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FBI Releases File On the Anarchist Cookbook

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the naughtiness-from-my-youth dept.

Government 375

An anonymous reader noted that the FBI has released its file on The Anarchist Cookbook, the 1971 manual of mayhem. It's a pretty long PDF that isn't actually OCRd but there's some crazy stuff in there. But my personal favorite is the scanned in images of 3.5" floppy disks.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Eh, it's tame... (4, Funny)

TWX (665546) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198614)

There was a chemistry teacher at my high school who had a copy printed off and bound on his front counter desk.

Of course, he also like to set up those little green plastic army men on that counter during tests, pour flammable liquid over the scene, then light it and play with them, making sound of death and agony as they melted.

Re:Eh, it's tame... (4, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198828)

They have to offer some job perks to encourage people who could be chemists to endure a classroom packed with children...

Re:Eh, it's tame... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199206)

... without pouring flammable liquid over the kiddies and setting them on fire.

Re:Eh, it's tame... (2)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199326)

isn't that one of the perks?

Re:Eh, it's tame... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198912)

If he was at my high school, he would have been tarred and feathered.

Re:Eh, it's tame... (3, Funny)

shuz (706678) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199226)

Nice, I remember my Sr. high school chemistry teacher not smiling a lot, except for on the one day of the year when he demonstrates the power of group 1 alkali metals and acetylene. For the acetylene he would fill a balloon with the gas, open up all the windows as well as open fire doors to the outside, then had a student wearing protective gear use a glowing splint to pop the balloon. He would be giggling the entire time, which to say was a little disconcerting at the time.

Re:chemistry teacher (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199350)

My Gram taught at the Jr. High chem depart, but it turned out she was a Mole for the FBI. /Joke

Re:Eh, it's tame... (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199454)

Of course, he also like to set up those little green plastic army men on that counter during tests, pour flammable liquid over the scene, then light it and play with them, making sound of death and agony as they melted.

We had a crazy old guy on the verge of retirement, he had a long history of flammable experiments. The one that really showed his humanity was with a hand-cranked centrefuge that he had dug out of the old lab equipment.

Long story short, he managed to over spin and shatter both of his vials and sprayed chemicals and glass across half the room. He then stood up from behind the bench he had hidden behind, looked out at the mayhem he had wrought looked shocked and apologized. "I guess that was a bad idea."

lol (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198618)

Put that in your nitrate and smoke it

I do the same thing. (4, Funny)

imamac (1083405) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198624)

That's how I backed up all my floppy disks, too!

Re:I do the same thing. (3, Funny)

TWX (665546) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198630)

I kept the important ones on the fridge with a magnet, so I knew where I could find them.

Re:I do the same thing. (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198770)

I kept the important ones on the fridge with a magnet, so I knew where I could find them.

I kept the [________________] ones [___________________________________________]

PS FUCK YOU ASCII ART FILTER

PPS YOU TOO CAPS FILTER

Re:I do the same thing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199354)

I'm sure those filters knew that nobody would have a freaking clue what you are talking about anyway. You should have obeyed them.

Re:I do the same thing. (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199406)

I'm Magnet Mayhem. Your cut rate insurance may not cover you. Are you in good hands?

Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (2)

ACK!! (10229) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198634)

Ah the book with the recipe for napalm that will according to legend blow you the fuck up. Great stuff. Its all fun and games until someone explodes into a ball of fire.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (2)

chemicaldave (1776600) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198680)

Ah the book with the recipe for napalm that will according to legend blow you the fuck up. Great stuff. Its all fun and games until someone explodes into a ball of fire.

You mean the OJ concentrate + gasoline formula (even styrofoam + gasoline)? Friends and I used that plenty of times as kids. It's actually very unimpressive, certainly no explosions.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198814)

I'm fairly sure that it isn't supposed to explode, per se; but if it doesn't stick to kids [numachi.com] it just ain't the real thing...

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

chemicaldave (1776600) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198872)

I'm fairly sure that it isn't supposed to explode, per se; but if it doesn't stick to kids [numachi.com] it just ain't the real thing...

It will stick if you throw it one someone (or some creature). But the gasoline won't explode, just burn slowly. On a cold enough day, it won't even light on fire.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

ginbot462 (626023) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198880)

Most caulk and sub-floor glue works. Looks like a torch! Just don't fling it at the ground and then try to stamp it out with your shoe. At least I can say those -- stop, drop, and roll films -- worked.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (4, Interesting)

definate (876684) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198886)

Then you should have tried the saltpeter and sugar smoke bomb. We smuggled quite a lot of saltpeter out from school. We also decided to throw in some match heads, and naphthalene (why not?). Cooked it on the oven, luckily in a small test quantity. All of a sudden, BAM, the room was full of smoke, from what was about a 50cent piece [wikipedia.org] worth of material.

The smoke was initially red, making me think the match heads got too hot. Scared the shit out of us. A red/white cloud, that races at your face, and quickly fills the entire kitchen. Mum was shocked, and impressed.

I'd highly recommend this recipe to anyone. Given the quantities are small enough (and given we weren't extremely lucky), we had it literally blow up right in our faces, and all we got was a little smoky, and the shock of our lives.

Having a look at ones like this...
saltpeter smoke bombs inside [youtube.com]
Smoke bomb (KNO3 + Sugar) [youtube.com]

I don't know what we did differently. Perhaps they're using a low grade KNO3, we were using lab grade stuff, and we prepared the mixtures specifically, made sure it was consistent. Also, we did a very thin, but wide mixture. Additionally, maybe the match heads (and naphthalene?) made it react quicker. Also, it reaching some temperature on the oven, might have triggered it to all ignite at once.

Ours was more like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IZX80i4cpU [youtube.com]

But in a confined space, with a fraction of the material, and it all went off at once.

BIG BADA BOOM! (Minus boom, just menacing hissing, and fuckloads of smoke)

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

Grimbleton (1034446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199124)

I've had a 10lb container of KNO3 for the last five years for expressly this purpose and haven't gotten around to doing it. Maybe I will this week...

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199528)

I've had a 10lb container of KNO3 for the last five years for expressly this purpose and haven't gotten around to doing it. Maybe I will this week...

Awesome! We'll be there. -- FBI & DHS

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198772)

It's not like the book isn't that well known. You'd think if the recipes were really dangerous (as opposed to harmless, they just don't work) more people would would be blowing their faces off. The FBI's PDF here has more functional information for Anarchists then the book does.

Knock knock: Banana Who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199080)

You'd think if the recipes were really dangerous (as opposed to harmless, they just don't work) more people would would be blowing their faces off.

Probably most idiot readers just tried smoking the roasted banana peels and after they realized all it gave them was a headache and coughing up nasty phlegm, they gave up on the remainder of the book.

I Don't Understand This Legacy (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198902)

Ah the book with the recipe for napalm ...

I simply don't understand the legacy this "book" has gathered over the years. I, in my infinite youth, once read the manual and you know what jumped out at me wasn't all these alleged homemade napalm and pipe bombs ... in fact, that stuff seemed so low quality and stupid to me that I don't even remember much of it. And I've often been told the napalm in the book really isn't the best stuff you can make with homemade items. Apparently there are much better mediums to use with fuel like Vaseline (petroleum jelly) if you can get enough of it.

But what really stuck out to my late teenage mind was how the author of it seemed to be obsessed with disruption. I remember it reading like a case study for "common" scenarios whereby you could operate within questionable circumstances to undermine regular corporate and government actions -- specifically in Western nations.

For example, in one of the scenarios the book presupposes that you have a large contractor building some huge building right next door to your home that you refused to sell (like the beginning of the film Up). So it goes about how to put nails through strips of webbing, then lay them across the dig site at night and cover them with a bit of gravel to puncture holes in the tires of machinery. Or get used oil from your car and go spill it next to their machinery and then tip off the EPA. The list went on and on for many pages about how to sabotage several scenarios.

And I wasn't too impressed with it. It was as if everyone thought that until this point in time no one had ever engaged in determined guerrilla warfare or an unfriendly neighborly spat. This book exhibits somewhat of an active imagination in causing trouble ... oftentimes this trouble is easily traced back to you no matter how well the book tries to convince the reader you're being super careful and are virtually untraceable.

It simply blew my mind that someone could be arrested for possession of this book because after all the notoriety it's really not that useful. Sure, if your given scenario matches any in the books, you've got some cheap tricks at your disposal but anyone with an imagination would be far better equipped than anyone with that book. I found nothing permanently useful in that book and would recommend any of the US Army Field Manuals [wikipedia.org] for reading before that since the information is more generalized and interesting like the one on Counterinsurgency. FM 21-76 served me well in Boy Scouts -- probably better than the boy scout's manual. Why do we flip out that The Anarchist's Cookbook is available to terrorists when the Army is releasing far more useful books to anybody and everybody?

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (2)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198954)

The anarchists cookbook also has many things in it that are too dangerous to do, or wouldn't work at all. Some of them have a significant probability of hurting you.

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199448)

The anarchists cookbook also has many things in it that are too dangerous to do, or wouldn't work at all. Some of them have a significant probability of hurting you.

Well, that was the allure of having the book in junior high, wasn't it? And if you did that stuff and survived, you were really the shit. Bonus points for scarring.

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199178)

It has a naughty title, some media types and politicians went nuts over and and managed to ban it in various countries. Kids got hold of it, spread it around, and reveled in the naughtiness of it all. Like gaming from your youth, people have fond memories of it at the time.

Anyone with half a brain knew you could easily get better information from standard chemistry books from high school and college libraries, and stores.

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (1)

Cap'n.Brownbeard (1092507) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199184)

It simply blew my mind that someone could be arrested for possession of this book because after all the notoriety it's really not that useful.

I think you know why the gov't wants to lend the book notoriety

This book exhibits somewhat of an active imagination in causing trouble ... oftentimes this trouble is easily traced back to you no matter how well the book tries to convince the reader you're being super careful and are virtually untraceable.

Dumb criminals are dumb. And easy to catch.

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (2)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199196)

So that really WAS the book after all. I downloaded a copy of that as a kid and it seemed so stupid I figured I'd gotten a fake one.

Re:I Don't Understand This Legacy (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199296)

None of it's contents were worth a damn. Any kid with 1/2 a brain and without a pot addiction could make better anything by just thinking about it.

Bomb? grab 10-20 packs of sparklers, the kiddie safe ones with wood sticks worked best, but the extra-dangerous metal wires ones work as well.
Strip off all the stuff stuck to it, collect it and make sure it's in a powder. If you just want a "Bang" then simply use a plastic pill bottle and wrap it in a lot of paper tape, want it safer? then make your own paper canister. pack the powder into the container really tight. I mean REALLY tight. I would use a wooden dowel and a 5 pound sledge to tap it several times. I would then drill into the packed material and place a fast waterproof wick in it, top with cotton and cap it off.

Within 20 feet of detonation, 20 packs of sparklers will make a bang you can not hear. all you hear is Ba...Riiiiiiiiiiingggggggggg.... after you feel the shockwave impact blow you back. the ringing will not stop for about 30 minutes, shouting is the only way you can hear each other talk.

There is a ton more you can use around your home to make really nasty things.... a real "anarchist" learns mechanics, chemistry, and physics.... the Posers smoke pot and paint A's with circles on things.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199126)

I think it's the pipe bomb instructions that can backfire on people. There's many important little details to keep in mind. You know like, be sure to drill the hole THEN put the cap on. Ooops.

It's also easy to get some powder in the treads and make it pop while screwing it together.

I've seen plenty of guys with missing fingers just from setting off firecrackers, so how many idiots messed up trying to make their own pipe bombs for fun?

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199418)

If you need instructions on how to make a pipe bomb, you're too stupid to be doing it anyway.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199462)

Instant Darwin Award.

Re:Great Page Turner for Miscreants ! (1)

JiffyPop (318506) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199370)

Was that recipe the gasoline and styrofoam or gasoline and dish soap? I can see how not adding enough of the thickener to the gasoline could easily leave a lot of fumes hanging around. It was really fun watching the foam disappear into the puddle of gasoline. Only tried it once (probably 15 years ago...), but kept my eyebrows intact. There were plenty of miscreant how-to manuals in the late 90's. I had a lot of fun comparing all of the slightly different instructions on making nitroglycerin. I was (thankfully) never dumb enough to try synthesizing it...

A whole lot of redacted files. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198636)

So much for transparency.

Re:A whole lot of redacted files. (1)

evanism (600676) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198670)

Couldnt be hard to find. I had a copy as a kid off a BBS. Considering the ancient shit on my backup drive i would be surprised to find it still there!

The actual Author?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198688)

Page 33 of 171 from the .pdf;
    "William R. Powell, student at Windham College, Putney Vermont."
My ANARCHIST.TXT doesn't have an actual name in there for author...

Re:The actual Author?? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198754)

The published "Anarchist Cookbook" and the BBS TXT files are not the same.

Re:The actual Author?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198764)

And here I thought it was Bill Ayers all along.

analog scanner (2)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198702)

Of course by "scanned" you mean "photocopied" (and that photocopy later scanned).

Back in the day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198712)

Back in the day, like in 7th grade or something, a guy at my school took it with him to school because we were all very cool back then. Then they had a meeting with his parents, lol.

Re:Back in the day (2, Funny)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198804)

Back in the day, like in 7th grade or something, a guy at my school took it with him to school because we were all very cool back then. Then they had a meeting with his parents, lol.

Almost as cool as using "lol"?

I always enjoyed it. (1)

MooseDontBounce (989375) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198728)

It was a great read back in the days before the internet. About 10 years ago around the time my son turned 7 or 8 I got rid of my copy. I didn't want he finding it and trying some of the recipes and killing himself, his friends, us, etc..

Re:I always enjoyed it. (0, Flamebait)

psergiu (67614) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198848)

You just became "them". Please stop accessing slashdot.org - all the info that now matters to you is on the Fox channel.

Re:I always enjoyed it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198906)

Oh screw you. There's a big difference between keeping his kid from napalm recipes and scare stories about how the President is a Muslim that plans on handing us over to the Middle East or something. Slashdot- against all forms of information "censorship" no matter what the context.

Re:I always enjoyed it. (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199094)

May I be the first to just say - "Wooosh!'

Lame (1)

snookiex (1814614) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198748)

I wanted to learn how to make Napalm from human fat and all I find is a bunch of letters signed by Edgard Hoover :(

Re:Lame (4, Informative)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199054)

I wanted to learn how to make Napalm from human fat

Napalm is a mix of gasoline with soap. To make soap from human fat, get (by weight) 7 parts fat, 2 parts water, and 1 part sodium hydroxide. Mix thoroughly in a blender until it starts thickening. Pour in a mold and let stand for a few days. To make napalm, grind the soap and mix 2 parts gasoline with 1 part soap.

Re:Lame (1)

I8TheWorm (645702) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199168)

And for the sodium hydroxide, drip water through ashes (hardness of wood tends to determine hardness of the lye). Soap is pretty dadgum easy to make.

Re:Lame (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199310)

Tyler Durden [wikipedia.org] , is that you?

It was 'must have' for every BBS back in the 90's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198762)

It was 'must have' for every BBS back in the 90's
Remember different versions, editions. Most of them in txt format.

Are you sure it isn't OCRed at least a little? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198784)

Is it just me...I am able to select a lot of the text as if it has been through OCR. Is that a feature of acrobat reader?

Re:Are you sure it isn't OCRed at least a little? (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199036)

No, you're right...it's been OCRd. Adobe Reader doesn't have the ability to OCR, it can only read a file that's been run through and saved. The full version of Adobe Acrobat can OCR but it's not an automatic "feature" as you imply; you have to tell it to do so.

Re:Are you sure it isn't OCRed at least a little? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199136)

> Is that a feature of acrobat reader?

Nope, but the malware which uses it as an infection vector sometimes has that as a side effect.... ;-)

Well meaning.. but evil (5, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198806)

Disturbing to look at letter after letter to the FBI. All these well meaning people thinking that they're doing the right thing by reporting this work to the FBI, suggesting that the FBI stop it's publication. These people are a greater threat to freedom than anyone who has bought this book.

Re:Well meaning.. but evil (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198980)

I actually had the same thought.

Honestly it was a bit reassuring that they just seemed to be sending reply letter after reply letter along the lines of "the FBI doesn't control what books get published, here's some stuff to read"

Myself I don't see the big deal with the book.

You'd be a bit insane to try the "recipies" in it, for anything real what you want is a big fat chemistry book with the most boring title you can find.

Re:Well meaning.. but evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199030)

I agree. And I was reading through some of the letters and noticed a few things.

1)Take this quote:

I noted in the New York Times the U.S. had something like 3500 bombings.

3500 bombings when...in all of American history? Perhaps that figure may be true, but also pointless (we've also had a lot of people killed by British soldiers, but somehow I don't really think that's relevant today). But if this is meant to be per year or even per decade, I don't believe that figure is even remotely accurate.

2) Several of the writers expressed concerns along the lines of, if this book is allowed to be sold, prepare for all hell to break loose. Well, it's been 30 years now, and I don't think much hell has really broken loose due to this book.

*THE* R L Shackelford? (1)

sprag (38460) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198818)

Or should I say...

DALE GRIBBLE?

No, I shouldn't.

Re:*THE* R L Shackelford? (2)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198876)

Boy, I tell you what, man, you got that there dang ol' FBI hangin' around yer house, them black helicopters goin' chopchopchopchopchop all over the place, man.

Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (5, Interesting)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198852)

When my father found me reading a copy he took it and destroyed it, providing me w/ a copy of the TM 31-210 Improvised Munition Handbook instead:

http://www.libertylib.com/improvised-munitions-handbook/improvised-munitions-handbook.shtml [libertylib.com]

Which if nothing else should be mandatory reading for people who mistakenly believe gun control can be made to work --- I used to make black powder by collecting nitrates from underneath piles of cow manure in local fields, collecting charcoal when emptying the ashes from the fireplace and sulfur by purchasing sulfur candles from the local store (unfortunately there weren't any naturally occurring sulfur deposits w/in bicycling distance).

William

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198896)

Correect!
The book was only made dangerous by what it omitted, incomplete information in that book probably lost some people a few fingers

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1)

jovius (974690) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199042)

Quite typical is that people screw pipe bomb caps in without using any lubricant.

Anarchist Cookbook kind of literature could be used as a way to find out the crazies and have them blow themselves up.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1)

Sla$hPot (1189603) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199576)

Most of it didn't actually work. At least not for making fire crackers.
Vaseline isn't more dangerous than regular butter or parrafin.

>The book was only made dangerous by what it omitted, incomplete information
>in that book probably lost some people a few fingers

Burned fingers perhaps.
I think the greatest danger is that young teenager burns some nasty holes in the carpet or sets the curtains on fire.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199144)

Really? That's your argument against gun control? Really?

Gun control is not expecting 100% of guns off the street. Its supposed to control who gets guns, and what type. For those that want to make their own, there is a certain level of mental capacity required and persistence. These are not the types of people who regularly commit crimes with guns.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199164)

gun control is not meant to stop criminal masterminds and intelligent determined boy scouts. its meant to stop casual hotheads and insane people. if you stop people from getting guns easily someone like yourself and criminal geniuses will still have guns. nobody thinks making guns harder to get will stop someone like you

so who won't get guns? the kind of guy who shoots up a disco because a chick looked at him funny or the guy who shot the congresswoman in arizona. these people aren't fine thinking specimens: they get guns simply because they are easy to get. so make guns less easy to get, and insane people and casual hotheads won't get guns. that's it

you have to understand, they aren't trying that hard, at much of anything in life, and it is these sort of people that cause all of the tragedy with guns

i would be able to understand gun lovers a little better if they didn't freak out at the most sane obvious and prudent restrictions on guns

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199294)

So, if the Arizona shooter wouldn't have been able to purchase a gun legally, he would have stopped right there and not obtained one illegally?

Makes complete sense, since not being able to legally obtain a gun obviously stopped the Columbine shooters, right?

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1, Interesting)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199474)

japan and germany have tight gun control. yet japan and germany still have tragedies with guns

but guess what? A HECK OF A LOT LESS TRAGEDIES than the usa

that's the "makes complete sense" part you are missing. that's the whole point: less senseless deaths

but i can hear the gun lovers now: OMG YOU HATE FREEDOM YOU ARE FASCIST WHARRRRGARBBBBL

gee, maybe i just think the regular litany of pointless carnage in the usa is wrong? so guns should have sane controls on them? could that be my motivation?

pfffffft

it's like arguing with creationists about evolution when you talk about sober limitations on guns in the usa. gun onwership is not a topic you can have a sane conversation with some americans, its like a quasireligious principle to some people. pathetic

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199302)

Hot heads are and they will always be. You may stop the initial shooting, but then you've just set yourself up the bomb.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199520)

all your base are belong to hotheads?

in all seriousness, i have zero doubt that if you make guns hard to get, that knives, bombs, ice cream trucks mowing down kids in the park, etc.: mayhem will still continue. some people, when they commit to killing, they will kill. i don't in any way doubt that

my point is to simply stop the CASUAL killer. you know, the guy who just isn't thinking that much about it. he's got the gun in his waistband, the chick looked at him funny, obvious conclusion: shoot up the night club. such a person is not the kind of person who painstakingly make his own gun powder and watch police patrol patterns to set the bomb at the proper time. such a person, if a gun is too hard to get, they simply don't have a gun. they just aren't trying that hard

CASUAL killers. that's my target. get it?

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (5, Insightful)

Ben4jammin (1233084) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199456)

I think there are a couple of issues here. First of all, how are you going to define a "casual hothead" before the fact? Sure it easy to see after the fact, but how do you define it beforehand in a way that isn't also going to snare a lot of people that it shouldn't?

With someone who is insane, once they are diagnosed you have a paper trail. But what about before that? Exactly when are they insane? How can you tell before they act without also limiting the rights of everyone?

The NICS guidelines (http://crime.about.com/od/guns/a/handgun_check.htm) can help, but what about people that up to a point have been good citizens, but for whatever reason, go off?

And if you look at what has been going on in CA (http://www.redding.com/news/2009/oct/12/gov-signs-ammunition-sales-bill/) check this part out:

De Leon spokesman Dan Reeves has said the local laws have helped police track down 200 criminals who bought handgun ammunition. Some were drug dealers and many had large caches of illegal guns or explosives

So even with a BUNCH of laws, both state and federal, covering both guns AND ammo bad guys still get guns/ammo. Now true, they are referring to convicted felons, which is not what you were talking about. But none of those people were convicted felons the first time they committed a felony. Are you sure it is so easy to predict? At some point, if you aren't careful, the gun laws will just put law abiding citizens at a severe disadvantage without actually helping to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Where that point of diminished returns is, I don't know. But my point is that I think you are oversimplifying things a bit.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (3, Insightful)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199470)

I find it more sad that people think crime will be solved by removing the tools of that crime. After guns are removed and people start using knives they will be the first people to limit the size of knives people can buy. After that?

Crimes of passion may be prevented by minor gun control... but I'd venture to say that the recent publicized acts were all premeditated and legality of purchase would have had little (if no) affect on the outcome. This wasn't some guy that decided one morning to go out and "get him a human head."

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199566)

you do realize that countries with more stringent gun control like japan, germany, etc., still have gun crime, but a heck of a lot less gun crime than the pointless carnage and mayhem that defines the usa. kid of counteracts your central premise and supports mine, no?

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1)

grassy_knoll (412409) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199494)

Doesn't seem like gun control is crime control. For the nutjob who wants to kill people, not having a gun isn't a problem.

Example:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25026870/ [msn.com]

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199512)

it is easier to get an illegal gun. Especially if you live in a poor neighborhood. The gun control thinking is flawed. The casual hotheads will get the guns either way. The person at a disco would have got it from the local thug anyways. The guy who shot up the congresswoman did some research before hand. You take away guns and I promise you that deviant mind will come up with a different way to cause destruction. My bet is on roadside bombs or something worse.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (2)

the_raptor (652941) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199572)

Nuts can just get a knife* or a brick and still kill lots of people. In most mass shootings the availability of a gun doesn't increase the mortality rate because the killer is either incompetent with the weapon or not thinking clearly enough to kill efficiently. eg the Arizona shooter who didn't even kill his primary target.

The guy pissed off at his ex-girlfriend can still kill her with a knife. But if the woman had a gun she would have a far higher chance of winning the fight. And no the police won't protect someone in that situation. Here in Australia where you aren't allowed to have weapons for self-defence women in that situation have to hide in shelters because the police will do zero to actively protect them.

Epidemic violence is due to social conditions and a lack of social welfare, not the availability of weapons. Magic all the firearms out of America and the gang-bangers would just resort to stabbing each other.

* We semi-regularly get incidents of lone killers successfully murdering or severely injuring most of a family in a home invasion with no firearms involved.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199208)

Interesting site that starts out with the sentences "A sharp mind is your best weapon. Liberty References is here to help you keep that weapon sharp." just to go on a list a host of resources for making weapons and related stuff. So, if that's liberty, I don't want to know what the opposite of this so-called liberty is. It's one thing for a small boy to play around with gun powder (I did that, too, and more dangerous/exciting stuff), but for grown ups to promote building bombs or even chemical warfare truely shows that there are a lot of sick people around in this world.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (2)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199358)

Yeah, I should've poked around a bit for a better link:

http://cryptome.org/0001/tm-31-210.htm [cryptome.org]

William

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1, Insightful)

Angst Badger (8636) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199292)

Which if nothing else should be mandatory reading for people who mistakenly believe gun control can be made to work --- I used to make black powder by collecting nitrates from underneath piles of cow manure in local fields, collecting charcoal when emptying the ashes from the fireplace and sulfur by purchasing sulfur candles from the local store (unfortunately there weren't any naturally occurring sulfur deposits w/in bicycling distance).

I don't think anyone -- out of those who have thought about it, anyway -- think gun control can eliminate guns. The objective is to reduce the availability of guns to the vast majority of people who lack either the knowledge or the motivation to fabricate the components from scratch. In Japan, where private gun ownership is effectively illegal, the few guns in private hands are imported from relatively lawless regions like SE Asia and North America, not by Yakuza lackeys formulating black powder from cow manure.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (2)

bhlowe (1803290) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199336)

Dangerous indeed. The smoke bomb recipe instructs you to heat the concoction with low heat to melt it into a sticky caramel. Skip that step and its a great recipe-- do that step and watch your parent's house fill with smoke and nearly burn down.

Re:Dangerous book w/ incomplete instructions (1)

Sla$hPot (1189603) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199434)

Cool dad!
Leave mom in the kitchen while the guys blow up the garage.
Thats i what i call male bonding.

Congressional ignorance (4, Insightful)

Morris Thorpe (762715) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198860)

The letter from congressman George Mahon (D-TX) is disheartening.
He tells Hoover that "several of my constituents" have expressed alarm about the book. He then says he has not read the book but "the reviews have caused quite a bit of controversy." Finally, he asks for something to tell the constituents.
The process is totally hollow. And isn't that the way things continue to work40 years later? If anything, it's worse. Today's congressperson would scream louder and vilify the opposition (all while willingly ignorant about the issue at hand.)

Re:Congressional ignorance (1)

lowtekk (518270) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199266)

I have to concur with this thought. In writing to my senators and such over the years, I have noticed that they (or whichever staffer actually responds) have often not bothered to actually read the letter that I sent them, much less the actual legislation that I am writing about. They depend too much on someone else's opinion, expert or otherwise, to determine what their understanding of a particular matter will be.

Re:Congressional ignorance (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199510)

I always seem to get back the standard form letter describing their opinion on the situation even though I asked for elaboration on a particular point or provided historical evidence to the contrary.

Why so serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35198864)

Why are Americans so damn neurotic?!

Btw. the guy next to you looks a bit like a terrorist, don't you think? Maybe he's got a bomb on him.

HoneyPot (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35198946)

Don't download it...they'll grab your IP and add you to a database of possible miscreants. Buy Catcher in the Rye or Mein Kampf and you'll be swarmed by men in black within 30 sec.

Don't like (5, Funny)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199034)

I always found Anarchists a bit gamey, no matter how they're cooked.

"Not Always Complete" (4, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199058)

From the PDF under "enclosure" from someone reviewing the book:

"The formulas and procedures presented concerning the production of high and low explosives cannot be called incorrect but they are not always complete and therefore present a hazard to anyone using the information"

No kidding. Darwin Awards waiting to be handed out.

As a BBSer with my own copy back in the day, we didn't dare try any of that shit because it even looked like it was missing steps.

The Amateur Astronomer's Handbook has recipes for silvering mirrors, and there are warnings to not keep the mixture (sugar recipe) standing around too long because it creates silver fulminate. The complete lack of similar safety warnings in the Anarchists' Cookbook is a red flag not to try this stuff. Consult a real explosives manual instead.

--
BMO

Re:"Not Always Complete" (1)

NixieBunny (859050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199240)

The Anarchists Cookbook is a very provocative book on first sight, but the closer one looks, the more it is revealed to be a coffee-table ornament.

Re:"Not Always Complete" (0)

Angst Badger (8636) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199372)

As a BBSer with my own copy back in the day, we didn't dare try any of that shit because it even looked like it was missing steps. [...] Consult a real explosives manual instead.

Seriously. The paperwork to get an explosives license and be able to buy dynamite and other explosives legally is quite simple. What's difficult is demonstrating that you know what the hell you're doing and having the necessary setup to store them safely. Explosives are, by definition, unstable. That's a large part of what makes them explosives in the first place and why it took several centuries of experimentation to produce powerful explosives that were stable enough to handle if the people doing the handling knew what they were doing. Even then, the number of fatal accidents caused by explosives at construction sites and military installations is quite sobering.

The real catch is that producing explosives safely, at least in a developed country, is such an involved process that you can't avoid attracting the attention of the authorities, and doing it clandestinely is extremely dangerous even if you do know what you're doing. There's a reason clowns like Osama bin Laden sit safely in their hideouts while barely literate chumps make their bombs for them at a safe distance.

Nostalgia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35199134)

I still have a copy of this book somewhere in storage

dangerous threat to freedom? (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199172)

OH , I thought you were talking about this [scribd.com]
LOL, CIA

The Real Power behind The Anarchist Cookbook... (5, Interesting)

MaxNomad68 (1022851) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199268)

The true power of The Anarchist Cookbook has almost nothing to do with its contents. Matter of fact, if it were Mexican Cuisine, the Anarchist Cookbook would be day-old Taco Bell. The thing that William Powell (the original author) managed to do was accidentally come up with one of the underground's most powerful BRAND NAMES, one that could single-handedly ignite the imaginations of a typical teenager so much that it got out of his control. Once the publisher saw that it was such a money-maker, they refused to let it die. Eventually, the early crop of computer underground "anarchists" on the BBS scene took the book concept and created digital extensions of the information in the form of "G-Files" and early 8-bit graphics. By the time the Anarchist Cookbook made it to the Internet, it was no longer a book. It was a movement, one without direction or guidance or measurable intent, all loosely bound together by a set of files that had been slapped with the same Anarchist Cookbook brand name. Most of the people who downloaded the Cookbook, in whatever form, probably never tried much beyond a smoke bomb or two. The thrill was in the power of the potential of the information itself, even if it was incorrect. For the FBI to dedicate this much time studying it makes me sit back and scratch my head. Truth be told, the Central Library in any given city is far more dangerous... it just doesn't sound anywhere near as appealing to the typical kid.

got to love the FBI (1)

mindwhip (894744) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199412)

I love how they clearly breached copyright law on page 170 of the PDF and made a duplicate of the floppy disk before giving the original back...

Imaging a Disk (1)

AbrasiveCat (999190) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199414)

I have always though that "Imaging a Disk" was a little more complicated than putting it on a copier. No wonder the FBI isn't the lead agency for cyber security.

See something, say something BS (1)

whoda (569082) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199422)

The people writing to the head of the FBI to get the whole investigation started really surprised me.

Just imagine what all these 'concerned citizens' are reporting to the head of the FBI these days.

Purchase (1)

masterz (143854) | more than 3 years ago | (#35199444)

I purchased this book at Borders some years ago. I had to order it, as they didn't have it in stock. The first time the order came in, they gave me "The Anarch Cookbook" Turns out it's not the same thing. It's quite an amusing read. I'm not sure there's actually one piece of useful information in there.

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