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Mac OS X 10.7 'Lion' Developer Preview Available

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the ok-I'm-a-little-envious-of-the-features dept.

Operating Systems 365

kwolf22 writes "Today Apple is offering a developer preview of Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) to registered Mac developers. In addition, the Lion product page has been updated with new details. Among the updates is this exciting bit of news: Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion." Adds reader Orome1: the new OS X "features Mission Control, a new view of everything running on your Mac; Launchpad, a new home for all your Mac apps; full screen apps that use the entire Mac display; and new Multi-Touch gestures. Lion also includes the Mac App Store, a place to discover, install and automatically update Mac apps."

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Good Luch! (2)

MacTechnic (40042) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303670)

Yes, You can download the Lion Developer Preview, but it requires the App Store App, and the process has been a little quirky. Good Luck!

Re:Good Luch! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35303792)

Yes, You can download the Lion Developer Preview, but it requires the App Store App, and the process has been a little quirky. Good Luck!

By asking nicely I was able to get the Preview without dealing with the App Store which was kinda convenient. Removed all the quirks for me. Lion isn't some gigantic change or anything but a lot of little things have been improved. Definitely recommended for OSX users.

Where the giraffes are, and the zebra... (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304640)

Yes, You can download the Lion Developer Preview, but it requires the App Store App, and the process has been a little quirky. Good Luck!

And you can only get it in Kenya

Re:Where the giraffes are, and the zebra... (2, Funny)

edremy (36408) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304914)

Yes, You can download the Lion Developer Preview, but it requires the App Store App, and the process has been a little quirky. Good Luck!

And you can only get it in Kenya

Well, at least our President can use it then.

Fireball! (2)

jimmerz28 (1928616) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303724)

Soon my Macbook Air is going to start casting spells and wanting to play D&D with me with all the "magic" it's going to allegedly have. New Prestige class?

Re:Fireball! (1)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303972)

LOOK
> You are in a Starbucks. Jimmerz28 eyes you suspiciously.
> jimmerz28's Macbook Air attacks you with a Venti Cappucino... HIT!
ATTACK MACBOOK AIR
> with what?
PUMPKIN SCONE
> You attack MACBOOK AIR with your PUMPKIN SCONE... HIT!
> MACBOOK AIR is dead!

Re:Fireball! (4, Funny)

loom_weaver (527816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304912)

> eq

You are using:
[1] <Light> a back-lit keyboard
[2] <Finger> a Ring bearing the Apple logo (hums)
[3] <Finger> a one-button mouse
[4] <Neck> a black turtleneck (glows) (hums)
[5] <Neck> a thick beard
[6] <Body> a black cashmere and silk sweater (glows)
[7] <Head> The Reality Distortion Field (invisible)
[8] <Legs> Levi 501s (hums)
[9] <Feet> A Pair of Comfy Sneakers
[10] <Hands> iPhone 4 (glows)
[11] <Arms> black sleeves (glows)
[12] <Shield> a 17" MacBook Pro (hums)
[13] <About> iPod shuffle (glows) (hums)
[14] <Waist> 1st generation iPad
[15] <Wrist> An iPod Nano (glows)
[16] <Wrist> An iPod Nano (glows)
[17] <Wielded> Shrink-wrapped Xcode (glows)
[18] <Held> An iPod touch (glows)

CHANGELOG (1)

snookiex (1814614) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303752)

I have to say this is the cutest changelog I ever seen. The wiki server keeps being one of my favorites.

Re:CHANGELOG (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304266)

I have to say this is the cutest changelog I ever seen. The wiki server keeps being one of my favorites.

So are you a woman or are you an Applefag? Your effeminate talk about the "cuteness" of the changelog plus your username of "snookiex" could go either way.

So which is it? Inquiring minds want to know! Woman, or limp-wristed "man"?

What is the point of OSX server? (3, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303808)

Without any server hardware to run it on, why is there even a server setup?

Honestly killing the Xserve and not letting OSX server be installed on another vendors server hardware is brain dead.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35303844)

My companies website is hosted on an iMac you insensitive clod!

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304068)

we're still using a Mac Plus with no hard drive. Each web page is on a separate floppy and we have interns swapping floppies for each page visit.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304676)

My companies website is hosted on an iMac you insensitive clod!

The Bondi Blue one?

You really should have held out for the Graphite model.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (4, Informative)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303868)

Plenty of web developers who use Macs. Plenty of people who want a server but don't require dedicated hardware like the Xserve. Besides, Apple still make servers — check out the Mac mini page.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0, Troll)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303906)

The mac mini is no server. It lacks even basic cheap server stuff, redundant PSUs, RAID array, etc.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304032)

While you're absolutely correct that the mac mini isn't typical "server grade" hardware, you're wrong about your greater point. The mac mini is just fine for many (most?) people. The default server install does come with 2 disks you can raid, and has a BTO option for an external RAID5 array.

At $600 buy 2 and still be cheaper than most "basic cheap server stuff."

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (-1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304082)

The folks buying two mac minis, instead of a real server are those who will not know the first thing about keeping backups, syncing the data between the two or doing failover.

It might be ok to keep some dvd rips on at your house, but using it for work is crazy talk.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (3, Insightful)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304402)

Why? Time Machine works well, and if the first Mac mini packs up, you and restore on install to the second one.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0, Troll)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304492)

And a single fire takes them both out, or one angry employee. If it is on live media, it ain't a backup it's a copy. If it is onsite, it ain't a backup it's a copy.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304842)

You can have more than one Time Machine drive, IIRC.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304436)

The folks buying two mac minis, instead of a real server are those who will not know the first thing about keeping backups, syncing the data between the two or doing failover.

It might be ok to keep some dvd rips on at your house, but using it for work is crazy talk.

You remind me of some former coworkers who thought keeping data on anything less than an IBM mainframe with Parallel Sysplex enabled should be considered negligent. There are cases where they are right. However, there are computer users who are not banks, and their inability to understand that some people had different needs than their pet use case made them a real pain to deal with.

Shorter answer: Don't assume you have the answer to everyone's problems. You don't even know what their problems are.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304586)

Those people do not need a server OS then either.

In some cases desktops can work for this purpose for some amount of time. In every case I have seen it resulted in lost data and much downtime. In the end the small businesses decided that it was worth it to either outsource or spend a couple grand on some decent hardware.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2)

bedouin (248624) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304692)

Dunno, many people seem to be collocating them [macminicolo.net] .

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

RetroRichie (259581) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304046)

Imagine a beowulf clust...

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304356)

You're talking about enterprise grade servers. Why on earth does a small office need redundant PSUs and RAID?

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304536)

The PSU they might be able to skimp on, not having RAID is insane. This means lose one hard drive and there goes your data. These folks will not have real backups.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304998)

How do you know they won't have real backups? Time Machine and Mobile Me are better solutions than RAID, according to your own criteria.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

drharris (1100127) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304626)

Don't assume just because the office is small that downtime due to hardware failures is any less devastating to their business. I've had more than one "small office" learn this lesson after I argued that they shouldn't skimp on the redundancy just because it's expensive.

"How much does is cost if your employees are sitting around doing nothing for 2 days waiting for parts to arrive to fix your mission-critical server?"

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304936)

Obviously, if your server is mission critical, a Mac mini isn't the best choice.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304660)

I hope you're joking.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35305066)

RAID array

You're fired.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

Sechr Nibw (1278786) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304222)

Also, you can get a Mac Pro with OS X Server on it. Which basically means they took the rails off the XServe, right?

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2)

adriccom (44869) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303880)

It runs on hypervisors like VMWare and Parallels which is great for development and testing and actually pretty popular for professional server deployments.

I'm snagging one to light up in VMWare Fusion, for instance.

hth,
adric

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303952)

It only works on vmware on a mac. It is not popular for any professional server deployment, no one will use it in the datacenter without real server class hardware.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304094)

I don't think many people were in the first place. If they were, the XServe wouldn't have been discontinued.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304126)

Because it was not cost competitive. Apple should have rebranded some HP server gear for it or something.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304728)

Yeah, but the EULA forbids running OS X Server in a VM.. at least at this point. It's been said they will be changing that since they plan on partnering with a company like Dell or HP for their servers as an XServe replacement

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (4, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35303896)

Home and small business users. You know, those that thought Jobs suggestion to run OS X Server on a Mac Pro or a Mini was just fine.

Apple has no real interest in the enterprise market.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304144)

And rightly so. Enterprise = high volumes, narrow margins as a result of an emphasis on (justifiably) low costs. Apple = wildly profitable doing the complete opposite. Why waste time trying to play both sides of the fence?

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (4, Interesting)

MyDixieWrecked (548719) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304566)

Apple has no real interest in the enterprise market.

And this is terrible news.

Content providers for apple MUST provide video files in Apple ProRes fileformat which is ONLY able to be encoded using apple's tools which only run in OSX. I don't know how apple expects large content producers to encode high-volumes of videos for them without the xserves. MacPros are not an option as they are not enterprise ready (single PSU, no management port, they're HUGE and must be de-"racked" in order to swap drives, etc). MacMinis are not suitable for this as they don't have enough CPU/RAM. The xserves weren't even that great, but they were the right form factor.

Apple's been seriously fucking up with regard to the enterprise lately. I've been running into issues with their commandline admin utilities --they don't give access to everything that you can do with the GUI. You can't configure which port to use for management from the CLI (the docs say you can, but it doesn't work), it renames your interface when you bond network interfaces by appending " Configuration" to the name, which doesn't happen in the gui... and now, 10.6.6 doesn't properly image using System Image Utility (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3665)

Now, they're bundling OSX Server into OSX Lion. Who knows whether they'll continue to support ALL of the non-home user features of server like OpenDirectory. WTF.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304806)

We knew that as soon as the Mac vs. PC ads (Aren't Mac's personal computes, too? Maybe they meant Windows... except they also meant any other OS period) went on, at length, about how "PC's did work stuff" or something in that vein.

I actually had more respect for Apple when they were still a dorky computer company; now they're really a consumer electronics company with a computer department along for the ride.

Seriously? (1)

name_already_taken (540581) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304026)

Without any server hardware to run it on, why is there even a server setup?

The Xserve was really not much more than a rackmount Mac Pro. OS X Server runs just fine on pretty much any Mac.

My office uses a Mac Mini Server as our main office server (our customer-facing services run on other machines). I bought a Mac Mini Server as soon as they came out and it's been running 24/7 ever since. Inexpensive, reliable and even uses less space and power than the machine it replaced.

Re:Seriously? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304062)

We define reliable very differently I guess.
It does not even have redundant PSUs, or a RAID array. Have fun with the downtime caused by something you could have avoided.

Re:Seriously? (2)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304124)

The basic servers offered by Dell for businesses of the size being discussed don't have redundant PSUs either. Frequently, they don't have RAID.

Re:Seriously? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304216)

Those are just glorified desktops, even real workstations have a RAID array and redundant PSUs. Even the desktops at my house have RAID arrays.

Re:Seriously? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304400)

LOL, someone apparently has never dealt with small business's.

Every machine I manage does not have a redundant PSU, and they are DELL's. They have RAID but only have 3 or 4 hard drives in each. They spent 1000$ on each one.

The only reason I didn't have them buy MacMini's is because they were likely to go walking at the data center since a mini weighs about 1KG and a Dell weighs about 10kg and can't be thrown into a backpack.

Now I'd very much like a 50,000$ Blade box, but guess what, they pull more power than standard 15A 120V circuits can handle.

Another reason why north america is ass backwards. Data centers designed only to work with desktop grade servers.

Re:Seriously? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304646)

You can put normal 2U servers on 15A 120V, no reason to use desktops based on your power requirements.

Re:Seriously? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304466)

Even the desktops at my house have RAID arrays.

And your toaster has dual PSU's and a UPS. Yeah, yeah, we all know about you, Mr. I-still-have-every-computer-I-ever-bought-still-running.

Your last date was, when?

Re:Seriously? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304924)

Nope, most of those machines are long gone, I only keep the interesting stuff.

I have a live in girlfriend, so the last date was maybe Saturday when we went out to dinner, bar, etc.

Re:Seriously? (0)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304488)

If your home desktop has RAID, you are probably a nerd incapable of thinking like a normal person ;)

Re:Seriously? (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304830)

If your home desktop has RAID, you are probably a nerd incapable of thinking like a normal person ;)

Either that, or you bought a consumer-grade machine that was (stupidly) pre-configured with a RAID. (Dell does this, don't they?)

Re:Seriously? (2)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304680)

I know that. They're not even terribly glorified desktops, usually - just a tower case and a copy of Windows SBS.

That does not mean that Dell has never sold a single one. Indeed, if Dell had never sold a single one I think we can safely assume the product line wouldn't exist.

Re:Seriously? (2)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304376)

You can have something reliable without having redundancy built in - redundancy is great, if you need the high availability, but it can get pretty expensive, and if the system isn't mission critical, why spend thousands of dollars on a big server that'll be overkill for your needs?

For low-intensity uses - home office / small office servers, home theaters, lightweight corporate intranet servers, development / test systems, etc., a Mini (or unix/win box with similar footprint) could be perfect for your needs as a server.

Re:Seriously? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304446)

Reliability without redundancy is just hope. No special Mac majic prevents hard drives from failing or the power company from killing your power supply.

Re:Seriously? (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304824)

Reliability without redundancy is just hope. No special Mac majic prevents hard drives from failing or the power company from killing your power supply.

If 4 hours of downtime every meantime between failures is OK for you, then running a server on a mini is OK for you. Otherwise you're just spouting marketing mumbojumbo. Timemachine backups are awesome (I would never suggest someone run anything without backups), and they are trivial, and well nigh bulletproof. So get a mini. Get an external for backup. Get an Drobo for backup or even for RAID if you want. Get over it. If you can't afford 4 hours of downtime, make sure you use the external raid for everything and have a spare mini stacked under the one you use.

If your business can afford to spend a few hours down - and there are plenty of businesses that can - then what's the big deal?

Re:Seriously? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35305018)

A Drobo? Are you fucking kidding?

They are slow, expensive, and poorly built. I say this as someone who got a test unit from CDW and nearly fell off his chair laughing after running bonnie++ on it.

Re:Seriously? (1)

Americano (920576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35305070)

Sure, there's no special magic that prevents things from failing. But component reliability metrics (MTBF, etc.) can certainly be used to judge the relative reliability and expected longevity of a piece of hardware. One Honda is more reliable than one Kia. Two Kias may be more reliable than one Honda, but they'll still probably cost more than the single Honda. Two Hondas would almost guarantee that you'll never be without a vehicle, but it'll also cost you a pretty penny - that peace of mind comes at a cost. If you live in a location where you can easily take a taxi, bus, or train, 2 cars would be wasteful overkill. If you live in the country and have no neighbors within 20 miles, maybe guaranteed transportation is a little more important to you.

As with most things, you weigh the risks against the savings - is it better to spend $15k on a big server with "redundant everything" or $1k on a small Mini server, knowing that if it breaks down, you might have some downtime? The answer is, "it depends."

If the system being offline for repairs doesn't incur massive costs, why spend a huge amount of extra money mitigating against an outage?

Americano is no expert & lies about his degree (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304738)

"Me: 1) Degree in Biotechnology and Computer Science. (Did your troll factory offer dual majors, or just the standard "how to be an obnoxious twat on the internet" syllabus?)" - by Americano (920576) on Friday February 18, @02:27PM (#35247076)

First of all, Kevin B. Pease = AMERICANO from Merrimack New Hampshire - kbpease@hotmail.com - YOU DID NOT GET A DOUBLE MAJOR!

http://www.linkedin.com/in/kbpease [linkedin.com]

PERTINENT EXCERPT:

Kevin Pease's Education
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
B.S., Biotechnology

1993 Ã" 1998

Minor: Computer Science

---

LMAO - it took you 6 YEARS to get a CSC MINOR? Rotflmao... and he LIES around here saying he has a CSC degree? What a scumbag!

Re:Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304396)

Disaster Recovery Plan for a Mac Mini Server Setup:
Buy two Mac Minis, and a *good* UPS.
Buy an external RAID drive (configure to fully redundant [RAID1?]).
Hook the 'live' one up to a Time Machine backup on an external RAID drive.
Do a periodic backup of the 'live' Mini, make a copy, store one on-site and one off-site.
Test the backup by restoring it on the spare Mini.

If/When the 'live' Mini dies, swap in the spare and restore it from the Time Machine RAID backup.
If/When the Time Machine RAID backup drive goes bad, plug a new one into the 'live' Mini and build a fresh.
If/When both the 'live' Mini *and* the Time Machine RAID backup drive die at the same time, swap in the spare Mini and restore it from the backups you stored off site.

No, it's not going to apply to every use-case, but it will nicely handle quite a few more than you realize. (You can set them up in farms, and keep a couple spare Minis for easy swap-in if hardware fails. (Why have a redundant PSU when you can drop in a replacement *SYSTEM* for less.)
If/When you lose the whole building to a catastrophic disaster, buy a new setup like above, restoring the 'live' mini from the most recent backup.

How's that? (Aside from still being cheaper, taking less space, and using less power than buying a single instance of 'real server hardware'.)
If you need a RAID array for your live data, hook one up to the Mini and handle it's backups just like you would with any other RAID array.

Re:Seriously? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304778)

It will also have more downtime that a real setup, which is fine for some folks.

The reality is that is a good plan that no small business will ever follow that plan. They will also complain about the downtime and never take the spare mac mini off site.

Re:Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304906)

We define reliable very differently I guess.
It does not even have redundant PSUs, or a RAID array. Have fun with the downtime caused by something you could have avoided.

Considering that MacCoLo has been running 'minis as servers for something over 5 years now, and with virtually zero hardware failures, I'm not so sure the 'mini needs a redundant PSU. If you actually design a GOOD SMPS, rather than the typical POS PSUs that inhabit most Wintel-type equipment, you will find that redundant power supplies are, well, redundant.

Think about it? How long has the power supply lasted in your home stereo, or TV, or Microwave, or DVD player, or... Why is that computer power supplies are ALLOWED to be the second single source of failure (I'm guessing Hard Drives still probably beat them) in PCs?

As for a HARDWARE RAID, no, the 'mini does not have one; but it does support software RAID (as do all OS X devices), and since it has two drives by default, you have only yourself to blame if you don't setup a RAID. As for hardware RAID, there are external RAID solutions, and with Firewire 800 and 1000-Base-T, there won't be data bottleneck problems with any external storage.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304076)

The server features made a lot of sense if you were selling to businesses that were big enough that they needed a whole lot of extra hardware in the form of servers.

But 90something% of businesses don't fall into that camp, and those that do probably don't want OS X Server. The server aspects are aimed squarely at the small business with a handful of staff, a slightly smaller handful of computers and neither money, time nor inclination to pay someone to set up SBS - but at the same time need something a bit more sophisticated than just the PCs on their desks.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (2, Insightful)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304574)

Honestly killing the Xserve and not letting OSX server be installed on another vendors server hardware is brain dead.

I'm certain your arm chair quarterbacking the largest computer company in the world, and the second largest US based corporation is beyond reproach, but it would be kind to the Apple stockholders (including me) if you'd share some of your data.

Name one advantage Apple gains by sharing their operating system. You want it, but you want the lower prices that multiple vendors imply and the exceptionally low volume enterprise level features that are missing. Let's say that adding redundant power supplies, hot swappable memory and all that jazz costs $50M in R&D. Can you state that they would recoup that investment in the first year? Could they command a $1k premium per box, and amortize it over 50k boxes they would not have otherwise shipped, and then ship another 30k boxes beyond that to count as margin? First, you're going to balk at paying three times as much for Apple hardware as you would for other brands', and the conversation goes down from there.

Features like Time Machine seem to scream for servers, but Apple's implementation is nowhere near what a 24/7 75% usage machine needs, or even what a real database needs under any but the most idle loads.

The kind of people who feel MacOSX is good for servers either need a low power Mini (where the hardware, OS and GUI shortfalls are easily overlooked) or a Mac Pro (for number crunching under familiar development tools matter more than the ability to go out and get more MIPS/$ at any random vendor).

Apple isn't branding their server as something that will compete against Power, Sparc (snicker) or Itanium. They're looking for the hobbyist who doesn't really care about all the underpinnings. For them, it's enough of a server, with enough server features.

Re:What is the point of OSX server? (1)

kwolf22 (825499) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304606)

I think that Apple is trying to tell us that there is no point to having an OS X "server"; that's why the Xserve is gone & with Lion there will no longer be a separate server version of OS X. Seems to me like Apple is officially pulling out of what we consider "The Enterprise" in favor of consumer technologies - which has so far made them way more money than anything that they've ever done in the enterprise market - or could hope to do.

No OS X Server? No big loss... Like any other *nix, most of the server software was either already built into the client OS or could be added with little trouble. Paying a bunch of extra $$$ for a couple of GUI server tools always seemed like a bit of a rip off.

No Xserve? Well, I have to agree with you there... With no 3rd party hardware able to legally run OS X Server, you have to wonder what's going to happen to all of those poor folks that bought Xserves. To be clear, I'm in that position now since I administer a few Xserves & Xsan's. With no hardware server to run a server OS on, it's hard to justify staying with OS X as a server platform.

Of course, the new MacBook specs show a system with more power than any of the Xserves that I work with & thundercat... thunderclap... (shit, whatever they're calling Light Peak now) has more throughput than a Fibre Channel Xsan. Maybe a cluster of Mac Minis with Light Peak built in?... No....

Launchpad (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35303858)

Is it just me or does the Launchpad seem like an incredibly useless and redundant feature? It seems like commonly executed applications would be kept on the dock anyway; plus, the Applications folder is two clicks away.

Maybe for you or me (3, Interesting)

name_already_taken (540581) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304054)

Maybe they're envisioning people buying a lot of widget-style apps.

It sure seems like it would be convenient for people like my parents.

Re:Maybe for you or me (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304524)

I think you've got it. This isn't 'power user' stuff. It's designed to make someone who's first introduction to computers was an iPad happy. As long as they don't screw up 'normal' OS X, then it's fine. But it doesn't seem to do anything that I would be interested in.

Everybody off the Xeroscaping, please.

Re:Launchpad (3, Interesting)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304136)

The nice thing with Launchpad is being able to reorganize your apps without actually changing the location of the application bundles themselves. For whatever reason, Bad Things can happen if you do this yourself in your Applications directory.

That said, I probably won't ever use it much. Alfred (or any other launcher) is way faster, anyways.

Re:Launchpad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304208)

Amazing, they reinvented symlinks.

Simply stunning.

Re:Launchpad (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304584)

the format is nicer than the applications folder, and one can just think of it as a nicer implementation of the windows start/applications menu (does it still have that? i haven't used it since xp).

it is redundant with the dock, except that it's more easily navigated. the dock just gets too cluttered so rather than try to decide what to put on it, i just empty it and use it as a task switcher, if at all.

Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35303900)

Wow, like who didn't see that coming, and the death of the XServer, when the switch to Intel processors from PPC was announced?

For those who don't get it, enterprise bought the XServer because it had two bad boy (at the time) G5 processors with a 1Gz bus per processor instead of just one like Intel had. They mostly didn't care about OS X Server all that much.

Now of course Apple is now all Intel processors, so it negates the need to buy the higher priced XServer (why it was discontinued) and thus run OS X Server, thus it's now incorporated into OS X as a cost savings / hobbyist move.

I'm just wondering when the MacPro is going to be discontinued, what consumer needs 16 cores?

Re:Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion? (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304552)

I'm just wondering when the MacPro is going to be discontinued, what consumer needs 16 cores?

Anybody planning on running Flash.

Re:Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion? (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304788)

I'm just wondering when the MacPro is going to be discontinued, what consumer needs 16 cores?

Anybody planning on running Flash.

Wait, so you're saying that flash will use those cores effectively?

Mixed bag (2)

hcdejong (561314) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304132)

Full screen apps? Oh no! I hate when an application provides a nonstandard UI. The screen shot shows that even the menu bar is gone, which I find unacceptable for everything except media playback.

Autosave, Versions and Resume on the other hand are fantastic and long overdue. It'll be interesting to see how they implement Autosave: the easy way would be to save every x minutes, the right way would be to create a transaction log and save every action (keystroke, mouse gesture), to make sure that when you crash, every action up to the moment of the crash is preserved.

Re:Mixed bag (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304332)

I'd be happy with a real maximize button. For Windows users, what logically should be the maximize button (green +) is actually a "right size" button that performs application dependent actions.The response on all the Mac forums to requests for how to change the behavior to a maximize button is that nobody should ever need or want to maximize an application, because it is not the "Apple Way".

The addition of full screen apps seems to suggest even Apple recognizes there are times when using all the screen makes sense.

Re:Mixed bag (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304484)

From my understanding, the green '+' button is being repurposed to do the full-screen thing. I just wish I could resize windows from any of the borders, rather than the bottom-right corner. That's my biggest irritation with the UI.

Re:Mixed bag (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304614)

That irritation is finally being fixed in Lion.

But will the server provide useful SOHO features? (2)

anegg (1390659) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304148)

Mac OS X Server 10.6 features implied a shared Address Book and shared Calendar feature that would be useful to SOHO environments. However, trying to get it up and running is challenging. Once running, the capabilities are less than expected. I wonder if 10.7 will bear fruit towards making the Mac OS X Server platform a one-stop shop for those SOHO environments inclined to use it rather than Microsoft Server with Exchange?

Re:But will the server provide useful SOHO feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304602)

Wow, haven't been to Manhattan in a while! Didn't realize that market segment was so important!

App Store... Ubuntu Repository. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304150)

Wow no way, App Store to install and update apps? in no way like the standard Linux Repositories that existed for years now...

Re:App Store... Ubuntu Repository. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304204)

It's not. Can I sell a app on a linux repository if I don't want to give it away?

Re:App Store... Ubuntu Repository. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304234)

Sure, just use an activation key. You will have to setup your own repo or find one that already does that. Ubuntu has such a repo used for pay for codecs and the like.

Re:App Store... Ubuntu Repository. (1)

wzzzzrd (886091) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304322)

It's not. Can I sell a app on a linux repository if I don't want to give it away?

Ubuntu brings this by default. You can, for example, purchase World Of Goo from the "For Purchase" Repository.

Re:App Store... Ubuntu Repository. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304252)

Your missing the point. This App Store is different from Linux Repositories because the Apple App Store is shiny and magical and has the Apple logo on it, thats all anything takes to be different when Apple is involved.

Lion also includes the Mac App Store (0)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304162)

Just like on the iPhone, you can now sell stuff in the App store, and give Apple a cut on everything you do!

Yay!

It's an expensive religion tho', tithing is 30%.

Re:Lion also includes the Mac App Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304346)

And yet another person doesn't understand that "tithing" means giving 10%. No more, no less.

Misunderestimated vocabulary (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304744)

And yet another person doesn't understand that "tithing" means giving 10%. No more, no less.

Yeah, we should round up these fools and decimate them! Then we'll be rid of them altogether!

Re:Lion also includes the Mac App Store (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304504)

Snow Leopard already has the Mac App Store.

Re:Lion also includes the Mac App Store (1)

Old97 (1341297) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304724)

Just like in a brick and mortar store except there you can beg for shelf space and if you get it then your cut will be much smaller than the 70% Apple givers you. You can also create your own web site, maintain it, process your payments, pay transaction fees to credit card companies, etc. all the while hoping someone will come to your site - one in a billion or so. In either case you'll need to buy lot's of advertising just to get people to your site or a store willing to stock your product. Effective advertising is extremely expensive. I think 30% is pretty fair especially since you have the option to sell direct or through other retailers if you choose. Get some real world experience and see what marketing, selling and distributing really cost.

With Jobs gone (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304176)

With Jobs gone what is the point of this? Apple is dead, gone bye-bye, see you later, that's all folks.

This is the exact same situation as Reiser FS. When a mediocre but somewhat popular system losing its leader then it basically disappears altogether.

Meh. Missing features. (1)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304280)

I was really looking for better SSD support. I'm an avid Mac user, I'd love my iMac to be faster, but today most of my issues are with the lack of SSD support. I'd love TRIM. Some OS integrated ability to use an SSD as a cache for spinning media would be nice -- I don't want to pay for an SSD to store my iTunes or iPhoto database, but I never want to hear the spinning media seek when I'm playing video games or using Firefox. Even file level deduplication would save me some space, but I'll admit I lust for block level without enough data to justify. Wait, did I just start listing features of ZFS after I mentioned TRIM?

Re:Meh. Missing features. (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304600)

Lack of TRIM support is annoying, and hopefully it's just a feature that hasn't been announced yet. For now, you can always get a drive with a SandForce controller. In fact, this is what everyone recommends doing.

Re:Meh. Missing features. (1)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304730)

Personally, this is what I plan on doing in May, but not offering TRIM this many years after Microsoft began support is ... embarrassing.

Re:Meh. Missing features. (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304800)

It's especially strange when you consider the Air comes with an SSD... Then again, I'm not sure who the manufacturer is.

Re:Meh. Missing features. (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304832)

I thought OS X didn't 'need' trim? I believe that was something I read about here so it's sure to be incorrect.... But I use an SSD / spinning media combination in 3 Macs, two laptops and a MacPro - seems to work fine. Even iTunes is smart enough to let the music files exist somewhere else. The biggest pig I've found is Parallels as it insists on stuffing images on the main drive. Haven't really looked around to see if I can move them though.

Adobe stuff doesn't seem to mind anymore so if they can do it, anybody can.

Re:Meh. Missing features. (1)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 3 years ago | (#35305052)

OSX doesn't 'need' TRIM, but without it, you'd better have a controller with excellent background garbage collection, or you're going to suffer performance penalties after a few weeks or months. Unless you stick with the SSD that Apple ship with, in which case I believe you're stuck with that poor performance to start with (far better than spinning media, but not as fast as competing SSDs).

And I'm not stating that OSX is so stupid that it prevents the user from manually putting data elsewhere (like iTunes' "copy to iTunes library vs leave it where it is). I'm stating that the ability to use an SSD as an additional level of cache would be a very compelling feature. Suddenly a 30GB SSD would be very useful for a large number of customers instead of a 128+ GB SSD to manually keep everything you think you might notice.

Push notifications--yeah, right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304306)

Can push notifications be believed when Apple never got this advertised feature working under Snow Leopard?

Cat theme (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35304562)

Has anyone else noticed that Apple seems to be using a cat theme for their X series of MacOS?

mac app store on lion (1)

jedibrand (886925) | more than 3 years ago | (#35304866)

Is that like an officially sanctioned package repo from Apple, kinda like the ones provided on any given linux distro by their respective parent organization? how innovative!
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