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After MS-Nokia Pact, Many Nokia Workers Walk Out In Protest

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the let's-enjoy-the-brisk-finnish-air dept.

Businesses 601

Mr. McGibby writes "After the announcement of the partnership between Nokia and Microsoft this morning workers voiced their concern with the deal by walking out of Nokia facilities. It is believed that as many as a thousand workers marched out today (or took the day off using flex time) so that the company would know that they don't believe the partnership is in their best interest, even after CEO' Stephen Elop's startlingly frank 'burning platform' memo earlier this week."
Looks like many investors felt the same way.

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601 comments

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Fuck Nokia (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183390)

Yeah? Fuck you guys. Have you learned NOTHING from the past twenty years of history? Here's my prediction: Nokia will cease to exist inside of ten years, propped up by the dumbphone market or not.

Re:Fuck Nokia (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183404)

No fuck you, what would you know AC.

Re:Fuck Nokia (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183440)

No fuck you AC

Re:Fuck Nokia (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183498)

Gentlemen! Gentlemen, please! Can't we come to a compromise where you all fuck off?

Re:Fuck Nokia (-1, Troll)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183530)

SMELL the FAIL!

Re:Fuck Nokia (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183658)

OMG, it's a troll convention :O

Re:Fuck Nokia (1, Interesting)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183438)

Ya, it doesn't seem very likely that people would continue to buy phones that reliably make phone calls when they could spend more than I spent on my first car to get a phone that drops your call if you accidentally hold it comfortably.

Nokia makes good phones. Your prophecy will only come true if they completely ignore their workers and hold tight with Microsoft.

Re:Fuck Nokia (2)

SudoGhost (1779150) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183850)

Unfortunately, good phones only go so far when nobody's buying them. People don't want good phones, they want flashy apps.

Re:Fuck Nokia (2)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183928)

Unfortunately, good phones only go so far when nobody's buying them. People don't want good phones, they want flashy apps.

This recent story [slashdot.org] would seem to indicate otherwise. Dumbphones are cheap, tiny and durable. There will always be a market for that.

I carry around two phones, one personal and one for business. My personal dumbphone has survived through 3 different business smartphones and it is still going strong. The batteries still last a week, while I can hardly get my iPhone to last more than a day. Maybe that is why the manufactures prefer smartphones - they don't last nearly as long and so you have to keep buying new ones.

Re:Fuck Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183694)

Right back at ya. My "dumb" Nokia is still going strong after almost 4 years. Of course the plural of anecdote isn't data; but if my "old reliable" is any indicator, they'll only go out of biz because they're stuff is too well built.

As for smart phones, I just don't care. Why do I want to pay that much extra for the privelege of playing stupid games while waiting for a burger, like the guy I saw today. He had those stupid tribal tattoos too. It screem "conformist waste of money". I bet he pulled up in an SUV, that he drove from his McMansion that was "never going to go down" but is now on the verge of foreclosure. Stupid consumerist trend followers.

See? I can take out my frustrations by being a ranting Internet asshole too!

Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183392)

A thousand people are suddenly not at work, and no progress appeared to be lost. Really speaks volumes about where theyre headed. I know theyre a huge company, but come on......

Re:Interesting (0)

petteyg359 (1847514) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183406)

You've got a broken apostrophe key, and your ellipsis key is duplicating...

Re:Interesting (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183510)

Go suck a dick you ignorant fuck.

Re:Interesting (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183852)

Go suck a fuck you ignorant dick.

Looking for Job (4, Insightful)

mudpup (14555) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183408)

If I worked at Nokia I would be looking for a job, like yesterday.

Re:Looking for Job (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183484)

I quit Nokia in December!

The writing was on the wall as soon as the MS droid came on board.

Re:Looking for Job (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183512)

Or looking to buy an Egyptian flag.

Re:Looking for Job (3, Insightful)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183704)

Actually I think it would be better to keep a job. Be honest, you wouldn't quit a paying job. Of course you meant that you'd start looking at the employment sites during your off time.

I don't think this will be the end of Nokia. If anything it may be the smartest thing they've done. They obviously been stagnate way too long and there are just too many handset manufacturers jumping on the android bandwagon. This leaves Nokia with the option of being just another lemming going with Android or differentiating themselves by hooking up with Microsoft. Frankly going with Google or Microsoft is better than Nokia's status quo.

Re:Looking for Job (3, Interesting)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183820)

Everybody can guess exactly what is going on. M$ is paying off Nokia to install windows in a desperate bid to gain market share. How this back hander is being managed to effectively reduce the retail price of Nokia phones, is anyone's guess. perhpas M$ will pay all of Nokia's marketing costs, perhaps M$ is going to buy a whole lot of Nokia gear http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia [wikipedia.org] at inflated prices, as they do more than just make phones.

Of course M$ can't be telling it's shareholders that they have to pay companies to install their windows mobile platform as that is not going to assure people of the value of M$ shares, especially when a certain ex-CEO ex-Chairman is selling a whole bunch of them (could this be insider trading if that ex-CEO ex-Chairman is aware of the impact upon investors of the actual details M$ Nokia .agreement).

Nokia of course will continue internal development of Android as a software platform for their phones and have an escape clause for when M$ deal goes tits up, they aren't that silly.

So all in all, yet another cynical exercise in marketing by M$ to promote it's operating system and of course it's share price.

Re:Looking for Job (2)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183880)

So, you think the company that appears to have been the slowest at reacting to getting kicked in the nuts by the iPhone [as Android, Palm and RIM all rejigged their OS in response to it already, even if they did so poorly (RIM)], have decided to join with the second-slowest company to react (hello, Microsoft), to BEGIN to produce a phone that may ship six months from now if they just go with vanilla Wince 7, or 1-2 years if they go for something fancy, is the smartest thing they've done?

I totally agree that they had to do something radically different now, because their Symbian/Meego/OviStore/ComesWithMusic thing was resulting in their asses getting kicked for the last 4 years in the SmartPhone market, but to go with the company that had already been in the smartphone os market for years and so totally completely utterly fundamentally missed how the iPhone changed everything [go back and see how Ballmer said the iPhone was going to be a total failure after it was announced, and how the next version of Wince would just crush it completely] doesn't seem like exactly their best option.

Actually, I guess Nokia isn't really the last to notice what the iPhone has done, but maybe they are just the worst at actually changing in response to it [with RIM marginally ahead of them, but just slightly]. They have had all the major bulletpoint features that the iPhone has, like an app store, music, touch screen, some 3rd party apps, but they just couldn't put it all together into one system that worked well for a non-geek user.

Re:Looking for Job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183898)

In some circumstances, it's better to wait around to get laid off so you get a severance package, rather than quit immediately and get nothing. It depends on how long you're willing to wait though, since they may not actually lay you off.

Re:Looking for Job (4, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183908)

If anything it may be the smartest thing they've done.

How often is partnering with Microsoft the smartest thing anyone's done?

Burning Platform. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183412)

So finally, both decided to jump into the sea together.

Steve-O (4, Funny)

apostrophesemicolon (816454) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183418)

Stephen Elop
Steve Ballmer
Steve Jobs
Scuba Steve


Should I name my next kid STEVE??? \(`)/

Missing information (5, Informative)

03Cobra (826073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183420)

The summary is a tad misleading. It states that most who protested this work on the Symbian OS. So they are protesting because lots will probably lose their jobs. Not because they hold in their belief that the partnership is bad.

Re:Missing information (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183430)

How about people that work on Qt? Hopefully Nokia will not end up killing the best toolkit that exists for desktop development.

Re:Missing information (2)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183490)

I've been wondering that too.

The newest kde is the first I would rate as stable (with 4.2 being the first usable) .

And it seriously improves with every version.

It would be a shame if this slpws down developement.

(I still mmay prefer gnome + compiz, but it's getting hard to tell)

Re:Missing information (2, Insightful)

msauve (701917) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183592)

You think the two are mutually exclusive?

Re:Missing information (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183772)

He thinks one is the cause of their protest and the other is not the cause of their protest. This doesn't imply they're mutually exclusive.

Wow (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183426)

Holy fuck, Nokia employees got balls.

Re:Wow (2)

trentblase (717954) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183456)

Not really, they used their flextime. More like "nokia employees got benefits"

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183574)

Not really. Firing someone in the EU takes an act of God, signed off by the Pope and Santa Claus.

Re:Wow (4, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183706)

Firing someone in the EU takes an act of God, signed off by the Pope and Santa Claus.

Not really. It's just that firing someone in the US is easier than anywhere else in the world. It's just one more way we're behind the rest of the world.

Somehow, countries like Germany manage to be extremely worker-friendly and still lead the US in exports, and they don't need 20% underemployment to get there. By the way, that 20% underemployment we have in the US is by all expectations a permanent condition.

Any first year econ student can tell you that labor always proceeds capital. It was only after that condition was reversed in the US that we began our 30 year decline.

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

Capt. Skinny (969540) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183836)

It's just one more way we're behind the rest of the world

How is that "behind"? If I have slackers working for me, I don't want red tape standing in the way of my getting rid of them. This is especially true in small business, where margins are tight and you can't afford to pay people who don't produce.

Re:Wow (1, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183848)

It's just that firing someone in the US is easier than anywhere else in the world. It's just one more way we're behind the rest of the world.

Ya, behind the rest of the world in a race to the bottom you mean. Seriously, making it difficult to fire someone is precisely why we have bad customer service from government institutions, higher prices, and crappy quality. It only gets worse when you put Unions into the mix. In fact, it was the UAW that drove our domestic automotive industry into the ground, and all of Michigan paid a price for it.

The idea that people are "entitled" to keep their job, for whatever reason grates on me. If it's that big if a deal to you, then form your own company and be self-employed.

Signed: A fellow citizen who busts his ass off every day to earn an honest living and refuses to accept hand-outs.

Re:Wow (1)

Rakishi (759894) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183922)

First of all, the unemployment rate in the US is 9% or so while Germany is 6.5% or so. The employment rates also seem to vary by 3% or so (just in case you were going to use the idiotic "it's being measured wrong" argument).

Germany exports most of it's products to other EU countries. I'm sure if you counted inter-state transport in the US as exports you'd get a very large number as well.

Re:Wow (1)

SudoGhost (1779150) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183864)

the Pope and Santa Claus.

Grow up. Everyone knows the Pope is just something parents tell their children. Santa only comes once a year, so they had to invent the Pope.

Re:Wow (2)

IICV (652597) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183668)

Well see, that's the thing - trying to change company policy by walking out like this works best when there's a social safety net for you to fall back on.

In the USA, if you walk out on your job like this (and you'd have to walk out, because chances are you don't have flex time) you'd be, essentially, screwed.

Almost makes you wonder why this capitalist paradise has such gaping holes in the social safety net, doesn't it?

Re:Wow (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183692)

If this capitalist paradise weren't being subverted by socialist/marxist politicians in office, then you wouldn't need the social safety net... You'd show your displeasure by working for someone else.

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183714)

In the USA, if you walk out on your job like this (and you'd have to walk out, because chances are you don't have flex time) you'd be, essentially, screwed.

In the US, if you work for a living, you're screwed.

Re:Wow (0)

hsmith (818216) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183748)

Why would you be screwed? One should easily be able to dip into savings if necessary - if they so believe in what they are doing is morally right.

Re:Wow (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183764)

What savings?

Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner. (4, Informative)

ron_ivi (607351) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183436)

Already covered well in these slashdot stories from '06.

http://slashdot.org/story/03/01/06/1159207/Sendo-vs-Microsoft-The-Truth-Comes-Out [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/story/02/12/26/1423247/Sendo-Accuses-MS-of-Stealing-Smartphone-IP [slashdot.org]

I suspect the same happens to Nokia.

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183504)

Just like every other partner.

i4i was one of their partners too. Look where it got them.

Who's got the list of former partners that wound up being smothered with a pillow in their sleep by Microsoft?

--
BMO

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (4, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183570)

Alternatively, consider HTC - you know, the company that basically got started selling WinMo devices, and is now one of *the* big names in smartphone manufacture world-wide?

I'm not saying this couldn't go sour for Nokia, because it obviously could. But it certainly isn't guaranteed to, and could in fact pay off very handsomely indeed.

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183606)

HTC appeared on the map because they were early adopters of the android platform.
If it were for their WinMo offerings alone, they would have remained in obscurity forever.

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (2)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183712)

Didn't sidekick get them on the map?

I think it was them that built that.

Even their winmo phones were appealing.

Htc is on the map for making good hardware, and finding decent software to augment. Android was not the start of that. I like sense enough to use it on my american g2

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183888)

Big difference there - Nokia is well-established as-is (especially in Europe), and becoming "just another WinPhone vendor" is a major demotion.

Re:Remember Microsoft's earlier smartphone partner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183742)

Those articles are from 2003 and 2002 (respectively), not 2006.

But they do offer some insight into Nokia's future.

Nokia may be hosed (4, Informative)

plopez (54068) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183444)

MS has a history of hosing it's "partners". Sybase, threats to cutoff Intel's air supply, and the "Stinger" phone OS are some examples. As the saying goes, "If the lamb lies down with the lion, it better not fall asleep."

Re:Nokia may be hosed (2)

Tiger Smile (78220) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183482)

I worked at FTP Software(yes, by now you've never heard of them) when they partnered with Microsoft. The guy hired away from Apple said "Microsoft would never screw us." Everyone in the room laughed, then printed their resumes. The company did not last long.

Re:Nokia may be hosed (3, Interesting)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183752)

The only thing Microsoft did to hurt FTP software was to finally include a TCP stack in windows, which was already standard in all the other OSes of the time.

FTP software was mismanaged and had a very public downward spiral. To pin this all on Microsoft after the fact is absurd.

Asymco has a nice detailed list (3, Informative)

rsborg (111459) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183896)

Here [asymco.com] . My favorite one:

And finally,

Nokia. No, not this OS deal, but in August 2009 ”The worldwide leader in software and the world’s largest smartphone manufacturer have entered into an alliance that is set to deliver a groundbreaking, enterprise-grade solution for mobile productivity. Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a shared vision for the future of mobile productivity. This is the first time that either company has embarked on an alliance of this scope and nature.”

The plan was to bring “Microsoft Office Mobile and Microsoft business communications, collaboration and device management software to Nokia’s Symbian devices.”

What happened? One and a half years later the same Stephen Elop announced that Symbian will be deprecated.

If you lie down with a dog... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183906)

you'll get up raped by a dog, if you get up at all.

Don't lie down, Nokia.

How can they lose (4, Funny)

Tiger Smile (78220) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183452)

They should zune ahead of Apple and Google in no time.

Re:How can they lose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183826)

As a Nokia employee I resent your insinuation you insensitive clod! BTW, "Zune ahead" ... is that the same as "plunge in flames to a dismal end"? In which case I'd agree. Just commenting, there is some absolutely amazing work being done within Nokia based on Qt. It would be a tragedy if that did not come to fruition. I hope Meego continues and a delivers an awesome product for us all. If not I'll pamper my N900 until it dies :(

Wow (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183454)

This is one move I don't understand.... Nokia has been fumbling for so long I guess this is one more fumble closer to the grave. I loved their phones especially when you de-branded them.

Nokia your mistake was allowing carriers to degrade your product with their junkware.

Re:Wow (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183542)

This is one move I don't understand.... Nokia has been fumbling for so long I guess this is one more fumble closer to the grave. I loved their phones especially when you de-branded them.

Nokia your mistake was allowing carriers to degrade your product with their junkware.

Their mistake was failure to innovate in their OS. S30 does not stack up well to the other major phone OS players. I would choose an Android, Microsoft, HP, RIM or even Apple ahead of Symbian. It was great for smartphones three years ago, but who would choose it today?

Re:Wow (1)

msauve (701917) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183620)

I loved their phones especially when you de-branded them.

How odd. I started hating "their" phones when they became badge engineered (e.g. HTC CDMA phones with Nokia branding)

Well, obviously (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183458)

Nokia is sinking on it's burning platform, but then instead of jumping onto the water, the CEO just tied all the workers to an anchor (WP7) and chucked the anchor into the water.

Couple this with "lol, let's move the hq to CA" bullshit, and they're surprised the employees aren't happy?

Goodbye Nokia. It was nice knowin' ya.

--
BMO

Re:Well, obviously (4, Interesting)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183586)

Just out of curiosity, what else were they going to do? Their current strategy of trying to rely on Symbian while transitioning to MeeGo is what got them into this trouble. Who knows when MeeGo will actually be ready or comparably polished to iOS and Android. Symbian isn't going to magically get much better than it is now, and where's it's at now has taken a lot of development.

The only other move was to use Android, but that caries its own set of risks. They mentioned the possibility of commoditization, which doesn't ring true to me, but is a possibility. Worse is the ongoing legal dispute over Android with Oracle. Google doesn't indemnify anyone, so if things go in Oracle's favor it may be the manufacturers having to foot the bill. Another "big if", but it's not something a company can outright dismiss.

It seems like almost everyone around here is heralding this is a horrible move. Does anyone actually have a suggestion for what Nokia should have done instead? A suggestion that doesn't include making different decision several years ago, magically making Symbian as good as Android or iOS, or somehow ignoring the mythical man month and getting MeeGo out the door in a reasonable time frame. It's easy to say a particular decision is crap when you're not expected to come up with a workable one yourself.

Re:Well, obviously (1)

jappleng (1805148) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183628)

Symbian was fine 15 years ago... Seriously, that POS OS has been around for too long. Microsoft has a lot of potential, a hundred thousand times more than what Palm/HP has. They better go big or go home.

Re:Well, obviously (1)

SudoGhost (1779150) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183886)

They better go big or go home.

If that was true, they would have chosen Android. Microsoft isn't exactly a powerhouse when it comes to mobile devices. The top phone OSes are Android, RIM, Symbian, iOS, and Windows (Not necessarily in that order.) What I do know, is that Windows is on the very bottom of that list. RIM and iOS wouldn't be interested in Nokia, so it's either Android or WP7.

Android has a lot of potential, a hundred thousand times more than what Windows Phone 7 has. They better go big or go home.

FTFY

Microsoft takeover of Finland's top tech company (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183466)

Maybe it was the site of CEO Elop hopping around the stage yelling "Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows!" that made the Nokia long-timers grab their top coats.

Re:Microsoft takeover of Finland's top tech compan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183526)

At least they aren't grabbing their ankles.

Fools (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183474)

You wanna bring in Silicon Valley software dynamism so you bring in a Microsoft exec???

Doh! (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183486)

Of course it's a stupid idea. But what did they expect? They hired a former MS exec to be their CEO. Of course he would make them dependent on MS - that's the only thing the fool can be expected to know.

It's like SGI hiring a former HP exec to be their CEO and then killing off MIPS to move to Itanium - totally and utterly predictable because these guys only know the bubble they've been in for most of their corporate career. They can't "think outside of the box" because they are the box.

Re:Doh! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183622)

Maybe the job Elop really wants is the one that Ballmer now has. This can't hurt his chances of being chosen by the MS board, if and when they decide the chair thrower has had a good run.

That's often a problem when hiring a CEO - you are paying them megabucks to run your company, but they are also looking after their own career. And sometimes those interests don't coincide. How do you know what Elop's motives are for this move, if you're on Nokia's board?

Re:Doh! (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183690)

It's official, my previous Nokia (running Symbian S60r3) that I lost about 6 months ago will be my last Nokia phone. Mind you, my hand held cell phones have ALL been Nokia's from the late '90 until I picked up a used iPhone to replace my lost Nokia.

Re:Doh! (1)

Bloodwine77 (913355) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183858)

Let's be honest, though. Nokia makes solid, reliable cellphone hardware, but their smartphone OS software isn't cutting it.

Worse than peeing their pants. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183488)

A Nokia executive once said that switching to Android would be like peeing your pants for warmth. It might help temporarily, but would turn your phones into commodities. Nokia would be forced to sell based on price alone!

I submit that going with WP7 is worse. It has all the disadvantages of Android in that your competitors can use it also, so it turns your phones into commodities. But it has none of the advantages - the extensive Android market, UI customization, and no OS licensing fee.

Using WP7 is like peeing your pants while Redmond gives you a golden shower.

Re:Worse than peeing their pants. (3, Interesting)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183600)

Just for the sake of clearing up this oft-repeated fallacy:

Android is all about choice; you can either have no licensing fee, OR you can have "the extensive Android market." Those are mutually exclusive, though. Google charges for access to that market.

In fact, the numbers I've heard indicate that OEMs pay more to Google for each Droid (or similar) than they do to Microsoft for each WP7 phone. It's still only a few dollars each way, but Android is only free if you don't include *any* of Google's services on it.

Re:Worse than peeing their pants. (2)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183630)

Using WP7 is like peeing your pants while Redmond gives you a golden shower.

Wait, wouldn't that void your warranty as well as your bladder? The fiends!

Re:Worse than peeing their pants. (3, Insightful)

jappleng (1805148) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183678)

I tend to like peeing in my pants to stay warm as much as the next guy but I don't think that's going to resolve anything. There are two paths that companies can take to make a hardware/platform successful. You can either act like a pope and tell the world that it's the single most greatest thing in all existence and everyone will follow you like a cult, or you can create a developer friendly environment that makes your heart warm from working with the system. Microsoft has never come out with software that makes your teeth crunch for software development, XNA for example is an incredible environment and it isn't fixated on Java like Google. So there is more potential simply because it's not using Java, and more people will love working with it.

However you do run into some exceptions... Sony offers terrible platforms, like the PS2, PSP, and PS3. A friend who is developing for the PSP2 told me it's just as bad but Sony has a lot of backup. PS2 was one of the most successful systems in gaming history, in fact, it probably still is. If it were up to me, I would love to see phones developed under WP7 instead of Android, Symbian, and iOS, just because from experience, it's a better system to work with. However, the mass-market is already all over iOS and Android already which makes it really hard for Microsoft to keep up and Palm recently announced that their trying to be the third wheel so to speak. As a developer, there are too many options and you will ultimately pick the platform that will make you the most money. That's why in reality, Microsoft isn't a good platform to take, at least not yet.

Re:Worse than peeing their pants. (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183680)

The problem to go with Android is that Nokia needs to compete with LG, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc. Those are already established companies. Nokia has no say in shaping its own future.

Teaming up with Windows phone 7 has no such problem. It is an infant OS, with no established player. Besides, WP7 desperately needs a partner that has global influences, Nokia and WP7 are made for each other.

Re:Worse than peeing their pants. (1)

uvajed_ekil (914487) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183796)

A Nokia executive once said that switching to Android would be like peeing your pants for warmth...I submit that going with WP7 is worse.

Yes, Nokia really shit the bed with this decision. I've owned 3 Nokia phones, though I don't have one currently. It is now safe to say that I will not own another one any time soon, unless someone gives me an N900 for free to play around with, or something.

That's scandinavians for you .... (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183494)

i would like to see same kind of thing happen in america. or, any other country for that matter.

Re:That's scandinavians for you .... (1)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183788)

i would like to see same kind of thing happen in america. or, any other country for that matter.

It happens in America all the time. The fact that you don't know this indicates you spend too much time reading Slashdot, and not enough time reading the New York Times.

How's that "new media" working out for ya?

Nokia who? (2)

flotsam (67862) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183496)

I have not considered a Nokia phone in years. Who needs a phone that is three or more years out of date?

Now musing a little, I wonder isn't a partnership with MS one of the last things a company does either before being acquired by MS or filing for bankruptcy?

Re:Nokia who? (5, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183536)

Now musing a little, I wonder isn't a partnership with MS one of the last things a company does either before being acquired by MS or filing for bankruptcy?

The path MS has traveled is littered with former partners, all with knives in their backs.

Finnish Revolution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183502)

Finland should take a page from Egyptian protesters and get their ass to Tahrir Square to demand the departure of Microsoft regime.

"Irhal Elop"

Meebo? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183508)

And here i was, waiting for the successor to the n900 (the whole pesky no 3g on att and all that) and thinking that the n900 replacement with an updated OS, 3/4g connectivity, and a capacitive screen would be the ideal phone....
 
Oh well, the atrix looks pretty nifty. Gonna have to spend $500 on the nebook-like dock, but it'll be worth it, i hope...

That was quick (2)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183528)

New Nokia CEO, Stephen Elop's career, as documented on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]

Before starting at Nokia, Elop worked for Microsoft from January 2008 to September 2010 as the head of the Business Division, responsible for the Microsoft Office line of products, and as a member of the company's senior leadership team. Before this, he was the COO of Juniper Networks, the president of worldwide field operations at Adobe Systems, and the CEO of Macromedia until acquisition by Adobe.
----

Lots of CEOs,CIOs, etc. bring in old workmates in their new workplace. While the existing relationship simplifies trust and reporting, things don't always go to plan, as folks don't really know workmates that well. I wonder is this is similar. He knew Ballmer and decided to forge an alliance based on a past work relationship. Or perhaps, one of the big reasons for his hire was his relationship with the Microsoft leadership team.

There is no "low end" in the future (5, Interesting)

Zenin (266666) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183588)

The Nokia execs and some tech writers make the case that Nokia thrives by selling very low end, but very robust phones in the hundreds of millions to the 3rd world where a modern smart phone wouldn't survive a day. They make the case that the Internet will be brought to developing nations via cell phones...low end cell phones, not high end smart phones.

It's a failed vision.

It is the vision of yesterday and today, but not of tomorrow. The "low end" of today won't exist tomorrow. Smart phones are advancing at such a pace that in the very near future none of the drawbacks they have today for developing nations (not rugged, very low battery life, high cost, etc) will still hold true. The market for low end voice/text-only cell phones will get taken over by low end smart phones....and chances are they'll be running Android, not Windows 7.

Nokia will be dead in ten years, quite possibly five.

Re:There is no "low end" in the future (5, Insightful)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183652)

Not really, in current smartphones, the screen itself costs upwards of $20 I believe. Whereas non smartphones are available for less than $20.
Assuming that the cost of an Android phone comes down to say $30, the price of a non smartphone will most prob. go down to $5 or so(only a tiny monochrome screen, cheaper processor,smaller battery-- infact one of the phones launched for approx$50 here has a standby time of 30 days, and the option of using AA cells in an emergercy)
You need to live in a developing nation to know the needs..

Right, and 10 years ago I had a 15lb laptop... (1)

rtilghman (736281) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183818)

Because, you know, the modern web is about 13 years old, and the pace of evolution is INCREASING.

In 5 years we'll have batteries that cost 10% of the price with components that draw 5% of the power and work off environmental factors (super efficient solar panels). You're post sounds like it was made by the guys at Nokia making 1999 phones in a 2010 world. Stand still and die.

I for one am happy someone FINALLY bashed Nokia over the head. Maybe now they at least have a chance to survive, at least a better one than the buckethead bracket of Dell and HP.

-rt

Re:There is no "low end" in the future (5, Insightful)

sunspot42 (455706) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183846)

>Not really, in current smartphones, the screen itself costs upwards of $20 I believe.

And what will a similar screen cost in 3 years? Probably $5. Tomorrow's smartphones will be as cheap as or cheaper than today's featurephones. Maybe everybody in the developing world won't be able to afford one, but hundreds of millions of people certainly will.

Motorola just announced an Android phone that can be hooked up to a docking station and connect to a monitor and full sized keyboard for use as a little computer. What happens in the developing world when your $50 smartphone can also double as your office and/or home computer? Suddenly that $50 smartphone looks like a pretty incredible deal.

Re:There is no "low end" in the future (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183754)

So uh, where is my rugged smartphone with 3G or better?

No More Nokia (2)

zaivala (887815) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183598)

That does it for me. Glad I've already switched to Pantech phones. (Pantech Impact. OS: Other) I specifically wanted a smartphone which did not use WindowsPhone, Android (you trust Google with YOUR personal data?), or Apple. That left Pantech and Blackberry, and the Pantech has a nicer keyboard.

MS vs Android, Nokia vs Apple (4, Interesting)

NimbleSquirrel (587564) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183638)

MS want to go after Android. With an ex-MS man at the helm of Nokia, I'm not surprised they have pushed this deal through (especially since MS have managed to piss of their other handset manufacturers, and they have in turn jumped to Android). It may hurt Android market share very briefly, but I'll wager it won't be for very long before Nokia dumps WinPhone7 if this deal even goes through.

MS is trying to play catch-up with Apple and Android, and is losing badly. Wasn't Elop complaining the other day that Nokia was stuck playing catch-up? How can throwing their lot in with MS help them? Unless Elop is playing this deal with MS, so he has a magic bullet against Apple, I can't see their market position getting any better.

I do have to wonder if this deal is more about solving Nokia's legal battles with Apple. Surely MS will happily hand over patent licenses if Nokia is going to make WInPhone7 devices. Not only would this potentially void some of Apple's patent claims against Nokia, but even if Apple won in the ITC, the devices it is seeking an injunction against will not be around much longer. On top of that, MS would see a handy market boost if the ITC found in favour of Nokia and placed an injunction against the GSM iPhone. There is a reason Apple is trying to kill GSM and pick up CDMA: they probably see they aren't going to win the GSM patent lawsuits that Nokia have filed against them. In terms of the Apple vs Nokia battle, Nokia aligning themselves with Microsoft is an almost perfect match. I'd say that there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes of this deal, in terms of patent cross-licensing, but Nokia won't reveal that until they get in a courtroom.

Given the sharholder and employee revolt against this decision, Elop may not be around much longer to see it through.

Dual/Triple boot (1)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183642)

Is there any reason why phones cannot be dual/trible boot? Take a phone like the N8,add a good processor and give the choice of Andriod, WP7 and Symbian, and it would be a killer choice Other than the added effort of driver development, what would be the difficulty with it?

Re:Dual/Triple boot (1)

Massacrifice (249974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183744)

what would be the difficulty with it?

Making the carriers sell it.

Re:Dual/Triple boot (3, Insightful)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183750)

1. Because manufacturers don't bother documenting hardware of providing drivers for more than one OS. (Ex: how Linux did run on iPAQ).
2. Because (1) will remain true for proprietary phone control stack even if it won't for the rest of hardware.

Nokia's implementation of Meego was supposed to have the first completely open cellular interface. Good luck getting that with Microsoft lackey at the helm.

Re:Dual/Triple boot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183868)

Worst idea ....ever

The Triple E (1)

Sam36 (1065410) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183644)

Extend, Embrace, Extinguish

Note this day as... (4, Insightful)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183758)

...the day Nokia committed suicide, abandoning their own top selling smartphone OS for one of the worst selling smartphone OS on the market.

They have only themselves to blame (1, Interesting)

dirkdodgers (1642627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183784)

MeeGo apparently just wasn't ready to go. They had years to ready maemo/meego for the mass market with apparently little to show for it. Maemo SHOULD have been Android. Give up on C++/QT already guys. The clear path forward is a sandboxed, garbage collected environment for standard "app" development, with low level access for game development.

Anyhow, I'll still get what I want out of it. They're going to put out a MeeGo geek toy by end of 2011. If selling WP7 to the masses is the price of being able to do that, then that's fine by me.

Re:They have only themselves to blame (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183884)

You obviously have never used Qt. If you had then you would understand the potential that it has. Check out Qt and QtQuick. You can do amazing things in a few lines of code in QtQuick. There are lots of youtube examples, check it out. One example was a complete graphically rich game, samegame [youtube.com] , which is one of the QtQuick examples. Length of source code: 300 lines. Runs on mobiles, windows, linux, not sure about mac. This was an early example, recent stuff is more jaw dropping.

For those too lazy to google (3, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#35183804)

TFSummary makes reference to the "burning platform". Here is the "burning platform" spiel from Stephen Elop (Nokia CEO) in its entirety. Blame the lack of paragraphs on slashdot's new, stupid lack of formatting. I'm too lazy to do it myself paragraph by paragraph.

“There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. He woke up one night from a loud explosion, which suddenly set his entire oil platform on fire. In mere moments, he was surrounded by flames. Through the smoke and heat, he barely made his way out of the chaos to the platform’s edge. When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters. As the fire approached him, the man had mere seconds to react. He could stand on the platform, and inevitably be consumed by the burning flames. Or, he could plunge 30 meters in to the freezing waters. The man was standing upon a “burning platform,” and he needed to make a choice. He decided to jump. It was unexpected. In ordinary circumstances, the man would never consider plunging into icy waters. But these were not ordinary times - his platform was on fire. The man survived the fall and the waters. After he was rescued, he noted that a “burning platform” caused a radical change in his behaviour. We too, are standing on a “burning platform,” and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour. Over the past few months, I’ve shared with you what I’ve heard from our shareholders, operators, developers, suppliers and from you. Today, I’m going to share what I’ve learned and what I have come to believe. I have learned that we are standing on a burning platform. And, we have more than one explosion - we have multiple points of scorching heat that are fuelling a blazing fire around us. For example, there is intense heat coming from our competitors, more rapidly than we ever expected. Apple disrupted the market by redefining the smartphone and attracting developers to a closed, but very powerful ecosystem. In 2008, Apple’s market share in the $300+ price range was 25 percent; by 2010 it escalated to 61 percent. They are enjoying a tremendous growth trajectory with a 78 percent earnings growth year over year in Q4 2010. Apple demonstrated that if designed well, consumers would buy a high-priced phone with a great experience and developers would build applications. They changed the game, and today, Apple owns the high-end range. And then, there is Android. In about two years, Android created a platform that attracts application developers, service providers and hardware manufacturers. Android came in at the high-end, they are now winning the mid-range, and quickly they are going downstream to phones under €100. Google has become a gravitational force, drawing much of the industry’s innovation to its core. Let’s not forget about the low-end price range. In 2008, MediaTek supplied complete reference designs for phone chipsets, which enabled manufacturers in the Shenzhen region of China to produce phones at an unbelievable pace. By some accounts, this ecosystem now produces more than one third of the phones sold globally - taking share from us in emerging markets. While competitors poured flames on our market share, what happened at Nokia? We fell behind, we missed big trends, and we lost time. At that time, we thought we were making the right decisions; but, with the benefit of hindsight, we now find ourselves years behind. The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don’t have a product that is close to their experience. Android came on the scene just over 2 years ago, and this week they took our leadership position in smartphone volumes. Unbelievable. We have some brilliant sources of innovation inside Nokia, but we are not bringing it to market fast enough. We thought MeeGo would be a platform for winning high-end smartphones. However, at this rate, by the end of 2011, we might have only one MeeGo product in the market. At the midrange, we have Symbian. It has proven to be non-competitive in leading markets like North America. Additionally, Symbian is proving to be an increasingly difficult environment in which to develop to meet the continuously expanding consumer requirements, leading to slowness in product development and also creating a disadvantage when we seek to take advantage of new hardware platforms. As a result, if we continue like before, we will get further and further behind, while our competitors advance further and further ahead. At the lower-end price range, Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than, as one Nokia employee said only partially in jest, “the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation.” They are fast, they are cheap, and they are challenging us. And the truly perplexing aspect is that we’re not even fighting with the right weapons. We are still too often trying to approach each price range on a device-to-device basis. The battle of devices has now become a war of ecosystems, where ecosystems include not only the hardware and software of the device, but developers, applications, ecommerce, advertising, search, social applications, location-based services, unified communications and many other things. Our competitors aren’t taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means we’re going to have to decide how we either build, catalyse or join an ecosystem. This is one of the decisions we need to make. In the meantime, we’ve lost market share, we’ve lost mind share and we’ve lost time. On Tuesday, Standard & Poor’s informed that they will put our A long term and A-1 short term ratings on negative credit watch. This is a similar rating action to the one that Moody’s took last week. Basically it means that during the next few weeks they will make an analysis of Nokia, and decide on a possible credit rating downgrade. Why are these credit agencies contemplating these changes? Because they are concerned about our competitiveness. Consumer preference for Nokia declined worldwide. In the UK, our brand preference has slipped to 20 percent, which is 8 percent lower than last year. That means only 1 out of 5 people in the UK prefer Nokia to other brands. It’s also down in the other markets, which are traditionally our strongholds: Russia, Germany, Indonesia, UAE, and on and on and on. How did we get to this point? Why did we fall behind when the world around us evolved? This is what I have been trying to understand. I believe at least some of it has been due to our attitude inside Nokia. We poured gasoline on our own burning platform. I believe we have lacked accountability and leadership to align and direct the company through these disruptive times. We had a series of misses. We haven’t been delivering innovation fast enough. We’re not collaborating internally. Nokia, our platform is burning. We are working on a path forward — a path to rebuild our market leadership. When we share the new strategy on February 11, it will be a huge effort to transform our company. But, I believe that together, we can face the challenges ahead of us. Together, we can choose to define our future. The burning platform, upon which the man found himself, caused the man to shift his behaviour, and take a bold and brave step into an uncertain future. He was able to tell his story. Now, we have a great opportunity to do the same. Stephen.

Curious how he is stunned by the fact that people are willing to pay for quality, but I'm surprised that he considers this little fact of life "game changing".

Apple demonstrated that if designed well, consumers would buy a high-priced phone with a great experience and developers would build applications. They changed the game,

Murder Contracts (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35183832)

Microsoft and Nokia have top secret contracts with the US Department of Defence , Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security, amony other.

Question:

Will Miscrosoft and Nokia use their "Executive Order" State Secrets immunities and impunities to contract to third and fourth parties for the murder of those who walked out?

"Microsoft and Nokia will argure: but but Judge, these swine are not human beings, they are "Property" and as such we can kill them as we like.

So Honerable Judge, FUCK YOU.

Sincerely Yours Microsoft and Nokia."

Fertilizer bombs can be very useful as you know!

-308

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