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Dutch Court Lifts PlayStation 3 Seizure Order

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the on-the-defensive-for-once dept.

Patents 95

An anonymous reader writes "The recent European import ban against the PlayStation 3 has been lifted. Reportedly, LG had already succeeded in seizing about 300,000 PlayStations, but a court in the Dutch city of The Hague overturned the prejudgment seizure order and told LG to return all PS3s to Sony. Sony uses the Netherlands as its main entry point for all European PlayStation sales, and can now return to normal. While the temporary ban has been lifted, LG can still assert its Blu-ray patents against Sony in a regular proceeding, which will go to trial on November 18. LG asks for patent royalties of $2.50 per Blu-ray device and believes Sony already owes it $150-180 million."

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Bluray is a mistake (3, Insightful)

devxo (1963088) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469390)

This is why I wish HD-DVD would have won. Bluray is patent encumbered, has mandatory DRM and is controlled by todays most evil firm Sony. Now it's too late and there is no competition anymore.. Say what you will, but Microsoft was fighting for the greater good with HD-DVD. Now we get all this shit from Sony.

This is what happens when we let money talk and assholes win.

BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (4, Interesting)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469420)

The one issue I had with BluRay from day one is that too many of the distributors put required ADs for other movies on the disc which play without your intervention and do their best to prevent you from skipping them. HDDVD did not allow this, it required discs to proceed to the menu or just play. I think this one of the bigger reasons Sony used to convince the other distributors to switch to their model.

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (2)

meerling (1487879) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469542)

Don't forget about the huge amounts of money they threw at hardware and media producers/distributors.
(Sony wanted a bigger chunk of the HD-DVD royalties, and the other companies said no, so Sony went and made a new version to compete with them, and then started paying off 3rd parties to provide blu-ray instead of hd-dvd offerings.)

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (1)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472464)

The one issue I had with BluRay from day one is that too many of the distributors put required ADs for other movies on the disc which play without your intervention and do their best to prevent you from skipping them. HDDVD did not allow this, it required discs to proceed to the menu or just play. I think this one of the bigger reasons Sony used to convince the other distributors to switch to their model.

I read this as "same as DVD", and it sort of explains why BD had the support of most major movie studios.

ZOMG movie theaters are encumbered by mandatory ads too!

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (1)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 3 years ago | (#35473492)

This is one of the gripes I have with DVD as well. Why should I pay for something like that? If a disc has ads on it, it should be free.

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 3 years ago | (#35474840)

It's certainly the reason I encourage people to switch to piracy. Right or Wrong it just makes sense.

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (1)

techno139 (2017092) | more than 3 years ago | (#35488764)

Holy Guacamole! That is an incredible amount of debt sony is now in. Oh well! They should have dealed with the issue n the beginning. Angular Cheilitis Treatment [angularche...ntinfo.com]

Re:BluRay is also encumbered by mandatory ads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495688)

accept the fact that HDDVD are dead...microsoft fanboy much?

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

yuhong (1378501) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469494)

Yea, I discussed the issue of AACS being mandatory before.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

517714 (762276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469536)

AACS was adopted on both formats. HD-DVD had the restriction against HD playback on component video connections turned on for some discs before the format war was over, Blu-Ray only recently activated the flag. Perhaps you would expand on what the difference in DRM between the two formats. I had always favored HD-DVD technically, but I am not familiar with its advantage in this area.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

SilentChasm (998689) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470114)

I believe that Blu-ray requires you to buy a license key for AACS in order to produce the regular pressed discs.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#35476660)

AACS was adopted on both formats. HD-DVD had the restriction against HD playback on component video connections turned on for some discs before the format war was over, Blu-Ray only recently activated the flag. Perhaps you would expand on what the difference in DRM between the two formats. I had always favored HD-DVD technically, but I am not familiar with its advantage in this area.

AACS is a MANDATORY feature on Blu-Ray - all commercial pressed discs must have an AACS key. HD-DVD supports optional AACS encryption. This means an indie filmmaker wanting to release high-def videos must either opt for the lame BDAV profile, or pay $5000 for an AACS key to even get through the front door to mastering a BDMV (regular movie BD you get in the store) disc.

Additionally, HD-DVD eliminated all region codes, Blu-Ray simplifies things into 3 regions, but they're still region coded. This has resulted in people importing HD-DVDs before the movie has even hit the local theatre.

Blu-Ray also has several other measures, including ROM-Mark that fingerprints the disc and the factory, as well as the BD+ protection.

Alas, one of the problems was that HD-DVD was a bit too consumer friendly - content makers want to lock things up tight, so they started going Blu-Ray.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469532)

The people in charge of creating new content mediums are the same people creating the content. We are never going to get a non-patent-encumbered, DRM-absent physical format.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469544)

Aren't you the guy with a history of astroturfing for Microsoft? I agree with your message, but... here you are doing it again, in favor of Microsoft, posting the same minute the story appeared. Something very weird is going on here.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469750)

I checked his posting history, he's a big Microsoft fanboi, yes, should have his head examined. However he also posts in other subjects so he doesn't seem to be a shillbot.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (3, Informative)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469842)

I checked his posting history, he's a big Microsoft fanboi, yes, should have his head examined. However he also posts in other subjects so he doesn't seem to be a shillbot.

This seems to be SOP for Microsoft shills. They post regularly and informatively on topics which are neutral for Microsoft. That of course gives them plenty of moderator points and keeps their karma high even when they are being moderated down. If you post information which is against Microsoft's interests you will notice some very interesting and wierd moderation (e.g. posts quite often fall massively early with several coordinated moderations within a period of seconds/minutes then often get moderated back up slowly later). I'd assume that this is part of a campaign to manipulate the Slashdot moderation system. I also assume that it's only partly successful since the moderating back up does seem to happen quite often. A very good reason for moderators to always browse at -1.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469958)

Some of us use more than one finger to type, so can come up with a response pretty quickly.

Why would a Microsoft "shill" be wasting his time talking up a dead format?

Re:Bluray is a mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35470016)

Try simply retyping these two posts of his in less than 60 seconds:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2033736&cid=35458946#comments [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2033358&cid=35455632#comments [slashdot.org]

(It was probably more like 30 seconds after.)

Now try to create a similar post, but with no reference - make it all up, and remain on-topic. He obviously has another account.,

fyi, post #1 was moderated down by about -10 or -15 points ... but it slowly crept back up later.

quite interesting (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470128)

quite interesting catch there. these are absurd first posts. apparently this guy is running some scheme.

Re:quite interesting (1)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470170)

I've noticed how all these posts are now moderated 0 with no reason.

*rubs chin*

Re:quite interesting (3, Funny)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470308)

just report those comments with their urls to slashdot admin email, saying that some misuse of moderation points may be afoot. they will handle those people.

Re:quite interesting (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#35477716)

whats so funny about this you dolts. they really do.

malda@slashdot.org

samzenpus@gmail.com

IM TELLING YOU !! THEY DO !!!

they manhandle, their 'manhandle'.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (2)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470206)

This seems to be SOP for Microsoft shills. They post regularly and informatively on topics which are neutral for Microsoft.

So how exactly does your theory distinguish between "shills" and people who hold less hostile views of Microsoft of their own volition?

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

bit01 (644603) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470286)

So how exactly does your theory distinguish between "shills" and people who hold less hostile views of Microsoft of their own volition?

Normal people don't give two shits about any particular company. Shills on the other hand are so bigoted it's funny and are almost completely incapable of coping with alternative points of view. In particular they have a perpetual and unbelievable feigned ignorance of anything that doesn't happen to agree with their propaganda.

---

Anonymous company communication is unethical and can and should be highly illegal. Company legal structures require accountability.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470920)

Sorry, but that's not quite good enough a distinction. Remember - most of the educational system in the US of A has been promoting Microsoft products for almost two decades now. Kids - my own, for instance, have grown up being indoctrinated to accept the idea that Microsoft and computing are synonymous. One of my own sons has swallowed that, hook, line, and sinker. Another son sees things much like I do - almost everything that Microsoft can do, can be done better by a *nix machine, usally faster, and more securely.

Now, the son who likes Microsoft isn't a shill - but he would make posts and comments similar to a lot of those found here on slashdot, posted by the shills. The kid is normal (or, almost normal anyway) but he has his opinions.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35471892)

It also doesn't help that "computer essentials" means "learn about Microsoft products" in high school. I don't see how that is "essential" at all! Microsoft Office, Microsoft Powerpoint, Microsoft Excel, etc. Everyone there thought that owning a computer meant having Windows installed. Of course, these very same people thought that accessing your Facebook account meant that you knew how to use computers well. When people say that the younger generation is more technologically literate than the older generation, I just laugh at them. That is only marginally true, at best. They are still idiots.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

bit01 (644603) | more than 3 years ago | (#35474390)

Sorry, but that's not quite good enough a distinction.

It is actually. Your kids would not have an unbelievable feigned ignorance over a period of years, or even days, over basic facts. e.g. pretending that the economic network effect does not exist or that both closed and open source have both good and bad developers, even when those simple facts have been stated in obvious fashion. Your kids may be biased but they are not willfully ignorant.

---

Anonymous company communication is unethical and can and should be highly illegal. Company legal structures require accountability.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

Spugglefink (1041680) | more than 3 years ago | (#35473566)

Normal people don't give two shits about any particular company.

So that guy every one of us knows who has an iPad, an iPhone, an iMac, an iPod and has Apple stickers plastered all over the back of his Prius and/or Corolla is not normal? Or is he just a shill? Which is it?

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35475742)

Normal people don't give two shits about any particular company.

So that guy every one of us knows who has an iPad, an iPhone, an iMac, an iPod and has Apple stickers plastered all over the back of his Prius and/or Corolla is not normal? Or is he just a shill? Which is it?

Both. duh.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470322)

So how exactly does your theory distinguish between "shills" and people who hold less hostile views of Microsoft of their own volition?

If people who simply don't agree with you are voting you down then they are abusing the moderation system. Moderators are asked to focus on positive moderation.

Why doesn't Slashdot ban these shills? (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470370)

So how exactly does your theory distinguish between "shills" and people who hold less hostile views of Microsoft of their own volition?

This is the fifth time in three days that he writes a relatively long first post defending Microsoft.

FYI, the other four are:
1 [slashdot.org]
2 [slashdot.org]
3 [slashdot.org]
4 [slashdot.org]

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 3 years ago | (#35542074)

Today; after six days; long after this story disappeared from the front page; long after the moderation could have any influence on anything other than, possibly, my karma; this was moderated down. Now someone explain that, other than my theory about MS manipulating Slashdot :-)

Re:Bluray is a mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469890)

I think you should look closer at when devxo posts: it's regularly the first post on a story -- and too long and too quick to type out, implying he has another subscriber account to see the front-page stories early. It's odd.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470410)

Why does he need a separate account? He could be subscribed with devco. (The indicator is optional. Subscribers can opt to not have it appear.)

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469572)

Sony owns far too much content (through Sony Pictures, Columbia Tristar, MGM etc) for HD-DVD to have won.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469674)

Microsoft wasn't fighting, thats why HD-DVD lost. If they had upgraded the default drive of the 360 to HD-DVD it might have stood a chance of being widely adopted. They didn't want to risk their sales figures by raising the price of the 360. Some ally....

Re:Bluray is a mistake (2)

peppepz (1311345) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470300)

1) HD-DVD was an inferior technology.
2) HD-DVD was patent encumbered too, as any currently competitive method for recording data on a physical medium.
3) Blu-Ray does not have mandatory AACS for homemade discs - that's all you should care about unless you run a Blu-Ray pressing business.
4) Sony is by no means more evil than Microsoft.
5) The competition has run, it was fair and fierce, and in the end the market chose. Which is good for the users.
6) Microsoft couldn't care less about the greater good, as their history in the last two decades demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt.
7) The shit doesn't come from Sony, but from LG; sony is the "victim" here (notice the quotes).

Re:Bluray is a mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35470660)

4) Sony is by no means more evil than Microsoft.

Well... if you would have asked me a few years back...
http://timjhenry.com/?p=164 [timjhenry.com]

Never heard Microsoft removing features from sold products and then suing the customers that re-enabled the sold feature....

Don't like any of the two companies but Sony managed to get on my blacklist until they drastically improve..

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

panda cakes (1333537) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471914)

Microsoft "removed" DOS-mode from Windows, it was there in 9x and then, poof, disappeared in XP!
It's the same way Sony "removes" stuff - it's just not supported anymore and not available in the new version of the OS. If the feature is important to you then wtf did you switch to the OS version that does not support it?

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

DCFusor (1763438) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472364)

Actually, dos mode stopped working about win2k sp2 (sp2 broke it, sp1 was still fine). No, it's not that they stopped supporting it -- they broke it and took away all hardware access from it. Just like Sony --

I know, as I use an old freeware version of Protel PCB layout tools here, still. Dumb, very fast, very stable, and did I say fast? It was written in the 286 era, so imagine how it runs on a modern machine.

For me, that was the beginning of the end for windows -- I was a windows developer, but couldn't afford the shiny new version of the Protel tools for my prototypes (tens of thousands bucks) and didn't like the new ones anyway. (.NET and Vista crap were THE end. Devstudio was ok before it became VB again)

Linux to the rescue. Dosemu, freedos, whatever -- dos works in linux better than it did as itself. For some programs, you have to tweak a setup file so the bottom 64k memory is available to dos programs, the default blocks it due to some security issue. Which is probably imaginary, haven't heard of dos exploits a lot lately myself.

For example: #!/bin/bash sudo sysctl -w vm.mmap_min_addr=0 /usr/bin/xdosemu You get: C: To which you type "Traxedit" and there you are, with a program that looks like windows but was written before windows existed.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

panda cakes (1333537) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472478)

We probably mean different things. Win9x "OS" was a DOS program in the same way Win 1,2 and 3 were - you had to boot DOS then start windows from there. So it's DOS mode was just reverting to the initial DOS, unloading all the windows bells and whistles. Win2k was a standalone OS so such a mode of operation was impossible. I

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472730)

You are so freaking dense.
You can access "dos mode" by pressing WIN+R and then typing "cmd". There you go, enjoy your batch files.

I know Microsoft software used to suck HUGE fucking time, but nowadays with Win7 / Visual Studio and the like, Microsoft software is quite good. And if you look at Microsoft stand with the Kinect, it does not get "gooder" than that (openly allowing to hack your device).

But comparing them to Sony? WTF, Sony are the most control freak, anti customer/consumer evil technology company in a long time... and they are quite stupid at that.

Installing a rootkit in your *customer's* computer?
Putting DRM into AUDIO CDs??
Removing an actual *feature* of MILLIONS of devices THEY DON'T OWN just because a kid published some codez?

WTF? the only compay that compares to Sony in evilness might be Apple. But hey, at least I give Apple that they have pushed the adoption of innovative electronic devices into the mainstream (making it "cool" to have an MP3, a touch-based device, etc).

discl. I am drunk.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

panda cakes (1333537) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472912)

Lol. It's not DOS, it's a command shell running as a win32 process in the protected mode. DOS mode is the actual DOS running in real mode.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

matt_gaia (228110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35474446)

Yes, but xtracto said he was drunk while writing that, and judging by the rambling incoherence, and factual inaccuracies, I would tend to agree with that statement...

But then again if I were drunk, I might actually think that cmd.exe was DOS, and that supporting a kinect API is somehow comparible to system-level security (Sony does support a move API, IIRC)... Wait..who am I kidding...I don't think I could ever be that drunk to believe that.

Just don't buy it (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470842)

There isn't a Blu-Ray device in my house. Or at work. I don't own one, and I'm not going to own one. It's really pretty simple. If Sony couldn't sell Blu-Ray to chumps, they would stop producing them. As long as chumps are willing to pay for Blu-Ray, Sony will keep producing them!

Re:Just don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35475768)

Unfortunately, chumps don't decide for themselves; the advertisers do :-(

Works for apple.

Re:Bluray is a mistake (1)

ChromeBallz (1976216) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471916)

HD-DVD was limited to 15Gb at most, as a 'standard for the future' it's severely lacking. Next year we'll be getting 8 layer Blurays which can hold 200Gb...

On that argument alone i'd choose the latter over the former, at least for now. Besides, we'll be getting HCD some time soon anyway.

Strange (2)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469426)

A Korean company is suing and got an import injunction against a Japanese country in the Netherlands. Strange thing, this flat world.

Re:Strange (2)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469570)

A Korean company is suing and got an import injunction against a Japanese country in the Netherlands.

Dammit, just when I thought I'd gotten a handle on geography. Which Japanese country in the Netherlands is it again?

Re:Strange (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469636)

Japan continued to vex the world Sunday, as numerous eyewitnesses saw the exotic and mysterious Pacific Rim country hovering over the flat agricultural regions of Holland. "I noticed it up there around noon," said Verner Trene, a farmer whose land lay in the 1,744-mile shadow temporarily cast by the floating archipelago. "The schoolchildren were having a great time waving at it. But, when I came out after lunch, it was gone again. Must have moved on." Trene added that no one was threatened by Japan's serene presence. As of press time, the Japanese islands were back in the Pacific Ocean.

Re:Strange (2)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469876)

Which Japanese country in the Netherlands is it again?

You know there was a big tsunami two days ago, right? And you know most of the Netherlands are under sea level.

We are NOT under sea level (0)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469962)

See this land here. That is holland... no sea right? That over there is the sea, up there behind the dunes. We are NOT below the sea... we are next to it. And a bit lower but NOT under it.

What do you mean "yet".

Re:We are NOT under sea level (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35470682)

He said sea level. not sea. He is correct. I live below sea level.

Re:We are NOT under sea level (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35471368)

but not under the sea level

Re:We are NOT under sea level (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470962)

Translation glitch, or reading comprehension problem? I can't decide. Maybe if I were multi-lingual, I would be better equipped to deal with a post that looks stupid. Damn, why couldn't I have gotten the multi-lingual gene, instead of the good-looks gene?

Re:We are NOT under sea level (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35473710)

you forgot WOOSH

Re:Strange (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470442)

A Korean company is suing and got an import injunction against a Japanese country in the Netherlands. Strange thing, this flat world.

I can't wait for the Corporate Wars to begin.

I realize that they're all corporate wars, more or less, but I'm hoping for middle management with neckties and automatic weapons meeting on the field of battle.

Or swords. Swords, spears and trebuchets would be good too, but not high-tech enough for corporate. But more satisfying for us.

"In other news, while their lawyers met in a New York courtroom engaged in fruitless peace talks, forces from LG and Sony clashed again today in Jiangsu Province with heavy casualties on both sides."

Re:Strange (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#35473532)

oh no, I very much want lawyers to be on the battlefield.

Re:Strange (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35475780)

Drinking the blood of the casualties?

Re:Strange (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#35475868)

And getting stakes pounded through their hearts

Re:Strange (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35477810)

And still managing to turn a profit from it :-(

Re. your sig: "Yes! well-written code is self-documenting!" :D

Re:Strange (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#35480956)

Re. your re. to my sig:
%$#^&#

Re:Strange (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35481028)

%$#^&#

Nice. I've not seen that technique used for ages. Elegant piece of code :D

Re:Strange (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#35481164)

it's commented too.

Re:Strange (1)

easyTree (1042254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35481362)

It's tantamount to documentation. Print it out and there's your user-manual.

Supported Blu-Ray (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469530)

I always preferred Blu-ray and hoped it would dominate. Of course, my main interest in the format was blank disks for backup purposes. 50GB/disk beats 30GB/disk any day.

For those interested in the disk for movies, year, the DRM situation sucks. But for archival, backup, or just bringing a bunch of files over to a friend's house, the better format won. And for those of you saying that greater density means more fragile data, you could toss 10% data rendundency onto the disk in the form of PAR files, and still have more space than an HD-DVD.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

517714 (762276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469562)

Yeah, great I can backup my server with only 100 discs instead of 167. Oh Wait, I have RAID. I am having a bit of déjà vu to the VHS vs Beta war when capacity also won over other considerations.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

ThisIsNotMyHandel (1013943) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469618)

RAID offeres redundancy, not backup.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469640)

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

517714 (762276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469850)

Valid points - good link; no fluff. I actually run timed backups in addition to the RAID because of the issues noted. You are correct, and I should have said "timed backups to hard drives" instead of "RAID". Use of Blu-Ray for backup would present its own set of problems - a backup that isn't done correctly and often is of little value.

The point was that the difference in storage capacity is more of a marketing point than a practical one.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (2)

cbope (130292) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469600)

Problem is, blank media is very difficult to find and expensive. I bought a Blu-ray burner when prices dropped to a reasonable level a couple years ago, but it died as a backup medium before I even got started because blank media were extremely rare. Even today, where I live, blank media is not easy to find. Sure, you go to the store and you can see stacks of blank CD and DVD media... but no blank Blu-ray discs to be found. Typically, you have to order online and the prices are ridiculous. I believe this was done intentionally to discourage the situation that became of DVD, where the DRM was cracked relatively quickly and creating copies became trivially easy to make. I believe they restrict the quantity and keep the prices high in case a full compromise of Blu-ray DRM is eventually made making copies trivial, but due to limited quantities of media it makes it easier to control unlike DVD where media is cheap and broadly available.

I do have a Blu-ray player at home that I use for movies. I buy Blu-ray vs. DVD when the price difference is nominal and I rarely buy first-release. I enjoy the vastly superior sound quality of DTS Master HD and Dolby TrueHD audio since I have a fairly high-end home theater setup. Sure the picture quality is also a big improvement over DVD when you have a good setup, but as an audio and music junkie it's the sound that I bought Blu-ray for, not the picture.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469972)

Amazon shows dozens of different choices for 25GB BD-R packs, some for as low as about $1/disk.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472914)

Amazon shows dozens of different choices for 25GB BD-R packs, some for as low as about $1/disk.

I'm I the only one that finds it mildly pathetic that, especially when you factor in the cost of swapping disks, it'd be cheaper for consumers to back to up to LTO-5 media in spite of how long Blu-Ray has been on the market?

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 3 years ago | (#35473688)

Amazon shows dozens of different choices for 25GB BD-R packs, some for as low as about $1/disk.

I'm I the only one that finds it mildly pathetic that, especially when you factor in the cost of swapping disks, it'd be cheaper for consumers to back to up to LTO-5 media in spite of how long Blu-Ray has been on the market?

Well, the 1.5TB LTO-5 tape cartridges for $70-ish each are similar in price per GB to the 25GB BD-R disks at $1-ish each, and possibly needing only a single tape would avoid a lot of disk swapping. Unfortunately, the $2500-ish price for the LTO-5 drive is a bit of an impediment for home use. So is the need for a SAS interface on the PC (or backup server).

Even more pathetic is the fact that 2TB USB drives also cost $80-ish nowadays, and a USB interface has been fairly standard for a while. So the cheapest archival per GB is to buy a fresh 2TB USB disk each time instead of the LTO-5 tape or pile of BD-R disks. For rolling backups (i.e. not archived), a handful of USB drives can be cycled for each 2TB of backup space needed.

I recall starting out with tapes, when I used a QIC-80 tape drive to back up my home PC-XT in the 1980s. It was cheaper per MB than the alternatives of the day (Iomega zip drives and suchlike), and a whole backup would easily fit on a single 80MB tape. The advent of CDs, rapid growth in fixed disk capacity, and the incompatibility of the QIC's ISA-bus SCSI card with later PC hardware led to it being dumped. It was replaced first by CD-R, then by DVD-R, and now by multi-TB USB drives.

Backups of the home systems (server, 3 PCs) are still done three times weekly, and automated.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 3 years ago | (#35473954)

Unfortunately, the $2500-ish price for the LTO-5 drive is a bit of an impediment for home use. So is the need for a SAS interface on the PC (or backup server).

Of course. I was pointing out the irony that the excessive disk swapping, in my opinion, could justify the cost of the drive! Of course, the cost of those damned tape drives isn't really justified by anything other than the corporate expense accounts they're usually purchased with...

You're right about the USB disks though. I much prefer the idea of using tape to run backups as opposed to using external hard disks though. It's hard to use tape for much of anything else, whereas most people I know couldn't even begin to resist the temptation to store yet more shit on their external drives :P. The tapes themselves will last longer too. I just wish I could find a convenient backup mechanism for my home storage (~10 TB of space) that doesn't come with an enterprise price or a shitload of USB disks. Without resorting to online backup, anyway. I throw around hundreds of gigs of data on a whim when I back up a client's computers or move around some of my VM's.

I back up all my important stuff to my online storage arrays, but that data sits alongside my media collection and tons of important documents and so on. How would you back up that much stuff easily and reliably? My experience [unfortunately] makes it difficult to think of something that isn't marketed at the enterprise sector. I hate the idea of implementing something for my own data that I wouldn't even think of presenting to upper management because of how hacked together it would be.

Maybe that would make a decent "Ask Slashdot."

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35474024)

Using USB disks for backup seems pretty interesting at current prices.

If you run some kind of unix you can make backup-like copies using rsync [mikerubel.org] so you'll only need to buy a new disk when you want an off-line archive backup.

Re:Supported Blu-Ray (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 3 years ago | (#35483672)

Isn't it cheaper to backup to 2 terrabyte hard drives? $1 for 25 gigs is 4 cents a gig, while they are selling 2 terrabyte hard drives for $70 on amazon today with free shipping. That's 2000 gigs for $70, or 3.5 cents a gig. Ok, ok, it's more like 1900 gigs but my point remains.

And the hard drives are ridiculously more convenient to back up to - just put in the drive in a hot - swap sata bay, and swap disks 76 times less often. And they are faster for recovery, and so on.

Yesterday's War (0)

grelmar (1823402) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469646)

Spinning disks are yesterday's war. It's all just data, and there are better ways of moving it around. Let the behemoths slug it out over patents and DRM. They can fritter away their accumulated wealth on armies of lawyers in the courts until they get broken up and swallowed by the rapidly growing companies that understand that the medium is now broadband, not some overpriced, over-packaged chunk of plastic.

Re:Yesterday's War (1)

kevinmenzel (1403457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469770)

What are these better ways? Really. At 50GB per disc, my bluray collection is already larger than all of my local computer storage combined. A single season of television is larger than most bandwidth caps. There's not an ISP in my country that can offer a connection speed that could handle a continuous stream of BluRay qualtiy, and even if there was, this wouldn't help much when I'm on the move. As a pressed optical medium, if handled properly, it is likely that the media will last most of my lifetime. So... what's this better way of moving it around?

Re:Yesterday's War (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470208)

Moreover, most of this local computer storage is also in the form of spinning disks, albeit in closed containers.

Re:Yesterday's War (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471030)

You seem to assume that real broadband is available to everyone, everywhere. If my operating system and data files all fit on the same 40MB hard drive that I was using ~1995, then yes, I could make backups to onlne servers. But, for me to make a backup of my real operating system and data files today would take several days. Even if I used a backup solution that only backs things up that have actually changed, I'm still looking at several hours upload time each week.

Besides which - call me paranoid, but I'm not willing to make backups to servers owned by strangers who may or may not be honest, and may or may not have my best interests at heart. I happen to like Google, but I wouldn't even back up all my data to a Google server!

only part of the story (1)

Zoidbot (1194453) | more than 3 years ago | (#35469738)

LG also had to pay Sony substantial damages.

It's also hilarious how few comments this story has compared to the original. Americans = dumbasses.

Oblig. Seinfeld (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35469878)

George: What is Holland?

Jerry: What do you mean, 'what is it?' It's a

country right next to Belgium.

George: No, that's the Netherlands.

Jerry: Holland *is* the Netherlands.

George: Then who are the Dutch?

Re:Oblig. Seinfeld (1)

vintagepc (1388833) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470342)

Jerry: Holland *is* a province in the Netherlands.

FTFY. Calling the Netherlands Holland is like calling Canada "Ontario" or the USA "Washington".

Re:Oblig. Seinfeld (1)

Half-pint HAL (718102) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470450)

You've got to remember that Seinfeld doesn't know the difference between his own country and the two-continent-wide landmass it is located in....

Re:Oblig. Seinfeld (1)

vintagepc (1388833) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471546)

Yes, but many, many people make the same mistake. It's one of those things that perpetuates itself because the majority (or at least those that you hear) don't know much better.

Re:Oblig. Seinfeld (1)

socsoc (1116769) | more than 3 years ago | (#35472250)

America! Fuck yeah!

Re:Oblig. Seinfeld (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#35476624)

Not quite. A dutch/english friend of mine told me that "Holland" is really the largest part, and only people from a few, small, rural areas get pissed off when you confuse the two.

I guess like 80%(ish) of the British are English and aren't going to care that much when you confuse the two. But the Scots, oh the Scots get angry!

Error in headline (1)

Half-pint HAL (718102) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470416)

The headline says "Dutch Court Lifts PlayStation 3 Seizure Order". This is not true. It is a European court that happens to be physically located in Den Haag, which is in the province of South Holland. It is in South Holland, but is not Dutch.

Barack Obama lives in Washington, but he is not Washingtonian, he is Hawai'ian.

HAL.

It WAS a Dutch court, not a European one (3, Informative)

FlorianMueller (801981) | more than 3 years ago | (#35470470)

I saw this post, which links to my blog, and then the comment above from Half-pint HAL claiming it's a European court that happens to be based in the Netherlands. However, Half-pint HAL is Full-scale WRONG on this one. It was a purely Dutch proceeding. A ruling issued in Breda, Netherlands, was appealed to the next higher Dutch instance in The Hague.

No European court is based in The Hague. The European courts are based in Luxembourg (Court of Justice of the EU, General Court of the EU) and Strasbourg (the European Court of Human Rights, which is not an EU institution but connected to the Council of Europe, which includes non-EU countries like Russia).

There are international courts in The Hague, such as the International Criminal Court and the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Those aren't European courts, however. Neither EU nor otherwise European.

Re:It WAS a Dutch court, not a European one (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35473362)

lolwut?!

Re:Error in headline (1)

will_die (586523) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471378)

He is an Illinoisan or whatever they call themselves.

Zero sympathy for Sony (0)

jmichaelg (148257) | more than 3 years ago | (#35471350)

As long as Sony continues to bully George Hotz for publicizing Sony's all random numbers=2 coding error, any setback for Sony is good news in my book and conversely, good news for Sony is bad news. Sorry LG lost their injunction.

Re:Zero sympathy for Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35473526)

I was also looking forward to seeing LG bitch slap a handful of SONY execs, stuff them back under the rock they crawled out from. I wonder how one would go about disrupting the flow of SONY products into North America?

Somewhat on Topic, Somewhat Not: (1)

Celestialwolf (1656075) | more than 3 years ago | (#35480338)

I've been trying to find some way to play blu ray disks on my new PC build without having to buy PowerDVD 10 (why should I have to buy some software I don't want in the first place just to play a disk I already own? Not happening). I know these disks are loaded with DRM, but Is there any free alternative out there? I know of libbluray http://www.videolan.org/developers/libbluray.html [videolan.org] , but to be honest I'm not sure how to get it working. Does anyone out there know how to A) get this to work, or B) know of a different opensource/free solution to play blu ray disks? Feel free to note me if the method would make the MPAA go into a conniption fit. ;)
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