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Well of course (2, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about 3 years ago | (#35549642)

You get what you pay for. Oh wait. Defend this one, Apple fans.

Re:Well of course (5, Insightful)

mikael_j (106439) | about 3 years ago | (#35549664)

Do you want a list of Dell models that my employer has concluded have design flaws or do you just want to fling mud at Apple? (here's a hint: Every manufacturer has issues with their machines, including Apple).

Re:Well of course (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549686)

Uhm, not to be impolite, but I must ask.
Are you sure you can?, won't your MacBook crash while handling such a huge list?

Re:Well of course (1)

mikael_j (106439) | about 3 years ago | (#35549728)

Oh, I've never owned a Macbook. My only portable machines at the moment are a Lenovo Ideapad and a Dell Precision M4440 (the Ideapad being the reliable one, the M4400 seems to enjoy having random drivers crash).

Re:Well of course (3)

amiga3D (567632) | about 3 years ago | (#35549904)

Cheap Dell's are a roll of the dice. I've got a 1545 that works flawlessly now that I wiped the malware off that it came with and installed Ubuntu. Not bad for 400 bucks.

Re:Well of course (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549716)

Difference being you don't pay £1000 for the spec included in a £400 Dell. (Sadly, not an understatement)
I have an iMac and it's great - the hardware is fantastic. However I expect it work perfectly and have been tested very thoroughly.
I have a machine that plays Crysis on full graphics sat next to it that cost a little under the price of the Mac. Stupid.

Re:Well of course (2, Informative)

beelsebob (529313) | about 3 years ago | (#35549776)

Difference being you don't pay £1000 for the spec included in a £400 Dell. (Sadly, not an understatement)

Oh? Which £400 dell has a quad core sandy bridge i7 in it?

Re:Well of course (4, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | about 3 years ago | (#35549932)

You don't get a sandy bridge i7 in a Mac for 1000 pounds, either. Your point?

Re:Well of course (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | about 3 years ago | (#35550038)

Considering that you can get a laptop with a quad core i7 in it for under $2000 CAD, a year ago (when I bought mine), I would not be surprised to find a desktop in the 400 pound range that has an i7 in it. Since I'm not shopping for it at the moment, I haven't looked at current pricing.

Re:Well of course (3, Insightful)

petermgreen (876956) | about 3 years ago | (#35550080)

Note: since the GP quoted in pounds i'm using UK prices from both dell and apple.

A £999 inc VAT and shipping (closest price in this list to £1000) macbook pro comes with a 13 inch screen and a 2.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5. Unfortunately the model number wikipedia lists for the CPU doesn't seem to match up with anything on intels website but assuming the turbo is similar to the models that straddle it it would have a max turbo with all cores active arround 2.8 GHz. If you want a 15 inch machine with a quad core (there is no option for a 15 inch with a dual core or a 13 inch with a quad core that will set you back £1,549.00 inc VAT and shipping)

Comparing to dell it depends what you compare with. If you compare to the 13 inch vostro 3300 with an i5-480M then a machine with similar specs (older processor family but higher clockspeed so probablly overall similar) is £559.00 plus VAT and shipping which will put the total arround £700. OTOH if you compare to the 15 inch vostro line (in PC laptops 15 inch models tend to be cheaper than equivilent 13 inch models) then things get cheaper still.

So the GP was exaggerating a bit but still there is a fairly steep premium for apple hardware and this is compounded by apple's very limited selection which means you often end up buying far more than you actually require.

Re:Well of course (0)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 3 years ago | (#35549792)

Last time I went and customised a laptop to have everything my macbook pro like a lit keyboard and bluetooth (yes Dell considered that an extra) it was reach the same price. Once I would buy the same sized SSD from another company to replace the hard drive it would have cost the same if not more and it still would have been in a shitty plastic case rather than a nice aluminium case that is dead silent and cool something you won't get from a dell.

I'm also willing to put good money it won't run as long as the macbook on its battery.

Re:Well of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549820)

You must not do much real work on your Macbook Pro if you consider it dead silent. Sure it is, while browsing the web. Try compiling or doing any graphics intensive games. Spins up quite loud.

Re:Well of course (1)

nOw2 (1531357) | about 3 years ago | (#35549946)

That's not my experience with the unibody machines. Thermals on the 2009 MBP 15" are really good - yes, full CPU will get the fans up to 6200RPM but I'm really very impressed overall. It takes a lot to get them to spin up and even then they're nice and quiet considering the RPM they're doing.

Contrast that with the plastic bodied ~2007 MacBook - I found that the single fan would spin up high at the slightest provocation and be louder than the two in the MBP for the same RPM.

Gold plated (2, Insightful)

perpenso (1613749) | about 3 years ago | (#35550028)

Last time I went and customised a laptop to have everything my macbook pro like a lit keyboard and bluetooth (yes Dell considered that an extra) it was reach the same price.

This type of argument has been bogus for *many* years, ie "but Macs have SCSI drives" of decades past. Its not the features present its the features actually needed/used. Macs have often been "gold plated" to a degree, including features only a small number of high end users needed/wanted. It is honest to say this inflates the price for more ordinary users. Last time I took a close look, a few years ago, the MacBook looked like to be a better deal than the MacBook Pro due to the "gold plating". The ordinary MacBook would have made a better comparison against Dells.

Re:Well of course (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549730)

Not every company has the balls to charge 2k for 1k in hardware, and 1k in software that is built off of free software... that then freezes under load.

Re:Well of course (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549796)

It only freezes when people are holding it wrong. If they would just use it properly there is no problem. But, just to be nice guys, Apple will give people a free "cooling case" if they call in with their problem.

Re:Well of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549748)

At least with Dells you only pay like half or a third of the price of a MacBook...

Re:Well of course (1, Insightful)

mjwx (966435) | about 3 years ago | (#35549758)

Do you want a list of Dell models that my employer has concluded have design flaws or do you just want to fling mud at Apple? (here's a hint: Every manufacturer has issues with their machines, including Apple).

As long as you provide a list of Dell models that did not have problems of this magnitude.

Then provide a list of Apple models that have had serious design flaws and compare it to the list of those that haven't.

Dell release 20 or so laptop models or more a year, Apple releases 3, the price of failure is higher for Apple because they have not diversified as much as Dell.

Re:Well of course (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549790)

To an extent, yes, every manufacturer has released machines with hardware problems. However, the "Apple Tax" is supposedly justified by machines with premium engineering that "just work". This sure sounds a whole lot like a serious cooling problem, something that's simply unacceptable for a midrange laptop that costs $2k

Re:Well of course (4, Insightful)

roachdabug (1198259) | about 3 years ago | (#35550066)

From what I've heard, being a "premium" Apple engineer is not so fun... You hear a lot of things like, "The outer metal band HAS to be the antenna, I don't care what the problem is, just make it work!"

Lemons deserve mud (2, Informative)

perpenso (1613749) | about 3 years ago | (#35549856)

Do you want a list of Dell models that my employer has concluded have design flaws or do you just want to fling mud at Apple? (here's a hint: Every manufacturer has issues with their machines, including Apple).

Yes every company has the occasional lemon but they deserve to have mud flung at the lemon. It's part of the incentive system to get it right.

Part of the justification of higher prices for Macs is that they are of higher quality than Dells. So your argument is not convincing. Furthermore what percentage of Dell's laptop sales does your list represent? Are they high end models? Compare that to what percentage of Apple laptop sales the MacBook Pro represents and where the MacBook Pro stands with respect to Apple's high end offerings.

In short, IF the reports of problems are bogus then flame on. But IF the reports of problems are accurate why excuse them?

Re:Well of course (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549956)

Here's a hint: Every manufacturer hasn't a cult following, unlike Apple

Re:Well of course (1, Insightful)

Patch86 (1465427) | about 3 years ago | (#35549994)

Dells are cheap mass-produced trash- you get what you pay for, and no less than you expect.

If you pay nearly twice the going rate for a premium product, you might expect it to be somewhat closer to flawless. You expect your £100k Bentley to run perfectly, while you might forgive the Chevvy Matiz given away free with your Happy Meal for breaking down every time it rains.

Yes yes, I know, oblig.

Re:Well of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35550088)

You mean like how Ferrari's are prone to electrical problems, or how Lamborghini has recalled models due to a fuel pump problem ? Every company has problems sometimes, get over it.

Re:Well of course (0)

Posting=!Working (197779) | about 3 years ago | (#35550008)

Go ahead and make that list. I'll make my own list here. Alternatives when you need a new laptop and all your software is for Mac and Apple's manufacturing and/or design has serious flaws:

...and I'm done. How's your list coming along?

Re:Well of course (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 3 years ago | (#35549668)

You get what you pay for. Oh wait. Defend this one, Apple fans.

This is a 'Crisitunity' [urbandictionary.com] for Apple. They never do a good job addressing these things which is surprising considering they do such a great job with pre-sale marketing & PR.

Re:Well of course (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549726)

Pre-sale marketing & PR gets the sale (i.e. money).
Everything else doesn't matter. The people will buy whatever you sell them and keep buying, even if it doesn't work.

Re:Well of course (4, Interesting)

Culture20 (968837) | about 3 years ago | (#35550068)

I like Dell because their support actually listens to me. "the cooling fan died" is met with a question of whether I need a technician or just the part. When I call Apple and tell them that an iMac overheats to the point of locking up, they call me a liar and hang up "if it doesn't turn off, its not overheating" Oh, really, then why is it locked up and so hot?

Re:Well of course (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549704)

Apple blows, its blown since it was created in 1976 and it will continue to blow until Steve Jobs dies. At which point it will disintegrate into nothing.

Re:Well of course (1)

mjwx (966435) | about 3 years ago | (#35549740)

You get what you pay for. Oh wait. Defend this one, Apple fans.

This story is false and any evidence to the contrary merely coincidence.

Further more, we are at war with Eurasia, we have always been at war with Eurasia.

Re:Well of course (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about 3 years ago | (#35549874)

Apple has made lemons before, actually called Road Apples. From time to time they do make mistakes and of course when you charge a premium for hardware it's inevitable that you'll catch a lot of grief when you mess up. They tend to be slow to admit mistakes too. When they finally realize it's inevitable they'll bite the bullet and fix the problem but in the meantime it can be ugly. If I bought a laptop for 2 grand and it choked on video transcoding and other processor intensive stuff like these seem to be doing I'd pitch a bitch too.

Re:Well of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549978)

Apple release its share of hardware with problems, it's inevitable really. I was bitten myself by a problem with the EU version of the AppleTV 2 a while back, it inverted colors randomly when connected to some TV models of some particular brands (it's since been fixed.) The problem with Apple is that they work behind the scenes on a fix but they don't communicate that to their customers at all and they'll rarely admit to any kind of problem in public. This is frustrating but they do actually fix their problems which is more than can be said for some other manufacturers.

Re:Well of course (5, Informative)

philj (13777) | about 3 years ago | (#35549896)

Having read the linked thread, it looks like it's an ATI graphics card driver problem. You can still ssh into a machine that has "crashed under load".

Has Timmeh lost his mind? (0)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about 3 years ago | (#35549648)

How is this in any way newsworthy? A two-line description linking to an ad-heavy forum post about how computers sometimes don't work well when you have a lot of heavy processes running isn't really "News for Nerds".

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (2)

webmistressrachel (903577) | about 3 years ago | (#35549672)

Yes, yes it is. I'm running a table with a single-core Pentium 4, 512Mb of Ram, Intel 945gm graphics and Windows 7 on a 60Gb hard drive, and I expect it NOT to crash. Slow down, maybe,churn, make me frustrated (lol), but I haven't seen computers crash and burn without reason (like faulty drivers, hardware fault) for at least 5 years.

So this IS news for nerds, fanboi. As in, it's news when a computer company with margins like Apple lets its customers down in the name of profit, and nerds (who buy computers) need to know about it. News for nerds.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about 3 years ago | (#35549720)

I'm guessing you're not running your P4 isn't stuffed into a cheap Chinese laptop with an expensive sticker on the front?

My point still stands - people buying crappy cheap commodity hardware shouldn't be surprised when it has problems. No amount of groovy industrial design can make up for a dodgy Foxconn motherboard that's as crap as a Chinese motorbike.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

anomaly256 (1243020) | about 3 years ago | (#35549752)

Dude please, Chinese motorbikes are awesome. They just keep going and going.. I saw one there being held together with chicken wire, wood planks, and grass rope and still kicking along fine. I'd like to see a macbook do that!

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 3 years ago | (#35549774)

Dude please, Chinese motorbikes are awesome. They just keep going and going.. I saw one there being held together with chicken wire, wood planks, and grass rope and still kicking along fine. I'd like to see a macbook do that!

As I'm sure you're aware, all Mac compatible accessories including the aforementioned 'chicken wire, wood planks, and grass rope' are specially designed for enduser delight and are therefore priced accordingly.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 3 years ago | (#35549910)

See that is the parent posters point! If it had not been for the fact that some part of the bike failed none of that chicken wire and wood would be there. The parts from the OEM were so poor that wood and chicken wire do it better.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | about 3 years ago | (#35549764)

It's a Toshiba Satellite R10 tablet, not a "table" as I mistakenly typed above, and it is VERY slow, but it, like all the other systems I have owned for maybe 10 years+, including my 800MHz Pentium 3 server box (running since 2004 with nary a glitch!), it just doesn't crash and "burn" like stuff used to. It doesn't matter who made it and when, if it works it's great and if it doesn't, then it's not. Apple's markup should allow for a rigorous quality control setup, but obviously in this case Apple has missed the mark.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (2)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 3 years ago | (#35549822)

I'd say it's more newsworthy because my macbook pro is one version before the 2011 and I can put it under quite a load. To the point I get concerned with how hot it feels but since I'm gaming I find it hard to quit. Anyway, it's never crashed. If the new macbooks are crashed over heavy use then there is probably a flaw somewhere which needs to be resolved.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549684)

Yeah, talking about how one of the world's most overhyped companies with the most zealous fanboys produces a lemon of a computer that crashes when being stressed is totally not "News for Nerds".

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1, Funny)

commodore64_love (1445365) | about 3 years ago | (#35549744)

Well here's my opinion on this Apple overheating situation:

On second thought, never mind. (runs away from AppleFans wielding the -1 mod stick)

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1, Flamebait)

webmistressrachel (903577) | about 3 years ago | (#35549782)

Too late. Running away hasn't helped you - and it won't help me. You're at -1, hun. Oh well, bring on the flamewar. Next, they'll be calling me a fat bitch (which I'm not).

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549860)

A female nerd on slashdot? Did it snow in hell today or something? I must hit that...

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (2)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | about 3 years ago | (#35549746)

Clearly you have low expectations of your computing system. What is your primary platform?

You should try a VAX running VMS in 1985. VMS has had fine grained per-process resource limits since forever and degrades very gracefully. And overheating? My MicroVAX also makes an excellent space heater, but that doesn't seem to bother it.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (1)

StripedCow (776465) | about 3 years ago | (#35549840)

Problem is, my cellphone outperforms a VAX in terms of FLOPS, even if it crashes once a week.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549802)

You have a point.

Apple aren't a computer company. They produce expensive toys for latte-sipping metrosexual fashion victims.

It's not really slashdot material.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549876)

"ad-heavy forum post"? It links to apple's support forum where there are 29 pages of people discussing the problem they are having with overpriced hardware that doesn't deliver. Time to have a reality check apple fanboi.

Re:Has Timmeh lost his mind? (2)

Dunbal (464142) | about 3 years ago | (#35549968)

Ad heavy forum post? There is not one single ad on the website (which happens to be the official Apple support forum) or in the posts I saw. You sure you clicked the right link?

Oh come on !!! Give them a slack !! (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#35549654)

Apple does products that 'just work'.

dont dare say anything in contrast - else endless legions of applebois will talk smack to you and prove that those apples didnt crash.

Re:Oh come on !!! Give them a slack !! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549964)

It's a feature! Anyone running that many processes obviously needs to take a break.

The Great Debate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549660)

Commence Mac vs. PC debate starting in 3...2...1...

Re:The Great Debate (5, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 3 years ago | (#35549718)

Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac.
PC: Hi, I'm a PC.
[Mac slows down and starts to crash]
Mac: Hey, what's happening to me?
[PC reaches over and starts tickling Mac]
PC: Stop crashing yourself! Stop crashing yourself!
Mac: This isn't supposed to happen! What's going on?
PC: Been there, done that. Get used to it.
Mac: Save me Stevie Won Kejobsie, save me!

Michael Sims: Gay Nazi Conspirator (1)

Smidge207 (1278042) | about 3 years ago | (#35549670)

Few today haven't felt the touch of censorship that is Michael Sims's modus operandi. Anything labelled subversive by this fascist editor is immediately moderated to -1 and its poster's account subjected to all sorts of terrible modifications meant to make it impossible to reveal the truth about Michael Sims. Truth that I, in this exposé, will reveal to you. Having killed his mother in childbirth, Michael was left with only his father to raise him, a man with well-documented social disorders and sick sexual fetishes. During his youth, Michael Sr. was known by the nickname “Mikey the Twink,” a reference to his thin, hairless body, and chest that was smaller than his waist, like a young boy's. The crowd Mikey the Twink ran with was more than just a little questionable. How many times would you have been allowed to arrive home at midnight with your clothes torn and semen leaking out of your bruised mouth? Well, this was San Francisco, and evidently Michael Sr. got away with this behavior while he was growing up gay on the mean streets of the Faggot Sex Capitol of the world. Fast-forward to middle age, and this homosexual cock-lusting faggot is left with a son to rear. No wonder the Michael Sims we all know is so angry and apt to censor! By the age of 13, Michael Sims had endured years of sexual abuse at the hands of his father and other relatives: let's be frank about this! Michael was forced to suck his father's erect penis while his “Aunt” Jack would penetrate Michael's anus with his 5" thick throbbing meatpole. All while “Father” O'Reilly (yes, the same publisher Tim O'Reilly of Open Source fame) videotaped the gay orgies with a tripod as he sodomized young Michael's penis with his hot tongue or made Michael eat his hairy Irish asshole out!!! Occasionally a ruddy streetman named Eric would join in the festivities and rub his crooked dick on Michael's smooth face and cover the lad in cumshot as he dribbled Jägermeister all over himself, singing the praises of Open Sauce and being surprised by cock. Too many years of cum-baths and anal sex had gotten to Michael. In the wee hours of April 19, 1993, at the tender age of 16, Michael Sims secretly boarded a plane to Germany to join the Hitler Youth, hoping to escape the the excess sodomy in his life while gaining some discipline in the process. Little did Michael know that he was going from the frying pan and into the flames. Upon entering the Hitler Youth, Michael smiled for the first time in his cock-filled life. He was surrounded by boys of all ages, and his cock-lust — cultivated by years of faggotry at his father's hand — blossomed in the harsh environment of the Hitler Youth. Michael progressed rapidly through the ranks until one day, he was called upon to serve in the elite SS. And then the bottom of Michael's world fell out. Michael was greeted not by Adolf Hitler (long dead by now) or any other Nazi. Michael Sims was instead greeted by a homosexual face from the past: the insidious, ruddy complexion of ESR, the streetman named Eric that had fornicated him years ago! Yes, ESR was the dastardly Deutsch Gas Baron, and the Hitler Youth was nothing but a faggot recruiting front to satiate the twink-lust of ESR! For the next six years, Michael Sims was almost constantly involved in some sort of homosexual activity, either sampling the famous gay bars of München, training recruits new to Raymond's Youth Corps (the facade of Hitler having since been dropped), or satisfying ESR's bottomless hunger for gay faggot cum-lusting sex. Michael was even one of the first Germans to contract HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. ESR's stake in Michael increased, as did Michael's lust for ESR's thin erect cock, until finally Michael had been made a general in ESR's diabolic Gas Barony. And it was at this time that Michael was given his very own life-long mission. ESR needed someone that could take the literary world in their faggot hand and turn it to use for ESR and his worldwide Petroleum Fiefdom: propaganda for Crude Oil and Faggotry! Who better than Michael? His first objective was to find a platform with which to gather mainstream literary credibility. Enter Censorware.org, which Michael infiltrated and later destroyed. Read the story of censorship, terrorism and ransom here. And do not forget it. With Censorware destroyed, Michael's name got out into the Nazi and Faggot literary scenes, leading to the day that he received a phone call from none other than Rob Malda, of Slashdot.org, whose staff were the most desperate of homosexuals and whose editors were most Nazi-like in nature. Rob Malda was offering Michael Sims a job. Michael had finally found his home and means of completing his homosexual mission. To this day he enjoys gay anal sex all day and all night, and a way to censor the truth-bringers, like me, on a whim.

you are loading it wrong (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549676)

whait a minute, you are loading it wrong.

2011 MBP a stinker? (2, Insightful)

Manip (656104) | about 3 years ago | (#35549692)

First we had people pull them apart and report poor build quality, then we had complaints over the insane price of components in Apple's store, and now we have the machines freezing up? I'm all for people spending a little more and getting a higher quality machine but Apple needs to keep up their end of the bargain.

What does Apple have to say one the build quality concerns? The last thing they need is to be considered no better than HP, Gateway, and Dell. Overall I don't think laptops are built "fit for purpose" and haven't been since the IBM days (although business laptops are better). I love all the Dell laptops with 2 hours battery life out-of-the-bx in particular, very useful concept...

Re:2011 MBP a stinker? (1)

moderators_are_w*nke (571920) | about 3 years ago | (#35549926)

The Santa Rosa one I have was bad as well. I've got through 2 GPUs and now it has a habit of locking up with the screen flashing every now and then.

My old Powerbook G4 was awesome though, I think the move to Intel may have been more of an exercise in cheaper manufacturing than technical excellence.

Re:2011 MBP a stinker? (1)

nOw2 (1531357) | about 3 years ago | (#35549982)

First we had people pull them apart and report poor build quality

One report of some internal untidiness! One!

I love all the Dell laptops with 2 hours battery life out-of-the-bx in particular, very useful concept...

I've had a couple of MBPs pass through my hands in the last year (one new and one refurb, zero defects) - both came fully charged which I thought was a nice touch.

Re:2011 MBP a stinker? (5, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 3 years ago | (#35549990)

My macbook pro easily meets the 7 hour battery life they've claimed (mine is one version before the 2011), it's almost always nearly as cool as when it's off, it's dead silent, starts up and is at a functional desktop within 5 seconds and yes it looks better with it's metal case than some cheap plastic one and it's thinner than what I'd get from Dell. Despite being thinner things like the lid feel much sturdier than a Dell and it comes with everything. THere are even small touches like being able to check the battery life without even turning it on.

I can't vouch for their newest model. It may be utter shit. But having gone through the process of pricing up laptops to get everything I have in my macbook it would cost nearly as much or more in some cases. Part of the reason for this is it seems to be nearly impossible to get an SSD in a laptop which seems retarded but you're looking at quite a big bump up in the price to add the equivalent sized SSD into a Wintel laptop.

Again even if you do get all those things it will still be in a cheap plastic case, it will almost certainly still be thicker, run warmer and louder. I don't think it's any surprise a lot of developers can be seen with Macbooks even if they aren't running OS X. The hardware is quality and it's built in such a way that you end up with something that resembles what a laptop should be rather than some big ugly plastic thing that gives you back pains carrying it around.

People need to take a break from their anti-apple circle jerk and remember that the newest macbook features brand new technology in it like Intel's Thunderbolt. It is just as likely that can cause problems even if you're not actually plugging anything into the port. One thing Apple does do that many other companies don't is adapt new technologies sooner and as a result are more likely to get bit in the ass by something going wrong. One of two things will happen. It can be resolved in a short period through software or maybe the 2011 models will just be notorious for being rubbish and smart people will pass on them and wait for the next iteration where the issue may not exist.

Alternatively they could have had a bad batch of components. It happens to everyone. Just look at how many companies that were affected by Sony's shitty laptop batteries. But of course some people just like to hate on things they can't afford.

Re:2011 MBP a stinker? (1)

Lifyre (960576) | about 3 years ago | (#35550082)

I tend to agree with you especially when it comes to 90% of the offerings out there. That said I bought from a smaller company that me and my friends have had good luck with for a few years and have been impressed with the material and build quality I got for newer parts and lower prices than I could have gotten from the big guys.

If you want a laptop that is solidly built and has decent battery life (I get more than 4 hours of real use) perhaps you should start looking for a reputable smaller builder.

Probably thermal paste issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549734)

If this is the same issue that the apple laptops faced when they switched over to intel processors, than it's a manufacturing issue with not enough thermal paste being applied. It happens because of people's fanatical need to have the slimmist iThing on the market, so Apple's laptops are very sensitive to overheating because proper heat dissipation is the LAST thing on their minds.

Re:Probably thermal paste issue (2)

gimpboy (34912) | about 3 years ago | (#35549766)

You've clearly been reading up on this because that is essentially the opposite of what was concluded on the thread referenced in the initial posting. The only public strip down from iFixit shows ample thermal paste being used (they think it's too much). I've been working with this for the last week and my vote goes to a driver or firmware issue.

Re:Probably thermal paste issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35550012)

I have a not-so 'similar' problem with my secondary C2D M11x laptop. Very occasionally a single core randomly deadlocks causing 100% idle load. A DirectX driver (dxgkrnl.sys) is triggering millions of hardware interrupts. I figure I'll run a kernel debugger next weekend to trace the problem.

The joys of inferior laptop drivers and hardware. I still miss desktops, fleetingly and about twice a year.

Re:Probably thermal paste issue (2)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | about 3 years ago | (#35549934)

Mod parent up.

I was thinking the same. Article to excessive thermal paste on Slahdot: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/02/28/233215/New-MacBook-Pro-Teardown-Reveals-Shoddy-Assembly [slashdot.org]

When Apple switched to Intel, the first MacBook Pro machines had thermal issues due to too much paste. It seems Apple addressed this issue in manufacture in later models, but it has reappeared in the 2011.

Re:Probably thermal paste issue (1)

dimeglio (456244) | about 3 years ago | (#35549976)

Steve Jobs hates noisy fans. I hear there's often unreasonable demands made to the hardware engineering group - remember the Apple ///? - which might be the cause of this little problem. A software patch to make the fan come on earlier would probably fix it.

Apple is Notorious for Going "Cheap" on Hardware (0)

GSpot (134221) | about 3 years ago | (#35549780)

This is not surprising. Apple it famous for overcharging for underpowered hardware. Steve just gives barely enough performance so that his products are marginally usable, yet you are first in line for the next release to get that 10% bump in performance.

Re:Apple is Notorious for Going "Cheap" on Hardwar (1)

JamesP (688957) | about 3 years ago | (#35549832)

How's battery life on the competition again?!

And I wouldn't call a i5 notebook 'underpowered'.

Re:Apple is Notorious for Going "Cheap" on Hardwar (1)

MadChicken (36468) | about 3 years ago | (#35549868)

Explain how a quad-core i7 laptop is underpowered, please & thanks.

Re:Apple is Notorious for Going "Cheap" on Hardwar (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about 3 years ago | (#35550062)

Yeah, poor me, I only get 1 hr battery life out of my quad core i7 laptop with the 17 inch screen, 1GB GeForce 360M video card that will pretty much run everything at lightning speed. That, and my laptop is now a year old. But hey, I'm never more than 1 hour away from a plug, either. And I guess if I'm just answering email or something I can turn on the power-saving mode. Oh and guess what - this machine is around half the price of a MacBook... and you had to wait a whole year to get it. Starting from $2499 at the Apple store...

no apple likes thin and does not like fans / noise (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | about 3 years ago | (#35550018)

no apple likes thin and does not like fans / noise and that's why a $1200 and $1500 system have on board video.

Come make a little bigger system with better cooling.

Re:Apple is Notorious for Going "Cheap" on Hardwar (1)

Lifyre (960576) | about 3 years ago | (#35550106)

Honestly I think this is one of those what's old is new again kind of things. There was a number of years in the middle where the components and build quality at Apple was phenomenal. It just looks like Apple is trying to go back to being irrelevant in the PC market, it's not like they really care when they have the iPod, iPhone, and iPad cash cows to milk...

Anecdotal evidence go (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549784)

I work in a service environment for Macs. A top store for sales (non-apple store). We have not seen this issue yet, but one of our employees actually returned his new machine because of a kernel panic using Logic. Could be related. I suspect the majority of our customers don't put the machines through much.

Re:Anecdotal evidence go (1)

leuk_he (194174) | about 3 years ago | (#35549944)

I doubt you will see this much. There a 3 kind of services a service organisation can deliver.

1. Do a a reinstall of the OS and hope it was some driver conflict that goes away with this.
2. Replace the hardware for the user.

In those cases the use has to do a complete backup/restore for something they are not even sure it is the solution.

3. You can search for the root cause and reproduce it. and maybe even fix this.

Finding the root cause for different problems (in the forum thread you can clearly see some load problem with or without video driver problems), and rolling in out to all users, including those who do not have a problem (yet).

because 1 & 2 you will never get to 3....

If someone is going to state "very widespread"... (4, Insightful)

acidfast7 (551610) | about 3 years ago | (#35549794)

which I don't think one can do ... because it's either widespread or not ... can that person at least provide a percentage? I'm mean ... even if a few 1000 machines have problems it's still a negligible percentage. And, how would this value compare to the normal failure rate from other manufacturers? I don't know, and I can't really compare it, because this fantastic article doesn't provide any information for gauging what "very widespread" means. It's just another anti-Apple article.

why do I even read /. anymore ... I must be addicted to the internet in an unhealthy manner :(

Re:If someone is going to state "very widespread". (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549884)

You're addicted to /something/ in an unhealthy manner, but it's not /.

Re:If someone is going to state "very widespread". (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549914)

From reading the actual discussion of at the Apple support boards it seems someone from there submitted it to Slashdot. All they have is speculation and the feedback of people who came to the board because specifically they were experiencing problems. There's no way of telling how many machines are really affected or what the problem is at this point. The consensus on the board seems to point to some GPU driver/firmware issue that locks up the interface while still allowing some people to ssh into it.

Anon because I've already modded.

Much ado about nothing ... (5, Insightful)

SirJorgelOfBorgel (897488) | about 3 years ago | (#35549814)

Look, I severely dislike Apple, their products, their methods, and their policies.

However, this seems to be much ado about nothing. I have actually read the entire thread, and it appears to be a simple software issue that can be resolved by disabling some fan control package. The issue does not occur under stress testing in Windows 7. Put those two together, the issue becomes one or two bad packages, which will be resolved in an update sooner or later (for those that blew $3k on a computer, I hope sooner).

Of course, how Apple has handled the situation is abysmal, and I'm quite surprised seeing the people in the thread defending Apple support as they do.

In the end though: nothing to see here, move along, this is not a reason for major Apple bashing or Apple vs PC debates, and yes, even Apple can and does release bugged software now and then.

Re:Much ado about nothing ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549842)

But....if people listen to you they can't passionately debate their side in an opinion-only argument. That is why no one will pay attention to your stupid "sound logic".

Re:Much ado about nothing ... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549952)

Look, I severely dislike Apple, their products, their methods, and their policies.

The fact that you have to start your comment with that phrase here on Slashdot only shows that they are beyond rational discourse.

I'll take the "article" for what it's worth, and if it turns into something more then I'll base my buying decisions upon it.

Until then, I'll watch the flame wars with bemusement and curiosity on how people can get so worked up over a manufactured product.

Re:Much ado about nothing ... (1)

unityofsaints (1213900) | about 3 years ago | (#35550014)

I assume you mean buggy software, or else Apple really is the modern-day Gestapo like I feared all along!

Re:Much ado about nothing ... (-1, Troll)

pyster (670298) | about 3 years ago | (#35550042)

No. Much to do about something. Apple fan boys love to scream that apple's jsut work when the reality is they have been plague with their own problems all along. As the SLN skit says... crash different. Yet they sold the idea that they were so simple that stoned high skewl girls and douchey hipsters could become heros in a see of windows machines. There is something to see here. That undeserving smug smile smacked off apple fan boys faces.

It's not a bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35549836)

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
And you have the right to receive a new sleeve completly free.
Oh thank you Steve.

It is caused by (5, Informative)

toxygen01 (901511) | about 3 years ago | (#35549960)

iStat menu (most probably).

for those tl;dr:
most of the users report that after uninstalling istat menu pro (and it's "fan control" set to on by default) the problem goes away...

keep panicking...

Software Related (4, Informative)

amiga3D (567632) | about 3 years ago | (#35549986)

According to the thread this is software related. Removing smcfancontrol seems to be fixing the problem. I have to wonder how that got out the door.

Re:Software Related (5, Insightful)

jmaline (26165) | about 3 years ago | (#35550060)

Smcfancontrol is 3rd party software, not Apple.


OK, maybe a little wordy. But it'd help me quickly skip articles reporting "problems" where the "fix" was to uninstall some crazy low-level hack.

Re:Software Related (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35550078)

Because Jobs was not there 110% of the time riding shotgun on QC, Design, Marketing etc etc etc .... Apple without Jobs is doomed.

Previous generation crashed/froze too. (3, Interesting)

mario_grgic (515333) | about 3 years ago | (#35550020)

I bought top of the line 2010 17'' Macbook Pro fully loaded with matte screen too. Loved the machine (it was almost as fast as my 8 core Mac Pro), but it would freeze unexpectedly, and not necessarily under load either. So, after some research I found similar killometer long thread on apple discussions forum. So, I reluctantly and sadly returned it to Apple for full refund. I'm extremely happy with the customer service (they didn't ask me any questions or pressured me to keep it or anything, just said "So, what do you want to do?", i.e. attempt a replacement or refund). But, I'm not happy with the fact that you can spend $4000 on a computer and have it not working. Now I'm scared to even attempt to buy another one. It's somewhat of a disappointing experience.

I should also mention that I have 7 other Macs (of which only one portable - 2008 Aluminum Macbook) that all worked out of the box without a single issue. So, I don't know if only their top of the line Macbook Pros have these issues due to heat dissipation or something else?
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