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Wow, who wrote this summary? (5, Informative)

intellitech (1912116) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265948)

Could this cause another 'millennium Bug' fiasco?

Y2K was a much different situation [wikipedia.org] , one which had absolutely nothing to do with such concepts as "daylight savings," "summer time," and the like. Y2K was caused by silly computer abbreviation of dates, and while DST [wikipedia.org] can cause timekeeping bugs, it's unlikely to cause a worldwide meltdown.

I would also like to point out that these things are much more likely to break down the more frequently you change them..

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265982)

Maybe programmers in the UK are accustomed to assuming that localtime always equals UTC.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (1)

Tinctorius (1529849) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266028)

They shouldn't: UK has DST, UTC doesn't.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (1)

joe545 (871599) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266034)

That doesn't make any sense! In the summer the UK is on UTC+1.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266036)

We already have British Summer Time (GMT+1), so I'd hope not. All that this article is suggesting is making BST GMT+2.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (5, Funny)

Antony.S (813668) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266038)

I doubt it, since they would find themselves fired within 6 months.

BST (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266056)

Maybe programmers in the UK are accustomed to assuming that localtime always equals UTC.

You are ignorant because you have never heard of British Summer Time.

And the submitter is a stupid fuck, because it doesn't know about either BST or actually what the y2k issue was.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (1)

growse (928427) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266242)

Maybe idiots in the UK are accustomed to assuming that localtime always equals UTC.

FTFY.

Never touch a running system? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266078)

I would also like to point out that these things are much more likely to break down the more frequently you change them.

I think that sums it up best . . .

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (4, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266182)

I have yet to see one single study that finds economical benefits in using DST. Actually, in the programmers' world, we see a lot of systems costing more because of this : Because DST regulations change almost every year (and I am not talking about leap seconds) the only away to have an accurate local time on a device is to have either regular maintenance or to link the device on internet to receive updates (and add some work to ensure the security of this, which can cost a lot on critical systems). I wish politician computed this cost. They manages to make the simple task of telling the local time too hard for a computer to compute on its own. That is really an achievement on their part.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266310)

What are you on about?

In the UK the DST regulations have only been changed once since 1971, and that was only to bring the shifting in line with that in Europe.

As with most things, it's only America that messes around with it regularly.

Re:Wow, who wrote this summary? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266342)

I would also like to point out that these things are much more likely to break down the more frequently you change them..

The more often you change this stuff, the more likely you are to have a test suite that works. Lava flow [wikipedia.org] is the name of the antipattern you are trying to say you think you are experiencing. More change will break you out of the problem. Less change will only make it worse.

It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (2)

L473ncy (987793) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265966)

I predict lots of people showing up to work 2 hours late if they us their cellphones or iDevice as an alarm clock.

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266018)

And the extra sunlight fades my curtains faster...

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (4, Interesting)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266124)

I can predict a worse outcome for the economy than people simply not being at work early. We currently get 3 hours of overlap with the (east coast) americans in a work day – they don't really want to have meetings absolute first thing, and we don't really want to have one last thing... This would give us only 2 hours overlap and compound the cross-atlantic communication problem.

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266224)

True, but haven't you considered the value of being in the same time zone as our government? Forget tourism, prevention of accidents, energy savings and whatever else, because those are just side benefits, and quite tentative ones, too. The real benefit is that at long last we will be sharing Berlin Time with the rest of Europe. Like the French, we can finally enjoy the incalculable benefits of being in a timezone that bears no relationship to the actual hours of daylight.

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (1)

digitig (1056110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266326)

The real benefit is that at long last we will be sharing Berlin Time with the rest of Europe.

Except those other parts of Europe that are not on Berlin time.

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (1)

digitig (1056110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266318)

On the other hand, this change would start to give us a useful overlap with China. Maybe this reflects how the government sees the world economy shifting?

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (1)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266320)

Isn't that a passing problem?

This because it looks like the US is declining and China is rising.

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (1)

TheMidget (512188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266146)

I predict lots of people showing up to work 2 hours late if they us their cellphones or iDevice as an alarm clock.

Or four hours if they use an iPhone...

Re:It might cause an alarm clock fiasco (1)

sgbett (739519) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266304)

It's OK though, their excuse will be they have to spend 30% of their working day employed by apple ;)

BAU (3, Informative)

isorox (205688) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265980)

Could this cause another 'millennium Bug' fiasco?"

If it happened tomorrow? It would cause a few problems. If it happens in March? Probably enough time to fix it. If it happens in October or later, no problem. There's usually somewhere in the rest of the world changes their DST policies on a yearly basis -- I believe parts of the U.S. changed in the last year or two.

It's an OS patch which you wouldn't even notice, a new tzdata file or similar.

Re:BAU (5, Funny)

dkf (304284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266252)

There's usually somewhere in the rest of the world changes their DST policies on a yearly basis

That place usually seems to be somewhere in Argentina. For some reason, messing with exact timezone rules seems to be a national pastime there.

Re:BAU (3, Funny)

drunkahol (143049) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266298)

They're trying to creep closer to the Falkland Islands?

Cheers

D

Re:BAU (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266350)

Yes, lots of countries in "the rest of the world" do change DST policies yearly, some have been doing so for decades. I happen to live in one.

All Linux distros worth something have procedures in place to update timezone data. It used to be bad, but now that the Oz people and the assholes in the USA need it as well, suddenly they stopped pressuring against need for the locale updates for the stable branches. On non-shitty distros, these updates also take care of Java locales, etc.

Microsoft deploys the timezone updates through Windows Update. It is covered there, as well. The entire DST stuff in Windows is utterly broken due to their use of a master clock in local time (how idiotic is that! should have been fixed when XP was launched), and of a limited, braindamaged modeling of timezone data which cannot keep past records without restrictions. So, don't expect the system to get time conversion right for DST of a few years ago, it has to forget them.

As for a DST change that is different from 1:00, well, I am not sure about Windows and the BSDs, but this has been supported in glibc systems for a long time. There are places out there that need 00:30 or 01:30, but if microsoft got this wrong on windows, they might actually not be exercising their need.

As for most embedded crap, well, it never gets DST right anyway. Just set the clocks manually, or tell it to do its job in UTC in the first place.

Why no skipp falling back (2)

netsuhi.com (1867770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265986)

Why dont we just skipp falling back one autum instead of springing forward two hours in the spring. It would make more sense as it always makes me tired in the mornings when we change the clocke in the spring and two hours seams like a nightmare come Monday morning when the whols country has jetlag.

Re:Why no skipp falling back (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266276)

That's the plan for the winter, but they want the summer time to still be pushed further forward. So, we'll be in UTC+1 for the winter, UTC+2 for the summer, instead of UTC and UTC+1. This means more sunshine in the evening, when I'm awake, and less in the morning, when I'm asleep, so I'm in favour of it. We play ultimate frisbee from about 5:30 in the afternoon during the summer, but we have to stop as soon as the clocks change, because we've run out of daylight, even if it's not raining (improbable, but it does happen sometimes). The new clock settings will mean that we can keep playing until later.

I've been hoping that they'll do this for a while. Extra daylight in the morning is no use to anyone - people wake up and go to work, but they can use artificial light for that. Most people only use the extra light for things that they couldn't do in artificial light in the evenings.

I'm totally unconvinced by the Scottish argument that it will increase traffic accidents, for two reasons. The first is that it didn't the last time we tried this. The second is that the sun sets in the winter here before most people leave for work with the current system, so you're either going to be going to work in the dark or going home in the dark.

It's not just England... (4, Funny)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265992)

... it's the whole of the UK. Otherwise, you'd have to adjust your clocks when you drive from one country to another.

I wouldn't expect you Mexicans to know that though.

Re:It's not just England... (1)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266040)

US Government Wants to Spring Ahead Two Hours

"In Washington it has been proposed that the clocks move forward by 2 hours this summer to give us more daylight time in the day, and hopefully in turn stimulate the economy. My question is ..."

I don't read the summary as England-specific, just that the suggestion originated there (in gov?). No reason to get upset.

Re:It's not just England... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266096)

To be fair, the Scots are reportedly opposed to the proposals because of how dark it'll make their mornings...it does seem fairly England-led. (Some of England, at least - I'm not at all in favour.)

Re:It's not just England... (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266280)

I'm in Wales, and I'm in favour. I'd much rather have daylight in the early evening when I can go outside and use it than in the early morning.

It's only the South of England that wants it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266356)

The North of England, Scotland, bits of Wales and NI would be worse off with this in Winter, as we know from experience

meh (2)

LodCrappo (705968) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265994)

Probably not a big deal. Time just isn't that important. For instance the iPhones have screwed up simple time shifts multiple times, and noone seems that concerned about it.

Re:meh (1)

CarbonShell (1313583) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266114)

Being pragmatic here: why should we change the time?
Are our biological clocks more influenced by actual clocks or rather the day/night?

Summary: no need to crate a technological solution, just get up and go to work earlier!

Re:meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266216)

Being pragmatic here: why should we change the time?

So that it better matches our biological clocks.

Re:meh (1)

locofungus (179280) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266282)

Summary: no need to crate a technological solution, just get up and go to work earlier!

Why is it that the people who oppose the clocks changing always come up with this "solution".

If you don't like the clocks changing then just go to work an hour later in summer or earlier in winter.

Most of the rest of us have jobs that are tied to wall time. In fact that's WHY the clocks change so that everyone who needs to changes together.

I've worked with people who are able to and do work "dawn to dusk", "making up" their hours in summer but the vast majority of people can't do 9 to 3 in winter and then 7 to 5 in summer.

I'm all in favour of going to CET. That way I might get to see the Sun for three more months of the year.

Tim.

Re:meh (3, Interesting)

FTWinston (1332785) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266348)

Just, you know, some of us don't want to go to work in the dark. All the bloody time. I fail to see how moving to CET could possibly bring in extra billions to the economy. Dubious economics aside, however, what on Earth is wrong with living in a time zone that reflects your physical location on the globe? I mean, moving Grenwich off of Grenwich mean time permanently is enough of a misnomer to put me off the idea, but WHY would anyone want to mandate that we all get out of bed an hour earlier in the morning? I find the shift to/from BST bad enough as it is - if this became twice as large a shift, it'd be twice as bad, and if it were an "all year-round" change, most of Scotland would see no light til 11am in the winter. How that's a good idea I don't know... people seem to forget that the "extra" hour is just being stolen from the other end of the day!

Re:meh (1)

TheMidget (512188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266152)

For instance the iPhones have screwed up simple time shifts multiple times, and noone seems that concerned about it.

Indeed. People only seem to be concerned if a person of value is late...

Re:meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266296)

Probably not a big deal. Time just isn't that important. For instance the iPhones have screwed up simple time shifts multiple times, and noone seems that concerned about it.

smartphone for personal use != time-sensitive enterprise (or infrastructure) software.

*Ka-Ching* Mate! (3, Interesting)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 3 years ago | (#35265998)

I think the only economy this would stimulate would be the one involving IT Consultants.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Re:*Ka-Ching* Mate! (2)

NtwoO (517588) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266148)

That is indeed a possible reason for the change. Tinkering with time conversion algorithms were in the past also attributed to the economy stimulus it would give the IT sector. That being said, I've read some British press that they want to move to the CET, since that is their main trading zone. A switch which I think will not have the economic effect they might hope for. Countries trading with the UK know there is a time difference and make sure that they handle any issues within the time window. Switching it in bits and bobs, however, is like the joke about the country that decided to change the side the cars drive on. As an experiment they started by switching the trucks to the other side of the road...

Re:*Ka-Ching* Mate! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266306)

There's no need to tinker with time conversion algorithms. They're not introducing new time zones, they're just moving to the same time zone most of the rest of Europe uses. All that it needs is an update changing GB->GMT/BST to GB->CET/CEST. Any software that knows about time zones will already know about CET and CEST. The only programs that are likely to have a problem are ones that hard code the mapping from locales to time zones.

They keep talking about tourism when they mention stimulus, and I think that's more important than just giving us two hours more overlap with Europe (no one sane schedules a conference call in the first or last hour of the working day if they can possibly avoid it anyway). This gives an extra hour of sunlight in the evening, at the expense of an hour in the morning. This translates to an extra usable hour for doing things outside - more people do things after work than before.

Darker mornings (3, Insightful)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266000)

From TFA:

Putting the clocks forward by an hour to British Summer Time +1 (equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time +2) would mean lighter evenings in the summer months, but darker mornings.

Am I the only one who feels utterly miserable going to work in the pitch dark, where the first light of the day I see is the fluorescent tubes above my cubicle?

Re:Darker mornings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266086)

Quite a few people find it depressing leaving work several hours after the sun has gone down. Can't please everyone!

Re:Darker mornings (1)

tapanitarvainen (1155821) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266170)

Quite a few people find it depressing leaving work several hours after the sun has gone down. Can't please everyone!

Right. In winter, I go to work before sunrise and leave after sunset, which is pretty depressing. Then again, in summer I go to sleep before sunset and wake up after sunrise, which is pretty nice.

(I live in Finland, little over 62 degrees North. In mid-winter there's about 4 hours between sunrise and sunset; in midsummer, 20 hours. Here, shifting the clocks for daylight savings never made any real sense, except in synchronizing schedules with other countries. Today, it makes little sense anywhere, and it'd be best to drop the whole practice entirely ASAP.)

Re:Darker mornings (3, Interesting)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266094)

No, but it is nice to occasionally leave the office with some daylight, and so feel like there is some of the day left for yourself after work has taken its pound of flesh.

Re:Darker mornings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266126)

No but I imagine you also don't like going home in the dark.

Anyway, this story is stupid. Just change the time zone on your computer to Europe. That's all that's happening.

Lighter Later (1)

flurdy (301431) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266128)

This was suggested by the Lighter Later campaign [lighterlater.org] of last year. Basically by having brighter evenings the country saves a lot on electricity and heating etc.

While being on the same timezone as the rest of western europe would simplify business and tourism, the main benefits is for the population to enjoy their post work / school hours in a better, lighter way...

As for it being dark in the morning, I don't really care. My alarm clock wakes my body up but my mind is not working untill lunchtime anyway, when the caffeine really kicks in. In the summer it is light at 5am or earlier which makes no sense to the general population.

Re:Darker mornings (2)

ZombieWomble (893157) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266130)

Not at all. One of the issues with this change is it is largely driven by the English outlook - while it's understandable in terms of population distribution, it means that regions which are further north and west suffer quite seriously in terms of daylight hours. For example, sunrise in N. Ireland is typically about 40 to 45 minutes later than London in winter. If they go through with the most extreme change being discussed (that is, moving to match CET year-round) parts of N. Ireland and Scotland won't see sunrise until well after 9am in winter, which is going to be very unpleasant for a lot of people.

Re:Less prozac needed? (1)

flurdy (301431) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266312)

The current non adjusted BST time makes it unpleasent to leave work at 5pm in the dark for the larger population during the middle of winter.

An extra hour adjusted would eg change the sunset from 4pm to 5pm in the London area [timeanddate.com] on 1st of January.

After February or earlier than November would this extra hour mean a more "happy" population with that extra light for their own personal/family time? Would the NHS dispense less Prozac?

Re:Darker mornings (2)

semi-extrinsic (1997002) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266346)

Oh, suck it up. I live at 63N, and we're just now starting to get sunrise around the time we go to work. It's inconvenient, but not "very unpleasant", and if you don't like it just go live on a tropical island.

Re:Darker mornings (1)

McHenry Boatride (1661199) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266150)

Good Lord! What time do you go to work in the morning that an extra hour in the Summer would make it pitch dark?

Re:Darker mornings (1)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266158)

Am I the only one who feels utterly miserable going to work in the pitch dark, where the first light of the day I see is the fluorescent tubes above my cubicle?

I'm the opposite, as in I'd happily trade darker mornings for the opportunity to come home and be able to do more outdoors in the evening.

It just seems silly to me that it's dark by 4pm.

Re:Darker mornings (1)

FTWinston (1332785) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266360)

What's so bad about it being dark at night anyway?

Re:Darker mornings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266238)

Coming from the bar, it always is indeed...

Two? Just two?! (4, Funny)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266002)

If you think THAT will help the economy, we're gonna spring forward FIVE FUCKING HOURS [theonion.com] . Just think of the unwarranted extrapolations!

England != UK. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266004)

England != UK. Can you lot in the United States of Florida PLEASE try to learn this.

Re:England != UK. (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266164)

Given that the proposal only applies to England and the article actually discussees the government's issues with keeping the move unified across the UK, the summary is totally accurate.

Re:England != UK. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266248)

Where does it say it only applies to England? "Britain is set for longer and lighter summer evenings..."

England is in Great Britain.
Great Britain is in the UK.

The article, at most, implies it won't affect N. Ireland (also part of UK, but not GB) but will affect Scotland and Wales (which are both in GB but not in England).

Already mostly solved (2)

Virtucon (127420) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266026)

With the DST changes that Congress mandated a few years ago, I think most commercial and Open Source OS's could adapt to this change easily.
Since we're no longer bound by Railroad timetables, especially in the UK, the concept of standard time and the time zones truly becomes much more localized. What I fear is one day cities will adopt their own time zones rather than regionally. Wouldn't that be fun? It would be like George Carlin's gag.

"In Baltimore it's 6:42, time for the 11 o'clock report."

We tried something similar in the late 60's... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266030)

Between 27 October 1968 and 31 October 1971 we set our clocks to be GMT + 1 throughout the year. At first there was an increase in deaths in the morning, but there was also a marked decrease in deaths in the evening. It later turned out that the drink-driving laws were the major cause of the latter, and parliament decided to end the consistent GMT + 1 in a vote of 366 to 81.

The idea, while good, causes problems as well, and the way we are in the UK with relation to the rest of the EU, we'll possibly keep to BST/GMT as it is now rather than change it.

Even further ahead (1)

MyGirlFriendsBroken (599031) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266046)

I think the bigger impact for some people will be being even further ahead of the US in terms of timezone. At the moment 5 hours is okay, I work with people in the Middle East, Europe, UK and the east coast, from the UK and this is manageable at the moment. I don't start work until about 9 and then work till about 7 or 8 if needed. This gives me a good amount of overlap with everyone. If this goes ahead then I'm going to be have to work later into the evenings sometimes, just negating the increase in outside drinking time, and giving me less quality time with my wife who will be working normal UK hours.

Nice idea, but not something that is particularly convenient for myself

Re:Even further ahead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266176)

Your wife is leading the group that WANTS to change.

Not if the computer's Unix-ish (4, Informative)

Max Hyre (1974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266048)

Unix & friends use a file or set of files with daylight-saving time changes; it's updated everytime somebody changes things. In Debian, it's in the tzdata package, described thus:

This package contains data required for the implementation of standard local time for many representative locations around the globe. It is updated periodically to reflect changes made by political bodies to time zone boundaries, UTC offsets, and daylight-saving rules.

Every time (*ahem*) some gov't tweaks the rules, the new info is encoded, and the updated package is sent out. Note that the superseded info is retained, so that if you ask about a time in 1974 in New York City, it'll adjust correctly for the idiotic Nixonian ``let's all go to work in the dark'' time.

Debian's files live under /usr/share/zoneinfo, and amount to a bit over 6MB of data.

Oops---misparented (1)

Max Hyre (1974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266110)

The above comment should have been in reply to the first comment, asking about Y2K-like problems.

DST (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266070)

Is there even really a point to DST anymore? I just end up having my circadian rhythm thrown off for a while.

Not going to happen (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266074)

Man, this again? We get this from the english MPs every other week. This is the same ol' same ol' with a slight variation of +2 in the summer and +$unknown in the winter.
For the Nth time, this is not going to happen, the rest of the UK wont agree to it. Scotland is much further north than its mild weather would suggest, and when this was tried shortly after the second world war it was an unmitigated disaster. It was dark till lunchtime in the winter in the Shetland Isles, for little gain in the evening in the summer. And remember we almost have 24 hour daylight in Scotland in the summer, we dont need an extra hours daylight at 3am. And neither we, the Northern Irish, nor the Welsh care if it's dark in England 24 hours-a-day all year round ;-)
Every time the government changes and the Conservatives get in they start going on about this. The 'Tories' are an english party, and in England it gets dark at 10pm in the summer. Boo-hoo. It gets dark in Spain at 9pm in the summer, but they are out having beers till 3am. In England everyone is in their beds at 10pm, what do you want an extra hour of light for? Why do you want it to be light while you are asleep or in your house watching cricket and drinking warm beer or whatever it is you guys do? Especially if it's raining. I may be scottish but I've never seen so much rain as I have in Oxfordshire. No wonder you like your boats, you need them.
It's not your timezone you want to change, it's your culture. You want to enjoy your evenings more? Get out more, talk to people in bars without waiting for a formal introduction. It doesnt have to be light outside to have a good time.

Fecking sassenachs. The next time you bring this up we're cutting your power and water.

  I may be scottish and as such slighty biased

Not just you scots (3, Interesting)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266180)

Its not just you scots who don't want it, plenty of us english arn't too happy either!

I don't much care if its dark when I drive home from work , I'm already awake and have lots of coffee inside me. What I DONT want is it pitch black first thing in the morning when I'm half asleep trying to drive down dark roads with kids trying to get to school crossing said dark roads.

Why the fuck our politicians want this I have no idea. We're more north west than all of the rest of western europe bar ireland which means the time our sun rises and sets bares little resemblence to what happens in germany 500 miles east or france 200 miles south.

Also , can someone explain whats the point of a clock if it doesn't give at least a rough approximation of the real time?

Re:Not going to happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266194)

There's plenty of English people who think it's a dumb idea too. If they go ahead with it, I'll just leave my clocks set to GMT and insist people state times in GMT.

The switch to and from BST is already confusing enough -- my clocks handle it fine but my body doesn't and I never remember the switch over dates.

Re:Not going to happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266250)

I agree - definitely a bad idea. I much prefer to get my sunlight fix through the office windows as the good lord intended. Why would I want to spend an extra hour in the daylight in my garden when I get home? Madness!

Re:Not going to happen (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266328)

I know this might be a bit a radical - but you could always get your lazy arse out of bed earlier and so finish work earlier!

Yeah , I know , what a crazy idea!

Re:Not going to happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266354)

I'll try suggesting to my company that they change their working hours to accommodate that - thanks for the suggestion!

Re:Not going to happen (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266266)

And more to the point, the Tories are an anti-Europe party so why they want to be on the same time as a continent that is a) all east of us and b) they don't like anyway is a bit of a puzzle.

For me, the increased hour of difference with the USA will be hugely inconvenient while being on Central European time would bring me no benefit.

Re:Not going to happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266292)

You can have Tony Blair and Gordon Brown back as well

Its happened in other places. (1)

samson13 (1311981) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266090)

Australia stuffed around with daylight savings dates for the Olympics. Most distributions pushed updates with enough time that it wasn't a problem. I saw a few Windows servers that weren't patched miss the change. A few TV stations didn't make the update in time but that happens with DST normally. Some outlook calendar entries misbehaved.

Postgres is always unhappy with countries that stuff around with this since causes extra entries in the lookup table.

Mostly it works and mostly it doesn't matter and its fixed manually in a day or two when somebody notices.

Another hour offset sounds good... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266098)

Another hour offset sounds good--just let it be in the opposite direction.

1940 (3, Funny)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266102)

Ah, the UK, where reinventing the wheel is a daily occurrence!

However, given the British obsession with world war two, this may be an appropriate move - it will be like returning to 1940-1945, when they had "double summer time", mainly so people could work in their gardens, growing vegetables, after they got home from work. Somehow, i don't think this is what they'll be using the extra hour of evening daylight for this time round though - it will be simply an excuse to get more drunk in the evening (if that's possible).

Re:1940 (1)

igb (28052) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266120)

Double summer time was also experimented with in the early 1970s. Some of us are old enough to remember this.

Re:1940 (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266136)

I remember it. But i'm not sure you do! It was British Standard Time - 1 hour ahead of GMT all year round - which brought the UK in line with nearby European mainland countries.

Two hours? Boring! Try 2:37 (hours : minutes) (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266106)

That should totally screw people up and result in total confusion.

Re:Two hours? Boring! Try 2:37 (hours : minutes) (2)

Yaur (1069446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266246)

why stop there? why not get really outside the box and make it fully algorithmic instead of lookup table based.

Of course it will cause problems (2)

thogard (43403) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266116)

The Australian government likes to mess with the day light offset for sporting events and I think they gave everyone a whole 5 weeks advanced notice a few years back. You get to the point where you just tell computer clocks to keep a common offset and then go change it twice a year.

There are some master time zone files that can be found here:
ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/ [nih.gov]
On Unix like system you can run a command like # zic australasia (or whatever zone is messed up.. or just run them all).

Then things should work.
Here is a script I wrote up to test this sort of nonsense about half a decade ago....
http://www.abnormal.com/~thogard/timezone.shtml [abnormal.com]

Yawnnn.... (2)

ckeo (220727) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266122)

Why dont everyone just switch to metric time and get it over with :|

It's been done before (3, Informative)

Max Hyre (1974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266132)

During WW II, Britain adopted Double Summer Time [wikipedia.org] , skipping ahead two hours. It reverted to one hour after the war (modulo some funkiness a year or so later).

Screws up transatlantic business (5, Insightful)

mouthbeef (35097) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266154)

I'm a UK taxpayer and I conduct a lot of business with the US west coast. Presently, we're 8 hours apart for most of the year, and that means that I can *just barely* squeeze in a conference call with Californian colleagues (I'm co-owner of boingboing.net and all my partners are in LA and San Francisco) and still get out of the office in time to get my daughter from day-care and get home for dinner.

If the timezone difference goes to 9 hours, I'm buggered. The additional hour will have a direct, negative impact on my net income, as it will either require me to participate less in these transatlantic ventures (for example, it would probably mean no more freelance assignments for US editors, all of which generate UK taxes) or hire expensive babysitters to fetch the kid from day-care (something I also would rather not do for sentimental reasons having nothing to do with the economy).

Re:Screws up transatlantic business (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266268)

On the other hand for me, as a UK taxpayer working mainly with UK and european colleagues, it means more overlap time at work and I will get more daylight time to spend with my kids in the evening. So the economy and my kids will benefit, and there are more UK people in my situation than in yours.

As a side note, the US bandwagon is over, there's a bigger world out there, expand your horizons!

Re:Screws up transatlantic business (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266284)

If the timezone difference goes to 9 hours, I'm buggered. The additional hour will have a direct, negative impact on my net income, as it will either require me to participate less in these transatlantic ventures or hire expensive babysitters to fetch the kid from day-care.

...and your point is?

Pointless (1)

Grantbridge (1377621) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266160)

If you want to get an extra hour of daylight in the evening....get up earlier? Why does the government have to mandate a change, schools / jobs in England can just start 1 hour earlier if they want the sunlight, and the rest of the UK can carry on as before. Problem solved! With on demand TV, its not like the TV schedules matter any more...

Tsk, tsk. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266162)

It's DST hell -- just a little more sadistic.

The problem is not the computer, nor Y2K-like bugs, not ven the programmers as professionals... the problem are those obnoxious things we call "persons".

I, unfortunately, am one of those who suffer during DST. People use to say "you'll get used to it", but after some years through these hellish period, I can say I never get used at all. In fact, it just worsens to the day it ends (fortunately, yesterday we left DST to return to normal time -- after 1 night better slept I already feel amazingly better!).

I don't know how I can solve this. In the latter years I've been abandoning DST: I just wake up one hour later, which make a lot less productive and I get to leave work with sunlight still available -- which I don't care at all, since I'm a nighttime guy... "hello darkness, my old friend".

Just to say this is one of the biggest idiocies they can do to UK, but hey, who am I? Just a foreigner! What can I possibly know? Go on! Do it! Enjoy it!

Embedded Controls will have a problem with this (1)

ultrasound (472511) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266174)

It may not be a problem for high end hardware, but lower end embedded controls with real-time clocks often use hard coded DST algorithms. For example the EU has defined standard DST dates for years in advance, these change-over dates are often hard coded into low-end devices, but with a default +1 advance. This allows a simple hardcoded table to be added to the hardware without the need for any user configuration, other than setting the initial time and date. Short sighted perhaps, but the reality is that there are huge numbers of these types of devices already installed.

There are lots of embedded controls used for time scheduling control of HVAC, Lighting and other timed automatic controls with this level of technology. I can foresee huge problems with equipment needing to be replaced or firmware upgraded if this occurs, or the need for 6 monthly manual time changes.

Re:Embedded Controls will have a problem with this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266314)

I see a great opportunity to bring people better, smarter devices that match their preferences as if by magic!

Why stop at 2 hours? (4, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266206)

I mean if our politicians really don't see why clocks should tell a good approximation of the actual time why just 2 hours? Why not move them forward 12 hours and then it can be dark while we work but we'll have a nice bright nighttime for all those whingers to go out and have their cappucinos at 11pm or whatever the hell it is they want to do in the light late at night.

Sorry , but I don't see the point of daylight saving AT ALL. Contrary to what some morons seem to believe we (surprise!) don't get an extra hour of daylight. The real problem isn't the time, its the fact that the working day is spread unevenly around midday. If everyone started work at 8am and finished at 4pm then this wouldn't be an issue. If you really need the extra light in the evenings get up earlier - thats all you're doing anyway when the clocks go forward!

Trying to wake me up one hour earlier ... (2)

janwedekind (778872) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266220)

... will not make me trust the currency.

Welcome to CET (1)

morpheus42 (458186) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266226)

Welcome to CET

Doesn't give you more daylight (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266244)

You can do whatever you want with your clock, it will not make your day any longer. The length of the day is not affected at all by the setting of your clock.

There is always some device you can't update it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35266260)

The Australian government likes to keep meddling with timezones. There is always some device that you can't update automatically, manually or otherwise... If it isn't a thin client or a PDA of some variety that has no updates available from the manufacturer and no way to manually edit the TZ data it will be some obscure piece of hardware, or you find a Windows 2000 server that you have to manually update the tzdata. At least most of the changes we've had are just wait two weeks, it will fix itself... (till next year). Changing it to 2 hours means waiting 6 months before it rights itself - I mean the user will make you actually fix it by then! Poor bastards in the UK.

A little better for Bangalore (2)

mrthoughtful (466814) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266278)

The families of Indian call centre employees will be happier - it means that their sons and daughters will be one hour less from the rest of India. If the UK were to be so generous to go +5.30 onto Indian time, even better

CET (1)

exallon (1653007) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266308)

This would align the UK with the rest of Europe (CET). I guess that would be good for trading hours etc. Not loosing an hour flying one way to the UK etc. So I guess it would be a good thing during summer. Assuming the most important goal isn't to align with the US which is already kind of hard.

Not in England (1)

john.wingfield (212570) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266334)

"United Kingdom" (a country) "England" (a province)

Re: Not in England (1)

john.wingfield (212570) | more than 3 years ago | (#35266344)

"United Kingdom" (a country) "England" (a province)

Slashdot removed my less than/greater than sign...

"United Kingdom" (a country) is not equal to "England" (a province)

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