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Voice of America Site Forced Offline By 'Iranian Cyber Army'

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the those-are-not-scare-quotes dept.

Communications 93

angry tapir writes with this excerpt from TechWorld: "The pro-Iran hacktivist group that defaced the Baidu and Twitter Web sites a year ago has hit another target: the US Government's Voice of America news site. Voice of America was knocked offline temporarily after hackers were able to change the organization's DNS (Domain Name System) settings, redirecting Web traffic hitting Voice of America sites to another site controlled by the hackers."

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Iran is next (1, Insightful)

mug funky (910186) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287300)

nice one, Iran.

you guys are next in this revolution wave thing...

Re:Iran is next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287388)

Iran already has its revolution in 1979. They throwed out the US supported dictator and made a islamic republic out of it. This is what will happen to Egypt as well since the muslim brotherhood have been declared a legitimate political party for the following election. What you think happen when a Islamic party take power?

A lot of retard in Egypt have been quoted to say, "Democracy is not required, everything we need to do is writen in the Quran". It is far from over for the egyptian peoples

For this reason, i dont thing anything will happen in Iran unless due subversive foreign activity. A theocracy canot be overthrow for as long idiots believe that cult.

Re:Iran is next (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287434)

Iran already has its revolution in 1979.

So? Libya had one is 1969, that's how they got the current regime. There is no reason Iran can not have another one like Libya is doing.

Re:Iran is next (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287474)

The coup of 1969 in Libya was military and against the peoples. It was completly unlike what is happening now. The Iranian revolution of 1979 was a peoples revolte, much more similar to what happened in Egypt.

Re:Iran is next (2)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287544)

A lot can happen in 31 years, including an entirely new generation that is very pissed off.

Re:Iran is next (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287596)

The coup of 1969 in Libya was military and against the peoples. It was completly unlike what is happening now. The Iranian revolution of 1979 was a peoples revolte, much more similar to what happened in Egypt.

No, the 1969 revolution in Libya was against the monarchy.

You are also mistaken about Iran. Its 1979 revolution started as a people's revolution against the monarchy but it was hijacked by Islamic revolutionaries.

Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terror (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288368)

Yeah, like in Gaza, Afghanistan, and quite a few other places, it turned out that "pro-democracy" demonstrators are totally incapable of defending against violence. (and really, before that in Saudi Arabia, and many other countries, read up on exactly how many families were exterminated to put the house of Saud into power. Not that the other north african monarchies were subtle, but the history of the house of Saud really does challenge one's stomach more than "average")

All it takes is a "tiny minority" ready to kill like lunatics until they get their way.

If Egyptians aren't prepared to meet Hamas' violence with equally deadly force, including (perhaps especially) against women and children (because, sorry, Hamas ("the muslim brotherhood") uses them as weapons)

Of course, the fact that this sort of tactics are used has nothing to do with religion, espcially not with "that religion". No, it does not even have anything to do with the fact that the paedophile prophet used the same kinds of tactics, making them "holy". This guy is some serious peace of work. "Holy" Methods to spread the "holy" religion of islam used by the paedophile prophet included : war, slavery, kidnapping people into slavery, mass-rape, genocide, religious genocide, ethnic genocide, sexist genocide (killing all men and leaving the women and children of a tribe in the desert without protection), and of course ...

claiming the only thing people had against "his religion" was racism (often he was less than clear on whether it was "allah" or himself that was a god, you'd think this sort of thing, directly in a supposedly holy text, would make people think ...). Yes, really, this guy cried racism when muslims were refused access to a city where one muslim "went mad" (which obviously was revealed later to be at the direct orders of a certain paedophile prophet) and killed a dozen children. This guy did that in 700 AD, decrying the "racism" of the Jews. Works really well, apparently, in a society that panders to multiple religions, thinking it can accomodate any ideology, no matter how genocidal it is.

Of course, no society has ever survived 10% infiltration of mohamedans. Sometimes the musulmans won, sometimes the entire region was devastated, taking centuries to recover, but fortunately without muslims. Sometimes so many genocides were comitted that any trace of a recognizable culture was gone (ie : most of central and eastern Africa, Pakistan when it became muslim, even large regions of Europe sustained centuries of constant muslim attacks and infiltration ...)

But don't worry. After all, the only thing one could possibly hold against this ideology, or the paedophile prophet, is that "he's different". And of course, other religions killed too. The fact that the worst "other religion" maybe killed a million people in times, while the paedophile prophet's religion killed a billion ...

Also, of all religions, only one proudly boasts of the fact that it's founder killed tens of thousands of innocents ... guess which one. Of course, this cannot be taken to reflect badly on it, right ? Oh ...

Oh and the "holy" purpose of this religion ? Why, superiority, of course. Where have we heard that before ? Oh right ... [jewishvirtuallibrary.org]

Waiting for those "troll" mods. You know, once you exceed a certain level of uncomfortable facts in a post, you're pretty much bound to end up at -1.

Re:Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terr (2)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288858)

Repeatedly saying "Paedophile prophet" makes it look like you've got some kind of agenda.

Re:Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terr (1)

treeves (963993) | more than 3 years ago | (#35293022)

Saying "you've got some kind of agenda" makes it look like you think that having an agenda is bad.

Re:Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terr (0)

hjrnunes (1135957) | more than 3 years ago | (#35289240)

I'm replying so make sure no one reads your bullshit and thinks it's true.

First and foremost, you are not a troll. You are an asshole. And you think you're spilling out uncomfortable facts in your post?

That's what we hear everyday from neo-con, far-right extremists in America and Europe. The only uncomfortable fact in all of it, the only fact actually, is that it's all bullshit and FUD. You extrapolate and entire heterogenous group that extends from Morocco to Indonesia based on absolutely nothing. Pedophilism, racism, genocides... I'm actually used to see that... in Western or by Western civilizations.

Of course, no society has ever survived 10% infiltration of mohamedans. (...) Sometimes so many genocides were comitted that any trace of a recognizable culture was gone (ie : most of central and eastern Africa, Pakistan when it became muslim, even large regions of Europe sustained centuries of constant muslim attacks and infiltration ... )

Well, Muslims dominated my country, the whole peninsula where it's located in fact, for ~700 years. That didn't stop both we and the Spanish from still talking a Latin language. It didn't stop the Iberian Peninsula from becoming a stronghold for the Catholic church and Inquisition, from burning people in crosses and other atrocities. It didn't stop us from enslaving large numbers of Africans throughout the Discoveries age and beyond. In fact, one could say (and indeed it is said) that the Muslim occupation of Iberia started a local golden age, from which you can still see the mosques (now churches) in Cordoba and Toledo, or the magnificent Alhambra palace. But you can still see the Romanic churches in Braga (former Bracara Augusta) or Coimbra that date from before the occupation. So, no cultural erasing happened, no genocide happened.

The Moorish culture is part of our culture. It's part of us in our language, our architecture, our way of life. So fuck you and your bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. Crawl back into whatever fear-monger-and-xenophobe-harboring hole you crawled out of. You think the world is full of brainwashed morons like you? Think twice.

Also, you mention something about the Mufti meeting with Hitler... You want really uncomfortable facts? How about this: Hitler cutting deals with Zionists, offering free and safe passage to Palestine in exchange for commercial activities with Germany, among other things That's something you Muslim hate-spreaders never mention, perhaps don't even know, like the effective tools and sock-puppets you actually are.

Stop slandering people you know nothing about. Get a brain instead. And use it.

Re:Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terr (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35293688)

God bless you. A voice of truth and sanity.

Re:Iranians tried, and failed against islam's terr (1)

Alimony Pakhdan (1855364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35295576)

That "Golden Age" did have its moments but for those dhimi folks it was more like fools gold in the end.

Re:Iran is next (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287528)

For this reason, i dont thing anything will happen in Iran unless due subversive foreign activity. A theocracy canot be overthrow for as long idiots believe that cult.>

Arguably, subversive foreign activity(at least the sort that the CIA tends to favor) is actually a boon for theocrats and would-be theocrats. When it comes to foreign puppets, we have a hard-on for repressive right wingers that just won't quit. As long as they are tractable toward us, not commies, and keep the resources flowing, they can expect more or less free reign domestically. Rule by a repressive right wing government tends to, over time, erode the institutions(rule of law, votes that aren't farces, etc.) and demographics(a middle class, the educated, political activists) on which democratic governance largely depends. However, as a pragmatic move to avoid being assassinated or deposed for being infidel American puppets(which they are), they frequently end up coddling the worst sort of nutjobs, just so long as said nutjobs will politely ignore them in exchange for some cash and/or repression of women and booze and homosexuals and stuff(see also Saudi Arabia...)

The end result is a puppet tyrant with minimal local legitimacy(and generally a taste for corruption an cronyism) who has cleaned house of all "civil society" elements; but has been paying protection, in the form of assorted domestic policies, to the worst sort of religious fanatics. When our puppet's strings eventually tangle, there is no civil society up on which to build a non-authoritarian government, and secular authoritarianism is widely discredited as corrupt, feckless, and an imperialist tool. Boom. Theocratic totalitarianism it is!

Re:Iran is next (2)

avgjoe62 (558860) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288256)

Rule by a repressive right wing government tends to, over time, erode the institutions(rule of law, votes that aren't farces, etc.) and demographics(a middle class, the educated, political activists) on which democratic governance largely depends.

Somehow, that all sounds SO familiar...

Where is Anonymous when we need them? (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287428)

Anonymous? Where are you?

Re:Where is Anonymous when we need them? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287464)

They'll only do it for lulz.

Re:Where is Anonymous when we need them? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287612)

I'm right here.

Re:Where is Anonymous when we need them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288692)

Reporting for duty SIR.

Re:Where is Anonymous when we need them? (2)

tophermeyer (1573841) | more than 3 years ago | (#35289382)

Bravely defending liberty and lulz from the frontlines of Mom's basement.

But not for more than an hour on school nights.

Re:Where is Anonymous when we need them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35296224)

You called sir?

Re:Iran is next (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287444)

Iran has experience putting down riots and rebellions. Don't count your chickens just yet.

Re:Iran is next (2)

DesScorp (410532) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287494)

nice one, Iran.

you guys are next in this revolution wave thing...

Next? Nope. The Iranian people tried "next" in 2009. They didn't get "wave". They got "dead". The Iranian government... much like the Chinese government... proved that it's willing to go to pretty much any lengths to put down uprisings. It has a huge apparatus built for just such control, literally a religious army [wikipedia.org] separate from the "regular" army, well armed, trained, and equipped. And they're fanatically devoted to preserving the Islamic revolution. Think Waffen SS, only dedicated to helping protect the Islamic Republic while it awaits the coming of the 12th Imam.

No, I don't think we're going to see any Berlin Walls falling in Iran.

How is this a hack? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287306)

Changing DNS doesn't exactly seem like a hack. And it's not new. When will DNS registrars learn?

Breaking into domain name registration accounts and redirecting Web sites is a favorite tactic of the Cyber Army, and it has pulled off this attack numerous times in recent years. The group posted similar messages in the Twitter and Baidu incidents.

Here's what they have at the end of the article:

"It isn't a hack or a breach of Network Solutions services," he said. "The DNS was changed and we helped the customer reset it."

Fail Network Solutions. Fail.

Good! (1, Insightful)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287318)

US propaganda abroad -- subverting legitimate political movements to produce US puppets since WWII.

Re:Good! (0)

rajeevrk (1278022) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287334)

US propaganda abroad -- subverting legitimate political movements to produce US puppets since WWII.

Looks like the propaganda machine got a sore throat and lost it's voice... :)

Re:Good! (2)

lyinhart (1352173) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287380)

Funny. If anything, VoA has been criticized for not being American enough. The running gag is that throughout its existence, VoA hadn't even created an English language version of its broadcast. Just imagine if the BBC broadcasted programs in anything but English...

Re:Good! (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287550)

BBC was subjected to the same criticism. The difference is, UK no longer has imperial ambitions, and BBC ended up being superior to commercial services due to the massive whoredom of the latter far outweighing bureaucracy and bias of the former.

Re:Good! (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288194)

"UK no longer has imperial ambitions"

The first foreign dignitary to Mubarak-free Egypt -- the British Prime Minister, with a party of 8 defense-firm CEOs in tow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359316/Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-takes-arms-dealers-Egypt-promote-democracy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml [dailymail.co.uk]

Re:Good! (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288698)

At least now they jump into the country AFTER the leaders are gone.

uhh... (2, Insightful)

mevets (322601) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287574)

The BBC is a legitimate and well respected news organization. VoA is about as close to a news organization as that Fox News Parody with Chris Wallace.

Re:uhh... (1)

Eunuchswear (210685) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288842)

WTF? The BBC is a corrupt pusillanimous shade of its former self, destroyed by Tony Blair.

All that remains is the BBC in exile, aka Al-Jazeera.

Re:Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287636)

If anything, VoA has been criticized for not being American enough.

By who, aside from the US equivalents of France's Front National, or Britain's British National Party?

Just imagine if the BBC broadcasted programs in anything but English.

They do, all the time. (They did cut back recently due to budget cuts, but there's still a lot of foreign language broadcasts [bbc.co.uk] .)

Re:Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287892)

Oops, that link doesn't work, you've got to go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/languages/ [bbc.co.uk] and it cobbles the rest.

Re:Good! (5, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287776)

Funny. If anything, VoA has been criticized for not being American enough. The running gag is that throughout its existence, VoA hadn't even created an English language version of its broadcast.

That's because, as the GP accurately said, VoA is propaganda.
Even the US government considers it so and, as such, it is illegal to disseminate to a US audience.
Here's the relevant law: Smith-Mundt Act of 1946

There was an article in Foreign Policy magazine (a year or two ago) talking about how VoA turned down a US radio station that wanted to rebroadcast some of the VoA's foreign language programs.

I can't say for sure what, if any, law constricts the Dept of Defense, but they operate under the same "not for domestic consumption" policy.

Re:Good! (2)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287832)

oops: Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 [wikipedia.org]

The short version is that information and psychological operations directed at foreign audiences are illegal to disseminate within the United States.

Re:Good! (2)

bedouin (248624) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287808)

"Just imagine if the BBC broadcasted programs in anything but English..."

They do, it's called BBC Arabic, Farsi, etc.

Re:Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288440)

"Anything but" != "other than", you dumb camel-jockey.

Re:Good! (1)

treeves (963993) | more than 3 years ago | (#35293056)

Of course there have been English broadcasts on VOA. There certainly were back when I would occasionally listen to them on shortwave (late 70s early 80s). They also had "simplified English" broadcasts to help people learn English.

Re:Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287646)

US propaganda abroad -- subverting legitimate political movements to produce US puppets since WWII.

eff you and the effin camel you ride to the mosque. ESAD

Re:Good! (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287732)

"Legitimate" being largely a measure of one's own politics.

Re:Good! (1)

zeke2.0 (921786) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287836)

hacking VOA is like sending a DOS attack against their grandmothers.

Re:Good! (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287910)

"All VOA ever wanted to do is bake you an apple pie."

Re:Good! (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 3 years ago | (#35290782)

Are you kidding? I would much rather have my government further its interests using words to using bombs.

VOA used to be broadcast on radio... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287332)

It reached far and wide with audiences all over the world, and as far as I know the radio broadcast was never hacked.

Re:VOA used to be broadcast on radio... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287572)

Hacked? Not that I know about, but it was jammed all the time.

Re:VOA used to be broadcast on radio... (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288994)

the VOA should have stuck to shortwave radio, with troops on the ground in both Afghanistan and Iraq i am sure the VOA could flood Iran with lots of moderately powered stations on enough different frequencies at once that Iran could not possibly jam all of them

Well, you got to feel pity for them (5, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287336)

Here they are raging against the great satan intervening in Islamic countries all the time, to little effect and then voila, couple of weeks and their Muslim brothers put the entire region on fire and overthrow government after government. Some in Iran must be pissing their pants by now. The world is changing and so far NOT to the extreme. All those cries for democracy in Muslim nations, that just ain't right is it. No burning of US flags, no cries for battle against Zionists. Just cries for democracy. Crazy stuff AND it is working.

The changes of it all working out okay are... well lets face it, nobody knows what the fuck is going to happen, if you had created a scenario in which North Africa would be in one big movement to overthrow local leaders last year, people would have told you to stop being a hollywood fantast and get a grip on reality. Just look at the map, a ribbon of rebellion and the end is not in sight. If Libya also falls... well then even outrageous violence doesn't work anymore or for that matter giving at least some of the oil wealth to the general public (Gadafhi might (now) be completely insane, but he was not as corrupt as some of his counter parts and at least the west of the country generally benefitted a bit from the oil income)

So, lets give the Iran cyber army its last few twitches before this guy will be in front of the firing squad for his allegiance to a overthrown regime.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (2)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287390)

But here's the REAL irony of it all. American's (such as myself) will always espouse the great virtues of freedom and democracy. Going so far as to even overthrow a little known dictator in Iraq. But you want to know what started it's spread? Debt! Yup, that's right. Only when our financial system collapsed did it create a domino effect around the world. The nations hit the hardest are 3rd world nations and the Middle East. Only when the people have a fire lit under their ass (no jobs and lack food) will change happen. But when the world is doing good, no one wants to risk what they have even in the face of oppression.

And that's the irony. We don't want the world to become destabilized when we are not stable too. But that's the only time change will occur under those circumstances. Whether the change is for the better however...well that's the gamble you make. Or they make in this case.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (2)

TheEyes (1686556) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288116)

Debt was two years ago. This was famine; food prices have gone up by thirty percent in the past year [wsj.com] , due to several factors but most notably global warming causing higher instances of storms [globalissues.org] , leading to lower crop yields around the world.

Iran might go on about American President X being the some sort of demon, or President Y declaring war on them, but what they really needed to worry about was the third horseman...

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35301580)

Can you link to any documentation of global warming directly (or otherwise), affecting the current price of food, and causing the "famine" (citation needed)?

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (4, Informative)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287452)

So, lets give the Iran cyber army its last few twitches before this guy will be in front of the firing squad for his allegiance to a overthrown regime.

But this wont happen.

Iran will democatise in the next 5-10 years, due entirely to a large young population that Iran's theocratic government hasn't had to deal with for the last 20 years (most of Iran's youth was wiped out in the Iran-Iraq war) but it wont be a revolution.

Iran's government is perfectly designed to weather this kind of thing. First off, the Islamic council aren't dumb, not in the slightest. The protests in mid last year were met mainly with subterfuge and false flag operations (sound familiar). Secondly they've isolated the military and police in this. They use the Republican Guard which are primarily non-Iranian Arabs (Iran is mostly Persian in ethnicity) who are loyal to the government and not attached to the people. Thirdly the power structure is not centred around a single person (president mahmoud whatisname) he's just a puppet, a front man to keep the real rulers (Islamic Council) safe.

Actual change will take time, there is not enough pressure yet for the majority of Persians to feel the need for change. This pressure will build over time however if a violent revolution were to occur today, it would just cause most Persians to rally around the government for security, isolating the youth (making things worse). The Iranian government isn't a brutal dictator like Gadafi or an incompetent embezzling oaf like Mubarak. They are cold and calculating, much like the Soviets.

When Iran does finally democratise it will be very good for us, the western world for two reasons. 1. Persians have westernised quite easily, even in Iran today there is a growing middle class who like the same things we do (nice cars, houses, consumer electronics). 2. There are a metric crapload of Persians who left Iran after the Islamic revolution currently living in the US, Australia and Israel, mostly Baha'i, Zorrostrians and a few Jews. Compared to these religions the Persian Christians have been well treated but they were never a big group to begin with. Iran should be our biggest ally in the ME, but we screwed that one when we deposed the legitimately elected government and put that idiot Reza on the throne.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

Simploid (1649955) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287632)

"They use the Republican Guard which are primarily non-Iranian Arabs ...." I wonder where you got this from? There might be some Iranians who were living in say Iraq and then Saddam expelled them in the republican guard, but I would be surprised if even one non-Iranian, Arab or otherwise be in there. Let's put it this way, there is a higher chance of a Saudi non-American citizen to be the next US President than that!

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288960)

"They use the Republican Guard which are primarily non-Iranian Arabs ...."

Sorry, my Iranian friend calls them the Republican Guard, their Farsi name is the Basij.

Yes, because the government is devoutly shiite Muslim and Persians were very culturally diverse before 1980 and the Iran-Iraq war wiped out most of the youth the ranks of the Basij swell with non-Iranian Arabs most notably from Lebenon and Palestine, ironically two groups the Iranian govenment support and fund are Hezbollah and Hamas.

2+2 = ?

But in case that's not enough, give this a read [worldtribune.com] .

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287656)

"Republican guard"?

I guess they would be Arab since they would have been...you know...Iraqi 9and probably Sunni to boot).

And if you are discussing the _Revolutionary Guard_ then I would like a citation regarding there ethnic composition, given that one of Saddam's pretexts for starting the Iran-Iraq war was protecting the Arab minority in Khuzestan.

Figures your post got modded informative though....

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287858)

"They use the Republican Guard which are primarily non-Iranian Arabs"

I don't think this is exactly right. The Revolutionary Guard is ideologically tied to the government, is Persian, and has set it self up not unlike a mafia with ties to all kinds of business. Their main foot soldiers are the basiji, who are some combination of ultra-religious and/or undereducated thugs and other miscreants that are more interested in a days pay to bash someone's head in than any kind of heavy thoughts about what is right or wrong. And even that basiji cannot be totally trusted to kill their fellow citizens, so they ship in Arabs - Hezbollah via Syria to do dirty work as well.

Just one tiny problem (4, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288198)

Everything you said has been said before to explain why North African countries won't rebel. And then they did.

New game, new rules. Why do you think western leaders allowed themselves to be photographed hugging the Libyan leader whatever his name is (see comment below) and indeed the British PM is on a weapon selling trip while the weapons sold in the previous trip are busy killing civilians? A bit embarrassing?

You also seem to have forgotten the violent repression of the earlier uprising in Iran. These are not the actions of a government willing to change. Neither are there continued attempts at making nukes. It was Libya that stopped, not Iran.

Really, LOOK at what is happening. Something has changed. Even if Iran stays the same for now, the Middle East has changed. The power balance is gone. If Egypt and Tunesia truly become democratic they would side far closer to Turkey then dictatorships. That is going to leave the remaining dictatorships far more isolated. Rewatch the fall of the Soviet Union. Once dominoes start falling,it is hard to stop.

I think all bets are off and considering Iran's reaction so far, they think the same thing. Why else block access to these events if they are sure their own people will stand behind the government?

Re:Just one tiny problem (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288946)

Really, LOOK at what is happening.

Yes, military dictarorships with small middle classes (I.E. a lot of poor people) are falling.

Iran is none of those things. Iran is a theocratic state who's power-base is not in the nations military. Iran has a growing middle class.

Really LOOK at the nations this is happening to. Then really LOOK at Iran, not the western propaganda, the actual nation. They have little in common. For fecks sake, they are different races altogether.

Why else block access to these events if they are sure their own people will stand behind the government?

Uhhh, because they want to keep the religious ideologically pure.

If you bothered to take notice, Iran already had a large anti-government protest [wikipedia.org] , six months ago. This is primarily where I draw my conclusions from, unlike Gaddafi, unlike Mubarak, the Iranian government waited them out, and took out the leaders. They have the ability to do that precisely because they are not backed by the nations military.

If the protesters start using violence, what will happen? What happened in northern ireland when the IRA started bombing? the British gained support. What happened in Thailand when the red shirts bombed a train station? The government was hailed as both victorious and restrained when 42 of the protesters were killed, some by snipers before the actual push to dislodge them began. What happened in Russia with the Chechens, how do the Russian people feel?

Why is this so hard to understand, if a revolutionary starts to use violence to further their cause, they lose popularity as the people not directly involved in a revolution will look to a powerful force to protect them, that more often then not is a government.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288682)

Iran will democatise in the next 5-10 years, due entirely to a large young population

Young population? You must be kidding.

High schoolers and students are the first people used as foot soldiers for any anti-government actions, by all forces, internal and external for the country. They are great material for that use, too, as they easily accept the most idiotic "teachings" as long as they are not what the rest of the society supports.

This is why any self-respecting government is prepared to face those "protests" and "revolutions", and defeat them. One that don't, are already conquered by such "revolutions" directed from abroad or by local lunatics.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (3, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35289014)

High schoolers and students are the first people used as foot soldiers for any anti-government actions

1969 is calling, he wants you to know the government is bad man, also have you got any weed. A lot of popular, non violent revoltutions are lead by youth. This is also why the Iranian government is using Arabs (primarily from HAMAS and Hezbollah) as troops instead of Persians, a young Persian will think long and hard about firing on his own people, some of them his friends, a brainwashed Palestinian or Lebanese wont give it a second thought. Why do you think Gaddafi first bought in troops from Chad as opposed to ordering the Libyan army in?

The Iran-Iraq war of the 80's depleted Iran's youth. This is why their population is seriously skewed towards the younger ages, after the war everyone started having babies because there were no kids left. As a result the generation was somewhat spoiled (Persian parents normally spoil their kids, but this was extra). Also the memory of the Iran-Iraq war lingers in the minds of older Persians. Also, literacy is very high in Iran, I can also tell you've never met one, they are not the brainwashed automata you believe them to be, in actual fact young Persians are quite well educated.

But the whole reason why the Theocratic government will eventually fall is because the youth, which is now starting to enter adulthood wants change (war ended in 1988). They are the ones that protested in June 2010. The theocratic government is used to pandering to the needs of the older generations, the younger generations are finding themselves restricted and now that they are a rising force in Iran, they're pushing back. Iran has quite a few youth problems that they dont like advertised, in particular smuggling in of western culture (movies, music) and a rather nasty heroin problem (who do you think is buying all the poppies being grown in Afghanistan). Iran's response to this was to arrest users, shoot dealers and ignore the causes, obviously the problem remains.

This is why any self-respecting government is prepared to face those "protests" and "revolutions", and defeat them.

What do you think they did six months ago.

Also, you said "defeat" not wait them out like western governments but ironically that's exactly what they do, they wait out the protest or use false flag operations to make quashing them a popular move (just like western governments). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932010_Iranian_election_protests [wikipedia.org] Give that a quick read. They know how to deal with protests, as I said they are not stupid by any measure. Which is why they wont disappear overnight like Mubarak has and Gaddafi will.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

Troll-Under-D'Bridge (1782952) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288940)

Iran's government is perfectly designed to weather this kind of thing. First off, the Islamic council aren't dumb, not in the slightest. The protests in mid last year were met mainly with subterfuge and false flag operations (sound familiar). Secondly they've isolated the military and police in this. They use the Republican Guard which are primarily non-Iranian Arabs (Iran is mostly Persian in ethnicity) who are loyal to the government and not attached to the people. Thirdly the power structure is not centred around a single person (president mahmoud whatisname) he's just a puppet, a front man to keep the real rulers (Islamic Council) safe.

This reminds me of the political situation in China, where the president is the face of what is effectively a collective presidency, the politburo [wikipedia.org] of the Chinese Communist party.

The Iranian government isn't a brutal dictator like Gadafi or an incompetent embezzling oaf like Mubarak. They are cold and calculating, much like the Soviets.

The Soviets weren't as cold and calculating as the Chinese government is now. Or else how explain the monumental collapse of the Soviet Union after the Party decided to launch a coup d'etat [wikipedia.org] against itself in the early 1990's?

What China and Iran have in common is the realization that you can't have somebody sitting as president-for-life when you want the Party (or whatever you call the ruling class in Iran) to reign for eternity. Whether through rigged elections or party machinations, the titular change of leadership in the two countries fulfills the same function (for the general population) as general elections in the US or UK, and none of the possibility of electing narcissistic whackos. One downside to "free" elections is that a really determined media-savvy newcomer has a shot at leapfrogging to the top without getting vetted (or purged) at the lower levels of the party. Hitler, after all, was a democratically elected leader of pre-World War 2 Germany.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35289038)

Or else how explain the monumental collapse of the Soviet Union after the Party decided to launch a coup d'etat [wikipedia.org] against itself in the early 1990's?

They ran out of money in the 80's.

The fall of the Soviet Union, the coup d'etat, everything revolves around the fact the Soviets were broke. When they couldn't feed their people, what else could they do but reshuffle the government to avoid an all out revolution. All of the Soviets woes can be traced back to how Stalin acted after WW II, he poured money into the military when the west poured it all into rebuilding the economy, as a result the Soviet Union began a very slow decline as their population increased by their infrastructure lagged.

But I do agree that the Chinese are far better at controlling their own people then the Soviets ever were. They understand that bread and circuses are very important, thus put a very great importance on keeping the peasants fed, clothed and entertained (same method as any successful dictatorship).

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35292780)

First off, the Islamic council aren't dumb, not in the slightest

I'm sure not. People who believe only one book contains all the knowledge anyone could need are beyond dumb, there's no adjective to describe that level of stupidity.

The protests in mid last year were met mainly with subterfuge and false flag operations

Which year are you living in? FYI the big protests against the fraudulent elections in Iran happened in June 2009 and right now it's 2011.

This pressure will build over time however if a violent revolution were to occur today, it would just cause most Persians to rally around the government for security, isolating the youth

That was the theory that other rulers, like Mubarak, believed in. The fact is that, as revolutions go, no one can predict when they will succeed. There were rebellions in Eastern Europe in 1956 and 1968, without success, but in 1989 the Communist regimes fell. Right now, the situation in the Muslim countries feels more like 1989 than 1956, the first dominoes have fallen.

we screwed that one when we deposed the legitimately elected government and put that idiot Reza on the throne.

Oh, puleez, let Mossadegh rest in pieces... Every time the situation in Iran is mentioned someone brings this 1953 thing up. If the CIA were half as competent in throwing down governments as you believe, the Castros and Chavez would be long gone by now.

The simple fact is that the Mossadegh government was a total failure from the economy point of view and that was what brought him down. Perhaps it would take a little bit longer without the CIA and MI6 intervention, but his fate was sealed from the moment he nationalized the oil industry without checking if there were enough trained Iranian technicians to keep the oil industry running.

Besides, a fact that people fail to mention when they bring up the Mossadegh affair is that his predecessor was assassinated when he tried to bring democratic changes to Iran [wikipedia.org] . It's not as if Iran were a paradise of democracy before.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

catmistake (814204) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287536)

Democracy is just the beginning of the End, as Nietzsche might say... just look at what democracy did for Ancient Greece!! This decadent politic ruined civilization! At least Iran has some sand left to bury it's head in...

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287826)

Oh really? Democracy ruined civilization??? The same civilizations that have been harbors of theocracies, dynasties, monarchies, dictatorships, and anarchy for thousands of years in the past? This Nietzsche fellow is a fucking moron and has already established zero credibility with me.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35289774)

Quite literally, democracy left Ancient Greece, the cradle of civilization, in ruins. At least that is one view point. The loose affiliations and infighting left the city-states weak and ripe for Philip to take over. Another view might be that it was Alexander's unbridled imperialism that was their downfall, but this was after democracy had already failed.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#35289896)

just look at what democracy did for Ancient Greece!!

As opposed to other forms of government all of which of course were able to avoid being conquered by the Roman Empire except for democracies right?

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (2)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287556)

All those cries for democracy in Muslim nations, that just ain't right is it.

Islamic "democracy" just means you get to vote (once) for the Ayatollah of your choice.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288888)

The people of Turkey would beg to differ.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

seyyah (986027) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287604)

Gadafhi

I've seen:
Gadhafi
Gadaffi
Gaddafi
Ghadafi ... and more

Gadafhi is new to me though. Nice one!

PS I prefer Gadhafi

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

seyyah (986027) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287660)

Well, Qadhafi is more accurate, but whatever.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (2)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287924)

I just call him Gandalfi...

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287938)

The dude has even used different spelling in his own written material over the years so any semi-similar transliteration is ok as long as it's obvious which specimen of completely pure evil you are talking about. I mean it takes a really sick bastard to order the airforce to bomb and strafe a funeral!

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (1)

bedouin (248624) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287852)

Most anti-government sentiment in Iran is fueled by outside interests and overhyped by Western media. Iran is really one of the more progressive nations in the entire region.

Re:Well, you got to feel pity for them (2)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288464)

Iran is really one of the more progressive nations in the entire region.

And Grumpy is quite tall for a dwarf.

wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287366)

Who's Voice of America?

Re:wait... (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287426)

sound like a tea party thing.
very few people can be that arrogant

Re:wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287860)

Ya, because Air America is sooo not like that. What?? Why are you looking a me like that?

Re:wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287430)

I'm Voice of America!

Oh wait... that only works for Anonymous, huh?

Re:wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287712)

That and Spartacus, yeah.

This begs for comic/film reference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287496)

So where are the Eye, the Ear, the Nose, and the Fingers?

Re:This begs for comic/film reference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288100)

And Detroit is the Asshole of America, thus confirming that the country is bent over.

Re:This begs for comic/film reference... (1)

KillaBeave (1037250) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288932)

Makes sense given Florida's location ...

Re:wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288356)

Kanye West of course!

So they took down the website (1)

makubesu (1910402) | more than 3 years ago | (#35287782)

of a radio station? Sounds like an anonymous operation.

Irian Cyber Army (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35287816)

pwn3d by t3eh Zi0n1s+ 5+uxn3t....

Why is CND (China News Digest) off DNS now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35288504)

China News Digest is a website run by overseas Chinese scholars and students. Its domain suddenly become unresolved today. (Search for China News Digest on Google and you can find many hits, but none of them can be resolved in DNS at the moment.)

Is this an attempt by Chinese government to disrupt overseas Chinese language reporting on Arab uprising (as many people in China "scale the wall" and read news from these sites)?

Hmm... (1)

ZDRuX (1010435) | more than 3 years ago | (#35288646)

These could be false flag attacks.. either deliberate or not, we don't know. If we see more of these, the U.S. gov will finally have their excuse to shut down and control the internet.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35297482)

Big Wig at the secret HQ: This Internets business is out of control, we have to put a stop to it~!

redirecting Web traffic hitting Voice of America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35289652)

redirecting Web traffic hitting Voice of America sites to another site controlled by the hackers

there's nothing like unexpected visit to goatse or "1 man 1 jar" site

Slashdot = stupid liberals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35289978)

Whats with all the anti-American sentiment on this site? Have you never left your moms basement? You think these countries don't put out propaganda? Why does this site always come down against American ideals? There are a lot of naive stupid liberals on this site. I know I read it here that liberals are just smarter than anyone else. I find it harder and harder to come to this site.

Beating the drums for war with Iran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35290838)

1. Last Spring, Rose Gottemoeller, an assistant secretary of state and Washington's chief nuclear arms negotiator, asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel refused.

2. The United Nations passed a resolution calling on Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.

3. The IAEA asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.

4. Iran's formal notification to the IAEA of the planned construction of the backup fuel-rod facility underscores that Iran is playing by the rules of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which Iran has signed.

5. Iran allows IAEA inspections of all its facilities.

6. Contrary to face-saving claims, it appears that the US and Israel were both caught off guard by Iran's announcement. The reasoning is simple. Had the US or Israel announced the existence of he new facility before Iran's notified the IAEA, it would have put Iran on the defensive. As it is now, the US and Israel seem to be playing catch up, casting doubt on the veracity of Israel's claims to "know" that Iran is a nuclear threat.

7. The IAEA and all 16 United States Intelligence Agencies are unanimous in agreement that Iran is not building and does not possess nuclear weapons.

8. In 1986, Mordachai Vanunu blew the whistle and provided photographs showing Israel's clandestine nuclear weapons factory underneath the reactor at Dimona.

9. Israel made the same accusations against Iraq that it is making against Iran, leading up to Israel's bombing of the power station at Osirik. Following the invasion of 2003, international experts examined the ruins of the power station at Osirik and found no evidence of a clandestine weapons factory in the rubble.

10. The United Nations has just released the Goldstone Report, a scathing report which accuses Israel of 37 specific war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza earlier this year. Israel has denounced the report as "Anti-Semitic (even though Judge Goldstone is himself Jewish), and the United States will block the report from being referred to the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague, thereby making the US Government an accessory after-the-fact.

11. Recently revealed documents prove not only that Israel has nuclear weapos, but actually tried to sell some to Apartheid South Africa. Who else Israel approached to sell nuclear weapons remains an unasked question.

12. In 1965, Israel stole over 200-600 pounds of weapons-grade uranium from the United States.

13. Declassified documents from the former South African regime prove not only that
Israel has had nuclear weapons for decades, but has tried to sell them to other countries!

We all need to be Joe Wilson right now. We need to stand up and scream, "LIAR!" at every politician and every talking media moron that is pushing this war in Iran. And we need to keep dong it until they get the message that we will not be deceived any more.

Israel wants to send your kids off to die in Iran, and YOU are the only one that can stop the war.

Re:Beating the drums for war with Iran (1)

Alimony Pakhdan (1855364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35295644)

Pssst.... Stormfront is over there.

free with the compliments are we? (1)

Alimony Pakhdan (1855364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35295654)

The Iranian Cyber Army are "hackers"? How generous...
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