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Salt Lake City To Launch Mobile Payment System

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the wave-N-pay dept.

Cellphones 60

jitendraharlalka writes "According to The Register: 'Operator consortium Isis has selected Salt Lake City as its flagship deployment to show the rest of the USA what NFC can do for them. The plan will see Salt Lake City's public transport system accepting pay-by-wave from a mobile phone by the middle of next year. Retailers have also been encouraged to adopt Near Field Communications technology at the point of sale, as Salt Lake City strives to become The Place You Can Leave Your Wallet At Home. The Utah Transit Authority already uses proximity payment cards, deployed in 2009, so adding NFC functionality to public transport is a matter of software not hardware.'"

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Multiple Wives, Multiple Payment Schemes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738204)

My only question: Do Mormons consider multi-wife orgies to be good or holy or whatever?

Can I eat out one of my wive while a different wife sucks my dick, and a third wife fucks me in the ass with a strap-on?

If so, I'm taking my Nexus S to Salt Lake City..

Re:Multiple Wives, Multiple Payment Schemes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738344)

Can I eat out one of my wive while a different wife sucks my dick, and a third wife fucks me in the ass with a strap-on?

No. The Book of Mormon states very clearly that wives are meant for serial sex, not parallel. However, there's nothing there against the gardener, the handy man, the delivery guy, and the cable technician to bang the idle wives while you are at it.

Hello, Americans (2)

Khoa (935586) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738252)

Japan's been doing this for quite some time now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeliCa [wikipedia.org]

Buyer beware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738748)

Re:Buyer beware (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739832)

Reverse Engineering a real-world RFID payment system: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4036.en.html [events.ccc.de] Video of the presentation (in English) [fem-net.de]

Note that that the comprised system was "MIFARE Classic", which is an extremely flawed implementation. Other systems are not necessarily such an easy target (and FeliCa is almost certainly better than MIFARE Classic).

Of course, while there are certainly better and more secure ways to implement stored-payment cards, I guess the real lesson is that the entities who choose which system/standard to use are often not very well qualified to do so...

How come (5, Insightful)

Gohtar (1829140) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738264)

I get news about changes in the city where I live from a British news source? Something is wrong with this...

Wow... a train full of marks (1)

queenb**ch (446380) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738392)

So if I write something sufficiently sophisticated, I can bill everyone I walk past for a few cents.... NIIIICE!!!

Re:How come (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738458)

Yeah, burn the British flag [flagburningworld.com]

Re:How come (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738552)

I get news about changes in the city where I live from a British news source? Something is wrong with this...

MI5, m'lord.

Crikey! You just reminded me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739032)

I get news about changes in the city where I live from a British news source? Something is wrong with this...

'allo Mum!

Re:How come (3, Interesting)

BryanL (93656) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739208)

First I have heard of it as well. I suppose John Inglish wasn't making money fast enough so UTA decided to have a payment system so we can deposit money directly into his personal account. But this would explain the 25% rise in fares.

Some background on UTA and Utahs public transportation system for those that live outside of Utah:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700025866/UTA-executive-John-Inglishs-salary-is-top-among-public-transportation-executives.html [deseretnews.com]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51490724-76/2013-base-fare-fares.html.csp [sltrib.com]

Re:How come (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739664)

We live in a global world now. Didn't you get the memo?

Could you explain how, exactly, this is wrong? I'm just curious to know.

PS Slashdot story links are frequently thrice-removed from original sources. Do not mistake the submitter's and editor's laziness and incompetence for anything other than what it is.

Re:How come (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35740850)

And not to mention, who the hell uses public transit here?

Sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738278)

makes it easier for the thieves to get around. Steal a phone and run to the bus and wave the phone on entry.. Shell/Texaco tried that with their stations to just wave a little keychain thing. I never saw that get popular and personally I would never use such a thing. It is just not secure and can be misused by others.

Re:Sure (1)

Altus (1034) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738446)

When fairly unsophisticated thieves steal a debit or credit card the first place they usually go is a gas station and fill up all their friends cars... possibly even offering to fill up other cars for cash. I suspect grocery stores are similarly used. Its an easy way to get a small pile of useful goods out of a credit card before the owner knows its gone, and it doesn't set off alarm bells the way buying something larger would.

Re:Sure (1)

Billhead (842510) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738614)

Do you mean Mobil and their Speedpass?
If I remember correctly they even had one that you can glue onto your window so it activates the pump when you drive up.

I haven't seen a Shell/Texaco station with that but maybe they just weren't in my area.

Death of the Dollar coin, again? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738280)

Public transit made the dollar coin relevant again - take it away and the dollar coin becomes a novelty, again.

I think if something like this payment by wave thing becomes common then we can expect hacks where people are charged without even knowing it, at some point.

Re:Death of the Dollar coin, again? (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738356)

I always thought, it was the vending machines that kept the coins relevant.

Re:Death of the Dollar coin, again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35741116)

Welcome to 2011, where vending machines take paper currency.

Re:Death of the Dollar coin, again? (1)

gt35r (1689628) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738496)

Public transit made the dollar coin relevant again - take it away and the dollar coin becomes a novelty, again.

I think if something like this payment by wave thing becomes common then we can expect hacks where people are charged without even knowing it, at some point.

With all the other ways your cards can get charged with out you knowing or your consent, I think it is just part of the game. All you can really do at this point is exercise personal responsibility and check your card statements a couple times a week for fraudulent charges. The banks and the like aren't concerned about looking out for you at this level. Living in Salt Lake City though, I'm probably going to give this a try, even if it's only for novelty value.

Re:Death of the Dollar coin, again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738622)

Normal UTA bus fare is $2.25 right now; what's convenient about paying with dollar coins?

Cool thanks! (3, Insightful)

trollertron3000 (1940942) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738334)

I for one cannot wait to use your phone to make my purchases.

Re:Cool thanks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738408)

No kidding. Just stand 200 feet away and point a small antenna at the person to steal their wireless code then use it yourself.

Of course if the person you stole from realizes they have extra charges they may flag it to authorities who could then flag the system to alert if anyone tries to use that code.

I'd prefer that the cell phone require I enter a pin number before it activates the wireless chip that allows it to be read. Of course then if my cell phone battery was dead I'd be stuck. That could be handled by some means though.

Re:Cool thanks! (1)

Altus (1034) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738478)

the battery issue is legitimate and I don't see much of a way around it, but I believe most of these systems require the user to approve the transaction before transferring money. I suspect most of them could be configured to allow some charges automatically (under 10 bucks) while others might require approval.

Ideally you could ID the vendor so that you could set it up to always pay public transit fares automatically while even a pack of gum at CVS might require you to hit a button or even enter a PIN.

Interactive, not automatic please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739866)

I'd prefer that the cell phone require I enter a pin number before it activates the wireless chip that allows it to be read.

I'd prefer the phone prompt with the vendor and amount on-screen.
Bonus points if they use PKI to verify the vendor and amount.

Re:Cool thanks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739630)

I for one cannot wait to see you getting raped in prison.

Re:Cool thanks! (1)

Sky Cry (872584) | more than 3 years ago | (#35742264)

NFC is usually deployed for small payments only. If your phone was stolen, someone spending a few dollars on a ticket is going to be the least of your worries. In fact, it might even help police catch the thief.

in Japan (1)

Dr. Tom (23206) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738428)

In Japan, everybody has a portable phone, all the phones have id-chips in them, and everybody already uses their phone to pay for the subway. They've been doing this for years and years, now. The only way we could possibly do any better is if you could use your phone like a Visa card. That would require all POS card readers to recognize the chips in the phones. A huge upgrade we wouldn't have to make if we had been doing it the way the Japanese have been doing it for years now.

Re:in Japan (2)

bluemonq (812827) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738524)

One of the reasons that stuff like Felica succeeded in Japan is that for the longest time it was a cash society (true actually for many Asian nations), and even today you'll find many establishments that are still cash-preferred/-only. The situation would be very different if credit cards had taken root earlier.

Re:in Japan (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738542)

A huge upgrade we wouldn't have to make if we had been doing it the way the Japanese have been doing it for years now.

So, basically you are saying we wouldn't have to upgrade now if we had upgraded a long time ago. Thanks for the insight.

NWO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738548)

But the most important question, will this be online by May 21st [familyradio.com] ?

more ways to track you (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738566)

and for that, I would refuse it.

slippery slope that makes travel less anonymous.

I just don't like this trend. neither do I like it when they *assume* you carry a phone.

(and no, I don't.)

Re:more ways to track you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738610)

But why do you fear they'd abuse this information? Using technology to prop up the power structures is PROGRESS!!!! stop being a luddite :-)

Re:more ways to track you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738824)

Since when was public transportation anonymous?

I seem to notice cameras in every train station and bus I go to.

And having more detailed information on peoples usage habits could actually allow them to make these systems more efficient.

Re:more ways to track you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739088)

They can track sales (which routes/times etc are most popular) without tracking individual's travelling habits.
There's also a position between anonymity and being stalked.

Re:more ways to track you (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739086)

You act like 'they' can't find you now. DO you get a pay check? yes? well they know where you find you.
Have a license? taxes? friends? and /. account? they can find you.

Re:more ways to track you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739498)

And thanks to behavioural analysis applied to databases such as these, as well as knowing where we are now.. they'll know where we'll be tomorrow!

Re:more ways to track you (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | more than 3 years ago | (#35740042)

Geekoid, report immediately for your subcutaneous microchip.

Re:more ways to track you (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739152)

sorry for the dbl post, but to prove a pont I spoent exactly 30 seconds to see what I can find out about you.

You used to work for AT&T
You do snmp
and you are probably Bryan Levin
I could be off base, but If I was tasked be the government to find out more accurate information, it might take me an hour.

Re:more ways to track you (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | more than 3 years ago | (#35740112)

Aww heck, I'll post again too.

To me this isn't about finding out who I am. I personally don't care if you do that.

To me, it isn't even close to a privacy issue, but of the inevitable exploit of the system.

As easily as you "object lesson" TheGratefulNet, the bad guys can steal money from the unsuspecting.

This is the place (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738604)

"The Place You Can Leave Your Wallet At Home"

This Is The Place You Can Leave Your Wallet At Home
Drive On...

There, fixed it for you.

Bank Account of Phone bill? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738640)

Does that mean purchases end up on my phone bill, or my phone is tied into my bank? Or would there just add an additional monthly bill I'd have to pay?

I don't trust that AT&T won't add an additional 'fee' to every purchase I make.

SLC is the BEST place for this field test? (1)

or-switch (1118153) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738822)

$10 says that after they roll this out to the rest of the country we rapidly find out that nobody noticed the system doesn't work for buying alcohol

Re:SLC is the BEST place for this field test? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35738900)

Jokes aside, it actually is a pretty good place to test. The light rail system in SLC is relatively new and as such there's been a lot of change in the way the city views its public transit. People might be a bit more open to the idea given that.

Also its not a very large system so they can easily cover it all.

Folks love this (1)

Jeff1946 (944062) | more than 3 years ago | (#35738902)

I used it there in Feb on the buses up to the ski resorts. My son works for a bank and test used a swipe phone two years ago. When people behind him in line saw it, they all asked, "Where can I get one?" Expect it will be the norm in a few years.

That system had better be bullet-proof (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739180)

And I don't just mean that figuratively.

If one of these goes on the fritz because some drunk pounds it with a rebar he found lying on the road, it's going to strand commuters.

On the other hand, since it doesn't involve any sort of slot to insert or swipe anything, that's one less point of weakness. You can plant the NFC transceiver behind an inch of HDPE (plastic decking, e.g.) and it'll never feel a thing.

The ticket-printer slot is still going to be there. Unless the ticket is also electronic and someone wanting to check it can NFC your phone to know if you're riding privileges are intact.

Re:That system had better be bullet-proof (1)

John Meacham (1112) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739380)

Many subway/public transport systems already have swipe readers, such as TAP in los angeles. It just requires carrying around a special TAP card and opening a TAP account rather than being able to use your phone and an independent billing method. Most stops have automated payment kiosks only and no one gets stranded, they just aren't very attractive vandalism targets and there are a lot of CCTV cameras at the stops.

Leave your wallet at home... (1)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739232)

...but don't forget your expensive smartphone.

Re:Leave your wallet at home... (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | more than 3 years ago | (#35740158)

Yeah, not a very good idea. If I leave my wallet at home and replace it with my phone, that means I have to load all my credit card info, my drivers license, my various id's, my voter registration, and my BestBuy reward zone card, which was just compromised anyhow.

What ever could go wrong?

Re:Leave your wallet at home... (1)

VolciMaster (821873) | more than 3 years ago | (#35745174)

Yeah, not a very good idea. If I leave my wallet at home and replace it with my phone, that means I have to load all my credit card info, my drivers license, my various id's, my voter registration, and my BestBuy reward zone card, which was just compromised anyhow.

What ever could go wrong?

Who carries their voter registration around with them? Everywhere I've lived, you only need something on Election Day, and it's generally just a driver license.

Re:Leave your wallet at home... (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | more than 3 years ago | (#35746836)

I carry it around with me. Sumpin' wrong with that?

Pronouncing PYCLYWAH (1)

Aggrav8d (683620) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739340)

Pihk-lee-wah?

Pie-klie-wah?

I prefer the first choice.

NYC Subway tokens were the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35739562)

Glad I got a chance to use NYC tokens when they still existed. You could use them on the subway or the bus. One token took you anywhere, at least in Manhattan. I never left the island while I was there for a week. That's how it ought to be. Fuck this tracking crap. It's all just to force you to get a dumbphone. I refuse to call it a smart phone. It's a dumbphone, because technological lockin is dumb. Fuck it.

Re:NYC Subway tokens were the best (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 3 years ago | (#35739928)

With every such system I know of, payment-via-phone is an option, and you can just use a stored-charge contactless smartcard instead.

I actually have a phone I can use to pay for the train, but I just use a card instead because it's anonymous (the cards can be recharged easily at a ticket machine, or a new one obtained from a machine for a ¥500 deposit) and it's easier to grab the card from my pocket than fish out my phone...

leave wallet at home? lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35740922)

Salt Lake City strives to become The Place You Can Leave Your Wallet At Home.

excuse me, just who the fuck do you think you are?
you think you're a free man?

LET'S SEE SOME GOVERNMENT ID, SERF.

"The Place You Can Leave Your Wallet At Home" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35741426)

Well, except for you driver's license, state id, national id, selective service card, social security card, and g*d knows what else.

I wouldn't trust them with my money (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 3 years ago | (#35742016)

I wouldn't trust them with my money. Remember the Mountain Meadows Massacre

chaussures air max bw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35742368)

s finally shown the light (and a sinker) by Dave Duncan. Pineiro learned that he just couldn't put hitters away like he used to, so he focused instead on pitching to contact and pounding the strike zone. Obviously Kazmir doesn't have a sinker or pinpoint command to rely on, but he would still be wise to follow Pineiro's lead. So I say Kazmir needs chaussures air max bw [nikeairmaxbwpascher.com] to give up on going for the K, which leads to him nibbling at the corners trying to get batters to chase bad pitches, and flip the script by aggressively attacking batters to get them to at least put the ball in play and earn their way on base, rather than walking. That approach won't earn him any All-Star selections, but it could make him the next Randy Wolf. Maybe that is damning him with feint praise, but Wolf, though lackluster, has had a long career

Takes pick-pocketing to a new level (1)

tehrustine (2020446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35745382)

The concept sounds cool, but if all you have to do is get close the phone close enough to the scanner it seems easy enough for someone to walk around a crowded street and charge everyone they pass.

*sigh...* (1)

Celestialwolf (1656075) | more than 3 years ago | (#35747298)

Time to get a Faraday cage cell phone bag to prevent random unauthorized charges if I happen to walk in the wrong place. That would kind of defeat the purpose of the phone though if nobody can contact me... FML.
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