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AMD Challenges NVIDIA To Graphics Throw-Down

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the fight-to-the-death dept.

AMD 240

MojoKid writes "Over the last couple of weeks, the two most powerful graphics cards released for the PC to date made their respective debuts, the dual-Cayman GPU powered AMD Radeon HD 6990 and the dual-GF110 GPU powered NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590. With such powerful products in their line-ups, both AMD and NVIDIA have claimed they offer 'the world's fastest graphics card.' AMD says it's theirs. Dave Erskine, the Senior Public Relations Manager for Graphics Desktop at AMD, challenged NVIDIA directly. 'So now I issue a challenge to our competitor: prove it, don't just say it. Show us the substantiation.'"

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Anysufficiently advanced technology (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627012)

is indistinguishable from a rigged benchmark

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627194)

I'm fine with it.

As long as they agree to make Ubuntu the test platform.

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (5, Funny)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627272)

Who wants to see two computers running the same game at 10 frames/second at 640x480?

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627666)

Hey now, I managed to get Quake up to 12 FPS on my machine!

Though, I had to turn the graphics down to "Low"

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (0)

QuantumLeaper (607189) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627760)

You got 640x480? The best I could do was 320x240, that is when I used the nVidia driver for my 8800. Getting it back to the default driver was a pain.

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (3, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627326)

Give it a week. It will be on http://www.phoronix.com/ [phoronix.com] And it will be more likely to be accurate. Of course it will have real god and useful data soon at http://openbenchmarking.org/ [openbenchmarking.org] but that is actually helpful and will not be reported by anyone.

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627552)

Give it a week. It will be on http://www.phoronix.com/ [phoronix.com] And it will be more likely to be accurate. Of course it will have real god and useful data soon at http://openbenchmarking.org/ [openbenchmarking.org] but that is actually helpful and will not be reported by anyone.

There is a real God? With useful data.. AND His data will be accurate?
Wow...

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627786)

More importantly: It won't be reported by anyone.

Nobody cares.

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627604)

AMD vs Nvidia under linux. AMD might as well forfeit to their own duel.

Re:Anysufficiently advanced technology (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627514)

is indistinguishable from a rigged benchmark

NVIDIA will be the winner, i guarantee it! AMD Motherboards are awesome, but their graphics cards suck ass compared to nvidia's!

That's absolutely true, but... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627018)

What do Slashdot readers think about the scientific butter that awards crack addicted babies with even more?

Re:That's absolutely true, but... (4, Funny)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627236)

What do Slashdot readers think about the scientific butter that awards crack addicted babies with even more?

Thank You. Your comment, coupled with a couple of glasses of wine, just caused my brain to reboot.

You are the equivalent of the crazy person that has uncontrolled outbursts on the subway that make the Mad Hatter seem cogent and lucid.

+5 W.T.F

Re:That's absolutely true, but... (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627650)

What do Slashdot readers think about the scientific butter that awards crack addicted babies with even more?

Thank You. Your comment, coupled with a couple of glasses of wine, just caused my brain to reboot.

You are the equivalent of the crazy person that has uncontrolled outbursts on the subway that make the Mad Hatter seem cogent and lucid.

+5 W.T.F

Purple monkey dishwasher.

Big words... (4, Funny)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627028)

(disclosure: I have Radeons stashed in various machinery throughout the house - especially the Macs)

Anyrate, them are pretty big words, but I'd take them more seriously if they agreed on a neutral testing lab and benchmarks that aren't geared towards one over the other.

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, please provide comic relief by including an Intel video chipset. Pretty please?
(please insert evil grin here)

Re:Big words... (0, Troll)

pantherace (165052) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627062)

Can we include phones too?

Because I'm pretty sure my phone beats an Intel chipset...

Re:Big words... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627094)

Your point? So does an Etch-a-sketch.

Re:Big words... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627144)

Uh, yeah... I don't think so [anandtech.com] .

Re:Big words... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627170)

That's full of shit.

Re:Big words... (1)

dlochinski (1542339) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627720)

Not Really

Re:Big words... (2)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627264)

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, please provide comic relief by including an Intel video chipset. Pretty please? (please insert evil grin here)

If you are going to pick on an integrated video solution then you don't have to bother with Intel. None of the integrated chipsets would stack up at all against these top of the line cards.

If you want a comparison, try showing what other things you could have bought for $700+. Perhaps an XBox AND a PS3 plus a mainstream video card? Or maybe just one console, a few games, a mainstream card and a vacuum cleaner to run while playing (to simulate the sound of the high end cards).

Re:Big words... (5, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627340)

If you are going to pick on an integrated video solution then you don't have to bother with Intel. None of the integrated chipsets would stack up at all against these top of the line cards.

If you want a comparison, try showing what other things you could have bought for $700+. Perhaps an XBox AND a PS3 plus a mainstream video card? Or maybe just one console, a few games, a mainstream card and a vacuum cleaner to run while playing (to simulate the sound of the high end cards).

Three hours with a mid range hooker? I know you still get screwed longer with the PS3, but it is more fun with a hooker.

If I were nVidia (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627346)

I'd say sure, and lay out a set of OpenGL benchmarks and utilities to try. Reason is ATi's OpenGL drivers have never been as good. They aren't horrible, but they are not as good as their DX drivers. nVidia, however, supports both APIs as native and they are both just as fast.

Rigged? Sure, but it makes a point: It is all in what you want to do that determines what is the fastest.

In terms of Windows games it looks like the 6990 is the faster card. Of course it is something where if ti matters at all is really questionable. You are talking like "Which card lets you get slightly higher FSAA settings with a game running at max quality in 5,760x1200?" HardOCP generally found the 6990 was the winner, but it was small things like that. The 590 would have no FSAA, they 6990 could have 2x FSAA or whatever.

So maybe it matters if you have 3 24" monitors, but if not the real meat of it is that both cards are way faster than you need and will run things great.

Either marketing department can find things to claim they are the "Fastest" I'm sure. If you care depends on what you do.

Re:Big words... (1)

izomiac (815208) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627388)

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, please provide comic relief by including an Intel video chipset. Pretty please? (please insert evil grin here)

Only if you do the benchmark on battery power... Or perhaps use a cluster of them that would be equivalent in price.

Re:Big words... (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627524)

Anyrate, them are pretty big words, but I'd take them more seriously if they agreed on a neutral testing lab and benchmarks that aren't geared towards one over the other.

Really? I'd prefer a strict outcome, but an anything goes to get the solution approach. If code can be written that runs far better on one than the other, lets see it. Providing the visual outputs are the same on both of the results I say go nuts with the custom optimisation. I'm all for something working equally well on both platforms, but if you design and code for compatibility you're often not getting the fullest out of the hardware.

Bad idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627034)

It's not hard to create a benchmark which shows that your product is faster.

Browser war (2)

freakingme (1244996) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627038)

This is gonna be as interesting as Browser benchmarks are. Chrome, IE9, FF and Opera all win in their own benchmark. What does it mean to the enduser? Nothing.

Re:Browser war (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627066)

Not really. The 'fastest' card is easy to determine. The reason it doesn't matter is because no one cares which $700 card is faster.

Re:Browser war (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627394)

The 'fastest' card is easy to determine.

Is it? Modern GPUs can do a pretty amazing array of complicated stuff, and I wouldn't at be surprised to find that each has its own strengths and weaknesses at particular tasks or subtasks. I agree with you that the results don't really matter to the vast majority of us, though. :)

Re:Browser war (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627200)

It means safari is crap.

Re:Browser war (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627496)

False, it's a lot more funny actually:

-Firefox win Apple benchmark
-Chrome Win Firefox benchmark
-Chrome Win chrome benchmark
-IE Win it's own benchmarks, but that's microsoft, what to expect

No, u! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627040)

Nu-uh, u first!

Cute (1)

jimmerz28 (1928616) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627046)

I love dork drama.

the only problem with these state of the art cards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627070)

is that 99.99999% of PC games are just console ports which run perfectly fine on circa '08 hardware.

Re:the only problem with these state of the art ca (1)

click2005 (921437) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627126)

Thats fine if you want to run a game on a 1080p monitor. These sorts of cards are designed to run 3 x 30" 2560x1600 monitors at a decent frame rate.

Re:the only problem with these state of the art ca (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627158)

These sorts of cards are designed to run 3 x 30" 2560x1600 monitors at a decent frame rate.

...so gamers can get closer to the real life they don't have.

Re:the only problem with these state of the art ca (4, Insightful)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627198)

These sorts of cards are designed to run 3 x 30" 2560x1600 monitors at a decent frame rate.

...so gamers can get closer to the real life they don't have.

I'm not sure why you think this is a bad thing. People play video games to avoid "real" life, so ... yeah, some gamers *are* looking for a life they don't have. Temporarily, to be sure. No one wants to be a black ops marine for any length of time when it involves torture and such. But in a game? Make that as lifelike as possible ... that's *why* I play games. To avoid real life. Because if real life was as interesting as, say, dragon age, I think I'd just go play that.

Re:the only problem with these state of the art ca (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627748)

Right. Enjoy your 4L V12.

Hope their drivers have improved (4, Informative)

Bigbutt (65939) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627138)

Yea, I'm still getting blue screens on my AMDs. Yea, I'll get modded down by the AMD fanbois. Such is life.

[John]

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627154)

This was fixed at least 10 years ago. Upgrade your drivers.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627166)

You're still on XP? It's no wonder then.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627758)

You speak the truth

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627168)

Blue screen can also be caused by faulty hardware you know, the drivers work just fine on a working card.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (2)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627274)

Drivers interface with the kernel. When you have a poorly written driver that steps in the wrong place in memory, a kernel panic will occur. In the Windows world, that's called a BSOD. Mind you, that any device driver can cause this. In fact, so can anti-virus software being they install their own software drivers for kernel access.

Yes, faulty hardware can cause a host of issues. But don't discount sloppy coding either.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627400)

The bulk of Vista and 7 graphics driver code is implemented as user-mode driver DLLs [wikipedia.org] . No BSODs normally, just an app crash or driver restart.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627206)

Learn how to properly set your memory voltage/timings/clock....
Make sure you're memtest86+ stable..

AMD boards generally do not support EPP 2.0 so you need to manually set your RAM up in your BIOS to get it stable if you buy high performance RAM.

I've got half a dozen AMD machines, many of them heavily overclocked and water cooled.. They're all rock solid stable.

They have, kinda (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627276)

So I have a 5870 and the drivers are for sure better than when it came out. Also ATi drivers are lots better than they were years ago. Used to be a time when I wouldn't touch ATi, they were crap. Now, as is obvious, I don't have a problem with them. I do not prefer them but I'll get them if they have an offering I like and nVidia does not (when I bought the card, nVidia did not have DX11 cards).

So the drivers aren't horrible, but they aren't nVidia quality IMO. This is not only in terms of stability, but also features. nVidia provides some really excellent per-application profile support. You set stuff up and it just works. ATi's is a good deal more complex and not as smooth.

Re:They have, kinda (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627664)

So I have a 5870 and the drivers are for sure better than when it came out. Also ATi drivers are lots better than they were years ago. Used to be a time when I wouldn't touch ATi, they were crap. Now, as is obvious, I don't have a problem with them. I do not prefer them but I'll get them if they have an offering I like and nVidia does not (when I bought the card, nVidia did not have DX11 cards).

So the drivers aren't horrible, but they aren't nVidia quality IMO. This is not only in terms of stability, but also features. nVidia provides some really excellent per-application profile support. You set stuff up and it just works. ATi's is a good deal more complex and not as smooth.

... Not quite sure why you bought a card for DX11 ... by the time dx11 becomes relevant, the processing power required to use it will be much higher. And the first gen dx11 cards from ATI (the 5 series. I have one too) are absolutely terrible when rendering with dx11.

As for nvidia being better than ATI for "smooth setup", have you ever owned a laptop with optimus? You'll change your mind on the "really excellent per-application profile support" comment. Because with optimus, nvidia doesn't have really excellent per-application profile support for windows.

Otherwise, you are 100%, sir.

Re:They have, kinda (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627712)

Because I like new toys. Also the 5870 was the undisputed king when it came out. Nothing else is even close. It runs all the games I feed it very fast, and I play a ton of new games.

In terms of being terrible at DX11, not in my observation. The main game I play that uses it is Bad Company 2, but it works very well. Game looks good and gets a speed boost using DX11.

Should have I waited for a nVidia 400 series? Maybe, but I wanted a new card and I felt the 5870 was a worthwhile upgrade over what I had. I still have the 5870 because so far, I haven't seen anything that is a worthwhile upgrade to it. The 6000 and 500 series are faster, but not faster enough that it is worth the money. So the 5870 stays for now.

Never owned a laptop with Optimus. My experiences are almost all desktop. With nVidia, you set override settings easily. You can set global ones, and then set other per app ones and they just activate as needed. With ATi, you have to activate profiles and all that.

As for laptops I bought my first laptop not long ago, and it has a 5850M in it so ATi drivers are what I got. Never been much of a laptop guy, and I'd just take whatever cheapie work would give me when I traveled (which is not often, maybe twice a year).

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627294)

Same here -- on a two year old Lenovo laptop. I did upgrade the drivers, and it still BSODs within an hour if an external monitor is connected through display port.

Hooking an external monitor to your laptop is a pretty important feature, and I will never get one with an AMD card again.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (2)

KamuZ (127113) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627300)

I always hear this with AMD drivers but I have been using their cards (as a gamer) for years now and never had any problems.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627370)

I always hear this with AMD drivers but I have been using their cards (as a gamer) for years now and never had any problems.

Touch wood, fast!

No! Not that.... Eew... No I don't want to shake hands...

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627684)

Touch wood, fast!

I'm sitting at my computer... I never even bother letting go!

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627424)

Same here. I think it is more a matter of people having questionable rigs in general, and randomly picking a component to blame. I had a friend that years ago would constantly claim that his computer kept crashing because it had an AMD processor. I went and looked at his machine, and found it was sitting next to a window that got massive condensation. The inside the the case was actually rusting. Even when pointing that out the liquid puddling in the bottom of his case, he insisted that it must be the AMD cpu.

Re:Hope their drivers have improved (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627608)

Astroturf comment is astroturf.
There was something recently about how stable Radeon drivers are compared to Nvidia based on Windows error reporting.

Drivers (4, Insightful)

_merlin (160982) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627160)

I don't give a shit about which is faster. Neither seem to be able to consistently write stable drivers. Video driver stability issues are far more of a problem than being 0.1% slower than the competition.

Re:Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627196)

I haven't had a video driver issue with any video card from either NVIDIA or ATI/AMD for at least a few generations.. What systems and hardware are all these people with driver problems running?

Re:Drivers (4, Informative)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627380)

I haven't had a video driver issue with any video card from either NVIDIA or ATI/AMD for at least a few generations.. What systems and hardware are all these people with driver problems running?

MSI motherboards? :)

Re:Drivers (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627244)

So, you use Intel? Or you don't use a graphics card at all? The reality is that at this point you're pretty much stuck with a card from one of those two companies because Intel hasn't released a graphics chip that is competitive since 2D performance was the focus.

Personally, I haven't had much trouble with driver stability. The issue isn't the 0.1% or whatever it turns out to be, the issue is that those are the two companies that are competing to drive the technology forward. It's good for us to have them at each other like this, because what's a $700 card today in a couple years time is going to be what most people are using. Or will at least guide the improvements which benefit us all.

Re:Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627642)

Probably one of the five people running Matrox. ;)

Drivers (1, Insightful)

Aighearach (97333) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627178)

AMD doesn't even have good drivers, who cares what they hardware they put or don't put on their new card?

For true nerds, nvidia is the only game in town.

Re:Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627262)

On Windows that used to be true but today it's a crapshoot (taken literally: either choice is crap).

On Linux you may have a point.

Re:Drivers (1)

Aighearach (97333) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627292)

On Linux you may have a point.

That was the "true nerds" part. ;)

Re:Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627308)

Fair point but if you're interested in a 6990 or 590 I hardly think you'll care about Linux.

Re:Drivers (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627668)

Fair point but if you're interested in a 6990 or 590 I hardly think you'll care about Linux.

You mean, running some of the fastest, best parallel processing cards available on one of the most customizable operating systems isn't a good idea? I guess I'll just stick with my intel chip for direct compute then.

Re:Drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627754)

AMD and Nvidia have not released Linux drivers yet for either card.

Re:Drivers (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627788)

The open-source drivers for these cards are now fairly fast and super stable on Linux. I suggest you take a look.

Re:Drivers (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627726)

"For true nerds, nvidia is the only game in town."

I was a nvidia fanboy since around the GF2 onward but I'm now a former nvidia nerd since I took a gamble on the 5870 and I have had no problems with it in any game I play.

The only time's I've ever had issues is if I was pushing the card too hard (overclocking it) and overheating it. I imagine many peoples "blue screens" come from poor cooling/ventilation or bad powersupply.

Driver quality (4, Interesting)

kimvette (919543) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627182)

How about a driver stability shootout? Include the major platforms (Windows, OS X, and Linux) and compare:

  * Stability in desktop environments (Windows Aero/OS X/KDE/Gnome)
  * Stability in the major productivity apps (Office suites, Photoshop/Gimp/etc., Lightroom/Aperture/etc, Final Cut/Premiere, AutoCAD)
  * Stability in games
  * Ease of installation

THAT is a shootout I would like to see. Even entry-level cards are "good enough" for casual gaming, and mid-range cards are great for even newer games at high resolution.

Re:Driver quality (-1, Troll)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627220)

How about a driver stability shootout? Include the major platforms (Windows, OS X, and Linux) and compare:

* Stability in desktop environments (Windows Aero/OS X/KDE/Gnome)

Heh. So, a couple comments. A) You're calling windows stable? B) You think comparing benchmarks on OSX is fair, when neither vendor has nearly enough control to actually make the cards do what they *can*, and C) Really? KDE and Gnome are your "desktop" choices - not Compiz or any other desktop pretty-upper?

I think you need to get your terminology straightened around. Compiz, Aero and (Quartz Extreme and Core Image) are the desktop compositors you're looking to describe. And reliability isn't based solely on graphics drivers, but also on the interaction of the drivers with other drivers.

Re:Driver quality (0)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627640)

Legit comment, flamebait sig.

Apparently that qualifies for a -1 I'm a mac user and don't like opposition. Not that I mind, mac users need to have steve-o proctective bubble of awesomeness popped by reality every now and then. Or else they get terribly insufferable.

Re:Driver quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627706)

Nope, the comment was an obvious troll. Try harder next time.

Re:Driver quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627224)

Agreed! Stop worrying about speed and focus on bug fixes for crying out loud!!

Re:Driver quality (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627410)

Speed is important. And it depends what bugs exactly you're referring to. But top end cards are for people who are gaming on multiple monitors or using 30 inch plus monitors, or otherwise 'end' cases, and even then they have multi thousand dollar versions if you're really serious about your graphics. Not that you can't get something out of a really good gpu, but if you're on a 22 inch display, by the time software catches up to needing all your top end hardware, there will be new technology not in your high end hardware.

It's a bit like Fiat and Honda arguing over who makes the fastest F1 car to a crowd of ordinary consumers.

*caveat: I have a ATI 5970 and i7 980, but I am decidedly an end case even though I only game on a 24 inch display I do game engines research and testing, with debugging on or when trying to do something new top end hardware can be ground to a halt pretty easily.

Re:Driver quality (1)

crafoo (591629) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627324)

It wouldn't even have to be that complex. I have had AMD drivers crash on malformed GLSL code. NVidia fails gracefully and either displays solid white for that render pass or just nothing. Hell I've had their ATI FireGL cards crash on bad GLSL code and GL is right there in the name!

Re:Driver quality (1)

Wrath0fb0b (302444) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627406)

THAT is a shootout I would like to see. Even entry-level cards are "good enough" for casual gaming, and mid-range cards are great for even newer games at high resolution.

First off, the two giants fight for the middle levels by cutting prices on the last-gen technology so there's nothing to report other than "it's 2011, you can get cutting-edge 2010 performance for 1/3rd the price". But everyone already knew that, and there's nothing new to report about the 2010-tech at a new price point.

Second, entry levels cards don't make the kind of margins you need to sustain an 18-month release cycle while keeping the fabs busy.I'm quite glad that the hardware world obsesses over a few extra FPS because that pushes up the point where the last-gen cards get marked down to sane prices. So whenever I see a story like this, instead of thinking "Gee, why do they sell a $500 video card", I think the proper response is "Excellent, my $100 now goes a lot further".

Finally, I have set to see any unstable graphics drivers in the past few years, either in Windows or Linux despite running an ungainly assortment of hardware (university group) with various low-end video cards (lots of 3D rendering, mostly using VMD, which is OpenGL). No issues installing the drivers in either Ubuntu or Fedora either, which helpfully provide one-click installation for the right blobs.

Re:Driver quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627440)

Am I the only one who hasn't had video driver stability issues (on Windows) for YEARS?
It could be a capacity issue with your PSU, or a heat problem with your case.

And since when are KDE/Gnome "major" platforms?
When your market share [wikipedia.org] is within the margin of error, you're hardly "major"....

Re:Driver quality (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627678)

Am I the only one who hasn't had video driver stability issues (on Windows) for YEARS? It could be a capacity issue with your PSU, or a heat problem with your case.

And since when are KDE/Gnome "major" platforms? When your market share [wikipedia.org] is within the margin of error, you're hardly "major"....

I have instability on my windows machine ... but only when it's balancing on my lap. I don't have that problem with my MBP, it's too hot to hold on my lap, so I have to use a desk ...

Re:Driver quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627512)

Linux?

Seriously?

Who the hell uses high end video cards on Linux and for what possible reason?

Ditto to a lesser extent OSX.

These are not Workstation cards we are talking about, they are 99.99% about gaming and the last time I checked, this is the purview of WINDOWS.

So take your Penguin and your Snow Cat and go grep yourself.

And for the record, I have a Mac, an iPad, an iPhone, and a Linux server in my house, along with a Windows desktop and Windows Server.

Re:Driver quality (1)

by (1706743) (1706744) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627774)

So take your Penguin...and go grep yourself.

...

And for the record, I have...a Linux server in my house...

Clearly you don't -- otherwise, you would've said, "go fsck yourself" ;)

promotion of http://informationbd.info/ (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627228)

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You want to know who rigs benchmarks? (1)

mykos (1627575) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627268)

Take a look at HAWX 2, the only game in the universe where a GTX 460 beats a 6990

AMD did not challenge, read the legalese (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627310)

The fine print on his blog states: "His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD’s positions, strategies or opinions". Unless an authorized, official representative of AMD officially challenges NVIDIA on graphics performance, the corporation 'AMD' is NOT challenging the corporation 'NVIDIA'. It is merely one opinion of the many employees at AMD.

Re:AMD did not challenge, read the legalese (1)

jd (1658) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627452)

Even the official comments will have disclaimers. I'm surprised the disclaimers don't have disclaimers. Not because I'm "for" one side or the other, but because I know that companies are risk-averse and lawyers like to add stuff they can charge for later.

Re:AMD did not challenge, read the legalese (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627682)

The fine print on his blog states: "His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD’s positions, strategies or opinions". Unless an authorized, official representative of AMD officially challenges NVIDIA on graphics performance, the corporation 'AMD' is NOT challenging the corporation 'NVIDIA'. It is merely one opinion of the many employees at AMD.

That's right, one of the senior marketing managers posts on an official blog that their product is better, and he wants to test it against the competitor. CLEARLY that's not an official comment.

Fight! Fight! Nigger and a white (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627330)

if the nigger don't win then we all jump in!

Yeah, yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627366)

I've seen this movie. One beats the other so the loser then claims the testing software wasn't optimized to properly utilize their new fantazimo-gizmo processor so the test is moot.
 

"Independent" benchmarks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627374)

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html [videocardbenchmark.net]

I usually base it on the above, as far as I can tell the Nvidia GPUs are both faster than ATI and pound for pound they are cheaper too!

Been Canadian, I used to be a big fan of ATI video cards having owned several all-in-wonder cards (from PCI to AGP types) I have had plenty of experience with the product. Unfortunately, I have found the quality of their drivers to be very inconsistent from release to release.

I stopped using ATI in favour of Matrox and Nvidia. Matrox has provided the most stable drivers and Nvidia has been "more" consistently pushing out reliable hardware with a quality driver.

My challenge is simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627420)

Which can bake my muffins and cupcakes the fastest! See thanks to the Lightbulb Law, I can no longer use my EZbake Oven so I need an alternative.

Ante-up AMD and NVDIA! I need my baked goods!

CUDA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627448)

I need my cards to be able to do GPU-enabled crunching on Matlab, which means NVidia > AMD. Yes, this is a highly niche field and I do spend more time gaming than this but an eight-hour difference in computing time means more time for games!

(yes, I'm aware I could just get another computer dedicated for this)

Re:CUDA (1)

sanman2 (928866) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627486)

Big deal, AMD and Apple support OpenCL, so NVIDIA's CUDA isn't the only game in town.

Thrown Down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627470)

But does it have a Linux driver.

Slashdot is a PIECE OF SHIT!!! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627550)

Hello, What the fuck /. ! Post My comment already You Fucks !

Yeah but, ATI still unstable... (3, Informative)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627580)

OK, to be fair it's been over a year since I ran ATI hardware (a 4650), but I replaced it with nvidia hardware because I couldn't get the darn thing to stop crashing. I miss my ATI hardware. It has nicer image quality and better tv out/in support for my old TV card and games. I ran a 1650 for years, but than again that was just an overclocked 9800, and every bug under the sun was worked out 10 times over on that. Maybe it's my fault for running less popular games, but come 'on. Psychonauts should not crash like clockwork just because the floaty neon things are on screen...

I guess what I'm saying it, AMD, call me when you're drivers can run something other than this years Call of Duty game & WoW

Heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627598)

This computer's motherboard has an AMD CPU and NVIDIA chipset.

3d support (1)

strack (1051390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627620)

hey, i got a idea, they can do the benchmarks in stereoscopic shutter glasses 3d. that is, if amd has any real support for it yet.

Re:3d support (1)

Auroch (1403671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35627698)

hey, i got a idea, they can do the benchmarks in stereoscopic shutter glasses 3d. that is, if amd has any real support for it yet.

Sounds good. Maybe we can use 6 different 3d displays at the same time! ... oh wait ...

Real Public Relations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627694)

I think everyone should stop being bogged down in any kind of fanboi arguments and pay attention.

This is what we want from our companies. If every major company had this kind of PR, we would live in a much better world. Aren't you all sick and tired of companies blasting you with lines like "Here at CorporationX we value our customers, and that is why we are initiating our new 99 point plan on Customer Feedback Appreciation and Service Excellence. This new plan will allow us to further define future solutions to the current problems that plague you, our customers. In addition, we are rolling out a new platform designed to bring us closer together with our customer base. Through our new Prime Integrated Solutions and Services(TM) model we will be able to develop more press releases like this one that don't actually say anything and serve as nothing other than foreplay to what will certainly be the Board Room Lemon Party"

Seriously, I've worked for a ton of companies that had no idea how to communicate outside to real people and for once I am just happy to see a company say "We make X claim about our product and THIS IS WHY. Here's some people that agree with us. Here's our competitor making claim Y, where is their basis for making this claim?"

Every word of that blog post is valid and welcomed by a consumer that has always felt amazingly disconnected from the corporate machine that produces what I consume.

Graphics cards need to go the other way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627734)

If the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p [macrumors.com] without whirring fans and RRODs, then so should these cards. Graphics cards are becoming increasingly cumbersome and huge in a world where laptops and tablets are gaining market share over desktops. If AMD can fit the 6990 into an iPad then it will get my next purchase.

Jen Hsun-Huang, I'm looking at you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35627752)

Still got that can of whoop-ass handy?

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