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Nokia Gives Some Hints On the Future of Qt

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the will-remain-two-letters dept.

KDE 329

An anonymous reader writes "Continuing the damage control following the announcement of the Nokia-Microsoft partnership, Nokia has a post on their official blog outlining the future of Qt which includes some (cherry picked) comments from Qt users. Phil from Nokia writes, 'Lots of great questions and comments coming from you all on the future of Qt. One thing is for sure: Qt remains to play an important role in Nokia. We'll have more Qt-related posts coming this week during Mobile World Congress, but for the time being, the Director of Qt's ecosystem, Daniel Kihlberg, wrote a post on Qt's official blog on the future of Qt.'" An anonymous reader points to one unattractive possible future for Qt.

cancel ×

329 comments

Thump thump! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190808)

First!

Why is this a bad thing? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190812)

I would love to hear all the reasons this is such a bad thing. Sometimes I think slashdotters would see the whole world conglomerate into anything but Microsoft. I think it is just a vouge thing amongst wannabe techo "elitists" to hate on Microsoft. Seriously, investigate these things without bias and see where they head. It just might not be as bad you would like it to be.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190848)

If you're being paid by Microsoft, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191086)

It's people like you that make real Linux and open source people look bad.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190878)

I would love to hear all the reasons this is such a bad thing.

Here's one:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/microsofts-windows-phone-7-code-limitation-puts-an-end-to-mobile-firefox/7785 [zdnet.com]

So no more Firefox for Nokia mobiles it seems, at least until Microsoft decides to release a native development kit (if they ever do). This is all the more troubling because Firefox is also locked out of iOS:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9188721/Mozilla_Forget_about_Firefox_on_iPhone [computerworld.com]

Why should Firefox be barred on the iPhone? There is no defensible reason.

So now we have two platforms for which Firefox Mobile is blocked from competing on. One for technical reasons, which are fixable but I would guess unlikely to get any love from Microsoft. One purely for policy reasons, which are eminently fixable but also unlikely to get any love from Apple. I don't want it to be as bad as it is but, regrettably, it is as bad as it is.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190946)

How is it Microsoft's fault if Apple doesn't let Firefox on iPhone?

Besides, Opera Mini is available for iOS. I'm sure if Opera gets in, Firefox does too.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

FxChiP (687923) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191124)

I'm sure if Opera gets in, Firefox does too.

Actually, no; Opera Mini just tells a rendering proxy at Opera's servers to render a page for it, and the proxy renders the page and sends the data (and all the interactive regions and such) back to Opera Mini, which presents it. This is necessary because Apple doesn't allow 'language interpreters' to be in applications in the App Store (last I checked, anyway). The way Opera does it is complete crap, actually, in my opinion, but they did manage to use it to beat the system.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191262)

Google Voice still isn't on iPhone. Apple's criteria aren't logic and analogy, they are ideology.

Opera and Skype make proprietary, closed-source products with iffy cross-platform support, so they are in. Google and Mozilla make open source apps that work well across many platforms, so Apple hates them and they don't get approved.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

zioncat (632849) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191286)

Google Voice still isn't on iPhone.

Then what's this [apple.com] ?

Apple not the one blocking Firefox on iPhone (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191042)

Dude, your OWN LINK states that Firefox are the people who are not going to craft Firefox for the iPhone.

Now that Apple has relaxed the stance on interpreters, it could be the case that Apple would allow it. Although if they will, we should see some other browser before too long, like Opera...

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (5, Interesting)

Morty (32057) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190904)

I would love to hear all the reasons this is such a bad thing.

Why Nokia getting into bed with MSFT is bad:

  1. Nokia owns one of the major Linux desktop components, qt. This potentially endangers that component, by removing some of Nokia's incentive to continue qt development.
  2. Nokia owns one of the major open-source phone OSs, Symbian. This potentially endangers that OS.
  3. Nokia is involved in another open-source, Linux-based phone OS, MeeGo. This potentially endangers that OS, too.

In a single stroke, three high-profile open-source components are potentially endangered. If you care about open-source, this is a bad thing.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190912)

Don't worry. Most of the people who actually cared about OSS left Slashdot quite a while ago. There's only a few of us left these days.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (0)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190938)

I'd love to see where you get your data from AC troll.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191064)

Nokia owns one of the major Linux desktop components, qt. This potentially endangers that component, by removing some of Nokia's incentive to continue qt development.

I don't see the danger of them discontinuing Qt. I do however see the danger of discontinuing Linux support, making it Windows only, and possibly changing the license to something Microsoft likes more.

Fortunately Qt, being open source, can be forked, but that's only the second best alternative.

Nokia owns one of the major open-source phone OSs, Symbian. This potentially endangers that OS.

That's a more serious threat. Even if the OS should get forked, it's unlikely that any phone producer would use it if it's not backed by a major corporation.

Nokia is involved in another open-source, Linux-based phone OS, MeeGo. This potentially endangers that OS, too.

Same here.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (2)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191296)

Fortunately Qt, being open source, can be forked, but that's only the second best alternative.

No, it's the best alternative. That way the development ends up being needs driven instead of agenda driven.

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191074)

Goodbye Nokia.

I'm still have a 5-year old symbian80 smartphone (a descendant of Nokia's very first line of smartphones).
CTL C is all I need to do to copy and paste.
Now how soon before a windows smartphone will have this functionality?

Now even non-smartphones can run Android (i886 by motorola) [motorola.com] .
While this phone is running a non-open version of android (it's still running a linux kernel [pcmag.com] ) - it shows that Nokia had other options.

The worst Smartphone OS will now be bundled with the most "under-dog" of smartphone providers.

I expect the same to happen to QT.
I had great hope that the new CEO would have shed - attachment to his former employer.
Looks to me he's still in love with microsoft.

Nokia has (or perhaps-now "had") some of the most innovative engineers out there.
Because of this, the smartphone market will suffer, QT will suffer - Linux will suffer.
And shareholders will suffer, they're currently suffering over 14%.

Nokia, you had so much potential,
You came up with the first real smartphone,
You were #1 for a long time.

Now that smartphones are taking over, you hire a MS guy to run your company...

Well, good luck with that.

(On the other-hand I just became a Motorola developer because of this.)

Me, my 2cents and my 9 nokia phones (7 retired).

Re:Why is this a bad thing? (3, Insightful)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191322)

I had great hope that the new CEO would have shed - attachment to his former employer.
Looks to me he's still in love with microsoft.

His actions are those of a Microsoft employee and apparently he is one of the largest owners of Microsoft stock. If this doesn't cause a shareholder lawsuit then Finnland might as well go back to making paper.

don't worry so much (1)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191248)

1. Nokia owns one of the major Linux desktop components, qt. This potentially endangers that component, by removing some of Nokia's incentive to continue qt development.

Fortunately, Qt isn't needed for a modern Linux desktop. In fact, I'd say the majority of Linux desktop users don't ever even install it. If Nokia's downfall were the catalyst for unifying Linux under a single UI, all the better. However, frankly, I don't see anything happening to Qt: it's open source and it will survive with or without Nokia.

2. Nokia owns one of the major open-source phone OSs, Symbian. This potentially endangers that OS.

Just because Nokia took their failing OS and open sourced it doesn't mean anybody gives a damn. The sooner Symbian goes away, the better, open source or not.

3. Nokia is involved in another open-source, Linux-based phone OS, MeeGo. This potentially endangers that OS, too.

I'd like to see MeeGo succeed, but so far, it's little more than vaporware. MeeGo only had/has potential value: if it catches on, then it helps Linux. If MeeGo never materializes, nothing of value will be lost.

The burning question (2)

Mathinker (909784) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190820)

Will Nokia send a takedown notice to that parody of their documentation website? Or just grin and bear it?

Parody by regexp.... I love it!

Re:The burning question (1)

iplayfast (166447) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190978)

I wasn't sure if I should give that parity a thumbs up or down.

Re:The burning question (2)

steeleyeball (1890884) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191068)

parity?... don't you mean give it an odd or even or none? A parody would get a thumbs up or down.

I have an idea... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190826)

KDE's Qt developers should split off and form a separate company -- named Trolltech -- and continue work on a forked Qt.

Re:I have an idea... (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190876)

KDE's Qt developers should split off and form a separate company -- named Trolltech -- and continue work on a forked Qt.

Great idea!

Wish I'd thought of it :-)

This is probably great news for Qt (1, Funny)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190832)

Microsoft is undoubtedly a big player in the software industry. If they add it to Visual Studio and makes Qt a first-class .Net citizen I can't see anything bad coming out of this for Qt and Qt developers.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (2)

Neil Hodges (960909) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190856)

Despite the fact there's already a Visual Studio Add-in for Qt [nokia.com] .

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190928)

But if it were to be official and recommended and supported up there with C#. It would be a dream.

But we all know Microsoft doesn't like cross-platform.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (2)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190968)

But if Microsoft's incompatible QT.net were to be official and recommended and supported up there with C#. It would be a nightmare.

We all know Microsoft doesn't like cross-platform.

FTFY

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191290)

So you're saying that using Windows Forms and VB.NET is better?

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190976)

But we all know Microsoft doesn't like cross-platform.

Yep, that's why the .NET framework is designed to be platform agnostic and the whole thing is submitted to ECMA and ISO for standardization. Just because they haven't implemented it on other platforms doesn't mean that they are against cross-platform.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (3, Insightful)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191034)

But we all know Microsoft doesn't like cross-platform.

Yep, that's why the .NET framework is designed to be platform agnostic and the whole thing is submitted to ECMA and ISO for standardization

Yes yes, The OOXML is also ECMA certified. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191102)

I see where you're going but I don't see why their .NET efforts has to be affected by the OOXML screwup. .NET has been around for much longer time and the standardization process is much more mature. That's why you can build a program on Linux using Mono, copy it to a Windows machine and run it.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (4, Insightful)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191128)

Yeah. There will be exactly one first class implementation, available on one operating system [Windows].

Then there will be partial implementations elsewhere.

For an example of this see...Microsoft SilverLight.

Standardisation? (2)

cheros (223479) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191054)

the whole thing is submitted to ECMA and ISO for standardization

What, like OOXML? Do you reckon they would have to buy votes again or is the ISO process now sufficiently damaged to just push it through? I'm not even talking about ECMA, that's just rubber stamp based marketing.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190872)

uhh...what? fuck .NET.. keep it bare metal please..it's easier on battery life and responsiveness.. the travesty of java VM on android is ample proof of this..

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190950)

The only thing that makes Linux usable is the fact that Mono runs on it.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (2)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190974)

The only thing that makes Linux usable is the fact that Microsoft hasn't crippled it yet.

FTFY

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (1)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191238)

Wow, you really are out of it. Most apps on Linux are written in C++ or Python.

I actually like Mono, but almost nothing on Linux uses it. In part, that's because the Linux community doesn't trust it (an irrational fear), and in part because the few Mono apps that actually had any use on Linux at all (Tomboy, F-Spot, Beagle, Banshee) were resource hogs and flaky so they got replaced.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190980)

uhh...what? fuck .NET.. keep it bare metal please..it's easier on battery life and responsiveness.. the travesty of java VM on android is ample proof of this..

90% of the executing code on Android is actually native. It's only the apps which are primarily Java based; and the stock apps spend most of their CPU time in native methods. Many of the built-in apps and services are simple wrappers around various native libraries existing in /system/lib.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191070)

then why do they bother with java at all?

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191120)

Because they want to offer a high-level set of APIs which makes it relatively easy to rapidly develop applications.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191154)

Also, this leaves more time to debug for the many different Android models ;)

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190874)

Nooo. Nokia does not want the phone to be 'open' - but crippled and Jailed like a Sony.
Apple and Android have a solid base - now why would people buy a third, when Symbian was rejected for being too inflexible.
Mr Samsung and Mr HTC are going to offer more bang for buck, so the success or otherwise lies finessing the amount of cripplement at purchase time. Be aware those that do deals with Microsoft - have never fared well.

Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP7 (4, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191030)

When the Q&A starts you see this:
Q: Anonymous Coward February 12, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Thanks. Please answer one more question as soon as you are able to: Will Qt be ported to Windows Phone? Iâ(TM)d assume it would be technically possible, but would you be allowed to do that business-wise â¦?

A: Aron (Nokia) February 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Qt will not be ported to Windows Phone 7. One of the key benefits of joining an established ecosystem is that there is an established toolchain that everyone uses. All Windows Phone apps will run on all WP7 devices. Adding Qt to the mix would only cause fragmentation.

Unfortunate from a Qt perspective but wise from a developer ecosystem perspective.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (1)

Florian Weimer (88405) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191118)

Qt is free software. How can Nokia prevent ports to platforms such as Windows Phone 7? They can refuse to make it part of an official Nokia-backed Qt release, but they cannot prevent the port from happening.

On the other hand, there don't seem to be many external contributions to Qt, so such ports seem rather unlikely.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191140)

Alas, there is currently no native code support on WP7.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (1, Insightful)

NuShrike (561140) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191172)

How do you port something that entirely depends on access to the underlying native APIs to an environment whose whole purpose is to keep you away from the native API? As so far as not even have a native programming layer.

Qt's rendering is almost centered around OpenGL and shaders. Porting to Direct* is going to a huge setback, and it's not even available on Wimpy7s either!

That is already a measure of how immature Wimpy7s is.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (1)

Florian Weimer (88405) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191270)

How do you port something that entirely depends on access to the underlying native APIs to an environment whose whole purpose is to keep you away from the native API? As so far as not even have a native programming layer.

Perhaps using C++/CIL? It certainly needs quite a bit porting. (And Qt is not tied to OpenGL.)

So Nokia could say, "we will not commit resources to a WP7 port, but will happily include a community-provided one", with full knowledge that it is quite unlikely to happen, ever. Sends a much better message to the community.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (4, Interesting)

NuShrike (561140) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191318)

This [nokia.com] is why you can't port Qt to .NET/Silverlight. This is not even pointing out the marshalling issues.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191246)

They are not going to prevent anyone from doing anything. The question was "will you port" ad the answer was "no, we will not". Learn to read.

Re:Nope, scroll down, not going to be ported to WP (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191274)

It would be kinda tricky to port a C++ framework to the platform for which there is no C++ compiler (and no theoretical possibility to even write one with any decent performance of generated code).

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191146)

Yes, monopoly is big.
MS got control of Nokia with Elop. Elop is just a MS soldier doing what MS has planned.
MS does not need Qt and more important, anything open is poisonous for monopoly. So Nokia (MS) will shut down every open development. And probably in a way which is most harmful: They do it slowly and in secret so that every organisation investing to those will suffer more.

Re:This is probably great news for Qt (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191210)

Qt is a C++ framework. It cannot be a "first-class .NET citizen" by definition, since C++ itself is not a first-class .NET citizen.

I suspect that you can already run Qt on .NET using VC++ compiling to MSIL - it can do it to almost any C++ app. But the result is only .NET in a sense that it is bytecode which runs in .NET VM - it does not tie into .NET type system. You cannot take a C++ class and use it from C# in the same way you can today with code written in VB, F# or IronPython.

Intel was surprised as hell (4, Informative)

ryzvonusef (1151717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190850)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/12/nokias-marginalization-of-meego-came-as-a-surprise-to-intel/ [engadget.com]

I wonder whether there is any point in continuing on with QT? I mean it's awesome and all *now*, but will still be awesome after one year of neglect?

Re:Intel was surprised as hell (2)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191026)

If Nokia abandons Qt, maybe Intel or some other interested party could buy it from Nokia and continue, or if no suitable buyer can be found, maybe the Trolltech guys can fork it and start up Trolltech again.

Re:Intel was surprised as hell (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191094)

I mean it's awesome and all *now*, but will still be awesome after one year of neglect?

That is a very serious concern, considering how code has a tendency to go bad if it isn't tweaked often enough for no good reason.

Re:Intel was surprised as hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191170)

That is a very serious concern, considering how code has a tendency to go bad if it isn't tweaked often enough for no good reason.

Well yeah, the problem is that it stops working with all the other code that is tweaked for no good reason.

Fork (3, Insightful)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190866)

The only possible scenario for QT under Microsoft's control is gamesmanship to dilute it and undermine its usefulness to KDE and other open source projects. The only rational response is a quick and clean fork under a new name. In this way QT will develop better and faster than it ever has before, guided by the needs of a community and not handicapped by the vagaries of corporate politics. This has to be spearheaded by the KDE project, the largest participant in the QT ecosystem.

Re:Fork (0)

awestruk (1667899) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190930)

OR, maybe Microsoft hopes Qt will become to the Windows Phone what the Cocoa is to the iPhone... Ever try to learn Cocoa and develop for the iPhone? It's confusing as hell. Had I the chance to develop for a mobile device using Qt....I'd be in heaven(assuming the framework doesn't change too much) : ) Especially the 50 projects I've been building using Qt...I'm sure they wouldn't be too hard to port : ) What about putting KDE on a mobile device (drools)? Maybe microsoft is finally going to do what apple did and piggyback off of opensource projects...

Re:Fork (3, Insightful)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191038)

They've already announced that Qt won't be ported to WP7, which to me seems like suicide.. They pushed Qt hard as their unified development platform for all their devices, a lot of people learned it and loved it, and now they're completely abandoning that strategy. A move like this really upsets developers, and I think they're much more likely to move to Android now than to develop for WP7...

Re:Fork (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191264)

I have always suspected that the "Qt for all Nokia devices" plan is not feasible anyway.
Putting Qt on Symbian is like putting lipstick on a pig. And it caused a tremendous amount of drag on development of Qt.
Now, hopefully, we can shed it and concentrate on relevant platforms. Such as MeeGo, which is not going anywhere yet.

Re:Fork (1)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191182)

KDE-like interfaces on a mobile device have effectively been tried and they don't work (and were a dismal failure in the market): mobile devices are not desktops, and you really need to rewrite most apps from scratch. I doubt KDE (or Gnome for that matter) would even be good on a tablet.

Mobile versions of Qt may finally have reached the point where they are usable on mobile devices; KDE will never be without a fundamental rewrite.

Take a deep breath (4, Informative)

21mhz (443080) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191204)

The only possible scenario for QT under Microsoft's control

Qt is not under Microsoft's control. Nokia is not under Microsoft's control to begin with.

Re:Take a deep breath (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191224)

Sigh. Right. Wormtongue has moved into the palace and set up housekeeping, but no, Saruman's not in charge, or anything.

Nokia Stock Plunges ! (2)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191276)

I am a nerd.

I am a nerd who watch the stock market closely.

After the announcement of Nokia jumping into the sack with Microsoft, this is what happened ---> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/elop-gambles-nokias-future-on-microsoft-partnership/articleshow/7486397.cms [indiatimes.com] " .... with Nokia's stock closing down a staggering 14.22 percent at 7.00 euros

Gag me. (4, Insightful)

lexidation (1825996) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190882)

Lots of great questions and comments coming from you all on the future of Qt. One thing is for sure: Qt remains to play an important role in Nokia. We’ll have more Qt-related posts coming this week during Mobile World Congress...

I'm used to PR people spray painting happy faces all over everything, but this is some of the gaggiest PR barf I've had spilled in my path.

Fool me once (5, Insightful)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190902)

Back last autumn, Nokia had promised that it had finally gotten its platform house in order:

-S40 for dirt-cheap phones. No apps anyway, so it doesn't matter for developers.
-Symbian for feature phones.
-And Meego for advanced phones and devices.

But devs would only have to use one platform (Qt) to target both Symbian and Meego. Oh, and Qt will also run on Win/Mac/Lin. Icing on top.

That's a story. And after all the bungling, it looked like devs and users would forgive Nokia, and give it another shot.

But now, it changes the platform story once again. No stability. No trust. And no reason why users and devs shouldn't abandon Nokia for Android.

Re:Fool me once (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35190922)

Soooooo True.

Re:Fool me once (4, Insightful)

imroy (755) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191018)

Back last autumn, Nokia had promised that it had finally gotten its platform house in order

That would have been before Stephen Elop, former Microsoft executive, became the president and CEO of Nokia?

Re:Fool me once (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191104)

Actually, interestingly, it was afterwards.

At that time I thought that Elop wasn't an MSBot, and actually had a good plan suited to Nokia's history and situation.

I can't find a link at the moment because "Qt Nokia" just brings up the latest developments.

Nokia's also dropped the free music on Ovi, which was a great differentiator.

Re:Fool me once (5, Insightful)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191142)

Instead we are seeing the slow-motion theft and destruction of the entire company. It started with appeasement. Then this move, accompanied by some BS hand-waving about the future of the other technology. That was necessary to keep the in-house people from a full-scale revolt. Then those systems will be, when the time is right, "deprecated," and divisions laid off, and it becomes an all-Microsoft OS operation. The company will steadily lose market share and money and eventually get bought for a song, ala Palm. But along the way they'll have shoveled a big pile of money Microsoft's way, while at the same time allowing Microsoft to prolong its own fantasy of being relevant in the future.

Re:Fool me once (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191316)

It started with appeasement.

Hello, Godwin [wikipedia.org] , are you there?

Erm... What exactly are they saying about MeeGo? (4, Interesting)

Mr Z (6791) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190908)

- Nokia also announced it will ship its first MeeGo-related device in 2011, which will rely on the Qt ecosystem – and then will continue with MeeGo as an open source project for future disruption.

Uh... "for future disruption"? What does that mean?

And "will continue with MeeGo as an open source project".... Does that mean the community of folks who buy it have to provide their own updates, much like what has happened with the N900? [maemo.org]

Re:Erm... What exactly are they saying about MeeGo (5, Funny)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191052)

Stephen Elop kept using the word "disruption", I'm don't think even he even knows exactly what he means by that...

Re:Erm... What exactly are they saying about MeeGo (1)

skegg (666571) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191258)

Inconceivable.

Re:Erm... What exactly are they saying about MeeGo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191088)

Atleast we can provide the pdaes our self.
Im more afraid that wimo7 shall repete it's history.

I mean all other windows mobile os lasted for 6 months to 12 months then came a new generation. no updates to the newer version and no way to run apps between different versions

Re:Erm... What exactly are they saying about MeeGo (1)

Masterofpsi (1643965) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191294)

- Nokia also announced it will ship its first MeeGo-related device in 2011, which will rely on the Qt ecosystem – and then will continue with MeeGo as an open source project for future disruption.

Uh... "for future disruption"? What does that mean?

My guess is he meant "distribution," but seeing how he keeps using that same word it's anyone's guess.

The Insane Triad (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190956)

I thought Nokia had come to its senses. I thought they were defining Symbian as legacy, MeeGo as dead, and moving on to Windows Mobile 7 as the ecosystem of choice going forward with a full partnership in helping to define what Windows Mobile 7 was.

Now I see Nokia is traveling down all three paths. What? This will work out for them every bit as well as Palm supporting both PalmOS and WinCE, never producing a great device for either OS and then eventually being subsumed by HP (although I have to admit that I do like WebOS).

I posted that I thought it was a triumph for MS and Nokia, that together they had amazing strengths that would propel them both forward. But I'm making a note here - if they (either!) aren't willing to let go of the legacy baggage that hangs about them, they are just so many WKRP turkeys stepping out of the helicopter wing in wing, dropping from the mobile ether. onto the parked cars of failed mobile devices below.

Goodnight, Nokia. Goodnight, Microsoft. Goodnight, Moon.

Re:The Insane Triad (3, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191080)

Now I see Nokia is traveling down all three paths. What?

They are not. All non-Microsoft paths will end, I suspect the remnants of the MeeGo path will be out by year's end, if not earlier. Symbian will have a longer tail due to its installed base and pipeline.

They will both charge on down the WP7 path, pushing closed, locked down systems with Microsoft firmly in control.

Re:The Insane Triad (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191250)

Now I see Nokia is traveling down all three paths. What?

It's pretty much continuing what it was doing, except now it diverts part of the insane R&D money that used to be sunk in Symbian to little effect, towards producing some WP7 devices where it does not have to do a lot software from scratch. I mean, it's an improvement.

Re:The Insane Triad (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191278)

Now I see Nokia is traveling down all three paths. What?

It sounded more like an attempt at consolation of all the Symbian and Qt developers who have been drinking the Kool-Aid for the last few months, and have now found out that no future supply is coming. They were, in essence, told that it will be available for a little bit more in small quantities.

Documentation? (1)

WeblionX (675030) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190966)

Are they going to finally get all their documentation up to date? For a prototype application I tried using Qt and found the documentation to be conflicting, and where it wasn't conflicting, it was just generally lacking.

Re:Documentation? (1)

awestruk (1667899) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190996)

The more people who use an open source project, the more support/documentation/money it gets...I'm surprised you don't know this...

Re:Documentation? (2)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191324)

Wait, what? The Qt documentation is by far the best I've seen. Care to point out a few examples where it's conflicting and/or lacking?

Motives of Stephen Elop? (5, Informative)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35190984)

Motives of Stephen Elop, doesn't own any Nokia shares, but hundreds of thousand Microsoft shares? Where is the loyalty?

From http://www.tracked.com/person/stephen-elop/ [tracked.com]

Aug 31, 2010: SOLD 23,250 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Jan 21, 2010: SOLD 8,434 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Sep 25, 2009: BOUGHT 136,308 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Sep 25, 2009: SOLD 12,422 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Aug 31, 2009: SOLD 11,614 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Sep 26, 2008: BOUGHT 51,301 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Sep 26, 2008: SOLD 4,675 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Aug 31, 2008: SOLD 6,939 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Aug 29, 2008: BOUGHT 76,141 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Jan 22, 2008: BOUGHT 62,520 MSFT shares [SEC Filing]

Nov 24, 2006: SOLD 1,315 ADBE shares [SEC Filing]

Oct 24, 2006: SOLD 1,315 ADBE shares [SEC Filing]

Oct 16, 2006: BOUGHT 100,000 ADBE shares [SEC Filing]

Oct 16, 2006: SOLD 100,000 ADBE shares [SEC Filing]

Oct 13, 2006: BOUGHT 116,124 ADBE shares [SEC Filing]

and microsoft-beware-stephen-elop-is-a-flight-risk [siliconbeat.com]

Surprise (2)

PastaAnta (513349) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191084)

1. Microsoft Fat Cat Exec leaves for heading Nokia.
2. Nokia ditches internal Linux development and saves MSs limping phone OS.
3. Profit!

How could that be a surprise?

Re:Surprise (1)

21mhz (443080) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191284)

You did not want to wait for step 2 to become true in order to post this witty comment. This is understandable, but might be proven wrong.

Re:Motives of Stephen Elop? (1)

toopok4k3 (809683) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191112)

Law is the explanation. Elop had insider information involving both MS and Nokia which prevented him from selling his MS shares and buying Nokia. At least this was the reason given by Nokia to a finnish newspaper.

Re:Motives of Stephen Elop? (3, Informative)

Rithiur (736954) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191148)

According to Finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat, Elop wasn't allowed to trade the shares [www.hs.fi] . Nokia informed the paper that after Elop started planning the co-operation with Microsoft, trading away the Microsoft stock and buying Nokia stock instead would have been considered illegal due to insider information.

A poor translation of the article is as follows:

On Saturday, Nokia informed Helsingin Sanomat that the CEO of Nokia, Stephen Elop, doesn't own any Nokia shares yet due to stock market regulations. The same reason has prevented Elop from selling his remaining Microsoft shares.

Stock market regulations prevent company insiders from using unreleased insider information in their trades. According to Nokia's interpretation, the changes in strategy that Elop planned were considered insider information until last Friday.

When Elop started his work on 21st of September, he also started to plan the new strategy. Nokia informed the because of this, Elop hasn't been able to buy shares.

According to Nokia, Elop had to stop selling his Microsoft shares last year for the same reason. According to Nokia's information, Elop was able to sell 60 percent of his Microsoft shares which means he still has 40 percent left to sell.

Elop stopped selling his Microsoft shares when significant co-operation with Microsoft was brought into the plans.

Nokia doesn't publish the date when that happened, but according to information from Nasdaq, Elop sold 23 000 Microsoft shared on the last day of previous August.

He still has 261 000 Microsoft shares.

Elop should be sued (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191014)

That joint press release is enough to make me barf and laugh, great puke out through my nose...

Elop should be sacked by nokia BOD, sued by shareholders and tarred and feathered. That grinning ape Ballmer, just unbelievable...

blah blah ecosystem blah what consumers want blah, bing, blah....

wait. what? bing? rofl.
cry

Fork it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191032)

This is going the way of OpenOffice. If Nokia is stupid enough to not put QT on WP7 QT should be forked. Imagine if in 2 years MS buys Nokia owns QT. Fork it now change the name, I am sure the KDE guys with Intel and a few others can run it a lot better.

The time to think is over its time to ACT FORK IT.

A to fast adoption of QT was Nokia's downfall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191078)

The idea was great, QT for everything on every phone. But the execution was like a novice developer who thinks rewriting is the solution to everything.
A ticket to disaster....

I liked Nokia, I liked that they tried to use open source tools to create a smart phone...

They had a good smartphone platform (Hildon/Maemo), they had even some tablets (N700, N800 and N810) and a phone (N900) manufactured with this platform. But what did they? Did they churn out other ones and fine tune it, slap a market on it and start get appealing for the crowd?

Now they changed the platform to a new toolkit (QT), after a year or so they integrated the unfinished changed Maemo with another platform (Moblin), also based on the previous toolkit (GTK+) Nokia used for Maemo before the QT switch and the Clutter toolkit, a openGL spin-off off GTK+, from Intel. This became Meego. After a another year they still hadn't released a phone with this triple changed platform.

What are they, dummies?

Maemo was good enough platform when it was released with the N900, it could easily compete with the early Androids. They lost the momentum by taking years to rewrite it instead of gradually change and improve it while churning out sexy smart phones.

When the N800 came out, I thought it was a missed chance, because they left out a SIM chip. That was four years ago. They could have ruled the smart phone world, but they didn't dare it when the time was right, so Apple blew them out of the water.

Idiots!!!

Yes, I'm upset, I had a N810 and a N900 because I saw the potential. Now I'm using a HTC Desire with GingerVillian mod and love it, but the revolution could have started three years early, Nokia didn't dare...

Microsoft/Nokia/Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191098)

First this: Qt apps in Ubuntu -> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/568
And now this.
Are these the first steps of the Ubuntu/Microsoft merge?

Re:Microsoft/Nokia/Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191186)

If that means that Ubuntu stops breaking everything every six months I'm happy.

good luck with that (4, Insightful)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191158)

The retention of Nokia’s 200 million Symbian-users is vital

Yeah, it is. Good luck with that. You effectively just canceled their platform (Symbian) and the only platform with any viable migration strategy (MeeGo). You also just removed the incentive for developers to create new apps for the Symbian platform.

You could have done something special by turning MeeGo into a platform that allows users to run Symbian, Qt, and Android, giving people a viable migration path. But none of that is going to happen with Windows Phone 7. And nobody is going to believe you are going to keep spending money on MeeGo now that you are in Microsoft's pocket and have your company run by an ex-Microsoft exec.

Developers are perceiving that MeeGo is dead, and with it, Qt is dead for your products. You might as well stop investing money in them now.

Cross-platform, except the new one... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191192)

So Nokia have a cross-platform framework which allows their devs to program an app once to work on all their smartphones.
Except the new one.

So this can only mean either they only plan to have one smartphone OS, the new one which already has an app framework. Therefore no need to support the old one. Bad news for Nokia employees in the Symbian and Maemo divisions, plus all their app developers and fans.

Or it means that Microsoft can now dictate to Nokia that they don't want Qt apps running on their phones, since they want their app devs using existing MS tools. This means Microsoft have effectively bought Nokia for free. Bad news for Nokia shareholders.

This is what happens when you do anythin with (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191200)

microsoft. there is a record of this recurring in the past 3 decades, yet, corporations and boards keep making that mistake over and over. one wonders why ...

I bought an N900 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191212)

I bought an N900 and I feel like a fool. I plunked down serious cash for a phone I was so eager for. I avoided getting an iPhone or an Android device because I saw the N900 as being a serious contender for the future, especially with the ability to write portable apps using a complete, powerful, open framework in Qt. Not to mention having a mobile Linux device capable of running anything that can be compiled, and having full control over the operating system itself.

Nokia has completely abandoned N900 owners by abandoning MeeGo and getting into bed with MS. Took our cash, said thanks very much, and then took a nice big dump over all of us.

I am usually the one amazed at others' gullability for marketing gimmicks. I can't believe I was gullible enough to buy an N900, thinking this was the long-term vision of Nokia. I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Congratulations you assholes, well done. I will never buy another Nokia device again. Never.

Business plan for TrollTech 2 (1)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191226)

Let's imagine a bunch of upset Qt devs get together and form a company to develop Qt outside Nokia.

What's their business plan?

Only one reason (1)

DMiax (915735) | more than 3 years ago | (#35191298)

There is only one reason for which WP7 can gain money to Nokia, that is if they can axe the symbian and meego division and reduce costs (which in the execs twisted perception usually equates to gaining money). I don't care what fancy words they put on this: Qt will be canceled, Symbian and MeeGo will die. And they will have to do it quickly if they don't want their stocks down another 20%.

My BS meter goes off the scale (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35191308)

Wow, this days we are getting used to people lying to us in an obvious ways and put an straight face over it as if we were really stupid, it reminds me to people in the financial sector. They believe that if they are confident in their statements people will follow. And they do, short term, but when people discover the truth, people feel betrayed.

The best thing they can do is tell the truth: "We are choosing the MS way, if you are a symbian developer, go away, we don't want you, we want developers that don't know-like how to manage memory their selves, that don't know-like how to make their own libraries. We want people who is proficient on MS technologies and don't like reinventing wheels so code is fast and MS-Nokia remains in control. Native code writers go to hell, you will be obsoleted or outsourced."

They should sell QT to someone that cares. It is not good for a company to not have a clear vision, trying to do one thing and the opposite. This is like sailing from UK to New York, then when you are in the middle of the Atlantic change course for Spain and when you are near Spain you change again to New York...

KDE Qt foundation people should fork the project.They will eventually.

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