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Iceland Eyes Liquid Magma As Energy Source

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the it's-a-little-warm-in-here dept.

Power 215

An anonymous reader writes "Scientists in Iceland have been studying and utilizing the power of geothermal wells for years. In 2009 one such study hit a standstill when a group ran into magma halfway into their dig. The roadblock has become a blessing in disguise, as recent research has shown that the magma can act as a potent new source of geothermal energy powerful enough to heat 25,000 to 30,000 homes."

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215 comments

SGU Icarus Planet (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260222)

Sci Fi comes true once again.

Re:SGU Icarus Planet (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260398)

Sci Fi comes true once again.

Actually the Icarus planet was filled with naquadria. However in SG:Atlantis they did blow up a planet from using too much geothermal.

Re:SGU Icarus Planet (1)

commodore6502 (1981532) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260768)

>>>the Icarus planet was filled with naquadria. However in SG:Atlantis they did blow up a planet from using too much geothermal.

I don't remember SGA's geothermal planet? It seems geothermal would COOL the planet into a cold rock like Pluto, rather than make it go boom. (shrug)

But I do remember is SGU's first episode where the Stargate pulled so much energy dialing across ~1000 galaxies that it went "boom". That's a hell of a distance. The closest galaxy is ~2 million lightyears, so hopping 1000 galaxies would be ~2000 million LYs. In Star Trek terms, at top warp speed, that's 2,000,000 years of travel time to reach SGU's current position. Damn. (The Ancients, being bright persons, did it in only one-one hundredth of the time.)

It's kinda sad that Reality imposes a 1 LY/year limit. Any intelligent race would be lucky just to reach the next star cluster - forget about visiting other galaxies.

Ya, it's hot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260250)

But it's a dry heat!!

No way! (1)

epp_b (944299) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260260)

You can convert heat into energy? Whodda thunk it?

Re:No way! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260292)

I thanked it years ago.

Re:No way! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260426)

You can't convert heat into energy. Heat is already energy!
You can only convert mass into energy.

Car analogy:
You can't convert an convertible car into an convertible car.
You can convert some sedans into convertibles.

Re:No way! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260848)

"You can't convert heat into energy. Heat is already energy!"

Also you can't convert motion into energy. Motion is already energy.
The same for motion into electricity, unpossible since both are already energy.
Possible conclusion: you can't convert heat into electricity.
But that doesn't sound quite right, does it?

Re:No way! (1)

Xacid (560407) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261088)

Ok, modify what the parent probably intended with "useful energy". A flowing river is in motion but isn't going to turn our tvs on. But convert that motion energy into electrical energy and then we can use it with our current infrastructure.

Re:No way! (2)

CapOblivious2010 (1731402) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261328)

But convert that motion energy into electrical energy and then we can use it with our current infrastructure.

Our "current" infrastructure? Hahahahaha

Re:No way! (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261456)

You can't convert heat into energy. Heat is already energy!

That's odd. I come to the opposite conclusion. Namely, that you can do the conversion precisely because it is trivial.

Also (2)

zoomshorts (137587) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260272)

Volcanic eruptions, why invite disaster?

Pffft.... (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260278)

This is old news ... didn't Prof. Farnsworth do this in Futurama, to bring back Fry's dog (i.e. use magma as a power source).

</troll>

Life Imitates Minecraft (1)

Alaren (682568) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260282)

Psh, I've been using buckets of lava to power my furnace [youtube.com] for months!

(Seriously, though, is this a "new source" of geothermal energy? Isn't it more like a "new approach to utilizing" geothermal energy?)

Re:Life Imitates Minecraft (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260600)

Psh, Dwarf Fortress has been powering the world with magma long before Minecraft appeared on the scene, grasshopper.

Re:Life Imitates Minecraft (2)

BotnetZombie (1174935) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261048)

Yes it's a new source. The old one is water extracted from geothermally active areas, although the water is very hot because of the magma being nearby.

What could possibly go wrong? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260288)

The extent which the human race extorts the earth sees no bounds!

Does any one else see why this might be an issue? We are on a living planet.

It seems all we want to do is extort whatever we can from it, what do we leave behind?

Get away from your computer and go for a walk in nature, if you can find any semblance of it in your area. It wont be there much longer..

Re:What could possibly go wrong? (3, Insightful)

werewolf1031 (869837) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260770)

We are on a living planet.

No, we're not. Stop it already with the "living planet" bullshit. The Earth is a geologically active lump of rock and metal, with a very thin layer of life on the crust. The planet itself is not alive in even the loosest scientific definition of "life".

Anthropomorphizing (5, Insightful)

zoomshorts (137587) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260960)

People who like to think they are 'green' , often try to imbue inanimate objects with living traits.
It is pretty sad they have no real concepts about the most basic issues. Sure, there are some
lifeforms on Earth, but that does not make the planet living, it is merely dynamic.

Re:Anthropomorphizing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261240)

Some loser retard just modded you down for this and I have no idea why because everything you're saying is true. I think there's some limp-wristed "green"s around with no fucking clue about reality whatsoever except that we should all protect the precious Earth Mother and hug a few trees and somehow expect to keep their Macbooks running and their slim Macchiatos coming on pure bad breath alone.

I'm all for getting the planet away from oil power but seriously, there's some fucking idiots around and it seems some of them were given mod points to burn.

Re:What could possibly go wrong? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261132)

seriously, "extorting"? are you on a troll here?

on the off-chance you're not, then

1) it's "exploting", retard
2) you're writing like some stinking retard of a moronic hippy
3) if you feel like this, fuck off from civilisation and live in a cave eating the fungi that grow on the walls because everything mankind has ever done, to put us in the position we're in, able to pontificate about the human race "extorting" the earth like some stinking retard of a moronic hippy on slashdot, has come from exploiting the earth's resources

needed to head off next supervolcano? (4, Interesting)

bzipitidoo (647217) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260296)

There are a few supervolcanoes around the world. Yellowstone has been going off about every 3/4 million years for around 20 milllion years, and it's due. Toba nearly wiped out humanity 75000 years ago. Can we do anything about it? Defuse them by sucking all the power out of them with geothermal energy extraction?

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260322)

$deepwater_horizonr=~s/oil/magma/g;

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260332)

Well, if you consider that the Pacific Ocean is unable to cool down Hawai and that isn't even a super volcano.

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260672)

Exactly! The amount of energy we would have to extract would have to be ENORMOUS! All of humanities energy usage since the dawn of civilization would be insignificant in comparison. At the same time, there might be a lot of energy that can be extracted from Yellowstone but we would have to be careful.

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260370)

There are a few supervolcanoes around the world. Yellowstone has been going off about every 3/4 million years for around 20 milllion years, and it's due. Toba nearly wiped out humanity 75000 years ago. Can we do anything about it? Defuse them by sucking all the power out of them with geothermal energy extraction?

No. Luckily, we can't. Also worth noting that tidal power plants won't eliminate tsunamis, wind power won't prevent hurricanes and solar power isn't going to reduce skin cancer. And more importantly, if any of those were likely to have such drastic effects then it would be a really really Bad Thing to Do.

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (3, Interesting)

onepoint (301486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260492)

I am no way near as smart as a volcanist ( sp?) but I would think that the concept would work as a power defuser ( as you mentioned ) but yet over time, you would create a champagne cork, it might pop when the earth choose to burp and there is not a flexible surface ( right now it's flexible but if you take the energy out of it, you would reduce it's flexibility.)

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260762)

I am no way near as smart as a volcanist ( sp?)

Vulcanologist.

Re:needed to head off next supervolcano? (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261208)

Defuse them by sucking all the power out of them with geothermal energy extraction?

To do that they would have to somehow actively make the magma release more heat than it naturally does and that really isn't feasible, if even possible. You'd just be spending more energy than you would be able to "extract." Besides, if it was possible to start really sucking so much heat from the Earth's crust as to completely suck a supervolcano out we'd be cooling the whole Earth eventually and that would rather obviously not be a good idea.

Stop cooling magma (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260312)

Please, stop cooling magma. No more viscous magna means no more earth magnetic field, hence no more magnetic shield, ie no more life.
Please, don't dig for geothermic energy. Leave alone our earth kernel.

Re:Stop cooling magma (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260358)

You must be retarded.

Re:Stop cooling magma (3, Insightful)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260364)

Ironically, the MOTD at the bottom of this page is currently:

"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." -- "Ali Baba Bunny" [1957, Chuck Jones]

Meanwhile, try this thought experiment: throw an ice cube into a swimming pool full of boiling oatmeal and see how much the melting ice cube affects the temperature of the oatmeal. Now scale that up by a factor of, say, ten million.

Re:Stop cooling magma (2)

peragrin (659227) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260520)

now drop ten thousand ice cubes into your pool and watch the temperature dip slightly.

Re:Stop cooling magma (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260736)

Is your pool the size of the Indian Ocean? If not you're still quite a few orders of magnitude low.

Re:Stop cooling magma (1)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260882)

...wait, and if the pool is the size of the Indian Ocean, a few thousand ice cubes will produce a noticeable temperature difference? You live in weird ways.

Re:Stop cooling magma (2)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261284)

i thought radioactive decay was the source of the heat in the earth core, so the pool analogy doesn't work unless you add a heater.

Re:Stop cooling magma (5, Informative)

InfiniteWisdom (530090) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260818)

Please, stop cooling magma. No more viscous magna means no more earth magnetic field, hence no more magnetic shield, ie no more life.
Please, don't dig for geothermic energy. Leave alone our earth kernel.

Now let's do some math.

Mass of the earth: 5.9*10^24 kg. Apart from a very thin shell on top, most of that is at a couple of thousand degrees kelvin.
Magma has a much higher specific heat, but let's be conservative and assume all of earth has the same specific heat as iron, or about 460 J/kg
Cooling the earth by a single degree will release about 2.75*10^27 joules

The total world energy consumption from all sources in 2008 was estimated [wikipedia.org] at 4.75*10^20 joules.

At that rate, cooling the interior of the earth by a single degree would power the entire world for 5,789,473 years.

And that's assuming the earth doesn't continue to generate heat from radioactive decay, tidal forces, friction etc.

Re:Stop cooling magma (1)

Lorien_the_first_one (1178397) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261110)

Uh, thanks for the lucid clarification. :) For a moment there, I was genuinely worried about geothermal energy wonks cooling the earth's core.

Re:Stop cooling magma (1)

InfiniteWisdom (530090) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261154)

Maybe you weren't (assuming you're the AC) but from looking at this thread lots of other people seem to think that's an actual concern.

Re:Stop cooling magma (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261368)

on top of the fact that magma close enough to the surface for us to meddle with is has basically left the core, and is no longer relevant to the magnetic field.

Re:Stop cooling magma (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261356)

Guddurn it! Keep that there pesky science out of this here argument!

The magma! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260320)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_in_the_World

Re:The magma! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261236)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_in_the_World

I hesitate clicking on this link, thinking it could be a picture of your mom.

Dwarf fortress (1)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260338)

Duh, someone's been playing Dwarf Fortress [bay12games.com] for too long on that small island. Well, I guess there's not much else to do in the wintertime (disclaimer: it's below -10C where i live now, so I'd better not pull their leg like this).

We're in a volcano (1)

cultiv8 (1660093) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260352)

(conversation between scientists in Iceland): You know, I've been a frickin' evil doctor for 30 frickin' years, OK? Cut me some frickin' slack. You forget, we're in a volcano. We're surrounded by liquid hot magma.

Cakes! (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260390)

That will allow them to bake a lot of pretty cakes!

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Earthquakes (2)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260446)

I guess Iceland's made its peace with geological instability (one would think you'd have to, by definition), but other geothermal efforts around the world are being halted or seriously delayed because of earthquakes they are believed to have caused:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/science/earth/11basel.html [nytimes.com]

Re:Earthquakes (1)

onepoint (301486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260512)

I don't recall exactly, but did not Isaac Asimov talk about heat sinks very near volcanoes as a power source for a planet in the foundation series ?

I am sure that Aurthur C. Clarke must have covered this topic at one point or another

Re:Earthquakes (1)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261264)

I believe the issue with those projects relates to deep bedrock fracturing rather than energy extraction itself. Small mini-eathquakes have also been known to occur near fracturing efforts in the name of natural gas extraction, though those are mostly shallow enough that I don't think they caused effects like the geothermal project in Basel.

Liquid magma? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260476)

As opposed to the solid or gaseous variety?

Today's headline is brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

Liquid magma? (5, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260504)

As opposed to what? Solid magma is more commonly called "rock".

Re:Liquid magma? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260550)

Gaseous magma.

Re:Liquid magma? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260652)

Plasgma.

Re:Liquid magma? (4, Informative)

gilbert644 (1515625) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260648)

Iceland already produces energy by pumping water into the ground and on to very hot but still solid magma to produce steam energy. So the distinction matter since the reaction is very volatile if the 'rock' is still liquid.

Re:Liquid magma? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260728)

Opposed to liquid water, liquid salt and liquid ethane.

Re:Liquid magma? (3, Informative)

DRJlaw (946416) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260796)

As opposed to what? Solid magma is more commonly called "rock".

magma
n pl -mas, -mata
1. (Physics / General Physics) a paste or suspension consisting of a finely divided solid dispersed in a liquid
2. (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) hot molten rock, usually formed in the earth's upper mantle, some of which finds its way into the crust and onto the earth's surface, where it solidifies to form igneous rock

Collins English Dictionary

A plastic or paste. And, of course, you knew that magma could have a range of viscosity from cumbly-looking rhyolite-forming magmas ( Vesuvius, Krakatoa, Mount St. Helens) to fountain-like basalt forming lavas (Hawaiian volcanoes).

Re:Liquid magma? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260836)

Q: How much magma comes out of a volcano?

A: None

Re:Liquid magma? (0)

werewolf1031 (869837) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260948)

Semantics. It's like arguing that no asteroid or meteor has ever struck the Earth because when an asteroid enters the Earth's atmosphere it becomes a meteor, and when the meteor reaches the ground it becomes a meteorite.

Re:Liquid magma? (0)

DRJlaw (946416) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261108)

Q: How much magma comes out of a volcano?

Pretty much the same as the quantity of lava that "comes out" of a volcano. If I have 5 km^3 of magma under a volcanic structure, and 1 km^3 of lava emerges from the volcanic structure, then assuming that volume is conserved for sake of simplicity, 1 km^3 of magma "came out." After all, only 4 km^3 would remain.

Of course, if we follow your implied definition, then no lava "comes out" of a volcano either. After all, there is no lava inside of the volcano, and your "gotcha" follow up factoid is thus equally flawed. Meanwhile, you risk being stoned by people who view speech and writing as communal forms of communication, rather than specialist-defined collections of absolute rules that must be followed without any deviation by the plebecite.

One Hot Pipe (1)

b4upoo (166390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260628)

The trick must be in keeping whatever gets close enough to the magma from melting. It will be quite a feat.

Re: One Hot Pipe (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260702)

I imagine that you would have two somewhat vexing problems: One, as you note, temperatures high enough to melt rocks are pretty hard on most machinery. Two, while extremely hot, magma has a distinctly finite amount of energy available. Once you get serious about extracting heat, it will cool and solidify. Once solidified, it will be a mediocre conductor of heat. Thus, unless you want to get only toy amounts of energy out of the system, you will need a fairly large surface area exposed to the magma.

Breakthough? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260694)

This was done in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri a decade ago. This isn't a breakthough, this is just "Thermal Boreholes" finally coming to fruition. Another concept inspired by computer games.

Energy consumption per home (1)

ItsJustAPseudonym (1259172) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260756)

The article says that the magma well could be used to produce 25 megawatts of power. My first (unconsidered) reaction was that more homes should be served by such a power system. Then I did the math, and I realized that 25,000 homes using 25 megawatts of power is just 1000 watts per home. That's less than the power consumed by a hair dryer. Plus, they're in Iceland, and they need to heat their homes. It's a pretty intimidating concept.

Re:Energy consumption per home (2)

JDevers (83155) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260856)

Home heating is supplied in the more traditional "really hot water" method...so electricity isn't needed for that. Still 1KW is NOT much power for a home unless there is a substantial reserve power system and the typical Iceland power user is somewhat miserly in the first place.

It's all lava (2, Informative)

currently_awake (1248758) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260778)

All geothermal energy comes from lava, it's just a matter of how directly you tap the heat. Heat engines run more efficiently with a higher heat difference, but they have to be designed/constructed to -use- that higher heat. If you cool the lava it will solidify into rock, and your expensive lava to electric generator stops working till you drill down to lava again. A lava generator is cheaper to build but has a shorter life span.

Alex Trebek said it best... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260802)

Are you Icelandic or retarded?

also (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35260804)

it can power forges and smelters. expect iceland's metal barrel production to increase exponentially.

Summary: (1)

jovius (974690) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260828)

There's some steamy hot action going in Iceland where Mother Earth shows her finest. The Icelanders sure know of f-loving, it's a two-way action on a bed of pure lava. Get your drills ready it's time to go supercritical with magma e-lectric!

Dwarf fortress? (1)

Octopuscabbage (1932234) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260952)

And then they will set up a masonry and make 50 beds. Then they will set up 100 stone fall traps around the entrance to their fortress. I don't know why they named it Iceland though, that has no anus in it.

Please check my logic (0)

ddt (14627) | more than 3 years ago | (#35260984)

Tapping geothermal energy cools the earth's center faster, which slows magma rotation, which reduces the strength of the magnetic field protecting us from cosmic radiation, does it not? I'm sure this wouldn't bite us for many years, but this seems like a bad direction, just as using fossil fuels was.

Re:Please check my logic (4, Insightful)

Arlet (29997) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261142)

The human harvesting of geothermal energy is totally insignificant compared to natural cooling over the entire surface of the earth.

Re:Please check my logic (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35261232)

Unless they're drilling a hole >3000km deep to tap into the iron-nickel liquid core of the Earth where the Earth's magnetic field is generated, the effect will be irrelevant. And that's leaving aside the fact that it's technically impossible to drill to such depths (the deepest wells barely exceed 10km). Besides, at most you're slightly accelerating the natural process of water circulating in the crust and the normal process of the Earth cooling -- at one teeny-tiny spot compared to, say, the entire mid-oceanic ridge system, which is naturally pumping water through the crust in the vicinity of magma chambers all the time and has been for eons.

Your logic is flawed because you have not considered scale. Total heat flux is estimated at 42TW [wikipedia.org], and there are ~40GW of geothermal heating and electricity generation. Even if we scaled up geothermal heating by a hundred times or more it wouldn't matter much. All we're doing is drawing the heat out a little faster in small areas, which wouldn't effect the Earth on a broad scale for many millions of years, if there was any effect at all. The Earth is big, and heat flow is remarkably slow within it (rocks are good thermal insulators). It's difficult to perturb heat flow except very locally by artificial means. And generally speaking the areas tapped for geothermal power already have elevated heat flows anyway.

You should worry more about wind turbines affecting weather patterns. At least that might have a plausible basis.

LTTH (4, Funny)

Pope Raymond Lama (57277) | more than 3 years ago | (#35261420)

Yes! Instead of lots of inneficient conversion methods, and n orer to overcome the last mile problem, this would finally allow the deployment of Lava To The Home technology, through some simple piping.

Besides heating, hot lava could be used in special taps to allow for inexpensive 3D printing, allowing everyone to produce their own custo made Rock Consumer Appliances.

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