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Iris-Scan ID Cards For Children In Mexico

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the cuidado-con-el-gobierno dept.

Privacy 114

An anonymous reader writes "Today the first ID cards that include iris and fingerprint biometric information were registered and issued in the Mexican state of Guanajuato. (Original article in Spanish.) The juicier part of the story is that for now, only children will be enrolled in this national biometric database. It is intended that by December 2012 all children in the country will be registered. The alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. The first ID cards are being issued in the same city that last year started implementing a mandatory iris scan for convicted felons and voluntary members of the public in a Minority Reportesque plan to combat delinquency that features iris readers in public transport and ATMs. This comes from the country that last year attempted and failed to create a national database of mobile phone users, again with the purported intention to tackle extortion and kidnappings."

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114 comments

Police state (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498100)

I think Mexico is one of the few countries in the world where I wouldn't mind a police state with full CCTV coverage, considering the drug wars going on...

Re:Police state (4, Insightful)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498236)

So the police can tell the Narco Gangs where you are to make kidnapping easier?

Re:Police state (4, Insightful)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498296)

Great point.

I'd mod you up, but I want to make the counter-point that it might be preferable to legalize drugs than impose a police state on the populace.

Re:Police state (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498396)

We're keep trying, but the Americans keep interfering. The watered down laws we have now do more damage than good.

Re:Police state (1)

i-linux123 (2003962) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499078)

"watered down"
I think that's the main argument. Preventing the spread of drugs, and fighting it, is the just stance.

Re:Police state (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499346)

Americans aren't interfering with anything. It's your government, and your responsibility. If you want to change your laws, go right ahead; the Americans aren't stopping you. Stop whining about Americans and take responsibility for yourselves.

Re:Police state (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499694)

Ah really? Another arrogant know nothing [latimes.com] ..

FTFL:
In May 2006, then-President Vicente Fox, of the same right-wing party as Calderon, vetoed a similar bill that he initially had supported. He backed down only under pressure from the Bush administration, which complained that decriminalization for even small amounts could increase use.

We had to "sneak" it through this time to keep you people off our backs. So please, accept responsibility for the people you elect to high office. In other words, curb your dog. And put a muzzle on it..

Re:Police state (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499952)

Again, it's your own government, dumbass. If they're answering to some foreign government instead of you, the voters, it's your responsibility to take action and fix the situation. It's not anyone else's fault or responsibility.

The American government isn't so great either: it answers to giant corporations instead of the voters too, but at least here we don't have to worry about having our heads chopped off or being raped by the police. Even so, our government's failures are OUR fault, and our responsibility, no one else's. It's we, the voters, who bear the blame and responsibility of making sure our government is doing what we want it to. Same goes for you.

Re:Police state (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500242)

...but at least here we don't have to worry about having our heads chopped off or being raped by the police...

Deeper in the rabbit hole [wikipedia.org] you go. And that list is very incomplete. Now, feel free to play your numbers game. It will be duly noted. Oh, and let's see what happens if you put up even the tiniest bit of resistance, no matter how justified.

2011, and the bigotry is as pervasive as ever. Hard to believe it's real

Re:Police state (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500296)

You compare isolated cases of police brutality (which admittedly do happen), to Mexico where the cops are all working for the cartels, and also involved in other crimes such as raping every woman who travels through the country on the way to the USA?

2011, and the bigotry is as pervasive as ever. Hard to believe it's real

Nothing wrong with bigotry when it's based on reality. I read all about what happens every day in your fucked up country on blogdelnarco, right from the horse's mouth.

Re:Police state (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500342)

Wake me when you figure out who finances it all, and where the orders come from. Your ignorance is simply overwhelming. That you choose to stay that way is something else.

Re:Police state (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35501820)

Wake me up when you stop trying to blame all of Mexico's problems on the US. Clean your own house before you point fingers elsewhere.

Re:Police state (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500250)

We had to "sneak" it through this time to keep you people off our backs. So please, accept responsibility for the people you elect to high office. In other words, curb your dog. And put a muzzle on it..

Mexico is a sovereign nation. If the US president doesn't like the laws Mexico passes, feel free to tell him to mind his own business.

Re:Police state (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500322)

Mexico is a sovereign nation.

Unfortunately no. There's no such thing. A funny thing happened on 9/11 [wikipedia.org] .. Pretty effective deterrent against subversive activity, don't you think?

Re:Police state (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498410)

Well, I don't have first hand knowledge, but I was told that large parts of the police are bribed or otherwise involved with the drug cartels [bbc.co.uk] . One could say a true police state would only make it worse (note however that police state is a tautology anyway, considering that polices stems from the Latin word for "the state" [blurtit.com] ). IMNHO the only way to fight the drug related violence is legalize the drugs.

What's the date again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498144)

It is intended that by December 2012 all children in the country will be registered.

Are they picking that date just to fuel the conspiracy theories [the2012warning.com] ?

Re:What's the date again? (3, Funny)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498258)

Pretty sure the Mayans weren't referring to a child-identification system when they said "...and then the world will end".

Re:What's the date again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498268)

Not likely but, it seems you are fueling it though.

Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site. (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498204)

"he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

That IS it's purpose and it will help.
Whether or not you think it's worth it is a different matter.
Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498248)

> Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to
> get protection from abuse into law.

You appear to believe that both:
a) it is possible to get populist legislation enacted
b) it is not possible for government to break the law.

Your plan fails on both counts. At least in Mexico and the USA.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498304)

You appear to believe that not telling the government how to do its job properly is a good idea.

If you make bad things illegal, even if the federales do them, and you enforce that, even if the federales are the defendant, then you end up with rule of law.

Make it explicit that there are illegal uses of the identification system, then the identification system will be safer than not having one.

We do a similar thing here all the time with Free Speech. You have a right to it, and you can use it rather blithely, even though it's possible for the government to abuse you for it. But if it tries, you'll scream for an ACLU lawyer and kick their ass.

No reason that Free Speech can't be substituted with ID Abuse in that paragraph.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498352)

Thank you.

Sometimes I feel like I'm screaming into the wind.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (5, Insightful)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498506)

I don't know where you think you would find your little law and order utopia, but it sure isn't here. Kidnapping (and the drug war) is a problem due to official corruption, not for lack of tagging our kids like cattle..

Outsider meddling in our domestic politics doesn't help matters any either

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498808)

Whining about tagging your kids like cattle is a waste of resources when you should be fighting the corruption.

We'll remember that "outsider meddling" crack when you come begging for our troops to end the corruption for you.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498914)

Thank you for showing you don't have clue. Blinded by arrogance to this day you are... And you wonder why the world doesn't bow down to you..

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499418)

I don't give a rat's ass about the world bowing down to us. If I had my way, we'd build a big wall on our southern border and shoot anyone who climbs over or tunnels under it, stop all foreign aid to your failed state (and most other countries as well), legalize pot and decriminalize all other drugs, stop all trade with you, and let you morons kill yourselves. Your culture worships violence, crime, and Santa Muerte [wikipedia.org] (the Saint of Death), your people are more violent than just about any on earth, and you should be isolated and left to your own devices. I want nothing to do with your disgusting "culture".

Whining about "outsider meddling" is funny. If you don't like your politicians listening to outsiders, then vote for ones who don't. If voting isn't working, then try a revolution; the brave people of Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya put up with a lot less than the barbarism your people experience every day, and rose up and put an end to it (or are in the process of it in the case of Libya). The brave people of Bahrain and Yemen are doing the same, and other countries in the region will probably go the same way soon, with those people sick of their governments. Your people instead will happily stand by and let the cartels take over, aided by their corrupt allies in government.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499750)

Your culture worships violence, crime.. your people are more violent than just about any on earth, and you should be isolated and left to your own devices.

Coming from an American... That's... interesting...

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500010)

How so? It's your broken culture that produces the violence seen here [blogdelnarco.com] . Sure, we have some problems with violence, but nothing remotely like what's seen there. Moreover, when we glamorize violence in our Hollywood movies, it's about "good guys" shooting up "bad guys". People cheer when the criminals get killed.

In Mexico, it's the criminals who are considered heroes: http://www.khou.com/news/Narco-culture-glamorizes-violent-lifestyle-in-Mexico-and-in-Texas-116571258.html [khou.com]
Mexican musicians write songs ("narco corridos") about how wonderful drug traffickers are. Narco cinema glamorizes drug smuggling. Hit men record gruesome killings and upload them to YouTube. Basically, your culture thinks crime is a good thing. No nation can ever be successful when its citizens think crime and violence against innocents is something to be respected and cherished.

There is something fundamentally broken about your culture and your people, and if I had my way, you would have no contact with anyone else in the world.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500100)

It's your broken culture that produces the violence seen here. Sure, we have some problems with violence, but nothing remotely like what's seen there.

*cough* [iraqbodycount.org] Yeah, we know. You've off shored that too.

I don't believe I've ever seen anybody so swallowed up in the media trap. You are so high on the blue pill you literally don't see beyond your own skin. One thing you do show, your politicians are made in your image... Thank you for a most educational perspective. Pero huele muy feo el pedorro

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35502184)

> your people are more violent than just about any on earth

Oh common, wetback's are bad but their better than niggers any day.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498938)

"Whining" does not mean "caring about something more than I do". And yes, that IS what you meant.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35501800)

American troops ending corruption? What like in Iran, Iraq, Vietnam and Afghanistan? God, you people talk some shit.

Who enforces the enforcers? (1)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498492)

"and you enforce that"

Well, that's the real trick, isn't it? Who enforces the enforcers?

In the USA, the Legislature is supposed to supervise the Executive.

The last time enforcement happened, Nixon was President.

The next time it was attempted was when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and a Democrat president committed the "high crime" of lying about an extramarital affair. Basically the "separation of powers" the framers crafted has degenerated into Democrats vs Republicans.

Enforcing laws this way is what we call "selective enforcement," and it is antithetical to the Rule of Law.

In Mexico, the system is more like narcos against narcos, with a few brave martyrs-to-be tilting against the windmills of evil.

Re:Who enforces the enforcers? (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498830)

If only Bubba could have been president Anonymously...

As for revolutions, bring more martyrs. It generally takes thousands acting in concert. If the black-hats aren't afraid to die for their drugs, the people need to step up with the risk-taking to get them put down.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498490)

"he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

That IS it's purpose and it will help. Whether or not you think it's worth it is a different matter.

Another matter: will help who exactly?

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498562)

So of course the recorded iris scan will be deleted upon reaching the age of majority. Won't it?

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (5, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498606)

"he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

That IS it's purpose and it will help.

No, it's purpose is security theater: to make the citizens think their government is taking serious steps to combat the security problem.

How are ID cards supposed to stop children abduction or exploitation? "Crap! We can't kidnap and exploit this kid: his irises are catalogued! The police will know he's not ours! Now that kid standing NEXT to him is clearly an orphan and will be untagged. Tie him up and put him in the sweatshop, then any police who notice will think he's OUR kid, along with the other 20."

Or is it more "Stay back evildoers! I have AN ID CARD!!!"
Evildoers: "Oh no! He'll give us papercuts!"

Or is it that most of the people using/kidnapping kids are confused and think they're unclaimed children that are finders keepers?

It's a thoroughly nonsensical idea that will do nothing to stop any real problem, hence the sarcasm in the post.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35504104)

And yet, no one on this site seems to ever think of the following:

Or is it more "Stay back evildoers! I have the constitution!"

Evildoers: "Oh no! He'll give us papercuts!"

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498630)

"he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

That IS it's purpose and it will help.

"Let's grab that kid and sell her as a sex slave."
"We can't! She's got an ID card."

...yeah.

This is the same thinking behind fingerprint kits, which are claimed to help keep your kid from being abducted.
Sorry; the truth of the matter is, they're only useful in identifying kids after they have been abducted, and honestly in some cases dental records would be better for that.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35499116)

Pretty sure it's just a national ID scheme that's been passed under a false flag op. A card won't stop someone being kidnapped and smuggled abroad, and in fifteen years those children won't be children anymore. Fingerprints and biometrics already on the database, cards already issued, .gov passes a new regulation requiring the card to find employment. Game over.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499422)

No, it's an excuse for tracking _everyone_. "Think of the children" has been a rallying cry for numerous attacks on civil liberties, free speech, anonymity, and a general desire to have full access to everyone's personal matters.

Most child abductions are by relatives: divorced parents pulling children across state lines because they disagree with divorce court proceedings, often with good reason, is one of the most common sources of child abduction. Tnad this will do very little about that unless the _states_ agree to exchange data and support extradition proceedings, and there are excellent cases of why this is exactly the wrong thing to do for the child.

Such "child tracking" and the necessary national tracking database for it to be effective is also a direct violation of states' rights, which have set standards for custody and child care on a state by state basis.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35500622)

"You know - for kids"

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499784)

Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

Once the ID system is in place, any protections can be eliminated from law with the stroke of a pen. Or simply ignored by the government, a la Bush and US wiretapping.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35502064)

Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

Once the ID system is in place, any protections can be eliminated from law with the stroke of a pen. Or simply ignored by the government, a la Bush and US wiretapping.

Which is why as soon as they implement such a system in the US, I'm moving to Mexico. Why? Because for about $100 cash I can bribe an official who works with the ID system to dis-associate my biometrics with my real identity, and attach them to a fake one. Then they'll take the biometrics from a dead person, and attach those to my former identity. Voila! Now I'm a completely new person, and I have a 100% legitimate ID to prove that I was born and raised a Mexican citizen. And anybody who comes looking for Snidely Whiplash will find out he's dead... and they'll even be able to visit my grave, exhume "my" corpse, and positively verify that it was indeed Snidely who was put in that hole. If I'm really paranoid, I'll spend another $100 to have the guy who did it "disappeared".

The other bonus? I'll be able to smoke weed without having to worry about spending more time in jail than a child rapist.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35505020)

Because for about $100 cash I can bribe an official...

That was maybe 30 years ago. You need between 5 and 10 thousand now.. if you want a professional.. But hell, you can buy an American with that kind of money, and get better service..

Government is corrupt no matter where you are. Politicians are bought and sold like trinkets at the bizarre. The Mexicans just happened to be on the wrong end of the big stick. I hear they want to start locking you up for downloading movies and music.. Justice at its best, it seems

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (2)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500832)

Counted sheep are eaten by wolfs too.

Say I am a kidnapper. Do you think that I would care whether your kid has ID, a cellphone and a personal tracer? I will still take your kid. If it is for money, those items will be easier for me to determine the price. If it is for personal lust, then those items could be seen as trophies or as lust.

In Belgium many kids have ID cards and phones. Kids still disappear. The majority because they run away from home. Then there are those that are kidnapped by the other parent.

The absolute minority gets kidnapped, raped and murdered (single digits in numbers, not even percentages) by strangers.

Most abuse towards children AND adults is by people they know. There also those cards won't help anything.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#35502254)

A bit of a special case. The Belgian police are so lazy, corrupt and incompetent they'd make an Indian blush. Remember when the back door to a police station was left open and a convicted paedophile walked out? Remember when they heard the imprisoned kids behing a false wall and did nothing? The one who crashed his car while drunk and tried to get subordinates to cover it up?

Until you fix that (i.e. fire the vast majority of them, and jail a fair few) nothing else is going to work.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (1)

currently_awake (1248758) | more than 3 years ago | (#35502916)

Child abduction does appear to be a problem in mexico. A larger question is what happens to the biometric data when they become adults. I suspect it WON'T be deleted, and I suspect those people won't have that option offered to them. Meaning that the entire country will (in one generation) be biometric scanned. Think of the children is such an easy way to conn people into giving up their freedom.

Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35505184)

Haha, sure it is. Will they be erasing data once the children reach 18 years of age? No? Why not?

You're a fake (2, Interesting)

Wowsers (1151731) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498218)

ID cards help fraudsters, they provide a valid "government backed" way of proving something that is not necessarily true. How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards? It is a scam to get people on the databases for a dark future the governments plan. Drip drip, your freedom is being taken from under your noses.

It is more worrying that they are getting at the children, so they get used to these cards and think nothing of them... then when they grow older they will blame their parents for doing nothing about the cards, and enslaving them and future generations.

Re:You're a fake (1)

black3d (1648913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498264)

You watch too many movies.

Re:You're a fake (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498534)

You watch too many movies.

Ummm... no he doesn't. You don't watch enough. Or read. Or think.

Re:You're a fake (1)

black3d (1648913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498886)

Really? Please elaborate on your findings of "spies" using multiple copies of fraudulent biometic iris scans.

Re:You're a fake (1)

Lloyd_Bryant (73136) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498570)

You watch too many movies.

You don't read enough history.

Re:You're a fake (1)

black3d (1648913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498974)

You're right. I must be missing the part of history which shows "spies" using multiple fraudulent biometric iris scans.

In my knowledge of spy history, such as the Illegals Operation for example, two of the agents used their original identity - Anna Chapman included. The rest used stolen identities of American citizens. The reason these were able to be stolen is because we DON'T use biometric data or iris scans in our identification. You're commenting on an article, saying:

How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards?

The fact is, if iris scans were on record for these citizens, then there identity could NOT be stolen so easily. You're arguing against the very measure which makes it more difficult for spies to operate.

"These cards" are the ones which make that more difficult. You're thinking of passports, yet talking about iris scans.

Additionally, it is extremely rare for "spies" to have multiple identifications. They have their original identification, and a cover identification arranged by their own government (not very difficult to fake a passport when you're the folks printing them). Not six different nationalities. That's movies, and very rare bad spies who get caught because they trust movies as their source for how to operate.

Re:You're a fake (1)

black3d (1648913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498992)

And apologies, I treated you as OP, although you're not. Hopefully you'll see what I was replying to originally, however.

Re:You're a fake (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498344)

You're about as free as a wage-slave in a plutocracy can be. But you're so busy worrying about civil rights that don't exist, and trying to stop government calamities that won't ever exist, you don't even notice that you're shovelling the value of your life's work into the Koch Bros' pockets leaving yourself to be homeless when you outlive your retirement savings.

Re:You're a fake (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500256)

you don't even notice that you're shovelling the value of your life's work into the Koch Bros' pockets leaving yourself to be homeless when you outlive your retirement savings.

Don't be ridiculous. No one, including, the Koch Bros, want old people to outlive their retirement savings. They simply want average, middle-class people to never stop working and not retire at all, until they finally fall down dead on the job. The more the people at the bottom work and contribute to the GNP, the more the money the people at the top make. Retirement is fundamentally unAmerican because it deprives the entire nation of profit.

Re:You're a fake (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498390)

haha. You need to get your view on spies from better sources then 'Burn Notice'. Although it is a good show.

enslaving them. Gah, to quote BB: "What an maroon"

Re:You're a fake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498744)

haha. You need to get your view on spies from better sources then 'Burn Notice'. Although it is a good show.

haha. You need to grow a brain. Are you denying that spies use fake identification? That's absurd. Sometimes they are even caught red handed. Here's the first example of that off the top of my head: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh .

enslaving them. Gah, to quote BB: "What an maroon"

Read a history book once in a while, you myopic twit. Human history is riddled with examples of one class of people trying to enslave another. If that's ridiculous to you, you are too ignorant to form worthwhile opinions.

Honestly, replying to people like you is like shouting into the wind ;-) You seem so eager to say anything to support the increasingly unlikely world view that everything will be alright if you just keep your head down, be quiet, and do your job. News flash: according to history, it rarely works out like that.

Our civil rights are being flushed down the crapper and people like you are part of the problem.

Re:You're a fake (1)

black3d (1648913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499016)

haha. You need to grow a brain. Are you denying that spies use fake identification? That's absurd. Sometimes they are even caught red handed. Here's the first example of that off the top of my head: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh [wikimedia.org] .

Lol.. "grow a brain, moran!"

Do you see the different between people faking passports and faking biometric data?

No?

Then please, stop talking before you hurt yourself.

Re:You're a fake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35500410)

Do you see the different between people faking passports and faking biometric data?

Lol @ tiny, naive child. Are you seriously dumb enough to think that faking one's own personal biometric data is the only way to get a fake biometric ID? You must never have heard of social engineering, inside jobs, systemic corruption, or abuse of power. You are the perfect delusional slave. Keep rationalizing your own inaction whilst your freedoms are being piddled away. I hope the iris scan doesn't hurt your eyes, the government hates it when its property is damaged. ;-)

Re:You're a fake (2)

Sarten-X (1102295) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499164)

Gee, I wonder how government spies could have fake government records... It's not like the world's current method of checking a foreigner's information is to just ask their government... oh wait...

Re:You're a fake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35501300)

"How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards?"

(Premise) Fingerprints are supposedly unique. (So) The different ids of these spies will be associated with the same fingerprints. Therefore either the database does not check for / flag duplicate fingerprints or there is an exception list for individuals with duplicated fingerprint records. Excellent.Hacking.Opportunities (allegedly)

I wouldn't worry about it (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498288)

Unless they attach this to Hacienda, the only government department that actually works.

Wrong department (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35499586)

They missed the chance to say "ojo-con-el-gobierno department".

for the children? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498292)

do the records get destroyed once the child reaches the age of majority?

Re:for the children? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498522)

do the records get destroyed once the child reaches the age of majority?

Bad news: no. The good news: there are good chances the child will be destroyed before the age of maturity, which will of course make the record meaningless.

Re:for the children? (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500262)

This is Mexico, so this isn't much of a concern. The child probably won't live much past its 18th birthday.

How would it help the children?doesn't make sense. (1)

master_p (608214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498326)

Id or not, the children will be abducted and exploited. This id will not help children at all.

Ids are useful when people enter a place, not when the leave it.

Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498378)

A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child.
Now when they register for school, people will be notified, or get medicine and so on.

Ids are useful when they are checked. The direction you are going is irrelevant.

No, it won't help all children, but it will help most children.

Contrary to what many vocal people on /. think, laws like these do have a preventative effect. How much? that depends on the situation.

decapitated heads have no fingerprints (1)

decora (1710862) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498438)

so when their heads turn up in a ditch, and their body turns up in a dumpster, you will be able to match the parts together.

this post is not a joke. just google what is going on down there.

Re:decapitated heads have no fingerprints (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500274)

Don't be ridiculous. Heads don't wind up in ditches in Mexico, they're put on public display in town squares. Sometimes, they even strip the skin off the skull, and display the two separately, just for kicks. As for the body, it doesn't go in a dumpster whole, all the limbs are cut off, because apparently Mexicans enjoy that kind of thing.

Read all about it here: http://www.blogdelnarco.com/ [blogdelnarco.com]

Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498656)

A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child. Now when they register for school, people will be notified, or get medicine and so on.

What "large portion of children" are we talking about? I'm going to say if it's under 10% of children abducted, invading the other 90%'s privacy is too high a price. And whatever the numbers, mandatory rather than opt-in is unjustified.

Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498748)

Seems easier to just investigate the family members when the kid goes missing. And if someone wants the kid, needing to show ID for school or a hospital just means that they won't take it there.

Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen (3, Interesting)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499598)

A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child.

You can't be certain of that.

But it is particularly dangerous to compare the U.S. - where extortion abductions are almost unknown - to a country where kidnapping for profit has become big business.

Colombia was once Latin America's kidnapping capital, where Marxist guerrillas took hostages and held them for months, even years, in recondite jungle camps, using them as political bargaining chips or human shields. But in recent years, as drug cartels in Mexico have branched out into other forms of crime, kidnapping there has become a lucrative cash industry.

As kidnappings for ransom surge in Mexico, victims' families and employers turn to private U.S. firms instead of law enforcement [washingtonpost.com]

Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500282)

You're thinking of abductions in the USA. In Mexico, they're more likely to rape the children, as raping young girls is a national pastime there. Then they'll kill them. Biometric ID might be useful in matching the severed body parts together however.

the drug lords that have infiltrated government (1)

decora (1710862) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498422)

will now have everyones iris scan. wonderful!

if you dont believe me just google up the NPR stories about the drug war in mexico.

journalists have stopped reporting. politicians have stopped talking. the drug gangs control everything, including, now, your children's biometric data.

Re:the drug lords that have infiltrated government (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500314)

Mexico is a failed state. The government no longer has any control over most of the country, except probably Mexico City itself. Mexico is best compared to Somalia, a very similar country with no more effective government and no rule of law. Worse, Somalia is probably a safer place to travel.

Malaysia + Mercedes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498732)

Now we will see lots of children with a missing eye and fingers...

Children become adults (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498882)

Eventually through attrition the entire population will be in the database. Wonder how long until the US government tries the same excuse?

Funny how in Mexico it's children and felons. Scary putting them in the same group with the same rights to privacy.

This Perfect Day (2)

Speare (84249) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498922)

Every time I read a universal biometric plan, I think of the old sci-fi book, This Perfect Day [amazon.com] by Ira Levin. It was written in that timeless-far-future style that Asimov or Clarke would write, and it describes a day when all people had a nameber (a name/number combined) like "Bob RM04TG5002," all but a few old-timers were genetically indistinguishable by sight, and all governance was centralized into an all-knowing UniComp. Everyone had to ask UniComp for everything by touching their permanent bracelet to a scanner at every opportunity. Of course the main character was quirky and rebelled.

As a kid reading it, it really taught me the concept of willful non-conformism and individuality. Other stories like Caves of Steel touched on parts of it, but this was the central idea here. Worth a quick read if you want to grab it. Don't thank me, thank Uni.

Scene: Adopt-a-Child, Mexico City (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35498948)

Would-be Parent: Yes, we'd like to adopt a child. A fine son. Blond-haired and blue-eyed would be best

Govt. Dept lackey: (tap tap tappity tap) Here's one, I'll just pass the detail onto our collection agency.

Would-be Parent: Collection agency? But we've no intention of defaulting on the payment of our fees.

Govt. Dept lackey: Oh Sorry - I meant "Orphanage". Your son will be available ... oh ... Thursday.

Another database for sale (1)

happyfeet2000 (1208074) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499134)

A few years ago, the whole elector's database was illegaly sold to private companies, including an American one, and as a result most people keep receiving unwanted calls from their banks up to 7 or 8 times a day trying to sell you insurance over the phone or asking for overdue payments, same from other companies, sometimes for years even if it was a clerical error. Last year the government tried to force everybody to register their cell phones since most people opt for prepaid cards to avoid fraudulent charges from Carlos Slim's (richest man in the world) Telcel company. About half the users naively did. Now they're receiving extorsion calls from people claiming they've kidnapped a relative of yours. Most calls have been traced to prisions where influential prisioners have their little kingdoms. Of course that has been a fact of life with land lines too, but up to now there was no way to know which cell phone number youi have. Now they have all your personal info since the registration is tied to the equivalent of your SS number (CURP), who also links you to info on your bank balances. And now, oh my my, the same government whose corrupt politicians, police chiefs, and even state governors have been found to protect kidnappers wants you to register all the info of your children in one convenient big database...and the company in charge is owned by a president's in-law (Hildebrando)...wow...can't wait to comply...!

Retina or nada (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499210)

And today's 100% of the children become 100% of the adults in several years. It is more like a grandfather clause. There is no way any government will ever delete data once it is collected. Not gonna happen.

In any case, it is interesting that they would collect an iris scan. I *hate* the idea of a government collecting any "latent"-able biometrics from anyone not *convicted* of a serious crime (see below). If one method HAD to be chosen, however, a retinal scan would be the best (iris might be second best). Best from an ID standpoint, and best from a civil liberties standpoint.

Why? Because you can't be framed using retinal data (unless you regularly leave your eyes lying around). It can't be stolen nor "planted". You can't be covertly scanned without your knowledge. It's data can't be easily forced from you. It is incredibly hard to fake. It is incredibly hard to alter. Trying to eradicate it from your body would have a serious negative impact. You don't go around unintentionally leaving your retina signature all over the place like fingerprints or DNA. And DNA can reveal more about you than just identity.

Re:Retina or nada (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499480)

It can be planted in the computer records. Why would you think that is actually reliable?

It's also uncomfortable and easily confused (though not faked) by laser surgy for vision correction or diabetic retinopathy,by cataracts, or even by contacts.

Re:Retina or nada (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499640)

Well, *any* data can be planted into computer records. That doesn't address the actual ID technology, itself. (Of course, it is a valid concern across the board).

As for comfort- a DNA ID verification could probably be a lot more invasive and uncomfortable (cheek swap, blood draw) at least by today's standards. A fast retinal scan design would be to simple look into eyepiece for a second. Done. I think a modern system could be almost as fast as a fingerprint scan.

I don't think laser surgery for vision correction or contacts would make any difference, because that doesn't alter the retinal pattern. You do have a point for retinal surgery, though... but I am not sure it would alter enough of the retina to matter for most purposes.

Re:Retina or nada (2)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499944)

DNA ID's are expensive. They use consumable chemicals, and drawing body fluids into a publicly accessible device presents fascinating liability and exposure issues, and they neglect the existence of "chimeras", organisms (including humans) who have multiple sets of DNA. (They're fascinating medically, usually from shared blood supples with non-identical twins before birth.)

Laser surgery to correct vision distorts the lens: that can cause profound distortion of the expected retinal image, beyond the ability of the computer to recognize the correct image. Given the number of false negativies retinal scans provide, it significantly lowers their usefulness.

Diabetic laser surger is also fascinating in its results. Do look it up. I'm afraid I'm old enough that I have acquaintances who've had such surger, and feel sure that retinal scans taken before, during, and after the retinopathy, and I've even had the opportunity to look through an opthalmoscope and actually see the changes. If they're enough for a casual observer to note, I'm sure theyre' enough to distort the results of a retinal scan.

Re:Retina or nada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35499688)

What are your thoughts on vascular biometrics like finger or palm vein? These are also non-traceable. The sensors read the unique vein pattern underneath your skin.

Re:Retina or nada (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500076)

Yes, vein patterns would be a good choice, also. Something that is inside the body- not easily extracted without knowledge/permission, something difficult to replicate or alter, something not "left" all over the place. However, obtaining one would have to be from a part of the body other than the palm, because they could use that opportunity to also obtain a full set of fingerprints (or even palm surface print) without much effort and without the target knowing it. Unless it could be designed such that is it impossible and apparent that it does not include the fingers, the back of the hand would be safer.

Re:Retina or nada (1)

kipjunes (2017894) | more than 3 years ago | (#35502950)

Yes, I totally understand your reasoning. Full disclosure - I actually co-own a biometrics technology firm. We support two types of vascular biometric readers: The palm vein reader [m2sys.com] from Fujitsu and the finger vein reader [m2sys.com] from Hitachi. Neither of these devices also capture fingerprints. Check them out if you are interested and I'm happy to answer any questions about biometrics.

Borg (1)

scurvyj (1158787) | more than 3 years ago | (#35499456)

To the tune of "Spam! Lovely Spam!"...

Borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, assimilation, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg.....

Failure rates ? (1)

RockDoctor (15477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35500050)

Both positive failures
(Mr Diego, we thing you are Sr Domingo, and here is your execution)

and negative failures
(Snr Diego-the-ceramic-salesman, you and your truck of ($excuses$) are welcome, and since you have a US-DEA iris, we'll give you these informers names too. May I swallow?

will happen.

Has your society attempted to understand why one person thinks that they are better than (and more valuable than) AnyRandomclient, who is surveilled.

Oh, obviously time is important. People aren't important, but that is obvious. Who is best?

[self: GLUG]

Who is valuable ? ... Big question.

Yeah, I know why they say they want it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35502182)

... but in the future it will be used for absolutely everything.

Our systems will be monitoring you, your travel, your transactions and your communication. You will comply or face the consequences... and there will be nothing you will be able to do about it.

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