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Geohot Battles Back Against Sony

Soulskill posted about 3 years ago | from the hacking-justice dept.

Sony 255

csaw.csaw writes "According to Ars Technica, 'Hotz is slamming Sony's arguments at every turn. Sony claims there is a PSN account that Hotz created? Well, the serial number is wrong and anyone could have made that account. The manuals contained information on how SCEA is located in California? The manuals were never opened.' Groklaw posted the latest court filing (PDF) as well as their own analysis, saying, 'All the over-the-top allegations, in short, that some journalists published last week after reading SCEA's filing are now answered ably, about blickmaniac, the Playstation Network, the California downloads, the serial number, SCEA's jurisdictional arguments, everything. I confess, this is getting exciting.'"

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255 comments

Boycott Sony! (5, Insightful)

mikaelg (2028366) | about 3 years ago | (#35643768)

I dont know why people support Sony. Countless of times they're showed their true colors. The stuff they do to paying customers is absolutely stunning. Both Nintendo's Wii and Microsoft's Xbox 360 do have DRM, but they don't do shit like this. Microsoft only bans the modded user from multiplayer, and rightfully so because he could cheat against other players. Sony is going way over the line.

. If you want to play the same games, just get a XBOX 360 and drop PS3. They have the same games anyway, and 360 is a better console, especially with Kinect.

Re:Boycott Sony! (5, Informative)

Locke2005 (849178) | about 3 years ago | (#35643924)

Sad but true, I've concluded Microsoft is less evil then Sony. In fact, I'm tempted to by an Xbox with included Kinect now that they are $380 at Costco. Nintendo is much less evil than either Sony or Microsoft, but my Wii is looking a little long in the tooth now.

I decided to boycott Sony a few years back with my Sony "Dream Machine" home theater system turned out to be a nightmare -- Sony managed to put out some of the worst quality DVD players at the highest prices.

Re:Boycott Sony! (3, Interesting)

Samalie (1016193) | about 3 years ago | (#35644372)

There's only one case I know of (console to console compare) where Microsoft is still more evil than Sony.

Specifically, it came in with Netflix (at least in Canada)

On the PS3, Netflix is "free" from Sony's standpoint. I have the console, downloaded Netflix, got my Netflix membership, and away I go.

On the X360...I have the console, went to download Netflix, found I couldn't because I'm not a Gold member. SERIOUSLY? I spend money on your console and want to download a free to you app and I can't because you have that gold-only restricted. FUCK YOU! I'm not spending $60 a year to download a free app.

Re:Boycott Sony! (2)

Labcoat Samurai (1517479) | about 3 years ago | (#35644460)

And you can't play multiplayer without a gold subscription either!

Seriously, it kinda sucks, but take it or leave it, right? I mean, they have no obligation to make their device support Netflix at all. You can complain that the service is crappier than Sony's as a result (and you'd be right), but eviler?

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

AndyAndyAndyAndy (967043) | about 3 years ago | (#35644618)

Indeed, Playstation Network is free for online games and Netflix... only very few titles are on their "Plus" membership tier, and even then, you can buy those one-off without signing up for the whole year. And if you do, it's cheaper than Gold membership. For how much they screw over some of their customers, they also take pretty good care of the majority, relatively speaking.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

thatbloke83 (1529851) | about 3 years ago | (#35644608)

Yea that's the reason why we in the UK cannot have the iPlayer on Xbox Live either - Microsoft only want to offer it to Gold members, but due to the way the BBC is funded over here (the TV licence, there are no ads on the Beeb due to this) if people are paying their TV licence they should not then be forced to pay any other costs to then access the service.

Due to this "standoff" between Microsoft and the BBC we're kinda stuck in the middle :(

Re:Boycott Sony! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644614)

There's only one case I know of (console to console compare) where Microsoft is still more evil than Sony.

Specifically, it came in with Netflix (at least in Canada)

On the PS3, Netflix is "free" from Sony's standpoint. I have the console, downloaded Netflix, got my Netflix membership, and away I go.

On the X360...I have the console, went to download Netflix, found I couldn't because I'm not a Gold member. SERIOUSLY? I spend money on your console and want to download a free to you app and I can't because you have that gold-only restricted. FUCK YOU! I'm not spending $60 a year to download a free app.

Hey einstein. If u have it for ps3 then you don't need it for xbox.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644642)

Hey, shithead. Typing out the word "you" isn't so difficult, maybe try it sometime. Also, his post doesn't necessarily imply that he owns a PS3. Or maybe he just wants to watch Netflix in a different room without dragging his PS3 back and forth.

Re:Boycott Sony! (2)

EdIII (1114411) | about 3 years ago | (#35644864)

I feel the same way. I own (well took over) a XBOX360 and have no interest in playing online. Having to spend $60 bucks a year just for fucking Netflix is insulting.

The best solution though, is to purchase a Western Digital Live TV Plus. It's $99 and the Netflix application on it rocks. Much better than the app on the XBOX360. It also has a much better ability to connect up to network shares, media players, etc.

Ohhhh, and it's HDMI 1.3 with an optical out for a nice sound system setup.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

oracleguy01 (1381327) | about 3 years ago | (#35644966)

While I totally agree with you that Microsoft making gold a requirement to use Netflix sucks. If you do still want it, you can get a year of gold membership for 30-35 dollars usually. Just keep an eye out on slickdeals and other websites for sales on the 1 year prepaid cards. Still a real annoyance but at least it isn't as expensive.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 3 years ago | (#35645168)

$35 is more than a third of what the cheapest netflix runs for a year. One would be far better off getting a roku or other netflix player for a $100 and avoiding the reoccurring charge.

Charging money isn't evil... (4, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | about 3 years ago | (#35645028)

Why does charging money for something make a company "evil"?

Evil is when they sue you, install viruses on your PC without asking, make CDs that won't play on PCs, try to lock you in to their products at every turn (eg. memory sticks), use proprietary connectors everywhere, overcharge for replacement batteries, etc. It's all in a days work at SONY.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35645052)

This guy is an idiot, oh, sure he's smart to crack the PS3, and so on, but lacks the street smarts to know that you play with fire you can get burned. Weather he wins or loses it's a moot point, he'll be up to his eyeballs in debt when this is over.

Sony is evil? No fucking way, they provide a service, a network where anyone can play without cheats and hacks equal for everyone. You get satisfaction from the games you bought. The others? Not so much. You can only play with trusted friends if you want a fair game, AND you get to pay for that privilege.

You say that MS is not evil ... how the hell do you think they managed to keep so many for their consoles only? By playing nice?
Kinekt? What the hell is that? Other than the funny videos, I haven't seen any practical uses for it. Have you tried using it for 15 minutes? No? Then I won't bother to ask if you use if to a couple of hours straight each day.

Re:Boycott Sony! (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 3 years ago | (#35644652)

>>>Nintendo is much less evil than either Sony or Microsoft

NOW Nintendo is less evil. They used to be as bad as Sony back in the NES and Super Nintendo days (late 80s and early 90s).

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644692)

But at least they made up for it by creating Super Mario Bros. 3.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644694)

"my Wii is looking a little long"

And you are complaining because.....

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644002)

I decided to skip the PS3 when they first announced it, and Sony was asked about the high price ($600 I think). Their response was something along the lines of "Consumers will pay whatever we tell them to pay", along with more gems like "Next generation gaming doesn't start until we say it starts".

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644090)

I decided to skip the PS3 when I had to void my PS2's warranty by adjusting a cog to fix a misaligned laser inside of it. The rootkit and Lik Sang episodes didn't help matters much.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

dadelbunts (1727498) | about 3 years ago | (#35644522)

I have gone through so many PS2's its not even funny. RROD is nothing compared to sony cog of misaligned laser. And i have never seen a controller wear out faster or as horribly as a PS2 controller.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | about 3 years ago | (#35644904)

Reasons to hate and boycott Sony:

  • Lik Sang
  • Rootkit
  • "MP3" player that only plays ATRAC3
  • Proprietary MiniDisc
  • Proprietary MemoryStick
  • Blu-Ray DRM
  • Disabling PS2 compatibility from the PS3
  • Disabling OtherOS from the PS3
  • Rootkit (worth listing again!)
  • Suing their customers

...and that's not even a complete list, I'm sure!

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 3 years ago | (#35644140)

I dont know why people support Sony.

Because it's impossible not to, unless you use cash and barter. They have their fingers in the entire economy. They get a piece of the action no matter where it is.

Re:Boycott Sony! (2)

clang_jangle (975789) | about 3 years ago | (#35644212)

No. I don't have Sony anything in my life since 2004. Sounds like you're just too lazy to research your purchases, frankly.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 3 years ago | (#35644300)

I am with you, I try and make sure not one red cent of my mine goes to Sony and I am successful most of the time but not always. More then once I have been out with friends and spontaneously decided to see a film, only later to discover Sony Pictures had a hand in it. I have not been willing to get a smart phone just so I can avoid accidentally seeing their movies.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

clang_jangle (975789) | about 3 years ago | (#35644446)

No love of modern movie theatres, nor the unruly crowds one finds there these days. I have no problem with "pirating" content from evil companies, though I rarely do that myself. Surely some small change from my netflix subscription ends up in Sony's pockets. Still, that's a far cry from just throwing your hands up and buying a PS3 or vaio with the rationalization "I can't avoid them!". That's just lame.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

triffid_98 (899609) | about 3 years ago | (#35644528)

No. I don't have Sony anything in my life since 2004. Sounds like you're just too lazy to research your purchases, frankly.

So apparently you don't go to movies, listen to music or watch television either. It's almost absurd how much of our older content is owned by them.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

clang_jangle (975789) | about 3 years ago | (#35644666)

Ah slashdot, always peppered with erroneous supposition...
I do not claim to be ABSOLUTELY UNCONNECTED IN ANY WAY to Sony, so allow me to rephrase: I do not PAY SONY MONEY for anything, except perhaps they get a cut of my netflix subscription. Otherwise no, I do not "go to" movies (how does one "go to" an mpeg? :)). I do listen to music (and I pay for it when I like it enough and it's not on Sony), do not own blueray, PS3, vaio, walkman, headphones, or anything else made by Sony. Reality, not being black and white, allows for many positions between "I bought a vaio -- HAD NO CHOICE!!!!" and "I moved to another planet to get away from Sony".

HTH, HAND, blah blah blah...

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 3 years ago | (#35644954)

You're playing whack-a-mole. Tell you what you can do.. Get everybody to take their money out of the bank, so Sony won't be able to find any to borrow. That's about as sensible as missing out on your Spiderman 5 there, don't you think?

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

the_Bionic_lemming (446569) | about 3 years ago | (#35644938)

So apparently you don't go to movies, listen to music or watch television either. It's almost absurd how much of our older content is owned by them.

I can say I don't. It's been about ten-fifteen years since I stepped into a movie theater, I was an early adopter of cutting the cord - like the other guy said, Netflix is my only vice (and the library), And when it got to the point of hearing only 22 minutes or so out of an hour of things that weren't commercials, I quit the radio too. I still buy cd's - of indy bands. Became a big fan of Patchouli.net.

So while I'm sure that you might not like that lifestyle, some of us are perfectly happy avoiding advertising, saving that hundred a month from paying for cable/satellite, and listening to hours of commercial free music. The icing on the cake is apparently Sony's losing money from that too :)

And then Apple? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644188)

After you are done boycotting Sony, I am sure next in your line would be Apple. After all, most of your arguments apply to them as well.

Re:And then Apple? (1)

Superken7 (893292) | about 3 years ago | (#35644404)

By that reasoning most companies should be boycotted (and maybe you're right, not discussing that)

I am no friend of Apple's controlling policies, but c'mon, apple's actions are nothing compared to what sony does.

Apple:
Shutdown apps in the appstore that I don't like, ban erotism, porn, remove android references, claim to have invented stuff that was already there.

Yes, thats kinda lame, but its hardly evil compared to:
Sony:
SHUTDOWN Liksang, SUE people that are hacking their aibo robots (while you can't even pirate anything!), SUE jailbreakers, put ROOTKITS in music CDs..

Not THAT is being evil. IMHO.

Re:And then Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644928)

What about sending the brute squad to a a reporters house taking all his electronic equipment, because he got his hands on a unreleased product. Nice less evil company.

Re:And then Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644406)

I don't buy any of their crap either.

Re:And then Apple? (1)

RavenLrD20k (311488) | about 3 years ago | (#35645080)

Why wait? I can and do boycott multiple companies at the same time... I'm actually sorry to say that Acer has made it to that list as well. I like my quad core laptop and all, but when asking acer for parts to add a second HDD to it, I just get told that they don't offer replacement parts and expect users to buy a new complete laptop every time something breaks down, and in doing further research, it's near impossible to get them to honor their warranties. I wondered why the thing had such good specs for such a low price, even after working with the thing and doing blender renders on it, I'm still impressed with the price:performance ratio. I just know that when this thing dies, I'm gonna be hard pressed to get any kind of service repair on it.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | about 3 years ago | (#35644328)

"If you want to play the same games, just get a XBOX 360 and drop PS3."

Easier said than done, thanks for the typical useless fanboy advice.

"They have the same games anyway"

Little big planet, which is the reason I have a ps3? Not on 360.

"360 is a better console"

Haha, no, each console has their strong points. To think otherwise clearly shows your fanboyism.

"especially with Kinect"

I barf in your general direction sir.

Re:Boycott Sony! (2)

poetmatt (793785) | about 3 years ago | (#35644366)

All consoles do indeed do shit like this. Why do you think you're still buying games on disc, why do you think the prices are going up? Even with inflation prices should be far far lower by now, by an order of magnitude.

If you want to play the same games, get a PC, which you can actually use for shit other than gaming, without paying a premium on everything that exists. For the price of a PS3 you get an easy 3 years of use as a gaming system, it's incredibly easy to download games for free (a more realistic price), and you can actually use it however you want.

While I understand the console appeal, understand that when you buy a console for $300 you effectively are buying a box. While they have some functionality, it's not even close to the most modest PC stuff.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644664)

it's incredibly easy to download games for free (a more realistic price)

Do you mean it's incredibly easy to find free (as in beer) games, or do you mean it's incredibly easy to find non-free (as in beer) games for free (as in beer) anyway - i.e. 'piracy'?

If the latter.. not much of a fair comparison, is it? Especially since you -can- now easily play copied PS3 games anyway.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

Ruke (857276) | about 3 years ago | (#35644990)

Can you clarify what exactly you mean when you say that game prices should be an order of magnitude lower? There's certainly no historical trend that would indicate this: adjusted for inflation, SNES games retailed for about $80. If you're referring to the fact that there are games available for $5, you should keep in mind that those were developed under a vastly different model than the big-studio, multi-million-dollar-development-cost games that retail for $60 for console. If you simply prefer indie games like Angry Birds, you're certainly entitled to your opinion; however, even you have to admit that the gameplay experience is completely different from that offered by Halo, and that it's unreasonable to demand both for the same price.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35645038)

Can you clarify what exactly you mean when you say that game prices should be an order of magnitude lower?

He means "I am unaware that there is a the difference between 'order of magnitude' and 'a lot'"

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

larien (5608) | about 3 years ago | (#35644416)

Sony are a royal PITA on so many levels. Most people who need to supply removable storage on a mobile device use SD cards (or mini/micro variants thereof) so that you can use them anywhere and buy from a variety of places. Hell, the manufacturers even have someone else doing all the hard graft in making up the specs for it. You'd think it was a given that someone would use the industry standard product for their stuff.

But no. Sony have to come up with their MMC cards, complete incompatible with everything else so you can't share them between devices. And, of course, there's only really one supplier. This was entirely what stopped me getting a Sony Walkman phone.

And then there's UMD - crap design as it's easy to get your fingers on the disc. And, of course, they rendered all the UMD disks unusable on the newer PSPs, although getting rid of it was probably a blessing.

Dropping linux support on the PSP3 was a slap in the face for customers, just because they'd screwed up their design and realised that the bits of code which let people run linux allowed them to hack the box.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

mlts (1038732) | about 3 years ago | (#35644726)

Sony did score a dubious achievement of having a console out for so long before it was cracked.

However, I am almost certain it would have been cracked earlier had they not pulled the Other OS thing out.

I hope Sony learns this lesson... if they have a PS4 with the ability for people to do homebrew stuff on it, accessing the features of the machine (pretty much everything but the DRM stack), it likely would never be cracked. The true jailbreakers/devs can't stand pirates and just breaking a DRM stack so someone can download Madden 2011 from a torrent as opposed from buying the media wouldn't be a high priority on their list.

One can look at some of the tweets of the Apple Dev Team's posts about their contempt for app pirates, and if they could find a way to make sure Installous wouldn't run on a JB-ed iPhone, they likely would.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35645152)

I hope Sony learns this lesson... if they have a PS4 with the ability for people to do homebrew stuff on it, accessing the features of the machine (pretty much everything but the DRM stack), it likely would never be cracked.

They've already learned their lesson, just not the right one. They think the moral of the story is "don't enable homebrew at all".

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644516)

If you want to play the same games, just get a XBOX 360 and drop PS3. They have the same games anyway, and 360 is a better console, especially with Kinect.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/3/25/

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | about 3 years ago | (#35644600)

Is this the same Microsoft that settled with Immersion to give them cash to sue Sony in court over vibrating controllers with the proviso that MS would get paid from any settlement with Sony?

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2007/06/18/microsoft-sues-immersion-over-sony-agreement/ [seattlepi.com]

If you're looking for a non-evil company, Microsoft isn't it.

I do think Sony's lawsuit is pointless and stupid. Microsoft is smarter to avoid all this. But that's not a question of evil/non-evil, it's just wiser or less wise.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644762)

I can tell you why people buy sony. The hardware they make is more reliable. How many people do you know that are on their 3rd 4th xbox? I am on my first ps3 from launch. My 360 after the 2nd one died I gave up on it. They may be better now but I just dont care anymore...

I also have a wii. Played the hell out of it at first now it gathers dust.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644870)

"Microsoft's Xbox 360 do have DRM, but they don't do shit like this."

Look up Matthew Crippen and Lik Sang.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 3 years ago | (#35644878)

Because the PS3 is a finely made piece of hardware is why. It really is badass. And I dont think ANYONE thought Sony would go as far as they have regarding straight up removing advertised and fully supported features. The Rootkit thing , well honestly i dont think Sony knew how bad that design was and it was 3rd party developed. Still culpable, but it easy to see that it jsut got out of hand and wasnt intended or explained to them how bad the damage would be. The Other OS thing they have no shield nor excuse for, no one to pass the buck to. Its a straight up fuck you.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35645058)

"Because the PS3 is a finely made piece of hardware is why. It really is badass."

Five hundred and ninety-nine US dollars. And you attack its weak point... for MASSIVE DAMAGE.

Re:Boycott Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35645106)

Agree, we have now actively trying to avoid Sony.

Re:Boycott Sony! (1)

overlordofmu (1422163) | about 3 years ago | (#35645158)

This is why I support Sony:

I like gaming. The Wii lacks the content I, as a gamer, require. So, that leaves the PC, PS3 or 360 as choices. Two of those choices equate to supporting Microsoft. In summary, I have these three options: not game, support Sony or support Microsoft. I find the moral short-comings of Microsoft several orders of magniture more distasteful than the moral short-comings Sony. And I truly adore some of the exclusive content on the PS3.

I don't know why people support Microsoft.

skip ars technica (5, Insightful)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | about 3 years ago | (#35643788)

skip ars technica and go straight to groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/ [groklaw.net]

Re:skip ars technica (5, Insightful)

SomePgmr (2021234) | about 3 years ago | (#35643986)

In defence of Ars, they almost always add quite a lot to the conversation in the way of context and intelligent explanation. It's not like a PC World write-up just ripping off the source.

Re:skip ars technica (3, Informative)

poetmatt (793785) | about 3 years ago | (#35644422)

Ars almost adds a whole lot of misinformation, and I would not suggest reading Ars if you want actual factual information that is unbiased and/or factual. Microsoft writer makes an op-ed rallying against android? say it ain't so! etc.

Groklaw, on the other hand, actually provides relative analysis and makes sense of the legal shit that would otherwise be skipped as TLDR or just generally not make sense.

Re:skip ars technica (1)

Jeek Elemental (976426) | about 3 years ago | (#35644672)

I used to have a bit of respect for ars, but after the embarrasing paid-for articles regarding mpeg and webm I dont trust or read them anymore.

Re:skip ars technica (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | about 3 years ago | (#35644804)

Ars is all over the map in terms of quality. Ars science writing and engineering overviews are as good as it gets for educated lay audiences. Other stuff is above average, depending on who is doing the writing. Ars gaming content - meh. And the recent "Ask Ars" responses make me wonder about the editorial staff - articles that get basic transfer speeds of popular media wrong and confuse bits and bytes?

I read Ars almost every day but I don't have nearly the amount of respect for most of their non science content as I used to

Won't matter (3, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | about 3 years ago | (#35643814)

Sony is rich and powerful, and has the best lawyers [wikipedia.org] at their disposal. They can even call on Congress and the President to help them out, and rewrite the laws if they have to.

He's just a little guy. At most he might have the backing of the EFF and some donations.

I hate to be so cynical, but so far Sony has won every round in this case. The courts are falling all over themselves giving Sony whatever they've asked for, no matter how outrageous. I'd like to think the little guy can win, but really, how often does that actually happen anymore?

Re:Won't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35643874)

Well, Jimmy Stewart managed to pull it off single-handedly, and he's something of a goofy doofus.

Re:Won't matter (4, Funny)

jd (1658) | about 3 years ago | (#35643952)

Depends on how many ninjas the EFF can call on. A few magic mushrooms in Sony's lawyers' coffee and even the courts would have a hard time being sympathetic.

Re:Won't matter (2)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 3 years ago | (#35644064)

The more attention this battle gets, the better his chances. If it looks like Sony is so sloppy and zealous they'd happily railroad an innocent man, enough press will ensure some damage to their reputation. Plus as these stories continue to grow, and as people continue to see corporations in control of both parties in the US, we can look forward to an ever growing fountain of anger and desire for real change. Of course I am as much of a cynic as you are, so my bet is that all that ever growing rage translates into is more Obama like candidates to soak up the rage and yield minor changes once in office.

Re:Won't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644340)

An innocent man? We don't have the power to say he is innocent. We can't say he is guilty either - although it looks like he might be. But the trial will sort that out. Just because the DMCA is a BAD law doesn't mean people aren't guilty when they violate its provisions. It just means we need to work harder to get the law fixed. But until it is fixed (fat chance there), people who violate it are certainly going to be found guilty. Did GeoHot violate it? The info released in the press so far would seem to indicate that he probably did. We'll have to see when the details about jurisdiction and all (just delay tactics really) get worked out. Eventually some court will have jurisdiction and Sony will go there and present whatever evidence they may have.

Re:Won't matter (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 3 years ago | (#35644940)

A good point. If it turns out he is innocent though and he still loses the trial, then that would be quite the pickle...

Re:Won't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644344)

The more attention this battle gets, the better his chances. If it looks like Sony is so sloppy and zealous they'd happily railroad an innocent man, enough press will ensure some damage to their reputation.

Someone please remind me how many times Sony's reputation has been damaged in, say, the past ten years. Stuff like, say, arrogance, brazen price gouging, rootkits, etc, etc. Then someone tell me if that's affected their bottom line at all.

Once that flagrant display of consumer apathy finally winds its way into your mind (it may take a while, I'll admit, given a couple decades of the jackhammer-like drilling of this information into your head hasn't done it yet), then you'll understand why they just do not care, and why they just do not HAVE to care.

Re:Won't matter (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 3 years ago | (#35644968)

It happens: http://seekingalpha.com/article/19019-sony-s-damaged-reputation-has-its-costs [seekingalpha.com] I agree with you, most consumers are quite apathetic. But that doesn't inure Sony to the fruits of their labors. And the more bad press they get, the more agitators become aware of the situation - the kind of people with the means and motivation to have a positive impact on the roles of corporations in society.

Re:Won't matter (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644178)

... from the wikipedia page:

"successfully represented Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s family in a lawsuit over the CBS network's unauthorized use of the famous "I Have a Dream" speech"

WTF? Isn't that *exactly* what should be public domain?

Re:Won't matter (2)

guruevi (827432) | about 3 years ago | (#35644518)

The King family has been cashing in on the dear doctors name for years now. They don't really care about the plight of the ones they once lead, at most they'll give a political sound bite on these issues now.

Re:Won't matter (2)

elrous0 (869638) | about 3 years ago | (#35644620)

Not only that, but his kids have been suing each other and alleging fraud over all that money since Coretta King's death. The family has become a fractured mess of corruption and sibling bitterness. Just sad.

Re:Won't matter (3, Informative)

jd (1658) | about 3 years ago | (#35644646)

Sure, but copyright has nothing to do with logic. If you have any sound recordings from 1972 or earlier, they're all copyright (in the US). I mean ANY amount earlier. It is an act of piracy to download an MP3 rip from one of Edison's wax cylinders. Those most definitely should also be public domain by now, but they won't be until 2067.

Re:Won't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644774)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.,_Inc._v._CBS,_Inc [wikipedia.org]. If you're arguing that it should be public domain because he was dead, then perhaps you're right. The case was decided in 1999, and he died in 1968. If you're arguing that public speeches should be public domain, then you'll need to justify your claim.

Re:Won't matter (2)

Ruke (857276) | about 3 years ago | (#35645050)

Without a specific legal basis, I would imagine that Mr. King's speech would be public domain because it was a public speech and plays such a large role in our cultural identity.

This certainly isn't a legal argument, and isn't intended to be. However, as a legal layman, it simply seems perverse that such a historically significant appeal to the public isn't in the public domain.

It's an outrage! (1, Offtopic)

oldhack (1037484) | about 3 years ago | (#35643866)

Not one of the sentences in the summary makes any sense to me.

Re:It's an outrage! (1)

kbob88 (951258) | about 3 years ago | (#35644056)

Yeah, thanks for the summary with no explanatory information whatsoever for anyone not familiar with this case already. The Ars article didn't really explain much about it either. Not sure how I missed such a huge news story, maybe I was reading about minor stuff like tsunamis...

But hey, it's /., so the summary has at least met my expectations. ;-)

Give it to Sony in the POOPER. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35643890)

And then twist the white hot barbed wire.

Yeah,. right (1, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | about 3 years ago | (#35644106)

"Your honor, my client couldn't possibly have known that SCEA was located in California, because he is utterly incapable of using Google! I rest my case."

I not clear on how not knowing where a company is headquartered helps GeoHotz's case.

Re:Yeah,. right (4, Informative)

One Louder (595430) | about 3 years ago | (#35644134)

There's no way to know without opening the manually that SCEA even exists. He bought a product manufactured by SCEI, not SCEA. SCEI is based in Japan.

Re:Yeah,. right (1)

dasdrewid (653176) | about 3 years ago | (#35644704)

I still feel like "The manuals contained information on how SCEA is located in California? The manuals were never opened." isn't that different from shouting "NANANANANANANANACANTHEARYOUNANANANANANA" while you have your fingers in your ears, as far as a defense goes...

Don't get me wrong, I hope he wins this. I just don't know that it's quite the "slam" the submitter thinks it is...

Re:Yeah,. right (3, Informative)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 3 years ago | (#35644754)

I still feel like "The manuals contained information on how SCEA is located in California? The manuals were never opened." isn't that different from shouting "NANANANANANANANACANTHEARYOUNANANANANANA" while you have your fingers in your ears, as far as a defense goes...

Don't get me wrong, I hope he wins this. I just don't know that it's quite the "slam" the submitter thinks it is...

Sony claims he would have known where SCEA is located and that he is dealing with SCEA. But that is ONLY mentioned in the manual, nowhere else: not on the PS3 itself, not on the box, not in firmware.. And if he never read the manual there simply is no reason to expect him to have known about SCEA in the first place. Hell, I too own a PS3 and I had never even heard of SCEA before this whole thing started.

That's the whole point: no one can prove in any way or form that he should logically have known of the existence of SCEA, let alone where it is located, and that's why it is such a slam-dunk for defence.

Re:Yeah,. right (4, Insightful)

compro01 (777531) | about 3 years ago | (#35644180)

I not clear on how not knowing where a company is headquartered helps GeoHotz's case.

It matters for arguing that California is an inappropriate venue. The case being in California could be disastrous, as it would be expensive for geohot to appear in court for his defense.

Also, I believe California has some whacky trade secret laws Sony could utilize.

Re:Yeah,. right (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | about 3 years ago | (#35644648)

IADefinitelyNAL, but aren't trade secret protections useless if somebody reverse-engineers your product? That's why they're somewhat the opposite of patents - if you patent something, you disclose how you do it but you legally prevent others from doing it until the patent expires. If it's a trade secret, nobody can look it up - but if somebody figured out the process independently there's no protection. Unless they're going to argue that GeoHot stole the secret without finding it independently...

Re:Yeah,. right (1)

jd (1658) | about 3 years ago | (#35644670)

Do you need "California" and "whacky"? Surely one makes the other redundant in the sentance.

Re: expensive for geohot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644768)

as it would be expensive for geohot to appear in court for his defense.

I don't see why it would be expensive for George Hotz to appear in a Californian court for his defense. Could you explain?

There's travel costs - which I'm sure he can cover through all the donations by now. Remember that he's on vacation in South America right now, surely a much more expensive trip in terms of travel.

Then there's hotel costs - but given his many, many supporters, I'm sure he could find a place in California to crash. If not, he could find a motel or a hostel or whatever and it'd still be pretty cheap.

Then there's missing income from his job - wait.. what is his job? Does he have one?
Regardless, if his physical presence would be required for his job, he'd have problems with that if court sessions were in his home state/county/town just as well.

What else... legal counsel? Well okay, there is that. Perhaps his lawyer doesn't want to co-bunk with him. I suspect his lawyer could refer him to a colleague in California that would take on the case for the same fee, though.

Nah.. your last sentence is the more likely one. The courts in California are a bit more 'on the side of' media business, while also being more knowledgeable about it (similar to a bunch of patent cases being in that one Texas district). So of course the defense lawyer would rather have a different venue, while his opponent would fight to have it held -exactly- there.

Re:Yeah,. right (2)

Jaqenn (996058) | about 3 years ago | (#35644384)

Sony filed their case in California. They want the case tried in California for lots of reasons, probably including that it is close and convenient. Or maybe they know the state's laws better? Or maybe they think that what he did is illegal in California but not elsewhere?

Sony is trying to demonstrate that they had a working relationship with GeoHotz in California, then time went by, then he wronged them, so the case should be tried in California.

GeoHotz wants the case tried in his home state (New Jersey). He probably wants this for lots of reasons, including that it is close and convenient. Or maybe his lawyer knows the state's laws better? Or maybe what he did is illegal in California but not in New Jersey? So he is trying to demonstrate that everything that matters in the case happened in his home state, so it should be tried there. This apparently involves demonstrating that he never had a working relationship with Sony in California.

graphing calculator? (4, Funny)

fish waffle (179067) | about 3 years ago | (#35644114)

Now, after Mr. Hotz's computer hard drives, and a graphing calculator have been impounded

Surely that was inadequate---what if he counted on his fingers?

Re:graphing calculator? (1)

xavierwyvern (2028394) | about 3 years ago | (#35644268)

Now, after Mr. Hotz's computer hard drives, and a graphing calculator have been impounded

Surely that was inadequate---what if he counted on his fingers?

Now Nintendo is going to sue Hotz for having an emulator on his calculator to play The Legend of Zelda....(joking of course)

Re:graphing calculator? (1)

pgn674 (995941) | about 3 years ago | (#35644544)

Apparently, he did have something on the graphing calculator. To quote Mr. Hotz in a declaration to the court in April,

The impounded hard drives and calculator were and are the only storage devices in my possession, custody or control, containing the Code that achieves interoperability between computer programs at the time of the the impoundment order.

Re:graphing calculator? (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 3 years ago | (#35644650)

Don't worry, Sony has most likely already drafted up a proposal for confiscating his fingers too, preferably with something very dull and painful.

Sparticus (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644142)

I'm blickmanic!

Hey Sony! Pack up your bags and leave (1)

csaw.csaw (2028294) | about 3 years ago | (#35644172)

It's so funny that Sony picks a fight that Apple has lost. Throws money at the problem and hopes for the best. 1st - This is 2011. Google/Slashdot helps to get the real news out on big spending idiots who think they can push around the little guy 2nd - Apple seems to be doing just fine. I can empty a clip into a legally purchased iPhone 6 with iOS 14 and Steve Jobs could only say, "Thanks for the business :( " If I buy your *precious* PS3 it's MINE. Not yours Duh! 3rd - Sony rootkit anyone. This company makes great equipment but need a lot of work with handling customer affairs. Stop attacking ppl BIG COMPANIES. Our generation will screw in the end. - dbnr

Re:Hey Sony! Pack up your bags and leave (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644604)

*emptied a magazine

Unless you're using an M1 Garand, in which case I have to ask: Why are you using an M-1 Garand?

Re:Hey Sony! Pack up your bags and leave (4, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | about 3 years ago | (#35644922)

Devil's advocate stand here:

This isn't a fight that Apple lost; this is a fight Apple has not decided to push. If Apple really wanted to fight this, they could:

1: Reword all cellular carrier agreements where they will drop service and blacklist any devices suspected of being jailbroken (downloading stuff from Cydia repos for example.)

2: Encrypt bootloaders, and have the baseband hand the keys to the OS. This is how Motorola does it, and so far, the trouble of cracking Moto's encrypted bootloaders have gotten modders to move elsewhere.

3: Push software down to the iPhones periodically to search for jailbreaks. If devices are JB-ed, all Apple IDs connected with them would be banned. MS does with the XBoxes, Valve does this with VAC, etc.

4: Have the baseband software and processor (IIRC, the radio uses a separate processor than the main OS), act as a TPM. If the running OS isn't signed, put the device in DFU mode until a valid copy of the IPSW is put on.

5: Ask cellular carriers to cough up IP records of anyone who bought programs through Cydia, cross reference the IMEIs, and when it comes for an iOS update, blacklist all IMEIs gathered which are suspected during the SHSH negotation process.

6: Have a firmware eFuse counter that only allows for flashing higher versions (assuming they are not betas).

7: Separate the iPhones into different models, each having different hardware protection, and when rev B is put out, anyone caught using rev A exploits is banned from cellular networked via IMEI, and their Apple IDs are banned.

8: Get with cellular carriers and lease iPhones the way Ma Bell used to lease telephones. This + a EULA would mean that jailbreaking would be against the law because it wouldn't be the owner's device.

How did Sony know this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35644728)

the attorney explained that the system in question was purchased at a GameStop near Hotz' residence... If they had a copy of a GameStop receipt tying that serial number to Hotz, the company would have included it with the rest of the evidence.

How did Sony gain access to GameStop or Hotz' credit card records?

Re:How did Sony know this? (1)

Hatta (162192) | about 3 years ago | (#35645124)

the attorney explained that the system in question was purchased at a GameStop near Hotz' residence... If they had a copy of a GameStop receipt tying that serial number to Hotz, the company would have included it with the rest of the evidence.

How did Sony gain access to GameStop or Hotz' credit card records?

Discovery [wikipedia.org].

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