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229 comments

Java (-1, Troll)

devozx (2028268) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641432)

I think Java should just be let go. It's a terrible language coupled with slow runtime libraries that are constantly exploited by drive-by exploits. Java on mobiles is also horrible.. It's just so wrong on so many levels. On the other hand I've noticed C# to be what Java was supposed to be and a lot more. It's an awesome language with easy syntax, it has Visual Studio as development tool (who doesn't love VS?) and a ton of libraries and API support. It also has XNA and DirectX. Anyone who has tried developing for Windows Phone 7 loves it. It's great and so easy. Granted, Linux guys are lagging on the Linux runtime libraries, but that isn't Microsofts fault. C# is the way to go.

Re:Java (1, Funny)

tibbetts (7769) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641452)

I would have expected Bill Gates to have a much, much lower Slashdot number.

Re:Java (0)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641596)

I would have expected Bill Gates to have a much, much lower Slashdot number.

And I would have expected him to have posted more than one comment.

Re:Java (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641648)

I generally post as AC.

Re:Java (4, Funny)

trcooper (18794) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641880)

I do. And frankly, I prefer eclipse to Visual Studio.

Re:Java (1)

tibbetts (7769) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643176)

Well-played, sir.

Re:Java (0)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641500)

I think that Java and C# plays in the same division except that Java is a cleaner language than C# which suffers from infections from VB.

But it would be a lot more interesting to see what Gosling comes up with this time.

Re:Java (2)

spiffmastercow (1001386) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641630)

I think that Java and C# plays in the same division except that Java is a cleaner language than C# which suffers from infections from VB.

But it would be a lot more interesting to see what Gosling comes up with this time.

Really? I see more influence from Python than VB.

Re:Java (1)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642504)

Here is what I hate about C#, and I think it is JavaScript infection (they're doing the same to VB, which is pretty much now C# without braces): implicit and anonymous types. That shit is gross. The last thing I want is to come across this in code

var c = SomeFunction();

function SomeFunction() {
var result;
some code
return result
}

Wow.... really guys? And then you have named parameters in case you want to just... not specify parameters in the order they were declared? What stupid shit. This is unreadable, language weakening syntax sugar. Who is this for? Anytime somebody uses implicit typing in C# or VB I want to stab them. In the dickhole. With a bigger dick.

I see the appeal of writing JSON-style types, but its just lazy to not quickly make a struct somewhere. Its a pain in the ass to try to refactor.

Re:Java (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642838)

Actually, anonymous blocks and first-class functions are very powerful and far predate Javascript (by decades). You might want to look into a language called "Lisp" sometime.

Re:Java (1)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643060)

Nobody said anything about first class functions, buddy. See my () there? And JavaScript doesn't have to create it to be exerting its influence on C#. C# certainly isn't doing anything because of Lisp, but it is taking on syntax more familiar to javascript writers, because in the web domain jQuery is making it a lot easier to do in the UI what used to be done in the back end.

Re:Java (3, Insightful)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643386)

You know, if you're interested in the origins and influence of C# ... you might want to check out it's (main) inventor : Anders Hejlsberg.

Interview on the origin of C# [artima.com] (the short version : Turbo Pascal => Borland Pascal => Delphi (Object pascal). If you've used these different languages, this is beyond obvious : C# is a more concise version of Delphi's Object Pascal)

Frankly, more people should try C#, it's a much more ... complete ... language than java when it comes to language features. It's got all the things java misses, from function references, delegates (which are basically function pointers to class member functions, dear God I can't tell you how much java needs these), full generics (as opposed to type-erasure generics), properties (full getter/setter functionality without the pain), a full VM ... This means that any java program is trivially translated to C#, and can easily be improved from there. The reverse ... oh dear God you don't want to try converting a non-trivial C# program to java.

But as libraries go, C# is a disaster ... Microsoft really should start over from scratch and build a big coherent library (imnsho).

And of course, the things they both do very, very, very well : tool support. While java's (whether you're using eclipse or netbeans or even intellij) is a bit clunky, it's at least there : refactorings, code completion, ... C# has this too, even better than eclipse in my opinion, both on linux and on windows. But, even if C# edges out Java in this regard, both are very usable (as opposed to, say, scala's tool support. Want to learn functional programming ? F# is seriously more usable just because the tools are better)

What's wrong with type-erasure generics ? This would seem an obvious feature for a map class, if an instance doesn't exist yet, create it using the default constructor :

class Map<K, T> {
    public T get(K key) {
        if (contains(key)) return _get(key) else return new T();
    }
}

Can't do it in java ... at all ... never ... Ever wished it would just work like that ? I know I did on many occasions.

Of course one of the better features of java is it's simplicity. It's brain-dead simple, in a way that Visual Basic is, but cleaner. Idiots can easily learn java programming, and fully mastering the language doesn't take all that much more.

Personally I wish google would fork java. Build a JVM (or just a Java++ compiler), and add a lot of features. Decent generics. Function pointers (including, *please* delegates). Properties. Tuples. But keep it some sort of compromise. More extensive than java, not quite as ridiculously complex as scala. Please : no stomping functional bits through everyone's throat, just a real extension to java.

Re:Java (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642870)

Actually, in JavaScript it would be:

var c = SomeFunction; // no paranthesis

function SomeFunction() { ...
}

And you can think of it like easy pointers in C. Appending the () would execute the method, which would be fine if you were returning the name of another function. Example:

function gimme() {
    function someFunc() { ... }
    return someFunc;
}
gimme()(); // would actually run someFunc

Contrived as that is, there is a usefulness to it that you'd not see immediately if you were only formally trained in OO programming.

Re:Java (1)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643034)

Um... not to be too hard on you, but I think its really funny you corrected an "error" then went on to explain why the correction is useful, instead of accepting what I wrote as what I wanted to write. All of the text I wrote had to do with implicit and anonymous types, not first class functions. I'm talking about it being a pain in the ass to know what types you are working with when nobody declares them explicitly. I understand functions as objects and have no problem with them. Of course they're very useful. Anonymous types, implicit types. These are the things I think are bullshit, and these are the things that make C# work a little more like JavaScript. You see a lot of anonymous types in the results of web service calls for example because you can just write new { .name = "Fred", .underwear = false }; similar to JSON. However when you go to refactor that somewhere, or want to call that function from somewhere else instead of the webservice, you are dealing with an anonymous type as an object (like the generic object type). Now of course JavaScript didn't invent implicit typing or anonymous types, but I think that is why C# is going that way, as the GUI begins overtaking large portions of the server side's functionality in web development.

WTF does this have to do with Javascript? (4, Interesting)

Estanislao Martnez (203477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643354)

Here is what I hate about C#, and I think it is JavaScript infection (they're doing the same to VB, which is pretty much now C# without braces): implicit and anonymous types. That shit is gross.

Ok, so I went and looked up implicit types in .NET [microsoft.com] , and it turns out that they're nothing like Javascript. Javascript is a dynamically typed language; .NET languages are statically typed, but the compiler can infer the correct type of the variables.

I also went and looked up anonymous types [microsoft.com] , and they clearly seem to help in writing database-oriented applications. Object-oriented code that's written to use an object-relation mapper very often suffers from the defect that it has to pull all of the columns of a table to construct the objects, even when the caller may only need a subset of those columns. By writing the clients so that their type specifies only the table attributes that they actually need, that allows for performance optimizations.

The .NET implementation doesn't look like it goes all the way in this regard, but hey, they're trying—something that can't be said for any other mainstream language with their crappy "SQL is just strings and prepared statements" nonmodel.

So again, WTF does any of this have to do with Javascript?

Re:Java (1)

firewrought (36952) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642728)

Java is a cleaner language than C# which suffers from infections from VB

Java was clean to a fault though... it so steadfastly refused basic language innovations that the ecosystem moved to this weird hybrid world where every framework has stuff you've got to do from both the XML side and the Java side. Now C# has passed it by and Java's playing a very sloppy game of catch-up. It may yet come out on top because it won a huge installed based at a critical moment in internet history (and C# is starting to sniff to much XML too), but I can't say it's a joy to program in yet...

Re:Java (4, Insightful)

Glock27 (446276) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641538)

Java is a fine language that not only is widely used in a lot of different settings (like, er, Android), but which clearly inspired C#. Without Java C# wouldn't exist, nor would its runtime library so closely mimic Java's.

The other thing to be admired about Java is it brought us the JVM, which hosts fine languages such as Scala and Gosu. Because of the widespread support Java enjoys, the JVM implementations have explored groundbreaking improvements in garbage collection performance, multithreading, IPC techniques and so on.

C#, on the other hand, is directly tied to Windows and will thus continue its descent into irrelevance. Perhaps Mono will start to get traction at some point, but many are wary of possible patent issues.

Re:Java (1)

Laz10 (708792) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641794)

I hope that google will pick up Scala soon as a first level language at google.
Scala is just so damn cool and useful.

Re:Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642230)

Scala is interesting but it's far too easy to create "clever" code in it. I have written stuff that I couldn't easily decipher just a few days later. I consider it worse than even Perl in this respect. It's orders of magnitude worse when sharing code with other programmers.

If you discipline yourself to eliminate the cleverness then you end up with something not unlike any other normal compiled programming language (ie. there is no point in using Scala).

I do like some of the ideas in Scala but the language needs more robustness in terms of code maintainability. Lisp suffers from the same problem. It is possible to be too flexible and support too many programming paradigms at once.

Re:Java (1, Informative)

diskofish (1037768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641860)

C# is an open standard [ecma-international.org] which anyone is free to use. A number of the libraries in Mono are also based on open standards. .NET MVC is MS-PL.

I don't know right now exactly what tech Microsoft has patented, but it's not in their best interest right now to destroy Mono. MVC + Mono + Linux is really the best option for enterprise web right now in my opinion. JSP never really was all it was cracked up to be. MVC ain't perfect, but it's usable.

Re:Java (1, Flamebait)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642126)

I don't know right now exactly what tech Microsoft has patented, but it's not in their best interest right now to destroy Mono.

Yeah, not right now. It's truly best for them to wait until their competitor is using it, then strike out with the patents. ;)

Bullshit Moderation (1, Troll)

causality (777677) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642698)

I don't know right now exactly what tech Microsoft has patented, but it's not in their best interest right now to destroy Mono.

Yeah, not right now. It's truly best for them to wait until their competitor is using it, then strike out with the patents. ;)

That's amusing that this is modded down to Flamebait. The truth isn't flamebait even if you are unable to handle it like a mature adult.

Judging from all of the shillish posts in this discussion and related previous discussions, it's reasonable to wonder if these mods which are idiotic, absurd, yet serve the purpose of shills are coming from various sockpuppet accounts. If so, the shills are not nearly as smooth and unnoticable as they'd like to think. In fact they're amazingly amatuerish and their actions reflect a certain desperation to please their masters.

Give it up, already. Few corporations have so soundly earned a bad reputation as Microsoft has done. Hiring a bunch of cowardly liars who treat us like we're stupid only makes them look worse.

Re:Bullshit Moderation (2)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642950)

Yeah, I pointed out some alternate accounts to the OP of this thread and I think it upset the machine so they need to bury me ASAP:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2057736&cid=35642308 [slashdot.org]

It's not like it wasn't obvious.

Re:Java (5, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642312)

.NET MVC is MS-PL.

And MS-PL is not compatible with the GPL. If Microsoft really wanted to join hands with the Open Source community they wouldn't have deliberately created a license that is incompatible with the way the vast, vast majority of Open Source projects are licensed. I ignore their words. When I listen to their actions, the message is that they want to make a token gesture of openness that has severely limited practical use while discouraging community forks, all of which serves to make it possible for them to regain complete control if they later change their mind.

It's amazing how effective token gestures like this are, how impressed by them people can be. Really it's business as usual: if you want to actually benefit from the source they have provided you either do it Microsoft's way or you don't get to do it at all. Source that an Open Source developer can't use in their existing GPL projects may as well be closed source. Nowhere in here do you find any sort of community spirit, a cherishing of "free as in speech", an appreciation of compatibility, or a willingness to deal with the many Open Source developers as equals. It's either the Microsoft Way or the highway and that's why .Net is something I can easily live without, however convenient it may be.

I don't know right now exactly what tech Microsoft has patented, but it's not in their best interest right now to destroy Mono.

No, they usually wait until it becomes much more widespread and ubiquitous before they do that. They're too smart to stop playing nice this early on. A wolf in sheep's clothing doesn't reveal his fangs until he's well within the flock of sheep. They use underhanded techniques like this again and again because they work, because so many fools still don't see it coming after so many examples. Anyone who doesn't understand that this is the way Microsoft operates is either ignorant about their history and the way it repeats itself, a marketer/shill, or just plain naive.

Re:Java (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642654)

If the GPL crowd wanted to join hands with the Open Source Community they would have made their license compatible with the Mit License
which is free as in free and does not try to shove it down our throats like the brain washed/dead cult called GPL.

Re:Java (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642888)

+1

Re:Java (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642978)

If the GPL crowd wanted to join hands with the Open Source Community they would have made their license compatible with the Mit License
which is free as in free and does not try to shove it down our throats like the brain washed/dead cult called GPL.

This is a classic troll that gets rehashed from time to time. That's because those who are willing to value what the GPL does (i.e. the overwhelming majority of all Open Source developers and users) already do so. Those who do not like the GPL have a different set of needs and values and cannot be convinced unless those needs and values change. Of course you knew that, and were counting on the irreconcilability of the positions to troll the more reactive types.

I for one appreciate what the GPL does. Really the only people who would have a solid reason to dislike the GPL are those with a strong desire to use someone else's work without ever having to contribute anything in return. I don't have that desire and I reject the entitlement mentality that would cause it. Those developers who want you to be able to do that with their hard work can always use a BSD-style license. Those who don't want you to be able to do that never owed you anything in the first place and their wishes should be respected.

I do not believe it's a concidence that Open Source as a movement was never anything the average user might have heard of until the GPL. Yes, the BSD license and those like it have been around for much longer, but for a long time they were something with which only geeks would be familiar. Nor do I think it's a coincidence that the most famous and widely-used Open Source software, such as Firefox, Linux, etc. are all GPL licensed.

Re:Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35643318)

Is because the BSD crowd puts all the energy into code that actually works rather than zealotry.
Famous and widely used does not equate to better, if it does, then by your logic windows is far superior.

Re:Java (0, Flamebait)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641884)

Insightful, except for the idea that anything from Microsoft will obviously descend into irrelevance. This is a company that took on government anti-trust assaults less than ten years ago and is still going today. Their mobile platform is way behind iOS and Android, and the jury is still out on the cloud platforms, but think about IE9, Windows, Xbox, and Office. C# has integration possibilities that Java just can't seem to match. JavaFX was a giant bomb, while MS Silverlight is gaining ground. That brings me to Mono. M$ has an interest in growing the platform by any means necessary to try and take on Flash, HTML5, and various mobile platforms. I would develop a product with Mono without worrying about patent issues.

The Oracle Confirms it: Java is Dead (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642086)

Isn't Google getting sued by Oracle, the owner of Java for a re-implementation.

What Google's getting sued for is specifically legal and encouraged with C#.

However much people (sometimes rightly) hate Microsoft, it should be clear by now that Java is not free, and is becoming less free by the day.

C# is the open standards language of the future. Java is an obsolete language of a bygone era.

Re:Java (1)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643006)

the JVM implementations have explored groundbreaking improvements in garbage collection performance, multithreading, IPC techniques and so on.

Okay, I'll give you gc, but multi-threading and IPC? I do Java and I'm completely unaware of anything they innovated here.

Really, Java's claim to fame is hot JITing and GC'ing. Outside of those, I'm not aware of anything Java innovated.

Re:Java (-1, Offtopic)

hsmith (818216) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641646)

MS's favorite astroturfer strikes again

Re:Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641932)

Granted, Linux guys are lagging on the Linux runtime libraries, but that isn't Microsofts fault.

So it wasn't Microsoft's decision to develop .NET for Windows only with no effort to make it cross-platform, leaving the development of Mono to third parties?

Intriguing. Your notions of cause and effect are quite odd. So tell me, if not Microsoft then who could have decided from the get-go to make .NET runtimes a cross-platform library?

I guess you'll just ignore this question, pretend that you never read it. That's the fashionable thing to do when someone raises a point for which you really don't have a good answer other than admitting you were mistaken. Isn't it, you cowards?

Re:Java (1, Troll)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642308)

Of course he'll ignore it. It's a common troll lately posting only positive things on Microsoft articles and negative things on anything Google. He's resorted to creating new accounts and posting first post on these articles and dumping the account afterward:

Here are some of the common accounts... I know there are more than just this though:
http://slashdot.org/~devxo [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/~deviok [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/~devozx [slashdot.org]

Re:Java (3, Interesting)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641974)

Java paved the way for C#. I prefer C# as well, but you must remember that one of the reasons the language is so good is because it was able to build on top of what Java already had done, and in many cases, learn from its mistakes. I'm hoping that Gosling's new job will yield us a new language, especially in light of Oracle's recent assholery with Android.

lulz (1)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642112)

I love this guy. I'm about as pro-MS as they come, but even he's making me squirmish a bit. It's like listening to twitters' evil clone (if anyone remembers him).

Re:lulz (2)

abigor (540274) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642864)

Man, I miss twitter. That guy was awesome.

Heh (4, Funny)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641466)

"Some months after leaving Oracle in a huff, father of Java James Gosling has joined Google. It's not clear what his job responsibilities will be there..".

Maybe Google thought things were just moving too quickly.

Re:Heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641634)

he's also going to ensure that for every app you need a specific version of andriod - you'll never be able to get two apps you want going on the same version.

Re:Heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642330)

he's also going to ensure that for every app you need a specific version of andriod - you'll never be able to get two apps you want going on the same version.

siegler - get lost

Re:Heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642812)

so you'll have OSGi bundles for android then?

Really? (3, Informative)

diskofish (1037768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641548)

Gosling is pretty detached from reality and he says a lot of crazy stuff. I can see why he left Oracle (or was forced out). Remember what he said about C#? C# is a very sucessful language and in some areas, more sucessful than Java. Gosling on C#:

We were panicked about C# a while ago. And we've gotten somewhat more relaxed about it. It's certainly something to be concerned about, given the amount of resources Microsoft can bring to bear. But I've had conversations with developers. It has not been that big an issue with developers. It's actually been much more a public relations issue than a reality issue. Read more: http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082-817522.html#ixzz1HumJH5sb [cnet.com]

Re:Really? (1)

Ironpoint (463916) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641882)

>I can see why he left Oracle (or was forced out).

I think he made it clear that Oracle significantly cut his salary. Most employees would leave for greener pastures in that situation.

Re:Really? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642228)

I think he made it clear that Oracle significantly cut his salary. Most employees would leave for greener pastures in that situation.

James Gosling also said that his position was lower in the company (in spite of holding the same job title), that Oracle micromanages everyone and doesn't allow them to make any important decisions, and that they made him into little more than a cheerleader for Java. So by his account, things sucked all the way around.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641970)

The date of that interview was January, 2002. At that time C# wasn't really anything, certainly not what it is today. It's a reasonable position to take in early 2002.

On the other hand, how much has MSFT spent on R&D since then to make C# what it is today? Time and money makes a difference, something which your excerpt accounts for.

Re:Really? (4, Informative)

Rary (566291) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641976)

That article is dated in early 2002. Most developers I know were quite unsure of C# and .NET in general in 2002. The consulting company I work for planned to launch an internal C# project in late 2002. We use internal projects as a training opportunity, so technology is chosen based on what skills would be most beneficial for our consultants to have experience with. Just before the project started, management decided to switch to Java because it was perceived to be a more valuable skill. In the years that have passed since then, .NET has caught up, so today we do about as much .NET work as Java work. But back then, it was still the new kid on the block, and most weren't sure what to think of it.

Re:Really? (0)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642266)

That's detached from reality? Using anything which Microsoft has a blessing or protection of is always a risk. That hasn't changed from 2002 or now, for that matter.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642400)

That's not what he was talking about. He was talking about perceived security and stability issues, which were a direct result of supporting C and C++. So really, it was an indictment of all three. So, now that we're about a decade past worrying about that...

Re:Really? (4, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642738)

Even today, I wouldn't say C# is more successful than Java in many areas--unless the company is a strong Windows shop. Most companies I've worked for won't use it for the simple reason that their production servers are Linux or Unix. That means no .NET. And yes they know about Mono. Since it isn't officially sanctioned by MS, it's not an option.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35643262)

And that C# back then was really a (cough: reimagined) port of Java 1.1 spec in MS's vision (wasn't there a lawsuit?)

The key to marketing (0)

commodore6502 (1981532) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641618)

To be a good marketer, you have to believe with 100% conviction what you are saying, at the time you say it. Then the next day or week or month, you believe 100% what you are saying, even if that's the exact opposite of what you said before.

I'm sure this guy will happily say "Google Android sucks" on his last job, and then say, "Google Android rocks" in the present, without any problem whatsoever.

Gosling's child instances, thus-- (2)

CrowdedBrainzzzsand9 (2000224) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641620)

I imagine that in supervising his children at Google, Mr. Gossling will orient them thusly: class employee{ private int assigntask=0; private int punish=0; private int reward=0; private int delete=0; ...etc.... }

Nighthacks is down (1)

snookiex (1814614) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641654)

I guess working at Google was the only thing missing in Gosling's CV. It's a great "acquisition", I wish the best for him, another slap in the face for Oracle.

It will be nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641746)

Google hires every smart person in the world and does shit with them, preventing any form of advance in computing. True story.

Re:It will be nothing (1)

LordStormes (1749242) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641960)

They certainly don't have them out driving the Street View cars - I almost got flattened by one walking back from lunch today. Stay tuned for pics of my ass splattered across the asphalt geocoded to Largo, FL.

Re:It will be nothing (2)

Surt (22457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642188)

Well. They do make piles of money with them. Surely putting some of our best and brightest minds to work selling web advertising can't be a mistake, after all, this is what the free market decided to do with all that talent.

Still in the News? (5, Funny)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641770)

Why is this guy still in the news?
I get it - he's a douche, and his wife Kate is an overbearing bitch, and all they both care about is making money (over $1,000,000 per episode) off of their litter.
Who cares if their kids get psychologically ruined? I mean, it's not like they had a chance to become productive, sane members of society with those two as parents anyway.
In a perfect world, they'd be in jail and the kids would be adopted.

But no, now this guy is being given a cushy job at Google, for what? Java?
Please, that's what Amazon Mechanical Turk is for.

Re:Still in the News? (-1, Offtopic)

Pamplona Slowpoke (1130755) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641862)

Where are my mod points when I need them? Please, mod the parent up!

Re:Still in the News? (1)

jginspace (678908) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642056)

Was thinking exactly the same thing. I just spent all mine (first I got since the 'makeover') on some kdawson-related comments. At least this deserves an 'interesting' right?

Re:Still in the News? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641902)

I can't tell if you are trying to make a joke or what. Either fail joke or fail thinking this guy has anything to do with that lame tv show. Either way . . fail.

Re:Still in the News? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35641964)

Does anybody understand what this guy is talking about?
dkr

Re:Still in the News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642028)

Dumbass seems to think that James Gosling is the same person as Jon Gosselin from Jon and Kate plus 8.

Re:Still in the News? (1)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642034)

He's talking about John Gosling, from John and Kate Plus 8

Re:Still in the News? (1)

LordStormes (1749242) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642038)

He thinks this is that "John & Kate + 8" guy. That's "Gosselin", not "Gosling". Idiot.

Re:Still in the News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642710)

Um, whoosh?

Re:Still in the News? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642000)

Finally a voice of reason in this terrifically difficult to understand situation

Check the date! (1)

CarsonChittom (2025388) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641804)

It's worth noting that the interview in which Gosling said Android needed adult supervision was in 2009. I'm not saying his comment isn't still valid (if it was at the time), but nearly two years is a long time with something that changes as rapidly as a) Android, and b) mobile phones generally.

Re:Check the date! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642802)

Yeah, people have short memories. Android didn't really reach the "worth using" stage until version 2.1 was released in early 2010. Android 1.6 was a joke.

Google v. Oracle - Solved (5, Insightful)

LordStormes (1749242) | more than 3 years ago | (#35641934)

Gosling will be able to easily ensure that Google's Android code base is free of anything Oracle's disputing. For the long term, it only makes sense that the creator of Java is now involved in the language's biggest current flagship technology. As a developer with experience in both C# and Java, C# is the spiritual sequel to J++. It was MS' answer to the then-war with Sun over Java on Windows, and a sad effort at that. A language tied directly to a single OS = BAD. As a Java coder, I can get a job developing on desktop PCs, Web applications, smartphones, Blu-Ray players and TVs, or Martian rovers. People get frustrated with Java because it's got some pretty obnoxiously verbose syntax, but it's well-respected for what it is. I find it comical when people flame Java's runtimes, and then love how they can run other languages' code in a JVM environment.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642168)

For the long term, it only makes sense that the creator of Java is now involved in the language's biggest current flagship technology.

I wasn't aware that Google was involved in JavaEE in any way.

Or did you mean "current popular technology?"

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (1, Insightful)

oracleguy01 (1381327) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642464)

As a developer with experience in both C# and Java, C# is the spiritual sequel to J++. It was MS' answer to the then-war with Sun over Java on Windows, and a sad effort at that. A language tied directly to a single OS = BAD. As a Java coder, I can get a job developing on desktop PCs, Web applications, smartphones, Blu-Ray players and TVs, or Martian rovers.

C# is tied to one OS? Huh, I guess no one bothered to tell the guys that make Unity [unity3d.com] that, seeing how their product uses C# and is cross platform.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (5, Insightful)

ags1 (1883204) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642800)

C# is very portable, IF you pick your libraries right, IF you don't use any standard features that are windows centric, IF you don't call any native libraries, IF you want to wait for the advanced feature to get ported to your platforms implementation... etc. You have to do a lot of work to keep from falling into lock in. The thing about Java is, its very hard to make an app not cross platform. You have to do a lot of work to lock yourself into a platform using Java.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642850)

He was clearly referring to J++ there.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642992)

No but the .NET framework is. Without the framework, C# is hard to use as companies will have design many things from scratch. Mono isn't acceptable for some companies given uncertainty in patents and whether MS may intentionally break compatibility or embark upon legal action.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642772)

As a Java coder, I can get a job developing on etc etc etc or Martian rovers.

be sure to have the application begin loading at launch so it will be nearly ready by the time it gets to mars

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (3, Informative)

StormReaver (59959) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642984)

Gosling will be able to easily ensure that Google's Android code base is free of anything Oracle's disputing.

Which changes nothing. Odds are that Android was already carefully screened to be free of Oracle contamination, but Oracle sued anyway. That's just Oracle culture.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (1)

Doomdark (136619) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643100)

I agree in that Gosling's checking of codebase is probably not all that valuable in itself (as he can't really be external objective third-party here), but I think it can have positive effect for credibility of Google's defense. It's not about trying to prevent Oracle from suing, but rather in improving chances of winning, or limiting damages. Gosling is obviously knowledgeable on Java and history, but also about various litigations related to Java.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35643340)

People get frustrated with Java because it's got some pretty obnoxiously verbose syntax,

Syntax is syntax. every language has quirks... even English.

Java is strongly typed with no polymorphism--there are some real rules and structure in this language.--that's why people get frustrated: they either don't know the rules (hence with poorly designed software) or want to bypass everything since there maybe a better [mathematically more efficient] solution.

Re:Google v. Oracle - Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35643370)

C# isn't tied to one operating system.

Look... we can debate the relative merits of one language over another if you like. But C# was designed as a genuine language... not an MS scripting tool.

It was a genuine improvement over Java - and gave the fairly staid and dormant Java a big kick in the arse and spurred its improvement.

The C# core is great - designed and written by some of the hardcore geeks at MS alongside a lot of people poached from Borland's Pascal division. It wasn't in anyway tied to Windows.

It was then handed over to the application monkeys - who layered Windows libraries on top (and made their customary fucking mess).

But the basics of C# is pure OS-agnostic "programmer with a job to do" stuff.

It's great.

My favorite Gosling quote (5, Interesting)

thisisauniqueid (825395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642014)

My favorite Gosling quote: "The worst thing that can happen to a programming language you create is that people start to use it."

Re:My favorite Gosling quote (0)

BeardedChimp (1416531) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642582)

I tried to find the source for this but googling just comes up with your post. Can you cite it anywhere?

Re:My favorite Gosling quote (2)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642706)

That sounds more like something Stoustrup would say.

"it will be interesting to see what develops." (1)

MichaelKristopeit414 (2018850) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642018)

don't you mean "it will be interesting to see what is interpreted by a virtual machine at higher latency and lower throughput"?

adult supervision isn't free.

Gosling (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642088)

I find it suspicious that the old furry face wants to spend time around so many 15-year-olds.

obvious but probably not helpful (1, Interesting)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642094)

Gosling going to Google is an obvious choice. However, I seriously doubt he has anything to contribute other than name recognition. Gosling did a piss poor job on the design and evolution of Java to begin with.

Re:obvious but probably not helpful (1)

DrEasy (559739) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642894)

I think some of the decisions were forced by the marketing division, who were in a hurry to release the language. Marketing was probably right though, given the success of the language, warts be damned.

Re:obvious but probably not helpful (3, Interesting)

Doomdark (136619) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643134)

Gosling did a piss poor job on the design and evolution of Java to begin with.

How so? I thought it was generally consider a pretty decent job, and not just due to actual success of the platform and language. While Java has its quirks like any other programming language, it seems pretty well-rounded and practical. Your statement would suggest much more than that, so what exact things back up your statement?

Google's arsenal of programming language people (5, Informative)

D H NG (779318) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642184)

James Gosling - Java Guido van Rossum - Python Ken Thompson - C, Go Joshua Bloch - Java

Re:Google's arsenal of programming language people (1)

gv250 (897841) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642364)

I swear, I read this as:
  • James Gosling - Java Guido
  • van Rossum - Python
  • Ken Thompson - C,
  • Go Joshua Bloch - Java

I don't even know what a Java Guido is!

Re:Google's arsenal of programming language people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642902)

I don't even know what a Java Guido is!

It's what happens when Snooki or The Situation start coding.

Be afraid. Very afraid.

It's OK to laugh at that. I'm Italian myself.

Re:Google's arsenal of programming language people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35642752)

Rob Pike [wikipedia.org] also works on Go.

Re:Google's arsenal of programming language people (1)

ravyne (858869) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642810)

What? No mention of Rob Pike?

Turn in thy geek card good sir.

Re:Google's arsenal of programming language people (1)

Appolonius of Perge (961983) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643088)

Brian Kernighan (K&R C, AWK) also spends summers working at Google NYC.

Will he have to pass a programming test? (1)

kmdrtako (1971832) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642216)

In order to check in code?

Google now has Gosling (Java) and Guido (Python) (4, Interesting)

monk (1958) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642274)

I like Gosling, he's a good guy and he asks great questions.

I'm hoping this means more focus on AppEngine. It supports a Python or Java API. (I prefer Python) It's a very cool place to build things. I just built a small multi-vendor site for our local makers and crafters and had a blast doing it.

disclaimer: I used to work for Sun in the Java Center.

He also calls Android a Dogs Breakfast (1)

stimpleton (732392) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642276)

Ii gets worse. He finshes a question with "it feels like it's(Android) going to be more of a dog's breakfast.”

He seems an interesting guy, obviously brilliant, but his broad view arrows miss their target by a long way.

For example, in the same interview, he questions the free cost of Android. Its easy to assume the reasons, and this was shored up with the "Castle and moat" scenario put forward a few days back. It should have been obvious to him.

Gosling also says he "hopes not to be pulled into the fray". Google needs to be careful with this back room boy.

Go James Go Lang :-) (1)

Coeurderoy (717228) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642570)

I guess he will write an emacs clone in GoLang :-)

(ok it's a joke, and linked to the fact that although I'm regular emacs user planning to grow a sixt finger "RSN"... I'm not super fan of Java...

Re:Go James Go Lang :-) (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 3 years ago | (#35642726)

I guess he will write an emacs clone in GoLang :-)

I think it's called Eclipse.

Re:Go James Go Lang :-) (0)

Coeurderoy (717228) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643026)

tsss no eclipse is an anti emacs, I see everyday java jockey typing away with eclipse and so happy of all the "help" but unable to remember where their code is, and taking hours to go from one file to an other.... And I would like to hit them on the head with their screen and yell "can't you esc-X shell and grep *.[ch] for XYZ's sake ??? please .... I'm loosing my patience ...

(nb: concidering the MB's used by eclipse and it's modular nature I would suspect that something like this is possible, but why can't the users figure it out ...)

No Emacs "rules" :-) (of course vim is acceptable too because now we do not need to fight amongs ourselves we can sneer at eclipse users :-))

Did they ask him.. (3, Interesting)

BigGerman (541312) | more than 3 years ago | (#35643252)

.. to reverse a String during the interview? ;-) Seriously, Google needs to stop hiring ivory tower theoreticians and get some "normal" devs to clean up their act.
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