after Al gotre or somebofy like tyuhatko8n**Ym9U*mY*&YIUK

Predicted Future Events (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158788)

  • Creation of People for the Ethical Treatment of Cells
  • Mick Vick goes to prison for breeding and fighting engineered leukocytes
  • In 2016, White Blood Cell matches become a major sport. In 2017, doping allegations nearly destroy the world's newfound passion.
  • Doctors decide to start injecting strong white blood cells into patients with immunodeficiency, only to find that this creates a new form of super cancer.

Re:Predicted Future Events (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158932)

  • Doctors start injecting strong white blood cells into patients with immunodeficiency, triggering the Totally organic euthanasia(TM) fashion craze. Stock prices skyrocketed.

FTFY

Out for blood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158798)

This brings new meaning to the phrase "killed in cold blood"!

Killed in blood, by blood, for blood.

Re:Out for blood (1)

by (1706743) (1706744) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159056)

Actually, I wonder if the temperature could change the outcome. Obviously frozen blood would result in a draw, but I wonder if certain people's blood carries an advantage at lower temperatures and vice versa.

And the Champion is: (2)

AnomalousDatum (1985628) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158830)

Homeglobus Maximus with a record of 420 wins, 1 tie and no losses. Honorable mention goes to Dopefried Fiend(disqualified doping), and The Crimson Myoglobin. Woe betide to the fallen, competitors one and all.

Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158852)

"She (the artist) then separates the white blood cells from the rest of the blood and stains them using different colors."

Shouldn't she stain them using the same color? (And label them A and B, or something like that, to identify them). Otherwise she will not know whether the different colors had an impact on the "strength" of the cells.
If she were using turmeric to color the cells for example...it is known that turmeric has certain anti inflammatory properties. Not that she would use turmeric, but still.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158930)

Shouldn't she stain them using the same color? (And label them A and B, or something like that, to identify them).

Where can you get a cell-sized label maker?

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159044)

Right, my bad. I meant she should label the Petri dishes, but I spoke too quickly. I reread it and she mixed up both cells in the same Petri dish.

Re:Hmm (3, Funny)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159300)

I meant she should label the Petri dishes, but I spoke too quickly. I reread it and she mixed up both cells in the same Petri dish.

Of course she did that. It's quite hard for white blood cells to fight each other if you put each of them in their own petri dish.

White blood cells generally are unable to use ranged weapons to their full effectiveness.

FTA- "Art-Science installation" (2)

Aerorae (1941752) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158866)

This may be science, but it's sure not art *I* like.

~creepy~

Re:FTA- "Art-Science installation" (1)

rta (559125) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159028)

Indeed. Your blood cells are just hanging out patrolling your body and keeping you safe from bad stuff. These people would have you sacrifice them in an arena for no purpose other than entertainment. Even the "winner" blood cells are going to die in the end. I know they're not people, but it still seems like a "mean" thing to do.

(And yes, i know blood cells die all the time etc. but if i were a blood cell, i wouldn't want to go out like this)

Re:FTA- "Art-Science installation" (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159150)

Pussies like you make me sick. Your blood could be out there vying for dominance in the arena and facing down the toughest in the world. It could venture forth into the open world where viruses roam and the very environment could kill it. Instead you want it to sit at home in the couches of your arteries and veins twiddling it thumbs.

Do something for your species! Send your blood cells out to hunt down those terrorist diseases in their homes! Pre-emptively strike at their very hearts before they bring the war to you or your neighbour's body!

Re:FTA- "Art-Science installation" (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35160818)

Unfortunately for you, art critics have a virtually limitless supply of "+1: freaking the mundanes" mods at their disposal.

As long as the gallery doesn't get firebombed, or the funding cut, outrage=artist cred.

Crip Wars (1)

relikx (1266746) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158902)

I don't mean drug violence or even that one South Park episode, but really this is a great conceptual way to represent aspects of the body in ways people clearly understand. The hazards of obesity, smoking, etc. compared to baseline or especially an above-average person seem to me a clearer way to visualize this versus any shock-factor "shriveled prune" organ approach.

Re:Crip Wars (1)

Derf the (610150) | more than 3 years ago | (#35160482)

I don't mean drug violence or even that one South Park episode, but really this is a great conceptual way to represent aspects of the body in ways people clearly understand. The hazards of obesity, smoking, etc. compared to baseline or especially an above-average person seem to me a clearer way to visualize this versus any shock-factor "shriveled prune" organ approach.

I am not entirely sure that you mean; that this will be a great individualised service to provide to those who are in need of seeing how compromised their 'immune system' has become (and with 'immune system' too acting as an even more general proxy for their 'overall state of health'). But if you do, I agree, you'd get a very visual and engaging and, I expect, quite an indicative result [you will likely have stronger feelings around wishing this "team" wins than any of the teams you have ever followed/'bet on' prior, & what proportion of the obese population (for instance) don't watch sport?] .
So long as you surround the person as they watch with options to enable them to actually change their 'performance' in the future; then watching what was moments before part of themselves, battling; succumb; and be eaten, may indeed be very motivational and very hard to ignore.

Though I can imagine a few rows of
'????'
in the 'develop into product' section
before reaching
'Profit !'.

The real question is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35158962)

who would win against Keith Richards?

YAWN (0)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#35158994)

crap slideshow with what you read above for content and some grotesque art displays that do nothing but waste scientific material

rated B- crap

Re:YAWN (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159476)

Are you kidding? This is an amazing display of some of biology's most important fields at the moment. Sure it is not doing research but it is approaching science in a novel and fun way. If even one person is inspired by this it is worth the paltry cost (Lets face it the apparatus needed to pull off this display could be bought used from many universities for next to nothing. As far as the needles/test tubes/storage/whatever goes, most people probably spend more on gas getting to the museum) of the exhibit.

People don't knock educational TV for trying to entertain and get people excited about science/math/reading or teachers who try and get their kids excited about a subject by approaching it in an unorthodox way. Why should this be any less valid? Just because it isn't breaking new scientific ground doesn't mean that it is a waste. If it gets people out of the house and interested in something other than cage fighting or whatever the big thing is these days its A+++ in my book.

Life War (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159008)

Back in the long ago I rented a Commodore PET for a week. It had a game called LifeWar. Each player would draw blobs of bacteria on the screen, and then you'd press a button and the blobs would grow, and change. Eventually, one would consume the other. At the time, I didn't understand what it was all about, but looking back now, it was probably a variant of Conway's game of life with some additional rules for encounters with other strains of cells. If I were to play it now, I could use gliders, and with a bit of research, a glider gun.

OnionSports (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159030)

Spectators were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.

.

How high is High? (1)

Super Dave Osbourne (688888) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159048)

I'm pretty sure folks will line up to do this, but why would anyone care if one blood strain is tougher than another? I'm not so sure of the upside... Unless there is research money doled out to the participants. Then indeed it is game on.

Re:How high is High? (2)

SheeEttin (899897) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159122)

why would anyone care if one blood strain is tougher than another?

Because then we could analyze the results and see if we could find out WHY some white blood cells are stronger than others?

Or, after rereading the summary, this is art. There is no "why" in art.

Re:How high is High? (1)

Super Dave Osbourne (688888) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159478)

Yep, its art. And so there is likely an endless supply of folks ready to take part in the living art. This is because the science of it doesn't matter, you can't change (at least yet) your DNA and white/red/blue/black cells and what they do. When we have rDNA splicing that is legal and folks actually live from it longer than a few hours then maybe this kind of art will become more important to science. Until then, and I hope that is not in my lifetime, we can only laugh at the notion someone is paying for this research/art.

Re:How high is High? (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | more than 3 years ago | (#35161354)

Never under-estimate the competativeness of people (especially men).

I might do it if given the chance. I was always sick as a young kid but rarely get sick as an adult. I like to think all those illnesses in my youth gave me a super immune system, what better way to check then a fight to the death?

No winner is really "stronger" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159124)

The "winner" would depend on other factors other than immune system strengh. such as quality of draw and overall age of the white cells. Additionally, the anticoagulant used can affect each persons cells differently. The white cells of some people are more fragile than others in EDTA (the anticoagulant used) and create "smudge cells" on smears. While this is sometimes pathogenic, it can also just be their cells.

Currently in development at Discovery Channel... (2)

Lord_of_the_nerf (895604) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159134)


- White Blood Cells vs Predator
- Deadliest Warrior: White Blood Cells or Roman Centurion
- Jurassic Fight Club: White Blood Cells vs Stegosaurus

By any chance, Are you a black African descent? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159324)

All the black follk I know over in Alabama and Georgia all have similar problems with getting attacked by their White Blood Cells. It is linked to their diet and metabolism. He said whenever he did nothing on a marvelous workday wearing his unwashed tanktop and unwashed genes, he would sit on his porch to eat some beans right out of the can can with a side of cold fried chicken while drinking hard liquor, and then all of a sudden -- wham, auto-immune attack, like every White Blood Cell in his own body just cries "nigger" out loud and consumes itself.

What frigging Immune System? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159338)

Mines shit. I know that already.
I have Leukaemia and I'm in the middle of Chemo.

If darwinism is right... (1)

orphiuchus (1146483) | more than 3 years ago | (#35159402)

Then women should find the winner of this very very attractive. I'm in.

I'll mail an envelope full of blood right away.

Re:If darwinism is right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159490)

What prevents man with "strongest blood" to also have short legs, be blind and deaf? I would say it's a combination of many factors that calculates your average sex appeal.
Apologies for taking this to a serious side as I'm sure your post was meant to be of a joking kind.

Re:If darwinism is right... (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35163324)

The heck with that! Let's settle the question of who is fittest to breed the old fashioned way -- by comparing penis lengths!

Lemon detox diet (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159772)

I was very encouraged to find this site. I wanted to thank you for this special read. I definitely savored every little bit of it.

Lemon detox diet [healthmantra.co.uk]

I'd put bets on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35159932)

Cockfighting my own blood? Put me down!

Paper, Scissors, Rock (1)

DFJA (680282) | more than 3 years ago | (#35160186)

What happens here if you get into a paper, scissors, rock situation? This is perfectly possible, yet the algorithm for determining a winner doesn't seem to allow for this possibility. Presumably you just end up in an infinite loop, while the participants end up getting progressively sucked dry with every round. Having said that, this would really mean they are all losers as their immune system failed to anticipate this threat and failed to save the participant as a result.

Murderer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35160628)

That tiny single cell that cant do anything by itself has the potential to become a human being!!!

I visited it yesterday (1)

SMoynihan (1647997) | more than 3 years ago | (#35161208)

I visited this exhibition last night.

Interesting stuff, and much more fascinating than repellent. Full marks to the Trinity College students who take you through each exhibit - their enthusiasm added a lot to the experience, particularly for one grounded in engineering rather than life sciences. One of the more interesting pieces was related to the piezoelectric properties of bone. The artist had taken cow bones and turned them into (rather inefficient) speakers.

Hearing "Old MacDonald had a Bone" played from a cow's femur was an, ahem, unique experience.

Extra life! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35161582)

Please insert coin to continue:
5...
4...
3...

Two blood samples enter; one bloody sample leaves! (1)

Catmeat (20653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35162238)

Two blood samples enter; one bloody sample leaves!

Two blood samples enter; one bloody sample leaves!

Racists! (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35163286)

Separating out the white blood cells and making them fight against each other... geez, what's wrong with these people?!?
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