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DRM Drives Gamers To Piracy, Says Good Old Games

Soulskill posted about 3 years ago | from the internal-dissent dept.

DRM 642

arcticstoat writes "Independent retro games retailer Good Old Games has spoken out about digital rights management, saying that it can actually drive gamers to piracy, rather than acting as a deterrent. In an interview, a spokesperson for Good Old Games said that the effectiveness of DRM as a piracy-deterrent was 'None, or close to none.' 'What I will say isn't popular in the gaming industry,' says Kukawski, 'but in my opinion DRM drives people to pirate games rather than prevent them from doing that. Would you rather spend $50 on a game that requires installing malware on your system, or to stay online all the time and crashes every time the connection goes down, or would you rather download a cracked version without all that hassle?'"

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Yup (5, Insightful)

Kell Bengal (711123) | about 3 years ago | (#35788662)

I certainly agree. I accidentally bought a game with DRM and online activation that I couldn't return (brick and morter retailer while on holiday). I'm allergic to installing that crap on my system, so I figured out how to bypass it with a modified exe. Why go to all that effort? Because I should control my system, and nobody else. I won't go so far as to pirate it, but I can understand why some people would.

Re:Yup (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 3 years ago | (#35788704)

I agree also, after my wife gave me GTA4 a couple years ago for xmas I couldnt ever play the durn thing, Our clearwire, while fine for browsing was not 100% on 100% of the time. I wanted to play my new game and the DRM instantly drove me to find a crack.

If I am going to have to goto a shady site and take a risk downloading something, just to play my game, I have to ask why should I double team myself and pay money for the privilege too

Re:Yup (0, Troll)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 3 years ago | (#35788734)

Exactly. There's not a lot to discuss on the issue. Most of the comments will be duplicates of those made ten years ago to a similar article. In other words, a circle jerk.

Re:Yup (0)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | about 3 years ago | (#35788900)

Right. There's not much going on with that lately. The posts all start to sound familiar, like they were already posted in a similar discussion. For example, a daisy-chain of sockpuppet masturbation.

You and your comment-parent. I am holding your penis with my right hand, and holding your parent's penis with my left hand. When I thrust my hand forward on yours, I thrust my hand backwards on his. Then vise-versa. It's like swinging your arms when walking. You alternate, because if you swing both arms forward at the same time, you will fall over. Or perhaps you could do that while on your knees and giving head, because you will rock beneficially without falling on your ass.

It's dickerent when fondling balls. There's no signifiskank magnitute of hamonic motion when fondling balls. Shaved, not hairy. 'Cause when they shaved they get they grip on, unless you powder 'em or some shit. You've never lived until you've seen a man's balls being fondled as seen him man on through a good plexiglas shitting table(i.e. "glass-bottom-boat").

Nah guys, I'm totally not gay. I fucked like 5 chicks last night, and staid hard the hole time. Hot ones, too.

Re:Yup (3, Interesting)

Zemran (3101) | about 3 years ago | (#35788870)

I will not consider buying a game that I cannot get a nocd crack for. Why would I want to have to put a DVD in every time I play? As for having to play while online, there is no way I would pay for something that I cannot play when I want, and I do not always have an internet connection. It is all stupid, so yes, I know that I 'AM' driven to look at p2p games because I cannot get a playable version that I can buy.

Re:Yup (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789132)

I accidentally bought a game with DRM and online activation that I couldn't return

How does one "accidentally" buy anything? Is there some definition of "accidental" of which I'm not aware? You either bought it, or you did not. The fact that it had DRM, etc., has NO bearing upon your purchasing it, it merely points out that you did so without understanding what you were buying.

But, of course, that's typical: I'm not responsible for my actions, because someone should have saved me from myself.

You're an idiot.

Re:Yup (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789202)

No, you're the idiot. It's not the he accidentally bought the game, but rather that he accidentally bought a game with DRM. Many people purposely avoid games with DRM on purpose, and should they buy one, it's an accident because had they known it was on there, they most certainly would not have bought it. For example, games where the publisher says there will be no DRM on this game, only to find out after you've bought it, that there was (there is a very recent example of this, but I can't remember the title, but I'm sure someone here does). He's not saying it's someone else's fault, he's saying whoops, I f'ed up, I believed the publisher and got lied to, or I didn't do good enough research before hand and I got burnt.

Re:Yup (1)

Fentekreel (634892) | about 3 years ago | (#35789146)

Thats why i do it.... I want your game on my pc... not your favorite other things... then i gave up trying to pirate...i just went to the console.

I started pirating because of DRM (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788686)

Then I kept doing it because I'm cheap. Guess they got to me in my formative years.

Not just games, either... (5, Insightful)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | about 3 years ago | (#35788690)

The whole Blu-ray bullshit, too.

I have a blu-ray player, but I run Linux. Playing Blu-ray in linux is difficult and error prone.

So I download the movies instead. I would happily buy them legally if I could pop them in and just play them in linux.

And the fact that the bluray rips are available with little to no effort on all the pirate sites would suggest to me that the copy protection isn't working anyway.

Re:Not just games, either... (-1, Offtopic)

sproketboy (608031) | about 3 years ago | (#35788772)

Yes mod down yet another complaint about how Linux is shit - maybe no one will notice.

Re:Not just games, either... (1)

Sancho (17056) | about 3 years ago | (#35788914)

Why don't you do both? Buy the Blu-ray, then download the version you can actually use?

Re:Not just games, either... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788942)

Because that's stupid as fuck?

Re:Not just games, either... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788976)

Why support something that doesn't support you?

Re:Not just games, either... (1)

SpeZek (970136) | about 3 years ago | (#35788992)

Because then he's out $40 and still has the potential to get sued for copyright infringement. Why do both?

Re:Not just games, either... (1)

chihowa (366380) | about 3 years ago | (#35789000)

Why don't you do both? Buy the Blu-ray, then download the version you can actually use?

Paying for the movie won't release you from any liability should you be caught downloading it. The risk is the same either way. You'd only be paying for it to make yourself feel better about the whole process. (Note that I do pay and download if I want to feel like I'm "supporting" the group who made a product, even if I'm not happy with the delivery method.)

Re:Not just games, either... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789002)

If he's going to be labeled a criminal either way, why choose the option that he has to pay for?

Re:Not just games, either... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789032)

Why don't you do both? Buy the Blu-ray, then download the version you can actually use?

Apart from that being totally absurd, instead I put 50 bucks aside into a long term investment fund creaming on interest; you know, just in case I get caught later on and have to pay up [slashdot.org].

Re:Not just games, either... (1, Informative)

adolf (21054) | about 3 years ago | (#35789098)


This whole chain of argument is specious, at best.

The obvious solution to playing Blu-Ray movies on Linux is not to bother trying to do so in the first place: At no point has a Linux distribution ever proclaimed "Hey, guys: We play Blu-Ray!!!!"

It is plainly unsupported. And anyone who understands even a small bit about the DRM in place on Blu-Ray can also understand that Linux (in any completely open-source incarnation) isn't likely to gain proper support for it any time soon.

The conclusion of this argument is, thus, one of the following:

1. Forget Blu-Ray (and likely forget high-def Hollywood movies altogether). Vote with your wallet!!! (or something.)
2. Forget Linux (oh noes!!!) and run something that can actually deal with the format
3. Steal it.
4. Buy hardware that can play it natively.
5. Rip it to a more compatible format (Anydvd both kills Blu-Ray DRM and runs under Wine, last I checked).

Myself, I've chosen #4: Buy suitable hardware. My PS3 plays Blu-Ray just fine in the living room, and so does the boy's Blu-Ray machine in his bedroom. I can't play Blu-Ray directly on any of the PCs in the house (irrespective of OS, I don't have the hardware), but I've never found myself missing that functionality....

If I did miss that functionality, and I was a Linux devotee (I'm not a devotee to any particular OS), I'd probably just extend option 4, buy a random cheap Blu-Ray player, and plug it into my second monitor's HDMI+HDCP port for 1080p fun. Or, if I was feeling really anxious, I'd just temporarily move one of those two players to the office and play the movie in native 1080p.


Re:Not just games, either... (0)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | about 3 years ago | (#35789102)

Ive just spent the last few days trying to install OpenCV on Ubuntu 10.04 to have it break GDM every time I attempt. This is in spite of trying different methods from compiling it with cmake and gcc to installing packages through synaptic. It causes my login window to fail to load thus prohibiting me from actually logging in, even though Gnome loads up and shows the shutdown/restart menu and mouse pointer. After the failure, I can't even reconfigure GDM nor reinstall it, nor can I even use alternate versions of GDM or load up KDE because of some lib4***.so.2 error. Ive reinstalled Ubuntu four times. Linux experts who I follow the directions of, even those in my office that run servers and exclusively use Linux, have no idea why I get the problem even when they try to install OpenCV themselves. My only conclusion is Linux is shit and needs to suck less before people would be willing to use it regularly. It boots fast but you end up spending more time fixing things by wading through forums than its worth, much like windows 95 back in the day. Hence I don't think the use of blu-ray in Linux has any place in a discussion against working poorly with DRM. It works poorly in general.

I absolutely agree with them (2)

DreamMaster (175517) | about 3 years ago | (#35788706)

I absolutely agree with them. With the big budget games I've bought previously, I've also tended to download and apply cracks to be on the safe side - not just in case their DRM screws up my system, but also to get rid of needing the disc in all the time. There has always been temptation, though, to simply screw them over like they've screwed me over in the past, and get a pirate copy of the game.

I personally have re-bought over a dozen games I previously owned from GOG.com - they've made an effort to create automatic installers for all the older games, and it's a lot easier than breaking out the discs again. Particularly for some of the larger games, like Pandora Directive, which came on 6 CDs.

Re:I absolutely agree with them (1)

Wiarumas (919682) | about 3 years ago | (#35788770)

Yeah - GOG is a great site and I'd highly recommend them. I've purchased a bunch as well - XCOM, Masters of Magic, Masters of Orion, and a bunch of others. Not sure how well they are doing with the younger demographic, but I'm sure they are snatching up a lot of business from the older, nostalgic gamer generation.

Re:I absolutely agree with them (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 3 years ago | (#35789008)

I liked Fallout 3, because it didn't require the DVD in the drive, it was only needed during install or to change gfx options. So then I decided these guys knew what they were doing and got Fallout: New Vegas, only to discover they went over to the DRM dark side and it requires Steam now. Ugh. Did they lose so much money on FO3 that they did this, or did someone sweet talk them into a feature they didn't need?

Re:I absolutely agree with them (0)

mrbcs (737902) | about 3 years ago | (#35789192)

I bought ONE (1) Steam game. Star Trek something. I couldn't believe that they actually make sure you're online before the game starts. Downloaded the no-cd and the no-steam patch. The game lost it's sound a week or so later. (it did work after the patches though). Uninstalled. I will never buy another steam game.

I went to Direct2Drive and re-bought Star Wars Battlefront because they made it work on a quad core machine. They should do more of that.

Anyone that thinks DRM works is retarded.

That's great and all, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788712)

But I didnt need the 10+MB flash video set to auto play so it starts a) wasting my bandwidth; and b) blaring out of my speakers before i've even got down to the part where it says "make sure to watch the trailer down below."

It's obnoxious. Some of us are on metered internet these days!

Re:That's great and all, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788964)

You've never heard of flashblock?

My thoughts exactly (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788716)

People are willing to pay for things, but not for a worse end user experience.

As long as the pirates are providing a better product, they are going to win. I can't justify choosing to spend money on a worse experience. Can I get the option to pay for a valid license but then use the pirated install?

They have messed up DRM so many times and so many different ways, nobody has faith in it. In the end, the paying consumer suffers every time. Require internet for single player mode? What do you mean my media will no longer play because you turned your server off? And your secretly installing root kits?

Too intrsuive (2)

Morpeth (577066) | about 3 years ago | (#35788718)

As someone who is happy to pay $50 for a good game, there's many games I wanted to play, but simply refused to buy b/c of draconian anti-piracy measures; be they DRM, rootkits, or even requiring an online connection, especially when it's a single-player game with no online play.

While I don't personally install pirated games (too concerned about what else may come with it), I could see why people would if they really wanted to play game X. For me, there are enough other games typically that I'll just pass and go buy something else. I think the overboard DRM etc stuff does nothing to stop people from hacking it eventually, and just stops consumers like me, willing to pay for it, from buying the game(s) at all. And then there's also a certain about of ill will you feel towards the companies who do it -- maybe not a tangible, but I think it impacts my thinking and spending towards those publishers.

DRM benefits one party, and it's not the buyer (2)

mykos (1627575) | about 3 years ago | (#35788722)

DRM only (marginally) benefits one party, and it is intrusive to varying degrees depending on the method used. It does strongly resemble malware those respects. If I got a piece of malware on my computer that required that I connect to the internet or worse, pop a specific disc into my computer every time I ran the program, I'd be pretty pissed.

A little off topic, but did anyone see they recently added Realms of the Haunting [gog.com]?

Re:DRM benefits one party, and it's not the buyer (5, Insightful)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 3 years ago | (#35788930)

DRM only benefits one party, and that's the DRM software provider.

Re:DRM benefits one party, and it's not the buyer (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 3 years ago | (#35789120)

If DRM is not intrusive (remember it's Digital Restrictions Management we're talking about) then there is no point in adding the additional code. It's meant to restrict an end user from doing certain things they normally could do.

I'm an example (4, Interesting)

dbIII (701233) | about 3 years ago | (#35788728)

Dungeon Keeper II - loved the game and bought the game. The problem is it won't actually succeed in doing the stupid copy protection CD check anymore or run properly on XP without two cracks to get it to run - so that's what I do. I'd even considered buying it again at one point but gave up after a fruitless attempt to track it down.

Re:I'm an example (1)

fudoniten (918077) | about 3 years ago | (#35788944)

Arg, yes. DRM schemes are...annoying, but understandable in the short run.

But how many times have I gone back to play some classic game from my youth, only to be confronted with: "Please enter your serial number to continue"? I've moved five times since I bought this game, what are the chances I can find the original CD case/box/slip of paper/whatever that the serial was printed on?

Even more frustrating: my wife asks me to reinstall XP, and I have to scramble to find a valid serial. For a product I must have paid for 6 times over, but never really used.

Trust issues (4, Insightful)

WoollyMittens (1065278) | about 3 years ago | (#35788732)

If DRM is a result of the publisher's distrust in me, then my boycot is a result of my distrust in them.

Pipe Dream (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 3 years ago | (#35788792)

...then my boycot is a result of my distrust in them

A lot of people say that - and not just about DRM - but in the end just go out and spend the money on the DRM infestation anyway because they don't want random warez possibly infecting them with something perhaps more offensive than DRM.

Certainly there has to be a fundamental change in customer service philosophy from the game companies, but I don't think pirated games or non-existent "boycotting" will do it.

Sadly, simply selling games cheaper, DRM and all, would probably eliminate a huge percentage of the pirated game "problem". $50+ for a game? Obscene.

Re:Pipe Dream (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 3 years ago | (#35789054)

And the software makers know this. They know that they have a huge number of customers that will buy the games anyway, no matter the restrictions. As long as it's not too in-your-face they're happy. They'll lose the old school people who like to keep around games for a long time, but when most of the market just wants to play the game a few times with friends and then throw it away they won't care that they're only renting a game. Sometimes they'll even defend DRM by saying it's so convenient to download instead of going to the store.

Re:Pipe Dream (1)

MeateaW (1988688) | about 3 years ago | (#35789076)

you think $50 dollars is bad?

try paying $90+
($110 for xbox RRP).

Oh, sure its AUD, but we aren't 60 us cents to our dollar anymore, we are in fact 1.05 us buys 1 AUD as of yesterday.


Re:Pipe Dream (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789204)

...but in the end just go out and spend the money on the DRM infestation anyway because they don't want random warez possibly infecting them with something perhaps more offensive than DRM.

Sweet mercy, someone actually said it! THIS is what isn't being talked about. I used to be a rampant pirate until malware evolved from simple random malice into big business. Torrents are infested with all sorts of pests. Pirating a game is no longer a casual affair. It's dangerous, requires savvy and, frankly, far too much effort.

Services like Steam and GOG.com have further dissuaded me because if I wait long enough, that game will be discounted to an agreeable price. So which would I prefer? Spend $15-25 on a decent game from a reliable source or a few hours and risk my data being compromised?

"Sticking it to The Man" by pirating sounds really nice on paper, but it is neither morally defensible or prudent these days. What is so important or compelling about Game X that we're willing to cede the moral high ground along with our system security? It seems hypocritical to call DRM "malware" on the one hand while on the other wading into the warez cesspool. Instead, why don't we focus on investing our hard-earned scratch supporting distribution mediums, developers and even publishers that do right by the customer?

Ive pirated many games I bought (2)

bobjr94 (1120555) | about 3 years ago | (#35788738)

Registration servers down, requiring the disk be in the drive, etc...A quick trip to TPB for a cracked file and I can play with no hassles.

Re:Ive pirated many games I bought (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 3 years ago | (#35789144)

Disk in drive? Most of my computers don't even have a drive other than the hard drive. Really, what's the need? Install OS from a USB drive, download everything else. Why much software is still exclusively sold on CD/DVD is beyond me, honestly.

DRM (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788746)

Retail games:
* are dangerous. They can cause damage to your computer.
* are inconvenient. You can't back them up easily, they have ridiculous requirements like online activation or always online connection.
* don't work. They're made by hurried people who are trying to rush games out the door to grab your green.

Pirate games:
* are safe. The providers are out for kudos. Nobody gets kudos from a malware loaded or bugged release.
* are convenient. You can back them up however you like very simply. Restrictions described above are not in effect.
* work. People spend a great deal of time manipulating the game to work in the modified state, often better than how it was shipped at retail.

Re:DRM (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788768)

LOL at "pirate games are safe". Malware ridden keygens and cracks on usenet say otherwise. Of course, there's plenty of little nubbins infecting their system by saying it's AV false positives...

Re:DRM (1)

bertoelcon (1557907) | about 3 years ago | (#35788882)

LOL at "pirate games are safe". Malware ridden keygens and cracks on usenet say otherwise. Of course, there's plenty of little nubbins infecting their system by saying it's AV false positives...

It's a good thing most people don't use usenet then.

Re:DRM (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788954)

The same fucking thing happens on bittorrent and just about anything else p2p. Let's not be dense about this to make a non-point. It only makes you look like an obtuse ass.

Pirate if you will. But don't sit there and act like it's anyones fault but your own when you're rebuilding your system every fourth day because you're to cheap to put down 20 dollars to play Civ IV.

I really don't understand the gamers anymore. Most of them pirate, few of them could clean a virus off a system to save their lives. They're willing to put out a few grand for a gaming rig and a few hundred a year on top of that to ensure that they can get an extra 3 FPS from the latest game out there but refuse to pony up a 10th of that to keep their system running stable by buying the legit version. Then after that's all said and done they blame Microsoft for their own mistake of running an EXE that's 2 minutes off of some hackers site claiming that their AV is buggy and throwing out a false positive in order to combat piracy. As if Symantec gives a fuck about EA losing out on a sale.

These people are real works of art. The ultimate cynics who are too stupid to see the forest for the trees or too cheap for their own good. But you keep up with your crusade young man. You'll still be swimming in shit in 20 years like you are today and making up the same excuses and the rest of us will have moved on with our lives.

Re:DRM (2)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 3 years ago | (#35788938)

That's true if the user is a complete idiot. Typically, you'll be able to avoid most, if not all, viruses if you simply only download from trusted sources. The risk could still be there, but it will be minimal.

Re:DRM (4, Insightful)

billcopc (196330) | about 3 years ago | (#35789122)

I'll give you partial credit, it's true that the absurd number of AV false positives leads to desensitization, but that blame rests squarely on the AV developers for purposefully flagging anything that looks like a crack or keygen (seems to revolve around API calls for the odd-shaped windows and chiptune playback). That said, viruses are a rarity on "official" pirate channels, since it only takes one infected victim to warn all the others and get the uploader banned (or plonked). Of course, for those getting stuff second-hand from public sites like TPB or old-school p2p such as Limewire, that social enforcement does not apply.

The alternative is to rely on mainstream web sites such as the GameCopyWorld and MegaGames, which have been publishing No-CD cracks for over a decade, and while they have accidentally posted infected files in the past (rarely), they are quick to remove them once identified.

Also keep in mind that today's viruses are usually benign - annoying, but non-destructive - they install some fraudware to run on startup, which either hijacks passwords/financial info, or tries to sell you a fake anti-virus to remove the infection (again stealing your CC info). It's not like the ones we used to write in the Dos days, since back then we didn't have the internet, thus no way to courier stolen data back to the author, so most viruses would simply append themselves to every EXE or COM file and slowly corrupt your entire system out of sheer sociopathic boredom.

Re:DRM (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788784)

Retail games:
* are invasive. They often collect information surreptitiously and report it back to the publisher, using up your finite, paid-for connection resources.

Pirate games:
* are dormant. Distracting or wasteful behaviours will be nullified during modification. Even if this weren't the case, due to the removal of the requirement for an online tether, you can block the game from accessing the internet, so it couldn't phone home even if it wanted to.

Not news, just an advert (3, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 3 years ago | (#35788754)

I am a big fan of GOG.com, but I am not so blind to fail to notice that this whole article is just an advert for them. It is hardly "interesting to see them coming from an online game retail business" when that retail business is dedicated to non-DRM games!

I agree that intrusive DRM will drive some people to piracy, or at least stops people (like me) from buying the products (FU! EA). But I am not convinced that the number of customers lost would be more than the number gained by preventing casual piracy. DRM will never stop the dedicated pirates, it is more aimed at people who do not identify themselves as pirates but who just loan their discs to their mates.

Re:Not news, just an advert (5, Insightful)

proxy318 (944196) | about 3 years ago | (#35788880)

it is more aimed at people who do not identify themselves as pirates but who just loan their discs to their mates.

And what's wrong with that? My friends and I lend each other books, movies, etc. all the time. If I buy a game, why can't I lend it to a friend when I'm done playing it?

Re:Not news, just an advert (2)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 3 years ago | (#35789082)

If I buy a game, why can't I lend it to a friend when I'm done playing it?

That is fine. The problem the publishers have is when people share it before they are done playing it. We used to do that all the time back at school (in addition to completely pirated games). One copy would get used by dozens of people.

That said, they do also have problems with the lending afterwards (and the secondhand market), but that is a separate thing. Locking games to accounts and digital downloads is supposed to combat this. I find this practice to be completely unjustifiable. This is why I would never pay more than the secondhand price for anything that cannot be later sold by me. I try to never pay more than $5 for a game on services like Steam or Direct2Drive (unless it is an indie title who deserve the support).

Re:Not news, just an advert (1)

maugle (1369813) | about 3 years ago | (#35788892)

Not to knock GOG's stance on DRM (I agree wholeheartedly), but their position in the games market is a bit... unique. They specialize in selling games that have been out on the market for years. That is to say, anyone who has wanted to pirate those games has already done so, so their sales are hardly affected by piracy at all.

Re:Not news, just an advert (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788922)

Gog has also been selling a number of games recently that aren't old at all, despite their name.

Re:Not news, just an advert (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 3 years ago | (#35788946)

casual piracy

What does this even mean? Even someone who only has minimal knowledge of how to work a computer can figure out how to install a crack (especially considering that there's instructions). Yes, that may be slightly more difficult than just being able to copy the game and not having to install any cracks, but for someone who is planning on getting the game for free, I doubt that they'd care all that much about such a small hassle.

Re:Not news, just an advert (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 3 years ago | (#35788972)

Also, why shouldn't people be able to lend their games to others (which, if we're thinking of the same thing, isn't the same as allowing others to download it and copy the data)?

Re:Not news, just an advert (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 3 years ago | (#35789188)

I have found that some people can justify it to themselves that they are not doing anything wrong if they can install something on their drive as long as they don't have to crack it. It seems less illegal that way. After all, if all you do is just follow the standard install procedures, then how could that be wrong?

I have seen this plenty of times in business too. There have been many times when people have come into my office to get the MS Office discs so that they can install it on their kid's new laptop. They wouldn't come in and ask for a laptop, but they have no compunction about asking for the software. When they find out that they have to activate the software they go away - even if they have been told that they could crack this. Suddenly it doesn't seem like an innocent action to them.

Re:Not news, just an advert (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 3 years ago | (#35789168)

...this whole article is just an advert...

Heh, Good thing somebody else is noticing. This is becoming a very disturbing trend in front page submissions.

As for the submitter, very few comments for such an 'old' member. All his/her submissions go to the same site. Yep, sounds like a spammer..

Worse than Piracy (2)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 3 years ago | (#35788756)

I can't stand DRM, and piracy is too much of a PITA to bother. Games are not that valuable for me to pirate, hack, crack...whatever. No, I'll just go back to my old games I used to play 6+ years go. Still plenty of replay value in them.

Re:Worse than Piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788858)

Good idea. I'll just activate them on the... that's funny... it's not working.

What is the deal with software vendors nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788774)

Every cots package I buy either wants to sell me more shit via in-app crap, calls home constantly or is just annoying and a waste of time. I purchased some games for a present that required online activation..a year later I went to install it and the activation failed because the *reseller* of the game went out of business.

WTF even newer nero was loaded chalk full of crap the last time I looked... People need to stop being greedy and paranoid... I am doing my homework from now on before buying anything... Rediculous.

Piracy to dodge DRM vs. piracy to avoid paying (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788782)

If people were "against" piracy but felt driven to avoid DRMed products, wouldn't they buy the product in question and then pirate a DRM free copy?

I mean, the dilemma "Would you rather pay money and get a broken insecure piece of crap, or download a working cracked copy for free?" is a false one. You can pay money and then crack it. You can pay money, ignore your legally bought copy, and then pirate a copy. DRM might justify anti-DRM circumvention or piracy as the quickest means to do so, but it doesn't justify not paying in conjunction with however you choose to dodge the DRM.

Personally I have no problem with piracy, knock yourselves out, but DRM isn't driving anyone to piracy who isn't already okay with piracy from an ethical standpoint.

Re:Piracy to dodge DRM vs. piracy to avoid paying (1)

Unkyjar (1148699) | about 3 years ago | (#35788836)

Well, it appears that most of the comments are from people who bought a game and were annoyed that they also had to download DRM cracks.

So yes, many people do pay money and crack it.

Re:Piracy to dodge DRM vs. piracy to avoid paying (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 3 years ago | (#35789004)

You can pay money and then crack it.

And then you'd be supporting the company that used the DRM. By continuing to support them, it probably won't get better, and it may even eventually get worse.

but DRM isn't driving anyone to piracy who isn't already okay with piracy from an ethical standpoint.

Except people who think it would be worse to support DRM.

DRM drives me to buy console versions (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | about 3 years ago | (#35788786)

Which I think the developers know and don't mind much at all.

If I play it on a console I don't get malware on my PC.

I didn't buy Starcraft 2 because of the whole "you don't own it" issue.

I try not to buy games on Steam because the more games you buy on Steam, the more you stand to lose if Valve decides to cut your account off. If they cut you off because of a dispute over one game, you lose the ability to run all the games you "own". At least with other DRM schemes I don't stand to lose everything over one game, I might lose it but I can still run my other games.

Re:DRM drives me to buy console versions (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | about 3 years ago | (#35788950)

    Nah, that'd never happen...

    Well... Unless you were one of the victims of Stargate Resistance. Stargate Worlds was well publicized, and then put on the same dev cycle as Duke Nukem Forever. When Stargate Resistance came out, the general noise said that if there was enough interest, it would help push development on Worlds.

    I bought it soon after it came out. I found that for whatever reason, it would crash my computer. Nothing else would. Turned out it was some obscure bug in the video driver, and the current driver (and every upgrade from there) didn't work. Finally I found the solution, roll back to a much older driver, and the problem went away.

    I got about 12 hours of gameplay in over a couple months. Then the announcement came out. The game was no more. $19.99 for a dozen or hours of gameplay? Great.

    I really prefer knowing that I own a disk, and I can play all I want. If it has an online mode where I can play against other players, cool. But when the day comes that they don't support it any more, I can play offline as long as I want. And if my disk gets damaged or lost, ya, I can go download a copy and keep playing.

Re:DRM drives me to buy console versions (2)

tepples (727027) | about 3 years ago | (#35789118)

If I play it on a console I don't get malware on my PC.

Consoles have DRM to shut out unlicensed developers. A lot of indie developers are too small to qualify for a license. So do you just choose to shun games from developers without a console license? Or if not, how do you play these games?

I try not to buy games on Steam because the more games you buy on Steam, the more you stand to lose if Valve decides to cut your account off.

How is Xbox Live Arcade any different?

Bioware just dropped the ball this weekend (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788804)

DRM for the DLC of Dragon Age Origins has been preventing users from playing the game since Friday. The verification servers are having an issue preventing authorization. Still no fix in sight.

Meanwhile all of the pirates are playing without issues.

Steam (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788806)

Someone should tell Valve. I don't think they have noticed a big impact on Steam yet.

Pretty much correct (3, Informative)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about 3 years ago | (#35788816)

I have a friend who couldn't play some game -- I believe it was Assassin's Creed 2 -- because his internet is so unstable that he's lucky to have an uninterrupted connection for more than 15min. Unfortunately the game's DRM required a constant internet connection, and he got pretty fed up and decided to return the game. After a while he got around to trying a cracked version and was able to enjoy the full game without any interruptions. I think he just went straight to downloading for the next game they came out with, because he didn't feel like doing any research to find out if it had the same draconian DRM.

Then again, GoG's point of view is kind of skewed. The great majority of their games are cheap, making them easy impulse buys. Since they're mostly older I bet the majority of people buying them are nostalgic adults who're willing to pay for something they remember as being really great. I kind of doubt the lack of DRM factors much into the decision for most buyers.

Re:Pretty much correct (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789018)

I remember when Assassin's Creed 2 came out with the whole requiring constant internet connection thing. Ubisoft's servers went down for quite some time and nobody could get on to play. The pirated release, which disabled constant online activation, worked perfectly and Ubisoft's forumgoers knew it. Nothing quite says "screw you" to your customers by charging for a blatantly inferior product that pirates are releasing a better version of for free.

bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788824)

Too much DRM drives people to piracy, not enough allows it. You need to make it just difficult for the average person not to be able to copy it to their friends but not difficult enough that it will accidentally cause problems. You have to make it easier to be a paying customer rather than a pirate. That's all. Acting like DRM-free is the way to go is naive though.

I want to agree, I really do (3, Insightful)

Benfea (1365845) | about 3 years ago | (#35788828)

As a legitimate consumer, I hate DRM with a burning passion because I'm the one getting punished for the actions of pirates, while pirates get to enjoy a DRM-free experience. I want to believe this is true, but unfortunately, I cannot let myself engage in argument from consequence logical fallacies nor indulge in confirmation bias. I look at the evidence, and the evidence (to my knowledge) says that DRM-free games get pirated at about the same rate as DRM games.

Someone please prove me wrong.

Re:I want to agree, I really do (1)

fudoniten (918077) | about 3 years ago | (#35788998)

You might be right. I suspect it must be a bit higher, but probably not a lot. Well, and the difference would be made up of people who paid for the game, and then 'pirated' it anyway.

But, regardless, you're hassling your legitimate customers, to no avail. All it takes is one single cracked copy to become available, and the piracy rate will be exactly the same.

Re:I want to agree, I really do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789080)

I look at the evidence, and the evidence (to my knowledge) says that DRM-free games get pirated at about the same rate as DRM games.

Doesn't this mean that DRM isn't effective?

Re:I want to agree, I really do (1)

Elbereth (58257) | about 3 years ago | (#35789088)

I've heard anecdotal evidence to the contrary, from unrepentant pirates, saying that the only games they legitimately bought were DRM-free (usually quoting some trendy "indie" game of the month), but when those very same developers report that piracy is through the roof for their games (which are usually at bargain bin prices), it's hard to believe that any appreciable number of pirates really are buying the DRM-free games. Sure, some of them do. It's just that you constantly hear the same refrain from certain people: "Oh, I'd buy it if it weren't for the DRM", "I'd buy it if it were cheaper", "I'd buy it if it were ported to Linux" -- and I don't doubt that many of the people who say these things are being truthful -- but for the vast majority, it's just an easy rationalization for their entitlement complex.

That said, I'm glad that no-CD cracks are available. I fucking hate DRM. Too bad it's so difficult to keep casual pirates from pirating everything in sight.

Re:I want to agree, I really do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789090)

If DRM and no DRM are pirated at the same rate, doesn't that show you that the DRM is hurting consumers for no reason whatsoever?

Re:I want to agree, I really do (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | about 3 years ago | (#35789156)

Well. If you would buy it anyway, and its as easy to pirate either way, then why shouldn't the company be catering to people like you by having non DRM software?

Titel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788894)

My life story:

- I don't pay money for games with DRM. (And I do not pirate either).

- I agree downloading everything is stealing. The reason I am not entirely against piracy is because when I look at the money I spent the last 10 years on games, I spent around $1000 a year. The reason I spent 'only' $1000 a year on games is because I can not afford to buy more. But of all the games released during those 10 years, I probably bought less than 1% with that budget. I really think that kind of money should get me more games since I can't afford to pay for them anyway. I understand not giving away everything for free so as to give people an incentive to spend money, but why keep games away from people who have already spent all they could? Especially when what they spent was a quite large amount of money. This situation makes me think software is overpriced. For the past year I completely stopped buying regular price games (i.e. $40-$60).

- Games have no content anymore. I miss games where you could do almost everything, had plenty of options... If a game about spaceships was released in the early 90's, you had dozens of ships to choose from and hundreds of weapons. Plus a huge map, with dozens of galaxies, hundreds of systems and thousands of planets. You could probably explore both space and planet surfaces. The same game released today: "5 spaceships! 20 weapons! Hundreds of combinations!!!" and no planet exploration of course...
And look at all the FPS games released in the last 5 years - all CoD clones (and CoD was probably a clone of something else). Each new FPS game could improve on the old ones, for example: multiple bullet types (i.e. HP, piercing, tracer.,.) could be added, or I don't know, the option of customizing the pockets on your tactical vest... But no, each new game has to be like the previous ones. What's the point of even buying new games then? Oh yeah, the minor changes in gameplay.
Don't even get me started on modern health systems... Makes you wonder why PS3 fanbois complain GeoHot enabled cheating.

All these things put me off games in recent times.
Get me games with no DRM, games that are sold for half the price of today's games, and most of all games with loads of content and I'll start buying again. Guess what: right now, I buy my games on GoG. All games are less than $10, no DRM and since they're mostly 90's games they have lots more content than the CoD generation of players could ever dream of. The graphics aren't as shiny though, but I'm here to play, not watch a movie, so I don't mind the tradeoff one bit!
But get me a real game, with content, and I'll gladly pay $100 for it. Hell I might be willing to pay $200 if there's loads of content! With a game like that I'll have fun for ages, so well worth the investment.

This is so damn true (1)

FunkyRider (1128099) | about 3 years ago | (#35788896)

Last year I bought myself a copy of NFS Hot Pursuit as my own birthday present, pop it in, have it installed and run, Vola! Crash with some stupid error 0x0000006deadbeef. Surfing to figure out what the heck went wrong, there all kinds of solutions like disabling 3 out of 4 processor cores in the system, downgrading to 32-bit XP and other lame solutions, spent a whole afternoon and still couldn't get it running. I finally fed up and downloaded a no-DVD crack, all in a sudden the game runs without any problem! - problem = crash, constant DVD and internet check up and shit. But the game without network play is dull and boring, so delete + purge, sold the game on second hand market.

There's more to DRM than piracy (2)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 3 years ago | (#35788912)

According to Capcom the PC follow up to Street Fighter IV ,Super Street Fighter IV, was canceled because of lots of piracy. But the sales of SFIV were excellent on the PC. OTOH, there is a vibrant modding community giving away for free costumes and pallet swaps that Capcom charges $1-$3 a pop for...

Put another way, DRM == Control

ghd hair (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788974)

Make sure that your hair is dry when you use ghd hair as water and electricity don't go well together. There is a chance of your hair burning here too.

    The price is an important point to consider when buying GHD Hair Straighteners [ghd-hair-cheap.com]. There is no point in buying a very expensive hair straightener.

Chicken, or egg? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788980)

"Independent retro games retailer Good Old Games has spoken out about digital rights management, saying that it can actually drive gamers to piracy, rather than acting as a deterrent.

So which came first? The DRM or the piracy?

Personally don't agree so much (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35788984)

Whilst I, along with probably everyone else here, dislikes DRM, it probably doesn't mean much to your average consumer. They're more interested with playing their games than worrying about malware being installed or finding cracks to get the game working (which may also cause malware to be installed).

So as long as the DRM doesn't destroy the game, such as always requiring an internet connection when your connection is unstable, and in general rather "user friendly", I don't see it as a disincentive to most people. And yes, it does provide some disincentive against piracy since cracks rarely exist within a few days of a game's release, not to mention having to trawl through comments to ensure a pirated copy will actually work.

this is why I migrated to console (1)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | about 3 years ago | (#35788986)

This is one of the reason why I shifted my gaming activities to PS3. They can put any kind of DRM crap and limitations on my console as long as it works as intended.

Re:this is why I migrated to console (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789014)

Agreed, but I also extend my tolerance to Steam, because they really got it right. Auth servers that work, an offline mode that lasts weeks if not forever, and unencrypted game files you're free to tweak. They leave competitors like D2D in the dust.

What really yanks my chain is when I buy a game off Steam but the publisher still left THEIR crappy DRM in, and guess which one is broken crap. I used to think the whole "DRM drives piracy" thing was a lame justification, but then I repeatedly found myself grumbling "If I had warezed this game, it would be perfectly functional, but actually paying for it gave me a nonfunctional game."

Re:this is why I migrated to console (1)

geminidomino (614729) | about 3 years ago | (#35789036)

They can put any kind of DRM crap and limitations on my [PS3] as long as it works as intended.

Wow. Of any of the options you could've named, it's funny you went with that one...

Re:this is why I migrated to console (1)

tepples (727027) | about 3 years ago | (#35789138)

This is one of the reason why I shifted my gaming activities to PS3.

Say you read about an interesting video game. The graphics aren't as detailed as those of a typical PC game, but the game rules are innovative. Then you find out it's available for PC but not for PS3. Do you just shun the game?

Plus ca change... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789046)

1995: "I don't want to install a pirated game, who knows what malware came with it?"
2011: "I don't want to install a non-pirated game, who knows what malware came with it?"

I generally download a game, try it for a day, then go buy it or get rid of it depending on whether it's good or not. Any legal system that says this is wrong needs to check its premises and not bother me until they have done so.

too late... (5, Interesting)

dhaines (323241) | about 3 years ago | (#35789048)

DRM didn't drive me to pirate games, it drove me to give up gaming entirely.

Even on a console, the hassles were just too much.

Game publishers think they're in the game business. They're in the fun business. If they figure out how to sell hassle-free fun on any of my several mainstream computing platforms, I will give them money. But the longer they fail, the less likely they are to ever interest me again.

Re:too late... (1)

adolf (21054) | about 3 years ago | (#35789148)

So have you given up on fun or moved onto other endeavors that you consider fun?

Bad advertising drives gamers to piracy.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789070)

Do you remember GOG's stunt a while back where they acted like they were shutting down but then just redid their website? And that this is an ad for them, as previously noted. I refuse to buy from them after such a ridiculous stunt.

This is easy to prove (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789084)

How many here have bought a game and cracked it after purchase anyway, while otherwise still using it legally (aka, not giving it to a friend or anything, just keeping it on the shelf))?

Re:This is easy to prove (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789116)

Out of curiosity... are you an FBI agent, looking for Slashdot visitors possibly guilty of copyright controls circumvention under the DMCA?

Can't agree anymore, been saying this for years. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789134)

Completely agree, the amount of hoops you have to jump through these days to play a legitimate game is astounding, it's actually less effort than getting the cracked version. In fact, recently I bought Bulletstorm and couldn't get windows live games to work, so I had to download the cracked version to play the game. I'm happy to support People Can Fly because they gave me Painkiller, but honestly, that's ridiculous.

Though none of these problems arise when using Steam, love Steam, if I can't get a game on there, I just don't buy it.

Same Bride of Frankenstein arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35789162)

"DRM, Baaaddddd"

"Free, Gooodddddd"

Can we just mod every DRM post as redundant since there are rarely any original arguments. It's always my daily Groundhog Day moment.

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