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GeoHot Asks For Donations To Fight Sony

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the fight-the-power dept.

PlayStation (Games) 470

mede writes "In an interesting turn of events, Sony might have stumbled into a tough nut to crack. George Hotz (aka GeoHot) famous for his iPhone hacking achievements, is planning on fighting the big corporation on removing his free speech rights at utilizing his fully paid for hardware. Hotz has always claimed being anti-piracy (since iPhone activities) and says he has never pirated any game or even signed PSN agreements. He's asking for donations to fight Sony back and try to achieve something similar to what was previously accomplished by the EFF with regard to cellphones. I've already donated."

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$20 for the fighting spirit (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262194)

My small contribution to a great cause.

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (1)

klagermkii (791101) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262336)

.. and matched.

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262438)

..matched as well, this is an important fight!

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (2, Insightful)

tqk (413719) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262560)

... this is an important fight!

With respect, what's happening in Tunisia, Egypt, Iran, Libya, Bahrain, ...

Is important. This's just fun. Have some perspective. Carry on.

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (5, Insightful)

Phoshi (1857806) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262654)

This is important in a different way. Nobody's life is in the balance, but consumer freedoms are. Just because there are more important things in the world does not mean everything else is unimportant.

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (0)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262452)

How can I be sure this isn't some sort of trap setup by lawyers around the globe? :D

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (2)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262520)

Matching your donation

Re:$20 for the fighting spirit (1)

fimbulvetr (598306) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262602)

Matched, and the only sony device I have is an alarm clock!

Conspiracy theory (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262216)

This is just a media event for Geohot to launch his music career [youtube.com] . I bet he'll sign with Sony.

I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262232)

Paypal is NOT a good method to ask tech-savvy people to donate through
Paypal is nearly as hated as Sony.
Give me a postal address and I'll send you a couple of nice $20 bills

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262264)

PayPal is the only real option for people asking to RECEIVE money if they're not in the USA or the UK. Google Checkout is NOT available in any other country.

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262276)

PayPal is the only real option for people asking to RECEIVE money if they're not in the USA or the UK. Google Checkout is NOT available in any other country.

Are you kidding me??? EVERY country has this thing called CASH... thin pieces of paper (or plastic) that can fit in an easily mailable envelope. use it. Don't support scum like Paypal

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (2)

Goaway (82658) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262356)

Mailing cash around is orders of magnitude more work than sending money over the internet, and far less secure. Expecting people to do that for you is a recipe for disaster.

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262428)

Sending physical cash via snail-mail is the worst possible thing you could do.

Not to mention that banks require a fee much higher than the exchange rate to convert cash to your country's currency. Send 10 Canadian dollars to GeoHot (who lives in New Jersey [wikipedia.org] , according to Wikipedia) and his bank will most likely take 10 to 15% away from those 10 Canadian dollars (which are worth 10.1348 U.S. dollars according to Google).

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262758)

Sending physical cash via snail-mail is the worst possible thing you could do.

Not to mention that banks require a fee much higher than the exchange rate to convert cash to your country's currency. Send 10 Canadian dollars to GeoHot (who lives in New Jersey [wikipedia.org] , according to Wikipedia) and his bank will most likely take 10 to 15% away from those 10 Canadian dollars (which are worth 10.1348 U.S. dollars according to Google).

Fine, so I'll send $25 dollars and expect him to net $20
whatever
as long as I don't have to go through Paypal

why oh why do people insist on having only one way to donate and that way is a vile corrupt option

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (1)

228e2 (934443) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262728)

rofl @ mailing cash . . . .

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (3, Funny)

228e2 (934443) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262270)

I know a few Nigerian Princes that provide a more tech-savvy payment method.

Re:I'd love to donate, just not via Paypal (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262412)

Sony's dicked around a lot of people, but Paypal's done so much worse than Sony. Denial of numerous non-profits own money such as Wikileaks, obscene service charges, shady privacy policy...

What the hell do you have to do to be more hated than Sony around here?

Uhm no thanks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262294)

Isn't this kid's hack the reason every PS3 game is now rife with cheats?

No thanks, I'm rooting for Sony on this one.

Re:Uhm no thanks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262338)

Isn't this kid's hack the reason every PS3 game is now rife with cheats?

No thanks, I'm rooting for Sony on this one.

i'm with ^

Re:Uhm no thanks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262434)

I'm with.. stupid?

Re:Uhm no thanks (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262496)

Sony, much like Microsoft with the Xbox 360, now ban anyone found to be using a hacked PS3 from the Playstation Network. "O noes mah onlien gaeman is filled wit CHEETARZ" is a short-term problem that won't be around for too much longer. "Holy crap my right to free speech and my right to modify my own possessions have just been torpedoed in the legal system" is a much MUCH longer-term problem that would take a lot of money and time to reverse. For Sony to win this one would set a scary precedent. Imagine a world in which you can only install approved software on your PC; if you try to write your own applications or games and the manufacturer of your computer gets wind of it, your door gets kicked in by the police and everything gets confiscated.

Please kids, try to see the bigger picture before you post your ignorance for all the world to see. It'll save those grownups who feel compelled to do so the time of trying to explain it to you.

Also, $20 donated here. I'd be interested to see the stats in a few months; I hope he posts them.

Re:Uhm no thanks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262340)

Isn't this kid's hack the reason every PS3 game is now rife with cheats?

No thanks, I'm rooting for Sony on this one.

If you're referring to multiplayer, it's been done for years with a comparatively simple method: packet alteration. Run your internet connection through a proxy server that is configured with software to alter specific outbound packets. No console hacking needed.

Re:Uhm no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262534)

Yeah right. Who the hell would bother with that? I've never heard of anyone doing that with a PS3, if you're going to put the effort in to alter packets then you might as well just play a PC game with real cheats.

Also, if you're going to cheat, you may as well watch a movie, you fucking griefer assholes.

Re:Uhm no thanks (1)

kaptink (699820) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262344)

You wouldnt know HBGary by any chance?

Re:Uhm no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262354)

Uhm, yah...

So, gun manufacturers should be responsible for deaths caused by their products?!? Well, perhaps, but for frack's sake, you're livin' in Sparta you silly wabbit!

Personally, I'd like to see Linux back on the PS3 (gee, yes, some people really do have a use for that)...

Re:Uhm no thanks (1)

Ruke (857276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262394)

The reason that every PS3 game is rife with cheats is because those games were designed poorly. If the security were implemented server-side instead of client-side, no amount of console modding would make cheating possible.

Re:Uhm no thanks (0)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262648)

It's GeoHot's fault that their games are so insecure! Relying on someone or something else to secure your own game is completely intelligent!

Re:Uhm no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262782)

Having every check server side isn't feasible for a lot of games due to current hardware and network constraints. This is blatantly obvious to anyone that's worked on any non-trivial game...

Re:Uhm no thanks (5, Funny)

The Wild Norseman (1404891) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262418)

Isn't this kid's hack the reason every PS3 game is now rife with cheats?

No thanks, I'm rooting for Sony on this one.

I'm sure they'll return the favor...

A Small Price (4, Insightful)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262306)

My $50 is a small price to pay if it helps him win the case and set a precedent that leaves me free to discuss Sony's cryptographic failures.

Pulling out my hair. (4, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262310)

I am trying to weed out the fucking donation link amongst ~*8 links (and maybe ones i dont see) sprinkled and 'beautifully' embedded in the sentences as part of sentences in the summary and articles.

why are people doing this ? is it 'cool' when you embed the links with their link texts being parts of sentences ? what about usability, user friendliness ?

holy cow.

if someone can link the donation link in an non hipster, uncool, plain way, i will be grateful.

Re:Pulling out my hair. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262342)

if someone can link the donation link in an non hipster, uncool, plain way, i will be grateful.

How about this:
http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/02/legal-defense-fund.html

Re:Pulling out my hair. (5, Insightful)

klagermkii (791101) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262346)

Go to http://geohot.com/ [geohot.com] the link is on the front page.

Download Link on GeoHot's own site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262350)

Re:Pulling out my hair. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262382)

If that goes down in your book as hipster, you must be seeing hipsters everywhere, my friend.

Re:Pulling out my hair. (1)

Satis (769614) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262458)

In case it hasn't been done already, here's the direct link:

http://geohot.com/#2/19/2011 [geohot.com]

Big donate button at the top.

Donate button (1)

Infoport (935541) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262616)

The Donate button can be found on the top of GeoHot's webpage http://geohot.com [geohot.com]
and also at the top of his new blog http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com [blogspot.com]
(both linked in the article)

if you are feeling grateful now, donate to the legal defense

Re:Pulling out my hair. (5, Funny)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262800)

> what about usability, user friendliness ?

Look at the pot calling the kettle black!

I can't count how many times I've gotten excited by your signature, only to realize upon closer inspection that it says, "Giri" not "Girl".

$5 for sticking up for my rights (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262324)

$5 for sticking up for my rights. Wish I could do more.

English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262332)

" Hotz has always claimed being anti-piracy (since iPhone activities) and expresses has never pirated any game or even signed to PSN agreements.."

    What the fuck is this gibberish?

Re:English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?! (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262400)

Que?

The saga continues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262362)

Don't like PayPal, don't have much to donate but hope $5 helps. Tired of lame lawsuits over people tinkering with stuff they legally own. Hope you win, GeoHot. Sony: I'm almost considering buying a PS3 (and I don't even play video games) just because I wanna hack one up now. You should help people out instead of trying to beat your own user base to death with their own Sony (TM) devices.

Unsubsidized Consoles? (2)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262368)

I see this leading to unsubsidized consoles, while that would be good for the hacking/homebrew community i doubt the platforms would be anywhere near as ubiquitous if they charged the full cost + profit for the consoles.

So? (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262450)

Repeat after me: Not every business plan is viable or continues to be viable as times change.

The PC market does fine without subsidies, let console players pay the full price of their hardware so they stop saying how cheap their hardware is compared to a PC, while typing said message from a PC.

Re:So? (2)

aitikin (909209) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262538)

Repeat after me: Not every business plan is viable or continues to be viable as times change.

Are you a consultant? I work in an industry that needs this advice and Sony's a part of said industry. Maybe they're taking their philosophies from the music branch...

Re:So? (2)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262574)

Repeat after me: Not every business plan is viable or continues to be viable as times change.

Repeat after me?
In any case the business plan is clearly still viable, there isn't anything wrong with it at all. If they offered an unsubsidized version of the console for homebrew in addition to the current model that would be a good solution, though this would have to be separate from the gaming networks to avoid the sort of cheating that is so widespread in online PC games.

The PC market does fine without subsidies

Obviously, it's a different market.

Re:So? (3, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262646)

In any case the business plan is clearly still viable, there isn't anything wrong with it at all.

No, the business plan is not viable, it is propped up by laws like the DMCA.

Re:So? (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262716)

though this would have to be separate from the gaming networks to avoid the sort of cheating that is so widespread in online PC games.

It isn't widespread if the games are securely made and properly moderated. It's just that console developers expect the console to do everything for them. But, really, playing a game in a way that other people don't like is inherently bad in the first place.

Re:Unsubsidized Consoles? (5, Insightful)

Daneurysm (732825) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262514)

Nintendo doesn't seem to have any problems...

Sure. What is his bank account number? (1)

Kohath (38547) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262372)

Please use your free speech rights and leave it in the comments here. Thanks.

Re:Sure. What is his bank account number? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262524)

1,2,3,4,5

Re:Sure. What is his bank account number? (0, Redundant)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262586)

1,2,3,4,5? That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage! - President Skroob

Re:Sure. What is his bank account number? (1)

funkatron (912521) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262772)

5788769866732

Free Speech rights? (0)

microcars (708223) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262380)

since when did Sony become the Federal Government?
I see nothing in the linked article(s) about "free speech rights." What did I miss here?

Re:Free Speech rights? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262522)

since when did Sony become the Federal Government?

Perhaps when Sony's "GDP" surpassed the government's? j/k ;)

I see nothing in the linked article(s) about "free speech rights." What did I miss here?

Sony got a restraining order against Geohot, in an attempt to stop him from talking about how he did the hack. Sony also seized all his hardware. Tbh, this is more of a fight against anti-circumvention, which is an aspect of copyright (eh, what?) which contradicts hardware owners' rights to do with their physical property whatever they wish (e.g., jailbreak an iPhone or PS3 that they legally own).

Re:Free Speech rights? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262532)

because inherently you have the right to alter things you own....EXCEPT when that device is suddenly covered under the DMCA, and suddenly it's illegal to do something with your own device. The grounds on which he is being sued on are based on unjust laws. If the DMCA had been passed 100 years ago it would be illegal to work on your car, to renovate your home, or to alter your clothes.

Re:Free Speech rights? (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262584)

Sony's getting the government to restrict Hotz's speech.

Re:Free Speech rights? (2)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262588)

the court(Judicial Branch of government) banned him from talking about the entire subject in public.

Re:Free Speech rights? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262702)

I'd argue that the free speech angle follows the use of the DMCA by Sony to stifle GeoHots ability to speak freely about the hardware he bought.

Example: If I buy a PS3 and completely strip it down and take pictures, and in doing so purposfully void the warranty, I have the full right of free speech to post those pictures on the Internet. If I'm wrong, I would sure like to see the case law here...

I'm guess he's going to argue that the subsequent retraction of initial PS3 hardware capabilities by Sony, and the their aggressive use (my words) of the DMCA to stifle the production of his researched efforts on the PS3 constitute a stifling of his free speech that falls under 1st Amendment protection. Since he is neither charging for the information he's releasing, or actively selling it, willful patent infringement for monetary gain seems out the window.

That being said, since Corporations are now considered persons under current law, un-Constituted, I'm curious how they plan to retract ~information they've released (hardware & software for general consumption) unless they wish for that same information to have protection under 1st Amendment protections. Oh, right. How can hardware and software have 1st Amendment protection?

Comment to geohot (2, Insightful)

mede (115508) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262384)

I'm the one who submitted this story in trying to raise awareness and get you to raise funds from the slashdot community.. You deserve backup from many people to stand a good fight vs. sony..

Be careful, George.. You have a very strong opportunity to make a difference.. No one is saying you shouldn't benefit from it after it's over.. In fact, YOU SHOULD..

But take cautious steps in the middle.. You've appeared one time too many as being too media and attention centric.. Focus right now and enjoy the benefits later.. Listen to older people..

mede

Re:Comment to geohot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262432)

Is English your first language? I'm still trying to figure out what the hell you're saying in the original post. Did your ESL tutor help you with this one? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.

Re:Comment to geohot (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262444)

Again, don't understand. Why should this kid not be sued into long-term bankruptcy?

Re:Comment to geohot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262568)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WU1zd4CPT4Q/TWBKrBauwYI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/TCnKRY47vFc/s1600/boycottsony.png

Re:Comment to geohot (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262622)

White text on a black background will only do two things:
- stop people from reading your text
- stop people from printing your text to display somewhere

Reverse that image if you really care about it.

P.S.: good call on the PNG format, though. Too often do I see similar graphics saved in JPEG.

Re:Comment to geohot (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262688)

See this machine you're using right now? It's called a computer.
By Sony's logic, the manufacturer of your computer should have the right to tell you what programs you can install or not install on your computer. That is what is at stake in this lawsuit.

And that's why he should not be sued into bankruptcy.

Re:Comment to geohot (5, Informative)

mede (115508) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262500)

By the way, I can't believe slashdot changed the link to the source...

Don't go to techspot.

Go to geohot.com [geohot.com]

Sold at a loss... (-1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262448)

The PS3 and iPhone both contain more parts in cost than their retail price reflects. So, when something is sold at a loss you can expect there to be some form of vendor lock-in in order for the add-on products to make back the money lost.

If you want an open computer, buy the parts and build it yourself. You'll pay a whole lot more than $300 for it.

Re:Sold at a loss... (1)

cigawoot (1242378) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262490)

The recoup in costs for an iPhone is the 2 year agreement you must sign in order to get the phone.

Re:Sold at a loss... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262564)

I'm not sure that's actually true of the iPhone - at least not if you pay the genuine price for it without contract. In the UK, an iPhone on its own costs about £600 I think. It's a fine piece of engineering but that more than covers the cost of the device. If you buy with a contract then you've signed up explicitly for a deal where you pay for the phone effectively in installments through your phone bills.

With a games console they've so far allowed people to "buy" it and then left any subsidy from subsequent purchases implicit. You've not signed a contract saying it's not yours until you play a certain amount back (or indefinitely). Maybe these developments will (should?) push manufacturers towards a model more like the mobile phones. They *can* control whether you can access their online multiplayer and online store, so if they want a guaranteed income and a subsidised console they could tie a cheap purchase price to subscription services.

The problem there is that it makes it easier for them to break games that people have purchased when they've had enough of supporting them (c.f. Halo 2), which is a bit unfortunate.

So? (4, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262572)

What is your point? That these companies have a business model that is based on not selling their products for a profit? That they want to use the force of law to force that business model to be profitable?

I feel absolutely no remorse for these companies.

Re:Sold at a loss... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262600)

I just built a quad core w/ 4GB Ram and a 1tb drive for 399 including a Win 7 Pro license for my mom, so no, you won't necessarily pay "a whole lot more than $300 for it".... It all depends on your needs though.

Re:Sold at a loss... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262628)

The PS3 and iPhone both contain more parts in cost than their retail price reflects.

If you seriously believe the iPhone's BOM is higher than the unsubsidized retail price I have a bridge to sell you. When you buy one via AT&T or Verizon, it's the carrier eating the cost to fool you into thinking you got a deal with your contract.

when something is sold at a loss you can expect there to be some form of vendor lock-in in order for the add-on products to make back the money lost.

Then why doesn't Apple disable the locks on devices bought without a contract?

If you want an open computer, buy the parts and build it yourself. You'll pay a whole lot more than $300 for it.

I paid $600 for my N900. This lock down has nothing to do with recouping costs.

Re:Sold at a loss... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262668)

To me, selling initial hardware at below cost and then locking the purchaser in to costly future payments doesn't seem a lot different from smack pushers offering the first hit free.

How this piss-poor business model manages to avoid existing anti-dumping laws is beyond me but when people like Sony start abusing the law to fit their broken model, something needs to be done.

Not Sold at a loss... (1)

aitikin (909209) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262684)

The iPhone A) does not cost less than the sum of its parts (see this story [computerworld.com] for the actual cost of parts of an iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4, both of which are higher than they are sold for) B) is sold on a two year contract to a consumer at a much lower cost than it would be without contract C) makes unknown amounts of money for Apple from AT&T and now Verizon.

The PS3 is NOT sold at a loss anymore and has not been for well over six months (see this story on /. [slashdot.org] no less). They were sold at a loss for a long time, and Sony is still probably trying to recoup their losses on that, but they get money off of every game sold as well.

Get your facts straight before you claim such things.

Linux Gaming Console. (2)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262792)

I built a Linux based gaming Console for $230. Your point is invalid.

Huh. (-1, Troll)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262470)

I didn't know leaking trade secrets, like say, a crypto key, was a free speech issue.

Good to know that all of my lawyer friends are completely wrong on this one and that Geohot has set me straight. Now I'm going to exercise my free speech rights and leak some trade secrets.

Re:Huh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262540)

It's hardly a trade secret when it's easily calculated from information that is distributed with the console.

Re:Huh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262544)

I agree. Microsoft should follow suit and ship a crypto key in its newest update that'll lock you out of Wikileaks, Slashdot, other news outlets to keep you from mirroring and further leaking trade secrets. Thank god we have corporations to tell us what we can and cannot expose ourselves to!

Re:Huh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262576)

Please read up on what a trade secret really is.

Even if the crypto key was a trade secret, reverse engineering it is legal even in the United States.

Re:Huh. (4, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262608)

You have a problem with him reverse engineering the inner workings of a device he legally purchased and then sharing that information publicly?

Re:Huh. (4, Informative)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262610)

The thing with trade secrets is that you're only bound by the NDA if you actually signed it.

If the company gives you the trade secret, without making you sign an NDA, but puts it inside a box, it's their fault if you open the box and get the trade secret, not yours.

Re:Huh. (2)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262626)

Funny, when last I checked, if you reverse engineer Coca Cola and discover their secret formula, you are allowed to disseminate that information. What makes a crypto key any different? Geohot did not break into any Sony offices to compute the key.

Re:Huh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262640)

Oh, so if I'm a reporter and I get a leaked screenshot or photos of your new gadget prototype, I don't have the right to publish it? They are trade secrets you know. Didn't know there was a type of person who held trade secrets above free speech. I'm continually proven wrong though.

Re:Huh. (4, Insightful)

faragon (789704) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262674)

What trade secret? Published keys were already "published" by Sony, because a defective security implementation. It is like writting a number in the box and forbidding you to tell it to others. Geohot just told others what was the keys for his console, and the fact that these keys were the same for all consoles is just Sony's fault. In my opinion Sony deserves this and much more, because of fuking their customers (I still hold PS3 firmware 3.15, for using Linux, but not being able to play new games, because the *requirement* of firmware update). By the way, I have no intention of buying anything produced by Sony, including their media brands (e.g. Columbia Pictures).

Re:Huh. (2)

funkatron (912521) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262712)

WTF is trade secrets? The man found out some interesting information and posted it. No harm done.

Re:Huh. (1)

porl (932021) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262764)

in this case, yeah, your lawyer friends would be wrong. maybe you should let them know that.

the right to tinker with my own private property (1)

virchull (963203) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262498)

Don't normally do this, but to preserve the right to tinker - of course I will contribute, and I did.

Re:the right to tinker with my own private propert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262554)

It may not be too late to get your money back. This has nothing to do with the right to tinker with your private property, quite obviously. Not sure how you could have gotten that idea other than listening to a bunch of silly rhetoric.

IF YOU CAN"T PAY THE FINE DONT DO THE CRIME !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262504)

The Guilty is not a place to throw one's money. Besides, I want to see you hang for your crimes. Sony is only trying to make our lives better, and to make a little money so it can make them better still. You seek to destroy this, and with it, what is MINE !! Die GeoHot Die !!

Not A Fan Of Either (0)

EXTomar (78739) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262598)

I'm not a fan of any of the console vendors but I'm really not a fan of Hotz. Trying to cloth his activities as free speech rights is always dubious but then asking for help is even more so. Its like modifying my car to the point it no longer street legal the going "Waaaa! they are after me! Donate money to me so I can stick it to them!" No thanks, you did this to yourself for fame so enjoy it. This isn't a free speech issue but a civil dispute where if I look into the motives of both I find them both repugnant.

In the end, I've determined both parties suck in this case and choose to side with neither.

Re:Not A Fan Of Either (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262660)

then you aren't seeing the bigger picture. This is about companies being able to sue anyone they want into silence, while that person didn't break the law at all.

Re:Not A Fan Of Either (5, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262694)

As it turns out, you can modify a car so that it is not street legal, and you can then send information on how you did that to other people. This is a free speech issue: Geohot did not break into Sony offices or commit any sort of industrial espionage in order to compute the signing key; his only apparent violation of the law was to post a copy of what he had computed on the web. When posting something you computed becomes illegal, then there is a serious free speech problem.

Re:Not A Fan Of Either (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262726)

I don't like the guy, either, but the thing he's fighting about should be properly explored in the courts.

Hotz is the good guy here (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262760)

What's wrong with Hotz's activities? Are you saying he should not be allowed to do whatever he wants with the hardware he owns? He purchased his PS3 fair and square, from a retail vendor. He never signed any contract with Sony (nor even agreed to any EULA or ToS or similar bullshit).

Sony is the villain in this picture, they distributed a malicious update that DISABLED the perfectly functional OtherOS feature in existing fat PS3 consoles. They advertised those PS3s for years as being able to support OtherOS *and* being able to connect to the PlayStation network. Then they took these actions which force each PS3 owner to choose either one or the other, rather than keep both like they were originally advertised. That's bait-and-switch. As the owner of a fat PS3, Hotz was totally justified in hacking the hardware to reenable functionality of his console that was maliciously disabled by Sony. Anything he learned during that process (including crypto keys, etc.) can be shared freely because he never agreed to an NDA with Sony.

All these companies that think its OK to sell a piece of hardware and then use the legal system to prevent the OWNERS of that hardware from doing whatever the fuck they want with it, need a fucking reality check. And if you feel bad for them losing money because Hotz has given everyone back the ability to run whatever software they want on their Sony-subsidized computing devices, well maybe Sony should not have based their business model on holding their customers hostage.

Donate please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262614)

I'm nigerian prince mustafa-el-sad, please give me your dollars.

Re:Donate please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35262692)

Sure, but do you accept checks?

$40 is not much... (1)

andydread (758754) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262706)

but i had $65 to spare and threw $25 to the EFF and $40 to George. Times like this its good to remember that it was the EFF that primary fought for the freedom to Jailbreak devices that WE own. And with all the successes they have been getting lately I encourage all on Slashdot to give what they can to support the EFF.

Sure, I'll help (5, Funny)

zill (1690130) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262718)

I heard Sony loses money for every PS3 sold, so I went ahead and brought one to help out the cause.

Donated. Can masses really go up against corps? (1)

ACNoMore (1642043) | more than 3 years ago | (#35262788)

I like the fighting spirit. But as small a community as we are, do you think we could go up against such a big corporation? More power to GeoHot. Aren't there any engineers in Sony who see how ridiculous this is? Can you please convince the execs to see how much more profitable it would be for Sony if there was more innovation on their platform?
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