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Libya SIGINT Jamming Satellites, Towers

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the gentlemen-do-not-kill-a-bunch-of-citizens dept.

Censorship 463

h00manist writes "Libya's Gaddafi apparently loves radio hacking. Signal jamming is being used to disable Thuraya satellite phones. Also being jammed is satellite TV network provider Arabsat, affecting vast areas in the Middle East, Gulf, Africa and Europe. Cellphone and internet transmissions are working only intermittently. Soldiers are confiscating electronics, too. This has gone on for days, allowing killing to be carried out largely hidden from the rest of the world, quite different from what happened in Egypt. The locations of the jamming signals are known to company executives — around the capital, Tripoli — but nobody can do anything. Only POTS is available, and it is monitored. Technically speaking, could this happen everywhere? Alternatives?"

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first post (0, Redundant)

CompMD (522020) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307532)

clearly not from libya.

Re:first post (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307830)

clearly not from libya.

Actually twitter is full of information from Libya all the same. But live video, or any video, is hard to come by. The same shooting with video is quite different than just a text report!

Al Jazeera live from Libya (1)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307900)

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/02/23/live-blog-libya-feb-24 [aljazeera.net] I have to wonder if soldiers confiscating electronics offer to sell them back to the people they confiscated them from? Nothing like a falling regime to bring out the entrepreneurial spirit.

Re:Al Jazeera live from Libya (1, Insightful)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308068)

Al Jazeera (or someone) is manipulating the news from Libya (or at the very least, posting doctored images).

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/game.jpg [aljazeera.net]

Open that image in an editor, then look closely at the bullet hole at the final "a" in Al Jazeera. The paint goes right over it. Zoom in closely. There is another to the left.

Photo-shopped.

Re:Al Jazeera live from Libya (3, Insightful)

gknoy (899301) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308138)

Alternatively, someone may have painted the graffiti on the wall after the bullet holes had been made.

Re:first post (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308218)

The best tweet: "I hope programmers worldwide will join me in calling for M[ou]'?am+[ae]r .*([AEae]l[- ])? [GKQ]h?[aeu]+([dtz][dhz]?)+af[iy] to step down."

Isn't this just an act of war (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307546)

to the extent it affects neighboring states?

Re:Isn't this just an act of war (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307870)

to the extent it affects neighboring states?

I think that's one of the glaring unanswered questions of the day. But I think it is indeed an act of war - and blowing up the sources would seem like a very proportionate, acceptable response to it. Given all the chaos, it may not even generate much reaction.

Could be worse (5, Funny)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307558)

They could be going with SIGKILL. Of course, SIGQUIT would be a nice improvement.

Re:Could be worse (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307664)

They could be going with SIGKILL. Of course, SIGQUIT would be a nice improvement.

Or they could be filthy niggers making lame-ass jokes that someone with 2 IQ points to rub together might appreciate.

Don't worrry. Unoriginal lame-ass predictable redundant humor is highly rewarded here. You will get your +5 Funny moment in the spotlight. I will get -1 for daring to say your humor is dumb even for ghetto niggers.

Re:Could be worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307688)

How about -1 for the "n-word"?

Re:Could be worse (0)

cyrus0101 (1750660) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307760)

No, you get a -1 for delivering your evaluation of his humour in an antisocial and totally distasteful manner. I'd far rather tolerate "predictable redundant humour" than tolerate needlessly angry and misguided rantings.

Re:Could be worse (5, Funny)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307902)

I think that they have already gone to SIGKILL

Re:Could be worse (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308126)

Fortunately, kill doesn't seem to be setuid, and I think they're about to revoke his sudo rights.

Re:Could be worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307958)

Wouldn't SIGUNSIGNEDINT be better against overflows?

Re:Could be worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308160)

And in other news, a civilian organization has just won the contract to implement an internet kill-switch - prior to it being it being passed, but after a successful test.

Solution? (4, Informative)

jasno (124830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307572)

Re:Solution? (2)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307698)

Exactly my thoughts. A stealth bomber strike to get some (not much needed, but some) plausible deniability armed with those things.

Takem the fuck out. Ill be rootin'

Re:Solution? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308206)

A better solution and less risk would be to use cruse missiles like the Apache, Storm Shadow or SLAM-ER. The jamming sites are fixed and should be easy to target. Thing is that the US should not do this. Libya has used the US as a boogieman for a long time. Hey the EU is capable if they want to. ANd if you are going to do that you might as well take out the air bases as well. Over all I would say that tactic would be unwise at this time.

Re:Solution? (2)

dr2chase (653338) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307786)

Works for me, too. To quote a favorite blog, Gaddafi is Arabic for Ceausescu [first-draft.com] . Strafe your citizens, do not pass go, do not get a jury trial.

Re:Solution? (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307932)

It's a superficial comparison.
Ceausescu was replaced by a fairly organized albeit shadowed group of people who used the power of the masses to their own interest. As a direct result, 21+ years later, some of them still rule over Romania.
(diacritics won't work, they are replaced by... nothing. Nice job Slashdot!)

Re:Solution? (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307980)

I think we've already meddled in Libya's affairs quite enough thank you.

Re:Solution? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308162)

Yeah, we shouldn't have sold them western communication devices also sold in the US and the EU, designed by US and EU companies, made in Taiwan, Japan, and China. What the fuck were we thinking. Those US citizens, buying phones from multinational companies like Nokia, getting Libya in trouble. Damn them.

Oh, you mean THAT meddling. Sorry, when you are unclear, or rather you only want to pick and choose when meddling is "bad" in your book, it's hard to figure out what you mean.

My point is--grow up. We live in a world of contradictions. You're probably anti-oil or some such yet happily eat food trucked in to your local grocer.

We wanted Gaddafi out in the 80s (back then, I think he was Kaddafi or some different spelling, maybe even one with a Q). But people like you were like we have to work with Africa and the rest of the world, that we had to be reasonable, we have to work to bring stability peacefully with Libya, since their citizens have lives too. So we stopped the saber rattling esp. when Gaddafi actually seemed to have struck a tone of sanity after 9/11, when we were pounding the shit of any nation that looked at us funny and he was on the "list" of those "evil" nations.

But hey, I guess taking cell phones, block transmissions, are better than free speech and communication, all in the aims of the continued suppression of a few million Libyans. Who are WE to decide, right?

Directional antennas (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307576)

This is why you need to keep some nicely directional antennas with shielding from other directions, to reduce the effectiveness of their jamming ... of course the setup better be portable to increase your odds of living!

What next? (3, Interesting)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307612)

Clearly Qadafi is going to do the full Tiananmen Square on his people, and yet Europe is not doing anything because 9-10% of their oil was coming from Libya.

It's ridiculous, Libya's own ambassadors are resigning to protest him, and the Libyan UN delegation broke from Qadafi and is publicly demanding from New York that the UN step in and do something. Will anyone at least do something now that he's jamming regional TV and phone?

Re:What next? (5, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307690)

Clearly Qadafi is going to do the full Tiananmen Square on his people

Tiananmen Square was Army firing on unarmed demonstrators. The situation in Libya is way past that already - Ghaddafi has been using fighter jets to do airstrikes, and ships to shell areas, while opposition has taken over several regions of the country entirely (organizing brand new power and law enforcement structures in place in a grassroot manner), and in large cities, has captured large amounts of weapons. At this point, it's pretty much a civil war already.

Re:What next? (4, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307818)

Pretty much a civil war? Hell, at the rate it's going, the civil war will be over before the UN even forms a committee on it.

Re:What next? (5, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308002)

I was thinking more along the lines of he'll have purged the majority of his supporters before the UN forms a committee on it. As it's going right now, you've got his thugs running around hacking people up(house to house). You have mercs from some of the bloodiest intra-africa conflicts there, opening fire on people and dragging the bodies away.

Of course there is some heartening stuff like the fighter pilots who ran to malta, or the couple that ditched in the desert and ran like hell. He doesn't have absolute control on his military, but he has enough that a lot of people are going to die.

And regardless of that, this is going to be the status-quo for the next 10 years in the middle east.

Re:What next? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308006)

Pretty much a civil war? Hell, at the rate it's going, the civil war will be over before the UN even forms a committee on it.

I think the jam at the UN Security Council is that several countries don't really want to be targeted in the future, when they find themselves wanting to shoot unarmed demontstators or civilians. Russia, China, France, and the US have killed unarmed civilians more than a few times, though not usually their own. And all these countries have veto power. Something would likely get decided if it went to the general council, but it's the security council that decides in armed confrontations.

Re:What next? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307696)

So, what do you propose Europe do? Attack the country? Won't that also be because of oil on the eyes of many (particularly the always so anti-western lefties)? Or a holy war (as usual)?

Re:What next? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308036)

So, what do you propose Europe do? Attack the country? Won't that also be because of oil on the eyes of many (particularly the always so anti-western lefties)? Or a holy war (as usual)?

I propose they initially enable all communications. Starting with disabling the signal jamming.

Re:What next? (2)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307706)

If gaddafi is let to his crazyness, tiananmen will look like a boy scouts meeting.

Re:What next? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307780)

If gaddafi is let to his crazyness, tiananmen will look like a boy scouts meeting.

Except with less inappropriate touching...

Nothing to do with UN per say (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307756)

UN has nothing to do with preventing little wars and conflicts. UN was setup as a world forum, you know, speaking place, where countries can talk to each other. That is the purpose of the UN - so politicians can talk. This allows someone like Iranian president to come to UN in New York and talk whatever the hell they want. It allowed USSR president to do the same. Or the US president.

The purpose of the UN security council is to prevent nuclear war between major superpowers.

The extras added to the function of the UN, like UNICEF or demining program or peacekeeping are all extras and have nothing to do with the core of UN functionality.

So in the respect of world forum and prevention of nuclear war that destroys the entire human civilization, I would have to say that UN worked quite well so far.

Re:Nothing to do with UN per say (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308112)

The purpose of the UN security council is to prevent nuclear war between major superpowers.

Oh please! Are you so naive? The UN exists protect Israel and the old, white, bald headed, Europeans who are racist terrorists that run the place. It has turned a regional conflict into world war. Better to get it over with quickly with the nukes than the slow death they are bringing upon us now.

Re:What next? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307768)

Of course the Libyan UN delegation will be in favor of UN intervention. But before we go into a Muslim country YET AGAIN and start fucking around with their affairs YET AGAIN after we've been told repeatedly for decades that our continual meddling in Muslim affairs is the prime reason behind Islamic terrorism, maybe we should, you know, ask whether the Libyans really want our involvement? It's true that people are being killed, but it also seems like the revolt is gaining the upper hand over the old regime.

Do you really think a UN or American intervention in Libya is going to end with freedom for Libyans, or don't you think it's more likely that we'll just install another puppet regime like we have done dozens of times in this region of the world? Do you think the people of Libya are too stupid to realize that would happen?

Gaddafi's government is defecting left and right, the man is on TV saying bin Laden is drugging the children of his country with hallucinogens, the man has clearly COMPLETELY lost his mind and will not be in power for much longer. Let the Libyans handle this their own way. Treat them like adults.

Re:What next? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307952)

Your post pretty much explains why nobody - the U.S. included - is exactly going in with blazing guns there.

As tempting as it is to say "Europe should go in!" or "USA should go in!" (or Russia, or China, or the Australians), I'm not entirely sure it would actually -help- the population. It may end the killing a little sooner, but then what?

Libya doesn't really have a modern political and legal structure. If outsiders were to go in now, they'd have to commit to 10-20 years of essentially building a country from scratch with many of its inhabitants extremely displeased with the status quo and who emotionally want to see complete change overnight - blinding them from rational thought and understanding that this takes time.

Drop out of the 10-20 years and you antagonize the people because they feel you've abandoned them (Afghanistan/Russia skirmishes). Stay there for the 10-20 years and you antagonize them because clearly you're the western oppressor simply replacing the old oppressor (Iraq, current).

If Libyans in the street (not the embassy workers/etc. - the people seen in the few videos that make it out of the country) were clearly calling for intervention from outsiders, that would be a different thing. As it is, though, they're in their own revolution not calling for any such help.

Gaddafi has indeed completely lost it - first blaming western (U.S.) pressure (much like Mubarak did in Egypt), now blaming Al Qaida, tomorrow.. who knows - the Pope?

Re:What next? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307774)

Will anyone at least do something now that he's jamming regional TV and phone?

Jamming has been going on for days. Reestablishing full communications would be a serious blow to the dictatorship, which would suddenly have their mercenaries under thousands of cameras that broadcast worldwide.

Re:What next? (4, Insightful)

swb (14022) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307872)

This isn't "clear" at all.

He's got a pretty small fighting force comprised of mercenaries and what amounts to a small Praetorian guard left on his side; there have been mass defections from him and his hold on actual real estate is pretty small.

My sense is that he might hold out another week or two, but the whole thing is running on a cash and carry basis and with the chaos and world opinion, cash won't hold out. The defections are already legion.

I'm not sure what Europe is supposed to "do", either -- occupy Libya? Mount an air campaign against Qadafi's strongholds? Even if the Europeans had a sea lift capability, European public opinion -- and public treasuries -- would not support it. It would probably also be counter-productive to the Arab "street" and larger Arab diplomacy.

Re:What next? (1)

guyminuslife (1349809) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307890)

Will anyone at least do something now that he's jamming regional TV and phone?

If this really does turn into a civil war, I would assume that the US would pick a side and then start training/arming them like the good old Cold War days.

Funny, everyone who says the west should do someth (4, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308108)

Funny, this. When Saddam killed Kurds, people cried out for western intervention. Then the west invades to dispose and it isn'y right either. Somalia erupts and again the same people cry out for intervention, but then complain when some war mongers get killed. Same with Afghanistan. Women get stoned, intervene! Intervention happens: GET OUT!

So, are you pro Iraq invasion? Pro-war? Pro-increased military budgets? Pro-conscription? Then what exactly do you mean with intervention.

The simple fact is that the real world is a hellishly difficult place and western governments are dealing with an electorate incapable of keeping a coherent train of thought in a single sentence. How can you make policy of any kind when one moment people want peace and war the next? When we should leave other nations alone but also stop them from doing anything we disagree with?

And do the Libyans even want intervention? By who? The reports coming from Libya are far from reliable. One thing that has been noted is that foreigners who have gotten out speak of plenty of HEARED violence and even some theft but not a single sign of the hardcore violence reported. Covering their tracks? Violence happens elsewhere or maybe the violence is over stated? Who knows for sure and you wish western officials to commit to what might turn into an extended decades long war based on this?

And if you start intervening, how soon? Intervene at any protest where people die at the hand of the police? That would have seen the US invaded by the west to stop its police killing protestors pretty much throughout its history. What of the many race riots, intervention?

Intervention is rarely used, it is just to drastic a tool.

And of course it would play right into the dictators hand, see, the rioters are lead by foreigners seeking to re-establish their colonies. You are away that Libya used to be a colony of, I believe, France? Send in the Foreign legion? Yeah, that would go over well.

No, the cries for intervention are best ignored by a politician because the exact same kids will be protesting ten seconds after you intervene about that as well. Best to ignore them.

Let the Libyans choose their own destiny. When they win, it will have been their own freedom they have won on their own terms. Imposed freedom will never taste as sweet as freedom you won yourself.

Re:What next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308172)

Oil isn't slowing any reaction. Even if it was an overriding issue, which I doubt, the oil fields are apparently already in the hands of the opposition to Gaddafi and the oil is therefore relatively safe (the fields are mainly in the east and south where the opposition is in control). Apparently two pilots that had been ordered to attack one of the fields refused their orders and ejected from the planes before getting there. Worst case, even if Gaddafi did try to stop the flow of oil by blowing up facilities, it would be pretty much back to normal within 6 months or so. Despite the loss of life, the Libyans are doing a pretty good job of things on their own.

Rather than Tiananmen Square, I think it's more likely Gaddafi is going to do a Ceaucescu [wikipedia.org] . He may have plenty of guns, be plenty insane, and have a fair number of fanatical supporters, but the far greater majority of people in Libya are out to get him, including a large fraction of the army, and they'll find a way. I'd lay even odds he'll be strung up or fleeing to Zimbabwe within the week (one of the few places that might take him), and the jamming problem will be solved shortly after.

That being said, I suspect few people would object if a bomb happened to mysteriously land on the relevant radio towers doing the jamming.

Nobody can do anything? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307616)

Really? You mean HARM missiles don't exist? Nobody has access to some fertilizer, duct tape, and blasting caps?

I think you mean ... nobody IS doing anything, not nobody CAN do anything.

Anything emitting a signal gives you a lockon - how do you think we get our missiles to hit the rockets for the fake tests for missile defense? We put radio transmitters in them.

Seriously ...

Re:Nobody can do anything? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307694)

I think you mean ... nobody IS doing anything, not nobody CAN do anything.

Correct. So do something.

Re:Nobody can do anything? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307764)

Maybe someone IS doing something, but does not want publicity until the problem has been corrected.

get the captain midnight guy to over ride this (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307854)

get the captain midnight guy to over ride this he still alive right?

the roomer is that the guy who did the max headroom incident is dead.

Ham (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307640)

Bust out the ham radios and brush up on your CW!

I really need to up my license to General.

Re:Ham (1)

Mal-2 (675116) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307674)

That'll work great, till they break the door down to get to you -- or at least to your transmitter, if in a separate location. They're stepping on all sorts of international treaties here, what makes you think being licensed would mean a damn thing to them?

Re:Ham (1)

electron sponge (1758814) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307732)

Bust out the ham radios and brush up on your CW!

I really need to up my license to General.

CQ CQ CQ oh shit help guys with guns are here

Mobile 2-meter stuff might be an option. Don't count on repeaters lasting long though.

Re:Ham (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307922)

Bust out the ham radios and brush up on your CW!

I really need to up my license to General.

CQ CQ CQ oh shit help guys with guns are here

Mobile 2-meter stuff might be an option. Don't count on repeaters lasting long though.

The guy with the Bunga Bunga party is now sending the commercial.

Re:Ham (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307734)

Bust out the ham radios and brush up on your CW!

If the dictatorship is there for 40 years, and they're radio nuts trying to censor everyone, they know your address. Especially with that big antenna on the roof.

Yaawn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307672)

Another middle east story.

No alternatives (1)

NotAGoodNickname (1925512) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307678)

There ARE no alternatives. That is why when I hear people say the "MPAA/RIAA/government/etc cannot shut us down we will just do it this other way" I cringe. They can block the Internet and communication. How effective they are at it depends on how much effort they want to put into it. Don't think for a minute it can't happen where you live if they get desperate enough.

Re:No alternatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307790)

Ham radio. Worked long before Al Gore invented the internet.

Re:No alternatives (1)

tm2b (42473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307832)

Ah, the young. Information spread quickly throughout the computer world well before the Internet - as long as you have modems it can even be almost as fast via uucp clouds, but even without them a network of sneaker net volunteers can do a hell of a lot.

The USSR tried to block the spread of bootlegs of Western music in the 70s and 80s. They did not have much success.

Re:No alternatives (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307988)

Yeah, go ahead and compare speed of culture getting into politically locked countries (took years to spread) with this. No offense, but your comparison... could have been better.
Nowadays, information about what's happening should reach the world in minutes. When it doesn't, something's afwully wrong there. I don't care if the data (records, videos and so on) becomes available after 3 years. I want to know NOW.

Re:No alternatives (1)

tm2b (42473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308060)

It did not take years to spread. Bootlegs of new albums were usually widely available within a week to a month in most of the urban Soviet Block.

My example is an *extreme*, involving no computers. Once computers are involved, it is easy to make things happen much more quickly - and in the example of Libya, getting data out of the country in 12-24 hours (to make a news cycle in the West) could easily be done, given a group of dedicated volunteers. Libya is doing nothing to lock down its borders right now.

Re:No alternatives (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308136)

There ARE no alternatives. That is why when I hear people say the "MPAA/RIAA/government/etc cannot shut us down we will just do it this other way" I cringe. They can block the Internet and communication. How effective they are at it depends on how much effort they want to put into it. Don't think for a minute it can't happen where you live if they get desperate enough.

It's much easier to shut down communication than it is to block just unwanted communication. Cut the Internet routers, the cell phone/landline centrals, send army squads to shut down anyone running a wireless network and you'll pretty soon be back in the stone age.

The downside is, so will the rest of society. Even if you tried whitelisting "good" communication you'd throw the country into total chaos. That may not matter much if the country is already in chaos and civil war, but it can't last. How many companies would go completely to hell if they were cut off from their hosted servers? Very many. And it's not just the online stores that'd be fucked, very many businesses work with other businesses over encrypted Internet connections. Things would go to hell very, very fast.

I think that in peacetime the worst you would get is something like China - bad, but not like Libya right now. If all else fails, there's always sneakernet with USB drives, it might not be fast enough for a resistance movement but for entertainment I'm sure it'd work.

Alternatives? (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307686)

A NATO stealth bomber strike to take them out with missiles intended for that (i understand some ordinance can fry electronics). Enough is enough. Fuck Gaddafi!

Re:Alternatives? (3)

electron sponge (1758814) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307782)

A NATO stealth bomber strike to take them out with missiles intended for that (i understand some ordinance can fry electronics). Enough is enough. Fuck Gaddafi!

You mean an American stealth bomber. We're the only ones who have them. Of course it will be done, under the auspices of NATO or the UN. Some ordinance can indeed fry electronics, but I doubt we're going to go full EMP-burst on them. HARM works well enough and has the added bonus of not being a weapon of mass destruction. It's going to happen, by the way. Just a matter of the weather in Tripoli.

Re:Alternatives? (1)

Above (100351) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308046)

A NATO stealth bomber strike to take them out with missiles intended for that (i understand some ordinance can fry electronics). Enough is enough. Fuck Gaddafi!

I am not generally in favor of the US getting involved in these sorts of disputes, but when a government starts slaughtering civilians perhaps it is time. It would absolutely be best to do this under NATO or UN sanction, but that may take too much time.

I'm sure we can figure out the locations of the transmitters, and rather than a stealth bomber this sounds like a perfect use of cruise missiles. No risking our own air crew, or the political down side of killed or captured military folks. Heck, with no communication we can deny we did it, the rebels must have blown up the sites.

The "ordinance that can fry electronics" is a Electromagnetic Pulse [wikipedia.org] , and the best way to do it with a weapon is a nuke. I don't think nuking Libya would help the situation.

Hidden from world view? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307704)

allowing killing carried out largely hidden from the world view

Really? I see events in Libya plastered all over my news feeds, with numerous reports of killings, use of unprecedented amount of force (fighter jets bombing residential areas, artillery strikes) etc.

Re:Hidden from world view? (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307730)

Your reports count less than a thousend dead, but we also know that he is using big boats to shell and bombers to attack the people or, as it is sometimes depicted, "soft targets" or "personel".... so no, you are not getting the full picture. When this is well and over, i guess the death count will be tens to hundreds of thousends.

Re:Hidden from world view? (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307766)

Your reports count less than a thousend dead, but we also know that he is using big boats to shell and bombers to attack the people or, as it is sometimes depicted, "soft targets" or "personel".... so no, you are not getting the full picture.

I've mentioned bombings in my original post. And yes, ship bombardments were in the news, too. We might not be getting the casualty figures, but it doesn't take much imagination to picture what ship artillery can do to heavily populated residential areas. So the overall picture may be lacking details, but you don't really need those to see how bleak it is (and I don't think extra details would change it much).

Re:Hidden from world view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307864)

he is using big boats to shell and bombers to attack the people

Shelling your own subjects. Libya: UN Human Rights Council member state.

Network of nodes using Uucp, USENET (1)

tm2b (42473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307800)

If I were there right now, I would be helping people set up a network of tiny servers. Use UUCP (over POTS or over a network of WiFi networks, using the pringles can antenna hack to boost range to the next node - in a pinch, sneaker net by dedicated volunteers might also bridge some gaps) and USENet software (probably INN), and you can make sure that any photos or media will spread through the whole network so that any one node's removal would not remove the data.

You need not be up 24x7, in fact it is probably smarter to stagger up times so that you only overlap with the nodes nearby you in the network.

At that point, it only takes one of the nodes being in contact with a western news agency to get the data out - whether by some sort of closed link, or by sneaker net (the eastern border is completely unguarded, CNN just walked right in).

Hell, use some micro servers and a solar panel and you're even immune to power disruption.

Information technology makes it really easy to make data persistent if you are determined to do so.

Re:Network of nodes using Uucp, USENET (5, Insightful)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307944)

If I were there right now

Either you'd be:
1. Shitting in your pants hiding in the basement, praying not to get blown up
or
2. At the port, begging for a ride on a ferry out.

Sadly, our western, basement dwelling nerdiosity doesn't begin to comprehend the potential of violence in such a situation.

Re:Network of nodes using Uucp, USENET (2)

tm2b (42473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308198)

It is easy to malign random strangers. Not everybody here is still a child who has done nothing dangerous in their lives.

Of *course* it is dangerous to resist an autocracy. But ensuring good information flow is a vital part of any mass political effort, why would we not follow the same spectrum of committment that the people who are actually there do?

Re:Network of nodes using Uucp, USENET (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307992)

Yes, I imagine most slashdotters would be in their mom's basement, pretending to save the world while the revolution is outside with guns and blood.

If you were there right now: (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308186)

You would be to busy trying to skoop the shit out of your pants while quaking in your mothers basement.

Heroes are far and few between and NONE are on slashdot.

The Libyans ain't fighting with fancy gadgets. The twitterers are BEHIND the front lines. The real heroes are attacking army bases with tractors and rocks. Not worrying about some facebook page that won't load.

When the going gets though, the slashdotter hides under his bed. Don't pretend otherwise until you have proven yourself in battle which I hope none of us ever have to do. Because I know myself for the coward that I am.

Or make a stand, right now. KILL a US arms dealer whose weapons are RIGHT now being used to kill civilians. Yes, the US didn't know how fast to sell weapons once it lifted its own embargo. Make a stand now, in your own country and risk your life. Wanna bet you come up with a thousand and one excuses not even to post a nasty email to the politicians who approved the arms deals? It takes a coward to know one.

My Favorite Quote (1)

Decessus (835669) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307814)

I think this was my favorite quote from the article:

"Unfortunately there is deliberate jamming by Libya ... which is illegal," CEO Samer Halawi told Al Arabiya television.

I'm pretty sure Gaddafi stopped caring about what is legal when he had his army open fire on the protests.

Re:My Favorite Quote (1)

RightwingNutjob (1302813) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307924)

Just to underscore that he's not a good guy, he orders bombs dropped on crowds of civilians and he jams your TV.

Re:My Favorite Quote (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307956)

I think he stopped caring about legalities when he let anyone with a beef train in the Libyan Sahara and sent them home with as much SEMTEX as they could carry.

Or maybe when he started blowing up bars and airplanes.

Re:My Favorite Quote (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308004)

Christ! He didn't care about "legal" when he took over the damn country. Legal just doesn't apply. Actually considering how corrupt the law is, I'm surprised anybody even bothers to bring it up. "Legal" is costing far many more lives than it's saving.

Re:My Favorite Quote (1)

Cambo67 (932815) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308096)

Radio jamming in Libya is nothing new. As a kid, I lived in Tripoli for a couple of years. We came home to the UK in 1977. At the time, they were jamming an Egyptian radio station by transmitting from a radio ship in Tripoli harbour. It was actually quite welcome for us expats, as what they were transmitting was the output from one of the pirate radio stations off the UK coast, so we got to hear the music from home :)

Re:My Favorite Quote (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308220)

"Unfortunately there is deliberate jamming by Libya ... which is illegal," .

I'd like to know how things being legal and illegal there works, as there seems to be no constitution. There is international business however, so some sort of agreement exists. All poinless now... it'll be another country entirely in a few days.

US to Europe: deal with it (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307824)

For once in your miserable lives.

You go in and clean up the mess. After all Libya is supplying your oil.

Or blithely drive around in your BMW's and Fiats talking about how civilized your are.

You finc

Re:US to Europe: deal with it (0)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307888)

I would expect the Europeans wouldn't consider a military action, even if justified, because it would look too much like the US military actions that are almost universally derided as imperialism or cowboy diplomacy.

I seem to recall the US followed the European lead in "dealing" with Bosnia - and how long did it take to act effectively there?

Re:US to Europe: deal with it (0)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307928)

When the US goes into "clean up the mess" we are called baby killers.

This is in the European Union's backyard do they have the fortitude to do it themselves?

Re:US to Europe: deal with it (0)

JohnnyBGod (1088549) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307982)

'Cause going in and cleaning messes worked so well for the "cleaned" countries in the past...

Re:US to Europe: deal with it (1)

dlt074 (548126) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308208)

AMEN

but that won't happen. so, i'm at the point where i think we should just let the middle east blow up and when they are done killing each other, we buy the oil from who ever is left.

oil is black regardless of who sells it.

side note: you think they are pissed at the west now, wait until they run out of oil and they have NOTHING to offer the world, and we go back to treating them like Africa.

Home on jam... (1)

vrythmax (1555425) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307850)

missiles sound about right.

hacking is the answer (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307884)

Hack cheap 49 MHz FRS/GMS walkie talkies, Arduinos andf WiFi to create an ersatz packet radio communication network. Post the "How To" online in multiple languages. For extra credit, add long distance WiFi links using Pringles can antennae and program everything to sleep and wake up in unpredictable intervals so they're hard to find.

The FRS/GMS radios are computer controlled already, so it's not that hard, but not trivial either as there's a lot of information to collect.

The radios already frequency hop, so there's lots of clever tricks that you can implement.

Re:hacking is the answer (0)

wampus (1932) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308132)

How would you propose getting any of that shit into the country while the only people going IN are especially ballsy news media and mercenaries? Also, online doesn't work when there is no internet connectivity.

Re:hacking is the answer (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308196)

Hack cheap 49 MHz FRS/GMS walkie talkies, Arduinos andf WiFi to create an ersatz packet radio communication network. Post the "How To" online in multiple languages. For extra credit, add long distance WiFi links using Pringles can antennae and program everything to sleep and wake up in unpredictable intervals so they're hard to find.

The FRS/GMS radios are computer controlled already, so it's not that hard, but not trivial either as there's a lot of information to collect.

The radios already frequency hop, so there's lots of clever tricks that you can implement.

Ok, first invent a time machine so you can go back 6 months, gather all this stuff, and get it programmed.
The problem is now, and you only have the equipment you already have.

Alternatives (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307894)

IPoAC - IP over Avian Carriers

Jammer locations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307898)

AlJazeera should (and others) should publish the exact locations of the jammers. The People of Liby can deal with them.

The Iranians and Cubans have done this for years (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307912)

Options against jamming: (1)

amanicdroid (1822516) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307936)

methods of transmission:
fibre, shielded CAT & co-ax
some spread spectrum radios can probably overcome jamming
carrier pigeons strapped w/ micro-sd cards

Counter-tactics:
play hotter and colder with AM(?) radios to find the jamming source
jamming requires lots of power, attack power plants and generators

Re:Options against jamming: (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308070)

Get a big Dish that can broadcast and over power what they useing to jam just like how HBO was takeovered

Re:Options against jamming: (1, Funny)

wampus (1932) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308146)

And put up a big billboard in Arabic that says something along the lines of "AIM SHELLS HERE."

Oops (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35307964)

Now he just carried the war outside the border. I say that leaves him open to invasion... Whoopeee!

If POTS is all there is, and it's monitored... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35307996)

Stenography = hiding a datastream in a picture.

Somethingelseography = hiding a datastream in a voice transmission?

Re:If POTS is all there is, and it's monitored... (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308214)

I believe steganography is what you're thinking of.

Like in that movie... (1)

bwilstyle (1538911) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308018)

I would recommend a jam buster buster.

Should of finished the job Days Ago (1)

Bruha (412869) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308052)

We should of finished the job while he was talking in front of his bombed house. I'm sure Regan was in his grave trying to push a launch button.

Re:Should of finished the job Days Ago (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308142)

Well that, or Zombie Regan was trying to push the "Sell weapons to our enemies" button.

If you support democracy, leave Libya alone (4, Insightful)

thetagger (1057066) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308082)

Look, people die, that's horrible. But Libya's problems are their own internal problem. It's ultimately a healthy thing that Libyans are revolting against their dictator. This is democracy at its finest. If all goes well, this is going to be their 1776.

If the West were to intervene, that would kill all of the legitimacy that this movement has. The West is pro-Kadaffi, just Google a bit and you will find pictures of Kadaffi shaking hands the hands of smiling people like Barack Obama, Gordon Brown and Silvio Berlusconi. The West doesn't give a flying fuck about Libyans as long as their own citizens can buy cheap oil and that is why the West is so embarrassed when a regime they support falls. That is what happened in Egypt, Tunisia and now, possibly, in Libya. That is what happened in a dozen Latin American countries two decades ago. The West is part of the problem here, not the solution. Leave them alone. This could be the blood bath that will end all future blood baths.

Re:If you support democracy, leave Libya alone (5, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35308182)

The West is pro-Kadaffi, just Google a bit and you will find pictures of Kadaffi shaking hands the hands of smiling people like Barack Obama, Gordon Brown and Silvio Berlusconi.

Shaking hands, that's your evidence? Shaking hands with someone doesn't mean you like them, particularly if you're a politician or a diplomat. It's true that NOT shaking hands with them is a rather major public snub, but in politics you can shake hands with someone and declare war on him the next day.

Answer to the question: Yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35308084)

Question: Could this happen anywhere ?
Answer: Yes. Case closed.

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