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Fellow Hackers Blast Geohot For Sony Settlement

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the can't-please-everyone dept.

Hardware Hacking 310

RedEaredSlider writes "The hacker who settled with Sony after the company sued him for modifying his PlayStation 3 console is getting a lot of flak for not taking the fight further. 'Night Breed' [wrote], 'So basically you settled for a job and took people's money, giving them a false hope of settling for their rights? What do you plan to do with the money that was donated to you to provide a cushion for the legal battle? I hope you will be paying all those people back since you obviously didn't live up to your word.'"

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this is a (2)

Bozzio (183974) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793796)

DramaFest.

Re:this is a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793854)

It's a little bit sad and funny actually. Pirates and hackers always say that if they get caught, they'll fight and never disclose anything. Well, when they do, everyone will. It's only then when they notice there's a lot more to do with your life than fight it. It's just stupid that everyone believes they will fight.

Re:this is a (5, Insightful)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793980)

Idealistic people tend to spend a lot of time being confused about how to deal with reality, which is not the slightest bit idealistic. When it's someone else's painful consequences, ideals rule. When it's your own, well, different story. Lots of people will jump in with accusations of "selling out", "siding with the man", etc. That's all pretty much delusional though.

Re:this is a (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794252)

I disagree, Geohot is a complete dumb ass if he didn't see the lawsuit coming. If you're going to kick the hornet's nest you're going to get stung, and caving in on something like this is stupid. Geohot made himself a pinata and apparently hasn't the integrity to stand up.

Remember Sony took away the otheros feature in response to that initial crack that he refused to release after posting about it online.

Nobody forced him to do that, he voluntarily made himself a target in all this.

Misleading (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794000)

Hotz didn't "settle for a job" and it's assumed that he is going to donate remaining legal funds to the EFF. What some misinformed blog commenter says is irrelevant.

Re:Misleading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794072)

What some misinformed blog commenter says is irrelevant.

Well, congratulations, you've just consigned all of Slashdot to irrelevance.

Re:Misleading (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794134)

Since when was Slashdot relevant to anything? Well, other than this. [nig.gr]

Re:Misleading (1)

Linsaran (728833) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794180)

Warning Goatse Link, I'd mod down if I had mod points

Re:Misleading (2)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794232)

You seriously clicked on the link pointing to the nig.gr domain?

Re:Misleading (1)

cobrausn (1915176) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794358)

I'm more surprised that he clicked on any link in the comments, especially a shortened URL.

Re:Misleading (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794488)

it's assumed that he is going to donate remaining legal funds to the EFF

Assumptions are always dangerous, especially when a lot of money is involved. Will he donate all of it, some of it, of none of it? We'll likely never have anything better than his word on what he did with the money. And that has an even more damning effect on these sorts of cases in the future, since people will be much more reluctant to donate to someone else's case after this guy sold out and took the money (even if it's just some of the money, even if it's just *allegations* that he pocketed some of the money).

Re:this is a (4, Insightful)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794348)

It's a bunch of whining from a bunch of neckbeards who are crying that someone else didn't spend godawful amounts of time and money in court. They'd be singing a different tune if they were the one on the other end of Sony's lawyers.

Re:this is a (3, Informative)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794568)

Actually it's pretty freakin accurate. He gave up to just get the lawsuit over, and took substantial hits to his own freedoms.

Geohot essentially "won", but the settlement was a joke, especially considering it roughly translates to him accepting an unrealistic permanent injunction. Really, not supporting "PS3 infringing activities" that aren't specified? Say it ain't so!

1. Engaging in any unauthorized access to any SONY PRODUCT under the law
      2. Engaging in any unauthorized access to any SONY PRODUCT under the terms of any SCEA or SCEA AFFILIATES' license agreement or terms of use applicable to that SONY PRODUCT, whether or not Hotz has accepted such agreement or terms of use, including without limitation:
                  1. reverse engineering, decompiling, or disassembling any portion of the Sony Product
                  2. using any tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism in the Sony Product;
                  3. using any hardware or softare to cause the Sony Product to accept or use unauthorized, illegal or pirated softare or hardware; and
                  4. exploiting any Sony Product to design, develop, update or distribute unauthorized softare or hardware for use with the Sony Product.
                    * If any term of such SCEA or SCEA Affilates' license agreement or terms of use applicable to that Sony Product shall be determined by Congress or by a court of law in a final non-appealable decision in an action to which SCEA or an SCEA Affiliate is a party to be illegal and unenforceable, then such term shall not be binding on Hotz.
      3. CIRCUMVENTING any of the TPMs or security in any SONY PRODUCT;
      4. TRAFFICKING in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof that, at the time of Hotz's trafficking, circumvents any of the TPMs or security in any SONY PRODUCT, including but not limited to the Ellptical Curve Signature Algorithm ("ECDSA") Keys, encryption and/or decryption keys, dePKG firmware decrypter program, Signing Tools, 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak, and/or any other technologies that enable unauthorized access to and/or copying of the PS3 System and/or enable compatibility of unauthorized copies of other copyrighted works with the PS3 System.
      5. Distributing or posting any SCEA or SCEA Affiliates' confidential or proprietary information relating to any SONY PRODUCT;
      6. Knowingly assisting or inducing others to engage in any of the conduct set forth in A-E above solely directed at any SONY PRODUCT or that otherwise constitutes contributory liabilty under the law.

He had this case in the bag from the issues at hand, and instead settled giving Sony a major advantage. The facts were on his side bigtime unless there is something we don't know about.

Re:this is a (3, Informative)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794652)

The main complaint is that he was asking for donations to fight this, and then more or less bailed on the fight. That's the only valid complaint in my opinion, then again, we don't know if and how much money was raised. It pays to be wary of donating to a legal defense fund, you can't be certain it will be spent the way you want it to be spent.

Inevitable but maybe a good thing (4, Informative)

Anrego (830717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793810)

Much as I think this battle needs to be fought geohot is an attention seeking ass, and it’s a shame he was the one who was slated fight it.

I think it’s actually a blessing in disguise that he decided to save his own skin. Not saying I wouldn’t do the same, I’ll admit it, when it comes to me or the greater good I’ll go with me and screw everyone else. However there are lots of noble idealists types who would fight themselves in prison and then keep at it and that’s who needs to be fighting this thing, not some annoying jackass.

As for donations wasn’t the plan for unused (so in this case, most of it) money to go to the EFF.

And just cause I’m already pseudo flamewar-ing, we really don’t need another Kevin Mitnick in the world.

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (4, Insightful)

Higaran (835598) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794064)

I agree, in theory I'd love to take on sony with this kind of thing. But when the shit hits the fan and you have a lawyer telling you that you could lose your house and everything you've worked your whole life for then your I'd probably save my own skin too. Anyone that says the guy didn't do enough is an idiot, and they can only say that because they've never been anywhere near that kind of a situation. Companies like $ony have armies of laywers and will look for loopholes that would probably include lawsuits for anyone you've ever met your entire life, no one need that kind of hassle in thier lives. So I think everyone should just let the guy be, he's been trough enough already, and what he did do is alot more than most people.

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (5, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794306)

All of what you say is entirely reasonable (with the possible exception of $ony [penny-arcade.com] ), but it discounts the context; Hotz said [geohot.com] , when taking donations: "...this case isn't about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren't afraid to stand up for them." and "My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back.".

He talked big, he took money, and then he shied away when he realised that Sony could quite possibly crush him. I think it's disgusting that they can do so, and I think it's quite understandable that he didn't want to take the risk, but the fact remains that he was fairly misleading in what he said. It wasn't "please help me survive until I can make Sony leave me alone" it was "fuck them, I'm fighting back, I'll make them pay, and I want you to help". I don't really blame him for backing down, but I do think those who donated have a reasonable right to feel aggrieved, and some level of apology and explanation from Hotz would probably be appropriate.

I couldn't wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794316)

Let's say instead of GeoHut, it is a certain foreign citizen. Let's say Chinese citizen. No assets in the USA, but backed by major government officials in China.

Now if Sony did the same thing to the hypothetical person, we can sit back and enjoy the show. Because Sony will lose all the way, when the Chinese president call the White House and say: "Tell Sony to drop this BS, or we will call back ALL Treasury bonds". When that day comes, DMCA will be repealed quickly, and a new patent/copyright reform will come.

Or, the USA can always print $1 trillion and pay back the Chinese. Then we will have inflation -> Civil War -> Constitution suspended -> No DMCA.

Re: we really don’t need another Kevin Mitni (1)

e-berlin.org (1796296) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794140)

Thousands of Mitnicks is exactly what we need.

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (1)

NoAkai (2036200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794244)

Maybe I'm stupid for taking the bait, but what's wrong with Mitnick all of a sudden?

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (1)

cpscotti (1032676) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794256)

<quote><p>And just cause I&rsquo;m already pseudo flamewar-ing, we really don&rsquo;t need another Adrian Lamo in the world.</p></quote>
That's the real jackass!
That's the one screwing everyone else!

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (1)

rockman_x_2002 (1791612) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794354)

I didn't send any money to the cause and have remained neutral, although I have certainly voiced my opinion concerning the fair use of products purchased and owned by end-users for the purpose the end-user wants to use it for. Though I did not provide funds to this cause, I do have opinions on the money that has been donated, and what my wishes would be had I sent him money.

First of all, I do NOT think Hotz has a right to keep the money for himself. That would be quite dishonest and untrustworthy. Instead, I would rather see the extra money donated to the EFF with the earmark that it be used to fund the defense of similar cases like Sony vs. Hotz. I think that would be a satisfactory action as it would allow the donation money to still be used for what it was intended for by someone that should find need for it, even if it isn't used by the original defendant who requested the funds for his legal expenses (in this case, Hotz).

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794540)

People will always suspect that he pocketed some or all of the money. That will cast a cloud on donating to similar cases in the future. There is no silver lining here. GeoHot has made it a lot harder for people in the future to defend themselves against Sony and other thugs on hacking hardware.

Armchair Hackers (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793834)

It's easy to criticize GeoHot when you're not the one being sued by one of the largest corporations in the world. I feel bad for GeoHot, it seems like no matter what he does and how he tries to help -- and make no mistake, he has helped immensely on many projects -- he keeps getting blasted by haters.

Re:Armchair Hackers (4, Informative)

halivar (535827) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793958)

The best part is how the haters aren't the ones who were being sued. They have no vested interest, and nothing to lose. Screw them.

Re:Armchair Hackers (4, Insightful)

cptdondo (59460) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794024)

+1

Next time you're looking down the barrel of a gun, or at a multi-billion dollar company out to crush you, tell me how brave you're going to be.

It's easy to watch an action flick and say "I can do that" and another thing not to shit yourself when you hear the bullet whiz by before you hear the crack of the rifle.

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

Surt (22457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794226)

If you watch an action flick and think, I can do that, I have news for you, you're wrong. At least for every single action flick I've seen, there is a significant percentage of physical impossibilities.

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

cptdondo (59460) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794296)

If you watch an action flick and think, I can do that, I have news for you, you're wrong..

Ever read the darwin awards?

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

bberens (965711) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794318)

Depends on whether it was civil or criminal. If it's criminal I'd sell out. If it's civil once you declare bankruptcy then it should be all over. You usually get to keep your house and cars in bankruptcy.

Re:Armchair Hackers (2)

cptdondo (59460) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794344)

Depends on the state. In SC you get to keep a mattress. Seriously. Still, a bankrupcy will fuck up your life for at least 7 years. No decent job, no college, no rentals, no credit cards, no checking account. You wanna live like that?

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

bberens (965711) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794512)

Something tells me that the guy who made international news by cracking the [insert well known product] isn't going to have that hard of a time finding a decent consulting job.

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794528)

no checking account? I think you went a bit far, there. CREDIT, yes. checking, no, that's not based on credit. you deposit funds in a checking account. if you have funds, any bank will take you as a customer.

Re:Armchair Hackers (1)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794132)

The best part is how the haters aren't the ones who were being sued. They have no vested interest, and nothing to lose.

Isn't that usually the case?

Re:Armchair Hackers (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794632)

It's easy to criticize GeoHot when you're not the one being sued by one of the largest corporations in the world. I feel bad for GeoHot, it seems like no matter what he does and how he tries to help -- and make no mistake, he has helped immensely on many projects -- he keeps getting blasted by haters.

Perhaps geohot keeps getting blasted by haters because he makes himself so easy to hate, as he is, in fact, a douchebag.

The legal documents pertaining to his case read like some sort of self-aggrandizing group wank, referring to himself as a "prodigy" of some sort. Sorry, but George is a prodigy in no field other than taking the LEGO Bricks that other hackers have so kindly molded for him, then popping them together and subsequently claiming that not only did he build the entire model from scratch, he painstakingly molded the plastic using rainbows and sunshine, and wrote the manual using calligraphy on papyrus.

Need I point out that it wasn't until Team Twiizers complained - and rightly so - that geohot was taking 100% of the credit for the Jailbreak exploit that he finally acknowledged on his site that maybe he didn't do it single-handedly? Then, after beating his chest to every media outlet that would listen about how HE was the one who completely blew open the PS3, he got sued by Sony - I call it karmic justice, if not legal or moral - and suddenly he's every hacker's favorite martyr, with everyone happily glossing over the fact that it was Team Twiizers that figured out the key exploit in the first place.

The simple fact of the matter is that geohot is nothing more than an attention-seeking douchebag who, when required to face consequences for his actions - something apparently foreign to people under the age of 25 nowadays - ran *screaming* to a lawyer with his Backpedal-O-Meter burying the needle at the far end of the scale.

He is scum, plain and simple, and I would have not lost a blink of sleep if he found himself rotting in the modern equivalent of debtor's prison until the heat death of the universe. He blatantly rips off other peoples' research without giving credit, he tries to portray himself as some utterly transparent martyr, and when it comes to put-up-or-shut-up, he doesn't even have the stones to try to defend his sand castle against the incoming tide.

At the end of it all, though, I suppose I got what *I* want out of the entire thing - he gets to shut the hell up about this whole PS3 debacle and Team Twiizers is unaffected by Sony's suit, so the real hackers behind it all can continue doing what they've been doing, and the loud-mouthed con artist gets gagged.

To the EFF (5, Informative)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793838)

Wasn't it pointed out in the last GeoHot story several times that unused donations would be sent on over to the EFF?

Re:To the EFF (1)

Surt (22457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794026)

Mod parent up, and for god's sake add that to the story headline.

Re:To the EFF (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794078)

The problem is that people didnt donate to him so that he could settle with sony. people donated because it was a fight to set a precident and they were lead to believe by Geohot that he was going to fight $ony until the end. now people have less $$ in their accounts and nothing to show for it.

Re:To the EFF (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794210)

now people have less $$ in their accounts and nothing to show for it.

A fool and his money are quickly parted.

If you donate $5 to help with legal fees, cry me a river when the guy decides "screw this I'm settling". He fought it for a while, then came to the conclusion it's not worth 10 years of his life fighting tooth and nail against Das Sony and its regiment of goosestepping lawyers. If he's been upfront that the rest of the funds would go to the EFF and he follows through, you have no right to complain. You donated money for a cause, you didn't buy anything.

Re:To the EFF (1)

tophermeyer (1573841) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794502)

Seriously.

People are surprised to hear that a guy who was relying on donations to pay his legal fees took the opportunity to settle before going to trial. Film at 11.

Re:To the EFF (1)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794174)

I have no clue how much money was donated to date. But with the deep pockets Sony has to pay lawyers, I can image going up against them could burn through a hell of a lot of cash in short order. If he had to go through 10's of thousands of dollars just to settle this, he may have come to the conclusion that it was not financially possible to win.

Re:To the EFF (2)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794646)

Right, his lawyer told him to settle. That's the wisest move. The law isn't like it is in the movies where the young guy challenges the status quo and wins. In real life, the status quo sues you to oblivion and 80% of your check is garnished for the rest of your days.

Corporations have too much power. Fighting them in court doesn't work as they more or less write the laws they're attacking you with. Change the laws. Regulate corporations tighter.

Re:To the EFF (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794598)

donations would be sent on over to the EFF

So he claims. But how will we ever know if some of it didn't end up in his pocket? I won't be donating to any of these cases in the future, not after this. I don't want to ass-clown to fold without even a fight, pocketing some or all of the money I gave him to defend himself.

Settlement terms confidential (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793886)

IMO before jumping to conclusions, we should wait to see what happens in the next firmware updates or announcements, since the settlement terms are confidential, Geohot might have won something and Sony doesn't want it public.

Re:Settlement terms confidential (1)

cybersquid (24605) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793970)

Oh, like maybe OtherOS will return? I would like that.
So would Sony. I used to buy DLC & rent video via PSN.
That was before their feature-stealing "upgrade" was required to let me log in.
Of course, so far Sony has been too stupid to know whats actually in their own best interests.

Re:Settlement terms confidential (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794100)

They aren't quite so confidential (even though they are supposed to be). Someone linked to the leaked settlement in the previous story about this.

Re:Settlement terms confidential (2)

NewWorldDan (899800) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794166)

More likely George won the right to not be bankrupt and spend the next 6 years dealing with ongoing litigation. Anyone who faults him for cutting his losses is an asshole.

Re:Settlement terms confidential (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794586)

he BEGGED for donations with the express understanding it was a 'fight the good fight' battle.

he exited far too soon for many of us (yes, I did donate and I have never even SEEN the gaming system he hacks about; I don't game and have no interest in it at all). I did support the freedom aspects of his fight and he basically gave up instantly and without any real fight.

if he had not involved the community, that would have been one thing; but he stood up and said 'I will fight this!'.

and yet, he didn't.

so, he's no hero, he's just a regular schlub like you and I. nothing *wrong* with that, but he's lost his hero status, fwiw.

Who Cares What Night Breed Says? (0)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793896)

We wanna know what The Midnight Avenger has to say! And what about Captain L33t Hxx00rz? Hey, fire me an e when Pixel Grrrl weighs in with an opinion, 'kay? "Night Breed"? Get serious! And what happened to The Crimson Unix, he retire already?

sheesh...

Re:Who Cares What Night Breed Says? (1)

GodricL (1898284) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793956)

This just in from a true Hacker, Captain Midnight "$12.95/month? No Way!"

Drama aside, (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793914)

there are some legitimate concerns as to what will be done w/ the money people donated to his legal fund.

Also, this whole thing isn't going to forgotten any time soon. Much less in the hacking community. Is it entirely possible Geohot could be black-balled? Is he now considered plagued and 'dirty'? Will Hacking in close circles to him put you in the cross-hairs of Sony, and the other media giants?

Either way, since it doesn't look like he can explain himself due to the settlement restrictions, he's certainly made his bed. Let's see how well he sleeps.

Re:Drama aside, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793994)

are you dumb? its been published that he'll give un used donations to the EFF since day 1 of this legal deal. hold on i'll answer that first question for you. yes you are.

Re:Drama aside, (2)

Surt (22457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794050)

There are no legitimate concerns about what will be done with excess donations to his legal fund since he made that clear from the beginning.

Gimme a break... (0, Troll)

Essequemodeia (1030028) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793920)

An indignant hacker? What's next? Shoplifters of the world uniting?

Re:Gimme a break... (2)

epdp14 (1318641) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794046)

An indignant hacker? What's next? Shoplifters of the world uniting?

You sir have no idea what hacking is. Hacking is not stealing, hacking is exploring and creating new uses for devices and software. Pirating is what you are referring to. The "hackers" that are following an internet HOWTO that walks them through downloading ripped PS3 games are nothing more than cheapskates costing the rest of us useful tools like OtherOS.

Re:Gimme a break... (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794182)

An indignant hacker? What's next? Shoplifters of the world uniting?

You sir have no idea what hacking is. Hacking is not stealing, hacking is exploring and creating new uses for devices and software. Pirating is what you are referring to. The "hackers" that are following an internet HOWTO that walks them through downloading ripped PS3 games are nothing more than cheapskates costing the rest of us useful tools like OtherOS.

Sandra Bullock is a hacker, right? Hackers are so cool. And l88t.

Re:Gimme a break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794408)

Sandra Bullock

I'd hack that until I could no longer move.

Re:Gimme a break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794436)

An indignant hacker? What's next? Shoplifters of the world uniting?

You sir have no idea what hacking is. Hacking is not stealing, hacking is exploring and creating new uses for devices and software. Pirating is what you are referring to.

Arrr me hearty, thee clearly has no idea what pirating is. Pirating is not copying, pirating is boarding vessels in the ocean, taking all their booty and raping the cabin boys! Cracking is what he was referring to.

--an indignant pirate

Re:Gimme a break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794470)

Only in your tiny undereducated world.

You live in the Fox-News defined Hacker... the ones that are evil and try to steal your Credit card numbers to that $200.00 secured visa you have.

In reality Hackers are people that hack hardware and software to make it do something it shouldn't. The guys that run "MAKE" magazine all call themselves hackers, Adam Savage calls himself a Hacker, Every single person that does something outside of the box is a hacker.

Just because your education stopped at Glenn Becks Introduction to language 100 is not our ptroblem..

Let me guess, you also believe that we dont know how the tide works, it comes in and goes out, never a miscommunication.....

Idiot, sorry let me take that back.... FUCKING 62IQ IDIOT....

Half and half (1)

YodasEvilTwin (2014446) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793924)

Keeping the money would be a dick move, he should return it. But anyone who says they'd take Sony on one-on-one and end up with insane legal fees is either a liar or an idiot.

Re:Half and half (1)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793968)

There's people like that everywhere. Idiots who tell you that you should go scream at your boss and demand more money and a promotion. They'll be nowhere near you to help and will deny giving you the idea when asked, of course. The smart thing to do is to pick your fights carefully, and GeoHotz is that smart, clearly.

Re:Half and half (2)

Surt (22457) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794068)

He should do exactly what he said he'd do with any money not used in his legal defense. If you didn't know what that was before you donated, you really should have read the donation web page.

Re:Half and half (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794326)

Let's just say that I am less likely to give any money away if I can't reasonably expect the desired result. In this case, a resolution, either way. This is a little like the present political scene in DC right now with all the appeasement.

I think something was found in discovery that he wants to keep off the record. Or Sony offered a very good deal to keep something they want kept off the record, in which case I would very quick to condemn the settlement.

Re:Half and half (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794582)

So he does something, get's sued and ends up not paying a dime out of his own pocket.

It's scumbaggy because nobody would have donated a dime if he said "I'm hoping for a settlement". It's his own fault for stroking his own ego and making sure he could be identified. He knew that Sony would be on him like bees. A smart move would be to release this crap anonymously or under a unconnected pseudonym that took care to not leave footprints to follow. So total out of pocket costs to him is ZERO plus a nice tax deduction for a donation to the EFF.

That is where the scumbaggyness comes in.

P.S. all you idiots that think your friends "got your back", they don't. they will throw you under the bus fast to save their own hide. This whole situation is a perfect example of this.

geohot vs. EFF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793948)

Don't forget geohot is just another guy. Once he returns the donations, he's off the hook.

If the EFF has guts, they publish the keys and code he create so far, then e-mail Sony with the urls and ask if they mind (and if they don't to call the EFF lawyers).

David V Goliath (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35793950)

Its easy to criticize the guy over bailing out but would you really have the stones to got 10 rounds with Sony in a court room ?
Hes just some random hacker in the eyes of everyone in power, The likely outcome of that case is Sony wins and geohot ends up broke and unemployable or in jail.
The reality is that time and time again the courts are backing big business in mod cases like this. If i was geohot I would have published the hack under and alias.

Re:David V Goliath (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794340)

You don't think that perhaps he should have considered that before he claimed credit for that initial exploit? I can understand getting scared, but what sort of dumb ass posts the encryption key under his own name and then goes on various shows talking about it?

He more or less sank his own case, but at the same point, what sort of an idiot thinks that they can get away with that sort of crap when you're up against a corporation that thinks rootkitting a few million people is a reasoned response to piracy?

Re:David V Goliath (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794606)

You cant go to jail from being sued. he did not break any laws, this is a lawsuit not a criminal case.

Re:David V Goliath (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794640)

You cant go to jail from being sued. he did not break any laws, this is a lawsuit not a criminal case.

This point really needs to be beaten into the slashdot hivemind more. Always seems to be at least one

Settlement terms confidential (0)

Capeman (589717) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793974)

IMO before jumping to conclusions, we should wait to see what happens in the next firmware updates or announcements, since the settlement terms are confidential, Geohot might have won something and Sony doesn't want it public.

If they want a fight... (5, Insightful)

mseeger (40923) | more than 3 years ago | (#35793992)

If they want a fight, they are invited to post the secret key on their own web site (including a manual how to use it), add their contact details and wait for Sony (or their lawyers) to come for them. Then they can show how brave they are...

CU, Martin

If GH's work and code is in the wild... (4, Insightful)

gatkinso (15975) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794002)

...then the whole settlement is moot.

Re:If GH's work and code is in the wild... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794052)

...then the whole settlement is moot.

And someone else can pick up the battle

Re:If GH's work and code is in the wild... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794266)

...then the whole settlement is moot.

And someone else can pick up the battle

somebody Anonymous.

Re:If GH's work and code is in the wild... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794474)

Moot? What's 4chan got to do with this?

Re:If GH's work and code is in the wild... (1)

matt_gaia (228110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794602)

That would be all well and good, had FW 3.60 not closed (well, more like side-stepped) the issue of the key released by GH. Anyone staying on a CFW based on 3.56 and below will be fine, for now, until the newer games start requiring 3.6, including it's authentication methods.

That's really stupid. (1)

thisisauniqueid (825395) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794014)

That's really stupid. It's his life. He now has the legal system off his back as opposed to landing in prison for what should never have classified as a crime under any legal system.

Re:That's really stupid. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794168)

When does civil court land you in prison?

Re:That's really stupid. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794292)

By owing a lot of money you cannot pay in several lifetimes?

Re:That's really stupid. (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794628)

WE dont have debtors prison, what backward country do you live in?

Re:That's really stupid. (0)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794334)

When you refuse to put your penis away.

A possibility (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794028)

Geohot can't talk much about why he settled, but his replies on his blog [blogspot.com] suggests a plausible reason: he realized he was unlikely to win the case (suggesting that the judge was biased) and chose to settle to avoid setting a legal precedent.

Re:A possibility (1)

turtledawn (149719) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794090)

+1 informative

Re:A possibility (0)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794220)

suggesting that the judge was biased

Or that the legal realities don't match up so well to the fevered dreams of hackers everywhere.

I actually have trouble understanding why hackers just completely lose their shit when the law is involved. It's an interesting and complex system that any real hacker should relish understanding and, well, hacking. Instead we get trite bullshit like "the judge was biased".

The Hans Reiser threads here were epic with complete mental shutdowns on the part of /. commenters. I actually argued with a linux kernel dev who refused to accept the verdict even after Reiser led the police to the body, because he couldn't understand how a guilty verdict was reached in the trial. He actually said "the investigation was flawed, and couldn't logically produce Reiser as a suspect, therefore the trial was flawed and the guilty verdict wrong."

Re:A possibility (2)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794372)

I actually have trouble understanding why hackers just completely lose their shit when the law is involved. It's an interesting and complex system that any real hacker should relish understanding and, well, hacking.

Wrong because of what you said shortly thereafter:

I actually argued with a linux kernel dev who refused to accept the verdict even after Reiser led the police to the body, because he couldn't understand how a guilty verdict was reached in the trial. He actually said "the investigation was flawed, and couldn't logically produce Reiser as a suspect, therefore the trial was flawed and the guilty verdict wrong."

"Hacking" the legal system doesn't work if the judge doesn't care. Yes, maybe the judge should release you on a technicality that you cleverly discovered, but if he/she doesn't, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

"Hacking" a system is only possible when it always follows its own rules. Judges are allowed to make up the interpretations of rules as they go. It's called setting precedent.

Re:A possibility (1)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794558)

Judges are allowed to make up the interpretations of rules as they go. It's called setting precedent.

Setting precedent only happens when the judge is ruling on something not covered either by existing law or prior precedent. They don't get to just make shit up. And if they do, there's several layers of appeals courts that routinely revisit and overturn the rulings of judges.

"Hacking" a system is only possible when it always follows its own rules.

The legal system does follow its own rules, which allow for a degree of discretion among all participants to judge and act for themselves because it fundamentally recognizes that human affairs can't be reduced to something as a logical as a processor design.

So I guess that's it. Hackers have trouble dealing with the legal system because they can't handle the apparent ambiguity of the process and the results.

Re:A possibility (2)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794368)

Geohot can't talk much about why he settled, but his replies on his blog [blogspot.com] suggests a plausible reason: he realized he was unlikely to win the case (suggesting that the judge was biased) and chose to settle to avoid setting a legal precedent.

Can we replace "unlikely to win the case" to "unlikely to leave the court room without being at least bankrupt, if not worse"? As an individual, it's no good if you "win" a case if it costs you money that you cannot afford to spend. And I don't think that he got donations that are enough to pay the cost of a good lawyer. Plus the risk of losing the case, which might have happened whether he was guilty or not.

Who wants to stick to their guns.. (1)

andycal (127447) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794060)

and demand that the all the facts be put on the table and have a court decide, where there is no reason to expect that a court would actually side with the facts? He was right to settle. As much as I wish Sony could be forced to publicly admit they were wrong, Geohot was right to settle. The fact that Sony offered such a weak settlement, exposes either how weak the case really was..... or how much they figured it would cost them to buy the verdict they wanted.

LokiTorrent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794098)

Not sure if anyone will remember Lowkee from Lokitorrent [wikipedia.org] - and his "I will fight the system, donate money to me, I will take them all on" who then promptly gave the money to the MPAA and legged it. Good ole Edward Webber.

Get off your high horses (5, Insightful)

timholman (71886) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794126)

What, so people are disappointed that Geohot didn't wreck his life to fulfill their armchair fantasies? "I gave you $20, and you won't ruin your life to make me happy? You SUCK, Geohot!"

Get real. I've had some dealings in civil cases, and let me say that there are few things in this world as life-destroying and gut-wrenching as being a defendant in a civil case against a plaintiff with lots of money and a willingness to do whatever it takes to crush you.

It is very easy for people with l33t nicknames to criticize Geohot behind the safety of an anonymous computer account. It is another to sit in a room with a group of highly paid lawyers who explain to you in excruciating detail how your life will be made a living hell if you don't cooperate.

Geohot got in over his head, and wisely decided to settle and get on with his life. If Geohot's critics want to fight the good fight instead, all they have to do is repost his techniques on a web page of their own, and wait for Sony to come calling. Somehow I don't think that's gonna happen.

Re:Get off your high horses (1)

cjav (1331511) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794322)

I see your point, but wasn't Geohot himself who asked for the my $10 cause he would fight? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for him to get out of the living hell he was getting into, in my case I just want Geohot to give the unused money to the EFF as others pointed out and we can call it a day.

Get Hotz off his high horse first. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794338)

Get Hotz off the high horse first, then.

No offense - but wasn't it Hotz himself that went into this with a battle cry and asked for donations for his defense and so forth and so on?
If he hadn't done that - if he had "wisely decided" to immediately go for a settlement, people might have still called him a pussy (as that's what some people do) - but at least they wouldn't have much reason for calling him out on his behavior.

Don't forget that even after this settlement, he's still essentially claiming victory. All he has to do, according to the court PDF, is:
- pay his own costs
- don't hack playstation stuff again
- stop distributing playstation hack stuffs ..and that's it. Which, of course, means he's free to call for a SONY boycott on his blog - and he does.

So should we now donate to Mr. Hotz so that he continue to boycott SONY? Please.

Re:Get Hotz off his high horse first. (4, Insightful)

timholman (71886) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794624)

No offense - but wasn't it Hotz himself that went into this with a battle cry and asked for donations for his defense and so forth and so on?
If he hadn't done that - if he had "wisely decided" to immediately go for a settlement, people might have still called him a pussy (as that's what some people do) - but at least they wouldn't have much reason for calling him out on his behavior.

Sure, when Mr. Hotz got that first cease-and-desist letter, I'm sure he thought: "I gonna beat these assholes! My fellow hackers will rally to help me!" Maybe he reads Slashdot - no doubt he could have picked up lots of bogus bravado from this crowd.

And then he had one of those "growing up" epiphanies that most 20- and 21-year-olds go through, where you realize that empty words of support mean nothing, and that while many will cheer you on as you march into the lion's den, damn few will stand by you against the lions.

As for the donations, I doubt that Geohot collected enough money to pay for a week of a good lawyer's time, much less enough to fight a real court battle. If his attorney worked pro bono, maybe he'll have something left to give to the EFF - but frankly, I wouldn't count on it.

Geohot learned a hard lesson about the real world, and wisely opted not to ruin his own life just to make a lot of strangers happy. I don't fault him one bit.

Re:Get off your high horses (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794462)

Exactly what kind of living hell are we talking about ? This is the part I don't understand... it's a civil suit, so all they can do is win a judgment worth $X, which he likely does not have, so he would go bankrupt. End of story. The injunction still applies either way, so nothing is really lost except a few trivial belongings. He's barely out of diapers for fuck's sake, not like he's losing a house and child support...

If he had taken the chance to fight, and lost everything, I certainly would not mind helping him get back on his feet. I can't speak for the other donators, but one would hope that if he had stuck his neck out for us, we'd return the favour.

In any case, the point is moot. He got cold feet, took their deal and called it quits. The bright side is his ego disorder might get knocked down a few notches, which can only do him good in the long term.

The learning moment from this whole episode is... (1)

Yaa 101 (664725) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794242)

That in the future these kinds of security breaches will be placed anonymous on all downloading platforms if Sony is lucky, otherwise they end up on botnet auction sites and in that case Sony is really fucked up.

But then, most management is rather right than smart. (big egos et al.)

Title is wrong (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794264)

Title should be: "Script Kiddies Blast Actual Hacker Geohot For Sony Settlement".

this is not a freebee for sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794342)

i dont feel sony won anything here , it's reputation is tarnished for ever for suying a customer for modding his property , personaly sony just joined a long list of companies i will not have anything to do with , both as a customer and as a skilled professional , i would follow Kush on this and tell then to put their job where the sun dont shine , and i'm sure we are a few , sony will ultimatly pay with higher cost of human ressources

Here's your big chance Slashdotters! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794346)

I keep seeing all of these heavy handed posts about doing the right thing, the MAFIAA and Imaginary Property... now's the time to man up and show us how you're going to go in front of a judge and tell them that you think these kinds of things are stifling innovation and that alone makes it right and lawful. I just dare one of you to try to pull one of the crazy antics you keep talking about here. I want to see you beat your chest and roar at the corporate world in a forum befitting your boasts. Just once, please, just once.
 
Oh, that's right, you guys have no intentions on ever doing this but rather standing behind the ranks and moaning on about how unfair it is that you still have to pay for Dark Side Of The Moon and (by gosh sake!) that is destroying our society... .yeah yeah yeah.

(And yes, I know this situation has nothing to do with Dark Side Of The Moon but it's still the same talking heads who drone on about the same crap. It has gotten old and none of those who claim that they'd love to have their day in court to bring the whole system down have the sack to do more than hope they don't get a C&D from Comcast or their mommies and daddies will shut off their internets.)

He who fights and runs away. (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794656)

Nothing was settled here. There is no precedent.

For the content companies, this is a battle to retain control over the things they sell. For the hackers, it is a battle to be able to freely use the things they have purchased. Tension is inevitable. There will be other battles, on other days.

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