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Reminiscing Old School Linux

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the the-ghost-of-builds-past dept.

Linux 539

t14m4t writes "While the Linux experience has improved dramatically over the years (remember the days of Kernel version 2.0? or even 1.2?), Tech Republic revisits some of the more-fondly-remembered artifacts of the Linux of years past. From the article: 'Of all the admin tools I have used on Linux, the one I thought was the best of the best was linuxconf. From this single interface, you could administer everything — and I mean EVERYTHING — on your Linux box. From the kernel on up, you could take care of anything you needed. With the dumbing down of the Linux operating system (which was actually a necessity for average user acceptance), tools like this have disappeared. It’s too bad. An admin tool like this was ideal for serious administrators and users.'"

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I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (3, Interesting)

intellitech (1912116) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364092)

When anyone thought of the operating system, they thought of Linus.

As a casual linux user, I believe it to still be the case, regardless of what your fluff might say.

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364420)

When I see Linux, I think fat 30 year old lonely virgins who still live at home with mummy.

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (0)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364484)

I was going to make a snide "fixed it for you" riposte about Macs, but then I wondered if the concept of a homosexual virgin was analogous (Huh huh, I said "anal". Heh heh, and "log") to the idea of a catholic atheist.

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (1)

TheABomb (180342) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364506)

Hey! I'm only 29!

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (1, Offtopic)

scrib (1277042) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364520)

When I see Linux, I think fat 30 year old lonely virgins who still live at home with mummy.

Aw, does belittling others help you feel better about your choice of OS? You must be a Mac user...
You can't spell "Mac" without "AC!"

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (1)

AresTheImpaler (570208) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364652)

Pot, meet kettle....

Aw, does belittling others help you feel better about your choice of OS? You must be a Mac user

I still remember the nightmares I had after trying to get the stupid winmodem to work.. FFFFUUU!!

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (2)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364534)

when i see mircosoft, i think 80 year olds trying to use a computer but end up make themselves a zombie computer to 2 or 3 botnets
when i see apple, i think soiled brats who listen to justin beaver or the disney band of the year

as someone w/ a windows computer and an ipod, this is far from the case and i know it despite what i actually think

get over ur stereotype`s that everyone has

Re:I see Linux, I think Linus. Must be the names. (1)

jimmydevice (699057) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364666)

"Soiled" returns `"do not want" in GIS.

what? linuxconf? (1, Troll)

burne (686114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364150)

the best of the best was linuxconf

What's that? Something to replace vi with a GUI?

(15 years experience as an admin, never came across it)

Re:what? linuxconf? (4, Informative)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364186)

Linux conf: http://tinyurl.com/4jfae7f [tinyurl.com]

From wikipedia:

Linuxconf is a configurator for the Linux operating system. It features different user interfaces: a text interface, a web interface and a GTK interface. Currently, most Linux distributions consider it deprecated compared to other tools such as Webmin, the system-config-* tools on Red Hat Enterprise Linux/Fedora, drakconf on Mandriva, YaST on openSUSE and so on. Linuxconf was deprecated from Red Hat Linux in version 7.1 in April 2001.

Re:what? linuxconf? (0, Redundant)

burne (686114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364220)

helpful comment

You would'nt recognise a troll when it sat on your face and farted, right?

g,d&r

Re:what? linuxconf? (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364252)

Oh touche, my friend. Consider me zinged.

Re:what? linuxconf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364604)

I'm willing to sit on your face and take a shit if you want to test that theory.

Re:what? linuxconf? (2)

assantisz (881107) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364202)

Yeah, that was weird. In some bullet point the author is missing the times when Linux was "hard" to install and in another he is missing tools like linuxconf. No UNIX admin needs configuration tools to do his/her job. All you need is vi.

Re:what? linuxconf? (1)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364248)

True dat. No linuxconf in Slackware.

Re:what? linuxconf? (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364562)

linuxconf was the crappiest piece of shit I have ever seen and im glad its dead and gone.

DEAL

I remember a friend racking up a huge phone bill.. (2)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364158)

...dialing into the University of Helsinki BBS line to download early Linux disk images. Horrendous international calling fees.

Re:I remember a friend racking up a huge phone bil (3, Funny)

burne (686114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364176)

Horrendous international calling fees.

I fondly remember a $1700 bill. And the shit I went through to pay it. Working double shifts and shit.

Re:I remember a friend racking up a huge phone bil (2)

olsmeister (1488789) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364542)

Damn. You could have FLOWN to Helsinki....

ZMODEN, my friend --- ZMODEM (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364442)

Should have used ZMODEM [wikipedia.org] .

Re:ZMODEN, my friend --- ZMODEM (1)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364526)

I'm fairly certain he did. I doubt he would have used Kermit - and as long as the UofH supported ZMODEM, I'm sure that's what he would have used. We were both BBSers, so we knew how to transfer files.

Linuxconf (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364164)

I must agree - that was a fantastic tool. I remember being upset when it disappeared (Red Hat 8 dropped it I believe?).

Re:Linuxconf (5, Insightful)

nhaines (622289) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364194)

I never had the pleasure of using it. However, making things easier in Linux isn't "dumbing down" the operating system. It's simply making things more accessible. Done properly, the fancy GUI stuff just snaps together with the existing CLI and config file stuff and then you get to choose the most appropriate way to manage and configure your system. That's a win for absolutely everyone.

And that's what will keep Linux competitive--the ability to meet novice computer users alongside having the power and the efficiency for die-hard CLI lovers.

Re:Linuxconf (2)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364264)

I agree with that. There is a difference between making easier and dumbing down. I'm all for making things easier, but, I can't stand when something is dumbed down.

Re:Linuxconf (3, Informative)

burne (686114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364272)

And that's what will keep Linux competitive--the ability to meet novice computer users alongside having the power and the efficiency for die-hard CLI lovers.

Don't worry. linuxconf is every bit as capable as vi of emacs with regards to fucking up your fresh linux install. It's the user, not the interface, who makes the mistakes.

Re:Linuxconf (3, Insightful)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364350)

Depends on what you consider easier. IIS 6 to IIS 7 decentralized an assload of config from a handful of possible locations to dozens of different applets, advanced settings sidebars, etc, and most of it isn't the most descriptive as to what settings may be contained within. Not using Linuxconf, I can't say for sure if what replaced it was better, but changing something for the sake of changing it isn't always good.

Re:Linuxconf (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364580)

Linuxconf was awful for one reason: it kept its own config files instead of just manipulating the basic system ones like AIX's smitty would do.

Re:Linuxconf (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364708)

That definitely tripped me up the first time I tried tweaking some conf files myself, then going back to Linuxconf later for something else, and those changes via vi being overwritten.

Re:Linuxconf (2)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364694)

I don't consider myself an old-school Linux user, but maybe I'm just in denial, because I remember Linuxconf fondly. I came to Linux a few years before Why-Too-Kay with a little experience as a Unix user but mostly as a WinDOS tech, and Linuxconf was an invaluable set of training wheels as I learned to set up Apache and Sendmail and BIND on the first *n*x system where I had root. I mostly use vi these days (and Webmin for daemons that I'm not as familiar with), but if it weren't for Linuxconf to get me rolling with Linux, I might have suffered through Windows admin-ing for a few more years (at least until OS X Server came along).

Old School (5, Informative)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364166)

On behalf of the many gentoo, arch, and slackware users, I'd like to point out that "old school Linux" is alive and well and more capable than ever, thanks.

Re:Old School (5, Funny)

couchslug (175151) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364348)

"On behalf of the many gentoo, arch, and slackware users"

What versions of Ubuntu are THOSE? (runs)

Re:Old School (5, Funny)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364572)

What versions of Ubuntu are THOSE?

Re-compilin' Ricer, Distro Du-Jour and Configuration Clusterfuck, respectively.

Re:Old School (1)

vanquished (983173) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364594)

never any mod points when needed... Enjoy my good wishes for your health and happiness through the internet.

Re:Old School (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364650)

maybe they're from mint instead, not everything comes from ubuntu; like debian its COMPLETELY separate from ubuntu

Re:Old School (4, Funny)

magarity (164372) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364512)

On behalf of the many gentoo, arch, and slackware users, I'd like to point out that "old school Linux" is alive and well and more capable than ever, thanks.

Slackware is old school. Gentoo is ricer.

Re:Old School (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364586)

slackware combines the old with the new: kde4 with all of the bells and whistles and all of the customization of the underlying OS that you could dream of.

although, if you don't feel like doing all of that you certainly do not have to. that's why i love slackware.

(posting anon to preserve modding)

"Dumbing Up" (5, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364168)

I absolutely abhor the phrase "dumbing down" when used in this context.

Linux used to be something used by a tiny minority of people who were primarily interested in hard-core computer science testing and research. It was their playground in which they could work their art. By making it more user-friendly, it has gotten it into the hands of people who are brilliant in other ways so that they can work their art. Are you a graphics guru? A UI wiz? A scripting genius? A music prodigy? A 3D design master? A business star? A poet laureate? If so, then Linux is now for you, too!

It hasn't been "dumbing down" anything. If anything, it has been dumbing up--more and more people using it in smarter and smarter ways.

And the beauty of the situation? If you're a hard-core computer scientist wanting to do testing and research with new stuff, it's still there for you, too [kernel.org] .

Re:"Dumbing Up" (3, Insightful)

Baseclass (785652) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364266)

poppycock! I don't need your fancy schmancy graphical user interfaces and widgets.
Back in my day we did everything via CLI and we liked it..
Lynx is still the best browser out there.
Now get off my lawn!

Re:"Dumbing Up" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364316)

Exactly. No one forces you to use the GUI. You can still have a linux box without X installed (The horror! I know!). But you don't have to, and that's the point. I've been using Linux for close to 10 years now and things are always getting better. I've had far more problems admining windows boxes in that time for fuck's sake.

Re:"Dumbing Up" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364374)

couldn't agree more.... nowadays I see some said tech wizes which just cannot stand upon the fact their beloved system is at reach of anyone.
Linux has left its restrict status and I don't see downturn on that - maybe it ought to be destructive to some egoes.

Re:"Dumbing Up" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364476)

A business star?

They use Windows with Microsoft Office.

Dumbing down makes higher complexity (4, Informative)

r6144 (544027) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364492)

Command-line tools usually have very well-documented configuration files, and even when they break, debugging is relatively easy.

Now we often have configuration files (e.g. font configuration and internal stuff used by many GUI applications) spread over many poorly-documented locations. If the GUI is not enough or is buggy, which is often the case, it is quite hard to diagnose the issue even for an experienced user like me.

After all, it usually takes much more work to design and program an acceptable GUI than a CLI with similar usability, at least for frequently-used software and users who can either type fast or do simple scripting. Developer time is scarce, so GUI tools are bound to lag behind in features, stability, usability, etc., and the world is complicated enough that a lot of effort is still needed to make things work at all.

Re:"Dumbing Up" (2, Interesting)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364578)

I have 10+ years of experience as a Unix sysadmin, and that article was a serious WTF.

1 - Linuxconf is nothing but old school. I am old school, and I rarely leave my emacs session. Linuxconf was a dumbed down, braindead tool, one of many. Certainly not old school.
2 - Computing is always a challenge, if he has lost that, it's because he stopped looking for new challenges, or maybe all he wanted was a working printer. In any case, I find more challenges now when I have to use one of the automatic-for-the-people distros like Ubuntu, and I ran into something that just doesn't work, and debugging is nearly impossible because everything is done in some crappy non-standard way, using DBs instead of config files, and everything is hidden from the user
3 - WTF. Just WTF.
4 - Install fests where anything but fun. We did them because we had to. Because we were trying to spread the word. We spent an entire saturday giving free tech support to ungrateful idiots, ended the day totally screwed up and tired like we just ran a marathon, then we got drunk and went home. Good ridance.
5 - The author manages to sound like a gay and nerdy twilight fan talking about his heroes. Torvalds is a jerk, if you want to look up to someone, think of RMS, he actually has made countless sacrifices so that we can have all the free software we enjoy everyday, and he actually funded the community that helped Linus get his kernel done, and provided the compiler, tools and the motherfucking rest of the OS.
6 - Last time I checked, I was still running X11 (Xorg) and a WM (Gnome).
7 - Wow, the gayness is back.
8 - The community never wanted games. We wanted GPL games, if anything. Loki was trying to pollute our beautiful environment with privative crap, and it's a good thing it's dead.
9 - I use Chrome with the emacs extension, typing this in emacs. Your editor is still inferior. Enjoy your beeping.
10 - That's probably one of the biggest issues of GNU/Linux. The grand reunification of all the efforts is going to come, eventually, but in the meantime, less distros is a very good thing for everybody.

I dunno (2)

atomicbutterfly (1979388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364174)

I don't miss the "challenge" one bit. If you're up for a challenge there are plenty of barebones and expert-friendly distros out there to cut your teeth over. However, things have progressed enough that if you're not prepared to use up what little free time you have tinkering around with shit to get it to work, we now have a lot more friendly options for people who want to actually USE their computers to do something useful.

TFA author misses his old life... (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364238)

I gotta agree -- Linux can be as simple or flexible as you want it to be. It's just a matter of your choice of distribution. This guy's post seems to be more a lament of how simple is life used to be. As in, he used to have time to screw around with linux all the time -- now he has to spend his time actually producing, rather than having an excuse to tinker...

Re:TFA author misses his old life... (2)

peragrin (659227) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364482)

And that is the true reason behind the story.

Every thing is always better way back when. When women stayed in the kitchens, your slaves did your gardening, and you had hours and hours of free time to do nothing but smoke weed, drink, and talk about the good old days.

Not casting stones (2)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364514)

Hey, believe me: nostalgia is my friend. I recently bought a new computer and dual-boot windows and FreeBSD on it. Frankly, I have no reason to have FreeBSD. I'm not a developer or system administrator and I find web browsing in the Unix environment to be a pain in the neck -- flash crashes the browser, etc.

The only reason that I ever installed Linux in the first place was because I had a computer without a license and could not afford to buy Windows 95. If that computer had a working OS installed, I never would have installed Linux.

Anyway, I installed FreeBSD for the hell-of-it, and not without some degree of frustration. My wife noted this and said "You just love to screw up your computer and fix it, don't you?" The answer: Yeah, basically I do.

Re:Not casting stones (1)

scrib (1277042) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364712)

My wife noted this and said "You just love to screw up your computer and fix it, don't you?" The answer: Yeah, basically I do.

Uninteresting story: a screwed up computer was how I knew to leave law school. I worked as a software engineer for more than a decade before I decided to investigate one of my life's other interests: law. I really enjoyed studying it, but there were certain aspects I didn't like so much, like writing papers. One day, in the middle of a paper, my desktop hard drive died. I had backups, of course, and I had a laptop with a version of the paper that was less than an hour old. I was faced with a decision: continue working on the paper on the laptop or drive to a shop to get a new hard drive and restore my desktop to its former glory.
The paper was late and I withdrew from law school right before the end of my first semester and went back to software. It was really wonderful to KNOW that I was doing what was best for me.

Before that, I overheard a woman in the lounge lamenting that her computer died (someone spilled water in her keyboard). I offered to help and she accepted, though she was worried. Right there in the lounge I whipped out a couple tools from my bag and removed her hard drive. Apparently, law students are impressed by that kind of thing. (What, you DON'T carry screwdrivers to class?!) I recovered all her data and she didn't miss a beat in class.

Off topic? Isn't this reminiscing about old school? I guess my point is that I'm with you on the love of fixing what's not right. As Red Green says "if it ain't broke, you're not tryin'!"

Yggdrasil just worked, no tinkering ... (1)

perpenso (1613749) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364690)

I don't miss the "challenge" one bit. If you're up for a challenge there are plenty of barebones and expert-friendly distros out there to cut your teeth over. However, things have progressed enough that if you're not prepared to use up what little free time you have tinkering around with shit to get it to work, we now have a lot more friendly options for people who want to actually USE their computers to do something useful.

Actually Yggdrasil plug and play linux (early to mid 90s) just worked, no tinkering. Graphics, sound, etc just came up working like Windows on my 486 DX2-66. I didn't understand all the bitching and moaning until I tried other distributions. Sadly it was many years before other distros achieved a comparable installation and setup experience.

I started using Linux around Kernel 0.96 or so (3, Informative)

thomasdz (178114) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364196)

I downloaded the boot & root FLOPPIES and that's how I got online with Linux back in 1992

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux/browse_thread/thread/3e0f1f1f1e33e1fe/a4f297acaa54597e?hl=en&q=dzubin+linux#a4f297acaa54597e [google.com]

Re:I started using Linux around Kernel 0.96 or so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364440)

so then , how about an interesting, insightful, funny or underrated comment instead of you just hammering your stake into the ground ?

Remember 1.2? I remember 0.12! (2)

mark-t (151149) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364200)

V0.12 was the first version of Linux that I had played with... a full installation with all kinds of stuff fit on something like 6 3.5" floppy disks.

LINUX... (1)

GillyGuthrie (1515855) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364204)

Doesn't rhyme with Linus and has a million flavors.

Pity about the skills decline (2)

warp_kez (711090) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364232)

I remember having to type "make config && make zImage && make install" just to get a kernel to work. Everything was done from the command line, nothing was ever done in a GUI.

Wanted to install a package, you had to search for all the dependencies and their dependencies whilst praying that there would be no Exit error at the end of the compilation.

Linux users now have it far too easy, just hook into a repository for your distro and let it do the work for you.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364256)

Yup. We're spoiled. Really. We go run something else like Windows and MacOS and get annoyed when something isn't as automated.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (2)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364296)

I miss "make dep" and "make mrproper" from the kernel building process.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364308)

Wanted to install a package, you had to search for all the dependencies and their dependencies whilst praying that there would be no Exit error at the end of the compilation.

I learned an extremely valuable lesson about what I wanted out of my computer about 8 weeks after I installed RedHat Linux 5.0 from a CD in the back of a book at age 16: don't trust RPMs to do it all for you. It's way, way better now, of course -- package management systems a la FreeBSD, Slackware, and Debian -- gotta admit, I know nothing about Fedora or Ubantu -- but back then I remember trying to install GTK 1.2, which is a total pain because GTK 1.1 -- or some other earlier version; it's hazy -- was required by somethings I had installed via RPM. What a disaster...

Anyway, the lesson -- either compile and "make install" everything or use the package manager for everything.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (2)

ulzeraj (1009869) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364372)

Used to avoid such problems by building RPM's of compiled sources. It's also great to keep track of installed from sources stuff.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (2)

dakohli (1442929) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364366)

I remember taking all night to compile a kernel. It was fun at the time, but lets get serious here - Linux has matured to the point where almost anybody can install and run it without too much hassle, at least compared to any other mainstream OS. Don't forget a lot of work has gone into the various repositories that are available, if you want to "kick it old school" feel free. I cut my teeth on Slackware 3.5. I have paid my dues. But really, why should anyone one pay?

I run mint now, find it easy and quick to install. I like the fact that I don't have to get into the nitty gritties. I just don't have the time to fiddle with all the little bits.

How about we all get on the bandwagon? Linux is as easy to use as Windows, and as a point of fact tends to run much better on older hardware.

Lets throw off the old way was better, and get on with the new way.

My two cents.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (1)

Yunzil (181064) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364400)

Linux is as easy to use as Windows

By what metric?

Re:Pity about the skills decline (1)

tnk1 (899206) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364460)

Linux beats Windows for command line ease of use every time.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (3, Interesting)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364636)

With powershell I'm not 100% certain that's true any more.

Having true OO based outputs from commands instead of having to split on tabs/pipe characters/etc is much easier, less prone to error, and more portable across upgrades (ps changing its default column order won't break all of your scripts if you're talking to a process object with well defined properties, etc).

Re:Pity about the skills decline (1)

dakohli (1442929) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364472)

OK, I download it, install it in about an hour. I don't have to mess with any settings. Drivers are downloaded in a similar manner to Windows 7. I have not had any crashes in recent memory. I use a variety of user-friendly applications, many of which are identical to their Windows counterparts.

In fact it may be easier than windows.

I will give you this: Games are well supported, but for the average user who uses a web browser, word processor and listens to music, hey it's all there.

I am not saying we should all run out and switch, but if you want to, you can.

Re:Pity about the skills decline (0)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364698)

I cut my teeth on Slackware 3.5

What exactly is "I cut my teeth on"? Consider: is there any normal course of action in the business of mankind during which a person willingly cuts their teeth? We have these fantastical horror stories about warriors in ancient barbarian tribes filing their teeth for the purpose of rending and tearing the enemy to pieces and appearing ferocious. Do you really believe that? By the time mankind is able to fashion metal weaponry there is really no purpose for filing teeth, if ever there was.

You are using an expression which is derived from "I was cut by the teeth" which is an inside joke against those servant classes who believe that the covenant of circumcision involves mutilating the genitalia of the males. In reality the practice of mutilating male genitalia is a psychological control technique meant to give the servant classes a psychological complex and render them susceptible to Asmodeus. Asmodeus is the demon in the book of Tobit who visits newlyweds and causes the male to falter in his participation. The bride, not understanding what could possibly be the problem, is then left disappointed and second-guessing her choice of a husband. This makes the bride available for the archangel Raphael who sends the dejected and self-conscious husband to the front of the caravan while Raphael goes to console the bride.

The expression and concept of being "cut" was originally a trapping of manhood. Cut by the knife, as in circumcised mutilation? No. That is the sign of a servant. A real man is "cut by the teeth" (not "cut my teeth on") as in being bitten by the teeth of a woman's inside voice.

The real covenant of circumcision is the overheated spot on the lips formed by the temple acolyte hitting the opium pipe too aggressively. As the burn heals it leaves a circular area which, if removed improperly, is exceptionally painful--priests are supposed to be able to withstand pain which also makes them ready to be "cut by the teeth" of a woman's inside voice without suddenly pulling away in surprise with the possibility of pulling the teeth out.

This is also the reason for epidurals. Women who opt for the epidural during the birthing process have less control over their birthing mechanism and are unlikely to notice their own teeth falling out--women who do not opt for the epidural stand a larger chance of keeping all or some of their inside voice teeth. This continues to serve as a control technique. Many of the women do not even know of their own teeth and, while everyone is kept in the dark (so to speak), then we do not have women making men out of servants.

This is also why hunters are trained not to shoot Bambi, doe tags are monitored, and we encourage hunters to take their kills to a proper butcher--we do not want servants finding all of the missing parts which are carefully glossed over in government accredited educational institutions.

People have bad memories.. (3, Informative)

bored (40072) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364282)

Linuxconf was cool, but it had some major holes. I'm here to tell you that Yast by the nature of having far more modules, is a _MUCH_ better solution.

I love the command line (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364314)

No matter which distro I use, I can rely on the fact that all Linices are POSIX compliant.

It is important that most users can rely on 'pointy-clickey' methods. That creates a bigger user community. OTOH, there will also be those who need more; even though they will always be the minority.

While I haven't done a cluster yet, I have done everything else from embedded up. Old school Linux lives because it is useful/necessary once you leave the bounds of your favorite distro.

yggdrasil (1)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364352)

The tree of life

Re:yggdrasil (1)

stigmato (843667) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364658)

Is that you, Het Masteen?

For me... (1)

GMC-jimmy (243376) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364356)

linuxconf broke more than it fixed. I had only tried it a handful of times at the urgings of other enthusiasts. I hated having to undue all of the errors it would make on my machine. The idea was great but I still think its just not possible to make a one-size be-all-to-beat-all admin tool for every distro without messing something up somewhere.

I see selecting a linux distro to be kind of like getting married. Sure there are plenty of general rules of thumb that can help you achieve a successful marriage. But those alone aren't enough. You have to get to know your own spouse and their unique needs.

oh god.. my ego... it might burst (4, Funny)

digitalsushi (137809) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364362)

I'm probably the person on slashdot who has used linux the longest... yes, redhat goes all the way back to 5.2. I remember learning about NAT when splitting the ethernet with a Y jack didnt get me two internets (i expected a little fade, was all.) Radioshack didnt sell Ethernet signal boosters at the time.

I always get a little upset when someone tells me they are "an expert" at linux, and then tell me they use an old distro full of security holes. A modern ubuntu is going to have way better security because it's new. Further, older linux kernels actually cause damage to the internet with trace levels of malignant packets, from protocols days gone by. http 1.0 is a common example of this, consider the fleets of cloud servers running web 2.0 that have to strain with a hefty http 1.0 connection from a netscrape 4.0 web browser on linux 5.0.

I am glad that threads like this raise awareness ... I just hope that some people reading this post realize that, even though they have been a linux user for 25, 30 years, that maybe just maybe they missed a few boats on the way. Most experts are not even running 2.6 kernels yet, which support IPv6 router advertisements. These RAs, as they are called, will configure the new Internet rapidly and I pray linux experts are not left in the dust when they dont get their autoconf info.

Re:oh god.. my ego... it might burst (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364444)

[notsureifserious.jpg]

Re:oh god.. my ego... it might burst (1)

perlchild (582235) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364474)

The people who have used Linux the longest on slashdot would surely remember a time before Red Hat, let alone a late version like 5.2.

Re:oh god.. my ego... it might burst (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364556)

That's really funny. I'm pretty sure it was intended to be. Still hope it gets modded down, but it's funny.

My favorite old school linux memory... (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364364)

In the 1.2 kernel days, there was a really irritating bug that took forever to get fixed. The problem was that it would often not let you shut the system down or reboot until you deleted a file: /etc/shutdownpid

Very strange, but knowing that little factoid certainly impressed some people who actually knew a lot more about Linux than I did. :)

Re:My favorite old school linux memory... (2)

Rufty (37223) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364670)

Used to freak out people when I did # cat vmlinuz > /dev/fd0 to make a boot disk.

Hmmph (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364396)

Linux STILL sucks. Dumbed-down or not.

Re:Hmmph (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364532)

That's not what your momma said last night!

Linuxconf is oldschool linux? (2)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364408)

Seriously?

So what does that make me? I switched to FreeBSD from Linux before linuxconf even existed.

I'm pretty sure they guy writing it has no clue what 'old school' Linux actually was, he just seems to want something obscure and hard to use. Sounds more like a recently added fanboy than a long term user.

Do you remember Linux BEFORE X worked on it, let alone anything like GTK/KDE was a glimmer in someones eye.

Who ARE You? (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364426)

You're the guy that says that Rock and Roll stopped in the 70s. Give it a rest. Linux in 1997 is old-school, believe it or not. If you really think that Linux -- or FreeBSD -- for that matter is the same as it was in 1997, you're not paying attention.

Re:Who ARE You? (1)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364536)

70s? There was rock and roll in the 70s? Didn't it die in 1969?

Re:Who ARE You? (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364654)

I think the OP is correct.

And as a FYI, rock and roll didn't die in the 70s. Everyone who's anyone (BSD users) knows that rock and roll died in the early 90s when the Pixies broke up.

Re:Linuxconf is oldschool linux? (1)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364446)

Hard to imagine that with such a high UID.

Re:Linuxconf is oldschool linux? (2)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364540)

Says the n00b. :-P

Re:Linuxconf is oldschool linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364576)

Because geting a slashdot account is the very frist thing a new born do...

Minicom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364414)

pppd -d -detach /dev/modem & :)

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be (4, Insightful)

DragonHawk (21256) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364428)

I miss not having 42 daemons running in the background to do stuff that could simply be a library or utility loaded/run when needed.

I miss having the init system being a robust, straight-forward process of calling shell scripts in sequence.

I miss only needing to reboot for kernel updates [launchpad.net] .

I miss having one sound subsystem that never worked, rather than countless sound daemons which never work.

I miss having my immediately-after-logon process list fit in a single 80x25 terminal window.

I miss not having everything complain that DBUS isn't running.

I miss the Unix philosophy [wikipedia.org] .

It seems like Linux is just as good as MS Windows these days. Too bad. I liked it when Linux was an improvement over MS Windows.

Re:Nostalgia ain't what it used to be (1)

jewelie (752077) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364612)

Yowsers. You've so put me off installing Linux again in future. Mind you, this all exemplifies why I got out of programming. Stopped being a purely logic game, stopped being fun.

Re:Nostalgia ain't what it used to be (1)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364706)

Hummm... difficult post to mod:
+1 insightful?
+1 funny?
+1 get-off-my-lawn?

Social Network (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364432)

Did anyone else get a sense of nostalgia when watching the 2003-era gnome-based system that Mark used in the Social Network (gasp, Ubuntu wasn't around yet -- or if it was, nobody knew about it)

Hehe I remember starting a blog about the Gore-Bush elections on mandrake-based system which had some old version of Mozilla installed, like 0.6. But even that was using the 2.2 kernel, I'm afraid.

I think I'll have to hand in my geek card, for never having used a Linux 2.0-based system.

Some things change, some things don't (1)

subk (551165) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364456)

I stand by Vi. I still use E16 on all my desktops. I still use WM Dockapps. Hell, I still use BitchX, even. This will probably never change for me, as long as these tools still compile and run! I really miss hearing Linus' "pronunciation of Linux" sound-byte when setting up sound cards. However, I do NOT miss making boot floppies. I don't miss Linuxconf either, as it (in my eyes) started the trend towards huge, nasty config files. As for the "dumbing down" of Linux, I went the other way and started using things distros like Gentoo that keep the "old school" Linux feel..

Good bloody riddance (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364522)

there, I said it

Jamie Zawinski begs to differ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364528)

See: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2005/10/06.html

As for me, I do not miss the old days, where getting a Voodoo Banshee to work required dirty text editing in xf86config, mucking around with DRI and Mesa and whatnot.

true (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364608)

Reminiscent of seeing Mandrake Linux on the shelves of bookstores and Walmart. ... and when KDE worked.

You can still do some of this stuff. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364624)

Remember when the Linux desktop consisted of X Windows and then a window manager on top of that — and nothing more? Sure, you can still have that if you install the likes of FluxBox or E16. But for the most part, the days of the window manager-only desktop have gone the way of everything else on this list — b’bye.

Uh. My ~/.xsessionrc file, in its entirety: wmaker. And no, I wasn't given GNOME or KDE or anything at install time, because I didn't ask for it. No one is stopping you from doing this, people are just using sissy configurations and distributions where the default is idiot mode.

The word is "ABOUT" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35364626)

I like reminiscing old school Linux, but I'm more interested in protesting people accidentally a couple things.

Meh (3, Insightful)

smpierce (568838) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364630)

I for one, don't really miss the 'good old days' of downloading 28 or so floppies of SLS over a 14k modem, only to find that disk 7 has a error when you're attempting an install. Or working days on writing and tweaking an xconfig file. I admit, the excitement of running this 'cool new OS' is gone, but it is infinitely more usable so now I can actually get my work done.

Infomagic CDs. (2)

hamster_nz (656572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364632)

In the days before broadband and cheap CD-R drives Linux updates used to come from Infomagic on CDs.

I would eagerly await when the local computer store would get this quarterly update of "shovel-ware" CDs, and hidden in it would be a gem, the six-CDs-in-a-box of Linux, and maybe a Slackware distro too.

I was sort of like having a geek Christmas every season, heading home and reading the package list, trying everything out, seeing what new drivers were now in the Kernel so I could get a better VGA card. And then one had DOOM on Linux!

All that pent up anticipation has now disappeared - I hate you yum!

mmmm all nighter hair pulling compile time wasting (1)

davcorp (465418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364648)

I cut my teeth on Slackware .9 something that I had to download on an OS/2 box I had built.. yes.... OS/2... I had to download the floppies.. no ISO image at the time... I think eventually they allowed a generic TFTP or FTP session to download all the dependencies but that wasn't until years later and even on Dialup, it took hours... God, I can remember having to know ABSOLUTELY what hardware was inside the system I built.. I mean EVERYTHING in order to compile the kernel proper... and then after hours of work and Q&A with the config, you'd get the dreaded kernel panic.... Then back to the drawing board... Yeah, it was an effing nightmare, but man did I learn a lot... and I don't recall getting much sleep. Once Lynx was installed and vi and pine (do they still make pine?) I was set... But don't get me started on X-windows and Trident video drivers... I will start swinging....

I also remember (fondly) at some point in the compilation process (in verbose) I think I saw a mention of killing Kenny.. and the term, My God, they killed Kenny! You Bastards!

fun times! (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364684)

My favorite part was recompiling the kernel to get mouse support.

Challenge (2)

cos(0) (455098) | more than 3 years ago | (#35364688)

I have to chuckle at this:

I know this is counterintuitive, but there are days I really miss the challenge (and the ensuing celebration) of old-school Linux. Back in the day, getting Linux installed gave many users reason to shout their own variation of “Hoorah” to the clouds.

The challenge is there, if you venture out of in-kernel drivers and supported install scenarios. Yesterday I spent three hours trying to get Linux set up on my new HP Pavilion dm1z -- and I consider myself a competent Linux user.

It took me a little while to set up LVM with the root filesystem managed by LVM. Documentation for configuring GRUB for LVM isn't great, and in some places on the web is outright wrong. Fine, got that. Next, the wireless card is unsupported. To get it to work, you must get the driver from the manufacturer (who fortunately advertises Linux support), then apply patches to it from other sources to get the driver to compile with my kernel version. None of this is documented in one place -- different forums have various snippets that inch me forward. Believe me, I shouted "Hoorah" once I finally spilled enough sweat to get it to work. (After I got this to work, I wrote my own step-by-step instructions to save others the pain.)

Once I got past the wireless issues, I started X and determined that the Synaptics touchpad is misconfigured -- the hardware is touch-sensitive on the physical buttons, so pressing a touchpad button also moves the mouse. The issue appears to be fixed [launchpad.net] , but it hasn't made it into the version of xf86-input-synaptics that Gentoo has. I had to clone the git repo of that driver, build it myself, and manually set up the rule that masks that area of the touchpad. And even now, it still doesn't work correctly. Now I don't move the mouse when I click, but I also cannot click and drag -- once I click, the cursor is fixed. Now this Linux user is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Challenges still abound, even on the most modern Linux kernel and distributions... just dare to venture out of the entrenched and supported hardware.

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