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Mono Comes To Android

samzenpus posted about 3 years ago | from the here-have-some dept.

Android 257

hairyfeet writes "After releasing Monotouch for iPhone which allows c# development on iOS, Novell has announced the availability of Mono for Android. Will this give us the 'one language to rule them all' that Java failed to bring, or will the bad blood between the F/OSS groups and Microsoft make this a dead end?"

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257 comments

Mono? On my Android? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738644)

Guess I won't be kissing it for a week or so.

First post! (-1)

DMFNR (1986182) | about 3 years ago | (#35738646)

Did I just win something

Re:First post! (3, Funny)

rivetgeek (977479) | about 3 years ago | (#35738702)

Congratulations! You won a heaping cup chock full to the brim with failure and abject destitution!

Neither (5, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | about 3 years ago | (#35738658)

Will this give us the 'one language to rule them all' that Java failed to bring, or will the bad blood between the F/OSS groups and Microsoft make this a dead end?

Neither. It will be exactly what it already is today, just one of many programming languages.

Re:Neither (3, Insightful)

nicholas22 (1945330) | about 3 years ago | (#35738730)

No, it will be less than current *platforms* (as Mono is not a language) and the reason for this is because Microsoft can wipe the floor with it at any point it feels like.

Re:Neither (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738752)

Keep believing that, retard.

Re:Neither (1)

nicholas22 (1945330) | about 3 years ago | (#35738760)

Truth hurts?

Re:Neither (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738836)

No, idiots spouting nonsense like that hurts. It's the perfect excuse though because it will never happen, so you can constantly use it over and over to prove your dumb point that MS will somehow try to shutdown very limited parts of Mono (GUI-related, mostly) after granting a huge deal to Novell and doing exactly the opposite of that all these years.

Re:Neither (0)

the linux geek (799780) | about 3 years ago | (#35738806)

The only "debatable" parts of Mono are the WinForms bits, which nobody really uses anyway. Keep on trollin' though.

Re:Neither (1, Interesting)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about 3 years ago | (#35739156)

And all future updates.

Re:Neither (0)

bondsbw (888959) | about 3 years ago | (#35739250)

If you develop first with Mono, there will be no worries. And if you develop first with .NET, you are free to choose not to update.

That's only if the changes don't get published in an updated standard.

Re:Neither (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739404)

As can still be the case with Java?

Re:Neither (2, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 3 years ago | (#35739574)

...the reason for this is because Microsoft can wipe the floor with it at any point it feels like.

The same FUD has been used for the last seven years, and Microsoft is still yet to "wipe the floor". As each year passes without the predicted backlash, your suggestion looks more and more like it should come with a free tinfoil hat!

There is no indication at all that Microsoft is unhappy with Mono. In fact, Microsoft needs the Mono project to give its .NET platform legitimacy as a cross platform solution. If it tried to stop Mono then it would only serve to scare developers away from .NET completely.

Re:Neither (3, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | about 3 years ago | (#35739770)

Microsoft doesn't care about Mono for the same reason as Wine - because it doesn't - and never will - work well enough to be a factor either way. My two most recent encounters with it were: 1) trying to run the Netflix .net video player (doesn't work) and 2) trying to use the (only) free online tax filing site [freefilefi...eforms.com] (surprise! also doesn't work).

"But that's just because (blah blah blah)!!"

Exactly.

Dance with the devil (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 3 years ago | (#35739814)

Dance with the devil and you will pay his fee. There is no point to this. This Microsoft crap adds nothing you can't get without the taint.

Not correct (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 3 years ago | (#35739808)

Mono is not a language

Although you are technically correct that Mono is not a language, Mono IS a mechanism to use the C# language.

From there to actually develop applications for the iPhone, you make use of the Apple frameworks, which Mono has handily wrapped in C# wrappers.

So I wouldn't say it's "less" than anything, it's just basically a way to use C# for different platforms while still using the native libraries they offer.

Re:Neither (1)

shmlco (594907) | about 3 years ago | (#35739282)

"Will this give us the 'one language to rule them all' that Java failed to bring..."

More like the one language to lose them all. Java and Flash cross-platform development have shown that you tend up with a least-common-denominator application that fails to take full advantage of any given platform, Couple that with failing to fully match a specific platform's UI and UX conventions, and you have a nice little recipe for developing a losing application.

You're also perpetually behind the curve, OS-wise. If Apple releases iOS 5, or Google releases Android 3.1, are you good to go on launch day? Or do you need to wait for your cross-platform vendor to decide whether or not they're going to support the latest goodies?

Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738666)

This is awesome. I was waiting for this a long time.

And In Other News (5, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 3 years ago | (#35738682)

Reuters Minas Tirith - Mordor Inc. has announced the release of Ring of Power Open Source Version, to be released to the Free Peoples of Middle Earth. Mordor VP of Marketing, the Mouth of Sauron, has announced that the purpose of this open source version of the Ring of Power is to demonstrate Mordor's goodwill to all people.

"We're really hoping that all those Elves and Numenoreans and Halflings take our Open Source version of the Ring of Power and use it to do all kinds of nifty things." the Mouth of Sauron said. "There has been some animosity in the past between Mordor and the rest of Middle Earth, but we're pretty keen to the idea that this is the time to put it all behind us, so we're releasing, with this commitment from Sauron himself, open source Rings of Power with no future obligations to the Dark Lord, the Nazgul or anyone else in our organization."

When asked about previous attempts to take control of the other competing powers in Middle Earth (such as the infamous "One Ring to Rule Them All One Ring to Bind Them" proprietary patent-encumbered master Ring), the Mouth of Sauron dismissed it out of hand. "That was just business. But this is the dawning of a new age, and Mordor commits to not trying to seize control of the minds of any wielders of any open source Rings of Power... honest!"

(With files from Rivendell Archives)

Re:And In Other News (1)

Dracos (107777) | about 3 years ago | (#35738798)

Aptly put, sir.

So in two years when WP7 is still an also-ran in the mobile market, MS has another reason to trigger their patent bomb to defend .NET. Brilliant.

Re:And In Other News (2)

TrancePhreak (576593) | about 3 years ago | (#35739020)

Wouldn't they have already done this with iPhone? Unity, which makes up a fair number of games on iPhone, uses Mono.

Re:And In Other News (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | about 3 years ago | (#35739266)

Uh, the Nazgul wouldn't have been around, as they were recipients of the rings of power.

(If I can't post a pedantic nerd post to a Lord of the Rings parody of a software announcement, where can I?)

Re:And In Other News (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 3 years ago | (#35739348)

You missed another inconsistency, and that is the Mouth of Sauron, who certainly wouldn't have been around in the Second Age.

Re:And In Other News (1)

DrJimbo (594231) | about 3 years ago | (#35739878)

Uh, the Nazgul wouldn't have been around, as they were recipients of the rings of power.

Uh, those would have been proprietary Rings of Power®, just like the One Ring to Rule them All®, which was also mentioned in the press release. The good peoples of Middle Earth had become suspicious of the proprietary Rings of Power after seeing recipients turn into Nazgul and such.

The newly released Open Source Rings of Power have all of the power and benefits of the proprietary RoPs and have the appearance of less of a downside. It is a win-win for both Sauron and for his minions.

words of wisdom, from Baraq Hussein Obama: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738688)

Then: Elections have consequences! We won, get over it!

Now: Waaah!!!

Re:words of wisdom, from Baraq Hussein Obama: (0)

spun (1352) | about 3 years ago | (#35738734)

Then: Elections have consequences! We won, get over it!

Now: Waaah!!!

Yeah, that's exactly what they are saying in Wisconsin today. Prosser the Tosser is out the door, Scott Walker's agenda will be killed in the courts now, the unions and working people will triumph, and the recall of the Republican senators is moving ahead full steam. The next national election will be very interesting, don't you think?

IPhone C# (1)

codepunk (167897) | about 3 years ago | (#35738692)

The iPhone developer licence forbids scripting engines or Just-In-Time (JIT) compilers, which .NET needs to run code.

Someone had better let all of the Unity IPhone developers know that they cannot use Mono C# on the iphone as it is forbidden. Really guys all of those apps you have been selling for the last two years for the IPhone is just not possible.

Re:IPhone C# (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738754)

The iPhone developer licence forbids scripting engines or Just-In-Time (JIT) compilers, which .NET needs to run code.

Someone had better let all of the Unity IPhone developers know that they cannot use Mono C# on the iphone as it is forbidden. Really guys all of those apps you have been selling for the last two years for the IPhone is just not possible.

Simply wrong. Apple revised their license months ago, bringing Unity and other Mono-based applications into full compliance.

Re:IPhone C# (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738756)

Factoid of the day: Mono does not require a JIT or an interpretor to execute .NET code!

Re:IPhone C# (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738758)

Wrong.

MonoTouch ( which is the IOS .NET development suite ) uses the Mono Full AOT feature and precompiles all the code into a static binary ( including the base class libraries ) and links in runtime stubs for GC and the likes.

Certain features of .NET are naturally not available ( runtime code generation, features relying thereupon ) and some c# features don't work ( virtual methods in generic classes for example )

So you end up with a fully statically linked executable with no JIT included, fully compliant with IOS licensing terms.

Unity3D uses the same approach ( and probably shares a bit of the codebase )

.net WebClient == no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738696)

.net's WebClient is hilarious in handling errors, I for one welcome the inability to find response text for problems on my Android phones as well as at work, since a fair amount of Android apps use the internet.

too pricey (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738698)

How many hundreds of dollars is this thing going to cost? Bad enough to have the $400 license for iphone monotouch...

Re:too pricey (4, Interesting)

Shemmie (909181) | about 3 years ago | (#35738810)

Exactly what I thought. So I went and looked [mono-android.net] - $99 for student (non-commercial use), $399 for basic commercial, through to $3999 for enterprise.

Crazy. Would love to use it, won't touch it with a barge pole at that price.

News that matters? (3, Insightful)

MaggieL (10193) | about 3 years ago | (#35738700)

We already can program Android in Java (and Scala) and script it in Python, Lua, BeanShell, Perl, Tcl, JavaScript and Ruby. I hadn't noticed the multitudes crying out for Mono.

Re:News that matters? (1)

jkauzlar (596349) | about 3 years ago | (#35738762)

+1 parent

Will this give us the 'one language to rule them all' that Java failed to bring

No, because Mono isn't a language. C# and F# are languages.

Re:News that matters? (4, Informative)

the linux geek (799780) | about 3 years ago | (#35738818)

Everything I've seen other than Java is, at best, half-baked on Android. Scala is the closest I've seen to full-featured.

Re:News that matters? (2)

grubwort (1356089) | about 3 years ago | (#35738952)

Sounds like MonoTouch on the iPhone. All ticking along nicely until you hit an unexpected exception in one of the core Novell libraries. Typical open source project; push out a half baked solution and expect the "community" to fix it for you.

Re:News that matters? (1)

MaggieL (10193) | about 3 years ago | (#35739762)

The others I mentioned are scripted using the JSR-223 interface; not something you'd use for anything really deep. Scala is just Java with the compiler replaced by the same guy who more-or-less wrote the current javac, but allowing himself to define a new language with a lot of the mistakes in the design of the Java language itself mitigated. It's totally OO and totally functional at the same time, yet can use existing Java libraries with an amazing level of transparency.

Re:News that matters? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738942)

The "multitudes" crying out for it all work for one corporation.

Re:News that matters? (3, Insightful)

caywen (942955) | about 3 years ago | (#35739112)

I never saw multitudes cry out for C# for mobile games development, either, but Unity appears to be a very successful product. You don't need people crying out for a product to make development worthwhile.

Maybe if .NET 3 and 4 never happened (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738728)

.NET 2 was a competitor to Java. Since then I believe the API has gone downhill so much that it really hinders development. Who comes up with data structures that throw an exception because you asked it if something was inside and the answer was 'no'?

Like all MS software, they will blunder on thinking they still drive the entire industry, completely ignoring EVERYTHING their customers tell them and fixing only security issues. Like Windows, .NET will one day be something we look back on while shaking our heads in wonder, with the same feeling you would get watching someone dial a rotary phone.

Re:Maybe if .NET 3 and 4 never happened (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738764)

Yeah, I like how they went on "ignoring EVERYTHING their customers tell them and fixing only security issues" after Windows Vista came out, and then one day Windows 7 just magically popped out of nowhere.

if(comment.Premise.HasValue) (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739382)

Use the HasValue property to check for null without causing an exception. Doesn't make that much sense to me, but it's not hard either.

C# and Linq To SQL is still way better than Java. I wonder if all this functionality will make it into Android...

Re:Maybe if .NET 3 and 4 never happened (1)

luder (923306) | about 3 years ago | (#35739744)

Who comes up with data structures that throw an exception because you asked it if something was inside and the answer was 'no'?

I'm intrigued... What data structures are you talking about? I don't remember seeing that behavior.

Implying.. (2)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | about 3 years ago | (#35738732)

"...or will the bad blood between the F/OSS groups and Microsoft make this a dead end?"

>>Implying that F/OSS groups are the only ones or even the majority that makes apps for android.

I hear that .Net framework is pretty good for building good games. So it will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Great for WP7 migration! (4, Interesting)

DdJ (10790) | about 3 years ago | (#35738736)

It's really great that there's finally a tool to make life easier for all the developers building Windows Phone 7 apps in C# that want to move their code base to the Android platform!

Re:Great for WP7 migration! (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 3 years ago | (#35738786)

And even better news that the Mono patent virus is now going to be directly infecting one of Google's flagships! Yay for Redmond and its evil little minion de Icaza.

Re:Great for WP7 migration! (1)

nicholas22 (1945330) | about 3 years ago | (#35738788)

It's great, but there aren't that many to begin with, so I hope this atleast breaks even. I like plurality in my programming life!

Worst /. article ever? (1)

Angst Badger (8636) | about 3 years ago | (#35738774)

First, this is just flamebait.

Second, the only people who want everything to be done in one language are those clueless zealots everyone finds an excuse not to hang out with after work.

Third, even if one language completely dominated the niche category of handheld consumer devices, it would mean nothing outside that niche.

Slow news day?

Re:Worst /. article ever? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738826)

The story poster is a known idiot around these parts..have a look at his comment history.

Re:Worst /. article ever? (1)

hax4bux (209237) | about 3 years ago | (#35739134)

+1 insightful

I dunno about being the worst article (stiff competition) but spot on about "people who want everything in one language"

I have been teaching Android development for over a year, and the biggest wankers are the ones who come to argue rather than learn.

Real engineers don't have a problem soaking up another platform.

Re:Worst /. article ever? (1)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about 3 years ago | (#35739490)

Huh? how do the "arguers" have anything to do with "one language" ? (aside from a commonly used argument). Having a single language that can meet your development needs is a Good Thing (tm). Remember the K.I.S.S. principle? Sounds like you are indeed a teacher of "development" but not a teacher of "design", and good design [rarely taught or learned, especially not in software] aims to simplify where possible - which means "one language" is a good design goal (and it always indicates poor design in an API if a single language cannot be used to solve most common problems).

Re:Worst /. article ever? (4, Insightful)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about 3 years ago | (#35739432)

Actually, it is *terrible* design to use more than one language if you don't have to. Sure, for small, short-lived projects you can mix and match tools, but for huge, long-lived projects you need to be able to replace people quickly (with large numbers of people then staff turnover is inevitable for a multitude of reasons). Having extra languages is a negative with respect to this. This is why the relative simplicity of Java is viewed favorably in the Enterprise and more complex and obscure alternatives (which may actually be better fits for the purpose) are avoided.

With regard to your "find an excuse to not hang out with after work" comment. Actually, it are pseudo-academic language snobs who are avoided. The kind who love adding layer upon layer of complexity (including switching languages and tools all over the place), and take pride in their l337 skills for doing this. They can be great developers but are shitty *designers* (too bad they're usually so clueless at design they never even see or consider this aspect). Remember, great design is about *removing* stuff. As Einstein said, "As simple as possible, but no simpler" [note: this is actually misquote of what he actually said, but it is commonly enough used and conveys the same meaning in fewer words]. That means *fewer* languages, not more, should be preferred.

Re:Worst /. article ever? (1)

Draek (916851) | about 3 years ago | (#35739718)

The "one language to rule them all" bit isn't about having everyone use the same language, but about having a language supported on every platform. Java, AFAIK, isn't supported on iOS which is why it's considered a "failure" in that respect, and obviously nobody outside Apple uses ObjC for anything serious so that one's dead as well.

That fella Miguel... (0)

bogaboga (793279) | about 3 years ago | (#35738776)

...I just wanted to say..."He's one hell of a programmer..." He definitely has lots of ambition. Google should pull him into Android programming for his [incredible] talent will be a plus to Android development.

Kinda pricey... (5, Informative)

MaggieL (10193) | about 3 years ago | (#35738778)

This just in: "Mono for Android includes the core Mono runtime, bindings for native Android APIs, a Visual Studio 2010 plug-in for developing and testing Android applications, and a software development kit (SDK). The enterprise edition costs $999 (£613) per developer per year, including maintenance and updates. A five-developer enterprise licence costs $3,999 per year, and a professional edition costs £399 per developer per year."

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/communication-breakdown-10000030/novell-releases-mono-for-android-toolset-10022167/?tag=mncol;txt [zdnet.co.uk]

Re:Kinda pricey... (1)

swabeui (1291044) | about 3 years ago | (#35739362)

A few years ago I would have agreed 100%. Running a SW department with people with all different strengths I'd be fine to pay it. If I needed Android development I would have two choices. Hire someone new (way costly) or have a C# developer pick it up. My guys are sharp and could do it but the learning time needed would be far more than a grand. Assuming it worked well I can see it saving money for a lot of C# dev houses that have increased demand for Android/iOS apps.

Re:Kinda pricey... (1)

vgerclover (1186893) | about 3 years ago | (#35739796)

So your guys are sharp, but they can't use C#'s older cousin Java? They aren't sharp, they are #.

Re:Kinda pricey... (1)

tomhudson (43916) | about 3 years ago | (#35739922)

If you remember your music C# is also D flat (or D-), which is what I grade Mono as, for the simple reason that you don't need it for Android.

This will not rule the world (3, Insightful)

prefec2 (875483) | about 3 years ago | (#35738852)

First, it is mono. Beside any technical argument. There are a lot of people who do not like mono, because it is an incarnation of evil (alias MS). I am not saying that it is, but many people feel that way. So this is definitely one obstacle. Second, Android and iOS are different enough to be different on the low level aka programming language level, which will result either in compatibility libraries which are wrappers and resemble at some point internal DSLs. And they result in another abstraction layer which costs memory and CPU power. When you used an iPhone 3G/3GS you already find your phone to slow. So why torture yourself with slow software. And fourth, there are other cross platform approaches which use external DSLs which do not introduce another layer of abstraction at runtime, only on built time. For example: http://code.google.com/p/applause/ [google.com]

Re:This will not rule the world (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739666)

Actually this won't even annoy the world a little. The vast legions of .NET developers are used to free tools that run on cheap hardware. Make them pay a subscription and the use Mac hardware and all you're doing is creating yet another fully bastardized solution.

pardon me... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738870)

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

.NET - where deployment is just a word (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738878)

I can write a .NET program on native windows and when I launch the EXE on a machine with no .NET it will simply fail with an error number. It doesn't ask you if you want to put .NET on or even explain to you that you need it to run the program, it just fails.

How a system that seems to deliberately hinder its own uptake could ever become 'ubiquitous' escapes me.

Re:.NET - where deployment is just a word (3, Funny)

Mr2001 (90979) | about 3 years ago | (#35739164)

I can write a .NET program on native windows and when I launch the EXE on a machine with no .NET it will simply fail with an error number. It doesn't ask you if you want to put .NET on or even explain to you that you need it to run the program, it just fails.

So... the same thing that happens whenever you launch any other program with its required libraries missing? Try copying a native VC++ program to a system that doesn't have the VC++ runtime installed. It won't spoon-feed you information about what the VC++ runtime is, why you need it, where to get it, and how to install it; it'll just give you a cryptic error.

If you want to do deployment properly, you need an installer. With Visual Studio it's dead simple to make a setup program that'll check for prerequisites like .NET and install them automatically.

"which allows c# development on iOS" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738906)

well, to be precise, it allows c# development _for_ iOS. you'd have to be insane to write code using your iphone

I admit it, I like C# (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35738918)

Man, I've programmed in everything on custom embedded to web apps ... and I have a confession ... I really like C#.
Of course I can nit-pick, but it is really the first language where the syntax and debugging does not hinder me.

Mono for Android! (3, Funny)

Locke2005 (849178) | about 3 years ago | (#35738922)

For all those developers that really want to combine all the disadvantages of programming for Android with all the disadvantages of using a Microsoft-controlled API!

Re:Mono for Android! (0)

Mr2001 (90979) | about 3 years ago | (#35739174)

Microsoft-controlled API

You misspelled "ECMA-standardized API". HTH!

Re:Mono for Android! (3, Informative)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about 3 years ago | (#35739306)

The C# language is/was ECMA-standardized. The libraries (eg. the "API") most certainly is not. Even disgregarding the legal aspects, the fact of the matter is that the only complete implementation of the .NET stack is Microsoft's. Mono is missing many major components, as detailed in their page:
http://www.mono-project.com/Compatibility [mono-project.com]

The nebulous danger (3, Insightful)

steveha (103154) | about 3 years ago | (#35738932)

As I understand it, here is the chief complaint that people have about Mono: Microsoft could have some sort of patents that could apply to Mono; and Microsoft could in the future use these patents to do something bad.

I have never seen any specific examples given, it's just a general "there could be some patents" argument. In fact, I believe the theory is that these could be "submarine" patents, not known now but lurking invisibly.

Here's a specific example. This is a long essay [techrights.org] about this very issue. What is the danger if we use Mono? "[C#] was developed inside Microsoft, so it's likely they have many patents to cover different aspects of its implementation." Got that? "it's likely" Microsoft has "many patents". Citation needed.

This is the 21st Century, and patents are not only public, there are patent search engines. Where are the specific examples?

The situation is even crazier due to the passage of time. Microsoft introduced .NET in the year 2000. It is now the year 2011. Patents in the USA today have a term of 20 years. Presumably these submarine patents were not filed the same year as .NET was introduced; that would be far too obvious... they were probably filed a year or two ahead of time. So presumably these patents have a maximum life of under 9 years, and probably under 7 years.

In the past 11 or 12 years, nobody has noticed these deadly patents, lurking. But wait: these could be true "submarine" patents, where the patent was filed but not granted yet, and Microsoft is using sleazy tricks to extend the filing period and delay granting the patents. This implies that the patent must have been filed before 1995, when the US patent system was changed (patent term went from "17 years after patent granted" to "20 years after patent filed", specifically to fix the problem of submarine patents). Thus, a true "submarine" patent would have to have been kept going via sleazy tricks for over 16 years now, and nobody has noticed it yet.

So, if I understand correctly, we shouldn't use Mono because it could be a trap. Microsoft could have patents nobody has noticed for a dozen years that will expire within the next nine years that could apply to Mono. Or else they could have pending patent applications that have been pending for over 16 years without anybody noticing; those would apply for 17 years after the patent grant finally occurs in the future.

And if the above turns out to be true, and you wrote a program in C#, what would Microsoft's remedy be? Would you be forced to pay them huge sums of money? Would you be forced to give ownership of your source code to Microsoft? Not likely, and anybody who claims it is likely needs to provide legal precedents showing such a remedy in a similar case. No, the only realistic remedy would be that you would have to choose between buying some sort of licensed version of Mono (to comply with the patent licensing terms), or stop using Mono.

And the obvious exit strategy is to rewrite your C# app in Java. That would be a pain, granted, but hardly the end of the world.

And that is even assuming that Microsoft was successful in asserting these hidden patents. After offering C# up as a free standard, and not taking any action for a dozen years, to suddenly assert hidden patents would leave Microsoft wide open to the "unclean hands" [wikipedia.org] legal doctrine. It's hard for me to imagine Microsoft prevailing in this.

And nobody has yet proposed a motive why Microsoft should do this. How does Microsoft gain by backstabbing the C# community? In the near term they could gain some patent licensing fees, but in the long term they would be alienating people they have been trying to woo. How likely is this, really?

So, in conclusion: because of this nebulously scary potential situation with possible unknown Microsoft patents, Mono and C# are incredibly contentious and nobody should use them.

I suggest you just write everything in Python. It used to be too slow, but that is changing [pypy.org].

steveha

Re:The nebulous danger (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739092)

Microsoft has been threatening patents on Linux for 15 years, should we stop using Linux? No.

The fact that Microsoft has failed to reveal any patents means that we should consider all or most of their patent strategy to be expertly-made FUD.

Cross platform compatibility! (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | about 3 years ago | (#35738954)

Let's see, Windows Phone apps are written in C#, iPhone apps are written in Objective C, and Android Apps are written in Java... so obviously using Mono on all three is going to be a big win for cross platform programming!

Can we get... (1)

NecroPuppy (222648) | about 3 years ago | (#35738978)

Penicillin for Android next?

To help with mono infections?

(Yes, I know penicillin doesn't work on real world mono. It's a joke.)

Re:Can we get... (1)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about 3 years ago | (#35739342)

Would have been funnier if you had said, "Acyclovir" (which does have action against the Herpes Simplex virus, aka "Mono") :)

Yeah, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739050)

what we really want to know if what the Expensify CEO think about this. I'll wait to find out what the Oracle of Frisco decrees...

The answer is No. (2)

theBully (1056930) | about 3 years ago | (#35739136)

I am a programmer and I program in C# sometimes. C# like Java, VB, etc. was established with the idea of high level quick programming. A programming language that allows anyone to program. The problem with it is, that, anyone programs in it. I won't go to say that you can't program hard core staff with it...just most of its programmers don't.

Mono, is a framework and not a programming language. And it does incorporate the basic stuff of the .Net framework. Having that said it's not a bad framework and brings the ability to develop cross-platform in C#. However, the fact that it only includes the basics disables that "rapid programming" paradigm which exists around C# + .Net in quite a large part.

Programming cross-platform has never been and never will be trivial. Java offers that capability at a high performance cost (still). Also, looking at many OSS developments in Java I tend to think that it brews bad habit. Again, that might not be Java, it may be simply poor programmers and poor architects.

If searching for that "one language to rule them all, one framework to rule them all" grail, have a look at C/C++ and the standard libraries. But don't look at that as being the fastest development path. It's simply the smallest common denominator and that poses some challenges. Programming cross-platform is definitely not an easy task and not for everyone.

Food for thought: Not all software has to be cross-platform.

OpenStep! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739166)

.NET is to mono as Cocoa is to GNUStep. Compatible in theory, unused in practice.

I rather use QT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739292)

Plus it also use NDK I don't know how to program in java, and I refuse to learn java.
http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/28/necessitas/

oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739308)

i have to inspect the program before i download it so that i don't get patenttrap mono on my android phone

mono came shortly after the taste app (1)

Life2Death (801594) | about 3 years ago | (#35739564)

This also is during the arrival of smell and taste addition to the iPad, as seen on TV news

Oh please please please please (1)

pookemon (909195) | about 3 years ago | (#35739596)

Dear Microsoft,

If you were smart, you'd reinstate your Java to C# converter.

Signed,

Fed up Java dev...

Hrm, I thought it was a bit sluggish recently. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739638)

End of Line

Kill it with fire (1)

bl8n8r (649187) | about 3 years ago | (#35739804)

anything novell is offering is better suited for use as an example of what *not* to use. sorry, but someone please kill mono with fire, and while your at it, drive a wooden stake through the lump under the blanket next to it - silverlight.

Mono may never catch up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35739904)

The real problem is that Mono only supports .NET 2.0.

The significant benefits available in newer released unfortunately tie .NET more and more to the Windows platform, though Mono could still incorporate a lot more than it does currently.

As a c# 4.0 Dev, but a long standing Linux advocate, I unfortunately cannot develop for Mono because it is so out dated and I have become very accustomed to utilizing all the contemporary language features such as lambdas, linq, expression trees, anonymous types, etc.

Visual Studio 2010 also provides a development experience which Mono developers can only dream of (though it is not without its problems, as with any M$ product of course)

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