×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Nokia - No More Symbian Phones After 2012

samzenpus posted about 3 years ago | from the end-of-the-line dept.

Handhelds 234

mikejuk writes "After the decision to go with Windows Phone 7 it has been obvious that the fate of the Symbian Phone — the phone that sold more than iPhone or Android — wasn't good. However where there is life there is hope and some developers and users clung to the hope that there might be more Symbian phones in the future. Perhaps they could coexist with Nokia Windows Phone 7 devices. Now, in a open letter to developers Nokia have made it clear that they will create no more Symbian phones after 2012 and they will just wait for the old phones to fade way while trying to sell Windows Phones to the existing users."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

234 comments

The end of Nokia (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636520)

...is coming in 2012!

Re:The end of Nokia (5, Insightful)

Tor (2685) | about 3 years ago | (#35636682)

The biggest issue was not that they abandoned Symbian. They were already set to do that anyway, what with MeeGo taking over on their highest-end devices and gradually onto mid-tier smartphones.

The biggest blunder was that they abandoned Qt as a development platform. That was their one strategy that would have kept new applications and development coming. You'd write an app using Qt (with some enhancements), and would with minimal effort be able to tailor both Symbian^3 and MeeGo devices.

That train has now left the station. There is now NO SINGLE application environment that a developer can use to tailor current and future Nokia phones. Not Java/J2ME. Not Symbian. Not MeeGo/Maemo. Not Qt.

Nokia has made a lot of serious blunders throughout the last few years (the N85 hardware quality, the N97 software quality, an ASD style management, etc). Allowing themselves to be completely hijacked by Elan/Microsoft for a last ditch futile attempt to promote WP7 is nothing short of astounding. The worlds largest cell phone maker, and at one point in recent history Europe's most valuable company, completely destroyed as little more than a pawn in Steve Ballmer's clumsy quest for making Microsoft relevant again is simply nothing short of astounding.

Nokias. Biggest. Blunder. Ever.

Re:The end of Nokia (4, Insightful)

eshefer (12336) | about 3 years ago | (#35636792)

yeah.

from a buisness POV this makes even less sense.

if winmo7 fails - they're dead.
If the Winmo7 strategy works, everyone will go tho winmo7 and gut them. then they'll be dead.

Nokia's ex-CEO said something about wsitching to android is like peeing yourself in winter time for warmth. all I see when I look at Nokia is a giant puddle, and the urin wasn't even warm to begin with.

Re:The end of Nokia (1)

dbcad7 (771464) | about 3 years ago | (#35637028)

If it fails, they will jump on the Android train and get a new CEO.

Re:The end of Nokia (2)

eshefer (12336) | about 3 years ago | (#35637142)

have you ever tried jumping on a moving train?

unless they have teams working on android compatability NOW, they'll be dead.

  it will take them more then a year to ship a Winmo7 based product. how long do you think it will take them to ship an android product? where do you think HTC, Motorola and the rest of the gang will be by the time they ship and android version. (and we're talking about AT LEAST two years from now. how much cash will they have by then?

i

Re:The end of Nokia (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about 3 years ago | (#35636802)

I basically agree with you. It was definitely not the decision to ditch Symbian. Frankly, I was never impressed with Symbian in the first place. I never got a chance to play with MeeGo because they abandoned my N810 before they could port the software over to it.

And the decision to go with Windows phone? Well, pretty much everyone knew what that meant from the first news of it. I have never known a happy Windows phone user. Never. Not one. Some might intuitively thing the best MS Exchange support would be found there -- wrong -- it was iPhone. Microsoft once measured their success by how much "piracy" was going on with their apps, their OSes and the apps written for their OSes. "Look how popular we are!" Have a look at any file sharing site... see anything for Windows phones? I can't say that I have ever seen anything except, perhaps, OS update loads for Dell Axiom... I know, not a phone, but you see have far I had to go?

Microsoft isn't ever going to be mainstream with their Windows phones.

And still the industries out there cannot manage to resist Microsoft's call. When Microsoft partners up with you, watch out. If the partnership goes bad, you are the loser. If the partnership goes good, Microsoft will buy you in short order. This has been going on for a very long time. No one seems to notice.

Re:The end of Nokia (2)

somersault (912633) | about 3 years ago | (#35636966)

And still the industries out there cannot manage to resist Microsoft's call. When Microsoft partners up with you, watch out. If the partnership goes bad, you are the loser. If the partnership goes good, Microsoft will buy you in short order. This has been going on for a very long time. No one seems to notice.

Nokia stupidly brought onboard an ex-Microsoft/Adobe/Macromedia guy as CEO [wsj.com]. Sure these companies have all been successful in some regards, but they generally write awful bloated and insecure software, which is not something I'd want on a lightweight mobile device.. or indeed any device.

Re:The end of Nokia (1)

jimicus (737525) | about 3 years ago | (#35637000)

I don't think Nokia actually have a cohesive strategy - or if they do, they're not engaging their own staff with it.

It's anecdotal - and I won't go into detail because I don't think it's entirely appropriate - but I've interviewed there and my impression was very much a company running around like the proverbial headless chicken trying desperately to come up with an idea that would enjoy some serious success, but seldom with any thought or strategy behind those ideas.

Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (2)

1s44c (552956) | about 3 years ago | (#35636528)

Why Nokia? Why? Do the management like Microsoft money more than they like staying in business?

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (3, Insightful)

pablo_max (626328) | about 3 years ago | (#35636550)

I agree that MS is a losing proposition, but symbian will also quickly bring the company to an end. It is a truly terrible OS compared to a modern streamlined OS like iOS of Android.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (4, Insightful)

theweatherelectric (2007596) | about 3 years ago | (#35636670)

I agree that MS is a losing proposition, but symbian will also quickly bring the company to an end. It is a truly terrible OS compared to a modern streamlined OS like iOS of Android.

Yes. On the other hand, I find Maemo to be better than both iOS and Android. I think the problem was that Nokia lost focus when they decided to start with MeeGo. It would have been wiser to maintain focus on Maemo for another year or two while treating MeeGo as more of a background project.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (3, Interesting)

Compaqt (1758360) | about 3 years ago | (#35636744)

It wasn't about Symbian. It was about Qt, an target which would have allowed developers to program for current and future devices (and desktops).

They were trying like crazy to get people to develop for them, what with the $10 million prize and all.

Here's a recent little plea [peer360.com] from Nokia to developers:

What I can promise you is that we will not just abandon Symbian users or developers. As a very minimum, we have a legal obligation, varying in length between countries, to support users for a period of time after the last product has been sold. Our intention is that when users come to the end of the natural lifecycle of their Symbian device they will make the change to a Nokia Windows Phone device and so it would not be in our interests to undermine their Nokia smartphone experience.

Then:

All together, this means your investment in Qt is a safe choice for skill competency, monetization opportunities and brand awareness amongst our millions of users.

Yeah, right.

If I were developer, I think I'd target Android because of the numbers, and Linux-based WebOS [wikipedia.org], because it seems cool. (Inputting the Konami code [wikipedia.org] to enter dev mode? Highly geeky.)

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | about 3 years ago | (#35637138)

It wasn't about Symbian. It was about Qt, an target which would have allowed developers to program for current and future devices (and desktops).

I wonder why they didn't port Qt to Windows Phone 7. It would have enabled to bring all the applications written for the other platforms to WP7 with minimal effort, thus giving them both the applications already developed for the other phones using Qt and the applications developed specifically for WP7.
Given that they had Qt both running on (desktop) Windows and on (Linux based) phones, porting it should not have been that hard.

BTW, did the current Qt copyright holders also get the rights needed for putting it on phones? If so, they could release an Android version of it ...

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#35636910)

The problem is that symbian, while basically just plain unfit for purpose as a modern smartphone OS, can and does run as intended on hardware that would make its next-get contenders cry bitter tears very, very, slowly.

Unless they have something else in mind, "no more symbian" = "We aren't even going to try on the low end"

They recent symbian "flagship" phones have been pretty sad, roughly the same price as a decent android for yesterday's OS and hardware specs; but it'd be sad to see Nokia's classic low-ends, the dumb candybars that get a week on a charge, don't care about being dropped, and just keep on trucking, go.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35637050)

Tell me when an android phone or iPhone has a camera that is better than a years old Sony or Nokia and I might believe that they are "high-end".

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 3 years ago | (#35637126)

The low end is getting higher. When I got my first cellphone it was one of those Sony/Qualcomm sliders for Sprint PCS. It could hardly do anything. [Much] later I got a Motorola Triplets phone, it ran around 200 MHz. Later I got a RAZR which is basically the same thing but twice as fast. Now for what I paid for that you can get a smartphone.

The super low-end phones are about to go away completely because it's getting too cheap to make a better phone.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about 3 years ago | (#35637070)

Yeah, getting an order of magnitude better battery life is just so old-fashioned. We should embrace the tied to the wall model of real modern mobile OS (sigh).

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636582)

Na, they've tried for a decade to ignore users, delay releases for announced devices, nottin' worked, the pesky users stay'd. Now it look they finally get what they want.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (3, Interesting)

bloodhawk (813939) | about 3 years ago | (#35636602)

It is a gamble, but not as much as a gamble as sticking with symbian, symbian has been dead for a while, it remains to be seen whether they jumped from the titanic to an equally doomed ship though, only time will tell. Remember even if the gamble fails they can always join the Android bandwagon, phones are rapidly replaced, if they got enough from MS for this it could well be a relatively risk free venture and you can be pretty sure regardless of what the marketing are pushing there will be backup plans and work going on in the backrooms.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (3, Insightful)

js_sebastian (946118) | about 3 years ago | (#35636890)

It is a gamble, but not as much as a gamble as sticking with symbian, symbian has been dead for a while

Symbian still has the largest installed base of any phone OS, and was just recently surpassed by android as the most sold phone OS. It may have strong in a lower-end market segment with lower margins, and it may have been declining, but saying it was dead is just US-centric uninformed drivel. Transitioning away from it with an application compatibility path provided by Qt may have been a good strategy, but by just dumping it for microsoft WP7 they are basically committing harakiri in emerging markets where they are by far the strongest phone maker.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 3 years ago | (#35637090)

Qt didn't provide a very good transition path if the goal was to get away from Symbian. Symbian was a great kernel design, but the userspace APIs were getting a bit dated. They contained a lot of tricks that let you squeeze apps into under 1MB of RAM, which just piss off developers when they are targeting phones with 64-512MB of RAM and the API's making them jump through hoops to save the odd byte on common data types. What Symbian needed was an updated UI and a rewritten set of APIs for app developers, without breaking existing software. Instead, they had a dozen or so teams solving the wrong problem in different and incompatible ways.

The hardware isn't the problem (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | about 3 years ago | (#35636942)

You think you can switch from developing on Symbian -> Windows Phone at the drop of a hat? Or from Windows Phone -> Android?

It all takes time. Time which Android is using to become the defacto, open standard.

2011 is basically going to be the year of Android *everywhere*, and after that... Frankly, too late, The Network Effect is in place.
 

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | about 3 years ago | (#35636698)

Well, they weren't doing that good a job of competing in the smart-phone business before the MS buyoutdeal. The oft quoted fact that Symbian phones outnumber iPhone and Android combined is no longer the case (just) and the Symbian share is falling rapidly. The 80+% share of the smartphone market in 2008/2009 included other manufacturers (not just Nokia so that 80% should not be taken as meaning Nokia had 80% of the market) but all the others have since dropped Symbian from the new ranges, Nokia is just the last to do so. They were no making significant money on the smartphone market despite all the investment (some of it misguided as they had teams effectively working on things that had been solved already elsewhere) they were piling into developing stuff.

Re:Goodbye Nokia, it was nice knowing you. (1)

williamhb (758070) | about 3 years ago | (#35636830)

Why Nokia? Why? Do the management like Microsoft money more than they like staying in business?

Comparatively, MS must look pretty good - in that "very distant third place" (where I'd guess WP7 will be in 2012) is much better than "completely dead" (where Symbian and MeeGo would be in 2012). Already in 2011, I've seen mobile phone stands in shopping centres here effectively categorising their phones to the user as "Here's the iPhone, here's our Android phones, here's some Windows Phone 7 phones on businessy-sounding plans, and here's some assorted crap". Symbian and MeeGo were never going to get the recognition to get out of the "here's some assorted crap" category. Phone 7 will probably have a smallish market share, but with MS doing all the advertising spending, and Nokia having been given billions by MS just for turning up.

There are also a couple of things that might just help Phone 7 eke out a slice of the market. The first is that (where I am anyway) carriers all put iPhones on ridiculously expensive plans, whether or not it actually costs much more as a device. So any other smartphone gets a big price advantage to the consumer just for not being an iPhone. The second is if Google doesn't manage to squash the "rogue apps" problem completely -- people are much more personal about their phones than their computers, and thoughts of rogue apps running up large bills will scare people, especially as (again, where I am) carriers won't help customers stop their data usage from going hundreds of dollars over the limit in their plan -- because they use that fear to sell people bigger data plans than they need. So that'd be an irony of ironies -- security problems pushing people towards Microsoft!

Old news, but thank God! (1)

pablo_max (626328) | about 3 years ago | (#35636530)

Seriously, I dug out my old N95 to let a friend use it for the navi. Going through the one, it is astonishing just how bad the UI really it. It is such an unintuitive OS. Why they were so slow to jump into a modern OS is beyond me. Though..I would not have gone for MS Phone. That can only end in tears.

Re:Old news, but thank God! (4, Interesting)

dsvilko (217134) | about 3 years ago | (#35636772)

Am I the only one that will really miss Symbian? I am no developer but I really liked my low-end S60 smartphones. UI may not be as fancy but when it comes to functionality and performance/price ratio these were the best phones I have ever head. System-wide copy-paste, BT file transfers, WLAN tethering, true multitasking and background processes, video calls.... it had it all for ages. On-board Python interpreter with a full API access is also extremely cool feature that I believe no modern OS can match. I also had StyleTap installed and so I could run almost all of my PalmOS programs, some of which are still much better than anything that is currently available for iOS or Android. All in all, I will miss it. When I will be finally forced to switch to Android, I think I'll miss more features than I will gain by a fancy UI.

Re:Old news, but thank God! (1)

moonbender (547943) | about 3 years ago | (#35636912)

UI may not be as fancy but when it comes to functionality and performance/price ratio these were the best phones I have ever head.

That's why I bought, most recently, a 5800XM. Can't say I've regretted the decision, it's a moderately powerful phone for a very modest price. I wanted GPS and 802.11b, and at the time, you simply could not get that from another manufacturer for less than double the price. The UI really is awful, though, awful awful awful. That is partly due to the fact that Nokia had to make a number of sacrifices to get the price that low: a slow processor means slow transitions between screens and even between landscape and portrait mode, which is incredibly annoying. Oh yeah, and a resistive touchscreen -- that took some getting used to.

Fortunately, these days you can get an Android phone for a very reasonable price, with mostly the same features and better hardware than an equally prized Nokia phone. And a much more active developer community to boot. So there's a good exit option from the sinking Nokia ship.

Re:Old news, but thank God! (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 3 years ago | (#35637120)

Am I the only one that will really miss Symbian?

Nope. The UI needed an update, as did some of the developer APIs designed for really low memory environments, but the kernel (EXA2 especially) is a really beautiful design. A simple but powerful capabilities model and power management designed into the driver model from the ground up. A realtime nanokernel that could run multiple OS personalities, so you could have the hard realtime OS for the radio and the main Symbian OS microkernel running on the same core. Device driver separation, with the privileged-mode component just handling exposing the device to userspace, and a (typically, much bigger) userspace component handling allowing different apps to use it. Pervasive multithreading from the nanokernel up, so it would scale nicely to n-core machines.

Re:Old news, but thank God! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636930)

What do you think is "intuitive" about iOS or Android?

All interface activities on those systems have to be demonstrated to a new user. That is not intuition.

Re:Old news, but thank God! (2)

glebovitz (202712) | about 3 years ago | (#35637076)

I always use the "wife" and "mom" factor to judge technology. Both wife and mom hate their Android phones. They can't figure out how to use them without much coaching. The iPhone has a good "wife" and "mom" usability factor as does the iPad. With very little coaching they were using these IOS based products within minutes. The Windows phone was also reasonable, but they felt it had too much glitz and much less intuitive then the iPhone. The Symbian phone was easier for "wife" and "mom" then the Android phone, but below the iPhone and the Windows Phone.

I am not an Apple fan, though I do use the iPhone as my primary phone.

Nokia is betting the Software capabilities and marketing strength of Microsoft to bootstrap them into the 21st century. Who knows, with a successful WIndows Phone Nokia might consider adding Android.

Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

msavory (1734428) | about 3 years ago | (#35636548)

Well, I was about to get an N8 in the next few days- it was a choice between the N8 and Desire HD, but the N8 did it for me due to the camera and battery life. Would it be wise to avoid this now?

Re:Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 3 years ago | (#35636736)

Well, I was about to get an N8 in the next few days- it was a choice between the N8 and Desire HD, but the N8 did it for me due to the camera and battery life. Would it be wise to avoid this now?

If you get a new phone every year then I don't think it will make much difference. If you keep them until they fall apart then expect a lack of apps and support towards the end.

Re:Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

msavory (1734428) | about 3 years ago | (#35636796)

Probably looking at having it for a few years. I think I may just have to go for it anyway, and with a bit of luck the price will come down.

Re:Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | about 3 years ago | (#35636812)

How long do you usually keep a phone? If you are someone who churns through them, even high-end smartphone models, at one every 12 or 18 months then this makes no difference: the apps that exist will still exist and there will be phones out there so people developing for them (or at least maintaining existing apps) for at least that long. If you are looking at the phone with a view to it lasting three years or more then this announcement will have greater potential to be an issue for you.

Re:Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

MrHanky (141717) | about 3 years ago | (#35636822)

If you need a good camera, why not buy a Nexus S or one of the new Sony Ericssons instead? HTC's cameras are fairly poor.

I'd say the N8 is a pretty safe buy anyway, as the Desire HD (along with the rest of today's smartphones) will be pretty much obsolete by 2013 as well.

Re:Bad idea to buy an N8 (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 3 years ago | (#35637006)

Probably because no one is even close to the level of quality of N8's camera?

It's essentially like saying "well sure, that bugatti is nice for speed, but so is my sporty looking audi, which is a lot better then toyota!" /car analogy

Why Nokia Why? (2)

shione (666388) | about 3 years ago | (#35636564)

why pay for a os when you could get one for free from google. Also what about the basic phone market? Not everyone wants a smartphone.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636626)

The "why" question has been answered before. Basic phones (S40) are still on the roadmap.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636644)

They do not pay for it, actually Microsoft pays them to use and develop the OS.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636690)

Don't be naive. Android isn't "free". Manufacturers have to pay dearly to include the google-specific apps and access to the app-store.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 3 years ago | (#35636740)

Don't be naive. Android isn't "free". Manufacturers have to pay dearly to include the google-specific apps and access to the app-store.

Neither of which they have to do.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636872)

No, but a phone without the google apps (think GMail, Google Maps, etc) and, more importantly, the Google Market, won't be a very big seller.

The openness of Android is marketing, the rest is mostly vendor-lock-in.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636902)

Every single alternative app market for android is pathetic. I don't see much hope of another one turning up that isn't pathetic.

Personally, I'm very unhappy when a device doesn't have the official google app store simply because that's the largest, so that's the one where people pay attention to flaws in software. Defects in a widely used system get discovered and corrected, instead of just languishing in obscurity and doing their harm forever.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (2)

asdf7890 (1518587) | about 3 years ago | (#35636726)

They are not paying MS. The deal works out that they get a large pile of MS money to develop their Window Mobile range, at least initially. Joining the Android market late would have put them in the "plucky newcomer" category competing against the established leaders in that arena like HTC, so in the Windows Mobile world they have more chance of a level playing field in that arena and more chance of a little control to nudge things in the direction they think best than they'd have with Android (ignoring the forking option, which wouldn't work well for them any more than what they were previously doing to try replace Symbian).

Re:Why Nokia Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636870)

why pay for a os when you could get one for free from google. Also what about the basic phone market? Not everyone wants a smartphone.

Because many people might not be happy with the free alternative. Many people are happy using Android and they will keep using Android. But why assume that everybody will want to use the cheapest (or the freest as in freedom option) just because it exists? When the actual price of the OS is maybe around 10 or 20 bucks, many people might just say "I'd rather pay less than a lunch for 2 to have something I'll enjoy for a couple of years". It's great that we, as a civilization, can enjoy free technologies, but don't assume that the best technology is always the free one (when in may cases, it's quite the opposite).

Re:Why Nokia Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636924)

This is a fallacious comment. Of course everyone DOES want a smartphone. It's just that not everyone wants to pay what it costs.

Re:Why Nokia Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35637072)

They are not getting out of the basic phone market. In fact they are investing more in it. Have you not heard of their goal of connecting "the next billion". They aren't doing that with WP7.

Nokia is a dynamic company (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636568)

Soon they will start saying "Symbian (or MeeGo) is the future" things all over again. They're tough.

Re:Nokia is a dynamic company (1)

anomaly256 (1243020) | about 3 years ago | (#35636622)

Hehe, have you tried meego yet? It's ugly, slow, and pretty useless. Sure it's still 'in development' but nothing short of a 'throw it in the bin and start again' can save that ship. I guess this was the lesser of 2 bottom-of-the-barrel evils.

Re:Nokia is a dynamic company (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 3 years ago | (#35636640)

Hehe, have you tried meego yet?

Yes, it works well and it's WAY more configurable than any other locked-down nonsense phone OS.

Re:Nokia is a dynamic company (1)

anomaly256 (1243020) | about 3 years ago | (#35637108)

Also, I think you're probably confusing maemo with meego, which is not the same thing. Meego isn't anywhere near 'working' yet so I don't understand how your comments fit at all in that context..

babys; few/none of us after nazi holycost (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636584)

that's the thinking where the du is flying. as for the fake 'weather' seismic saboteurs, yuk. as for disempowering unprecedented evile et al, what's the rush? we can learn to do/be less than) nothing?

not many (really) bad guys survive a photon burst

as a matter of fact, we're finding photons (in their 'singular' form) to be quite useful as a general purpose life extender.

seems like we already have enough rigging to escape a few of us out of here, but if we were a bit more careful, we could extend our stay until we could all go along. plus, by then, we'll have a clear destination?

looks like we're having a little trouble with math, science & history. like we can't tell what happened, because there's now so many versions of what we know didn't happen, &/or when, & how many innocents were damaged/killed. seems like real history is catching up with us a bit (definitely you & i), & may help us see, if we let it.

there's also some barely identifiable bad guys, as we're sure you know, they peddle death, & some other not good stuff, for money etc...

it's not like they can be blown out of the sky, but we knew it would be like this. we have a few billion little ones that we've grown very fond of, so we're working on keeping them undead. as you likely already know, their dna is highly advanced, & they are the vast majority, they have better eyesight than birds, & are fully photon (intentional healing) functional. hurting even one of them (or any of us) sets the whole cosmos on edge. we've heard that from space, it now looks like we're making the planet into a black hole. do we need a black hole, or any big holes, in the planet?

if we were a little younger (or something), we'd show them how to not wreck anything else, or kill anybody else. we've also heard that for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a 'debt'? makes sense. thanks again

Re:babys; few/none of us after nazi holycost (0)

chichilalescu (1647065) | about 3 years ago | (#35636768)

yes, but in "the sound and the fury" Benjy's story is the easiest to understand.

time's taking a turn, disabled no longer unless.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636886)

reminds us of the vietnam era times 10 exponentized.

this could have been written then as well, but we/US were even more happy then

  "Now is not the time for timidity or compromise. Nor is it time for defensiveness and conciliation.
However, Now is the time to take the offense in the struggle.
    Electing the best politician will never be enough. We need Statesmen, men and woman with the code of right and wrong within them. Patriots, not politicians. True representatives of the people, not usurpers of office.
    Don't be taken in by the agendas of those who would desert the constitution for political advancement. Don't be taken by Fear tactics, False Evidence Appearing Real by those who seek office for political gain.
    It is our duty, for freedoms sake, to restore liberty, security, responsibility, and our Constitutional document itself once again into the life blood of America.
    Remember the words of Thomas Jefferson..." Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty".
If despotism is your cup of tea, then do nothing. "This republic was not established by cowards and cowards will not defend it". (Elmer Davis-1800-1858)
    However, if life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, the rule of law, our Constitution, and the reason this nation was founded in the first place is what you desire...then as Patriots you will not stand silent as this administration attempts to dismantle the greatest nation on the face of the earth, and the last best hope for mankind.
    If we are to go down, as Patriots let us go down standing up, facing the enemy...FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM AND OUR (about to be reviewed/enforced?) CONSTITUTION"

Mind the gap (2)

Dynamoo (527749) | about 3 years ago | (#35636600)

There's a big, big gap between the spec of a base-level WP7 smartphone and the highest-spec Series 40 "dumbphone". Symbian is nicely filling a gap in the midrange market that Nokia don't have a replacement for. Will Nokia simply walk away from this market segment?

I'm not convinced at all that Nokia have worked out how to deal with the midrange. Yeah, we all know that WP7 is going to be the OS for high-end smartphones, and Nokia are "looking to the next billion sales" for cheaper stuff. However, the message for everything else has been confusing and inconsistent.

Here's one way of looking at it - Nokia: Mind the Gap [mobilegazette.com].

Re:Mind the gap (2)

ProbablyJoe (1914672) | about 3 years ago | (#35636754)

My thoughts exactly. For all the hate against WP7 (which I agree with, but it's besides the point), WP7 and Symbian have quite different target audiences, overall. While there are plenty of high end Symbians like the N8, I haven't seen any low end WP7 phones. Are Nokia really going to go all out on high end smartphones? They've been failing badly in that market as is, but they've been able to survive thanks to their mid to low range phones

Betting their high end market on WP7 is one thing - it's fairly safe, and will at least guarantee -some- sales, even if it will never be remarkable. But betting the entire company on it? Sounds like suicide to me

Re:Mind the gap (2)

asdf7890 (1518587) | about 3 years ago | (#35636766)

Is the mid-range market really big enough to be worth them investing a lot in though?

In my experience (warning: anecdotal evidence detected) the people who "just want a phone that can call and text" won't pay the extra for a mid-range device as they don't need nor want the extra features (the current economy has put pay to there being many people who get something a bit better than they currently need just-in-case), and most people who want a smart-phone want a high-range one either because they need/want the capabilities of one or because they are keeping up with the Joneses.

Re:Mind the gap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35637044)

USD36 was the price of my phone. I have bought a few other phones the last few years, but not one above USD45. I do not need a crappy untrusted PDA. Psion Series 3 is the last PDAs I believed in. It just worked. Not so flexible, but dependable.

Would be happy to pay USD1000 or more for the right combination of built quality, OS security, flexibility, and openness. Not one of the more "advanced" consumer devices I have tested has anything near a decent security. They are all bad or extremely bad.

I always buy my units without a contract.

Re:Mind the gap (4, Insightful)

Compaqt (1758360) | about 3 years ago | (#35636780)

Well, I don't know if Nokia will walk away from the market, but the market certainly might.

Before: (Nokia to the market) Buy our somewhat-cheap Symbian phones. You can buy Qt apps, and they'll continue to work on Meego when we (finally) release it.

Now: (Nokia to market) Buy our somewhat-cheap Symbian phones. You can buy Qt apps, and they won't work on our new, high-end phone line. And we'll make vague statements about Meego, while burying it in a few months.

Now: (Market to Nokia). And why shouldn't I buy a cheap Chinese/Indian Android phone, buy my apps, and move up to a nice Android phone (with apps intact) later?

Sandrine (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636636)

This is Excellent. Great comments and a welcome break from the norm.
www.travelandspeak.com

wow! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636650)

check out www.maximumgpt.net were you get $5-$250 amazon gift cards daily!

Re:wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636752)

Your lame-assed site won't work with AdBlock enabled. Screw them! You, too, Spammer.

WTF? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636654)

Symbian currently has around a third of the smartphone market - second only to Android. About double what iPhone has. Three times as much as Blackberry. It's a lot. Yes, it's going to fade. But putting ALL their eggs into Windows Phone 7 is insane. There's no way the total Windows smartphone share (nevermind Nokia's individual share) is going to get anywhere close to where they are in the space of a year. It's highly unlikely it can even catch up with Blackberry let alone iPhone let alone Android.

They'e going to lose all their customers. This is a suicide move.

Re:WTF? (2)

moonbender (547943) | about 3 years ago | (#35636838)

Most of their current customers don't give a damn about their phone's OS and have probably never heard the name Symbian. (Though I agree selling out to MS was a dumb move.)

Re:WTF? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636938)

Most of their current customers don't give a damn about their phone's OS and have probably never heard the name Symbian.

I doubt they care about the name "Symbian". It's pretty absurd to claim they don't care about the OS they interact with when using the phone though. They looked at a range of phones, presumably considered factors like features and price point, and picked one. Maybe it was a complete lucky dip but I doubt it. Are the same people going to pick Windows phone 7? Doubt it. Selling both might be a chance to grow market share. And probably Symbian would need to be dropped one day. Dropping Symbian in 2012 though is insane.

Re:WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636988)

I think more Nokia users know Symbian (incorrectly) as the Sybian female masturbatory machine.

So Basically (1)

Gonoff (88518) | about 3 years ago | (#35636656)

It looks like Nokia is ruling itself out of a number of markets including, geeks, fanbois, those without cash to burn and those who know about phones.

Which other groups have I missed?

Re:So Basically (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636692)

Well your group covers about 5% of the market, I guess they must be chasing the other 95% of the market.

geeks and fanbois make up an extreme minority and are generally not a market you want to specifically chase for mass market products, if your product appeals to them great, if not then you really haven't lost a lot, those without cash to burn are also without cash to make a profit from.

Re:So Basically (1)

Gonoff (88518) | about 3 years ago | (#35637032)

I suspect people on limited budgets are a large and increasing part of the market - perhaps 20%? I guess it depends on how limited...

Cold dead hands (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636658)

If you want my Symbian phone, Nokia, you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands!

Re:Cold dead hands (4, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about 3 years ago | (#35636696)

If you want my Symbian phone, Nokia, you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands!

No. They will wait until it breaks and refuse to sell you a replacement.

Re:Cold dead hands (1)

icebraining (1313345) | about 3 years ago | (#35636800)

My 10 year old 3310 still works perfectly, even now in the hands of a pre-teen, so I don't know if that will work.

For the price, Nokia phones are surprisingly robust. I've rarely seen one fail (except for the battery, but you can get a unofficial replacement very cheaply).

Re:Cold dead hands (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 3 years ago | (#35637092)

3210, 12 years old, currently my secondary phone. Going on its 5th (if remember correctly) battery. No other problems with the phone.

I do hope that nokia doesn't die. The asian crap motherboards and soldering work present in most modern phones (korean, chinese, japanese designed china made, california designed china made, etc) is just shit and won't live through 3 years in most cases. Nokia? Drag it through hell and it will still work a decade later.

Re:Cold dead hands (1)

nicodoggie (1228876) | about 3 years ago | (#35637110)

Me and my classmates used to play catch with a 3310. The thing often fell on a hard concrete floor from about 7 ft off the ground as a result. Surprisingly, it would still turn on, and even more surprisingly, still work, every time we put the casing back together.

It had a few scratches here and there, but for all 6 years I had it (2nd hand by the way) the phone worked like a dream. The only reason I don't have it right now, is because someone nicked it from my pocket along with my wallet some concert.

It still doesn't mean that the latest generation Nokia phones are as hardy as the black-and-white stuff though, maybe the recent ones already have some planned obsolescence built-in...

Hardware buttons (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | about 3 years ago | (#35636814)

For me, the tragic thing is I really like Nokia hardware buttons. Granted, the whole phone arena was moving away from a whole lot of buttons, but I liked the way they at least had:
-pick up (green phone icon)
-hang up (red phone icon)
-menu key (in the center)
plus maybe a camera/shutter key on the side.

Even Nokia S40 phones used to have the ability to either silence the ring (keeps ringing), or hit the red phone button, and it might tell the caller "dialled phone is busy", depending on the network.

The iPhone doesn't do that.

Re:Hardware buttons (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636864)

Actually the iPhone does both of those. Please check your facts.

Re:Hardware buttons (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 3 years ago | (#35637098)

It doesn't have dedicated hardware buttons that user can press while the phone (for example) sits in the pocket. Read his statement again.

Re:Hardware buttons (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 3 years ago | (#35636948)

I like Nokia's hardware, though as my current phone is N93 I may be out of date and the new phones might suck.

I do not know what problem people are having with the Symbian UI, but it is OK for me, maybe because I used Psion Series 5 (it has EPOC OS, the OS that later became Symbian) extensively and the UI is a bit similar.

Anyway, I guess I'll see what non-WP7 phones (preferably with a keypad) Nokia offers in 2011-2012 and buy a new one or just choose to stay with my N93 (it is 5 years old now and still works great).

Cross your fingers.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636666)

It seems that Nokia is burning all bridges and will bet the company on Windows Phone 7. I hope they don't fail as they have really nice hardware.

The writing is on the wall (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636672)

This will be Nokias undoing!!

What are they thinking?!??!

Every one who ever partnered with Microsoft has been royally screwed by them, EVERY one

Putting all your eggs in Microsofts basket is the kiss of death.

RIP Nokia, WP7 will be your epitah!

Nokia = FINITO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636708)

evil.add("Nokia");

Nokia? Never heard of it.

Bye Bye Nokia... (1)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | about 3 years ago | (#35636712)

As a long time Nokia buyer I'm sad to see, that its time to look for greener pastures. I currently own a Symbian smartphone... It sucks next to all the shiny androids and iphones and is barely better than my first smartphone, the windows mobile ipaq PDA(not buying windows again no matter how much the windows phone 7 has evolved). However, I have hard time imagining my parents ever learning to use a different device/system on their old school call only phones...

Re:Bye Bye Nokia... (1)

lennier1 (264730) | about 3 years ago | (#35636832)

Been there, done that, didn't like the t-shirt.

With one exception (Alcatel One Touch Com, which had some features even most modern smartphones lack) I've been using Nokia phones since the good old 2110 in the mid-90's. After they abandoned the Series 90 platform, the mobile TV modules and of course after the "Maemo vs. Moblin" clusterfuck I was already thoroughly disappointed by Nokia.
But now that they've turned into a puppet company for Microsoft, adopting the worst big-name phone OS currently on the market in the process, I'll be looking elsewhere as well.

Story misleading and sensationalist (5, Informative)

ccr (168366) | about 3 years ago | (#35636834)

TFA and the original source (press release from Forum Nokia, http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/03/25/open-letter-to-developer-community [nokia.com] ) reveal that:

Over the past weeks we have been evaluating our Symbian roadmap and now feel confident we will have a strong portfolio of new products during our transition period - i.e. 2011 and 2012.

And further ..

Iâ(TM)ve been asked many times how long we will support Symbian and Iâ(TM)m sure for many of you it feels we have been avoiding the question. The truth is, it is very difficult to provide a single answer. We hope to bring devices based on Windows Phone to market as quickly as possible, but Windows Phone will not have all language and all localization capabilities from day one. [...] That is why we cannot give you the date when Symbian will no longer be supported.

Finally it is stated:

What I can promise you is that we will not just abandon Symbian users or developers. As a very minimum, we have a legal obligation, varying in length between countries, to support users for a period of time after the last product has been sold.

So there's nothing saying that Nokia will suddenly stop supporting Symbian in 2012. It'll just fade out gradually, and even they don't admit knowing when it will fade out completely.

Re:Story misleading and sensationalist (2)

TheSunborn (68004) | about 3 years ago | (#35636962)

What story did you read?

The one I read said "[Nokia] will create no more Symbian phones after 2012 ". The slashdot story don't say anything about stopping support for existing phones, and nothing about them stopping existing phones either.

Even the headline "No More Symbian Phones After 2012" got it almost right, even thou you might say that they need the word "new" to clarify.

Someone is WRONG on the internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636846)

Where does TFA say that Noika will not create Symbian devices after 2012?

From the letter

For that reason certain markets will play a more significant role in selling the 150 million Symbian devices than others and we will be selling devices long after Windows Phone devices from Nokia have already started to appear in other markets. That is why we cannot give you the date when Symbian will no longer be supported.

But please, don't let the MS and Nokia bashing stop.

Maybe there is still a hope... (1)

singlerLT (2028008) | about 3 years ago | (#35636858)

I am personally waiting for MeeGo phone which I hope will be released, and if it will be at least as good as N900 I am voting with my wallet for it, just to show that there is someone who needs it. Also Nokia's decision to create MeeGo developer edition for N900 ups my spirit as well.

Nokia frees Symbian code, three or four overjoyed (1)

David Gerard (12369) | about 3 years ago | (#35636896)

HEY HEY 16K, Need To Know, Thursday (Big K) — Nokia, through the Symbian Foundation, has made the code for the Symbian smartphone OS open source, putting several aging geeks in raptures of delight [newstechnica.com].

"The Symbian OS will delight those of us who fondly remember EPOC on the Psion NetBook," said Larry Berkin, Symbian's head of global alliances. "God, that was an OS. Best PDA ever. Finest of British engineering. Sixteen whole kilobytes! You could run a truck over them. I bet an open source Symbian OS will let you run a truck over your phone."

The Foundation hopes to pit Symbian against Windows Mobile. "There's no way it can compete against our superior features, like WAP browsing, infrared connect to your laptop and, of course, the serial port." It also hopes to set the stage for a march on the USA. "The Americans will fall before our superior engineering! Psion worked on the ZX81, you know."

There are currently about 330 million Symbian devices in the world, at least fifteen of whose owners can actually use the web browser without wanting to throw the damned thing through a window and just get an iPhone. "Just think," said Berkin, "now anyone can improve their phone! Well, they could if Nokia made phones the user could flash. But still!"

The Foundation issued a press release about how the open-sourcing of Symbian was welcomed by free software advocates and other aging hippies. "Developers everywhere will want to study Symbian," said Eben Moglen, "to hack on it, and to write applications for it. This could be even bigger than the Amiga."

The fact that it sold more was irrelevant (1)

sirwired (27582) | about 3 years ago | (#35636916)

Gee, it's very nice that Symbian sold more than iOS or Android. If it wasn't making Nokia any money, or if Nokia couldn't eke out much of a profit on the phones that had it, the fact that they sold tons of phones with it loaded is not really relevant. We don't call Microsoft a titan of the PC Games industry because every computer comes with the hugely popular Solitaire and Minesweeper, and Nokia doesn't consider Symbian a success just because a lot of phones happen to have it loaded.

What the heck? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35636920)

They sux big time.

Platform not relevant, but what you do with it.. (2)

cheros (223479) | about 3 years ago | (#35636952)

Let's face it, it doesn't matter one blind bit for Fred End User which platform the phone runs. What matters is what can be done with it.

Apple made exceptionally good use of its understanding of design to create a phone that was easy to use in many aspects (but not all). RIM understood early on that business people need calendar, email and contacts on the go and focused on that, Google is betting on people still not understanding how they pay for "free" with their privacy to push their own platform Android (cleverly using the "open" cvoncept to drag the technical people along). Nokia has, well, a toolkit but no focus, no killer app.

Personally, I see the move towards Microsoft as beyond exceptionally bad - Nokia has sold its soul to a partner who is only interested in using it. Instead, Nokia should first develop a focus, and then gather the tools to do it. This could still be Symbian - if that really went Open Source and an effort was made to make it provably secure it could still support a recovery, provided some people start to think outside the box AND ARE ALLOWED TO PROGRESS (I know what management saturation looks like - it means you have a lot of high earners who spend their day playing politics, whereas the creative people get so bored they walk, making the company even more boring and prone to die).

But hey, if they want to commit commercial suicide by crawling in bed with MS, so be it. It's a shame - I liked Nokia.

Hava Tahmini (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35637104)

http://www.onlinedevletim.com/hava-tahmini.html in this site you can find everything about your asking.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...