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Official MS Kinect SDK Coming to Windows

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the i-know-what-i'm-hacking-first dept.

Microsoft 84

fredr1k writes "Microsoft figured there is some movement in the Kinect hacking scene. They have now announced a Kinect SDK for Windows. (Though only for Academics & Enthusiasts). 'Ever since the November launch of Kinect for Xbox 360, enthusiasts and academic researchers alike have expressed their excitement and intense interest in the possibilities created by the products ability to enable users to bring games and entertainment to life without using a controller. While Microsoft plans to release a commercial version at a later date, this SDK will be a starter kit to make it simpler for the academic research and enthusiast communities to create rich natural user interfaces using Kinect technology.'"

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Sex Games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348140)

If an SDK is available, does that mean sex games [latimes.com] are back on the table? The mere thought is giving me a kinection.

Re:Sex Games? (1)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348144)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9jMd1bwHaU [youtube.com]

No, it means stuff like this will work a little better.

Re:Sex Games? (1)

gilleain (1310105) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348454)

That's pretty funny, but a better use might be something like molecule manipulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrldmaF4rtU [youtube.com] using Jmol

" to make it simpler for the academic research..." (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348142)

Any half-smat editor would've realized it's to make revenue out of the MS (tm)Kinectic(c) SDK Professional(c); MS(tm) Kinectic(c) SDK Enterprise(c) and MS(tm) Kinectic(c) SDK Ultimate(c)

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (2)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348234)

That's what I thought. The company I work for has some interesting ideas for using the Kinect, but we were hoping for a good open source api. I'm afraid we're exactly the kind of people MS wants to see big money from.

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (2)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348242)

Well, that would be the idea behind the release of "a commercial version at a later date", to make revenue. Maybe you should at least read the summary before flaming the editor. Of course feel free to comment on the article itself with just reading the headline since this is Slashdot after all ;)

The release to academia (I assume through MSDN Academic Alliance?) is pretty cool. I know as a college student I had access to all that stuff and I downloaded everything I could off of it (Different versions of windows, IDE's, SQL servers) since you get to legally use it for non commercial stuff even afterwords. Granted Microsoft's incentive to do this is surely revenue based at the root but whatever, that's what companies do.

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (2)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348366)

AIUI it the real issue is that the company MS bought the tech off sells very similar tech for a MUCH higher pricetag for industrial use. So they are sensitive about what uses the kinect is put to.

It's kind of like when NI and lego collaborate to produced products aimed at kids based on labview they have to make sure they are sufficiantly crippled that they don't threaten labview's market.

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (2)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348738)

You might want to check the licensing on the stuff you downloaded - with MSDN and Technet you can use the software for testing and development, but not for production, commercial or otherwise (other than specific licenses, such as Visual Studio, Office etc, but those are enumerated in the agreement).

I'd be very surprised if the Adademic licensing is any different - infact, your rights may expire once you leave the educational institution.

So if you are using that software, I'd double check your license :)

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348784)

The copy of Windows 7 I got from UCF's MSDNAA site basically said that once I was finished with school, I could keep using the software but not get any more updates.

Brilliant.

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349034)

Yup, you typically get a copy of Windows included with corporate MSDN licenses as well - but SQL Server et al are testing and evaluation licenses only, you can never use them in a production sense.

Re:" to make it simpler for the academic research. (1)

naoursla (99850) | more than 3 years ago | (#35352342)

Most likely wrong. Microsoft doesn't charge for any of its API's. It charges for Windows and you get the API's with Windows.

It is probably "for academic research" because the API may change in the future and hasn't had enough testing to qualify it as a complete part of the Windows platform.

People have been screaming for an API from Microsoft. This is their attempt to answer those calls as quickly as possible.

Not a MS fan, but... (4, Interesting)

flogger (524072) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348178)

I'm not a huge MS fan, but doing things this way for the "Hacker" community is a lot better than Sony's response to what hacking has been going on with the PS3. Of course, any academicians that create really good stuff will surely find their work inside of the next MS update/release without any credit given or payment. However, that is better than a cease and desist order followed up with a lawsuit.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348250)

The past couple of months MS definitely has been showing a more positive attitude. More positive than they had before, and definitely more positive than the one Sony has been showing us lately.

I'm not quite ready to become a fan, though. But the Kinect has certainly been the first product ever from Microsoft that has made me want to give them money.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1, Informative)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348342)

> More positive than they had before

To be fair to MS, the Kinect did not employ any dirty tricks to keep it from being used on other equipment. If you read the blogs of the guys who built the first drivers, they reported none of the usual encryption tricks others like Sony and Nintendo are always using. Perhaps there's an argument about Japanese society's take on consumer rights/hacking, as these concepts are very Western or even explicitly American.

The only protectionism of the Kinect is see is that it does some crypto when talking to an Xbox. This exists so that competitors cannot build shoddy versions of the Kinect for the Xbox. Using the Kinect on other equipment seems to be hacker friendly, or at least, not explicitly anti-hacker.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (2)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348570)

They had a segment about Kinect hacking on Science Friday last November. One of the researchers complained that the Wii Remote had become a ubiquitous tool in some fields because it packed a lot of useful sensors and a wireless connection into a cheap, sturdy gizmo, but Nintendo just weren't interested in supporting them. The MS spokesperson used this as an opportunity to wax lyrical about how they'd deliberately not engineered any barriers to talking with the hardware, and their plans for the research SDK. Whether it's cultural or not, it's obvious that Microsoft's keen to capitalise on it.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349014)

It's not just cultural, but I do think that Microsoft has learned a very valuable lesson somewhere along the line. Life is easier when they love you than when they hate you.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349590)

They had a segment about Kinect hacking on Science Friday last November. One of the researchers complained that the Wii Remote had become a ubiquitous tool in some fields because it packed a lot of useful sensors and a wireless connection into a cheap, sturdy gizmo, but Nintendo just weren't interested in supporting them. The MS spokesperson used this as an opportunity to wax lyrical about how they'd deliberately not engineered any barriers to talking with the hardware, and their plans for the research SDK. Whether it's cultural or not, it's obvious that Microsoft's keen to capitalise on it.

Wow, some nice spin by Microsoft PR - the real reason there's no encryption and whatnot on Kinect is far more obvious - the Xbox360's USB 2 isn't that fast. That's partly why the IR depth sensor only works at QVGA and the RGB at VGA - there's just too much data flowing through the system to support 4 microphones and 2 VGA cameras at 30/60fps (not sure what the real framerate is).

Microsoft's supposed to be improving the Xbox360's USB stack to get closer to its theoretical limit (45MB/sec?) so it can set the IR depth sensor to VGA as well to improve depth sensing fidelity.

That's the reason reason why there's no encryption - the datarate is too high for the Xbox360.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35349886)

Nice FUD, but if you knew anything about encryption you'd know there's no explicit overhead in data size. There might be a negligible change due to key exchange or protocol details, but when you AES encrypt a big data block, it comes out the same size as it went in.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 3 years ago | (#35350920)

Wow, some nice spin by Microsoft PR - the real reason there's no encryption and whatnot on Kinect is far more obvious - the Xbox360's USB 2 isn't that fast.

Yeah, I don't think so. Microsoft's vision seems to be broader than that - they seems to think the Kinect may be a springboard into leading the evolution of user interfaces (since most recent attention has turned from WIMP [wikipedia.org] to multi-touch).

I happen to think they may be right. And unlike touchscreens, Kinect is built on breakthrough hardware that will be hard for others to replicate.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#35355700)

As noted below, I'm not sure what data transfer rates have to do with encryption.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348254)

doing things this way for the "Hacker" community is a lot better than Sony's response to what hacking has been going on with the PS3

It's easier for MS to take a hands-off approach, as the end result sells hardware and has no impact on the XBOX360's platform security, whereas on the PS3 it is a direct attack on the platform's ability to keep the closed environment that publishers demand.

That said, MS is obviously doing this to drive development back towards the Windows platform and away from OS X and Unix. Windows has the most restrictive driver development policies, as Vista 64, WS2008+ and W7 will not load a driver unless signed by both the vendor AND Microsoft (and each release costs $250 for validation) so only Microsoft will really bother to target it.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348736)

as Vista 64, WS2008+ and W7 will not load a driver unless signed by both the vendor AND Microsoft

bcdedit /set nointegritychecks ON

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348944)

It's easier for MS to take a hands-off approach, as the end result sells hardware and has no impact on the XBOX360's platform security, whereas on the PS3 it is a direct attack on the platform's ability to keep the closed environment that publishers demand.

I agree that this hack isn't really relevant to Sony's actions, but the Xbox360 has been cracked wide open for some time. Microsoft has handled this much better than Sony.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (4, Insightful)

slim (1652) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348266)

I'm not a huge MS fan, but doing things this way for the "Hacker" community is a lot better than Sony's response to what hacking has been going on with the PS3.

"Better than Sony" isn't much of a target, to be fair.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

FrankDrebin (238464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349572)

Just like: "Sure Doc was a dwarf, but but at least he had a medical degree."

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348270)

Yeah they where cool from the start. I remembered how positive their reaction was with regards of the adafruit contest for open source drivers. It is easy to be smothing if the cat is already out of the bag...

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348404)

It would be better to catch herpes instead of leprosy, but personally I'll stay away from both.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1, Offtopic)

jvonk (315830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348560)

It would be better to catch herpes instead of leprosy, but personally I'll stay away from both.

I agree with your overall point. However, I disagree with your first assertion. Leprosy (Hansen's Disease) is caused by bacteria and is curable with antibiotics. Herpes, well... you get to take Valtrex for the rest of your life and hope it "reduces the risk" of transmission and "manages" your outbreak frequency. I assess "least worst" as a curable disease (presuming it is diagnosed before major damage is done).

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348552)

I'm not a huge MS fan, but doing things this way for the "Hacker" community is a lot better than Sony's response to what hacking has been going on with the PS3

You're comparing hacking a controller to hacking a games machine.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348610)

Actually, Sony's been open to people using the Move for the same sort of hacks as people are using the Kinect for. what Sony is against is people hacking the ps3 itself to play pirated software. MS has a similar policy when people hack the 360 to try to do the same thing.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349872)

Actually, Sony's been open to people using the Move for the same sort of hacks as people are using the Kinect for. what Sony is against is people hacking the ps3 itself to play pirated software. MS has a similar policy when people hack the 360 to try to do the same thing.

Move isn't terribly interesting to hack - it's really just an improved Wiimote turned around, and those hacks have existed for years now.

And Microsoft vs. Sony - Microsoft's still less evil. There's one open hack in the Xbox360 - and it lets you play pirated games. In fact, that's all you can do with it. You can't install Linux with it. And Microsoft's ability to detect it is questionable. It's the DVD-ROM hack where you flash in an alternate firmware that tricks the 360 into thinking it's dealing with a real Xbox360 DVD rather than a burned one.

The other hacks have been closed a long time ago, and Microsoft hasn't really gone ape-shit over all the piracy and crap. Xbox360 piracy is huge compared to the PS3's piracy, mostly because the Xbox360's been open for piracy since a few months since launch. The PS3's ability for piracy only came out just a few months ago.

Yet we don't see Microsoft trying to sue everyone - sure they ban you from Live, but that's it (your console can sill play pirated games, and legit games, just not on Live). And hell, there are hacks to let you use cheap SATA laptop drives instead of paying 10x as much for the Microsoft ones - Microsoft still hasn't bothered going against people who use hddhackr.exe for that purpose.

The only questionable thing was when Microsoft engaged the Xbox authentication chip in the memory cards that locked out Datel cards (even then we knew it was coming - why else did the memory cards have an authentication chip like the Kinect does?).

No, Sony's gone ape-shit over piracy, which is strange since piracy was huge on their PSX and PS2s, and they seemed to do OK. Maybe it was an overreaction to what happened on the PSP, but then again, CFW is so much better than the official firmware (Sony crippled video playback off non-UMD sources - they eventually relented when CFW had the non-crippled playback for ages).

Heck, I'd say all the platforms this generation are doing fairly well - the Wii's probably the most pirated platform nowadays (as is the DS line), followed by the Xbox360. PS3's just joining the crowd.

And Sony - realize that hackers and pirates are not the same group of people. But hackers and pirates do have shared interests. Hackers want to load homebrew. Pirates use that ability to load games. Give hackers the ability to load homebrew and you drain away a lot of talent who would otherwise end up helping the pirates. Perhaps the best move now is just reinstate OtherOS with full hardware access now (because it's already available) - eat the loss in possible licensing fees of some indie games rather than having to battle with pirates who hold the master keys to the PS3. Drain the talent of those who can make CFW, keep them happy, and the pirate's CFW supply would be slowed.

Re:Not a MS fan, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348814)

Of course, any academicians that create really good stuff will surely find their work inside of the next MS update/release without any credit given or payment.

Actually they usually get a nice(assuming working at redmond is nice) job offer.

This is great. (1)

genghisjahn (1344927) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348188)

And with mono-dev...perhaps you can play with the Microsoft toy and still keep your open source hands clean. I won't...I'll be using the greatness of Visual Studio 2010, but you know, there's no accounting for IDE preference.

Re:This is great. (1)

dunezone (899268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348448)

I love Visual Studio and with the express editions its extremely easy to take up C# or C++. My only beef with Microsoft SDK is sometimes they limit your ability, for example with the Windows Phone SDK we still don't have access to the LED light. Now of course some of us found ways to get access but these were holes we found in the SDK and cause other issues.

We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

betasam (713798) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348222)

And this is a good thing? We still have to wait until spring for the 'early release' SDK and the 'commercial version' will follow soon. (unmentioned date reference.)

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348324)

LOL...I dont consider myself strongly pro or anti-Microsoft. However, I get such a kick at the idiot Microsoft haters on Slashdot who can't even admit when Microsoft does something right. If this were another link related to Windows security flaws there'd be 700 posts about Bill Gates being the anti-christ.

Slashdot users are supposed to be smart; smarter than childish fanboys/fangirls.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348372)

Actually, as far as misdirected hatred goes, Apple is the new MS. The anti-MS bias seems pretty listless these days, but try mentioning Apple, and it's a dorkfest of cluelessness.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35349906)

Actually, as far as misdirected hatred goes, Apple is the new MS. The anti-MS bias seems pretty listless these days, but try mentioning Apple, and it's a dorkfest of cluelessness.

It is interesting how this is mirroring, but trailing somewhat behind, the change in how these companies are being perceived in the industry from business partners having dealings with them. Outside people with obvious bias, many industry people are saying that it seems like Microsoft has learned a lesson and changed, being more easy to deal with, while Apple (and Google) are the new arrogant bastards on the block.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

betasam (713798) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348432)

The headline gives the impression that this is being done right now. The timeline also gives a hint of the level of commitment. Before the "promised" SDK, we've heard stories like http://www.next-gen.biz/features/hacking-kinect [next-gen.biz] -- So this response, whatever the spirit, is delayed. It is definitely not one of the "right" things Microsoft has done recently. (There may be others.)

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0, Redundant)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348698)

/. car analogy time. Let's say Microsoft sells cars. You open a car dealership down the road from Microsoft. Shortly thereafter you have several cars stolen and find them for sale on Microsoft's lot. You go to court to get your cars back and by the time it actually goes to trial the cars in question have already been sent to the junk yard they are so old. Microsoft pays you a small percentage of the money it cost you over the last 15 years to end the suite.

Meanwhile cars have evolved and now travel through tubes. Another company starts selling tube conversion kits for Microsoft and other cars. Microsoft caught off guard by the new tube cars buys a company that makes the tube conversions and starts giving them away for free all but killing the tube conversion market and destroying any competition for years.

Now they hire a mechanic who used to work on the competitions cars and say they are a new kinder gentler Microsoft and to please trust them when they say they no longer consider the competitor a virus.

I can't see why anyone would possibly doubt their sincerity /s

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348992)

BadAnalogyGuy is that you?

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35349802)

Someone forgot to take their pills.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1, Insightful)

migla (1099771) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349088)

Slashdot users are supposed to be smart; smarter than childish fanboys/fangirls.

(Now, I didn't read your parent, so maybe my comment doesn't apply exactly in this particular case, but I'd just like to make a general comment:)

Sometimes it's about freedom. Liking freedom is not just any kind of fandom. It's really important for real. Hating on MS in the name of freedom is not (necessarily) being a childish fan, IMO.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 3 years ago | (#35350526)

Slashdot users are supposed to be smart

No, slashdot users are supposed to be geeks and nerds, which is to say, obsessed with certain pop culture fetishes (Buffy, Star Wars, Monty Python, et. al.) and typically over-educated.

There's nothing inherently "smart" about geekiness or nerd-dom -- particularly with the devaluation of both terms in the past ten years ("Movie Nerd"? "Sports Geek"?).

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

j00r0m4nc3r (959816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35352434)

can't even admit when Microsoft does something right

I admit that it's the right thing to do, but I still don't respect MS for it. They are doing it for the wrong reasons, the PR/money aspects, not because they give a shit about the maker/hacker community. If you remember, their first reaction was to threaten people with lawsuits. Only when they realized it's bad PR to do that did they backpedal. Yes you can make money AND not be evil, but MS will never be that entity...

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

HappyPsycho (1724746) | more than 3 years ago | (#35354496)

While I agree with this somewhat, I'm more tempted to think Microsoft's stance is "if you can't beat them, join them" (The Kinect has been used in ways it wasn't intended almost from launch)

While I highly dislike Microsoft for the most part, I applaud this move though I'm not holding my breath that a non-Windows SDK will ever be released.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

Ramin_HAL9001 (1677134) | more than 3 years ago | (#35354998)

LOL...I dont consider myself strongly pro or anti-Microsoft. However, I get such a kick at the idiot Microsoft haters on Slashdot who can't even admit when Microsoft does something right.

Pro-Microsoft, anti-microsoft? The important thing is you've found a way to make yourself feel superior to both. (XKCD [xkcd.com] )

Except you fail to realize that Microsoft hasn't done anything right yet.

How quickly people forget why we never trust Microsoft. It might be free now, it might be helpful to geeks now, it might even seem like they are growing an open-source market now. But as soon as it you come to depend on it, then they pull the rug out from under you, using all those strings they've attached: raising the cost, eliminating functionality, restricting use to a few specific applications, or making it impossible to use with other open-source solutions. Then, for your naivety, you be forced to once again choose:
1. do you abandon years of work and experience with the Microsoft platform, bite the bullet and change over to the open source solution starting again from scratch?
OR
2. do you accept Microsoft's terms, buy their upgrades, scrap your plans for integration with other devices, and hope they don't eliminate any features you really liked?

"Fanboys?" Seriously, grow up.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (2)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348364)

Would you rather they clamped down on you?

What is it with people feeling entitled to everything right now, this second, immediately? Do MS really owe you this SDK?

Of course this is a good thing. Sheesh.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349416)

"What is it with people feeling entitled to everything right now, this second, immediately?"
Corporations have fed that to people for decades, so now it's entrenched, and they will pay with a loss of control.

And yes, this is better then 'clamping down' on people.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348520)

And this is a good thing? We still have to wait until spring for the 'early release' SDK and the 'commercial version' will follow soon. (unmentioned date reference.)

And presumably pay out the nose for the "right" to make commercial products. Or just use the open source drivers and make commercial products now.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348786)

Kinect is all about feudal control. If you do a personality analysis of Steve Ballmer, George W. Bush, and David Cameron you'll find they're all the same type of person. They talk about a glitzy future and being in it together but behind the froth their underlying drive is power of the most tribalistic form. They're also the most insanely bad managers you'll ever get. They're just bag carriers only fit for doing what their big business handlers tell them. They're natural bullies when given too much power and very petty. Change is all talk because the reality is this personality type handles change very, very badly. In almost every case study I've seen they almost always crash the company with major technology or business environment changes because they can't handle it.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (1)

skids (119237) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349056)

Hey it takes time to make up all those ReallyLongIdentifiersForThings, not to mention all the other work that goes into making the API a PITA and fill out 2K worth of actual code with 1M of redundant symbol tables.

Re:We are being kinectically assimilated (3, Interesting)

mikejuk (1801200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349742)

This isn't a good thing and it might even be a bad thing. There already is a semi official SDK from PrimeSense the people who made the Kinect hardware for MS - it just needs a tweek to work with the Kinect (an XML file). They also supply "middleware" to do jobs like body tracking and we have to wait to see what the MS SDK includes. FInally there is the interesting distinction between the non-comercial and commercial SDK - does this mean that anything I create using the non-commercial SDK can't be used commerciall and are they going to charge for the commercial SDK and take a cut from any apps that result? The point is that the semi-official SDK is open source so why bother with the Microsoft SDK with strings attached? I wrote all this up about a week ago but it was ignored by Slashdoters - shame on you :-) http://www.i-programmer.info/news/91-hardware/2030-official-kinect-sdk-who-needs-it.html [i-programmer.info] But it is clear that this is an attempt by MS to take over the Kinect party.

Microsoft is very open on this tech (2)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348308)

If someone had suggested hacking the Move for making cool new stuff, they'd probably already had all their computers seized while hordes of Sony lawyers darkened the skies above their home.

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (1)

AC-x (735297) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348490)

To be fair you can use Move happily on a PC and I don't remember Sony making a fuss about it http://code.google.com/p/moveonpc/ [google.com]

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (1)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348620)

Actually sony has expressed approval of such things. Hacking the Move is a vastly different beast then hacking the ps3. Hacking a move doesn't let you pirate games.

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (1)

matt_gaia (228110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348772)

Damn you AC-x for beating me to it. :)

I do say that is a rather nice false-equivalency you did start there, DM. If you remember right, and I'm assuming you don't reading that drivel you posted, but MS did the exact same thing with their JTag'ed consoles that Sony is doing now (PSN ban). If you go out and try to tell the world how to get around the PS3 security for your "homebrew" (read: piracy), they have the right to bring down hell on you. If you've noticed, the only people Sony are coming after are the douchebags like GeoHot who are openly challenging them.

Now that my rant's over, the reason that they (Sony/MS) don't really care about having an SDK for their controllers is that it's not going to screw with their revenue streams, e.g. game licenses, which in turn, isn't going to scare publishers away.

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348896)

No M$ just bans anyone they think has done something evil to their console from the Live network. I haven't heard of them raiding anyone's house and confiscating systems. Maybe M$ uses CIA instead of local police so we don't hear about it.....

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (2)

matt_gaia (228110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349084)

Oh, you mean something like this [arstechnica.com] ? Now granted, the prosecution still messed up the case, but the gist of it is MS went after modders as well. Chances are, any console make will go after someone distributing how to hack their system. If you're caught using said hack, they'll ban you; if you're distributing it, they'll send the lawyers. In general they don't care... it's all about their revenue stream from licensing.

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349040)

Telling people how to run software on a device they own is "openly challenging them"?

Your type of stupidity makes me want to start pirating games.

Re:Microsoft is very open on this tech (1)

matt_gaia (228110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349660)

Telling people how to run software on a device they own is "openly challenging them"?

No, but telling people how to break the existing security related to the IP/network that they own is. You don't like the terms that they make on their network, you can stay the hell off it.... you want to pirate their games out of your feigned spite, again, you can stay the hell off of PSN. If you honestly are naive enough to think that everything that has gone down has been about running homebrew, you're out of your damn mind. If anything more than 10% of the modded consoles get used for actual homebrew, that should probably considered a miracle. Sony already screwed themselves over with piracy on the PSP (I supposed everyone modded theirs exclusively for homebrew too, huh?), and do you honestly think they're going to let it happen again with their home console? Yeah, I didn't think so either.

90% of Kinect projects are made on Linux (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348358)

Microsoft is doing this ass-backwards.

Re:90% of Kinect projects are made on Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35351054)

possibkly true... but a x86 driver is easier to fiddle with and hack than code for a xbox360

The SDK is imbued with Microsoftian magnificence! (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348492)

(Though only for Academics & Enthusiasts)

Enthuse for Kinect!

Hidden Agenda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348650)

This is the same sort of bullish thing a creep like Steve Ballmer, George W. Bush, or David Cameron would do. The SDK for Kinect is just a marketing ploy by someone in Microsoft savvy enough to realise they'd look stupid doing a bigger u-turn later. Anyone who thinks they're doing it to help YOU succeed is sadly mistaken. It's just another way people like that get to set the agenda and get people to buy into the hype.

If Microsoft (like the Tories) really believed in quality, accessibility, and spreading wealth they'd open up the Kinect standard and port the SDK to all major platforms. It would be a standalone product that lived and died on its own merits in the market but that's not their game here. Their game is just to dangle bait so you don't buy the other guys stuff even if it's faster, cheaper, or better.

Get real people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35348836)

Microsoft's Kinect SDK is not equivalent in scope to Sony's recent war on Hackers.

If you make a device that has a USB connector on it, then chances are people are going to dabble with it so it makes sense to offer a proper SDK. Also I am sure that Microsoft will officially make Kinect work on Windows with PC games, just like the Xbox controller.

Trying to hack a console so it can play pirated games is not the same.

I am tired of infants crying foul over Sony's attempts to keep the PS3 secure and prevent rampant pirating of games. Sorry, if you can't afford a game, rent it, borrow it, ask your parents for more allowance, or get over it. Infants download free movies, games and music, period. Don't think you are owed the right to run pirated content just because you "own" a box. You are part of the reason why games, movies and music cost as much as they do. If everyone paid for that content, then the content would be significantly cheaper.

Sony offered an "other OS" feature and people just used it as a way to hack into the PS3. If people used it for the original intent of innovation and invention then it would still exist today, but it only takes one dumbass to ruin it for the rest of us.

Get over Sony's war on hackers. They have a legitimate right to keep the PS3 secure so that game developers won't abandon it as a game platform, like they way game developers have abandoned the PC because of rampant piracy. Sony has a commitment to content providers for the PS3 to ensure their content is protected, the Kinect, Move, or game controller is not a channel to piracy, where as encryption keys and firmware hacks are.

Microsoft has a commitment to try and draw PC game developers back, so making the Kinect work on PC is a valid and welcomed move.

Anyone drawing comparisons is vapidly unaware of reality.

Re:Get real people (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348998)

Sony offered an "other OS" feature and people just used it as a way to hack into the PS3. If people used it for the original intent of innovation and invention then it would still exist today, but it only takes one dumbass to ruin it for the rest of us.

Lots of people used it for the original purpose, the only real hacking was to get full access to the hardware. Sony is not your mother, you own your PS3 they should not be able to take back what they sold you. Sony was not forced by some bad person to do this, they chose to do this. I do not pirate games, but idiocy like the stuff you are spouting makes me want to start.

Re:Get real people (0)

kryliss (72493) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349992)

Not to mention go to a used game place and get it for 1/2 1/4 the price. Do you really need to play the newest game that comes out? Almost every one of my 360 games are used because I don't feel that $70 for a game is worth it to me.

Wow look at that collaboration with open source (-1, Troll)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35348874)

Maybe if you are going to pretend to collaborate with open source you could make a cross platform sdk or something. Thanks Microsoft for once again proving you are totally full of shit.

Re:Wow look at that collaboration with open source (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349356)

Oh shut the fuck up, if they donated a 10 billion dollars to OSS development with absolutely no strings attached you'd still bitch.

You simply hate MS and are too ignorant to realize you're incapable of making an accurate assessment of anything MS does because of that fact.

Re:Wow look at that collaboration with open source (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35352576)

I don't hate them at all. I just wish they would be more truthful. I invite any no-strings donations they wish to make. Hiring a guy to lie about their stance on FREE software is a terrible thing to do though.

Re:Wow look at that collaboration with open source (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349496)

Cross platform is not an indicator of Open Source Support. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. Also, you can have OS projects on Windows.

MS is becoming a big supporter of open source.

I know people won't ant to here this.
Background - I have used every OS MS has put out, and I am familiar with their history. Both with technology, and business. I have also worked with a variety of other operating systems.

MS today is vastly better then MS 10 years ago.
Win 7 is a really good operating system, The put a lot of money into open source, .net can be used on different platforms, and there business practices are improving.

So, in a lot of ways the MS of today doesn't deserve the hate generated from MS a decade ago.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be watched, or they are perfect.

Re:Wow look at that collaboration with open source (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35350484)

If the SDK was truly Open it could be easily made cross platform.

What are these other .NET platforms?

Re:Wow look at that collaboration with open source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35353074)

If the SDK was truly Open it could be easily made cross platform.

You seem like the usual slashdot loudmouth with zero technical knowledge so maybe these things are difficult for you to grasp. The *only* things that can be made cross platform are things that *can* be implemented on other platforms. For e.g. If your code requires the use of floating point arithmetic or specialized hardware you just cant port it to another platform that doesn't support it without massive code changes. Being Open has *nothing* to do with being cross-platform.

What are these other .NET platforms?

You are free to hire a developer and implement the .NET standard on any OS. Whats that? Oh.. you want others to pour in millions of dollars to hire labor and produce free stuff for you?

late to their own party (2)

danomatika (1977210) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349732)

Although I'm glad they aren't pulling a Sony with the hardware, saying "enthusiasts and academic researchers alike have expressed their excitement and intense interest" fails to recognize that those enthusiasts and researchers not only built a cross platform open source driver but have been pumping out projects left and right since November. They missed the boat as far as I'm concerned and "maybe" putting out a Windows-only SDK is too little too late. It would be better for them to sponsor freenect or OpenNI then to offer a platform specific 3rd solution. From what I've heard, their drivers were not so hot to begin with ...

Yo Microsoft! (4, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35349788)

Yo, Microsoft, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish; but the Kinect SDK has been in multiplaform release for months now, months now!

Re:Yo Microsoft! (1)

0ld_d0g (923931) | more than 3 years ago | (#35353092)

Thats true but being officially supported has its benefits too. For e.g. if they update the firmware to change the way the Kinect interfaces with the PC/XBOX, the SDK would be updated too. We don't have to wait for a generous hacker to reverse engineer the protocol again. IMO This will give a certain comfort level to academics to use the product in their projects.

Re:Yo Microsoft! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35369298)

Or don't update the firmware!?

Re:Yo Microsoft! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35354254)

Actually, it's been more of a multiplatform public alpha - we've yet to do a versioned release.

But yeah, funny. :)

Was already planned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35349868)

Before the Kinect even came out, Microsoft was planning on doing something similar to this. I went to a seminar in St. Louis where a Microsoft team member was talking about the Kinect. The seminar started with him showing how the Xbox 360 remote could work on the PC, with some applications, then he went on to talk about the Kinect and eventually linked the two ideas that the Kinect could very well end up working on the PC as the 360 remote does. Of course, it wasn't decided for sure at that point, but they had a pretty good idea it was going to happen.

So no, it's not just because it was hacked, it's because it was one of the ideas all along.

Sure beats how they started (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35350206)

Sure beats their initial response that had the threat of legal action against driver writers.

I guess they learned that once the cat is out of the bag the only thing the lawyers will do is earn you ill will.

Here's hoping this is the beginning of a kinder, gentler monopolist overlord.

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35353316)

Hmm, do you have your XBox Live ID ready? Are you ready to use a web-site where 'help' means describing the things you are seeing on the screen? Ready to download unclear and overweight APIs?

I just hope the patents on this tech. aren't going to stop other people doing it properly once MS flushes themselves down the toilet again.

unofficial SDK out now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35354366)

there is a unofficial SDK :) it came out yesterday check it out
kinect SDK [kinecthacks.nl]

Kinect SDK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35449862)

A company from Belgium claims they have written their own SDK, you can read more about it here kinect SDK [kinecthacks.nl] i read that you need to be a student or a developer to obtain a copy.

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