Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Doom Creator Says Direct3D Is Now Better Than OpenGL

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the changing-horses dept.

Graphics 405

arcticstoat writes "First-person shooter godfather and OpenGL stickler John Carmack has revealed that he now prefers Direct3D to OpenGL, saying that 'inertia' is the main reason why id Software has stuck by the cross-platform 3D graphics API for years. In a recent interview, the co-founder of id Software said, 'I actually think that Direct3D is a rather better API today.' He added, 'Microsoft had the courage to continue making significant incompatible changes to improve the API, while OpenGL has been held back by compatibility concerns. Direct3D handles multi-threading better, and newer versions manage state better.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

DirectX (1, Interesting)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455632)

It's been true for almost 10 years. In fact Microsoft's support for DirectX has always been better than what OpenGL had. Microsoft made it easy to use with all their programming tools and languages and had a great documentation. The API was always cleaner too. There were tons of books written for DirectX. This is the area Microsoft handles extremely well - their Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market and they create great tools for developers. Their mobile development tools kick Apple's and Google's (C#, Visual Studio and Silverlight against Java...).

It would be nice to see open source community wake up and start developing a competitor, as just now Microsoft is the driving force that innovates new technologies for PC and Xbox360 graphics and gaming. But for once it looks like the fact they're the only one doing so isn't slowing them down - they do a good job.

Re:DirectX (2)

C_me_glow (750294) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455664)

it would be nice. but open source isn't about nice.

Re:DirectX (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455692)

No, it's a religion.

Re:DirectX (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455762)

it would be nice. but open source isn't about nice.

And that is why Open Source doesn't win. Be nice and user friendly, and you are able to play better with others.

Re:DirectX (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455970)

And that is why Open Source doesn't win. Be nice and user friendly, and you are able to play better with others.

There's no Direct X in Apple products either, but nobody says "And that is why Apple doesn't win."

Re:DirectX (4, Insightful)

Cowmonaut (989226) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456068)

And how many games are made for Apple compared to Windows?

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456356)

Looking at the ipod/ipad app store...i might say a lot more

Re:DirectX (4, Insightful)

Danathar (267989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456384)

What lunacy...I guess Linux didn't go anywhere either cause it's open source...or Chrome.....or Firefox.....

Re:DirectX (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455742)

...their Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market...

+5, Funny?

Re:DirectX (1, Offtopic)

tgrigsby (164308) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455848)

...their Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market...

+5, Funny?

Well, +5 Fanboi isn't one of the options Slashdot gives you, so yeah, +5 Funny.

Re:DirectX (4, Insightful)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455910)

Say what you will about the confusing configuration dialogs and lack of build config options. Visual Studio + Visual Assist is (so far) untouched in terms of features and stability.

(And I'm saying this as a full time developer of Gnome apps...)

Re:DirectX (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456020)

Say what you will about the confusing configuration dialogs and lack of build config options. Visual Studio + Visual Assist is (so far) untouched in terms of features and stability.

(And I'm saying this as a full time developer of Gnome apps...)

Had you been a Kde developer you'd know kdevelop, which is truly the best development environment of them all.

Re:DirectX (2, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456240)

Interesting how praising a Microsoft product now gets you modded as "Flamebait."

Slashdot, where the echochamber is too fragile to be disturbed by contrary opinions.

Re:DirectX (0)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456368)

Nobody takes these people seriously. Visual Studio is arguably the best IDE there is, it doesn't matter how a bunch of clueless, angry dweebs mod someone for saying it.

Re:DirectX (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456046)

Visual Studio is pretty damn good. May not be the best, but it is certainly way up there. And I can easily see a lot of people preferring it.

Re:DirectX (1)

Half-pint HAL (718102) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456284)

Does Visual Studio automatically fix the tab order for GUI elements yet? As a heavy keyboard user, I had my fill of amateur VS-coded interfaces a long, long time ago.

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456390)

Yes - for silverlight and wpf.
Not sure about current version for winforms

Re:DirectX (2, Funny)

calmofthestorm (1344385) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456086)

OP spelled vim/emacs wrong.

Not only that (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455760)

They work with the GPU manufacturers. Basically when new GPUs are in development, so is the new DirectX. So MS has a chat with nVidia and AMD. They tell the GPU makers the kind of things they want, the GPU makers tell them the kind of things there hardware is going to have, and they are able to come to a standard that everyone supports. That is why when new GPUs come out they support all the features of the new DX. It isn't some amazing coincidence. Also it is proper support, a single standard that works well with the abilities the cards have. You write your DX driver, and everything works.

OpenGL functions in much more of a lagging capacity. New video cards come out, and then it gets support for whatever it is they bring to the table sometime later. Khronos doesn't seem to go out and engage the vendors during development and try to have OpenGL ready to meet the next gen cards. Also their strategy often seems to be "just use extensions for it," which means that you can have differences between vendors for how things work.

Re:Not only that (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456332)

The problem with the OpenGL ARB is that it's design-by-clusterfuck. Instead of Khronos Group laying out specs along the lines of "here's the draft, we want your opinions about whether you can make it or not", it's "Vendor X suggests method X1, vendor Y suggests method Y1, 2 weeks of shitslinging goes on, suggestions modified, rinse and repeat".

And even up until 2006, ATI were actively working against OpenGL, they had all their focus on DirectX(In fact, all the way up until the Radeon 9800 Pro, none of their consumer cards would manage to properly run SpecViewPerf, and even when the 9800 Pro managed, it was BAD. Even the FireGL's would crash often, or render garbage.

That's not to say that ATI's DirectX was that much better... it was speedy.... but there was no end to the amount of "fixed graphics issue nr gazzillion, which would affect ATI users" in patches for games.

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455876)

In fact Microsoft's support for DirectX has always been better than what OpenGL had

"Better" depends on your purpose. If you want to use Direct3D on a non-Windows platform, Microsoft's support has always been much, much worse than what OpenGL has.

It would be nice to see open source community wake up and start developing a competitor

Direct3D doesn't compete on open source platforms at all. Microsoft will need to first START COMPETING before the open source community would be spurred into action. I'd love to see that happen though.

Re:DirectX (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456186)

In fact Microsoft's support for DirectX has always been better than what OpenGL had

"Better" depends on your purpose. If you want to use Direct3D on a non-Windows platform, Microsoft's support has always been much, much worse than what OpenGL has.

Except on the Xbox 360.

Re:DirectX (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456420)

Which is running a PowerPC build of windows. Meaning that his statement still stands.

Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (-1, Flamebait)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455878)

... is vi, strace and gdb. Not all of us need a cutesy GUI interface to be able to program effectively.

Re:No seriously, shut the fuck up right now. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456004)

Shut up. The world doesn't fucking care about this argument anymore. News flash, asshole, the larger percentage of people who cut their teeth in programming are using the cutesy GUI interfaces and now they doing some amazing work with them. Just because you think your more efficient doesn't hide the fact that the majority of people don't like to work with your ugly smelly ass.

Hitler also preferred Vi. So fuck you and your goddamn troll face.

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456052)

No it's not, shut the fuck up with this nonsense already. Just because you refuse to use more productive tools because you are a tool, don't shit all over the people who do.

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456112)

You too are making the mistake that your chosen toolchain and methods are automatically more productive for everyone else. Therefore, you too should "shut the fuck up". Different people are productive in different ways and through different methods.

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (0, Offtopic)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456078)

How do you get around, dragging such a huge penis everywhere?

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456124)

I don't know about him, but my method is a little wheeled cart that I push in front of me.

But seriously, all you need is syntax highlighting, searching and a debugger. I've used grep, gedit, and GDB for a long time and they are so quick, I don't have to worry about an IDE that crashes or hangs up randomly.

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (2)

Zediker (885207) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456344)

this is actually the reason why ye olde time programmers keep away from women and are in such scarce supply. Any erection causes irreversible instant death as all blood is suddenly evacuated from their body into their bulbous appendage. A few die off every year or so, but never as bad as when the internet first caught on, there was a relative extinction event when that occured due to the prevalence of adult entertainment...

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (1)

DavidTC (10147) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456382)

If erections last longer than Eternal September, please consult a doctor.

Re:Actually , the best IDE on the market ... (-1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456386)

Not all of us are writing shitty little CLI programs running on obscure platforms, douchebag.

Find me an enterprise developer using vi, strace, and gdb and I'll find you some crusty old clueless fart who needs to be fired.

Re:DirectX (5, Funny)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455894)

It's been true for almost 10 years. In fact Microsoft's support for DirectX has always been better than what OpenGL had. Microsoft made it easy to use with all their programming tools and languages and had a great documentation. The API was always cleaner too. There were tons of books written for DirectX. This is the area Microsoft handles extremely well - their Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market and they create great tools for developers. Their mobile development tools kick Apple's and Google's (C#, Visual Studio and Silverlight against Java...).

It would be nice to see open source community wake up and start developing a competitor, as just now Microsoft is the driving force that innovates new technologies for PC and Xbox360 graphics and gaming. But for once it looks like the fact they're the only one doing so isn't slowing them down - they do a good job.

We know who you are!
We have you surrounded!

Step away from the chair and come out with your hands up.

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455984)

It would be nice to see open source community wake up and start developing a competitor,

Oh, that's me, I use OpenGL.
I am just going to waltz into the nvidia headquarters and ask what they're doing and how I can develop a fork of OpenGL based on that.

Then I'll make a super-popular operating system and bundle that new API with it, throw in some marketing, etc.

Imagine the things I could do if I woke up AND had breakfast!

Re:DirectX (0, Flamebait)

errandum (2014454) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456026)

Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market.

Just because you've only actively used that one, doesn't make it "the best IDE on the market". I, for one, have used quite a few in 3 different platforms and I have no patience for visual studio and I cringe every time I have to do anything ".NET".

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456138)

Enlighten us: what do you use that is so much better than Visual Studio? And what is cringe-inducing in .NET?

Re:DirectX (2)

errandum (2014454) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456268)

My first annoyance is visual studio. Too much bloat and hard to get to work the way you want it. Second, .NET is windows only. If you program for a smartphone or plan to port your applications to any other OS, you're screwed. But I know some people take it as a religion, so I don't won't go there. I just don't like the lack of freedom. for multi-platform development I use Eclipse if it is a big project. It works for C/C++, java, python and "android". I don't dislike XCode (way less bloat than Visual Studio), although apple seems set on destroying it by taking it in that direction. I've also used codeblocks in the past due to it's multi-platform consistency. If I'm working on a windows machine and just editing a few lines of code, I use Notepad++. If I'm on a mac, I use Textmate (this one is my favorite). And while I can see the merits of Visual Studio, I don't like it and would much rather not use it.

Re:DirectX (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456410)

Yet more generalized arguments from the "it's 1998!" crew. It's not "hard to get to work the way you want it", and VS2010 does not feel bloated. Good luck porting that Android app to iPhone because you were smart enough to use Eclipse, btw. That'll work out real well for you.

Re:DirectX (1, Informative)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456154)

Visual Studio is ok, but it's very overpriced and poorly supported by Microsoft.

My favorite IDE is IDEA from Jetbrains.

Re:DirectX (1)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456362)

Visual Studio development environment is the best IDE on the market.

Just because you've only actively used that one, doesn't make it "the best IDE on the market". I, for one, have used quite a few in 3 different platforms and I have no patience for visual studio and I cringe every time I have to do anything ".NET".

I am a huge "Apple Fanboi". I started my non-educational development with CodeWarrior back in 1998. I worked with the horrendous IDE apple provided back in the pre-OSX days and also with RealBasic. I have worked with XCode. I have worked with Eclipse, and I have worked with Visual Studio. Visual Studio has, for me, been the best IDE in the world. Fast, responsive, the best auto-complete I have tried, and the debugger is just a bliss to work with.

Your closing comment, though, makes it sound like your grudge is not with the IDE but with .NET. If you can't isolate one from the other then you can't make an objective call on the quality of any IDE, your view will always be biased by the language you are coding in.

Re:DirectX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456094)

And now you can port your windows/x360 games to windows phone too. Just give the phone another generation or two of hardware upgrade, and xbox indie arcade will be on the phone.

Re:DirectX (0)

sproketboy (608031) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456296)

I was seriously expecting a /s here. Visual Studio the best IDE? LOL. Visual Notepad compared to IntelliJ.

Re:DirectX (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456422)

8 years. D3D 8 was the first version really competitive with OpenGL, while D3D 9 pulled ahead.

OpenGL ES 2.0 breaks compatibility... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455646)

...and the API is actually quite small and simple.

WebGL is awesome and simple. Moves all the "hard" work into creating shaders, which is where it belongs.

"Doom creator"? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455650)

Is Slashdot not for nerds anymore? I never thought I'd see the day when John Carmack was described on Slashdot as "Doom creator".

Re:"Doom creator"? (0)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455706)

If you'd like to go into an off-topic semantic rant about it, I would actually even charge Tom Hall with being the creator of the game (he wrote the original plot) and then our good man Romero with turning it into the tedious piece of crap that actually shipped. (Fun fact: if it had been possible to make Doom like Tom Hall intended, storytelling in FPSes would be five years ahead from where it is today.)

But it's not exactly like we can say Bobby Prince wrote the engine, so someone has to take the credit, I guess.

Re:"Doom creator"? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455808)

The topic is about comparing one API to another.

In that context, even if you were to go into a semantic rant about it, John Carmack is the creator of Doom.

Re:"Doom creator"? (2)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456108)

You raise a pretty good point, although you'd think they'd give him a slightly shinier honourific like "lead developer of the Quake engine".

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455834)

But it's not exactly like we can say Bobby Prince wrote the engine, so someone has to take the credit, I guess.

I can think of someone who's looking for work and might be interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peW2p4GVt98 [youtube.com]

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456178)

Fun fact: if it had been possible to make Doom like Tom Hall intended, storytelling in FPSes would be five years ahead from where it is today.

Yeah, all of that storytelling worked well for Doom III...

Re:"Doom creator"? (2, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455772)

Better then "the jerk who brought us Daikatana".

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

Howitzer86 (964585) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455812)

Better watch out or he'll 'make you his bitch'.

Re:"Doom creator"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455918)

That was John Romero, you insensitive clod.

Re:"Doom creator"? (2)

vgerclover (1186893) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455958)

That's the Other John, Romero. Carmack is the great one.

Re:"Doom creator"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455780)

D3D has gotta be easier than this hack [wikipedia.org] from Quake:

float Q_rsqrt( float number )
{
        long i;
        float x2, y;
        const float threehalfs = 1.5F;
        x2 = number * 0.5F;
        y = number;
        i = * ( long * )
        i = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 );
        y = * ( float * )
        y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );
        return y;
}

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

jones_supa (887896) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455980)

i = * ( long * )

y = * ( float * )

What's the idea behind these recasts?

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456162)

Looks like a few things got eaten by the slashcode... that should be this:

float Q_rsqrt( float number )
{
        long i;
        float x2, y;
        const float threehalfs = 1.5F;
        x2 = number * 0.5F;
        y = number;
        i = * ( long * ) &y;
        i = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 );
        y = * ( float * ) &i;
        y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );
        return y;
}

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

nabsltd (1313397) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456418)

They look strange because the GP forgot to use HTML entities where needed, so some of the code disappeared.

The original source [wikipedia.org] (with comments) should explain things.

Re:"Doom creator"? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456024)

That's just one bit of magic rote. Nothing to learn here, just an (ab)use of an IEEE 754 format quirk.

So "easy" and "hard" doesn't exactly apply. Finding it out may be hard, using it certainly is easy. It's not like you have to change anything about it to have a (more or less accurate) fast sqrt function.

You CAN try to understand it (it's not that "magic" once you see why this applies), but you don't NEED to. It's a bit like DirectX coding. You CAN try to understand how DirectX does all the "magic" for you (like, say, calculate the normals, which this code is relevant to), but you don't NEED to anymore. DX is nice to you and just abstracts it all away. So maybe this (or a similar) hack is used to get fast sqrts. You just don't see them anymore.

Re:"Doom creator"? (4, Informative)

Tanman (90298) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455814)

I know. He created commander keen, first, so that should have been the game they used.

Oh my.... (1)

xQuarkDS9x (646166) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455662)

I never thought I'd see the day John Carmack would admit DirectX is better then OpenGL. I remember since the early days of doom and quake how they trumpeted OPENGL as the end all and be all of the flagship games. I guess miracles do happen!

Re:Oh my.... (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455818)

cept he has been quoted on this before, headline should read

"carmack still thinks the same" cripes its even in a wikipedia entry

Some former critics of Direct3D acknowledge that now Direct3D is as good if not better than OpenGL in terms of capabilities and ease of use. In January 2007, John Carmack said that "DX9 is really quite a good API level. Even with the D3D side of things, where I know I have a long history of people thinking I'm antagonistic against it. Microsoft has done a very, very good job of sensibly evolving it at each step—they're not worried about breaking backwards compatibility—and it's a pretty clean API. I especially like the work I'm doing on the 360, and it's probably the best graphics API as far as a sensibly designed thing that I've worked with."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D [wikipedia.org]

Re:Oh my.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455912)

We can thank Khronos for backing out on the OpenGL 3.0 redesign...

Because things change (5, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455966)

So back in the Doom days, there was no such thing as DirectX. OpenGL was all their was. Of course it was high end cards only, no consumer stuff.

So move on up to 1996 and the 3dfx Voodoo comes out. It couldn't support full OpenGL, but Glide was based on OpenGL and it brought real 3D to consumers. DirectX was at 3.0 at this point and had no 3D. Glide, or a subset of OpenGL with a wrapper (how Quake did it) was it.

DirectX 5 came out in mid 1997 and did have 3D, but it was somewhat basic. I mean it could support what consumer cards could do, but lacked a lot that OpenGL had. Still no real comparison.

However by 2001, DirectX 8 was out and DX was showing some real competition to OpenGL. nVidia had been doing DX and OGL as native APIs for their cards for some time, and both ran just as fast. Also now the cards had programmable vertex and pixel stages, just like the high end pro card, and in fact nVidia was selling their consumer hardware in the pro market as Quadros.

From there, DX just started pulling further and further ahead. DX10 was a major update and brought some cool new GPU features, like fully unified shaders. Support for it was not a lot on the software side since it required Vista and games have to deal with older computers, but the GPU makers loved it. OpenGL was not fast in terms of catching up.

DX11 pushes things forward again, and again OpenGL is playing catchup and doing it in a poor fashion with extensions. Not just new graphics features either, but things like support for real multi-threaded and multi-tasking rendering. The ability to treat a GPU much like a CPU and task switch on it and so on.

Then of course there's DirectCompute, part of DirectX. GPGPU integrated in to the API and the same for all vendors. Of course there is OpenCL, a similar idea, but it is not integrated as DC is in to DX.

So back when Carmack was an OpenGL fan, it was because it was the best. However it isn't anymore and as things have changed so has his opinions.

Re:Because things change (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456408)

Not just that but OpenGL wasn't meant as a gaming 3D API, it was meant as an industrial 3D Serious Work API. CAD, CGI, et al.

When 3dfx came around the corner it was all there was. Khronos has to balance it's interests versus vendors who supply a wide variety of products, not just games.

Maybe it would be in Khronos' best interest to fork OpenGL into two projects? OpenGL for serious business apps, and some new API for open standards gaming?

Re:Oh my.... (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456082)

It actually elevated him in my esteem. Nothing's worse than someone clinging to some technology akin to a sacred cow. If he deems it better and uses it because he considers it better, more power to him.

A good programmer (and a good project lead) will use the tools best suited to the project. Not cling to his pet technology. And everyone who ever had to serve under someone who had one such pet tool/technology/language will know the value of project leaders who can look past their favorite toy.

Re:Oh my.... (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456212)

Yep. Now he can go back to making console-friendly games like RAGE, all under the guidance of his new corporate overlords at Bethesda. :(

JC, MS shill? (1)

TiggertheMad (556308) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456282)

Why is this surprising? He has always struck me as a very smart, pragmatic engineer. If brand x widgets are now better than brand y, any good engineer will switch. His goals seem to be fairly obvious: he wants to build the fastest, most efficient graphic engine he can so he is going to pick the best tools available to do so.

His honesty is refreshing in a world of shills, ego based flame-wars, and corporate astroturfing.

WTH? (0)

Ramirozz (758009) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455674)

"Microsoft had the courage to continue making significant incompatible changes to improve the API" apply this to politics and it gets a little scary... oh... wait.

Re:WTH? (1)

YodasEvilTwin (2014446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456126)

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Doom Creator? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455688)

Pretty sure you don't need to refer to Carmack as the 'Doom Creator' I mean, this is /. for crying out loud ;)

Hometown Hero (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455716)

We, the citizens of Mesquite, TX, thank you John Carmack for revealing the obvious. Oh, and Sony makes shitty stereos.

An extension of engine recycling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455720)

I think John has a good point - the Quake engine has drove a lot of games, along with the Unreal engine. Valve's flagship, the Source engine, is a fork of the quake engine if memory serves. Back in the day, Quake 2 and Unreal / Unreal Tournament had OpenGL support, but that's around the point that I started seeing more games using DirectX, and now we have the big commercial engines using it exclusively that other developers license for their own games.

Would DirectX have this market if more of the big engines used OpenGL?

Re:An extension of engine recycling (2)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455888)

Valve's flagship, the Source engine, is a fork of the quake engine if memory serves.

GoldSrc (the Half-Life 1 engine) was a fork of the Quake 1 engine. Source is a continuously upgraded version of the GoldSrc engine. The most recent version of the engine in a released game is the Left 4 Dead 2 engine, which added a few new features that weren't present in earlier version, such as the AI Director and the fog simulation.

Having said that, at some point OpenGL was dropped from Source, and finally re-added when the OSX version shipped.

I've heard that EA also added OpenGL support when they ported Orange Box to the PS3, but I don't think Valve reincorporated that into their own games, but instead wrote the OpenGL support from the ground up.

Re:An extension of engine recycling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456194)

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that TF2 is the newest version of the Source engine? When you get a TF2 update, DODS, HL2DM, CSS, and sometimes the episodes get an update. L4D(2) are dead end ( heh, dead + zombies ) branches of the Source engine rather than main versions.

What shocks me the most.. (2)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455758)

... is how old Carmack looks now! I still remember him from the Doom days and I haven't seen a picture since. Came as a bit of a shock.

Re:What shocks me the most.. (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455864)

... is how old Carmack looks now! I still remember him from the Doom days and I haven't seen a picture since. Came as a bit of a shock.

Good grief - reading your comment, a person might think he now looked like Gandalf!

He's just middle-aged, it happens to everybody.

Re:What shocks me the most.. (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456214)

And it is far preferable to the alternative.

This being Slashdot... (0)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455826)

I predict every comment that doesn't take issue with Carmack's statement will be modded down. So...

OpenGL is obviously and demonstrably better than Direct3D. Not only is it open, it's Open! Direct3D only has ONE of those letters, and it's not even the important one - it's only the "e"!

AMD in passenger seat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455852)

Well the interesting comment in that article is the one from AMD.

'The actual innovation in graphics has definitely been driven by Microsoft in the last ten years or so,' explained AMD's GPU worldwide developer relations manager, Richard Huddy.

One would imagine that a company that develop and make GPU accelerators would be the innovator in the field but apparently AMD is fine with being in Microsoft shadow.

Re:AMD in passenger seat (0)

KillAllNazis (1904010) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456080)

They got paid to say that.

Re:AMD in passenger seat (2)

Urkki (668283) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456102)

Well the interesting comment in that article is the one from AMD.

'The actual innovation in graphics has definitely been driven by Microsoft in the last ten years or so,' explained AMD's GPU worldwide developer relations manager, Richard Huddy.

One would imagine that a company that develop and make GPU accelerators would be the innovator in the field but apparently AMD is fine with being in Microsoft shadow.

Modern graphics hardware is nothing without a library and API to it. At least for gaming purposes (and excluding consoles, though they really aren't cutting edge by the time they're in the shops anyway), Microsoft controls what programmers can ask hardware to do for them, and therefore ultimately they control what hardware can be designed to do.

The answers depend on the questions (5, Informative)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 3 years ago | (#35455886)

Carmack changed his mind some years ago. This report is quite late.

However, the title of the magazine is "Custom PC". It is worth keeping in mind that if the PC and Xbox are the only platforms you are targeting then DirectX is a valid choice for development technology.

Otherwise, you are better off developing in OpenGL, where you can target PCs, PS3, iPhone, iPad, Mac OS X, WebGL, industrial Unix (not all 3D apps are games, dontchaknow?). The only thing you can't do much with is the Xbox (technically possible, but deliberately closed by Microsoft).

Also, the pace of change in OpenGL has picked up tremendously with the stewardship of the Khronos group. So OpenGL is starting to have parity in features again after lagging for some time (plus, you can get those features on Windows XP for those still on it).

Re:The answers depend on the questions (1)

Vegemeister (1259976) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456184)

Protip: Macs and Linux boxen are PCs.

Re:The answers depend on the questions (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456230)

Hint: This is not one of those places where being a pedant is actually helpful.

Re:The answers depend on the questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456302)

Not if they are servers. The 'P' means persona.

Re:The answers depend on the questions (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456312)

You can remove the PS3 from that list as nobody uses OpenGL on it.

We should not get carried away... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455898)

... Because this ain't an apples-for-apples comparison, IMHO nobody got the chance to do a real-world face-off between DX11 and GL4.1 yet. My chips are still all-in on OpenGL, probably because it's cross-platform.

anyone have any actual experience here? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35455952)

just curious, anyone here actually writing code for DirectX or OpenGL? i've written for both and I cannot agree with Mr. Carmack though obviously his knowledge is thousands of times my own. DirectX is an MS API and all that that implies. OpenGL is pretty lightweight by comparison and (like someone else already said) moves a lot of the work into shaders with GLSL where it should be.

Re:anyone have any actual experience here? (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456064)

Depends on what your criteria for "better" are. DirectX is going to be better able to take advantage of GPU features, so should be faster on newer video cards. OpenGL is going to be more portable.

Re:anyone have any actual experience here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456372)

OpenGL, with all of its state changes and similar, is no longer a lighter-weight API compared to DirectX.

In other news (4, Funny)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456006)

Richard M. Stahlman says vi is now better than emacs.

Re:In other news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456180)

Carmack didn't write openGL, fool.

This sounds familiar... (5, Insightful)

Graham J - XVI (1076671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456044)

Microsoft had the courage to continue making significant incompatible changes to improve the API, while OpenGL has been held back by compatibility concerns.

*tweak*

Apple had the courage to continue making significant incompatible changes to improve OSX, while Windows has been held back by compatibility concerns.

:)

Payola (-1, Troll)

Baloo Uriza (1582831) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456072)

So, how much did Microsoft pay Carmack to say that?

WebGL, Apple, and Consoles (1)

HRbnjR (12398) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456098)

I don't think OpenGL is going anywhere due to WebGL in the browser, and increasing cross platform development for Apple and console hardware.

Re:WebGL, Apple, and Consoles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456134)

Nobody said OpenGL is leaving. Btw you are aware that WebGL uses directX on Windows?

cross platform (2)

nimbius (983462) | more than 3 years ago | (#35456168)

isnt correct; the article seems to contradict himself. carmack says direct3d is better because of incompatible updates made to the API, where as OP says its multi-platform performance is stellar? let me just load up a copy in my FreeBSD...yeah, that doesnt work.

his opinion also seems to contradict his own drive toward open source. if the thing you like only works with one vendor, how do you anticipate ever FLoSS'ing your code?

Haven't read and comments or the story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456172)

But I'm going to say that Direct3D has been better than OpenGL since Direct3D version 9. I've been waiting for Carmack to say the same.

And by "better" I mean better to the average gamer and the average developer making games for the most popular platform and OS that is taking advantage of modern GPU features for a modern game.

OpenGL was left in the dust a long time ago.

quakeweek predicted this years ago! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35456304)

http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/qweek.planetquake.gamespy.com/034.htm

  Greetings Mr. McGee. I'm Steve Ballmer from Microsoft and I was wondering if id Software would reconsider its stand regarding Direct3D. We have made vast improvements to the API that we think you would appreciate. Do you think you could get Mr. John Carmack on the line?
  tokasd;kjs/;gklsd.msdf;g';asdsd

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?