Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Google Accuses China of Interfering With Gmail

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the caught-red-handed dept.

Google 131

Hugh Pickens writes "The Guardian reports that Google has accused the Chinese government of interfering with Gmail. According to the search giant, Chinese customers and advertisers have increasingly been complaining about their Gmail service in the past month and attempts by users to send messages, mark messages as unread and use other services have generated problems for Gmail customers. The announcement follows a blog posting from Google on 11 March in which the firm said it had 'noticed some highly targeted and apparently politically motivated attacks against our users. We believe activists may have been a specific target.' The search firm is not commenting further on this latest attack, but technology experts said it seemed to show an increasingly high degree of sophistication."

cancel ×

131 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

You can't trust the Chinese (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35559860)

This is why I don't do business in China unless I'm looking for poisonous toys or smelly drywall.

HOW DARE THEY! (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35562340)

That's the NSA's job...

And yet sadly, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35559934)

And yet sadly, despite how their penises are renowned for their small size, CmdrTaco's penis is still tinier than a Chinese newborn.

Re:And yet sadly, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560120)

tinier than a Chinese newborn.

Good for him. If his penis was the size of a newborn, it would be cause for concern. 20 inches and 7 pound are just freakish ;)

Re:And yet sadly, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35561534)

Since you felt the need to be pedantic, it should be, "If his penis were the size[...]"

Re:And yet sadly, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35565432)

Indeed, thanks.

China POWA (1)

jimmerz28 (1928616) | more than 3 years ago | (#35559936)

When the economists predicted that China would be the next big power maybe they meant internet power!

Just stop doing business with them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35559982)

Practice Shunning. Get all your friends to do the name. Tell Nixon to stay home.

Re:Just stop doing business with them. (3, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560386)

You could just stop buying everything made in China. But then there wouldn't be very much left you could buy.

Re:Just stop doing business with them. (4, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560502)

>>>You could just stop buying everything made in China. But then there wouldn't be very much left you could buy.

You could just stop buying.
Wise advice for a US culture
~$120,000 in personal debt
(plus another 140,000/home national debt).

easter bunny delayed? fake weather, jesus rumors (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560018)

they too, use the extremely sensitive/accurate vibration~atmospheric prognostication/location services. things being as they are now, the bunny is unable to determine if jesus is still not dead, or alive, again, but the rumors persist. that's why we have a calendar/ceremonies? either way, we're ready.

Cut them off. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560040)

Google should just fucking cut China off. Let them try to do business while the rest of the world moves on with GMail. Do it for a week, at least. I understand that they want to exert control over their citizens, but Homey don't play that shit over here.

Old news? (4, Insightful)

andrea.sartori (1603543) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560054)

Already seen that on /. [slashdot.org] more than once [slashdot.org] and other sources even date it to early 2010 [sophos.com] . Is this a gritty reboot?

Re:Old news? (2)

caroboom (986492) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560628)

Well, it might have happened before. But it is true (from personal experience by me and other people here) that it got a lot harder to use gmail without proxy/vpn the past 2-3 weeks.

Re:Old news? (1)

andrea.sartori (1603543) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561346)

I assume by "here" you mean in China? Asking this out of curiosity, but it might be useful to know if there is trouble using it currently...

Re:Old news? (1)

mrclisdue (1321513) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561936)

Perhaps the original story was sent via chinese gmail; it's all messed up, or so they say.

FUCK CHINA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35562028)

A good country with a shitty government. Hope they throw that government out.

Red Chinese arrogance (4, Interesting)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560122)

The sheer, breaktaking arrogance and aggression of the Red Chinese is unbelievable. I laugh out loud whenever I read an apologist for the Chinese Communist Party accuse teh yankee imperialist dogs of arrogance, when they themselves are shaping up to be the most brutal and self-interested global imperialists the world has ever known.

People are going to look back on the dominance of the West as a golden age once the mainland Chinese are through with us.

the west's pursuit of capitalism (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560396)

is hobbled by this pesky thing called democracy, human rights, a free press. it interferes with profits

china is autocracy combined with capitalism. it is the gilded age of victorian times in the west when workers rights were nonexistent, squared. china is a giant capitalist machine that treats its citizens as robots without rights. why the chinese people accept this is beyond my understanding, but for now, they do

chinese people: your government does not respect you. you do not have a voice in the composition of your own government. you are a slave. in the name of respecting you as my fellow human beings, i disrespect the policies of your government. rise up and reject their illegitimate claims to rule you without your input

i will fully respect a china that is democratic. until then, your country is doomed, because it is unstable. no government that does not subject itself to the will of its people via a regular vote ever lasts very long. only democracy manufactures legitimacy, and therefore stability. all other forms of government crumble and fall, until after any number of revolutions, the people finally adopt democracy, and are able to keep it

Re:the west's pursuit of capitalism (1, Interesting)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561200)

As opposed to the United States, where the free press is censored by advertisers, democracy is subverted by corporate interests, and we offshore our human rights violations to Cuba?

When it comes to knocking China's problems, we certainly don't have the moral high ground. Same shit, different culture.

Re:the west's pursuit of capitalism (2)

jbonomi (1839286) | more than 3 years ago | (#35562486)

When it comes to knocking China's problems, we certainly don't have the moral high ground. Same shit, different culture.

Until the US starts putting people in labor camps for not being harmonious enough, I would say that we do. I don't think we need to be perfect before we point out the shortcomings of other governments.

a yes, here's our false equivalency morons (3, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35562766)

bound to pop up in any discussion like this

sir: with your words, you are only announcing your profound ignorance of places outside of the west, and what it is really like there

let's just say that if you were chinese, in china, or iranian, in iran, or cuban, in cuba, you wouldn't dare criticize the chinese or iranian or cuban government like you criticize the usa. you criticize the usa however, with impunity, merely because you are perfectly free and entitled to do so. and i'm glad you do. is anyone knocking on your door sir? no? is anyone in the american government going to persecute you for the words you just wrote? no?

so when you realize the truth of how different it is for citizens in these other countries to express themselves freely, maybe you can begin to understand the subject matter you are so ignorantly commenting on

Re:a yes, here's our false equivalency morons (0, Flamebait)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563422)

No one is knocking on my door? Well no, because I'm not Muslim.

Re:a yes, here's our false equivalency morons (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565466)

no american police or government enforcement is knocking on anyone's door just because they are muslim

really, you ignorant moron

Re:a yes, here's our false equivalency morons (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35566450)

I like how your arguments always end with calling me a "moron." I guess you must feel pretty bad about yourself if you have to call people names to make yourself feel better. But the relief one gets by bullying is only temporary, and will not improve yourself in the long run.

And really, before you come up with these sort of patriotic defenses of our country, maybe it's time to meet some folks from other places -- or even visit those places -- and see what life is really like outside of the USA. It's not at all what you think.

Re:the west's pursuit of capitalism (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35562764)

why the chinese people accept this is beyond my understanding, but for now, they do.

Because of a ton of propaganda. The Chinese government has very tight reigns on all information sources. Even the Bible had to be rewritten according to the CG's standards.

But if you don't accept it, you'll get put into a re-educational institution for an indefinite period, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky you'll just get imprisoned or executed. There are literally millions of spies among the Chinese population, eager to aprehend anyone to the government if they could potentially pose any form of threat to its authority.

The way Gaddafi has been treating its citizens would be considered kind in comparison to how the CG would react. The really big problem is that China is huge - it has almost twice as many citizens as America and Europe combined. Not to mention the amount of nuclear weapons. If there would be a third world war with China, I doubt the Earth would survive it.

Re:the west's pursuit of capitalism (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563240)

eventually, the chinese economy will stop growing. when unbridled horizons end, the people's expectations will turn to other matters. hopefully this sort of pressure will lead to peaceful reform, internally. nightmare scenario, the economy actually contracts or tanks, like japan in 1990 or thailand in 2000, and the domestic discontent is seized upon by some sort of demagogue, who effectively marshalls the propagandized hordes into power. then what, i don't even want to imagine, so powerful china is now becoming

for the sake of the future of civilization and mankind on this planet, it is imperative china becomes democratic, for the sake of legitimacy and therefore stability. without the legitimacy of democracy, the current chinese form of government is doomed as soon as the economy stops growing

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (0)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560424)

>>>accuse teh yankee imperialist dogs of arrogance, when they themselves are shaping up to be the most brutal and self-interested global imperialists the world has ever known.

"The Chinese are not true communists" is what those supporters will say. They said the same about the Soviet Union. They refuse to accept that communism is a good IDEA but doesn't work in the real world, due to leadership corruption.

>>>dominance of the West as a golden age once the mainland Chinese are through with us

It may not be that bad. The Western Roman Empire and the Chinese Empire coexisted for centuries. There's enough room in the modern world for both cultures to survive and thrive. Especially since the Chinese will soon be experiencing negative population growth (2030 onward), due to the 1 child per ~2.2 persons policy.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560566)

They refuse to accept that communism is a good IDEA but doesn't work in the real world, due to leadership corruption.

The same criticism is often leveled at capitalism.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560756)

They refuse to accept that communism is a good IDEA but doesn't work in the real world, due to leadership corruption.

The same criticism is often leveled at capitalism.

Define 'Work'. I find that capitalism (far from perfect) works better than com-nom-nomunism (that's the sound of government officials eating while you starve).

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (0)

nosferatu1001 (264446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563434)

No country is truly capitalist.

True capitalism is incredibly bad, as once you remove pesky government controls you end up with a single monolithic organism controlling everything,.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (1)

kipin (981566) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561520)

The Western Roman Empire and the Chinese Empire coexisted for centuries.

The world moves a lot faster nowadays. It may have been able to handle two mega empires simultaneously solely because of geographical limits. Natural resources were also not nearly as in demand as they are today.

Just my $.02

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (5, Interesting)

milkmage (795746) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560726)

not so much arrogance/aggression as pure paranoia.. they don't fucking trust anyone.

my sister was stationed in China during for her tour in the Peace Corps. She was teaching English at a University.

My mom sent her a care package - including some nicknacks for her students (candy, shit like that).. the padding in the package was a US newspaper, which just happened to have full color pictures of a gay parade. within 24 hours - Washington got a call from Beijing. Apparently the Chinese didn't appreciate the nature of the packing material and threatened to expel my sister from the country if it happened again.

when I went to visit, I was a guest speaker in her class - I was peppered by the students with questions like "do i know Michael Jordan, what's a drugstore, do I have a car".. then one guy asks (in much better english than the rest of the kids) - how I felt about the US presence in Afghanistan (this was less than a year after 9/11). The Party put a mole in my sister's class.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35563890)

How can you be sure he was a mole? Perhaps he was just an intellectual kind of guy, which would explain his question and his english being better than the rest of the class.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (2)

milkmage (795746) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565242)

the question was totally out of line (based on the rest of the questions) - all of them revolved around "American life" not politics

he didn't look like a university student (too old) and his English was too good to be in that class (beginner). the rest of the kids paused as they searched for the right words and made mistakes common to folks learning English for the first time. His question was "What is your opinion about the US presence in Afghanistan" - that's not beginner English - my sister taught 3 levels. He didn't need that class.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35566186)

I used to correspond on ICQ with a girl in China.

When I asked her about opinions of Chinese on the Iraq war (perhaps a year in), she gave not much answer at all.

Next time I heard from her a couple of weeks later she warned me "not to bring up the bad topic anymore".

That ended that. Cannot speak clearly with somebody who is under duress by their government relative to free speech. It sucks bad.

Re:Red Chinese arrogance (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35562740)

People are going to look back on the dominance of the West as a golden age once the mainland Chinese are through with us

No they won't. Red China will rewrite history to say Western Dominance was the dark age of human history.

Behind the Red Door... (4, Insightful)

MrWin2kMan (918702) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560130)

Is anybody really surprised at this? China is a communist country. They are in the business of world domination. They will never stop trying to steal technology or stop attacking their political enemies using whatever methods at their disposal. A lot of people complain about our (the U.S.) government. We're amateurs at invading privacy and interfering with commerce compared to those guys...

Re:Behind the Red Door... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560352)

China is a communist country.

Um, not really.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (4, Insightful)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561358)

Response like this means China's propaganda absolutely is taking hold. Its really pretty sad so many so so weak minded.

They are an aristocracy of communist rule where capitalism is growing and leveraged only so long as it benefits the communist party. Its an extremely weird blend of communism and capitalism with very clear shades of every growing fascism. But no bones about it, China is still very much communist at its core.

The state still owes everything The state still takes from A and gives to B - except where that can be deferred via bribes; and then only at the whim of the party. The giving of A to B is typically to empower additional income via capitalism such that the monies can be used to further the power base and dominance of the communist party.

Even the extremely wealthy, who have made all of their money via capitalism, absolutely understand they must be gracious to the communist in power else they can lose everything over night. So while they do participate in a capitalistic trade, they do so only to further the means and reach of the communistic party.

Lastly, I also get the impression people confuse capitalism with democracy . One does not depend on the other. Which is why, for example, much of the pro-pirate community are actually advocating socialism; although frequently far too ignorant to realize it.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35563068)

You wrote that comment yourself, didn't you, to have something to respond to. Great style of argument, btw, equating disagreeing with you and being "weak minded".

Re:Behind the Red Door... (0)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563538)

Response like this means China's propaganda absolutely is taking hold. Its really pretty sad so many so so weak minded.

They are an aristocracy of communist rule where capitalism is growing and leveraged only so long as it benefits the communist party. Its an extremely weird blend of communism and capitalism with very clear shades of every growing fascism. But no bones about it, China is still very much communist at its core.

"You are weak minded for thinking that China isn't really communist. It's actually a complex mix of communism and capitalism that is turning fascist. But make no mistake, it's totally communist."

Re:Behind the Red Door... (3, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560366)

China is a capitalist country, with a veneer of communism, slipping towards fascism, and they are not looking for world domination; they want China to be the world's superpower, and basically control Asia, but nobody in world history since Alexander the Great has ever actually looked to rule the world.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1, Insightful)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560412)

> China is a capitalist country, with a veneer of communism,

Jailed Nobel Peace Prize winner Liu Xiaobo might beg to differ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+peace+prize+jailed [google.com]

Re:Behind the Red Door... (2)

Mr_Perl (142164) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560864)

The fallacy in the former past is that he is equating all capitalism (economic concept) with freedom (humanist concept).

Apples / Oranges.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

kvothe (2013374) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561148)

No no, China's ok with Apples. They are a major supplier, after all... /facetious

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561970)

he fallacy in the former past is that he is equating all capitalism (economic concept) with freedom (humanist concept).

I am sorry but that is a silly distinction to make. True Capitalism requires the freedom to act in ones own self interest and the that there be no force used to compel any sacrifice to others. Its true that capitalism might be an economic concept but its one that can't really exist in the absence of freedom, thus implies freedom. What the Chinese do is not capitalism it might not be the traditional centralized command economy we associated with communism but it is certainly not capitalism. It might be true to say that modern China is not really communist under its original definition I'll have to thing on that one.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

SETIGuy (33768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563502)

True Capitalism requires the freedom to act in ones own self interest and the that there be no force used to compel any sacrifice to others.

In other words, throughout recorded history there's never been a capitalist country because capitalism is incompatible with the concept of society?

Where do you get this bullshit?/aP

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

idontgno (624372) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560928)

Capitalism* didn't put Professor Liu in prison. Communism** did.

*As an economic system, capitalism doesn't acknowledge the existence of dissidence. You're a worker or a capital owner.

**Communism functions (poorly) as an economic system, but in practice it has always functioned primarily as a political system. In China and the former Soviet bloc, as an authoritarian political system, where dissident speech is a crime. This has nothing to do with economic-theoretic capitalism. (Practical capitalism loves to have authoritarian political power at its disposal, of course, since that makes many economic frictions and externalities disappear like magic.)

Re:Behind the Red Door... (2)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560482)

China is a corporate state in all but name. The border between businesses and the government has blurred to the point of merging. At this point, they will be content with merely dominating the world's markets, but that could easily change to desiring domination of the world's population (most likely to use as a workforce when enough of China rises above the poverty line that they do not wish to do low-end manual labor).

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

rAiNsT0rm (877553) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561186)

And they will achieve it. My estimate is 4-5 years they will fully assert their dominance. They are #2 now and at any time could flex their economic and political muscle and severely cripple an already reeling U.S. With the rest of BRIC, the U.S. has already slipped from the top, it just isn't official yet. It's either corrupt corporations or China, neither is a great option.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

MasaMuneCyrus (779918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564566)

China flexing their economic might on the US would be like the US flexing their military might against China over Taiwan.

NEITHER OF US WANT TO FUCK EVERYTHING UP.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

rAiNsT0rm (877553) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564764)

Not at the moment, but what exactly would China be "fucking up" by choosing to in 3-4 years time if BRIC continues to grow as slated? They will easily be able to supplant us and also keep us beholden to them in a number of key areas. The U.S. has far more to lose at this time than any other in history.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (2)

hey! (33014) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561694)

Well, they have done a pretty good job re-creating themselves along the lines of what they used to think capitalism was. Cozy relationship between the economic elite and high government officials? Check. Labor unions suppressed? Check. Psychological class warfare where workers are duped into working against their own interests by xenophobia and fear? Check. Meddling in economic outcome for the benefit of the politically connected, while maintaining a fig leaf of market freedom? Check. Imperialist policies under the false flags of national sovereignty and concern for the well-being of the natives? Check.

They've become everything they loathed about us. Unfortunately, so have we.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563706)

Ever heard of Hitler? Napoleon?

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560406)

Its China that are the amateurs, the fact that you even hear stories about it means they don't control the media as they want to. The way the US Government does it on the other hand is masterful - so good in fact most of the time you don't even realize its happening until long after the fact.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35561034)

Your naivete attempts to masquerade as cynicism, but does it very poorly.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560478)

We're amateurs at invading privacy and interfering with commerce compared to those guys...

But here's the rub... in Chinese culture, the state is viewed as the great benefactor of all, your generous uncle, a friendly neighbor. This isn't just propaganda pushed by the Communists, but something that reaches way back into the dynastic periods. It's also one of the few things my SO and I ever really get into big misunderstandings about... to her, the state, while not 100% infallible, always has the people's interests at heart, while to me (and just about any other "westerner"), the state is something to be distrusted even in the best of times. Take a random poll, and most Chinese will agree that "disharmonious" websites such as pr0n (it gets in the way of loving your spouse, after all) ought to be censored or blocked. Sure, to us it's a '1984' style crash-course to the police state, but to them, it's only fitting and proper that impressionable people be protected from seeing someone's naughty bits.

Re:Behind the Red Door... (1)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561366)

Well there's a continual scale there, it's not always one extreme or the other. Not ~all~ Westerners have the 'government should always be mistrusted' mindset. That particular attitude is prevalent in America, but many Europeans, or even Aussies or Canadian or New Zealanders, will disagree. To you it might seem that they have the Chinese view on the matter, but it's really somewhere inbetween that view and yours. They have a more central or moderate opinion than either.

I'm Australian. I personally think that the government here does generally do its job reasonably well by international standards and has the public's interest in mind ~most~ of the time (this doesn't mean they necessarily ~succeed~ in getting this right, but there are many passionate politicians I can think of that have a genuine drive to improve things). To me, the American attitude seems a little paranoid. In a way that's understandable given the difference in history between the two countries: the US was formed via violent rebellion against England and a rejection of overbearing government; Australia peacefully federated after asking permission from the UK to do so, and still retains the Queen as a head of state (though largely as an empty, symbolic figurehead rather than someone that actually does anything WRT running the country).

Also, the Westminster system genuinely does seem more open, more responsible and more transparent than the American system most of the time. There are much stricter laws against lobbying and corporate donations to political parties, FoI and transparency laws are tougher, and the proportional representation system used here means that third and fourth parties, and even completely independent candidates, can and do influence laws that pass. The flip side of this, however, is that the American system is technically more democratic/representative: we don't directly vote for the Prime Minister and most other top positions in government are filled based on the winning parties internal votes, rather than publicly elected. Judicial roles are appointed rather than elected as well. So there are pros and cons to each system.

Anyway that was a bit of a tangent. My point is that I and many other Westerners have a position somewhere in between the Chinese view and your view. Government needs a close eye kept on it, and must be accountable to the people, of course. But I don't 'distrust' it. Skeptical of the views of some particular politicians or parties, sure ... but the system as a whole is sound and trustworthy with the checks and balances that exist. Sometimes there's blatant incompetence on display, but generally speaking it does a decent job. The country I live in is prosperous and successful as a result. If I were to grade it on having the people's interests at heart, it'd be getting a B- or something like that :)

Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese'? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560216)

I find it interesting that, when the media talk about Chinese hackers, they invariably refer to it as attacks by "China" -- not "Chinese hackers", as would be the case in just about any other country in the world.

Can we really always assume that the Chinese government or China as a country is behind each and every attack, or is it just the work of some extremists within the country's borders?

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560266)

...or is it just the work of some extremists within the country's borders?

Yes, they go by the handle 'PRC'.

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (4, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560268)

Interfering with traffic in-transit is beyond the ability of all but the best hackers without government aid. They would need to either be good enough to compromise and operate network infrastructure without detection (hard) or actually be employed by an ISP in a high enough position that they don't have someone else checking their configs (Also hard). It can't be the work of some basement-dweller gang. It's either an organised group of super-hackers, or a government agency. The latter seems more probable.

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561030)

It gets a lot easier when you have your own certificates ... I remember seeing some outcry about certain Chinese telecoms getting them a year or 2 ago. Perhaps people should be removing those from their trusted lists?

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35561176)

i mean their own certificate authorities (CAs)
I would suggest all software released outside of China should prohibit any CAs in the default trusted list that are Chinese or owned by China.

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561442)

Thank you for the correction, yes, that was my meaning. A MITM attack becomes quite easy with your own CA.

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560456)

Posting AC as to avoid undoing a previous mod.

I find it interesting that, when the media talk about Chinese hackers, they invariably refer to it as attacks by "China" -- not "Chinese hackers", as would be the case in just about any other country in the world.

Can we really always assume that the Chinese government or China as a country is behind each and every attack, or is it just the work of some extremists within the country's borders?

The reason that people usually say "China" as opposed to "Chinese" is that most hackers within China are affiliated with the government. There are units both in the People's Liberation Army and in the Chinese State Security apparatus that are devoted solely to hacking and other forms of online attacks. Most university students studying these things are getting recruited by the government, if not having their education paid for by the government. The university professors teaching them are virtually kept on call by the government. I actually wrote a paper that dealt with this for one of my graduate-level IR classes, unfortunately it was in my old laptop so I lost it, so I can't give you the exact sources or unit designations devoted to this.

Re:Why always 'blame China' and not 'blame Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35565896)

most hackers within China are affiliated with the government.

Citation needed.

Issue? (-1)

VincenzoRomano (881055) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560326)

Google doesn't own China Internet. China gov does.

Re:Issue? (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560480)

China don't own Bartertown.

Re:Issue? (1)

vawwyakr (1992390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560496)

Is that you President Jintao?

Re:Issue? (1)

SETIGuy (33768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564426)

That's President Hu to you.

Noozflash! (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560460)

Company does business with censoring government; complains when government censors.

Next up: War in the Middle East! The unthinkable has happened!

Re:Noozflash! (1)

dadelbunts (1727498) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561068)

What happened. Did someone die?

Re:Noozflash! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35561414)

No, it's all good, a few people have gone to live, on a farm, with a lovely old couple.
You're dog however, is dead.

Nooz be teh breakin' (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565176)

I don't know! O_o

Uh.. Yeah (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560642)

I've been living in Shanghai since September, and this place is annoying as hell to stay connected. I should not complain too much as I have not been jailed as others have (yet) for winge-ing, but my digital life in the Emerald City (Seattle) is difficult to maintain over here. Forget streaming as China Telecom breaks the connection every 10 minutes just to keep things boring. The last few weeks have been especially bad, as the riots elsewhere scared the police here poopless and they shut down large network segments in order to inhibit riot-forming people (presumably). Our entire company was shut down for a morning, and connections were flaky for a few days. If they are targeting Gmail, next, then I am screwed (Google bashers will say I already am :). My VPN services are being attacked as well.

It's real and it's real bad.

Re:Uh.. Yeah (1)

surgen (1145449) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565690)

My VPN services are being attacked as well.

It's real and it's real bad.

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but how prevalent is the use of VPNs in china? What is your reading on how many people who want to get around the great firewall, are actually trapped by it?

Yeah, my heroes (1, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35560648)

Is that the same Google [wikipedia.org] that censors its Chinese search results to block terms like "democracy"? Guess oppression is okay unless you try to steal their source code [wired.com] or interfere with the quality of their services.

Re:Yeah, my heroes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35560800)

That's right: you can take my freedom, but don't fuck with my email.

Re:Yeah, my heroes (3, Informative)

uss_valiant (760602) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561092)

Google China stopped serving censored results. Source: The very same Wikipedia article you reference.

Re:Yeah, my heroes (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35562244)

Yeah, only after China tried to steal their source code. Again, Google was fine with this until China actually threatened their profits by trying to steal their precious search algorithms.

Re:Yeah, my heroes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35563868)

They didn't steal their source code. They went after the gmail accounts of known dissidents. That's how Google knew that it was the Chinese government (or groups related to it).

Re:Yeah, my heroes (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564028)

That was just Google's cover story at first. Read the Wired article above for more details on what the hackers were *really* after (and they apparently actually got some of it too).

Re:Yeah, my heroes (1)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563976)

Oh shut your mouth. I'm tired of hearing this bullshit. There are shades of gray in the world. Before Google was allowed over in China there were articles and debates over what was worse, no Google or Google without some of the results. They looked at it and realized "well shit, they aren't getting the democracy links either way, may as well open it up with censored results...." but you could tell they weren't happy about it. Not everything is a war for the human fucking spirit. Sometimes a straw breaks a camels back, sometimes people aren't thinking about ethics violations they have no power to control. Sometimes, people are just trying to provide a service that is better than what was out there. Its good to know dicks like you will always be around to tell them it wasn't pure enough. Maybe Google didn't have the clout to stop censoring until China overstepped itself.

Now go somewhere else and tell all your friends how the only charitable giving is done in secret for causes the donators disagree with so they don't even get satisfaction out of it. Anything less is just people being selfish dicks. Thats what you believe, isn't it?

Re:Yeah, my heroes (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563996)

And sometimes companies just want to make money. In fact, that's *all* they want to do.

So the plane just landed on your head? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35561342)

What the hell did you think was going to happen.. in China?

China sucks for this... (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561422)

In China, China decides what China wants, and what it doesn't want, and if you do not offer them a way to do what they want your app to do, they will find a way themselves, and usually not a very efficient way either...

Is this really news? (1)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561484)

A country infamous for their "great firewall" screws with yet another service.
Be honest, the service being screwed with (Google) is the only reason this is a headline.

How is this surprising? (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561496)

How is this surprising? China is a communist country they are not a democracy. They will not hesitate to bring military actions against there own people in order to bring them back into line. You do business with the devil and somewere down the line your going to pay

Re:How is this surprising? (1)

voidness (1900074) | more than 3 years ago | (#35562116)

How is this surprising? Western are not communist country they are democracy. They will not hesitate to bring military actions against other people in order to bring them back into line (read headlines news now!). You do business with the devil (to get oil) and somewere down the line your going to pay

Re:How is this surprising? (1)

surgen (1145449) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563650)

How is this surprising? Western are not communist country they are democracy. They will not hesitate to bring military actions against other people in order to bring them back into line (read headlines news now!). You do business with the devil (to get oil) and somewere down the line your going to pay

The nice part is we can openly question our governments for doing so.

Re:How is this surprising? (1)

voidness (1900074) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564078)

granted. But is that effective? I'm more interested in result rather than procedure.

google will fail in China anyway (1)

voidness (1900074) | more than 3 years ago | (#35561992)

The problem with google is that they are taking political posture too much as a private company. Politics and moral ground wouldn't get along well with business. If google see itself as the God, get out from China. Is that simple? The problem is google wants to do business with China but also pretend to be the God. Adding too much Western value it. China is entirely different country and culture. It has no history to be altered by out force. They will never get succeed in China. Losing China in business is losing the world in nowadays. LOL.

Re:google will fail in China anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35562188)

LOL indeed voidness, LOL indeed. Well spoken.

Re:google will fail in China anyway (1)

surgen (1145449) | more than 3 years ago | (#35563518)

So how much do you make as an internet shill for your government? If language skills at your level are good enough to get the job, I'd be a shoo-in.

Re:google will fail in China anyway (1)

voidness (1900074) | more than 3 years ago | (#35564146)

Beating around the bush? Typical. Why do I have to speak my third language (not even the second) as you do to get job? Besides, I have good job. Don't shoo-in. LOL.

So how much do you make as an internet shill for your government? If language skills at your level are good enough to get the job, I'd be a shoo-in.

Re:google will fail in China anyway (1)

surgen (1145449) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565262)

Beating around the bush?

Actually it was pretty damn direct. I posited my assumption rather than ask for conformation. Don't worry about not understanding my first post, being bad at English makes it easier to identify shills such as yourself, and for that we thank you.

Re:google will fail in China anyway (1)

victorhooi (830021) | more than 3 years ago | (#35566228)

heya,

Oh man, seriously....where do these clowns come from...haha....

The 50-cent army strikes again. Question - is that 50 RMB cents, or some other currency that isn't intentionally devalued by your own country to be worth peanuts? Lol indeed....

And I'm sorry, but if your English skills are that appalling, then they paying you 50c for that post was a sour deal for them. (Disclaimer - I'm Chinese, just not a PRC hoon. And my point is this - if somebody was paying me to troll on a foreign language forum, I'd make sure I trolled well, and actually bothered to know the language before trolling...idiots).

Cheers,
Victor

You guys make me a Troll... (1)

HKcastaway (985110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35565732)

As a non US citizen I think I am going to come across as a troll.... by making this coment.

America is in great danger, China is going to take over the world and you should live in fear and prepare for war...

Why don't they buy Google? (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 3 years ago | (#35566302)

Why don't they just buy Google? They have enough dollars saved in the piggy bank to buy 100 Googles.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?