Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

PS3 Hacker Claims He's Jailbroken 3.60 Firmware

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the what-took-so-long? dept.

Sony 176

Wesociety writes "Not one week ago Sony released a new PlayStation 3 firmware update which implemented cloud-saving for its PlayStation Plus subscribers and featured some understandably secretive behind-the-scenes security features meant to prevent future hacking. Today, a hacker is purporting that he broke firmware 3.60 and posted a video to prove it."

cancel ×

176 comments

Unbreakable? (4, Insightful)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518266)

The more you increase your security to keep hackers out, the more feverishly they'll work to take down what they see as a challenge.

Re:Unbreakable? (3, Insightful)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518480)

The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.

Re:Unbreakable? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518874)

So, how long have you been beating your wife?

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519808)

Longer than I care to remember...

Re:Unbreakable? (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519028)

yea that worked well for the psp

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519200)

The PSP got broken at a fundamental HW level and it happened to allow a mod that didn't require any soldering.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

rainmouse (1784278) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519282)

The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.

Also worth noting that Sony absolutely will not give up on this when the teams involved in blocking these hacks can justify a blank cheque budget by scaremongering their bosses with notions of limitless piracy.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519296)

And the more hackers will put together elegant solutions. To tether in iOS 2, you had to set up ssh tunneling over a private wireless network. In iOS 3, setting up tethering involved finding and changing preference files in sometimes random ways until it worked (the released changed preference files often were off by a digit or two somewhere because of AT&T network configurations). In iOS 4, there's a program for $20 in Cydia that does it for you.

Same thing with the actual Jailbreaking. PwnageTool is easier to use and nicer looking than many apps in the Mac App Store...

Once someone releases an XMBC or Boxee setup linux ISO disc with the jailbreak built-in, and all you have to do is burn, insert, click a few buttons, and wait, I bet a bunch more people than just nerds who want the PS3 they paid for back (guilty) and cheaters/game copiers (not guilty) will be jailbreaking their PS3.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518532)

That only works until they have all their holes plugged. See Xbox, homebrew on Xbox1 was extremely popular, homebrew on Xbox360 has a far harder time, as it doesn't work at all with modern Xbox360 and even with older models requires hardware modifications and that is with a console that has been on the market for five years. Sony will certainly have learned their lessons with PS3 and PSP and won't make the same mistakes again. So I wouldn't count to much on hackers breaking the security of whatever comes next, as past successes where in large parts based on the developers not really putting any real effort into the security, not on all security being breakable.

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519212)

> That only works until they have all their holes plugged.

Heh. Heh heh. *snert*

Re:Unbreakable? (2)

Buelldozer (713671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519598)

Are you sure?

Just because they seemed to do a good job THIS time is no guarantee that they will do a good job NEXT time!

Whenever you release new hardware or new software it's a fresh opportunity for mistakes to be made.

It's just as probable that the next generation consoles will not be significantly more secure than this generations are.

Re:Unbreakable? (3, Funny)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519948)

It's just as probable that the next generation consoles will not be significantly more secure than this generations are.

True, just listen to what these companies say about their current gen being hacked beyond hope but the NEXT gen being "too hard to crack THIS time"... it always ends up like Doctor Klaw waving his armored fist and yelling "I'll get you next time, Gadget, NEXT TIME!!!"

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

CharlieHedlin (102121) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519930)

Sony previously avoided the war entirely. Having Other OS kept a great deal of hackers at bay. The problem was a few too many restrictions and tinkers who wanted more power. They would have left the security intact had the system not been crippled from the OtherOS.

Sony should have left well enough alone, fixed the hole, allowed access that people were looking for, and retained Other OS. The war would have quickly fizzled.

As it is now my family gripes every time the thing requires an update to connect and I'm ready to abandon the PS3 completely. I still have a 10GB partition with Linux that I can't use.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35520108)

And yet, piracy is rampant on the xbox 360 thanks to the ability to flash the dvd reader...

In fact, there is very little reason for piracy on the ps3, most games are available for the 360 so anyone serious about pirated games will have already gone down that route years ago. It's not really worth the cost of a ps3 for the very limited number of exclusives, even if you save the price of the games themselves by pirating them.

Re:Unbreakable? (2)

Nocturnal Deviant (974688) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518902)

That is the entire point of hacking in general, to satisfy curiosity. At least true hacking.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

rainmouse (1784278) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519266)

That is the entire point of hacking in general, to satisfy curiosity. At least true hacking.

In most cases like this, its esteem and bragging rights and not necessarily curiosity.
It is a nice side effect when people can have proper access to the devices they purchase but unfortunately it also has the negative side effect of seriously damaging honest users online gaming experience, especially when all the cheating begins.

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519706)

In most cases like this, its esteem and bragging rights and not necessarily curiosity.

Which is why this pisses me off. I am getting sick of having to install new firmware every time I want to watch something on netflix just so that some insecure jerk can feel better about himself.

If you want to hack your machine, build a computer. Console hacking is like hitting a square peg through a round hole; sure you can do it if you're persistent, but is it really worth it?

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519830)

Which is why this pisses me off. I am getting sick of having to install new firmware every time I want to watch something on netflix just so that some insecure jerk can feel better about himself.

The "jerk" who had the audacity to break the DRM or the jerk who insists on requiring the use of DRM?

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519892)

Heh, well played.

I was referring to the first jerk, of coarse. The other jerk is motivated by money, not personal glory.

Re:Unbreakable? (4, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35520270)

I haven't "hacked" my console...
All i have done is fixed it..

When i bought it, it was sold to me on the basis that i can play games on it *and* run linux. I don't play a lot of games (i have 5 for it) but i did want to play gran turismo 5, despite that game saying it's for "ps3", by default i can't play it on the ps3 without sacrificing the ability to run linux...
It doesn't state anywhere on the box that i would have to sacrifice one of the functions i bought the ps3 for in order to continue using another...

I don't play games online with it, but if i wanted to that would be even more ridiculous...

So in the end i have to install a hacked firmware so that i can continue using linux on the ps3 and still play legitimately purchased newer games...

I am probably going to sell my legitimately purchased copy of GT5 and continue playing a pirate copy out of principle - and pirate any future games i want to play, sony don't deserve any more of my money if this is how they treat paying customers.

Re:Unbreakable? (1)

GNious (953874) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519172)

When I did admin at a school, a kid promised to take down our security once we installed it - I decided to not bother (was before Win95). In the end we had no issues.

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519324)

Man, you were definitely a great admin. I especially like how your "security" consisted of one thing that you were going to install. And no, I don't care that this was pre Win95; if it was pre Win1.0 you were still a failure.

Re:Unbreakable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519910)

The more you increase your security to keep hackers out, the more feverishly they'll work to take down what they see as a challenge.

CALLING ALL HACKERS
Direct TV's encryption scheme is impossible to compromise!

They're watching you (2)

lordgun (852080) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518320)

According to Mathieulh, Sony is smart: they're let you log into PSN if you are using the old authentification method from 3.55... and flag you as a thief. http://twitter.com/#!/Mathieulh [twitter.com]

Re:They're watching you (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518402)

Why would you log onto PSN with a modded console?

Re:They're watching you (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518434)

* Netflix
* Multiplayer gaming

Re:They're watching you (2)

Even on Slashdot FOE (1870208) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518444)

Because you want the latest DLC.

And you're an idiot.

Re:They're watching you (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518882)

Modding an overpriced pc clone to act like a pc. Who's the idiot? Overpriced shitty hardware that is filled with DRM. I'll ask again, who's the idiot? Online games are are joke with these consoles. You have no control of your aiming, or anything that takes fine motor skills. First person shooters, PC wins and you get a clearer picture and better framerates. Flying games, PC wins when using a real flightstick. Real time strategy, PC wins due to the slowness and poor targeting of units with a shitty controller. Consoles suck unless you just want a quick way with no attention to detail or are playing motion games like golf or whatever.

Re:They're watching you (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519276)

Games consoles owe their origins to the arcade, and that legacy lives on in the form of arcade-like controls. The keyboard+mouse combo provides by far the best set for FPSs and RTSs. On flight sims and racing games the console does have the edge with stock controls - the analog stick provides far superior fine control for those games. Achieving that on PC requires additional hardware.

Re:They're watching you (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 3 years ago | (#35520028)

The PS3 has some pretty neat hardware. Tell me, what other machine can I buy if I want to dig into Cell programming?

Re:They're watching you (1)

RockoTDF (1042780) | more than 3 years ago | (#35520106)

Or, Consoles win because they are cheaper. You can buy a console for x hundred dollars on release day and play everything that comes out for 3 to 5 years (or beyond, these days). Could you say the same of a PC you built yourself on the same day? And while we are at it, a lot of people aren't "serious" gamers, and therefore would be idiots to shell out thousands on a PC when they could spend hundreds on a console. Plus, you can't have a crowd over and all play on the same PC in the same room. Sure you can have LAN parties, but if you just want to school your friend at Madden or call of duty over a beer, toting over a rig is kind of a hassle.

Am I going to get sued (5, Insightful)

Tigger's Pet (130655) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518338)

Is Sony going to come after me for reading TFA? Do we now need to start incorporating "Caution: Reading the following article may result in you being sued to the ends of the earth" logos over the top of stories?

Re:Am I going to get sued (4, Funny)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518366)

Please assume the party escort position.

Re:Am I going to get sued (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519660)

As we're on slashdot, nobody is going to worry about what happens if someone reads TFA.

Ah, this again. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518384)

Someone spotted the fact that his debug loader properly connected to a PC, apparently something that retail PS3s, no matter how hacked they are, can't do. So for the moment, looking like a fake; basically a debug unit on the latest debug firmware.

Oh SONY.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518398)

... the floodgates have failed.

Re:Oh SONY.... (0)

IronSight (1925612) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518540)

... the floodgates have failed.

Is that a crack on the tsunami? Seriously though, sony, nintendo, nissan, honda, toyota, etc have much more to worry about than a hacker cracking their firmware. As much as I don't like sony right now, I hope the best for everyone in japan right now since they are going through a hard time, and I suggest that anyone who has an extra dime kicking around their changepurse to donate to the red cross right now.

This is why we can't have nice things! (3, Interesting)

Tr3vin (1220548) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518486)

As a PS3 owner, I am getting a bit tired of all the jail-breaking. I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3. I went through the same stuff with the Wii. Everybody talking about the great homebrew scene was but there was barely anything more than emulators. Sure, there were a few new games, but they weren't anything that fantastic. Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles. The PS3 isn't looking much different. All of this talk about being free to do what you want with the console, but people end up just getting their games for free. If you are going to hack the console, at least make it look like you are doing it for a worthwhile reason.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518568)

As a PS3 owner, I say more power to them. Sony stole from me when they removed the OtherOS feature.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (5, Insightful)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518628)

As a PS3 owner, I say more power to them. Sony stole from me when they removed the OtherOS feature.

Basically this.
I'm normally against piracy, but Sony started this war. I'll fight back by never giving them another dollar. And I won't let that get in the way of my enjoying game that happen to be on their platforms.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (4, Insightful)

click2005 (921437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518820)

I'll fight back by never giving them another dollar.

You're going to stop buying games?

Sony gets a percentage of game sales. Its why they subsidize the initial cost of the console.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518990)

Of course he'll stop buying games, he's hoisted the Jolly Roger matey. He's got his "justification" now, the modern Letters of Marque.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Buelldozer (713671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519644)

He will either pirate games OR he will, gasp, BUY THEM USED!

That's right, when you buy the games used Sony makes no money on them.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

dadelbunts (1727498) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519918)

OR not buy them at all. Either way sony will say they lost sales because of piracy and ramp up DRM. How sad when you cant even boycott something by not buying it.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (2)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35520116)

"I'm normally against piracy, but Sony started this war."

All signs point to "Arrrrr".

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Elros (735454) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519166)

That's what I did. Of course I did that after the root kit on the music CD's. Nothing with a Sony label will ever touch anything on my network until they have a few years of behaving themselves.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Tr3vin (1220548) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518710)

They removed that since people were trying to break through the hypervisor. I'm not trying to be overly supportive of Sony, but they have had their reasons.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (5, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519076)

1. And you only beat your wife when she really deserves it?
2. the hypervisor crippled the box.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

TheCRAIGGERS (909877) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519194)

I think that was just the justification they gave for it. They removed it because organizations like the US government were buying PS3s by the pallet-load, installing Linux on them, and clustering them together to make a cheap supercomputer.

You can imagine that didn't sit well at Sony HQ, since they were subsidizing the price with the assumption the customer would buy enough games to make up for the loss.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (3, Informative)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518624)

It's a war of attrition now, one that Sony started by taking away the OtherOS option for no real reason. Then the really smart people that wanted to hack the console for fun or use it for Linux work or clusters or whatever fixed that issue, and then all the script-kiddie hangers-on took it and ran with it after it was broken. If Sony hadn't fired the first shot, they wouldn't have these issues.

I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They made their bed, and they can lie in it.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518740)

Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519240)

....And were unable to use your PS3 for playing games (online at least), since you couldn't log in to the PSN without the update.

Not really unforced is it?

Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519348)

If you didn't update, you also couldn't use PSN.

So, you lose functionality either way: Either PSN (which was an advertised benefit of the system) or OtherOS (which was the advertised benefit of the system).

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519536)

Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?

If you don't update, you don't get to do the other things listed on the box that you paid for, such as playing newer games, connecting to PSN, etc. It only does everything, right?

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518762)

Sony didn't start it. Geohot started it by using Linux as a method of hacking the PS3 (which is why Sony then removed it).

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (5, Informative)

BtEO (960491) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518958)

Sony removed OtherOS from the Slim first. Then Geohot started poking around looking for ways to re-enable it.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519132)

The Slim never featured linux to begin with. They cut out the hardware to enable dual booting the way it had been done in other models to save costs.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519498)

Sony started it. There was nothing stopping the Slim from running Linux.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

PRMan (959735) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519528)

So then it's pretty amazing that Geohot got it working, isn't it? Either that, or Sony was lying and only removed it in software...

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (2)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519668)

Linux never required any hardware above the base. The reason Sony gave for not continuing the OtherOS on the slim is that they didnt want to write new drivers every time they changed the hardware.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (5, Informative)

Dorkmaster Flek (1013045) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519576)

The Slim never featured linux to begin with. They cut out the hardware to enable dual booting the way it had been done in other models to save costs.

Except there was never any hardware required specifically to do that. Geohot got OtherOS working on the slim, thus proving that there was no technical limitation to running it there.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

PwnzerDragoon (2014464) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519968)

Well, THAT certainly worked out well, didn't it?

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

MikeDirnt69 (1105185) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518930)

Let's talk about an outdated blog.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518636)

The best thing on the homebrew scene for the Wii are the media players. It's nice to be able to play videos from my network share on my TV without having a dedicated computer in my living room. I'll agree with you about everything else though. I guess anybody who's really serious about developing homebrew games will just make a WiiWare game. Same goes for XBox, they have XNA for the indie developers. Maybe that's the reason you don't see any quality homebrew. Because people have a better avenue to market and sell their software, even if they are just small time developers. I know I, and many others would pay for a quality media player app. I don't know why there isn't one for sale on WiiWare.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518738)

"Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles."

Please place this blame on Nintendo where it belongs. Regardless of why they did it, THEY are the ones that made the mistake and bricked the unmodded consoles. Had they done their job properly, innocent and loyal customers would not have been affected.

Regardless of if Sony learns their lesson this generation, I'm still praying the hacking community learns theirs. That being: If you jailbreak a console, wait until the fucking thing is retired before publically announcing it. That way you don't have to play nearly as tiring a game of cat and mouse. Jailbreak it asap, fine. Then spend your time doing actual homebrew and apps for it. As soon as it's retired, go ahead and release it ALL at once.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

TheCRAIGGERS (909877) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519264)

Regardless of if Sony learns their lesson this generation, I'm still praying the hacking community learns theirs. That being: If you jailbreak a console, wait until the fucking thing is retired before publically announcing it. That way you don't have to play nearly as tiring a game of cat and mouse. Jailbreak it asap, fine. Then spend your time doing actual homebrew and apps for it. As soon as it's retired, go ahead and release it ALL at once.

Most people want their code to be used by others, and its tough if nobody else has the means to run your code. Or know it exists at all.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519114)

You can't have nice things because you gave Sony money, one of the worst companies on this planet. And then you sit and bitch about the people who are trying to use the hardware the way they choose? Holy fuck man, people like you are the reason we can't have nice things Tr3vin

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519294)

As a PS3 owner, I am getting a bit tired of all the jail-breaking. I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3. I went through the same stuff with the Wii. Everybody talking about the great homebrew scene was but there was barely anything more than emulators. Sure, there were a few new games, but they weren't anything that fantastic.

Well, that's mostly true. Very few people make nice, big games for free. That's true on the PC as much as it is on any console. And once money is involved, then you're left to either follow Sony's/MS's/Nintendo's guidelines on publishing or risk putting yourself in a position where you'll quite possibly be sued for encourage/endorsing jail-breaking which even if legal, it isn't clearly legal (thanks in part to the DMCA) so doesn't absolve one of having to pay all the court fees to prove such; after all, Sony/MS/Nintendo make a good deal of money that way not only in selling development kits but also in the publication.

Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles. The PS3 isn't looking much different.

I'm not really sure how that relates to people jail-breaking their console. If Nintendo, Sony, or MS were to brick an unhacked consoles, then that seems more a PR nightmare for the company; blaming others for it seems rather absurd.

All of this talk about being free to do what you want with the console, but people end up just getting their games for free.

No doubt that is true. Very few people are interesting in actually hacking anything--very few people are hackers or programmers. So, yes, the ratio of pirates is almost certainly much higher than the hacker/enthusiasts. But, that line of argument amounts to saying it's acceptable and reasonable to lock-up PCs as much as consoles. That seems rather absurd as well. Of course, since Sony/MS/Nintendo made their own system and people have generally adopted them as closed, it's not like one should expect them to be open by choice. That still would seem to reasonable leave room, though, for people to open them on their own just as hardware/drivers on the PC have been reverse engineered sufficiently to function.

If you are going to hack the console, at least make it look like you are doing it for a worthwhile reason.

In all honesty, what "worthwhile"-ness is there in any console? It's a game system. Even making games for it wouldn't be very worthwhile. Talk of chaining PS3s together to form a supercomputer is only mildly worthwhile as I don't believe that application is cost-effective anymore. If anything, hacking a PS3 or a Wii or an X-Box 360 would seem to be done for the novelty of it, to see if it's possible, and generally to better understand something that someone else is trying to hide in the open. Once that's done, though, a console is just another computer and there's plenty of computer options already so there's not a lot of reason to target a console for anything.

In short, I don't really disagree with what you're saying about it looking very much like a mad-grab by many for piracy which I'm sure it is. But, I don't think your standards for trying to prove otherwise really match up to the reality of any computer system that's available, especially considering that the "worthwhile" stuff usually involves money and few people or companies want to go to court to avoid the accepted practice of releasing on a platform since such is only likely to cut into profits in the short term with little advantage in the long-term. The finally group that is left are more ideological and care more about "access" and "openness" but in a way that's probably not very worthwhile to most people.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (1)

jones_supa (887896) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519312)

I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3.

I'm afraid that the PS3 is already too complex platform for homebrew individuals/groups to make anything useful for. Even if you had all the specs you'd probably need commercial-level development power to finish stuff.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519526)

As an American, I demand you take yourself off the internet immediately, cancel and disable every potential way to access it, and stay the hell off you terrorist Luddite. While you're at it, get rid of your touch-tone telephones, your cable services, and every digital data-capable device.

What you are railing against and bitching about is exactly the same forces that gave you the capability to be here, now, to bitch about the fact that you can't play without cheaters, or that it gives Sony some reason to enact further more restrictive deals in the future against your property, or whatever you want to bitch about that suggests that it infringes on your individual rights to whatever you want.

It's the things we are doing now, jailbreaking our devices to get the features we bought them for or to extend their capabilities with our rightly bought and paid for hardware, that we did decades ago to fight for the right to have our Internet the way we have it now.

At one time, we couldn't have phones that we didn't specifically buy from AT&T. We couldn't use electric devices that we didn't specifically get from our electric utility owners. Our parents and grandparents fought to have the rights we have now. It is our turn to continue that we ensure our freedoms.

If this is what you want to go back to, go for it. Leave the rest of us alone.

Okay, I will be around your house tomorrow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519912)

I will be making sure you do NOT connect more then one PC to your internet connection as stipulated by some ISP's and we can't take a risk now can we.

I also will be welding the hood of your car down, just so you don't get tempted to mess with the engine and vioate its environmental rating.

There will be an alcohol lock installed and also the car won't drive unless everyone is belted in and has verified with the police they are eligible to drive.

You will enter every airport and security check naked.

You will not buy any gardening material because we all know what that stuff is used for.

You will do without glue for the rest of your life, less you sniff it.

You will surrender every last bit of freedom because someone somewhere might be inconvenienced by it. But mostly you will bend over so big business can have easy access to your ass for the use off.

Alternatively realize freedom has a price. Either you pay it, or your loose it.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35520234)

Generally speaking home-brew is like fan fiction. It's fun to write, it can teach you a lot about the process of writing, and if shared with people with a similar interest on a limited scale can create a rich if small community of constructive criticism and self improvement. However outside the community of creators no one gives a damn about it, and the egotistical cry babies who take themselves too seriously and think their creation, no matter how derivative and poorly executed it is, is a masterpiece give the rest a bad reputation.

In short to everyone who isn't a home-brew developer, killing home-brew is a case of "nothing of value was lost".

Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

MaikB (1877004) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518672)

Disclaimer: I'm not a security expert by any means.

Every time I watch a recorded talk on security I spot the same aim they set them self: Allow two parties to communicate securely, where secure means that a 3rd party can't tap or alter data. This fundamental idea to make this work is that there is a secret that the 3rd party doesn't know. These talks also always assume that the attacker doesn't have physical access to one of the parties.

And that seems to be the fundamental flaw with DRM in physical devices: One does have physical access to them.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (2)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518796)

And that seems to be the fundamental flaw with DRM in physical devices: One does have physical access to them.

That is the fatal theoretical logical flaw with DRM.

But in practice:
a) They figure maybe they can hide the secret well enough that you won't be able to find it.

b) They figure that if they can keep you looking for it long enough, it will be a success even if you do eventually find it. If the gamecube were just cracked yesterday, its DRM would have been an unqualified success.

c) They figure they can pass enough laws making looking for the secret, talking about the secret, and using the secret if you find it illegal that few will be motivated to find it, and fewer still will risk spreading or using it.

They've been right enough I guess.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

Fulg (138866) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519292)

[...]

But in practice:
a) They figure maybe they can hide the secret well enough that you won't be able to find it.

b) They figure that if they can keep you looking for it long enough, it will be a success even if you do eventually find it. If the gamecube were just cracked yesterday, its DRM would have been an unqualified success.

[...]

I'd say it worked well enough for Sony (not that I agree with them on this). It took 5 years for the PS3 security system to be broken... Compare to the Wii (instant) or the Xbox 360 (within the first year).

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (3, Insightful)

PRMan (959735) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519542)

Nobody was motivated, because of Other OS.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (4, Informative)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519726)

Took significantly less then 5 years to crack the PS3. The people who ended up finding the right stuff werent even looking until motivated by Sony.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519766)

OtherOS was Sony's greatest deterrent to hacking it. Until they decided to start shipping PS3's without it, nobody really bothered trying to crack it. After they removed it from everyone, their security fell rather quickly.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

killmenow (184444) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518816)

Useless? Obviously not. Major content producing companies and their lobbying groups have found uses for DRM.

Useless as a means to prevent copying? Yes. If it can be read, it can be copied.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519000)

Although in the case of the PS3, it took a damn long time. If you're willing to burn enough money, it is possible to keep people busy for quite a while. In the case of the PS3, which is near the end of its lifespan (the PS4 comes out end 2012, or early 2013 at the latest), I think the virtual locks have been worth every yen. Sadly.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

MaikB (1877004) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519118)

It took a damn long time not because their DRM was so good, but because hackers had no reason to break though it, aka OtherOS.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

mistiry (1845474) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519538)

If I had mod points I'd mod you up, this OBVIOUS point is missed all the time.

"It took 5 years for someone to break the PS3".

How many of those years was the OtherOS option available, 3 1/2? 4? Once Sony removed OtherOS, it wasn't long until it was broken.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (3, Insightful)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518860)

The PS3's DRM was unbroken for half a decade. Now, part of the reason it was so successful was because enthusiasts had access to many features they wanted via the OtherOS functionality, but the fact remains that there was virtually zero piracy of PS3 games for the first 5 years of it's life cycle. Even today with much of the DRM defeated, Piracy rates are still next to zero. Now compare that to the average nerdy college dorm room with a hacked XBox playing downloaded copies of everything from the latest AAA titles to old Atari games (though I suppose you could always play old games via emulators in Linux on the PS3).

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (1)

MaikB (1877004) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519094)

Considering what was said at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4loZGYqaZ7I [youtube.com] the only reason why the PS3 hasn't been breached earlier is just because nobody tried. The only difference to other consoles, that according to the keynote have superior security, is OtherOS. Hence OtherOS is the reason for the fact that there was no piracy on the PS3.

AFAIK it wasn't even meant to hold hackers from poking the PS3, but to get an tax relief in some area of the world. So the lack of piracy was just a side effect of OtherOS. A side effect that earned them billions, I guess.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519258)

A side effect that earned them billions, I guess.

What, are you saying that if people can't pirate games they buy them? This runs entirely counter to the self-justification used by pirates. Now I'm just confused.

Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519956)

"Every time I watch a recorded talk on security I spot the same aim they set them self: Allow two parties to communicate securely, where secure means that a 3rd party can't tap or alter data. This fundamental idea to make this work is that there is a secret that the 3rd party doesn't know. These talks also always assume that the attacker doesn't have physical access to one of the parties."

Bravo. But it's more useless than that.

DRM is about allowing A to talk to B securely so that C can't interfere/listen in/whatever. That is correct.

Furthermore, A talks to B by sharing a super secret code that C has no way of obtaining and thus is left out of the loop. This is also correct.

Where DRM breaks down is that B is also C. So A is giving the super secret key to B. But C has or can easily obtain access to the super secret key because A is actually giving it to them.

And this is why it is impossible to build a DRM that is unbreakable. You can try to make it harder than changing "unregistered" to "registered" in a config.txt file, but it will only be a matter of time.

Sony hurting non-hacking customers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518802)

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the semi-weekly upgrades. I don't hack my console.

Sony ... you're inconveniencing ME!! I suggest you re-think your strategy and limit the security upgrades, as you'll never stay ahead in any case.

Re:Sony hurting non-hacking customers (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519328)

Amen.

I game fairly infrequently, but it seems lately that every time I turn my machine on to play a quick game of something simple (currently plants vs. zombies) I have to wait an hour while it pulls some update (which probably provides no new functionality and is purely to screw with modders) from their disturbingly slow servers.

Better be careful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518806)

Sorny may sue ya. Oops, they may get a judge to give them my IP Address. I am sorry Sorny!

new security useless due to exposed master key? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518810)

Given that GeoHot published the master key for the world to see, aren't any new security measures essentially useless? Don't all future firmwares and consoles need to honor code signed with that key or risk incompatibility with all old games and content?

Just Give Me OtherOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518818)

I have to believe that if we could install Linux via the OtherOS feature, and use the PS3 for what it is (a somewhat powerful CBE computer), then a lot fewer people would be jail breaking anyway. And why should Sony care anyway? It's not like people who want to use the CBE capabilities of the PS3 are doing so at the expense of purchasing games from Sony.

I would be more than happy to purchase an *additional* PS3 if it meant I could use it as a CBE computer, and use my normal PS3 for gaming / Blue-Ray / Streaming Netflix.

you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a ps3 (2)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518852)

vote with your wallet.

Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519006)

Exactly. That is why I stole my PS3 from Gamestop. Of course now Gamestop is suing and trying to have me prosecuted, but that is beside the point. I sure stuck it to Sony!

Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519630)

but they will still try to find out who you are if you comment on any hacks, regardles if you're in a position to act on it or not :>

Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519942)

Yes, but if you distribute the signing keys, they send the federal government after you for providing tools to break digital encryption.

If you're lucky enough to live in the U.S. anyway.

Screw Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35518890)

What maroons! First they sue GeoHot. Now they will probably go after this guy! By the time it is all over, Sony will have driven itself into the underground!

jailbroken or new firmware based on 3.60? (1)

FunkyELF (609131) | more than 3 years ago | (#35518908)

Does this mean you can jailbreak a PS3 that is on stock 3.60 or is this just a custom firmware based on 3.60 that you can install from one of the earlier jailbreakable versions?

Debunked (5, Interesting)

FLEABttn (1466747) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519090)

He's running a dev unit. 3.60 has not been jailbroken. This was non-news when this video surfaced two days ago because it was debunked mere hours later. Glad to see Slashdot posting articles in a timely fashion.

Tired of updates (1)

j33px0r (722130) | more than 3 years ago | (#35519268)

I'm tired of the constant updates from Sony that have no benefit or effect upon me using my PS3. I'm ok with them trying to stop someone from jail-breaking the system but the lousy download speeds from their server really make it kind of inconvenient. A 176MB download at 50-100/kbs? Come on, seriously?

I brought home a game yesterday only to find that they wanted me to sit around and update the firmware AND the game. I updated neither and guess what? The beasties suffered from my holy wrath all the same! Of course, I cannot gloat by sharing my trophies with the world but, then again, I kind of like being an unsung hero.

MatthieuLH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35519334)

isn't it the same video as MatthieuLH claim he did 2-3 days ago?

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...